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Delta's Richard Anderson Hinting On SEA-LHR  
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 14066 times:

I was just watching a news reel (actually an internal promo) featuring RA and Brad Tilden on the "big" DL/AS announcement.

Anyway, one interesting comment that Richard made was "Going east we have, with our alliance partners, non-stop service to Paris, Amsterdam; and we hope in the near future to add London..."

What do you make of this?

[Edited 2012-10-11 21:23:12]

[Edited 2012-10-11 21:33:42]


What gets measured gets done.
88 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinepu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 697 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 14014 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Thread starter):
What do you make of this?

I make of it Delta is advancing their market in new and arguably innovative ways while UA, AA and US are spending resources (and losing YEARS in time) peeocupied with their own problems and the s-l-o-w bankruptcy process.

Hitting at London now is smart while AA teters in chaos and from a market weak for AA anyway. London remains the big prize in Europe and Delta is slowly, slowly, making inroads. BA will keep their large Indian customer base transiting Heathrow for America, but now Delta captures a wonderful market in SEA going to Europe. LAX-LHR on the radar?

Pu

[Edited 2012-10-11 21:28:35]

User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9642 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 13886 times:

Northwest tried but did not do that well with poor times. I do think a DL 763 should work based on O/D. AS already codeshares with BA so DL is looking for local traffic.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinepu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 697 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 13831 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 2):
AS already codeshares with BA

Amazing.
If I was unkind I might say AS is the whore of the industry, selling themselves to all comers. But they are sitting pretty and IMO can consider only WN as posessing management in their league.

Pu


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 13811 times:

Quoting pu (Reply 3):
Amazing.
If I was unkind I might say AS is the whore of the industry, selling themselves to all comers. But they are sitting pretty and IMO can consider only WN as posessing management in their league.

Pu

Well, it's been said before that AS is a codeshare whore...

It's a good thing though. That's how they do what they do so well. And why I think they will remain an independent entity.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinepu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 697 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 13693 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 4):
And why I think they will remain an independent entity.

I was going to open the door to this subtopic, but I don't much value the regular and baseless gossip about who will buy AS and didn't want to steer the thread towards fantasy and speculation. But we'd have to say Delta is now (or will be soon) the closest of all Alaska's girlfriends, agree?
.
...and given that most of us marry the closest of all our suitors, this seems a case study in how to organise a trial marriage.

Hostile takeovers don't seem to be work in the airline industry, so it becomes a question of:
a. how well this endeavor works out for both parties, and
b. If Alaska's boardmembers, like all men, have a price they cannot refuse

...but disaster comes fast to those who overpay...


Pu


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13602 posts, RR: 61
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13584 times:
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Quoting pu (Reply 5):
we'd have to say Delta is now (or will be soon) the closest of all Alaska's girlfriends, agree?
.

Disagree. Both codeshare to the same degree with AS (literally, the codeshare enplanements and markets served are nearly the same size for DL and AA) and AS has stated they wish to strengthen their alliance with AA; it's just become more difficult due to their bankruptcy disrupting normal operations there.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineYukon880 From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 137 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13504 times:
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Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 6):
...and AS has stated they wish to strengthen their alliance with AA; it's just become more difficult due to their bankruptcy disrupting normal operations there.

How convenient for DL though, no?



Pratt & Whitney, In thrust we trust!
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13428 times:

Quoting Yukon880 (Reply 7):
How convenient for DL though, no?

I mean really, looking at the press release video, AS's presence seemed sort of out of place if nothing more than DL trying to stick it to American.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3468 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13398 times:

Slots on the lhr end?

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8375 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12957 times:
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Quoting pu (Reply 1):
Hitting at London now is smart while AA teters in chaos and from a market weak for AA anyway. London remains the big prize in Europe and Delta is slowly, slowly, making inroads. BA will keep their large Indian customer base transiting Heathrow for America, but now Delta captures a wonderful market in SEA going to Europe. LAX-LHR on the radar?

While Seattle to LHR would be a good route for DL to start since BA owns it alone, Pan AM used to fly it daily with a 747. DL is an anchor arline offering flights over both Oceans at SEA which has never happened before.

LAX to LHR is another matter for DL since four airline from the UK & USA fly it with up 7 flights daily. ANZ also flies it daily as part of Auckland to LHR. Delta would be better using an additional LHR slot for another JFK or Atlanta flight.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13602 posts, RR: 61
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12920 times:
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Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 8):
AS's presence seemed sort of out of place if nothing more than DL trying to stick it to American.

No, it's more about getting DOT approval by saying, "Lookee here, we've got ourselves a strong local partner in SEA who will also funnel traffic to/from our flights all over the PNW and West Coast."



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinedelta2ual From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12642 times:

Don't AS Board Room members have access to all DL Skyclubs? I don't think they have the same access to AA Admirals Lounge. That must be a big selling point for AS FF's with club membership, IMO.


From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11873 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 10):
While Seattle to LHR would be a good route for DL to start since BA owns it alone, Pan AM used to fly it daily with a 747.

Always a good rationale for opening a new route! Perhaps in their statistical analyses, the Delta network planners use a dummy variable, 0=Was served by Pan Am; 1=Was not served by Pan Am. Maybe they also have a variable for number of TATL 757 flights operated by UA.


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10427 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11722 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 11):
No, it's more about getting DOT approval by saying, "Lookee here, we've got ourselves a strong local partner in SEA who will also funnel traffic to/from our flights all over the PNW and West Coast."

Except that the DOT has said, in the original SEA-HND route case, that merely having a codeshare, with no control over the flights and schedules of the partner, is not a reason to award the route. Wouldn't that also apply to SEA-LHR?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25392 posts, RR: 49
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11637 times:

A SEA-LHR would not require any DOT approvals. Its an open-skies market. Simply need the appropriate slot at the other end.

For comments about LAX-LHR, Delta essentially already has flown this route recently. Air France tried it part of the JV back in 2008-9.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10427 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11561 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
A SEA-LHR would not require any DOT approvals. Its an open-skies market. Simply need the appropriate slot at the other end.

Oops.....forgot about that.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17508 posts, RR: 45
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11337 times:

What has changed since the last time they flew SEALHR that would fill up the plane this time?


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7615 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11184 times:

Because it was so successful for NW the last time around?

Quoting pu (Reply 1):
from a market weak for AA anyway.

LHR is not a weak market for AA.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6474 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11158 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):

Favorable slot times in at LHR will help fill up the plane this time


User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11160 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 4):
Well, it's been said before that AS is a codeshare whore...

I get the reference, because AS chooses to hang with anyone no matter what alliance they are in. But if you are a codeshare whore for the total number of codeshares you have then AS is no less so than any airline in a major alliance. AS has 15 airline partners whereas there are 28 in Star and 18 in Skyteam.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9426 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11079 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):

For comments about LAX-LHR, Delta essentially already has flown this route recently. Air France tried it part of the JV back in 2008-9.

and if it were to be done again it would benefit from the smaller aircraft Delta used. IMO the AF 777 on LAX-LHR was....a terrible idea.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):

hopefully better slot times and a smaller aircraft.



yep.
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11045 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
What has changed since the last time they flew SEALHR that would fill up the plane this time?

Presumably, if Delta actually goes through with it, the schedule will be improved. The original schedule was as follows:

NW 105 LHR 18:30 SEA 20:55
NW 106 SEA 22:20 LHR 16:15+1

This left almost no time for connection onto AS by the time NW 105 arrived from LHR and passengers went through customs. Additionally, the eastbound flight was considerably later than most people desired, not getting into London until late afternoon. The poor times and connectivity left the route to sink or swim as primarily an O&D route against a strong incumbent who offered superior AS connectivity (not to mention beyond-LHR connections) with a better schedule, a pretty tough task.

By comparison, here is BA's schedule on the route:

BA 49 LHR 15:10 SEA 16:40
BA 48 SEA 18:55 LHR 12:00+1

Obviously, much more sensible. The BA 49 arrival allows ample time to connect to most AS evening flights, and the BA 48 schedule still essentially allows a full work day in Seattle while arriving into London 4+ hours sooner. A better schedule for Delta won't solve the fact that BA is entrenched and offers beyond-LHR connectivity, but it at least would give them a much better shot.


User currently offlineEVA777SEA From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10893 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 18):

Because it was so successful for NW the last time around?

One thing to note is that back when NW tried it BA was running 13x to 14x weekly frequency year round going as high as 14x744 weekly during the summer. Ever since the great recession they have been running 7x744 weekly. Capacity on the route is down, and as noted above, NW used a horrible schedule. I think DL at least has a shot of making it work with a 763. Capacity on the route would still be down vs 4 or 5 years ago.


User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10420 times:

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 12):
Don't AS Board Room members have access to all DL Skyclubs? I don't think they have the same access to AA Admirals Lounge. That must be a big selling point for AS FF's with club membership, IMO.

AS Board Room members get the DL SC when flying on a DL flight.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
25 skipness1E : Not really, Air France had zero market presence from the UK end, something Delta would not be saddled with.
26 burnsie28 : It's not like they had a choice.
27 slcdeltarumd11 : Per seat costs will just be higher if they use a smaller plane and there is certainly lots of demand on the route. What would Delta use the A330? It
28 neveragain : "Past performance is no guarantee of future results."
29 burnsie28 : LHR is all flat bed, so either a 764 (which is typical for LHR) or a modded 763
30 Deltal1011man : *sigh* If what you say is true then Delta would start nearly every new route with a 777/333 or 744. 763 Well Good news is if say the wont they likely
31 rwsea : - better slot times, with connecting options on both ends - BA has cut capacity on the SEA route - DL now has a much larger international presence in
32 BoeingGuy : BA has used a 744 or occasionaly a 777 on the route. How have the cut capacity to SEA? If DL could get the LHR slots, would they start both SEA and S
33 mayor : I doubt it........I heard a rumor when last in SLC that DL is thinking of dropping the SLC-CDG flight and making SLC a strictly domestic hub. About t
34 steex : See:
35 jfk777 : I didn't say PA made money on the route, but people in Seattle did get a 747 with daily nonstops to LHR at a time when European flights from SEA were
36 BoeingGuy : Really? I thought the SLC-CDG flight did very well. That's what others on A.net have indicated.
37 questions : 767s... 330s... all this talk... on which routes is DL using its 777s?
38 Post contains links delta2ual : Or on an AS flight: "Delta Sky Club Board Room members must have a valid ticket for same day travel on Alaska Airlines or Delta Air Lines." Taken fro
39 sancho99504 : Sin, syd, dxb, Los, jnb, nrt,
40 dlramp4life : Indeed... Don't hear anything about the 777s So if SEA-LHR happens, what LHR or 763ER route is getting screwed or equipment swap.?
41 mayor : That's what I thought, too. However, at this point, it's still a rumor.
42 RWA380 : Yes with BA has connectivity with AS in SEA and their network at LHR, DL with AS in SEA and Skyteam at LHR. Maybe their improved relationship with AS
43 Deltal1011man : No. SLC will see AMS before London I believe. IF Delta will start a new Western US route to LHR it will be LAX (after SEA that is) down from mostly 2
44 context : Indeed, according to the Port Of Seattle BA's performance MOM for July 2012 is +3.16% and YOY +15.23% which is healthy growth for any route and may in
45 neveragain : With connections on the SEA end instead of LHR, it'd be no less targeted at O&D than the BA flight. Granted, the connections that BA is able to o
46 Roseflyer : DL has a lot of flexibility in the 763ER fleet. They had relatively low utilization last summer, so I don't think it is certain that any route would
47 Post contains images seabosdca : Once the mods are done, they should be able to add several daily 763ER roundtrips without any trouble.
48 MSPNWA : I believe the question is still whether or not SEA can support another LHR flight. For example it would be the smallest U.S. metro area with competit
49 Prost : I think we can all agree that British Airways is a strong competitor, but I think that there might be room for DL on this route as well. There are a
50 LJ : AFAIK the old LHR-LAX slot is still available (now used by KL)
51 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : If no other U.S. flagged carrier flies SEA-LHR it might fly under the confines of the "Fly America Act" http://www.ogc.doc.gov/ogc/fl/fald/itl/itlv14
52 dlramp4life : I thought there was no flex in the fleet since it is, I think the biggest work horse in the international fleet. But does explain why I have seen the
53 Viscount724 : Pan Am operated SEA-LHR daily in the summer for a few years but I can't recall them every operating daily year round. In the winter it was rarely mor
54 LAXtoATL : The 763ER is the backbone of the DL international fleet. But DL had a lot of slack in its international fleet last summer. Aside from the 747s, I bel
55 LAXintl : Actually BA flight fully qualifies under the act. Its an AA codeshare as part of their JV.
56 FlyASAGuy2005 : One thing's for sure, you don't make statements like this unless something is actively in the works. Makes me wonder where they plan on getting the sl
57 LAXintl : Regarding Pan Am, indeed it never operated daily year-round service between SEA-LHR. Summers were strong, but winter demand was much weaker and the ro
58 BoeingGuy : Is that still true given the much greater number of hi-tech, bio-tech, software, Microsoft, Boeing and other companies in there area? Seems like Seat
59 neveragain : The only people who would have a conclusive answer won't (or shouldn't) be posting it on here. The profitability of the route would depend on the fol
60 FlyASAGuy2005 : SLC is not the place for Delta to be running a prestige route. It's lasted this long so it must be doing okay.
61 BoeingGuy : I consider it in the category of secondary cities that's deserving, and can support, one non-stop a day to Europe. That would be like SLC, CVG, SAN,
62 DeltaMD90 : The AS partnership changes the dynamic a bit. Most of DL's expansion at SEA seems to be international, I bet if you rank cities by their internationa
63 LAXintl : Its all relative. Sure Seattle grew, but so did much of America in last 17 years. US GNP has virtually doubled during the period. So as I said its re
64 slcdeltarumd11 : Load Factors are very good on the SLC-CDG route it has been since the launch year. There is certainly premium traffic on the route and they sell busin
65 toobz : I concur with SLCDELTA...flights are full if not oversold most often. However, obviously that doesn't mean it's printing money. DL is very quick with
66 Post contains images Deltal1011man : Delta has made it clear they aren't flying trips to europe right now just to do it. If SLC-CDG was failing it would be gone. 10x in the winter.
67 neveragain : I'd sure as hell hope so. If not, that'd be a pretty big problem. Yes, because Delta has never run a TATL route for a couple of years, only to cancel
68 mayor : Is the state of Utah still subsidizing the route?
69 GentFromAlaska : Yes, the BA and AA code share takes care of that. My thoughts were more for DL using their own metal in that I understood this to be a DL thread.
70 FlyASAGuy2005 : LOL never made the claim.
71 Post contains images Deltal1011man : Ok. whatever you say. wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow. big talker...thats cool man. They have to be. Clearly it cant be doing well on its o
72 toobz : Yes, because Delta has never run a TATL route for a couple of years, only to cancel it later. DL is a way different beast now then in the past..trust
73 neveragain : Well if the alternative is to spell "wow" with 30 Os after banging your head against a wall (probably correlated), then, yes, I guess that makes me a
74 neveragain : I had to do a little research, but could not confirm that any subsidies are being paid by the State of Utah. It's my understanding that prior subsidi
75 DeltaMD90 : I see what you are saying... we are all armchair CEOs, and no one here has access to DL's secrets. But DL has made many cuts across the Atlantic in t
76 seabosdca : Look outside the window this evening to see why Seattle is not an ideal market. Leisure traffic absolutely collapses in the winter. Who wants to spen
77 neveragain : Thanks for trying to understand what I'm saying. But since it seems to be lost on everyone that I've never said that I think the route is unprofitabl
78 mayor : IIRC, this route was something that NW was working on with SLC, BEFORE the DL/NW merger.......or so I heard.
79 Deltal1011man : whatever. As i said. If it was doing as poorly as you say it would be gone. Sorry...I trust Richard Anderson a hell of a lot more than i do you. It i
80 ericaasen : But the rumor is that's only due to the lack of an available 330 for the summer. Supposedly DL would want a 330 on ORD-CDG for the summer, but they j
81 Deltal1011man : could be. No idea what kind of slack the 330 fleet will have this summer. (the 332s im sure will be flying like crazy. I'd be shocked if they couldn'
82 ericaasen : That's what I was thinking, plus I'm betting with interior mods still on going there won't be much slack in the 330/767 fleets for the summer.
83 FlyASAGuy2005 : Again, DL flying ORD-CDG was a temporary thing. Coordinated between DL and AF due to AF being short on the right a/c for the route. This is what was
84 neveragain : DeltaL1011man, read post 77. Then read it again. Then tell me how I said it was "doing so poorly" or a "junk route." Then if you think I did, read it
85 cokepopper : How is this a drop in Capacity when neither Delta or AF operated this flight last summer?
86 Bobloblaw : I doubt it will work. Nothing to connect beyond LHR. Long flight, BA will have the corporate traffic and connections. No different than when AA and UA
87 neveragain : I'll grant you that. I see these flights operated last summer. Not sure which routes that operated in summer 2011 aren't coming back that have been a
88 Post contains links neveragain : Just noted the AS-DL press release from last week stated 1,200 passengers interline between the 2 airlines in SEA each day. That works out to about 45
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