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Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101  
User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 455 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 14579 times:

Greetings A.netters, it gives me great pleasure in starting a thread for Indian Aviation on A.net for the first time.

As far as current developments are concerned, AI is finally shifting HQ to Delhi citing inflow of cash by renting out Nariman Point building and less expense in moving company officials back and forth between their HQ and the country's capital.

Does this have any implications on the airlines' operations?

Regds


If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
206 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 14505 times:

This will have limited operational implications.

However, it will piss off quite a few babus who now have to relocate..



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 14505 times:

Kerala pressing ahead with airline project to serve ME destinations by April 2013. It is not clear if they will be able to get a waiver from the ministry on the five year/20 aircraft rule.

If it ever materialises, Air Kerala has a better chance at long term profitably than AI as the equity share of state govt. will be less than 26%.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displaya...27.xml§ion=international&col=
Quote:
The Kerala Government is pressing ahead with a plan to materialise a popular demand to launch the state’s own airline — Air Kerala — after weighing the challenges currently faced by the global aviation sector, Ramesh Chennithala, the head of the state unit of the ruling Congress Party, said on Tuesday.

The Kerala government’s plan is to launch Air Kerala with five leased aircraft. Initially, the focus of operation will be destinations in the Middle East, which has a large concentration of expatriate Keralites.

.


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 14494 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 2):
Kerala pressing ahead with airline project to serve ME destinations by April 2013. It is not clear if they will be able to get a waiver from the ministry on the five year/20 aircraft rule.

If it ever materialises, Air Kerala has a better chance at long term profitably than AI as the equity share of state govt. will be less than 26%.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displaya...27.xml§ion=international&col=
Quote:
The Kerala Government is pressing ahead with a plan to materialise a popular demand to launch the state’s own airline — Air Kerala — after weighing the challenges currently faced by the global aviation sector, Ramesh Chennithala, the head of the state unit of the ruling Congress Party, said on Tuesday.

The Kerala government’s plan is to launch Air Kerala with five leased aircraft. Initially, the focus of operation will be destinations in the Middle East, which has a large concentration of expatriate Keralites.

It's an idiotic idea, and will probably flop.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 14484 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 3):
It's an idiotic idea, and will probably flop.

It is certainly less idiotic than bailing out AI. GOI is expected to spend nearly $6 billion to save AI with about 18,000 employees, which is about $300,000 per employee.

It will be smarter for GOI to offer a buyout to each AI employee to the tune of $200,000(avg. depending on position), and spend the rest on aviation infrastructure.

Btw, I agree that Air Kerala is likely to fail.

[Edited 2012-10-12 12:50:15]

User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 14473 times:

Air India is completely irrelevant. Just because GoI is wasting more money on them, that does not make it a good idea for govt to waste money on another carrier.

Regardless, IX which serves the routes which Air Kerala is looking at, is marginally profitable operationally. And that's exactly where it should be - the airline exists to provide a public service, not to make money hand over fist. Adding competition to that is just going to destroy the little mercies in our aviation sector...



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 14464 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 5):
Regardless, IX which serves the routes which Air Kerala is looking at, is marginally profitable operationally.

Does AI report separate official numbers for AI express? Do you have a link?

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 5):
And that's exactly where it should be - the airline exists to provide a public service, not to make money hand over fist.

Role of GOI should be to provide infrastructure, and not run an airline which needs to be subsidised and bailed out frequently.

India can do without the likes of AI, which drain GOI resources away from much needed investments in infrastructure, including aviation.


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14435 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 6):
Does AI report separate official numbers for AI express? Do you have a link?

The data is available but very fudged up for a variety of reasons - IX shares 25% of revenue with AI, and shares a little over 20% of costs...

AI hasn't published profitability data for IX since last year, so I unfortunately do not have a public link.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 6):

Role of GOI should be to provide infrastructure, and not run an airline which needs to be subsidised and bailed out frequently.

India can do without the likes of AI, which drain GOI resources away from much needed investments in infrastructure, including aviation.

That's a nice sentiment, but it doesn't actually mean anything. If GoI isn't wasting money on AI, they will be wasting that money on populist, destructive schemes like NREGA. What money is spent on infrastructure improvements will mostly end up in Swiss bank accounts - actual infrastructure change will be minimal at best.

Honestly, it's all irrelevant. GoI will do what it wants to do, and the taxpayer will be stuck with the bag at the end of the day anyway...



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14415 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 7):
What money is spent on infrastructure improvements will mostly end up in Swiss bank accounts - actual infrastructure change will be minimal at best.

I disagree. On my last visit to MAA, I saw a brand new international terminal(not operational yet). I am sure some portion of the budget went to politicians and bureaucrats, but at least MAA has a new terminal.

Btw, MAA is getting a new subway system. I know a sub-contactor in MAA who is involved with this project, and hear a lot of stories on how funds get diverted. However, it is nowhere near the "most" characterization that you have used.

I will take a new terminal or subway over AI any day.


User currently offlinevishaljo From India, joined Aug 2006, 446 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 14138 times:

At homebase
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vishal Jolapara - Indian Aviation Photographers



User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 14122 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 8):
I disagree. On my last visit to MAA, I saw a brand new international terminal(not operational yet). I am sure some portion of the budget went to politicians and bureaucrats, but at least MAA has a new terminal.

BLR, HYD, DEL, and (soon) CCU also have new terminals. Each of them could have been made for a fraction of the cost in a less corrupt country.

I'm not saying that infrastructure isn't coming up - it is... Just not at the rate and price-point which it needs to.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 8):
Btw, MAA is getting a new subway system. I know a sub-contactor in MAA who is involved with this project, and hear a lot of stories on how funds get diverted. However, it is nowhere near the "most" characterization that you have used.

Please keep in mind that every subcontractor will have lots of stories. When you add all of the diversions together, it's absolutely amazing that a subway system is being created in the first place! Only in India...

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 8):
I will take a new terminal or subway over AI any day.

But you don't have the choice between a new terminal or AI. You have the choice period - the politicians choose. And even if you were a politician with the choice, your choice would be which official's pocket to line, not the actual product which comes out of it...

The point you're missing sir is that at the end of the day, corruption and vote banks are what drives the system. Air India exists not because somebody thinks that it will help the people of India, or it will make money. AI exists to make money for the politicians in charge, to attract the vote banks (unions), to blackmail competitors ("we'll drop prices to unprofitable levels unless you send a cheque"), or to help them ("we'll drop this profitable route we developed so that you can take it over - cheque please").



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5318 posts, RR: 30
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 14084 times:

Maybe I missed the discussion, but what's the scoop on this?

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-...to-halt-flights-through-oct-dot-20

Quote:
MUMBAI, India (AP) — An Indian court Friday ordered the arrest of the highflying owner of Kingfisher Airlines for bouncing checks, adding to the beleaguered airline's woes as its struggles to resume flights that have been grounded since the start of the month.



What the...?
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 14085 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 11):
Maybe I missed the discussion, but what's the scoop on this?

He's been out of the country. Whenever he gets back, he'll get bail immediately.

*yawn* There are other things to be followed up on...



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5318 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 14062 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 12):

No doubt he has enough cash he's saved up from not paying employees to pay off whomever he needs.



What the...?
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 14042 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
No doubt he has enough cash he's saved up from not paying employees to pay off whomever he needs.

No, that's not it. Here in India, we have this concept called anticipatory bail, where you can get bail before you even get an arrest warrant against you. So even though this warrant is non-bailable, the anticipatory bail (if Mallya has filed for it) will allow him to remain scot free until the case is quietly dropped.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinegolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 714 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 14035 times:

Quoting vishaljo (Reply 9):

Great shot! I have a lot of memories from the Kalina OPS center. Is AI going to keep the maintenance facilities in BOM or is it going to move to DEL as well.   
I really resent the new DEL centric focus for AI. With BOM becoming increasinly irrelevant to AI, I am losing all interest in AI.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5318 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 14011 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):

Fantastic...sounds like the perfect gift for a man who has everything...except, (soon enough), an airline.



What the...?
User currently offlineAirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1607 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 13940 times:

Air India celebrating 80 years of commencing operations. Oct 15th 1932 was the first flight as Tata Airlines.

From wiki:

Quote:
On 15 October 1932, J.R.D. Tata flew a single-engined De Havilland Puss Moth carrying air mail (postal mail of Imperial Airways) from Karachi's Drigh Road Aerodrome to Bombay's Juhu Airstrip via Ahmedabad. The aircraft continued to Madras via Bellary piloted by Vintcent (aviator Nevill Vintcent)


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5318 posts, RR: 30
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 13930 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 14):

I was going to quote you in #16 but I missed.



What the...?
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2964 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 13893 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 3):
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 2):
Kerala pressing ahead with airline project to serve ME destinations by April 2013. It is not clear if they will be able to get a waiver from the ministry on the five year/20 aircraft rule.

If it ever materialises, Air Kerala has a better chance at long term profitably than AI as the equity share of state govt. will be less than 26%.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displaya...27.xml§ion=international&col=
Quote:
The Kerala Government is pressing ahead with a plan to materialise a popular demand to launch the state’s own airline — Air Kerala — after weighing the challenges currently faced by the global aviation sector, Ramesh Chennithala, the head of the state unit of the ruling Congress Party, said on Tuesday.

The Kerala government’s plan is to launch Air Kerala with five leased aircraft. Initially, the focus of operation will be destinations in the Middle East, which has a large concentration of expatriate Keralites.

It's an idiotic idea, and will probably flop.

And no exceptions should be made to the 5 year/20 aircraft rule. Either abolish it completely or enforce it strictly.



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 13746 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 19):
And no exceptions should be made to the 5 year/20 aircraft rule. Either abolish it completely or enforce it strictly.

GoAir has been lobbying hard to get it removed - I wouldn't be surprised to see it dropped in the near future.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinetayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 13648 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 19):
And no exceptions should be made to the 5 year/20 aircraft rule. Either abolish it completely or enforce it strictly.

Enforcement of this single rule has resulted in the demise of KFA now and Paramount in the past. Both the airlines were excellent biz models and had a fair chance to succeed had it not been for this one rule. Additionally NG bourghtoff Sahara only to stave off competition on the Intl sector, a right they had acquired and leveraged in valuation.

KFA went into the disasterous takeover of DN and ended up taking ownership of its poorly contracted leases and aircraft purchase with an eye on flying abroad, VM in his arrogance grounded the DN fleet to his owm misery. After Virgin if there was any airline brand that attracted more droolling punters, it was KFA. They could have slowly but surely taken all their orders and successfully deployed these new jets with the same pax that now fly BA, EK or SQ.

The squashing of this rule will result in more competiton by India based airline, rather than an EK, EY, SQ or QR dumping their excess capacity into India and killing Indian airlines. This will benefit Indian travellers, Indian workers and the Indian economy. The south of India has adequate pax catchment to develop multiple city pairs to neighbouring countries to break the stranglehold of the hubs in ME or SE-Asia.The same is true for the western belt, Vadodra,Surat, Pune, Nagpur, Ratnagiri all have the potential for flts to BAH, SHJ or RAK.LCC based there like Air Asia or Air Arabia are evidence to this fact.

I cannot understand how does anybody morally support this rule if they have a genuine interest in the development of Indian aviation. Get rid of this rule forthwith, unconditionally.



''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 13530 times:

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 21):
Enforcement of this single rule has resulted in the demise of KFA now and Paramount in the past. Both the airlines were excellent biz models and had a fair chance to succeed had it not been for this one rule. Additionally NG bourghtoff Sahara only to stave off competition on the Intl sector, a right they had acquired and leveraged in valuation.

WHAT?

This rule most certainly did not kill IT and I7. Their own stupidity and mismanagement did. IT had no business model, and probably wouldn't have survived regardless.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 13512 times:

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 21):
Get rid of this rule forthwith, unconditionally.

CM of Kerala is confident that Air Kerala will be given a waiver from the 5 year/20 aircraft rule. He has cited AI express as an example.

One can only hope that instead of a waiver, Air Kerala is accommodated by rescission of the current rule.


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 13503 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 23):
CM of Kerala is confident that Air Kerala will be given a waiver from the 5 year/20 aircraft rule. He has cited AI express as an example.

IX was given waiver because it was a wholly owned subsidiary of an airline which met requirements. Similarly, CD or S2 would be able to operate internationally if they didn't meet requirements.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 23):
One can only hope that instead of a waiver, Air Kerala is accommodated by rescission of the current rule.

Absolutely!



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
25 Post contains images HAWK21M : I thought it was bad management Strong possibility. Cool picture.....
26 Post contains links BLRAviation : Is GMR playing around with Mallya? Get a judge to order issue of non-bailable warrants, but then not pay the court fees so that the NBW is not issued.
27 Post contains links LAXDESI : Kingfisher Airlines settles GMR dues, warrants against Vijay Mallya withdrawn. http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...withdrawn/articleshow/16854770.c
28 Gr8Circle : I have a question about the terminal construction work on at BOM......are they going to build a new large terminal which will handle both domestic and
29 Post contains links tayaramecanici : DGCA rejects Kingfisher Airlines winter schedule; stock down ''The minister added that disgruntled and unpaid employees are a risk'' http://economicti
30 JOYA380B747 : Unless AI is back in profits, I don't see that happening, so if at all this were to happen it would be in a rather distant future.
31 Post contains images Gr8Circle : Why on earth would 9W want to merge with AI?
32 Post contains links LAXDESI : Latest data on market share. http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...s-further/articleshow/16866326.cms Quote: Low cost carrier IndiGo has maintained i
33 Post contains links lightsaber : Very interesting. This ties in with Winter flight planning: http://articles.economictimes.indiat...sher-airlines-flights-alliance-air From above: Ind
34 LAXDESI : A significant contraction in flights, but I expect passenger numbers not to decline as much as the current aggregate load factor is around 80%. Expec
35 Post contains images BLRAviation : I did an analysis of the Q2 FY2013 passenger numbers. Within the quarter itself (not year on year) i.e. July to September passenger numbers are down 1
36 Post contains links LAXDESI : Kingfisher Airlines stares at licence suspension. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...uspension/articleshow/16873079.cms Quote: Crisis-ridden Kingf
37 sankaps : Completely disagree. Indias domestic market is where most of the value is for Indian carriers. KFA had a poor businrss plan, poor management, more mo
38 HAWK21M : Airline owners need to get proper motivated & functioning managers to run their company.
39 tayaramecanici : The value proposition is enhanced with a Intl network, a purely domestic network is only profitable on the Trunk routes while others struggle KFA as
40 sankaps : Exactly. They had a solid strategy and business plan as well as sound management, all of the above did not happen accidentally. Until their final yea
41 Post contains links sankaps : A good write-up on the Kingfisher saga here (except the author evidently does not know the meaning of the word "pulchritude") http://www.tehelka.com/s
42 tayaramecanici : Well not many start-ups across the world can place an order for 100 aircrafts, unless offcource you are a Rakesh gangwal or a David neeleman. The poi
43 aeroblogger : I'm still not following your logic. Kingfisher didn't have to do anything. There is plenty of unexploited potential in the domestic market, as SG has
44 LAXDESI : Why wasn't IT able to get the ministry to drop the five year rule? Larger suitcases from Deccan and Jet?
45 Post contains links LAXDESI : Air India invites bids for 12 of its 23 floors in its Nariman Point building. Is it planning to keep the rest for its BOM staff? Do they need that man
46 aeroblogger : Many floors are already leased out... Probably. Or maybe they thought it would be more cost-effective to buy DN than get the rule changed, Who knows.
47 Post contains links LAXDESI : Air India offers five Boeing 777LRs for sale. http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...-for-sale/articleshow/16880243.cms The largest operators of 772LR
48 tayaramecanici : Surely, there is plenty of circumstantial evidence to suggest S2 had the blessings of S.Pawar. Amby valley the subroto roy project in Lonavala is rig
49 Gr8Circle : I get what you're hinting at......however, I'm not too sure of how familiar you are with Indian matters.....in my opinion, the owners of 9W wouldn't
50 caliatenza : Was AI even planning for LAX or SFO?
51 aeroblogger : 9W is owned by the same people who run AI. Surely they could come up with a deal for themselves...
52 sankaps : No. They simply perspective in their ego-driven desire to fly int'l. And you are conveniently forgetting the fact that int'l flights lost them even m
53 ojas : WHAT? It was by far the worst business model in the airline industry. Again incorrect, When VS left BOM, IT was not even invited to join OW. IT start
54 Cricket : Mainly to the Tata's - TCS is HQ'ed there Mallya had no business ordering A330's and A380's in 'anticipation' of the rules changing - which Mallya wa
55 HAWK21M : The end of good times.........sad for the employees..... True.
56 ojas : Effective W12 SQ and ET will code share on each other's flights between DEL and SIN. SQ is also expected to announce additional 5 weekly DEL - SIN soo
57 Post contains links tayaramecanici : It was no different from QR, the only diff being QR have an assortment of Intl girls and loads of LPG backing their model. KFA had 100% Indian birds
58 aeroblogger : If it weren't for the plight of the employees, I'd think it's quite funny. I wouldn't have thought it was humanly possible to squander so much of dad
59 Cricket : You don't want to get me started on Thiagrajan; the last media org I worked for had two folks who were 'fida' over him and believed his business plan
60 ojas : It is easy to make an impressive brand when you are least bothered about the cost structure or the spending discipline and the same thing is applicab
61 tayaramecanici : My opinion of Paramount was based on observing the likes of Flybe or LH operating the E-Jets here in EU. There are many T-2 cities in India with seiz
62 Post contains links sankaps : A good article on the rise and fall of Kingfisher in the Daily Mail, of all places! An excellent read. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome...-clean-m
63 Cricket : Mail Today - which provides all the news to the Daily Mail's India section. It is a JV between Daily Mail and India Today. Not quite true, SpiceJet i
64 HAWK21M : If the 5yr rule is withdrawn .... there could be better options for fresh starters vide FDI.
65 tayaramecanici : You are ''missing the woods for the trees'', Let me correct you here ALL INDIAN PVT CARRIERS did not start after 9/11, 9W and S2 started much before.
66 BLRAviation : Ajit Singh has specifically ruled out FDI to start-ups. He has to protect Jet and IndiGo. I do not think 5 year rule is being withdrawn. GoAir has as
67 Post contains links LAXDESI : Govt to seek review of steep airport charges. http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...t-charges/articleshow/16909081.cms Quote: A massive 12.4% slump i
68 Cricket : I meant all the new carriers, my bad! 9W and S2 started in 1991-93 with many others. My point is basic, there have been bad business plans in the pas
69 HAWK21M : Whats the progress on the Navi Mumbai airport.....Is there any work in progress apart from the signboard.....
70 Lutfi : So, what is the latest on Indigo? Will they be one of the winners/ survivors in Indian aviation?
71 HAWK21M : Indigo is currently in profits in the Pax category.... Bluedart/DHL Air is in profits in the freighter category.... The rest are still trying to get
72 tayaramecanici : I have no doubts about excess capacity in Dom sector, based on this one report. FR at the start of the new millenium had 40% of it pax traffic from I
73 Post contains images ojas : Couldn't agree more.
74 JoeCanuck : Again, I have to thank you guys for provided us with the inside scoop on the ever fascinating Indian airline industry. Before tuning in to these threa
75 tayaramecanici : Fascinating is the word. Here i would like to add a point in favour of India. The ME carriers are wholly dependent on the follies of their sub-contin
76 Post contains links caliatenza : http://lifestyle.in.msn.com/travel/a...ticle.aspx?cp-documentid=251150753 "Turkey seeks more destination rights for its airlines" looks interesting. H
77 Cricket : Hey, EK is for all intents and purposes India's national carrier, because successive ministers have just given them more and more and more...
78 sankaps : I was not aware of this. Are you sure? Do you have a link for this?
79 HAWK21M : The salaries offered are so poor that no one would consider it unless they have no option.
80 tayaramecanici : The salaries offered to airline staff in India were the same as that in EU, infact salaries have been reduced by avg of 10% in EU due to the recessio
81 Post contains links aeroblogger : http://www.firstpost.com/economy/fdi...-promoters-and-bankers-470382.html
82 sankaps : Thanks. Seems like avery shortsighted move. Would be good if Air Asia, Tiger, Jetstar etc can come in via a JV with the Tatas or some such body. Alwa
83 JOYA380B747 : If India gives TK what they want it will get even worse for the Indian aviation. TK is a strong competitor to LH and EK and has the power to snatch t
84 caliatenza : well that should be more incentive for Indian Carriers to step it up then. I would gladly fly AI or 9W but they dont connect to the West Coast of the
85 Post contains images JOYA380B747 : Don't we all want that....? But for the Government, ATF prices, airport taxes, etc how can they.
86 Post contains links Cricket : First Sanjay Aggarwal claimed that everybody would be back at work on Friday, but the employees are now saying that he is a liar http://economictimes.
87 HAWK21M : KF will need to reduce staff....what will transpire then...... Not all are high payers out here.....Except for a freighter airline with older/odd flee
88 Post contains links LAXDESI : SpiceJet To Order 30-40 737MAX? (by LAXDESI Oct 24 2012 in Civil Aviation)
89 HAWK21M : Is there a demand for so many Aircraft currently....
90 777way : Martinair Cargo are operating to BOM twice weekly 747F their third destination.
91 Post contains links LAXDESI : Virgin Atlantic open to buying into Indian Airlines: Sir Richard Branson. I wonder if GOI would be interested in some sort of structured bankruptcy fo
92 JOYA380B747 : The 737Max won't be available currently would it.... but yes in the coming years the demand will be there for sure.
93 blr380 : Probably makes sense since they are restarting BOM route. Also plans to add BLR and HYD pending approvals. Note that BLR and BOM were x-IT routes to
94 JOYA380B747 : On that topic, may I ask what happened with the KF slots at LHR? If they are still there could they go to VS?
95 caliatenza : wouldnt mind VS at BLR. Gives people another option to the US and Europe.
96 Post contains links Cricket : The Delhi Airport Express finds itself in a spot of bother with the operator wanting out of the deal claiming they make a huge loss every month. The i
97 Post contains images HAWK21M : But can the quantity of demand out here justify a good business decision..... Cavok air AN74.....at VABB......what sector does it operate.
98 JOYA380B747 : I think they did not connect to 1D because in subsequent years the plan of DIAL is to shift all domestic operations to T3 and shift international ops
99 aeroblogger : IT still has their slot pairs at LHR.[Edited 2012-10-27 05:50:14]
100 Post contains links LAXDESI : SilkAir launches first direct flight between Singapore and Visakhapatnam. Is there sufficient traffic between Visakhapatnam and any of the Gulf destin
101 Post contains links LAXDESI : Indigo expects to be profitable this fiscal year, and expects other carriers to be profitable too. http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...oo-indigo/ar
102 Cricket : Half? I would guess the number is closer to 75% after KFA shut down, even though AI and 9W use DEL as a major domestic hub, DEL is 6E's top hub, last
103 Post contains links LAXDESI : UAE-based Etihad Airways launches Abu Dhabi-Ahmedabad flight. I am sure this flight will capture some of the NA/UK-Gujarat. http://www1.economictimes.
104 Post contains links LAXDESI : Dragonair launches four-times-weekly Kolkata-Hong Kong service. http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...g-service/articleshow/17076000.cms Quote: The c
105 LAXDESI : CCU-HKG-JFK is about 700nm longer(2 hours) than CCU-DXB-JFK. So not a deal breaker. CCU-HKG-LAX/SFO is about 1300nm shorter(3 hours) than CCU-DXB-LAX/
106 Cricket : Sad, I flew Y on a 9W 77W DEL-LHR-DEL and the service and seats were great, moving to 10 across is very passenger unfriendly, although it ought to he
107 Post contains images JOYA380B747 : Nothing for EK to worry about if they are giving cheaper fares. For Y passengers thats what matters rather than saving 3 hrs. Plus CCU is very much u
108 Post contains links Cricket : The latest in the KFA/IT saga Kingfisher will not fly if it doesn't bring in capital by November 30: SBI New Delhi: State Bank of India (SBI), the lea
109 Post contains links JOYA380B747 : Just out of curiosity, what was a KF 332 doing in ZRH in June '12 as shown in the following pic? http://www.airliners.net/photo/Swiss...d=caa9d9329813
110 VIDP : They are stored in ZRH
111 Post contains images Heavierthanair : G´day Passing through last week I saw three of them parked in ZRH. Presumably awaiting a new owner. Cheers Peter
112 viasa : Three of the five former KF A330s were stored in ZRH - the other two were in BOD.
113 Post contains links Vimanav : Civil Aviation Minister Ajit Singh approved Traffic Rights for Indian Carriers for Three Seasons Beginning Winter 2012; Introduction of new internatio
114 JOYA380B747 : Quoting from the link: Apart from DEL-SYD/MEL, BOM-NBO, and flights to SGN I have no idea about other routes. I don't even suppose most of these route
115 Cricket : SpiceJet's 737 for a five hour flight? But I expect both Saigon and Macau to be popular routes. 9W's routes to Jakarta and Tashkent are a plus. But no
116 777way : AI has potential for pilgrim traffic and possibly labour too on this.
117 Post contains images Nimish : I wonder if 6E will get a separate presser for their expansion plans ? What happened to QR in this round of expansions? Surely they need additional f
118 ojas : Now that Qatar will join OW, there could be a rise in demand for passengers flying Doha and beyond. QR connects to 12 cities in India and have unused
119 ojas : Just for the record, India - DXB Bilateral frequencies as of today stands: Indian carriers: 200 flights per week Dubai Carriers: 194 flights per week
120 Post contains links LAXDESI : 'Full-fledged integration of AI, IA in three to four months'. http://zeenews.india.com/business/ne...in-three-to-four-months_64179.html Quote: "There
121 HAWK21M : Getting the Employees to co-Exist........Biggest challenge....
122 tayaramecanici : At what cost ? Ojas, i've lived in the ME, After a while you get dazzled by the razz-ma-tazz. When i left the ME, Fuel was doing $18/bl and Qatar was
123 tayaramecanici : Just for the Stats, can you also add the Aircraft types, per flt each week, Dubai and India. And Whilst you are at it why don't you also give the SEA
124 Post contains links RobK : I was listening to Mumbai working the traffic across the Arabian Sea earlier today and JAI556 got a bit of a grilling for failing to give his AIREP in
125 Post contains images JOYA380B747 : Haha that was real hammering in desi style.
126 Post contains links Cricket : Firstly, Happy Diwali to everyone here, one of my long time wishes is to land at DEL on Diwali evening - preferably on 27 or 28. Last night they were
127 JOYA380B747 : Though there may be regulations against use of high-reaching fireworks near runway approaches, I seriously doubt they could cause any harm to an aircr
128 Post contains images HAWK21M : Quite a few of that on 127.90 too KFA 3rd salary before Diwali has been unsucessfull sadly......
129 Cricket : I was genuinely surprised they paid the first two... lets see what happens now, in any case it is unlikely that Kingfisher will ever take to the skie
130 HAWK21M : As long as the stranded Aircraft are returned back to the lesors....& not dumped around the country aka 1997-98.
131 Cricket : At least half the 15-odd planes registered to KFA still remaining in India are not in a flyaway condition, lessors would love some of them back (not
132 Post contains links and images vishaljo : AI 787 Economy Class: View Large View MediumPhoto © Vishal Jolapara - Indian Aviation Photographers
133 ojas : According to the GDS, AI will start daily DEL - DAC services from 03rd December 2012 using an A320 The schedule is as follows AI 231 DEL - DAC 0545 08
134 VIDP : Finally paid the same ... It will be nothing less than a miracle if KFA bounces back.
135 Cricket : Wasn't the schedule to pay a few more months before the end of the year?
136 Gr8circle : AI seem to be slowly building the DEL hub......hopefully, so will 9W.....looks like DEL has some chance of becoming an important regional hub.......
137 HAWK21M : Looks like VJM is hoping for a Foreign Investor after his Initiall Investment & a fresh start up Indian Investor & then VJM will sell out &am
138 ojas : Effective Dec 10th SG will launch daily flights to COK from DXB SG 017 COK - DXB 1710 1950 4hrs 10mins SG 018 DXB - COK 2045 0225+1 4hrs 10mins Daily
139 ytz : Exactly why I'm gaining interest in 9W and hoping they get into Star.
140 Post contains images golfradio : Amen.
141 PM : Good grief. My office is under the flight path going into BLR. An AI 787 has just flown over on approach. Cool.
142 Post contains links ojas : Spicejet To Launch Operations To Saudi Arabia (by ojas Nov 22 2012 in Civil Aviation) Daily DEL - RUH.
143 Gr8Circle : Will BOM's importance change with the completion of the new terminal (which seems to be quite impressive).....?
144 JOYA380B747 : Even if this maybe an absurd argument - Does the seat caps, limited bilaterals between India and rest of the world mean that there are less people fly
145 aeroblogger : In AI's network, the impact will be marginal at best. AI is sensibly trying to build its DEL hub to critical mass at this point, so adding BOM connec
146 JOYA380B747 : rough e.g. If 1000 people wanted to go DEL-SIN in a year, but there are only 600 seats on all flights (direct and indirect), the other 400 people are
147 Cricket : I'm sure the new T2 will help Mumbai, there was a Nat Geo show on it as well, but no mater how impressive the terminal is, BOM is hamstrung by space,
148 aeroblogger : No. Loads to/from India are not anywhere near 100%. More flexible bilaterals would allow more competition, driving down fares, which would stimulate
149 VIDP : Well said what we also need to understand that people staying in southern india who were more reliant on Mumbai Airport for their international trave
150 HAWK21M : and taking Forever to complete......
151 Post contains links lightsaber : Does this mean anything? Naresh Goyal promoted Jet airways has reason to cheer as the civil aviation ministry might give them permission to join Star
152 aeroblogger : Nope.
153 Vimanav : In the India-Oman bilaterals, 16016 seats granted to Oman (an v.v.) divided as follows: to DEL/BOM/HYD/MAA - 14 flights each per week BLR/CCJ/JAI/COK/
154 AirIndia : Good news for WY as it will help their expansion plans. Work on the New terminal in MCT is cuurently in full swing.
155 Cricket : So will Indigo or Spicejet get any new services to MCT?
156 ojas : From the Indian side at present only 6E has indicated plans to expand to MCT with BOM - MCT going daily from current 4 weekly and new daily flights fr
157 ojas : According to the GDS, effective Jan 2013, EY will increase flights on the AUH - CCJ route from 3 weekly to daily. With this EY will have 63 weekly fli
158 Post contains links ojas : http://www.menafn.com/menafn/1093584...kly-Gulf-flights-to-112-two-months 6E is to expand operations out of Dubai. IXE, CCJ and TRV will be added from
159 HAWK21M : Whats the news of KFA. What about the salaries of AI & 9W.......
160 Post contains links sankaps : From the Times of India: Kolkata only major metro to show increase in domestic air traffic year-over-year; Bangalore shows steepest decline. See "Bang
161 JOYA380B747 : I expect both domestic and intl traffic increase much more through the next Spring at CCU. That is if all goes to plan with the Jan opening of the ne
162 HAWK21M : Just confirmed I heard ........... 24% stake by Etihad in 9W.......Is that true.....[Edited 2012-12-03 02:53:12]
163 Post contains links Cricket : Great for 9W; I guess Etihad will create an alliance for their own(ed) Jet to sell a 24% stake to EY for Rs 1600 crore. Jet's valued at Rs 6500 crore,
164 HAWK21M : 24% may not give voting rights.....I think 26% would.....can anyone confirm.....
165 Cricket : They may got get a board seat and may not be able to block anything the board decides, however according to SEBI's code, if a company acquires over 2
166 ojas : With respect to the the EY - 9W partnership, it is really going down the path where EY is going to make 9W to suit their interest. After all EY is giv
167 Post contains links Cricket : In more 9W news, they are planning to get five ATR 72-600 aircraft. I wonder where they will use them, while some of the ATR's in their fleet are not
168 JoeCanuck : It seems to me that there is a lot of high/hot airports in India that are in use for commercial air service. Do the Q400's of Spicejet give them some
169 aeroblogger : SG appears to be reasonably happy with the performance, but it seems like they'd be better off with the ATR.
170 777way : RAK Airways plan to ass two new destinations in India, any idea which could they be?
171 karan69 : The morning slots are the prime traget connections to JFK/IAD/ORD/YYZ/LHR/CDG/BRU/MXP/FRA/MUC/MAN/BER /GCC What was missing in EYs Armour was no conn
172 HAWK21M : Heard the famous LG issues continue with the Q400s.
173 Post contains links JOYA380B747 : http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...-delivery/articleshow/17493166.cms GoI seems to be on track with rest of the Dreamliner deliveries. Also with t
174 aeroblogger : won't happen before S13 sked
175 Post contains links ojas : Spicejet announces CAN Spicejet To Start Operations To China (DEL - CAN) (by ojas Dec 6 2012 in Civil Aviation)
176 Cricket : Actually, more keen; from a travel perspective at least; on when SG opens DEL-SGN
177 ojas : 6E's first international route to be chopped from March 2013, BOM - SIN. The flights are not for sale from March.
178 Post contains links ojas : Effective Jan 3 9W will start IXE - DXB 9W 532/531. Flights will operate 6 weekly (Except Sa) http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_disp.asp?n_id=157679
179 Cricket : Not enough O&D traffic to justify the route? Surprised though, would have expected SIN routes to do well.
180 sankaps : I don't think loads are the issue. I would suspect it is difficult, for structural reasons, to get the CASK on these mid-haul international routes do
181 sankaps : Three days of silence? What happened to this group?
182 JoeCanuck : I'm thinking exhaustion.
183 Post contains links and images JOYA380B747 : http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...000-crore/articleshow/17567445.cms I hope EY is thinking straight with buying stake in KF. Also this might comp
184 HAWK21M : I'm trying to understand what EY is thinking......
185 Post contains links BLRAviation : It is the cover story in today's Bangalore Mirror (part of Times of India group, like ET). http://www.bangaloremirror.com/artic...ihad-set-to-invest-
186 sankaps : Either the have gotten the creditors (incl banks) to agree to a 50-75% haircut on their dues, or they have more money than brains. Or it could just b
187 art : Don't really know anything about this but if a bad business model coupled with bad management is the root cause of KF's financial failure, would EY be
188 LJ : Probably not if they only buy the 24% stake, but if they combine this with loans towards 9W , EY can make 9W depend on the heavily (see what they do
189 Post contains links LAXDESI : 9W To Convert 788 Order To 789? (by LAXDESI Dec 11 2012 in Civil Aviation)
190 sankaps : "A formal announcement about the deal could be made around 18 December, the birthday of Kingfisher chairman Mallya, the newspaper reported". If this w
191 HAWK21M : The Dreamliner was at V11 last night at VABB.....Any reason.I thought it avoided BOM....
192 Post contains links LAXDESI : I was hoping that Turkish Airlines would add MAA by 2013. TK is being smart by supporting AI as it can only help it get more bilateral rights. http://
193 Post contains links LAXDESI : With TK making some positive noise on behalf of AI, and a possible deal between EY and 9W, AI may have a better shot at joining STAR. http://articles.
194 Post contains links JOYA380B747 : 9W has inducted their first A333. Three more to come this fiscal. http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...-in-fleet/articleshow/17587811.cms
195 caliatenza : Why not BLR?
196 aeroblogger : HYD and CCU don't have Star Alliance service westbound, while BLR/MAA/BOM/DEL/PNQ do. BLR and MAA are both on the list of routes TK is planning to la
197 Karan69 : TK and SA were the only two airlines who voted in favor of AI for star alliance Karan
198 JOYA380B747 : TK will sure get lot of GoI support and perks if they help AI get into Star.
199 Post contains links LAXDESI : Bad idea as most Indian carriers are losing money at current fares. If fare control is a goal, then It is always better to provide a direct subsidy th
200 Post contains images aeroblogger : Caught on the spot, he must have come up with some bullshit excuse. He can't tell the truth about why the government funds AI.
201 aeroblogger : A recent letter by Rohit Nandan to AI employees:
202 Post contains images HAWK21M : How about a christmas present to the AI employees in terms of salaries due.......
203 Post contains links Cricket : Nice story by my friend Tarun on EY's dalliances with IT and 9W. Sorry if this sounds sexist, but this is like two girls competing for the affections
204 Post contains images jayeshrulz : Hi Mel, It operates AI 983 at times BOM-DXB and then flies DXB-DEL as AI 996. Its for crew training and familiarization
205 HAWK21M : Thanks....What was Interesting apart from the Tapered Wing look was the Anticollision light flash....Very Different.
206 Post contains links LAXDESI : Since no one has stepped forward to start a new thread, I am going to do the honors. I hope others will step up in future and take collective ownershi
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