Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
What Happened To Skywest? Poor Performance  
User currently offlineazstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 631 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7769 times:

I remember when Skywest used to be considered one of the best regional carriers. It doesn't appear to be the case any longer, especially for UA flights. I've experienced delay, after delay, after delay, late arriving crew members (recently we waited onboard 20 minutes for the pilot to show up) serious maintenance issues, ad infinitum. Last month my flight was already 30 minutes late, everyone was seated on board, including the captain, and he got off the plane and came back 5 minutes later with a cup of coffee. It seems that very few of the UA operated planes have been painted in the new livery, and most of them are so old you can see every rivet in the fuselage because the paint is so thin. I'm not as familiar with Skywest Delta, but do they hold Skywest to a higher standard than UA, or do they have the same issues there?

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineflyhossd From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 981 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7717 times:

I've been using SkyWest quite a bit in the last few years and I've noticed a change - and not for the better - too.

From my experiences, two things are happening.

One, the airplanes aren't getting any younger and I've had more maintenance related delays and cancellations recently than in previous years.

Also, there seems to be a real shortage of crews. On a recent flight out of DEN on SkyWest, the Captain arrived about 25 minutes after scheduled departure time and I noticed that everyone was bending over backwards to be nice to him; this made me curious, so after the flight, I had the chance to chat with him. I learned that he had been called in from home (near San Diego, IIRC) and if he hadn't come in for the trip, several fights would have been cancelled.

Was SkyWest affected by UA's problems this summer, too? As far as I could tell, they did better than UA.

I do hope to see some fresh paint on the UAX airplanes soon. Most of the interiors seem old, though in OK shape.



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7678 times:

All I can say is that I had 2 OO/DL flights last week (BZN-SLC and SLC-BZN), and they were both very positive experiences. Cabin crew on both flights were friendly and enthusiastic. The lone male F/A on the first flight was making lots of tasteful jokes during his announcements and kept everybody laughing. That flight was on a CR2 in SkyWest colors, which was older, but well maintained. In SLC I conneted to a Pinnacle CR9 flight, and had a very different experience. It was a late evening flight with a load low factor and the 2 F/As couldn't have been less interested. The CR7 on the second flight was spotless--appeared to be very new, although I wasn't able to get the registration to confirm that. Both flights departed on time and arrived early. I have 4 more OO segments coming up in the next 2 weeks (1 CR2 and 3 CR7s), and I'm looking forward to it.


Flown: DL,OS,NZ,UN,VV,NW,AA,UA,HP,TZ,AS,AF,KL,SK,WS,AZ,OK; op by OO,MQ,XJ,9E,G7,EV,QX,RP
User currently offlinedurangomac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 743 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7319 times:

OO has been really effected by UA's issues. On top of that there have been a lot of issues in SFO causing many delayed flights.

User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2185 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7289 times:

I've had nothing but positive experiences with Skywest crews on the DL Connection flights. Most are friendly, polite and enjoy their jobs. Some have been truly exceptional.

Their planes are clean, well maintained and while there have been some delays for late arriving crew members--maybe 3-4 in my 25 flights with them this year--nothing major sticks out in my mind.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3640 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7186 times:

Skywest has been a huge key to Deltas consistant profits at SLC. I find it to still be a very well run operation from SLC still and employees do seem happy for the airline industry.

I do worry a little bit that they tried to grow too big and its harder to manage as well. When all flights were based or flew out of the Western US I think it was easier to keep track of and manage. Skywest was known for over managing and making really good well thought out decisions. I hope they can keep it but its clearly harder with so many flights and them being so far away. I wish they had stayed the same size they were so consistant and reliable. I still think the people in St George still really do care and put in just as much effort its just so much harder and more complex now. I would like to see a leaner and more western based skywest with larger planes aka the Mitsubishis in the future when they retire the CR2s. The St George location is great its a fanatastic place to live i just hope they can keep it which i think the new airport is really about making it possible for skywest to stay there.


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4152 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7141 times:

So anecdotally at least it seems things are very different between the Skywest ops for DL and UA.

Regardless of the issues with UA, I would not think that would affect crew availability on Skywest metal since Skywest is its own company. Are flight crews bolting from OO for some reason? I have not heard anything on this topic.


User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6120 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7073 times:

The planes are lined up to go to paint, but there's a lot of them, and

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 6):
Are flight crews bolting from OO for some reason? I have not heard anything on this topic.

There is, and always will be attrition, yes, due to major hiring, but bolting? No, not really. And the DL CRJ swap is helping mitigate that somewhat.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlinedinker225 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1068 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6976 times:

Are OO crews assigned to work for one partner only? Example an OO pilot on the UA side will not fly a DL flight? Same with the FA's? I thought they rotated through. So this wouldn't make any sense for crews being grumpy on one side and not on the other. Unless the trips are worse on UA and go junior?


Two rules in aviation, don't hit anything and don't run out of gas, cause if you run out of gas yer gonna hit something.
User currently offlinedurangomac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 743 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6837 times:

Quoting dinker225 (Reply 8):
Are OO crews assigned to work for one partner only? Example an OO pilot on the UA side will not fly a DL flight? Same with the FA's? I thought they rotated through. So this wouldn't make any sense for crews being grumpy on one side and not on the other. Unless the trips are worse on UA and go junior?

Depending on which domicile they are assigned they will work more of one partner over others but generally the crews can work for any parnter. LAX is a larger UA domcile but the crews there will work UA, DL and soon AA flights.


User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6120 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6789 times:

Quoting dinker225 (Reply 8):
Are OO crews assigned to work for one partner only?

They will bid to fly out of a crew base, where the crews will generally stick with one carrier, but someone on reserve, or someone trying to pick up a few days could be pulled to fly whatever's open out of that particular base. With the Brasilias, the crews will occasionally flow between partners.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12285 posts, RR: 35
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6645 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 10):
They will bid to fly out of a crew base, where the crews will generally stick with one carrier, but someone on reserve, or someone trying to pick up a few days could be pulled to fly whatever's open out of that particular base. With the Brasilias, the crews will occasionally flow between partners.

When I was working for DL in BIS, we would have a lot of crews bring in a DL inbound at night and take UA out in the morning or vice versa. Every now and then they would do it during the daytime also, but not very often.



“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6120 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6626 times:

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 11):
When I was working for DL in BIS, we would have a lot of crews bring in a DL inbound at night and take UA out in the morning or vice versa.

Aye. They try not to do that during the same day. It gets confusing. Exceptions do sometimes happen, though!



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10670 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6556 times:

Quoting durangomac (Reply 9):
Depending on which domicile they are assigned they will work more of one partner over others but generally the crews can work for any parnter. LAX is a larger UA domcile but the crews there will work UA, DL and soon AA flights.
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 12):
Aye. They try not to do that during the same day. It gets confusing. Exceptions do sometimes happen, though!

My daughter is an F/A for OO and told me that she had problems when she first started, with making sure she read the correct safety announcement........I told her to just stick her head out the door and check out the livery....whether it was DL or UA.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 6):
Regardless of the issues with UA, I would not think that would affect crew availability on Skywest metal since Skywest is its own company. Are flight crews bolting from OO for some reason? I have not heard anything on this topic.

My daughter told me recently that they've taken the F/A reserves from SLC and used them to staff the ORD domicile. In turn, they are short of crews at SLC which means that the SLC F/As are less able to trade trips or take time off, so there's more calling in sick. Since there's more sick time being used, the company is playing hardball and recently, they made the part time F/As fly a full time schedule, for a month. Now, they've decided to not hire anymore part time F/As. They'll let attrition take care of any part timers or they can move up to full time.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineual777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1564 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6298 times:

It's not a matter of OO getting too big. It's a matter of the major partners crushing the profit margins for the regionals. Pinnacle-bankrupt. Comair-gone. Republic-in trouble. Mesa-bankrupt. There are rumors of GoJet/TSA being in trouble too. Skywest and ExpressJet are operating on RAZOR thin margins that were previously comfortable. This means less crews, less spare parts, etc. In the summer at ExpressJet the aircraft are being run so hard that you can have a scheduled 30 min turn at ORD arriving at F12, and then aircraft swap to an aircraft at C31. It's physically impossible to do it on-time.

OO has great management, but they can only do so much. The majors have squeezed the regionals to the max, and it shows.



It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10670 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6236 times:

Quoting ual777 (Reply 14):
OO has great management,

You might want to ask the flight crews about that.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinedurangomac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 743 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6074 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 15):
You might want to ask the flight crews about that.

I'm not going to completely defend management but flight crews are sometimes really their own worst enemy. I can tell you that the management at OO really do care about the employees and sometimes I wish the crews would not take shots at management when the issue has more to do with things even management can't control. Could management be more transparent, absolutely.


User currently onlinemcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1487 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5468 times:

Quoting durangomac (Reply 3):
OO has been really effected by UA's issues.

Very interesting that when some type of success metric is announced at Skywest there is an endless blather of how wonderful they are, how they are going to buy 737's, A320's or some other narrowbody. Start up their own stand alone airline and overtake the world. However, at the hint of some poor service/performance the Skywest crowd is more than happy to blame their "partner".

Quoting mayor (Reply 13):
My daughter told me recently that they've taken the F/A reserves from SLC and used them to staff the ORD domicile. In turn, they are short of crews at SLC which means that the SLC F/As are less able to trade trips or take time off, so there's more calling in sick.

Please don't tell the poster that was quoted above these facts. It is all UA's fault that Skywest has poor performance and tattered planes. It couldn't possibly be any type of managerial issue at OO
Quoting ual777 (Reply 14):
It's not a matter of OO getting too big. It's a matter of the major partners crushing the profit margins for the regionals.

Too bad if the terms squeeze airlines like OO. It is supply and demand. Way more feed available than needed and OO was not very bright for putting their eggs in the 50 seat basket. Those are the hazards of living by providing out sourced services in any industry. You can and will be replaced at the whim of the supplier.

The problem with OO and the other 50 seat carriers is that the CRJ/ERJ has NEVER had good economics. The major carriers were willing to eat the loss to use the airplanes as weapons against legacy labor. Now that the majors have consolidated and have played the RJ wages against their own employees the need for the RJ is less and less. Passengers don't like the bait and switch method of express flying, they don't like the crowded tiny airplanes, poor service and delays. The legacy carriers are adjusting and with DL's new scope it looks like the trend wil be to reduce the amount of out sourced flying. Overall the carriers like OO and OH were pawns in a game. Many of the employees of these carriers unfortunately thought they were running the board as Kings when in effect they were only pawns.


User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4535 times:

I've noticed a change in OO as well. GENERALLY I find the UA side at ANY UX carrier to be slighted and a "rougher" experience for skeds, crews, ground handling, product on board, etc. DL GENERALLY is a better code-share on all sides and GENERALLY works better with the partners.

When I was on furlough I flew for a company that did both and it was night and day.

Regarding OO crews, I've always seen them to have some of the highest standards--but that's seemed to slip a little. The FA on my commute the other day could not have been more bored and disinterested. But hey, there are bored and disinterested people everywhere.

I still have more reliable and consistent service and OT flights with OO than 9E.



My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlinedurangomac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 743 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4467 times:

Quoting mcdu (Reply 17):
Very interesting that when some type of success metric is announced at Skywest there is an endless blather of how wonderful they are, how they are going to buy 737's, A320's or some other narrowbody. Start up their own stand alone airline and overtake the world. However, at the hint of some poor service/performance the Skywest crowd is more than happy to blame their "partner".

The issue has to do more with the requirement that OO has to follow UA's rules. UA has a had a very rough summer and I doubt anyone is going to argue differently. The trickle down here is many of OO's flights are being delayed because of issues with the PSS switchover and some new rules for flow during turns. Most majors partners mandate policies on how their regional carriers operate flights from on-board products to announcements and even how passengers are supposed to be treated. OO has always tried to do everything better than what the major partner wants.

I can tell you from first hand experience that OO is working very closely with UA on bringing up the quality of the product and UA has admitted that they are having to push initiatives on their side to help all express carriers because they (UA) have dropped the ball. UA is stepping up to the plate and trying to make things better.


User currently offlineazstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 631 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4444 times:

Quoting durangomac (Reply 19):
I can tell you from first hand experience that OO is working very closely with UA on bringing up the quality of the product and UA has admitted that they are having to push initiatives on their side to help all express carriers because they (UA) have dropped the ball. UA is stepping up to the plate and trying to make things better.

That's good to hear. I was getting the impression that OO was running the show, with very little participation from UA.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4426 times:

Quoting mcdu (Reply 17):
It is all UA's fault that Skywest has poor performance and tattered planes. It couldn't possibly be any type of managerial issue at OO

I cannot explain it, but even though my sample size is a lot bigger on DL (though my home base has OO overnight m/x, it's all for DL aircraft and our UA station is mostly Embraer), my OO/DL recent experiences have been as good as ever. I cannot remember my last OO experience that was negative, with the exception of the early BNACVG being delayed often for crew rest.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6200 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4394 times:

Quoting durangomac (Reply 3):
OO has been really



I can give you one perspective from SFO and the OO operation. There were some horrific gate issue's in San Francisco till the T-1 operation opened. And despite the rants on the change, this T-1 operation has been incredibly successful and a very smart move on United's part.

The fact was that UA made the decision to open new routes and had new flights into SFO, but was really cutting things thin on gate capacity. OO was operations 109 daily flights in early 2009 and is currently running around 145 daily now. When they hit 145 daily, they were operationing with 11 gates in which 3 were EMB only and 2 were RJ only really restricting things. Also, as stated above, with an older fleet ex. EMB, you could affect multiple flights by one mechanical delay. This has been relieved with the new terminal operations. As for other OO issue's, I'll keep those to myself.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4064 times:

Quoting azstar (Thread starter):
recently we waited onboard 20 minutes for the pilot to show up

The horror! Scroll to 2:00:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk


User currently offlineazstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 631 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4015 times:

Quoting neveragain (Reply 23):
The horror! Scroll to 2:00:

A pilot showing up 20 minutes late may seem insigificant, but it can mean the difference between making a connection or not making it, and the possibility of waiting hours or even days in a connecting city to get to your destination. And, it's one thing for a pilot to be late if he's coming off a delayed inbound flight, and another thing to be late to the first flight of the day when he lives in the city he's flying from. The marvel of flight notwithstanding.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 25, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4115 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 24):
but it can mean the difference between making a connection or not making it, and the possibility of waiting hours or even days in a connecting city to get to your destination.

That's the risk we take when we book connections of that length.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineazstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 631 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4117 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 25):
That's the risk we take when we book connections of that length.

Forgive me for being so naive, but if the delay is mechanical, or ATC, or weather I accept the risk. I don't believe that a pilot showing up late for an origination flight should be something we passengers should have to be concerned about.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 27, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4114 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 26):
I don't believe that a pilot showing up late for an origination flight should be something we passengers should have to be concerned about.

If you misconnect, what difference does the cause make? And are you suggesting that I should not worry about delays due to crew rest on originators, which might fairly be described as "pilots showing up late?"



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineazstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 631 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4103 times:

[quote=Cubsrule,reply=27]If you misconnect, what difference does the cause make? And are you suggesting that I should not worry about delays due to crew rest on originators, which might fairly be described as "pilots showing up late?"
[/quote

I guess you just completely miss the point.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 29, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4084 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 28):
I guess you just completely miss the point.

Perhaps I have. Why don't you explain it?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineNW747-400 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 504 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4055 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 26):
Forgive me for being so naive, but if the delay is mechanical, or ATC, or weather I accept the risk. I don't believe that a pilot showing up late for an origination flight should be something we passengers should have to be concerned about.

Pilots are humans. They are going to get caught in traffic, get stuck on trains that break down, have to change flat tires, oversleep, get stuck at a hotel because the van is not running as scheduled, etc.

Just because we work in a time sensitive industry does not preclude us from having mishaps on our way to work, even though we go through great lengths to avoid said mishaps and allow a lot of extra time to help with those issues.

Example: A few years ago I had a layover in Chicago and our hotel is downtown. Our car service picked us up on time, but the highway to O'Hare was completely shutdown due to a motorcycle accident about halfway to the airport. Needless to say, the flight did not go out on time.

Example 2: I was riding a train to work in ATL and the train had to completely stop in one of the tunnels due to track flooding. It took thirty minutes for the train operator to obtain a clearance to reverse to the preceding station, then took another hour for me to get a cab and get to the airport in the midst of rush hour. That flight also did not go out on time.


User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 31, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4057 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 28):
I guess you just completely miss the point.

From reading FlyerTalk threads from time to time, I can take a guess.

Quoting azstar (Reply 24):
A pilot showing up 20 minutes late may seem insigificant, but it can mean the difference between making a connection or not making it, and the possibility of waiting hours or even days in a connecting city to get to your destination.

Tell me azstar, how many times have you spent days in a connecting city waiting to get to your destination?

I fly at a minimum every other week, connecting most of the time, as the city-pairs I fly don't have nonstop service. I probably miss 2-3 connections a year. My flights are on-time probably at or about the same average as the airlines I fly--somewhere between 70%-80%. Would I rather not miss my connecting flights? Yes. Would I rather every flight arrive on-time? Of course. Am I surprised when things don't go as planned? No. Why? I can appreciate that running an airline is a complicated business and that there are plenty of factors at play that I don't fully understand or have knowledge of. And, as my grandfather always told me, sh*t happens.

Quoting azstar (Thread starter):
Last month my flight was already 30 minutes late, everyone was seated on board, including the captain, and he got off the plane and came back 5 minutes later with a cup of coffee.

Case in point--this example. Your implication is that the captain sat down in his seat, then decided he wanted a cup of coffee, got off the plane, went to Starbucks, got a grande latte, all in complete and utter disregard for your valuable time. That's a rather dim view of your fellow man. You don't think that decision could have possibly been made because of other issues that you might not be aware of? Dispatch, clearance, or maintenance issues? Do you think the captain in this case likes to be late any more than you do? He or she most often has somewhere to be as well.


User currently offlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1827 posts, RR: 3
Reply 32, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4016 times:

You need to define your timeframe. Here are their DOT figures:

2010; 2011; and YTD-2012
Departure Completion %
98.01% 97.84% 98.19%
Departure 00% of Scheduled Flights
65.31% 66.32% 68.79%
Arrival 14 % of Scheduled Flights
79.05% 79.34% 82.39%


So what's your point? That they are better now than they have been in either of the last two years?


User currently offlineCaspian27 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 383 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3941 times:

Just a few thoughts...

If a pilot got up to get coffee it's probably because they knew they weren't going to push for a bit. They were probably still loading bags in which case they didn't have their cargo load report so they wouldn't have been able to close the door anyway. I find it highly unlikely that a pilot would've delayed the departure for a cup of coffee.

About the situation where you were already boarded up and the pilot came on late...you probably ended up getting a reserve pilot. The station probably knew that so they had everyone boarded and ready to go so that when they got there you could leave as soon as possible. While the company keeps some pilots on ready reserve at the airport, if these were already used up they would have to call someone in. Also, if this happened in a hub, how would this affect connections?

As to the planes and paint. From my perspective it seems that most of the 200's have already received the new paint job. A significant amount of the 700's have receives new paint also, but I would say more are still wearing the old livery but they are in very good condition. Unfortunately, maintenance issues can happen at any time and no matter the airline, they have to be taken care of if they can't be deferred.



Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
User currently offlineAZNCSA4QF744ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 697 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3622 times:

Lets not all rush to blame UA and its SHARES system for reasons. I do agree it does have an affect but to a certain degree. Don't forget many of the out stations that handles UAX were recently transitioned to MQ. Many of these are new hires or confused juggling between different airlines policies. I know for a facts that MQ station manager contacted LAX-OO operations begging them to not dispatched their LAX-SAN flights because SAN-MQ were overwhelmed when they took over the operations.

User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 963 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3538 times:

Quoting AZNCSA4QF744ER (Reply 34):

I thought DGS took over alot of the former OO ground handling contracts along with Regional Elite stations....



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2185 posts, RR: 3
Reply 36, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3526 times:

Quoting NW747-400 (Reply 30):
Example 2: I was riding a train to work in ATL and the train had to completely stop in one of the tunnels due to track flooding. It took thirty minutes for the train operator to obtain a clearance to reverse to the preceding station, then took another hour for me to get a cab and get to the airport in the midst of rush hour. That flight also did not go out on time.

In this situation (I'm going to assume you're based in ATL), do you call in to crew scheduling and tell them? Would they pull a reserve and send them on your trip?

Quoting azstar (Thread starter):
Last month my flight was already 30 minutes late, everyone was seated on board, including the captain, and he got off the plane and came back 5 minutes later with a cup of coffee

They must brew some really awful coffee onboard if the Captain has to leave the plane to get coffee.


User currently onlinemcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1487 posts, RR: 17
Reply 37, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3413 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 29):

Quoting azstar (Reply 28):
I guess you just completely miss the point.

Perhaps I have. Why don't you explain it?


146 318/9 320 343 722 732/3/4/5/G/8 744 752/3 762/3 772 AR8 AT7 CRJ/7/9 DH4 D9S/4/5 ER3/D/4 E70/5 E90 FRJ L15 M83/8 M90

Don't want to speak for him, but I believe I understand what he is trying to say. Seems to be lost on the "so you missed your connection, big deal group". It is all about why the connection was missed. If it is within the airlines' control, no crew, no fuel, late de-ice, no bags loaded etc I would consider that unacceptable. Now male it foggy, thunderstorms, plane broken AFTER pushback and all the things an airline can't control then I would give the airline a break.

The artittude that missing connections is no big deal is absolutely intolerable. Each and every person that buys a ticket with a connection has a right to expect to make that connection. The express employees should know this more than anyone as they deal almost exclusively with connecting traffic. From what I have read here by express employees further solidifies my thoughts that the mainline carriers need to cut the strings and bring the flying in house. There are just too many examples of poor customer service on the express side of the house.


User currently offlineazstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 631 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3376 times:

Quoting mcdu (Reply 37):
The artittude that missing connections is no big deal is absolutely intolerable. Each and every person that buys a ticket with a connection has a right to expect to make that connection. The express employees should know this more than anyone as they deal almost exclusively with connecting traffic. From what I have read here by express employees further solidifies my thoughts that the mainline carriers need to cut the strings and bring the flying in house. There are just too many examples of poor customer service on the express side of the house.

Thank you.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 39, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3333 times:

Quoting mcdu (Reply 37):
The artittude that missing connections is no big deal is absolutely intolerable. Each and every person that buys a ticket with a connection has a right to expect to make that connection.

Not "no big deal." I hate missing them. Missing connections is inevitable if you fly enough. Stuff happens. And sometimes, it's entirely within the carrier's control, but sometimes it's not. How about the example I cited above, of a delay on an originator for crew rest? Let's assume the delay the day before was outside of the carrier's control. The length of the rest period is within the carrier's control, no? Should every airline schedule 16 hour RONs for all crew?

Quoting mcdu (Reply 37):
There are just too many examples of poor customer service on the express side of the house.

Qualitatively (and discussing UA), I don't think the number of bad apples is that much different on the Express side than on the Mainline side. It's pretty low on both sides. On US, I'd rather have an issue at a Piedmont station than at a Mainline station. Most of the Piedmont ground staff are fantastic.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 40, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3275 times:

Quoting mcdu (Reply 37):
If it is within the airlines' control, no crew, no fuel, late de-ice, no bags loaded etc I would consider that unacceptable. Now male it foggy, thunderstorms, plane broken AFTER pushback and all the things an airline can't control then I would give the airline a break.

First of all, we have no idea if the delays the OP is citing were within the airline's control or not. It is his perception that they were, but others here have come up with perfectly logical scenarios in which they could not be.

Second of all, the real funny thing is, I don't think the OP even missed a connection in this instance. All he talked about was the risk of missing a connection.

One might have the "right" to expect to make a connection, sure. But if a frequent enough traveler believes that he or she is always going to make a connection, he or she will be disappointed. Most of the time, not, but some of the time, sure.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 37):
There are just too many examples of poor customer service on the express side of the house.
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 39):
Qualitatively (and discussing UA), I don't think the number of bad apples is that much different on the Express side than on the Mainline side. It's pretty low on both sides.

   I fly probably about 2/3 regional affiliate, 1/3 mainline. Not because of my own personal preference, but because of the city pairs that I fly on. And that has certainly been my experience. It's often the case, the regionals have better service than the mainline connection I'm flying on. A lot of times I'm astounded that such poorly paid employees go out of their way to provide good service. Not all of them, but a good amount of them.


User currently offlineazstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 631 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3253 times:

Quoting neveragain (Reply 40):
I fly probably about 2/3 regional affiliate, 1/3 mainline. Not because of my own personal preference, but because of the city pairs that I fly on. And that has certainly been my experience. It's often the case, the regionals have better service than the mainline connection I'm flying on. A lot of times I'm astounded that such poorly paid employees go out of their way to provide good service. Not all of them, but a good amount of them.



I was not referring to all Express carriers in my post. I was referring to Skywest. And, I am not aware of their performance, good, mediocre, or bad all over the system. I'm referring, specficially, to situations I've seen at my airport of departure on multiple occasions.

To further expound on the "pilot got coffee.." It's true that there could have been an ATC delay or something I wasn't aware of. However, I was sitting in F class (1A) on the CRJ, and as you might know, it's practically in the cockpit. Everyone was waiting to go and the captain turned to the FO and said "I've gotta get a cup of coffee". The gate agent was just about to pull the jetbridge extension back and the captain bolted up and said to him "hold on a second" and dashed off. The gate agent was surprised too, because he said to the flight attendant "what was that all about?". Then, the capt returned with his coffee..

A couple weeks later I was waiting for my early AM departure, and the gate right next to mine shut the door and the agent went on the jet bridge. It was about 3-4 minutes to departure. A pilot comes walking up the agent at my gate and says "you gotta open that jet bridge door. I'm the pilot for that flight". Then he says to the agent how he was "stuck" in security (it's not a huge airport and crews have a separate line). The agent says to him, nicely, "shouldn't you be here earlier?" and the pilot just goes off on him. I think the flight ended up being late.

[Edited 2012-10-14 08:30:48]

User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 42, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3208 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 41):
And, I am not aware of their performance, good, mediocre, or bad all over the system. I'm referring, specficially, to situations I've seen at my airport of departure on multiple occasions.

And you decide to title the post "What Happened To Skywest? Poor Performance"?

Quoting azstar (Reply 41):
The gate agent was just about to pull the jetbridge extension back and the captain bolted up and said to him "hold on a second" and dashed off.

That is bizarre. Since it sounds like you fly a lot, probably the best course of action besides dropping an e-mail to UA customer care would be to try to speak with someone at the airport to express your concerns.


User currently onlinemcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1487 posts, RR: 17
Reply 43, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3140 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 39):
Not "no big deal." I hate missing them. Missing connections is inevitable if you fly enough. Stuff happens. And sometimes, it's entirely within the carrier's control, but sometimes it's not. How about the example I cited above, of a delay on an originator for crew rest? Let's assume the delay the day before was outside of the carrier's control. The length of the rest period is within the carrier's control, no? Should every airline schedule 16 hour RONs for all crew?

The Regionals tend to schedule their crews with little if any pad for operational issues. That is why you see so many delays for crews on the RJ side of the house. The majors tend to have better pad in their operations and better reserve staffing to help bridge the operational impacts from weather. So yes, to answer your question the regional carriers are responsible for a good portion of those crew delays that occur due to rest requirements. If they were not operating on the "blue sky" margin versus what actually takes place it might help with many of the operational issues at the RJ level. Of course they won't change because their margins are so thin they barely fly above the minimum legality in all phases of flight. They are about to expend cost for crews that won't be needed 365 days a year.

This is what this industry has devolved into. Carriers like OO that give the minimum, blame others when they don't perform and hide behind the cloak of being a outsourced service when convenient.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 44, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2996 times:

Quoting mcdu (Reply 43):
Carriers like OO that give the minimum, blame others when they don't perform

Please tell us specifically how OO as a company "gives the minimum" and "blames others when it doesn't perform."



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 45, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2970 times:

Quoting mcdu (Reply 43):
This is what this industry has devolved into. Carriers like OO that give the minimum, blame others when they don't perform and hide behind the cloak of being a outsourced service when convenient.
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 44):
Please tell us specifically how OO as a company "gives the minimum" and "blames others when it doesn't perform."

I certainly haven't seen that in my experiences. For the most part, it's very hard for me to tell the difference in operational performance or customer service in mainline versus regional operators that isn't attributable to the differences in personalities and demeanors of the individual flight crews and customer service agents. If you have a bad flight on OO, I'd say it's more likely due to the behavior and actions of individual staff members versus some sort of company culture of "giv[ing] the minimum" (I think most of the OP's concerns are attributable to this). It's the same dynamic on mainline flights.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3640 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2934 times:

Quoting NW747-400 (Reply 30):
get stuck on trains that break down

Oh, you were in Denver recently? LOL  


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21877 posts, RR: 55
Reply 47, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2788 times:

Quoting mcdu (Reply 43):
Of course they won't change because their margins are so thin they barely fly above the minimum legality in all phases of flight.

And that wouldn't have anything at all to do with the mainline carriers playing them off against one another in an effort to find the lowest bidder, would it?

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinecrj900lr From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2758 times:

Quoting mcdu (Reply 17):
Very interesting that when some type of success metric is announced at Skywest there is an endless blather of how wonderful they are, how they are going to buy 737's, A320's or some other narrowbody. Start up their own stand alone airline and overtake the world. However, at the hint of some poor service/performance the Skywest crowd is more than happy to blame their "partner".

Hmm where have I heard this before only not at Skywest??


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
What Happened To Flightblogger? posted Wed Sep 12 2012 04:05:47 by JoeCanuck
What Happened To New DL Safety Video? posted Mon Aug 13 2012 15:52:03 by fanoftristars
What Happened To AS657 This Evening? posted Thu Apr 12 2012 21:54:22 by KELPkid
What Happened To N4744NA National Airlines "Donna" posted Mon Apr 2 2012 15:27:13 by mkh32404
What Happened To JetBlue's Anticipated HQ Move To Orlando? posted Sun Mar 11 2012 09:55:49 by doulasc
What Happened To US Airways’ Planned PEK Route? posted Wed Feb 22 2012 08:38:51 by Zhamnov
What Happened To Delta Operations At MCO? posted Sun Feb 19 2012 14:18:17 by avi8
What Happened To Delta's "Cozy Suites"? posted Fri Feb 10 2012 23:33:32 by Rising
What Happened To The LH A380 At IAD? posted Sat Jan 7 2012 11:33:31 by rjm777ual
LOT 767 Emergency - What Happened To The Runway? posted Sun Dec 25 2011 16:53:44 by abrown532