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Pilot Rumor: TN To Be "acquired" By DL Somehow  
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6944 posts, RR: 18
Posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16528 times:

Here's the rumor of the century:

I was drinking on Mill the other day and was chatting with a FX Pilot who flew the MD-11 for DL and moved over to FX when the MD-11 was retired. He cites his contacts with DL still and said he deadheads quite often with DL.

I know about our own views on pilot rumors but this one was the craziest I've heard in some time.

He said that due to the losses that TN is gaining, DL may purchase a "stake" in TN that would involve them taking control of some of their Assets. The main thing that DL is interested in is the route authority from PPT-LAX-CDG, as well as additional Asia/Pacific routes. The 343 is something that intrigued me, and this pilot had no info on what DL would do with the 343, but he speculated a lot of 767s/330s would be moved to A/Pac for these routes.


I don't know about you, but it sounds wild. If DL does get some stake in TN, 1) how could that be legal? 2) what would actually happen to the 343s 3) would this actually be a good idea?

Have fun with this one, A.net   

PHX787


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1131 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16479 times:

I think your friend might be using some interesting herbs.

First TN is a French company, and only maximum 49% foreign ownership is allowed.

Second, DL already has defacto route rights for PPT-LAX-CDG. It could launch service on both sectors tomorrow if it wished.

Additionally DL could also operate beyond from PPT to all types of places like Australia or New Zealand with full traffic rights. This is already in the bilateral.

Lastly - the Air France JV already covers these routes. Why Delta needs another airline partner to replicate what it has with AF is comical.


User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4762 posts, RR: 43
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16420 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
I was drinking on Mill the other day and was chatting with a FX Pilot who flew the MD-11 for DL and moved over to FX when the MD-11 was retired

I found this a little strange. If someone were senior enough to fly the MD-11 at DL, he wouldn't "move over" to FX when the aircraft was retired. He would simply be retrained on another aircraft within DL.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9082 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16269 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 2):

I found this a little strange. If someone were senior enough to fly the MD-11 at DL, he wouldn't "move over" to FX when the aircraft was retired. He would simply be retrained on another aircraft within DL.

unless he quit working for Delta and went to FX....



yep.
User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 833 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16276 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
The main thing that DL is interested in is the route authority from PPT-LAX-CDG, as well as additional Asia/Pacific routes.

Why would DL want to take over a route that loses millions a year and take over an aircraft no one wants? They have better equipment than TN and could fly the route as soon as they loaded it into the system with DL metal.

Stop hanging out with ASU grads on mill .... you want a credible rumor go to Tucson and hang with UofA people  


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16251 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 2):
I found this a little strange. If someone were senior enough to fly the MD-11 at DL, he wouldn't "move over" to FX when the aircraft was retired. He would simply be retrained on another aircraft within DL.
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 3):
unless he quit working for Delta and went to FX....

That's what happened. He said he wanted to continue flying the MD-11 and he said that FX offered better hours for him and his family.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 1):

But then again if they acquire the 49% stake could they have authority over those routes or not?

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 4):
Stop hanging out with ASU grads on mill .... you want a credible rumor go to Tucson and hang with UofA people


hahaha well I am in the process of transferring to Japan  Wink

[Edited 2012-10-09 20:34:38]


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9970 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16216 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
But then again if they acquire the 49% stake could they have authority over those routes or not?

But as has been explained, why bother? If they wanted to do the route, today, they could.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1227 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16196 times:

One does not simply move from the MD11 @ DL to the MD11 @ FredEx. Calling BS on that one.

User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 913 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 16010 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
I was drinking on Mill the other day and was chatting with a FX Pilot who flew the MD-11 for DL

Alot egos on Mill, enough said. Everyone knows everything, espically when they are drinking



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13255 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15981 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Sounds like yet another unfounded a.net rumor. Big surprise.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 4):
you want a credible rumor go to Tucson and hang with UofA people

If I want to hang with UofA grads, all I need to do is order a pizza; they're obligated to get it to me in 30 minutes or less.  



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9082 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15965 times:

Quoting Flaps (Reply 7):

why not? I have seen new hires at Delta go right to the 7ER.



yep.
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15944 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
I don't know about you, but it sounds wild.

Earlier today, a FedEx MD-11 flew directly over me at about 2,000' feet while landing at PDX. Over the engine roar, I could hear the pilots chuckling about some rumor they started in Phoenix about DL buying TN. Oh man, were they having a good time!  

(Part of that story is indeed factual.)



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15905 times:

Quoting Flaps (Reply 7):
One does not simply move from the MD11 @ DL to the MD11 @ FredEx. Calling BS on that one.
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 10):
why not? I have seen new hires at Delta go right to the 7ER.

He's been with FX for a "few years" he said but he never told me how long he was at DL. He mostly talked of his time at FX.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9):
Sounds like yet another unfounded a.net rumor. Big surprise.

Yeah I know it's not something you guys wanna read every day but I simply thought it was hilarious.

my hand to god, he was sober when he told me this too. He was just having dinner at the PF Changs with me while waiting for a deadheader to LAX.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 11):
(Part of that story is indeed factual.)

   part of that post made my night  


What makes pilots start such crazy rumors? I don't quite get the logic behind half of the ones I read here, especially this one.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 433 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15754 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
He's been with FX for a "few years" he said but he never told me how long he was at DL. He mostly talked of his time at FX.

It doesn't sound likely to just change from one airline to another like that.. It isn't a professional sport with trades and free agency and such.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
What makes pilots start such crazy rumors? I don't quite get the logic behind half of the ones I read here, especially this one.

It gets really boring in the cockpit, I only have my PPL and I already get bored on flights..

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Here's the rumor of the century:

Its 2012, theres 88 years left, I am no longer excited for the rest of the century then...



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 833 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 15666 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9):
If I want to hang with UofA grads, all I need to do is order a pizza; they're obligated to get it to me in 30 minutes or less.

No no no you messed it all up ... its how do you get an ASU grad off your porch ? .... pay for the pizza.  


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2757 posts, RR: 45
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15598 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 2):
Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
I was drinking on Mill the other day and was chatting with a FX Pilot who flew the MD-11 for DL and moved over to FX when the MD-11 was retired

I found this a little strange. If someone were senior enough to fly the MD-11 at DL, he wouldn't "move over" to FX when the aircraft was retired. He would simply be retrained on another aircraft within DL.

Correct, unless a quite senior pilot happened to REALLY want to work for FX, in which case I doubt he went straight to the MD-11 with a better schedule than he had. I agree with longhauler, this is extraordinarily dubious.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 3):
Quoting longhauler (Reply 2):

I found this a little strange. If someone were senior enough to fly the MD-11 at DL, he wouldn't "move over" to FX when the aircraft was retired. He would simply be retrained on another aircraft within DL.

unless he quit working for Delta and went to FX....

Very unlikely; the MD-11 was extremely senior and leaving that much seniority behind is not totally unheard of, but extremely uncommon. Besides, even if he got hired by FX into the right seat of the MD-11, his schedule at the bottom of the list would not be enviable.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
He's been with FX for a "few years" he said but he never told me how long he was at DL. He mostly talked of his time at FX.

It would have been more than a few years.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
What makes pilots start such crazy rumors? I don't quite get the logic behind half of the ones I read here, especially this one.

I agree. Why are you spreading these rumors if you think they are crazy?


User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15599 times:

Quoting Flaps (Reply 7):
One does not simply move from the MD11 @ DL to the MD11 @ FredEx. Calling BS on that one.

FX is hiring into the right seat of the MD-11 right now (or at least they were a few a few months ago). I know someone from Eagle that just got hired right out of the ERJ into the MD-10/11.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13255 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15533 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 14):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9):If I want to hang with UofA grads, all I need to do is order a pizza; they're obligated to get it to me in 30 minutes or less.
No no no you messed it all up ... its how do you get an ASU grad off your porch ? .... pay for the pizza.

Nah, it's a tired, old joke about UofA grads.

Ranks right up there with "What's the difference between Tempe and Tucson? Tempe has nightlife. Tucson has...night."



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2757 posts, RR: 45
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15533 times:

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 16):
Quoting Flaps (Reply 7):
One does not simply move from the MD11 @ DL to the MD11 @ FredEx. Calling BS on that one.

FX is hiring into the right seat of the MD-11 right now (or at least they were a few a few months ago). I know someone from Eagle that just got hired right out of the ERJ into the MD-10/11.

Being hired into the right seat of the MD-11 is not the issue. The MD-11 at FX is not as senior with a large fleet as it is when it's a small fleet at the very top of the seniority list and payscale (e.g. DL, AA.) Leaving the MD-11 at one airline where it is exceptionally senior for FX is the reason several of us are highly dubious, particularly given the nature of the rumor attributed to this guy.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15492 times:

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 15):
I agree. Why are you spreading these rumors if you think they are crazy?

Well not necessarily spreading the rumor, just telling you what I heard for a good laugh and analysis for what-if.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 14):
No no no you messed it all up ... its how do you get an ASU grad off your porch ? .... pay for the pizza.

   I've heard that one!

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 15):
It would have been more than a few years.

I'm guessing. He looked to be in his later 40s/early 50s.

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 16):
FX is hiring into the right seat of the MD-11 right now (or at least they were a few a few months ago). I know someone from Eagle that just got hired right out of the ERJ into the MD-10/11.

I heard cargo airlines' hiring/seniority is rather strange.

if he got hired into FX, lets say 5 or 6 years ago, where would he start?

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 18):
Leaving the MD-11 at one airline where it is exceptionally senior for FX is the reason several of us are highly dubious, particularly given the nature of the rumor attributed to this guy.

He told me that he's in PHX quite a bit and frequents mill, so if I run into him again I'll ask him.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineNWADTWE16 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15471 times:

This may have nothing to do with this or anything else but as a former NWA person i was interested in Delta's current route map and while it appears to show only DELTA service/not code-shares it included from LAX service to -PPT|MEL|BNE and i think maybe AKL none of which they service with their own aircraft. In true A.net fashion maybe the PPT part has to do with this rumor LOL...

User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9970 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15439 times:

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 20):
This may have nothing to do with this or anything else but as a former NWA person i was interested in Delta's current route map and while it appears to show only DELTA service/not code-shares it included from LAX service to -PPT|MEL|BNE and i think maybe AKL none of which they service with their own aircraft. In true A.net fashion maybe the PPT part has to do with this rumor LOL...

These particular routes could be involved in the DL/Virgin Australia JV out of LAX.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9082 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15292 times:

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 20):

LAX-PPT is a AF route. The rest....

Quoting mayor (Reply 21):
DL/Virgin Australia JV

no AKL though.



yep.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15196 times:

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 20):
In true A.net fashion maybe the PPT part has to do with this rumor LOL...

Seriously though what's the value of PPT if routes from there keep losing money?

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 22):
no AKL though.

Doesn't HA serve this route? Since HA is a SkyMiles partner I can see more alliances/partnerships with DL in the future (especially since DL has some heavy ops out of HNL)



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2254 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 14900 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 2):
I found this a little strange. If someone were senior enough to fly the MD-11 at DL, he wouldn't "move over" to FX when the aircraft was retired. He would simply be retrained on another aircraft within DL.

I agree

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 3):
unless he quit working for Delta and went to FX....
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
That's what happened. He said he wanted to continue flying the MD-11 and he said that FX offered better hours for him and his family.
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 15):
Very unlikely; the MD-11 was extremely senior and leaving that much seniority behind is not totally unheard of, but extremely uncommon. Besides, even if he got hired by FX into the right seat of the MD-11, his schedule at the bottom of the list would not be enviable.

True that FX has hired into the right seat of the -11/-10 but mostly to ANC base and there the sched may be somewhat better than MEM since it's mostly Asian bound but he would be junior none the less. Sounds like a few missing pieces to this story.


25 rwsea : Ah yes, the daily rumor overheard from an airline pilot... No way DL would be interested in TN. Ever. At most, I could see them taking over for AF on
26 aircanada014 : My dad retired as a captain, he always hear rumors. It's just a rumour. Any pilots can tell you lots of rumors going around. It's not going to happen.
27 koruman : There is actually one thing which could make Air Tahiti Nui interesting to a foreign investor. It's an EU airline, which means that it has comprehensi
28 Polot : It also means that you are limited to only 49% ownership (unless you are already an EU airline- but then TN's rights are meaningless), and you know t
29 Post contains images cbphoto : Simple really, so we can time how long it takes for us to tell the rumor at said "watering hole" to make it to airliners.net. Often a wager is involv
30 bobnwa : A pilot did not start this crazy rumor on Anet, You did.
31 neveragain : Maybe Delta dba Air Tahiti Nui will start a hub in Cincinnati.
32 tsnamm : Didn't TN & AA start a code-share anyway?
33 ABQopsHP : When will you learn. The pilot group has grist for the "Mill" ground to a fine pulp. In my 28 years of working in this biz, I used to take what they
34 HOMsAR : This rumor has to be true. My neighbor's cousin works for AS, and he said there was going to be a merger between AS and TN. Since that didn't happen,
35 DeltaMD90 : You know, I think the "Delta Dartboard" actually refers to random people (other than DL management) throwing darts at not just routes, but at random c
36 mayor : Funny how these things work.......it was my experience, working at DL at small, medium and large stations that MOST rumors coming from the pilots aren
37 Post contains images yowza : 0% chance of this happening. YOWza
38 DLD9S : Wow, so DL is buying AS, TN and HA?
39 Post contains images PHX787 : Yeah exactly. I don't think DL could pull a profit on that route at all. Actually right now I don't think any investor wants anything to do with the
40 mayor : How about KE?
41 RDH3E : My question is: Was the guy eligible for retirement at DL? If so then it's an entirely plausible story.
42 rampart : Hey, I resemble that remark. LOL! You're killing me!
43 Post contains images XFSUgimpLB41X : Just to give perspective on how senior the DL MD-11 FO position was...those that were able to hold it are now pretty senior 767 captains. Something sm
44 type-rated : Sometimes I think pilots like to start rumors just to see aviation fans get all worked up over it. I have a rule I follow: "Believe it when it's at th
45 Max Q : Completely agree, I suspect the only MD11 time this chap has is on Flight Sim. Calling absolute BS on this one !
46 Post contains images blueflyer : They could have "authority" in the way that a large, perhaps even the largest, shareholder would have influence over the running of the airline, but
47 dlramp4life : Yes, according to the world of airliners.net.... As do I haha
48 GSPSPOT : Not an airline-related question here, but.... What is "Mill"? A road?
49 Post contains images B757forever : DL will acquire TN immediatly after placing an order for 150 A380s and 100 B747-800s...
50 phxa340 : A road where Arizona State University students go to "Study" the fine selection of adult beverages available.
51 dlramp4life : It is a road in Tempe right near ASU, it is a local drinking hotspot.
52 GSPSPOT : Aaaah.... Much like "The Library", where my older cousin used to go (and truthfully told his parents) on various evenings during college! lol
53 PHX787 : There used to be a bar there called the "Schoolhouse" and it closed down and was replaced lol Mill is our hip and happening spot lol named after some
54 Post contains images Byrdluvs747 : As a non-ASU student, I can verify that its not only students studying the inventory of adult libations on Mill.
55 rampart : What I find amazing is how many people here DID know what "Mill" was referring to. Is the old mill there any more? I remember when it was, and still
56 rlwynn : TN may not be making any money as an airline. But in the big picture it is making money for the owners (France). Just think of the millions and millio
57 Polot : Except it is not. Tourism has been faltering in Tahiti and many hotels have been closing. The benefit that TN brings versus offering incentives to ot
58 PHX787 : They just reopened it as a museum last week. It looks nice
59 Byrdluvs747 : Its really not a "lake" in the natural sense, just a section of the Salt thats been dammed. Define "not long ago" because the lake was filled in July
60 Post contains images Flighty : Right at the "Library" for example IIRC
61 Post contains images CF-CPI : DL will no doubt acquire a fleet of A340-300 aircraft to serve this route, since they are inexpensive on the second-hand market, and they are the only
62 rampart : I know. I was acquainted with the plans. I left in '95. It's all relative. Cool! Something I'd recognize. The growth there is phenomenal. -Rampart
63 PHX787 : Waaaaaait are you being serious or sarcastic?
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