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Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.  
User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 529 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5553 times:

I realized that Air France served MIA in the 1960s and 1970s but they did not fly from MIA-ORY or CDG then. Correct me
if I am wrong.Their operatoin was flights to the French Antilles like Guadeloupe and Martinique. What aircraft were operated
and when did Air France first start MIA-CDG(or ORY). I don't think Air France still operates flights from MIA-French Antillies.

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32729 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5530 times:

Air France began Miami-Paris in the 1980s, around '87-'88, IIRC.

Air France still flies Miami-Pointe Pitre daily with a stop in Port Au Prince.



a.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25154 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5487 times:

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
I don't think Air France still operates flights from MIA-French Antillies.

Yes they do. Current schedule shows 5 x week AF A320 service MIA-PAP-PTP. From PTP they also operate to FDF and CAY.

I think they have 2 A320s based in PTP to operate those routes. Over the years they've also used the Caravelle, 727 and 737 on those routes.

Looks like MIA-Caribbean services started in the late 1960s. There's nothing to MIA in a 1966 timetable but the May 1969 timetable shows a daily AF Caravelle MIA-PAP-SJU-ANU-PTP-FDF. Also 2 Caravelles a week PTP-FDF-POS-GEO-CAY. One flight also stopped in BGI and the other in PBM. There were also 3 DC-4s a week PTP-SXM-SJU.

Apart from the MIA services there were also 2 707s a week JFK-PTP. One flight continued to FDF.

I think AF started Paris-Miami sometime in themid to late 1980s. Found a news item dated April 1985 saying they had applied for rights to serve MIA as a stop en route to MEX and were optimistic it would be approved for service starting in 1986, but can't find anything specific re the service starting. In 1985 they operated to MEX via IAH.

[Edited 2012-10-09 19:36:41]

[Edited 2012-10-09 19:37:26]

User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7411 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5347 times:

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
when did Air France first start MIA-CDG(or ORY).
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 1):
Air France began Miami-Paris in the 1980s, around '87-'88, IIRC.

Correct. AF received traffic rights to operate MIA and SFO from Paris-CDG in 1986. Flights to MIA started to be operated with a B747-200.
Right after UTA was bought up by AF in 1991, the route was operated temporarily by UTA on behalf of AF with a DC10.


User currently offlinebeechtobus From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5284 times:

So how was this Caribbean flying linked to Paris if MIA didn't have AF Paris service between the late 60s and late 90s? Was it just via the JFK-PTP flights, was there direct service from one of the island airports to Paris, or was the MIA-island service independent of the rest of the AF network?

User currently offlinegoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1841 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5272 times:

Quoting beechtobus (Reply 4):
was there direct service from one of the island airports to Paris

Yes, there are nonstop flights from Guadeloupe (PTP) and Martinique (FDF) to ORY. They were already existing at that time, although they were probably not daily/multiple daily as today. For your information, if you look at the statistics for number of pax on transatlantic routes, ORY-FDF and ORY-PTP are among the top busiest routes.


User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 529 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5076 times:

I beleive the only MIA-Paris(ORY) service in the 1960s and 1970s was operated by Aeromexico, MEX-MIA-MAD-ORY.

User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5002 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2):
In 1985 they operated to MEX via IAH.

Unrelated to the thread, but I believe this service started 1970ish after the opening of IAH. KL served AMS-YUL-HOU-MEX for 10+ years before IAH opened.


User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2679 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4977 times:

A bit off topic, btI don't know why, I am sure that AF will send their A380s someday to MIA.
Look, AF switched to 77W for the MIA route, but soon (from April 2013), they will restart to send their 744s.
A shame the route is no longer daily though



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User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8337 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4942 times:

Many traveling through Miami in teh 1970's through AF flew to Paris since they saw an Air France counter, National airlines was the first one to fly nonstop to Paris a few times weekly with Dc-10-30 in the mid 1970's. In the 20 plus years AF has flown to MIA from CDG almost every long haul plane in the fleet has flown the route except for the A380.

User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2679 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4926 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
years AF has flown to MIA from CDG almost every long haul plane in the fleet has flown the route except for the A380

I think the A332 never flew to MIA



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User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8337 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4881 times:

Quoting LY777 (Reply 10):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):years AF has flown to MIA from CDG almost every long haul plane in the fleet has flown the route except for the A380
I think the A332 never flew to MIA

Like I said "almost" every long haul type.


User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2679 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4859 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 11):
Like I said "almost" every long haul type.

So, that would be:

DC-10
742
744
A343
77W

I don't know if AF ever sent their 772s, I don't think so, too?!



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User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2530 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4859 times:
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OAG for '63 shows no AF service to/from MIA in either the Summer or Winter schedules.
The only service I can recall to the French islands out of MIA in those days was on PA.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2221 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4831 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2):
Over the years they've also used the Caravelle, 727 and 737 on those routes.

In the mid 1970s, these routes were flown with 737-247s leased from Western, in full Air France colors. The aircraft leased from WA were the only 737s to carry AF's old blue / white scheme. I think they were eventually repainted into AF's red / white / blue scheme.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 881 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4743 times:

Out of topic, but also from Martinique (FDF) AF used to fly to CCS with B737-300 isn't it? And also to PBM and BEL as far as I remember.

Why they didn't try to extend the operations from Martinique and Guadeloupe to other destinations with the A320? I know TX is doing it now, but unfortunately they stopped to fly to PTY and SJO.


User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6818 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4542 times:

11/67 OAG says AF Caravelles were to start 3/week at MIA on 15 Nov. No AF at MIA before that.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25154 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4410 times:

Quoting goldorak (Reply 5):
Yes, there are nonstop flights from Guadeloupe (PTP) and Martinique (FDF) to ORY. They were already existing at that time, although they were probably not daily/multiple daily as today.

In the peak summer months in 1969 there were 9 707s week from ORY to either FDF or PTP. Some flights served both points. Two flights continued to CAY and two continued to other points in South America.

One flight stopped at LIS between ORY and PTP. That one went all the way to SCL with 6 stops, ORY-LIS-PTP-CCS-BOG-UIO-LIM-SCL. Another operated ORY-PTP-BOG-LIM.


User currently offlinegoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1841 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4363 times:

Quoting LY777 (Reply 8):
A bit off topic, btI don't know why, I am sure that AF will send their A380s someday to MIA.

May be, but certainly not in its actual configuration which has too many premium seats (P & J) for CDG-MIA

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17):
In the peak summer months in 1969 there were 9 707s week from ORY to either FDF or PTP. Some flights served both points. Two flights continued to CAY and two continued to other points in South America.

Interesting. Thank you !


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7411 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4236 times:

Quoting LY777 (Reply 8):

Ryanair will offer full free hot meals on all its flights before AF send its A380 to MIA ...


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8337 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4169 times:

Quoting goldorak (Reply 18):
Quoting LY777 (Reply 8):A bit off topic, btI don't know why, I am sure that AF will send their A380s someday to MIA.
May be, but certainly not in its actual configuration which has too many premium seats (P & J) for CDG-MIA

Air France seems to have an J class problem in Miami. Lufthansa sends their A380 to Miami with many J seats and they fill the plane. BA has two 744 and one 772 daily to MIA, they sell those F and J seats with no problem. WHY does AF have a problem selling J class seats to Miami ?


User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2679 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4138 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20):

I am wondering the same... Very good question.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 19):
Ryanair will offer full free hot meals on all its flights before AF send its A380 to MIA ...

Maybe in another configuration, and during peak season only



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User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 881 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3961 times:

A great video (January 2012) showing at SDQ, the AF B744 landing from CDG just followed by the A320 landing from PTP. Amazing to see both AF aircraft at the same time at SDQ!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J79gY8dAtJc&feature=relmfu


User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 881 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3948 times:

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
I don't think Air France still operates flights from MIA-French Antillies.

And I forgot, the video of the AF A320 at MIA (July 2012) to PAP-PTP-FDF.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz2ail3WSwU


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32729 posts, RR: 72
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3890 times:

Quoting LY777 (Reply 8):
A bit off topic, btI don't know why, I am sure that AF will send their A380s someday to MIA.
Look, AF switched to 77W for the MIA route, but soon (from April 2013), they will restart to send their 744s.
A shame the route is no longer daily though

It's daily most of the year, including right now.

It still perplexes me how AF/KL do so poorly in a market others - especially LX, AZ and BA - have no problem.



a.
25 Aesma : Maybe it's because Germans and others have properties in MIA and not French people ?
26 FlySSC : There is no plan for AF to have another config in the A380. Moreover, AF has only 12 A380 on order. 8 are already in service and there are many Premi
27 LY777 : OK, thanks Which are the next A380 destinations?
28 xdlx : Wonder if AF could operate a A319 in all F/C MIA-JFK-CDG-JFK-MIA
29 FlySSC : PVG (subject to Chinese authorirties approval ...) GIG PEK HKG (?)
30 LY777 : Thanks. Do you know why AF switched MIA to 744 from April 2013? Do all 744s have AVOD now? Is GEXB still flying? Thanks
31 mah4546 : French own a ton of properties in South Florida. There has been a significant migration of French to Miami, especially French Jews, in the past decad
32 LY777 : Thanks, that's interesting[Edited 2012-10-16 03:36:42]
33 FlySSC : All the B744 are now retrofitted with the new seats, the new IFE and PTVs in all Classes. F-GEXB is the last aircraft to be refurbished ans is curren
34 LY777 : Thanks for the info. Inever thought GEXB could still be flying. I remember that it was stored in 2010 IIRC (?) Do GITI/H/J have also new seats in Y a
35 FlySSC : F-GITH / TI / TJ will be fitted with the new seats but will keep the existing Rockwell & Collins AVOD IFE (similar to the one on the B777 & A
36 LY777 : Thanks. I heard the new panasonic system was great
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