azstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 541 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6310 times:
I remember when Skywest used to be considered one of the best regional carriers. It doesn't appear to be the case any longer, especially for UA flights. I've experienced delay, after delay, after delay, late arriving crew members (recently we waited onboard 20 minutes for the pilot to show up) serious maintenance issues, ad infinitum. Last month my flight was already 30 minutes late, everyone was seated on board, including the captain, and he got off the plane and came back 5 minutes later with a cup of coffee. It seems that very few of the UA operated planes have been painted in the new livery, and most of them are so old you can see every rivet in the fuselage because the paint is so thin. I'm not as familiar with Skywest Delta, but do they hold Skywest to a higher standard than UA, or do they have the same issues there?
flyhossd From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 545 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6258 times:
I've been using SkyWest quite a bit in the last few years and I've noticed a change - and not for the better - too.
From my experiences, two things are happening.
One, the airplanes aren't getting any younger and I've had more maintenance related delays and cancellations recently than in previous years.
Also, there seems to be a real shortage of crews. On a recent flight out of DEN on SkyWest, the Captain arrived about 25 minutes after scheduled departure time and I noticed that everyone was bending over backwards to be nice to him; this made me curious, so after the flight, I had the chance to chat with him. I learned that he had been called in from home (near San Diego, IIRC) and if he hadn't come in for the trip, several fights would have been cancelled.
Was SkyWest affected by UA's problems this summer, too? As far as I could tell, they did better than UA.
I do hope to see some fresh paint on the UAX airplanes soon. Most of the interiors seem old, though in OK shape.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
redzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 276 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6219 times:
All I can say is that I had 2 OO/DL flights last week (BZN-SLC and SLC-BZN), and they were both very positive experiences. Cabin crew on both flights were friendly and enthusiastic. The lone male F/A on the first flight was making lots of tasteful jokes during his announcements and kept everybody laughing. That flight was on a CR2 in SkyWest colors, which was older, but well maintained. In SLC I conneted to a Pinnacle CR9 flight, and had a very different experience. It was a late evening flight with a load low factor and the 2 F/As couldn't have been less interested. The CR7 on the second flight was spotless--appeared to be very new, although I wasn't able to get the registration to confirm that. Both flights departed on time and arrived early. I have 4 more OO segments coming up in the next 2 weeks (1 CR2 and 3 CR7s), and I'm looking forward to it.
durangomac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 586 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5860 times:
OO has been really effected by UA's issues. On top of that there have been a lot of issues in SFO causing many delayed flights.
chrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1772 posts, RR: 4 Reply 4, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5830 times:
I've had nothing but positive experiences with Skywest crews on the DL Connection flights. Most are friendly, polite and enjoy their jobs. Some have been truly exceptional.
Their planes are clean, well maintained and while there have been some delays for late arriving crew members--maybe 3-4 in my 25 flights with them this year--nothing major sticks out in my mind.
slcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2456 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5727 times:
Skywest has been a huge key to Deltas consistant profits at SLC. I find it to still be a very well run operation from SLC still and employees do seem happy for the airline industry.
I do worry a little bit that they tried to grow too big and its harder to manage as well. When all flights were based or flew out of the Western US I think it was easier to keep track of and manage. Skywest was known for over managing and making really good well thought out decisions. I hope they can keep it but its clearly harder with so many flights and them being so far away. I wish they had stayed the same size they were so consistant and reliable. I still think the people in St George still really do care and put in just as much effort its just so much harder and more complex now. I would like to see a leaner and more western based skywest with larger planes aka the Mitsubishis in the future when they retire the CR2s. The St George location is great its a fanatastic place to live i just hope they can keep it which i think the new airport is really about making it possible for skywest to stay there.
HPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3664 posts, RR: 8 Reply 6, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5682 times:
So anecdotally at least it seems things are very different between the Skywest ops for DL and UA.
Regardless of the issues with UA, I would not think that would affect crew availability on Skywest metal since Skywest is its own company. Are flight crews bolting from OO for some reason? I have not heard anything on this topic.
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5445 posts, RR: 12 Reply 7, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5614 times:
The planes are lined up to go to paint, but there's a lot of them, and
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 6): Are flight crews bolting from OO for some reason? I have not heard anything on this topic.
There is, and always will be attrition, yes, due to major hiring, but bolting? No, not really. And the DL CRJ swap is helping mitigate that somewhat.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
dinker225 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1049 posts, RR: 20 Reply 8, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5517 times:
Are OO crews assigned to work for one partner only? Example an OO pilot on the UA side will not fly a DL flight? Same with the FA's? I thought they rotated through. So this wouldn't make any sense for crews being grumpy on one side and not on the other. Unless the trips are worse on UA and go junior?
Two rules in aviation, don't hit anything and don't run out of gas, cause if you run out of gas yer gonna hit something.
durangomac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 586 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5378 times:
Quoting dinker225 (Reply 8): Are OO crews assigned to work for one partner only? Example an OO pilot on the UA side will not fly a DL flight? Same with the FA's? I thought they rotated through. So this wouldn't make any sense for crews being grumpy on one side and not on the other. Unless the trips are worse on UA and go junior?
Depending on which domicile they are assigned they will work more of one partner over others but generally the crews can work for any parnter. LAX is a larger UA domcile but the crews there will work UA, DL and soon AA flights.
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5445 posts, RR: 12 Reply 10, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5330 times:
Quoting dinker225 (Reply 8): Are OO crews assigned to work for one partner only?
They will bid to fly out of a crew base, where the crews will generally stick with one carrier, but someone on reserve, or someone trying to pick up a few days could be pulled to fly whatever's open out of that particular base. With the Brasilias, the crews will occasionally flow between partners.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
KaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12027 posts, RR: 43 Reply 11, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5186 times:
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 10): They will bid to fly out of a crew base, where the crews will generally stick with one carrier, but someone on reserve, or someone trying to pick up a few days could be pulled to fly whatever's open out of that particular base. With the Brasilias, the crews will occasionally flow between partners.
When I was working for DL in BIS, we would have a lot of crews bring in a DL inbound at night and take UA out in the morning or vice versa. Every now and then they would do it during the daytime also, but not very often.
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5445 posts, RR: 12 Reply 12, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5167 times:
Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 11): When I was working for DL in BIS, we would have a lot of crews bring in a DL inbound at night and take UA out in the morning or vice versa.
Aye. They try not to do that during the same day. It gets confusing. Exceptions do sometimes happen, though!
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9197 posts, RR: 14 Reply 13, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5097 times:
Quoting durangomac (Reply 9): Depending on which domicile they are assigned they will work more of one partner over others but generally the crews can work for any parnter. LAX is a larger UA domcile but the crews there will work UA, DL and soon AA flights.
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 12): Aye. They try not to do that during the same day. It gets confusing. Exceptions do sometimes happen, though!
My daughter is an F/A for OO and told me that she had problems when she first started, with making sure she read the correct safety announcement........I told her to just stick her head out the door and check out the livery....whether it was DL or UA.
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 6): Regardless of the issues with UA, I would not think that would affect crew availability on Skywest metal since Skywest is its own company. Are flight crews bolting from OO for some reason? I have not heard anything on this topic.
My daughter told me recently that they've taken the F/A reserves from SLC and used them to staff the ORD domicile. In turn, they are short of crews at SLC which means that the SLC F/As are less able to trade trips or take time off, so there's more calling in sick. Since there's more sick time being used, the company is playing hardball and recently, they made the part time F/As fly a full time schedule, for a month. Now, they've decided to not hire anymore part time F/As. They'll let attrition take care of any part timers or they can move up to full time.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
ual777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1478 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4839 times:
It's not a matter of OO getting too big. It's a matter of the major partners crushing the profit margins for the regionals. Pinnacle-bankrupt. Comair-gone. Republic-in trouble. Mesa-bankrupt. There are rumors of GoJet/TSA being in trouble too. Skywest and ExpressJet are operating on RAZOR thin margins that were previously comfortable. This means less crews, less spare parts, etc. In the summer at ExpressJet the aircraft are being run so hard that you can have a scheduled 30 min turn at ORD arriving at F12, and then aircraft swap to an aircraft at C31. It's physically impossible to do it on-time.
OO has great management, but they can only do so much. The majors have squeezed the regionals to the max, and it shows.
durangomac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 586 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4615 times:
Quoting mayor (Reply 15): You might want to ask the flight crews about that.
I'm not going to completely defend management but flight crews are sometimes really their own worst enemy. I can tell you that the management at OO really do care about the employees and sometimes I wish the crews would not take shots at management when the issue has more to do with things even management can't control. Could management be more transparent, absolutely.
mcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1278 posts, RR: 17 Reply 17, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4009 times:
Quoting durangomac (Reply 3): OO has been really effected by UA's issues.
Very interesting that when some type of success metric is announced at Skywest there is an endless blather of how wonderful they are, how they are going to buy 737's, A320's or some other narrowbody. Start up their own stand alone airline and overtake the world. However, at the hint of some poor service/performance the Skywest crowd is more than happy to blame their "partner".
Quoting mayor (Reply 13): My daughter told me recently that they've taken the F/A reserves from SLC and used them to staff the ORD domicile. In turn, they are short of crews at SLC which means that the SLC F/As are less able to trade trips or take time off, so there's more calling in sick.
Please don't tell the poster that was quoted above these facts. It is all UA's fault that Skywest has poor performance and tattered planes. It couldn't possibly be any type of managerial issue at OO
Quoting ual777 (Reply 14): It's not a matter of OO getting too big. It's a matter of the major partners crushing the profit margins for the regionals.
Too bad if the terms squeeze airlines like OO. It is supply and demand. Way more feed available than needed and OO was not very bright for putting their eggs in the 50 seat basket. Those are the hazards of living by providing out sourced services in any industry. You can and will be replaced at the whim of the supplier.
The problem with OO and the other 50 seat carriers is that the CRJ/ERJ has NEVER had good economics. The major carriers were willing to eat the loss to use the airplanes as weapons against legacy labor. Now that the majors have consolidated and have played the RJ wages against their own employees the need for the RJ is less and less. Passengers don't like the bait and switch method of express flying, they don't like the crowded tiny airplanes, poor service and delays. The legacy carriers are adjusting and with DL's new scope it looks like the trend wil be to reduce the amount of out sourced flying. Overall the carriers like OO and OH were pawns in a game. Many of the employees of these carriers unfortunately thought they were running the board as Kings when in effect they were only pawns.
B727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 548 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3076 times:
I've noticed a change in OO as well. GENERALLY I find the UA side at ANY UX carrier to be slighted and a "rougher" experience for skeds, crews, ground handling, product on board, etc. DL GENERALLY is a better code-share on all sides and GENERALLY works better with the partners.
When I was on furlough I flew for a company that did both and it was night and day.
Regarding OO crews, I've always seen them to have some of the highest standards--but that's seemed to slip a little. The FA on my commute the other day could not have been more bored and disinterested. But hey, there are bored and disinterested people everywhere.
I still have more reliable and consistent service and OT flights with OO than 9E.
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
durangomac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 586 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (7 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3008 times:
Quoting mcdu (Reply 17): Very interesting that when some type of success metric is announced at Skywest there is an endless blather of how wonderful they are, how they are going to buy 737's, A320's or some other narrowbody. Start up their own stand alone airline and overtake the world. However, at the hint of some poor service/performance the Skywest crowd is more than happy to blame their "partner".
The issue has to do more with the requirement that OO has to follow UA's rules. UA has a had a very rough summer and I doubt anyone is going to argue differently. The trickle down here is many of OO's flights are being delayed because of issues with the PSS switchover and some new rules for flow during turns. Most majors partners mandate policies on how their regional carriers operate flights from on-board products to announcements and even how passengers are supposed to be treated. OO has always tried to do everything better than what the major partner wants.
I can tell you from first hand experience that OO is working very closely with UA on bringing up the quality of the product and UA has admitted that they are having to push initiatives on their side to help all express carriers because they (UA) have dropped the ball. UA is stepping up to the plate and trying to make things better.
azstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 541 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (7 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2985 times:
Quoting durangomac (Reply 19): I can tell you from first hand experience that OO is working very closely with UA on bringing up the quality of the product and UA has admitted that they are having to push initiatives on their side to help all express carriers because they (UA) have dropped the ball. UA is stepping up to the plate and trying to make things better.
That's good to hear. I was getting the impression that OO was running the show, with very little participation from UA.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21244 posts, RR: 19 Reply 21, posted (7 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2967 times:
Quoting mcdu (Reply 17): It is all UA's fault that Skywest has poor performance and tattered planes. It couldn't possibly be any type of managerial issue at OO
I cannot explain it, but even though my sample size is a lot bigger on DL (though my home base has OO overnight m/x, it's all for DL aircraft and our UA station is mostly Embraer), my OO/DL recent experiences have been as good as ever. I cannot remember my last OO experience that was negative, with the exception of the early BNACVG being delayed often for crew rest.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
I can give you one perspective from SFO and the OO operation. There were some horrific gate issue's in San Francisco till the T-1 operation opened. And despite the rants on the change, this T-1 operation has been incredibly successful and a very smart move on United's part.
The fact was that UA made the decision to open new routes and had new flights into SFO, but was really cutting things thin on gate capacity. OO was operations 109 daily flights in early 2009 and is currently running around 145 daily now. When they hit 145 daily, they were operationing with 11 gates in which 3 were EMB only and 2 were RJ only really restricting things. Also, as stated above, with an older fleet ex. EMB, you could affect multiple flights by one mechanical delay. This has been relieved with the new terminal operations. As for other OO issue's, I'll keep those to myself.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
A pilot showing up 20 minutes late may seem insigificant, but it can mean the difference between making a connection or not making it, and the possibility of waiting hours or even days in a connecting city to get to your destination. And, it's one thing for a pilot to be late if he's coming off a delayed inbound flight, and another thing to be late to the first flight of the day when he lives in the city he's flying from. The marvel of flight notwithstanding.
25 Cubsrule: That's the risk we take when we book connections of that length.
26 azstar: Forgive me for being so naive, but if the delay is mechanical, or ATC, or weather I accept the risk. I don't believe that a pilot showing up late for
27 Cubsrule: If you misconnect, what difference does the cause make? And are you suggesting that I should not worry about delays due to crew rest on originators,
28 azstar: [quote=Cubsrule,reply=27]If you misconnect, what difference does the cause make? And are you suggesting that I should not worry about delays due to cr
29 Cubsrule: Perhaps I have. Why don't you explain it?
30 NW747-400: Pilots are humans. They are going to get caught in traffic, get stuck on trains that break down, have to change flat tires, oversleep, get stuck at a
31 neveragain: From reading FlyerTalk threads from time to time, I can take a guess. Tell me azstar, how many times have you spent days in a connecting city waiting
32 RDH3E: You need to define your timeframe. Here are their DOT figures: 2010; 2011; and YTD-2012 Departure Completion % 98.01% 97.84% 98.19% Departure 00% of S
33 Caspian27: Just a few thoughts... If a pilot got up to get coffee it's probably because they knew they weren't going to push for a bit. They were probably still
34 AZNCSA4QF744ER: Lets not all rush to blame UA and its SHARES system for reasons. I do agree it does have an affect but to a certain degree. Don't forget many of the o
35 dlramp4life: I thought DGS took over alot of the former OO ground handling contracts along with Regional Elite stations....
36 chrisair: In this situation (I'm going to assume you're based in ATL), do you call in to crew scheduling and tell them? Would they pull a reserve and send them
37 mcdu: Don't want to speak for him, but I believe I understand what he is trying to say. Seems to be lost on the "so you missed your connection, big deal gr
39 Cubsrule: Not "no big deal." I hate missing them. Missing connections is inevitable if you fly enough. Stuff happens. And sometimes, it's entirely within the c
40 neveragain: First of all, we have no idea if the delays the OP is citing were within the airline's control or not. It is his perception that they were, but other
41 azstar: I was not referring to all Express carriers in my post. I was referring to Skywest. And, I am not aware of their performance, good, mediocre, or bad
42 neveragain: And you decide to title the post "What Happened To Skywest? Poor Performance"? That is bizarre. Since it sounds like you fly a lot, probably the best
43 mcdu: The Regionals tend to schedule their crews with little if any pad for operational issues. That is why you see so many delays for crews on the RJ side
44 Cubsrule: Please tell us specifically how OO as a company "gives the minimum" and "blames others when it doesn't perform."
45 neveragain: I certainly haven't seen that in my experiences. For the most part, it's very hard for me to tell the difference in operational performance or custom
47 Mir: And that wouldn't have anything at all to do with the mainline carriers playing them off against one another in an effort to find the lowest bidder,
48 crj900lr: Hmm where have I heard this before only not at Skywest??
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