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Not-So-Distant Past - Canadian Airliners  
User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5948 posts, RR: 6
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2106 times:
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I just visited Vancouver's airliners show at the Oakridge Mall during Canada's Thanksgiving Holiday weekend. I have some questions regarding some the past Canadian airlines.

1. Restricted to SFO and LAX, why didn't Air Canada and CPAir/Canadian compete on some routes like SFO/LAX-YVR (predominately CPAir/Canadian), SFO/LAX-YYC (Air Canada) and SFO/LAX-YYZ (Air Canada)?

2. Why didn't Pacific Western have more scheduled service to the US like SFO and LAX?

3. I know there was a lot of Canadian charter carriers back in 1980's/1990's. The airlines I was most familiar with were Wardair, Worldways Canada, Odyssey Airways, Canada 3000, Intair, Holiday Airlines. My question is...did any of these carriers have a limited number of scheduled service?

3 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5132 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2041 times:

1. Until full open skies between Canada and the US, only one Canadian carrier was designated on a route. And in those days, routes were decided on, and awarded, on a city pair by city pair basis! And ... AC being the government airline, it always got the lion's share of trans-border awards. Among others, CP was awarded YVR-LAX/SFO, and AC-YYC/YEG-LAX/SFO, and AC YYZ/YUL-LAX/SFO.

No, it wasn't fair.

2. PW only flew what it was awarded. They requested a lot, as did CP, and usually got nothing! PW did fly YVR/YYJ-SEA.

Open skies between Canada and the US changed the whole landscape, on both sides of the border.

3. As business developed, scheduled service started. Domestically, only after deregulation in Canada, as charter airlines were severely restricted. Trans-border after US deregulation. Internationally has not changed much, as a lot of international flying is still awarded to specific airlines.

This is a rough overview, it was actually a lot more involved ... and great to watch!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1527 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 1):
1. Until full open skies between Canada and the US, only one Canadian carrier was designated on a route. And in those days, routes were decided on, and awarded, on a city pair by city pair basis! And ... AC being the government airline, it always got the lion's share of trans-border awards. Among others, CP was awarded YVR-LAX/SFO, and AC-YYC/YEG-LAX/SFO, and AC YUL-LAX/SFO.

As mentioned, in those days long before Open Skies, airlines could only operate where the governments had negotiated traffic rights, and after negotiating the rights, iit was up to each government to decide which of their airlines would be awarded the routes.

For example, in 1966 the Canadian and U.S. governments agreed to about 15 new transborder routes for operations beginning in 1967. Then government-owned AC was assigned every route except YVR-SFO which went to CP, and if memory correct, YUL-based regional carrier Nordair got rights on a couple of shorthaul routes like Toronto-Pittsburgh. CP started service on the YVR-SFO route in January 1967. As part of the same route awards, Western Airlines obtained rights on YVR-SFO and YVR-LAX (also YVR-PDX provided the flight continued to either SFO or LAX). CP didn't get rights on YVR-LAX for another 7 years (1974 if memory correct) so for those 7 years only a U.S. carrier was permitted to operate YVR-LAX nonstop.

Another example from those days is that UA was the only carrier permitted to operate YVR-SEA nonstop for decades. AC could only do it on a 1-stop basis via Victoria (YYJ). Pacific Western obtained YVR-SEA nonstop rights sometime in the mid-1970s and AC dropped the YYJ-SEA sector about the same time when they retired their Viscounts.

[Edited 2012-10-09 15:14:55]

[Edited 2012-10-09 15:16:21]

User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1299 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2):
YUL-based regional carrier Nordair got rights on a couple of shorthaul routes like Toronto-Pittsburgh

That was YHM (Hamilton) - PIT, which ND flew with the 732 (hard to believe there was demand for such a route). ND later operated YYZ-PIT (downgrading to the FH-227 briefly in the mid-80's). Canadian (CP) inherited the route and flew the 732 briefly until the route was dropped.

US Airways (and its predecessors) did not have YYZ-PIT nonstop authority in the 70's/80's and since PIT was a US hub, US YYZ-PIT flights stopped at Erie, BUF, ROC etc en route. When US achieved YYZ-PIT nonstop authority, they initially put the 752 on the route, eventually downgrading continually to the DH1 as the PIT hub diminished.

Today, AC operates the DH1 on YYZ-PIT.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
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