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AI To Ask LH For Help In Joining Star Alliance  
User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 602 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11968 times:

Something came across the wire this morning that was very short, but very interesting:

Quote:
Oct 9 (Reuters) - India plans to ask Germany's Lufthansa AG to help Air India join Star Alliance, aviation minister Ajit Singh said on Tuesday, as it renews its push to become a member of the airlines network after failing to do so last year.

Both Air India and market leader Jet Airways can become members of Star Alliance at the same time, he added.



Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...staralliance-idUSI8E8IV02M20121009

Hmmm ...

[Edited 2012-10-09 03:21:39]


Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
87 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTeamInTheSky From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11940 times:

Is it just me, or does that sound wildly anit-competitive to have both carriers in Star. Obviously the Chinese have multiple carriers in the same alliance, but competition is limited by route structure so there isn't a terribly large amount of overlap. In the US, it definitely seems that we are headed towards three large legacies in each of the alliances.


Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6
User currently onlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1708 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11880 times:

round and round we go again with this, hasn't Star already said NO! so by getting LH on the hand won't change Star's mind? might they have been kicked back by the other two OW/ST!?


CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11809 times:

Oh, for Pete's sake! What if LH doesn't oblige, will they be forced to cut services to India?   


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9437 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11797 times:

No, they will just have to cut back to A320 service with double stops en-route.  

If AI had done it's homework and if the Indian Givernment did not wrap that carrier in red tape, the'd be a member now.

Own fault, I'd say and LH should keep Jet in the Star family.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently onlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3237 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11608 times:

I think this takes care of any reservations *A had - now the GoI is ready to let both AI and 9W join together. Given the dynamics and changes in the region (around EY/ QR/ EK), I think it would be really foolish of *A/LH to let go of this opportunity to let both 9W and AI in.


Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11093 times:

I'm inclined to agree with Nimish... With OW surrounding India and *A needs to take as much as they can of the Indian market...

[Edited 2012-10-09 07:26:46]


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User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13154 posts, RR: 100
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10973 times:
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What is in it for LH? Seriously. For initially sponsoring AI they have had costs but no benefit. AI is not the airline

Quoting AA94 (Thread starter):
Both Air India and market leader Jet Airways can become members of Star Alliance at the same time, he added.

I doubt that. The GoI was very specific at one airline per alliance. *A should have 9W join first if they offer both. But after all the hassle AI made *A go through... why offer again?

Quoting aloges (Reply 3):
What if LH doesn't oblige, will they be forced to cut services to India?

   If the GoI wants to take on the country funding most of Europe... sure...

But that appears what the GoI wants to do:
"Ministry officials say that bilateral conditions specify that only the official airline of a country with which such an agreement has been signed should be flying into India. Since Swiss is not the national airline of Switzerland, permissions could be withdrawn."
http://www.firstpost.com/business/go...ai-star-alliance-issue-484750.html

Does India really want their bilateral rights with Europe scrutinized at this economic juncture? They are threatening a trade war. Do the people of India really want that?

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 6):
With OW surrounding India and *A needs to take as much as they can of the Indian market...

9W would be sufficient. AI will always be stuck in GoI red-tape. Best for *A to avoid that.

I know of not one regular traveler to India who likes AI. I know several who use 9W.

AI had their window to join the alliance. They should not be given another 3 years to try again. It is time to move on. If *A takes in AI, they will have the GoI interfering with their operation forever.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9437 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10974 times:

OK, I agree with the arguments you show.

Teaming up with * Alliance can indeed be ebenficial to all concerned, certainly for LH. MUC and FRA would be perfectly located as hubs for Indian / North and south America traffic
.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinenicode From France, joined May 2012, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10406 times:

You are always speaking of Star Alliance and OneWorld.

There is also SkyTeam...


User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10040 times:

Quoting nicode (Reply 9):
There is also SkyTeam...

Apparently not on the wishlist. It seems like AI is such a beneficial player to any alliance that they can freely choose which alliance they want to join, as all cry out for such an important carrier  
Quote:
Since Swiss is not the national airline of Switzerland, permissions could be withdrawn."

I must have missed out on something. Which country is Swiss the national airline of then?


I feel inclined to rage all over the place when I hear of companies making business with such shady governments. Stating facts is one thing to convince somebody of his own interests, but making up random noise to force somebody into a position that they don't need to be in is a shameless move.

LH is in a really tricky situation now. If they make a step towards AI they will have hard times with their alliance affiliates as most of them oppose the inquiry of this airline in *A. But if LH backs off they might just face a critical situation with Indian traffic, which is an extremely large chunk of the long-haul they send through FRA.
For LHs sake I hope that European authorities and the German Ministry of Transportation has their back on this delicate matter.
For AIs sake I hope that Indian officials get their grip on how a company is run effectively and without a glimpse of corruptive activity.



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlinewarden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10015 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
What is in it for LH? Seriously.

I think aloges and PanHAM have it right...something like "Those are some nice routes into India you have there. Shame if something were to happen to them..."



ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
User currently offlineSQ22 From Germany, joined Feb 2012, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9959 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 6):
I'm inclined to agree with Nimish... With OW surrounding India and *A needs to take as much as they can of the Indian market...

Me too. Maybe they are offering LH or * in general something they cant refuse on top.

Imagine * would be able to offer connections much better (regarding prices, connections ...) to be better than the Gulf carriers. Actually I don't believe this is possible at the moment but its worth a thought.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13154 posts, RR: 100
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9871 times:
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I ask again, what is the positive in this for India? Not the avoided pain, but the positive for AI in *A?

If AI has reformed that much, they should present their case to Skyteam.

Quoting Semaex (Reply 10):
LH is in a really tricky situation now. If they make a step towards AI they will have hard times with their alliance affiliates as most of them oppose the inquiry of this airline in *A. But if LH backs off they might just face a critical situation with Indian traffic, which is an extremely large chunk of the long-haul they send through FRA.

Does India really want a trade war? If LH bows to the GoI, they will have just learned a tactic to keep extracting more.

Quoting warden145 (Reply 11):
"Those are some nice routes into India you have there. Shame if something were to happen to them..."

And what legal means will the GoI use? Will the return to an earlier bilateral impacting Indian Pharma and Chemical industries? India is threatening a trade war; do they really want to do that?

How far back shall the bilaterals be impacted? Shall they push to impact the call centers and IT industries? If they have legal grounds... push forward. But unilateral changes will be met with other unilateral changes which neither side wants.


Quoting SQ22 (Reply 12):
Maybe they are offering LH or * in general something they cant refuse on top.

If that is the case, LH must say no or they will be dancing to the GoI for decades.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineSQ22 From Germany, joined Feb 2012, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9756 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 13):
If that is the case, LH must say no or they will be dancing to the GoI for decades.

Lightsaber

You made a score.  Nevertheless its worth a thought.


User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2800 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9661 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

If the government really wanted them in Star and I was LH I would say "Alright we'll sponsor you, as long as we can get our A380s flights to India." It will be interesting to see if the gov't plays with LH a little bit. They aren't going to want to lose their India routes.
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlineSQ22 From Germany, joined Feb 2012, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9620 times:

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 15):
If the government really wanted them in Star and I was LH I would say "Alright we'll sponsor you, as long as we can get our A380s flights to India." It will be interesting to see if the gov't plays with LH a little bit. They aren't going to want to lose their India routes.
Blue

I would add: And as long as no one else outside of * can make us of A380. But this would be total impossible, but from reading the 787 thread nothing seem to be impossible.


User currently offlinegoacom From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9140 times:

Having AI on board would be a disaster for *A. AI's unreliability and terrible customer service would piss off a lot of passengers who travel with *A. There is no hope for AI, until and unless the GOI divests itself from it and allows management to hire and fire its workers at will without having to be beholden to AI's inefficient and often corrupt public sector unions.

User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2193 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9073 times:

Quoting goacom (Reply 17):

Having AI on board would be a disaster for *A. AI's unreliability and terrible customer service would piss off a lot of passengers who travel with *A. There is no hope for AI, until and unless the GOI divests itself from it and allows management to hire and fire its workers at will without having to be beholden to AI's inefficient and often corrupt public sector unions.

AMEN!

Air India is a third-rate airline. Lufthansa shouldn't even waste its time with this embarrassing situation.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 43
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9072 times:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 10):
For LHs sake I hope that European authorities and the German Ministry of Transportation has their back on this delicate matter.

Do you remember the trouble with the Russian overflight rights?  



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8872 times:

I don't know why I even bother responding... This thread epitomizes exactly the kind of unwarranted bashing AI receives every time it is brought up in conversation...


The "I flew AI once 5 years ago but know everything about it" posts:

Quoting goacom (Reply 17):
Having AI on board would be a disaster for *A. AI's unreliability and terrible customer service would piss off a lot of passengers who travel with *A. There is no hope for AI, until and unless the GOI divests itself from it and allows management to hire and fire its workers at will without having to be beholden to AI's inefficient and often corrupt public sector unions.
Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 18):
AMEN!

Air India is a third-rate airline. Lufthansa shouldn't even waste its time with this embarrassing situation.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):

I know of not one regular traveler to India who likes AI. I know several who use 9W.

The "Government-owned carriers are evil" posts:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 10):

I feel inclined to rage all over the place when I hear of companies making business with such shady governments.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 13):
And what legal means will the GoI use? Will the return to an earlier bilateral impacting Indian Pharma and Chemical industries? India is threatening a trade war; do they really want to do that?

How far back shall the bilaterals be impacted? Shall they push to impact the call centers and IT industries? If they have legal grounds... push forward. But unilateral changes will be met with other unilateral changes which neither side wants.

The "AI is completely at fault and LH Group/Star Alliance is totally innocent" posts:

Quoting aloges (Reply 3):
Oh, for Pete's sake! What if LH doesn't oblige, will they be forced to cut services to India?
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
AI had their window to join the alliance. They should not be given another 3 years to try again. It is time to move on. If *A takes in AI, they will have the GoI interfering with their operation forever.
Quoting aloges (Reply 19):
Do you remember the trouble with the Russian overflight rights?

We went through all of this already on the last thread about AI/*A... AI screwed up, LH took advantage of relaxed bilaterals, there is no trade war coming, AI's reliability is far superior to many *A airlines, etc. etc.

I thought Devesh and I had made it clear enough already? Do we really need to rehash it again?



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinemanny From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8776 times:

If AI had a semi-competent management they would have made every alliance bend over for their entry into their alliance.

User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8764 times:

Quoting manny (Reply 21):
If AI had a semi-competent management they would have made every alliance bend over for their entry into their alliance.

We went over this as well. Air India doesn't have any management. Well, I mean, there is management, but they have no control over the carrier so its as good as not being there.

The corrupt government officials at MoCA have ensured control of even the most minute details so that every rupee can be squeezed out of the carrier.

[Edited 2012-10-09 14:32:25]


Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 43
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8764 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 20):
the kind of unwarranted bashing AI receives every time it is brought up in conversation

Unwarranted bashing... not exactly. I've been following this saga for years, as have many others. It is not bashing, it is stating the obvious.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8635 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 23):
Unwarranted bashing... not exactly. I've been following this saga for years, as have many others. It is not bashing, it is stating the obvious.

I've been following this for years as well...

Please understand that this "obvious" you speak of is not so obvious. There is no such thing as obvious in India. The backstory to this issue is very different than it may seem.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
25 goacom : Aeroblogger sounds like a paid shill for AI or is a public union employee. Besides being strangely fanatically supportive of AI (he actually rationali
26 goacom : LOL, and you want an international airline alliance to accept an airline whose management has no control over its operations? I think you just answer
27 IrishAyes : Before I continue, let me preface this by saying that I read your blog and am an avid fan, and respect you a lot as a writer. But I wholly disagree w
28 Post contains images aeroblogger : AI is not organized enough to be buying shills. And I am self-employed - no unions for me This sentence contradicts itself. I supported AI getting gr
29 goacom : Sorry, Aeroblogger, I last flew on AI round trip just under 2 years ago and in both instances they gave me and my family terrible service. Of course,
30 Post contains images AA94 : With all due respect, comments like the ones that Minister Singh has made are exactly why AI gets the reputation that it has. *A looks unfavorably on
31 JAL : It seems that Star doesn't want to have AI as a member why does AI keeps whining about joining?
32 aeroblogger : If it benefits the alliance, I don't see why not. LH knew the situation at AI when the invitation was issued... Drop me a PM or an email about the in
33 goacom : With the GOI in charge and with its public union vote bank running it (or running to the bank!), no fundamental change can be expected, no matter how
34 Post contains links and images aeroblogger : I agree completely with you. But LH knew this was the case when they invited AI... I don't know how closely you've followed the AI/*A saga, but let m
35 goacom : No one is expecting perfection, but when problems occur, we expect that the airline will make an effort to ameliorate the situation. That is not the
36 aeroblogger : I agree completely. Ground service is the single largest blot on Air India's service. And sadly, it isn't included in the restructuring plan, because
37 usflyer msp : Having flown AI a few times, I would say that AI is safe and has great inflight service. However, their Achilles Heel is their generally abysmal grou
38 Post contains images aeroblogger : We're on the same page
39 Post contains images JOYA380B747 : Any AI related thread automatically becomes one of the most interesting read in the Forum Also, the thread posts tend to be so uniquely representative
40 goacom : I think we are all on agreement with this. Their in-flight service is usually pretty good. The problem is the before and after part!
41 BLRAviation : If there was a quid pro quo arrangement with the ministry under which they got additional services, then the simple answer is YES. Similarly if LH ow
42 goacom : Not really, the airline business is just a small component of overall trade. Furthermore, Germany has the power of the EU to fall on, if India were so
43 Post contains links BLRAviation : Apologies in advance, and this is meant more in general, not to you, but ......... Oh Puh-lease!!!! No country is going to undertake a trade war over
44 Post contains links and images BLRAviation : but do take down the duplicate posts. But what does surprise me, especially on a "enlightened" forum like A.net, is why does any conversation of AI a
45 lightsaber : Then we will have to agree to disagree. While LH wants access to India, at what cost? What contract? In general the ASA is part of a larger bilateral
46 LAXDESI : I wonder if part of the quid pro quo involved "transfer of a suitcase to PP from LH" that can not be returned if GOI were to take away any of the exi
47 Post contains links sturmovik : http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...onomy/logistics/article3981680.ece Those ducks seems to be lining up..
48 gauravpai : Everytime the word AI comes on the forum people jump to what a bad airline they are. quite the contrary i say. yes they maybe caught in redtape,their
49 Nimish : FYI - the same minister made statements yesterday that he would be amenable to remove the aircraft type limitation entirely. Clearly he's laying out
50 Nimish : So let's go back to the beginning. Given OW's moves in the region, what is *A's plan to maintain a hold on subcontinental traffic? Or are they happy t
51 gauravpai : i meant Lufthansa s not AI! Cheers
52 lightsaber : Now that is negotiation. The prior posts that implied LH had to 'or else' were not the way to go. Now there is a business case to sponsor AI. In part
53 aeroblogger : OZ already has access. South Korea is one of the few bilaterals which does not restrict A380s.
54 goacom : People badmouth AI because it is a THIRD RATE airline that would not exist without government support. Your good meal for the 50min flight was courtes
55 Post contains images aloges : ...and yet I'm the one who's bashing them, and unwarrantedly too. Right. You also complain about and then come up with this gem: So which is it? "Cer
56 aeroblogger : AI is at fault for their issues, but LH is also guilty of a variety of things, which I explained very clearly upthread. Where is Star fighting for AI
57 manny : If its obvious why state it ? When too many people start doing that then it does become unwarranted bashing. And that's what goes on most of the time
58 Burkhard : So, if AI has fulfilled the requirements *A posed on them (more or less) and *A's wish to get 9W aboard too can come true I see this to happen. May m
59 Post contains images gauravpai : Totally uncalled for; you have your opinions i have mine, and what has education or malnutrition got to do with getting the GOI out of AI and making
60 Post contains images gauravpai : have travelled in and can name a few worse but no need to belittle anyone sorrry for being rude but since thats the route you wanna take, given the c
61 brilondon : If AI needs LH's help in joining the *A, what does that really say about AI. That carrier should just be left to die a natural death. If *A accepts A
62 gauravpai : I challenge you sir, willing to bet every cent that AI is never going to die any death natural or otherwise and is here to stay wether people like it
63 lightsaber : Agree AI will survive a long time. But at a very high cost. I believe the GoI has far better uses for those funds (e.g., build airports, roads, and r
64 goacom : Sure you can have your own opinion. This is the internet. People believe in aliens and fairies too, and it is well known that organizations pay other
65 LFutia : A situation like IT would never happen in the US, their certificate would have been pulled a long time ago I'd rather take a US airline than Air Indi
66 JOYA380B747 : The Ideal vision of Indian Aviation that just never will penetrate the skull of a Member of the Parliament.
67 Post contains images gauravpai : Agree 100 percent with you there, absolutely And am not taking GOIs side just stating that the way things run here AI will stay for years to come, no
68 aeroblogger : It is impossible to get into an alliance without a sponsoring member.. I'm not sure what you mean by this statement?
69 Burkhard : And what if in a rare case of clear sight the GOI wants external expertise to improve AI to the standard it should have? How else to get it but in thi
70 aeroblogger : $$$ GoI already wastes plenty on AI - surely they could afford to bring in some external expertise. The only help GoI wants AI to get is for LH to co
71 Post contains images BLRAviation : Gaurav, Lightsaber, Rohit, your comments are based on the assumption that the Govt. of India wants to run AI as an airline when, in reality AI is run
72 aeroblogger : Devesh, I'm fully aware of the system and I've been trying to explain it myself over the last few threads - you took my quote out of context. GoI run
73 Post contains images JOYA380B747 : I recently read somewhere that nearly 200kg of luggage was checked-in on an AI flight by some MPs and fees were not charged for that! Wonder how much
74 Post contains images gauravpai : Agree agree agree!!!
75 Post contains images lightsaber : Netjets would be cheaper. Billions per year cheaper. No. But at some time the corruption must stop. India has far better uses of the funds. Corruptio
76 aeroblogger : This is the part I don't get... What exactly do you mean by "AI is more amenable to following *A rules"???
77 copenhagenboy : I think that many forget that it is not only LH who desides if AI will ever be a partner of *A. If I remember corretcly, all *partners has to vote pos
78 aeroblogger : I don't think it has to be unanimous - just some kind of majority. I remember that TG opposed SQ's entry. And more recently, QF probably opposed QR's
79 lightsaber : The easiest example was the prior 3 1/2 year application process. Getting the computer software changed to *A status. As time goes on, there will be
80 ORDBOSEWR : Unfortunately, we do not know what the rules are for *A and voting. Back when the alliance was small (ie less than 10 carriers) the founding members
81 aeroblogger : The *A "rule" was to get it done by July 2011. AI complied with the rule. I'm still not seeing the point... AI codeshares with 7 *A carriers which I
82 MillwallSean : Thats of course a tale that isnt true. AI believes they complied while the rest of the partners disgaree. Star alliance saus no and the quote from th
83 Post contains images lightsaber : AI didn't meet any of the extensions. Setting the last extension as the benchmark? AI showed contempt for adapting. Part of joining an alliance is ad
84 aeroblogger : The last extension is the benchmark. This is normal. Take, for example, the following conversation: Who seems unreasonable here? Why? It's not a diff
85 lightsaber : We'll have to disagree on this. If someone owes me something by Monday and begs to have it by Thursday and instead promises the following Tuesday...
86 Post contains images aeroblogger : I didn't say that *A has no right to be miffed - they absolutely do. But if you agree to the 8 day late milestone, then you have no right to complain
87 Post contains links lightsaber : But it wasn't agreed to being met. And if letting something slide wasn't in writing, then it wasn't allowed. In real life, we let things slide as it
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