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Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101  
User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 504 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 14925 times:

Greetings A.netters, it gives me great pleasure in starting a thread for Indian Aviation on A.net for the first time.

As far as current developments are concerned, AI is finally shifting HQ to Delhi citing inflow of cash by renting out Nariman Point building and less expense in moving company officials back and forth between their HQ and the country's capital.

Does this have any implications on the airlines' operations?

Regds


If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
206 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 14851 times:

This will have limited operational implications.

However, it will piss off quite a few babus who now have to relocate..



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 14851 times:

Kerala pressing ahead with airline project to serve ME destinations by April 2013. It is not clear if they will be able to get a waiver from the ministry on the five year/20 aircraft rule.

If it ever materialises, Air Kerala has a better chance at long term profitably than AI as the equity share of state govt. will be less than 26%.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displaya...27.xml§ion=international&col=
Quote:
The Kerala Government is pressing ahead with a plan to materialise a popular demand to launch the state’s own airline — Air Kerala — after weighing the challenges currently faced by the global aviation sector, Ramesh Chennithala, the head of the state unit of the ruling Congress Party, said on Tuesday.

The Kerala government’s plan is to launch Air Kerala with five leased aircraft. Initially, the focus of operation will be destinations in the Middle East, which has a large concentration of expatriate Keralites.

.


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 14840 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 2):
Kerala pressing ahead with airline project to serve ME destinations by April 2013. It is not clear if they will be able to get a waiver from the ministry on the five year/20 aircraft rule.

If it ever materialises, Air Kerala has a better chance at long term profitably than AI as the equity share of state govt. will be less than 26%.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displaya...27.xml§ion=international&col=
Quote:
The Kerala Government is pressing ahead with a plan to materialise a popular demand to launch the state’s own airline — Air Kerala — after weighing the challenges currently faced by the global aviation sector, Ramesh Chennithala, the head of the state unit of the ruling Congress Party, said on Tuesday.

The Kerala government’s plan is to launch Air Kerala with five leased aircraft. Initially, the focus of operation will be destinations in the Middle East, which has a large concentration of expatriate Keralites.

It's an idiotic idea, and will probably flop.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 14830 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 3):
It's an idiotic idea, and will probably flop.

It is certainly less idiotic than bailing out AI. GOI is expected to spend nearly $6 billion to save AI with about 18,000 employees, which is about $300,000 per employee.

It will be smarter for GOI to offer a buyout to each AI employee to the tune of $200,000(avg. depending on position), and spend the rest on aviation infrastructure.

Btw, I agree that Air Kerala is likely to fail.

[Edited 2012-10-12 12:50:15]

User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 14819 times:

Air India is completely irrelevant. Just because GoI is wasting more money on them, that does not make it a good idea for govt to waste money on another carrier.

Regardless, IX which serves the routes which Air Kerala is looking at, is marginally profitable operationally. And that's exactly where it should be - the airline exists to provide a public service, not to make money hand over fist. Adding competition to that is just going to destroy the little mercies in our aviation sector...



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 14810 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 5):
Regardless, IX which serves the routes which Air Kerala is looking at, is marginally profitable operationally.

Does AI report separate official numbers for AI express? Do you have a link?

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 5):
And that's exactly where it should be - the airline exists to provide a public service, not to make money hand over fist.

Role of GOI should be to provide infrastructure, and not run an airline which needs to be subsidised and bailed out frequently.

India can do without the likes of AI, which drain GOI resources away from much needed investments in infrastructure, including aviation.


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 14781 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 6):
Does AI report separate official numbers for AI express? Do you have a link?

The data is available but very fudged up for a variety of reasons - IX shares 25% of revenue with AI, and shares a little over 20% of costs...

AI hasn't published profitability data for IX since last year, so I unfortunately do not have a public link.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 6):

Role of GOI should be to provide infrastructure, and not run an airline which needs to be subsidised and bailed out frequently.

India can do without the likes of AI, which drain GOI resources away from much needed investments in infrastructure, including aviation.

That's a nice sentiment, but it doesn't actually mean anything. If GoI isn't wasting money on AI, they will be wasting that money on populist, destructive schemes like NREGA. What money is spent on infrastructure improvements will mostly end up in Swiss bank accounts - actual infrastructure change will be minimal at best.

Honestly, it's all irrelevant. GoI will do what it wants to do, and the taxpayer will be stuck with the bag at the end of the day anyway...



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 14761 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 7):
What money is spent on infrastructure improvements will mostly end up in Swiss bank accounts - actual infrastructure change will be minimal at best.

I disagree. On my last visit to MAA, I saw a brand new international terminal(not operational yet). I am sure some portion of the budget went to politicians and bureaucrats, but at least MAA has a new terminal.

Btw, MAA is getting a new subway system. I know a sub-contactor in MAA who is involved with this project, and hear a lot of stories on how funds get diverted. However, it is nowhere near the "most" characterization that you have used.

I will take a new terminal or subway over AI any day.


User currently offlinevishaljo From India, joined Aug 2006, 473 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 14484 times:

At homebase
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vishal Jolapara - Indian Aviation Photographers



User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 14468 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 8):
I disagree. On my last visit to MAA, I saw a brand new international terminal(not operational yet). I am sure some portion of the budget went to politicians and bureaucrats, but at least MAA has a new terminal.

BLR, HYD, DEL, and (soon) CCU also have new terminals. Each of them could have been made for a fraction of the cost in a less corrupt country.

I'm not saying that infrastructure isn't coming up - it is... Just not at the rate and price-point which it needs to.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 8):
Btw, MAA is getting a new subway system. I know a sub-contactor in MAA who is involved with this project, and hear a lot of stories on how funds get diverted. However, it is nowhere near the "most" characterization that you have used.

Please keep in mind that every subcontractor will have lots of stories. When you add all of the diversions together, it's absolutely amazing that a subway system is being created in the first place! Only in India...

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 8):
I will take a new terminal or subway over AI any day.

But you don't have the choice between a new terminal or AI. You have the choice period - the politicians choose. And even if you were a politician with the choice, your choice would be which official's pocket to line, not the actual product which comes out of it...

The point you're missing sir is that at the end of the day, corruption and vote banks are what drives the system. Air India exists not because somebody thinks that it will help the people of India, or it will make money. AI exists to make money for the politicians in charge, to attract the vote banks (unions), to blackmail competitors ("we'll drop prices to unprofitable levels unless you send a cheque"), or to help them ("we'll drop this profitable route we developed so that you can take it over - cheque please").



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5464 posts, RR: 30
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 14430 times:

Maybe I missed the discussion, but what's the scoop on this?

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-...to-halt-flights-through-oct-dot-20

Quote:
MUMBAI, India (AP) — An Indian court Friday ordered the arrest of the highflying owner of Kingfisher Airlines for bouncing checks, adding to the beleaguered airline's woes as its struggles to resume flights that have been grounded since the start of the month.



What the...?
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 14431 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 11):
Maybe I missed the discussion, but what's the scoop on this?

He's been out of the country. Whenever he gets back, he'll get bail immediately.

*yawn* There are other things to be followed up on...



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5464 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 14408 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 12):

No doubt he has enough cash he's saved up from not paying employees to pay off whomever he needs.



What the...?
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 14388 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
No doubt he has enough cash he's saved up from not paying employees to pay off whomever he needs.

No, that's not it. Here in India, we have this concept called anticipatory bail, where you can get bail before you even get an arrest warrant against you. So even though this warrant is non-bailable, the anticipatory bail (if Mallya has filed for it) will allow him to remain scot free until the case is quietly dropped.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently onlinegolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 766 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 14381 times:

Quoting vishaljo (Reply 9):

Great shot! I have a lot of memories from the Kalina OPS center. Is AI going to keep the maintenance facilities in BOM or is it going to move to DEL as well.   
I really resent the new DEL centric focus for AI. With BOM becoming increasinly irrelevant to AI, I am losing all interest in AI.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5464 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 14357 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):

Fantastic...sounds like the perfect gift for a man who has everything...except, (soon enough), an airline.



What the...?
User currently offlineAirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 14286 times:

Air India celebrating 80 years of commencing operations. Oct 15th 1932 was the first flight as Tata Airlines.

From wiki:

Quote:
On 15 October 1932, J.R.D. Tata flew a single-engined De Havilland Puss Moth carrying air mail (postal mail of Imperial Airways) from Karachi's Drigh Road Aerodrome to Bombay's Juhu Airstrip via Ahmedabad. The aircraft continued to Madras via Bellary piloted by Vintcent (aviator Nevill Vintcent)


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5464 posts, RR: 30
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 14276 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 14):

I was going to quote you in #16 but I missed.



What the...?
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 14239 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 3):
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 2):
Kerala pressing ahead with airline project to serve ME destinations by April 2013. It is not clear if they will be able to get a waiver from the ministry on the five year/20 aircraft rule.

If it ever materialises, Air Kerala has a better chance at long term profitably than AI as the equity share of state govt. will be less than 26%.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displaya...27.xml§ion=international&col=
Quote:
The Kerala Government is pressing ahead with a plan to materialise a popular demand to launch the state’s own airline — Air Kerala — after weighing the challenges currently faced by the global aviation sector, Ramesh Chennithala, the head of the state unit of the ruling Congress Party, said on Tuesday.

The Kerala government’s plan is to launch Air Kerala with five leased aircraft. Initially, the focus of operation will be destinations in the Middle East, which has a large concentration of expatriate Keralites.

It's an idiotic idea, and will probably flop.

And no exceptions should be made to the 5 year/20 aircraft rule. Either abolish it completely or enforce it strictly.



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 14092 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 19):
And no exceptions should be made to the 5 year/20 aircraft rule. Either abolish it completely or enforce it strictly.

GoAir has been lobbying hard to get it removed - I wouldn't be surprised to see it dropped in the near future.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinetayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 13994 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 19):
And no exceptions should be made to the 5 year/20 aircraft rule. Either abolish it completely or enforce it strictly.

Enforcement of this single rule has resulted in the demise of KFA now and Paramount in the past. Both the airlines were excellent biz models and had a fair chance to succeed had it not been for this one rule. Additionally NG bourghtoff Sahara only to stave off competition on the Intl sector, a right they had acquired and leveraged in valuation.

KFA went into the disasterous takeover of DN and ended up taking ownership of its poorly contracted leases and aircraft purchase with an eye on flying abroad, VM in his arrogance grounded the DN fleet to his owm misery. After Virgin if there was any airline brand that attracted more droolling punters, it was KFA. They could have slowly but surely taken all their orders and successfully deployed these new jets with the same pax that now fly BA, EK or SQ.

The squashing of this rule will result in more competiton by India based airline, rather than an EK, EY, SQ or QR dumping their excess capacity into India and killing Indian airlines. This will benefit Indian travellers, Indian workers and the Indian economy. The south of India has adequate pax catchment to develop multiple city pairs to neighbouring countries to break the stranglehold of the hubs in ME or SE-Asia.The same is true for the western belt, Vadodra,Surat, Pune, Nagpur, Ratnagiri all have the potential for flts to BAH, SHJ or RAK.LCC based there like Air Asia or Air Arabia are evidence to this fact.

I cannot understand how does anybody morally support this rule if they have a genuine interest in the development of Indian aviation. Get rid of this rule forthwith, unconditionally.



''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 13876 times:

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 21):
Enforcement of this single rule has resulted in the demise of KFA now and Paramount in the past. Both the airlines were excellent biz models and had a fair chance to succeed had it not been for this one rule. Additionally NG bourghtoff Sahara only to stave off competition on the Intl sector, a right they had acquired and leveraged in valuation.

WHAT?

This rule most certainly did not kill IT and I7. Their own stupidity and mismanagement did. IT had no business model, and probably wouldn't have survived regardless.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 13858 times:

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 21):
Get rid of this rule forthwith, unconditionally.

CM of Kerala is confident that Air Kerala will be given a waiver from the 5 year/20 aircraft rule. He has cited AI express as an example.

One can only hope that instead of a waiver, Air Kerala is accommodated by rescission of the current rule.


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 13849 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 23):
CM of Kerala is confident that Air Kerala will be given a waiver from the 5 year/20 aircraft rule. He has cited AI express as an example.

IX was given waiver because it was a wholly owned subsidiary of an airline which met requirements. Similarly, CD or S2 would be able to operate internationally if they didn't meet requirements.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 23):
One can only hope that instead of a waiver, Air Kerala is accommodated by rescission of the current rule.

Absolutely!



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 25, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 13839 times:

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 21):
Enforcement of this single rule has resulted in the demise of KFA now and Paramount in the past. Both the airlines were excellent biz models and had a fair chance to succeed had it not been for this one rule.

I thought it was bad management  
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 20):
GoAir has been lobbying hard to get it removed - I wouldn't be surprised to see it dropped in the near future.

Strong possibility.

Quoting vishaljo (Reply 9):
GoAir has been lobbying hard to get it removed - I wouldn't be surprised to see it dropped in the near future.

Cool picture.....



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineBLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 343 posts, RR: 14
Reply 26, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 13741 times:

Is GMR playing around with Mallya? Get a judge to order issue of non-bailable warrants, but then not pay the court fees so that the NBW is not issued. http://www.livemint.com/Companies/TI...t-Mallya-over-bounced-cheques.html

Sort holding a Damocles sword over the Big Boss?



I am on Twitter @BLRAviation
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 27, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13822 times:

Kingfisher Airlines settles GMR dues, warrants against Vijay Mallya withdrawn.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...withdrawn/articleshow/16854770.cms

Quote:
The ailing airline Kingfisher AirlinesBSE 5.00 % (KFA) has on Wednesday cleared the Rs 10.5 crore of dues to GMR, the owner of Hyderabad International Airport, and arrived at a settlement to cancel the non-bailable warrants served on its chairman Vijay Mallya and four senior executives.


User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3106 posts, RR: 4
Reply 28, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 13769 times:

I have a question about the terminal construction work on at BOM......are they going to build a new large terminal which will handle both domestic and international, like DEL? If so, what will happen to the domestic terminals in future? If not, is any better link between the two terminals planned?

User currently offlinetayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 13668 times:

DGCA rejects Kingfisher Airlines winter schedule; stock down

''The minister added that disgruntled and unpaid employees are a risk''

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...tock-down/articleshow/16861459.cms

Atlast, some common sense has dawned upon the MoCA/DGCA wherein they admit the risk of disgruntled employees working on Pax aircrafts.

Coming back to the ''5yr/20ac rule''. This major barrier to entry stops competition from entering the markets.
1. What we are witnessing this winter in India is a form of cartelisation where the existing players decide on a base fare and deploy capacity to match it. In short there is an agreement between the top and bottom of the sector to carve out the market, this is obviously not healthy for the pax, economy or the airlines themselves. The reason being that International airlines competing with the domestic carriers will damage the lower tier Indian airlines i.e. AI, which will react by deploying excess capacity into the domestic sector and then the whole bun fight starts all over again.

2. New entrants bring a fresh approach to the competition and a sound management can make the difference. I mention this observing the growth of Ryan Air and Easyjet. When EZY started in LTN, the existing players created every possible hurdle, but due to their solid biz plan and shrewd focused management they managed to beat every competiton, same with FR across europe. The freedom to start a route was their greatest weapon in fighting the competition where the created new routes and targeted the existing cartels.

3. The 5yr rule is so debilitating that growth for 5yrs at a steady pace reaching 20 aircrafts is next to impossible in a market which is dominanted by the likes of AI at the bottom end. GO is eveidence of this, its hardly an encouraging sign for any entrepreneur.

4. I can understand the argument that others had to bear this, especially 9W, which struggled for long before they were allowed to fly (i wont get into how NG managed to start-up with 100%FDI and now they are questioning his holding) but then we can't be stuck in an evidently draconian rule, there has to be a change in this. Even the argument to lower this to say 3yrs or 2yrs is defeating, Because there are many Intl city pairs that might be low yielding than say metro routes within India however these could be profitable enough for the start-up helping stimulate the market there.

5. Inspite of all his mistakes, you have to credit DN for changing the mindset in the market. Subsequent to his entry 6E and SG started too and now you see where they are, 9W and AI stuck to their biz models and most of the rules are protecting them. 9W is behaving more like a national airline and encouraging this cartelisation, i can see it merging with AI in the not so distant future.



''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 504 posts, RR: 1
Reply 30, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 13573 times:

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 29):
9W is behaving more like a national airline and encouraging this cartelisation, i can see it merging with AI in the not so distant future.

Unless AI is back in profits, I don't see that happening, so if at all this were to happen it would be in a rather distant future.



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3106 posts, RR: 4
Reply 31, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13550 times:

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 29):
9W is behaving more like a national airline and encouraging this cartelisation, i can see it merging with AI in the not so distant future.

Why on earth would 9W want to merge with AI?  


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 32, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 13463 times:

Latest data on market share.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...s-further/articleshow/16866326.cms

Quote:
Low cost carrier IndiGo has maintained its lead as market leader for the third successive month by flying the largest number of passengers in the domestic skies with a market share of 27.2% in September, while air traffic shrank further.

Meanwhile, while erstwhile market leader Jet Airways' share in the domestic passenger pie shrunk further to 23.8% compared with the last month when it carried 25.2%, Air India expanded its market share flying 19.3% travelers.

While trouble stricken Kingfiher Airlines share hovered around at 3.5%, those of budget carriers SpiceJet and GoAir remained static compared with August at 18.5% and 7.6% respectively.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13114 posts, RR: 100
Reply 33, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 13454 times:
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Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 32):
IndiGo has maintained its lead as market leader for the third successive month by flying the largest number of passengers in the domestic skies with a market share of 27.2% in September

Very interesting.

This ties in with Winter flight planning:
http://articles.economictimes.indiat...sher-airlines-flights-alliance-air

From above:
IndiGo would operate 2,447 flights, compared to 1,879 last year,
SpiceJet 2,233 compared to 2,051
GoAir 675 as against 588.
Air India-Alliance Air would operate 2,169 flights, compared to 2,313 last year
Jet Airways-JetLite would together fly 3,369 services compared to 3,780 in 2011

Significantly, the flight schedule of crisis-ridden Kingfisher Airlines has not been approved by aviation regulator DGCA. Kingfisher, which has declared a lockout till October 20 with its employees on strike to demand pending wages, had last year flown 2,930 flights.

The trend favors the low cost operator. Interesting that there is a 19% drop in Indian flights YOY. If IT doesn't restart flying, that is a significant contraction.

Kingfisher keeps extending the lockout, now to November 5th:
http://www.livemint.com/Companies/jc...ends-lockout-until-5-November.html


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 34, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 13366 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 33):
Interesting that there is a 19% drop in Indian flights YOY. If IT doesn't restart flying, that is a significant contraction.

A significant contraction in flights, but I expect passenger numbers not to decline as much as the current aggregate load factor is around 80%. Expect full flights at higher prices, and perhaps higher aggregate profits for the industry.


User currently offlineBLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 343 posts, RR: 14
Reply 35, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13367 times:

I did an analysis of the Q2 FY2013 passenger numbers. Within the quarter itself (not year on year) i.e. July to September passenger numbers are down 11.5%. 9W is down almost 21%. IndiGo almost 11%  

Air fares are a huge driver, as PLFs are below 70%.



I am on Twitter @BLRAviation
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 36, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13361 times:

Kingfisher Airlines stares at licence suspension.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...uspension/articleshow/16873079.cms

Quote:
Crisis-ridden Kingfisher Airlines could be on the verge of having its flying licence suspended. Like scores of its unpaid employees, vendors and service providers, the aviation ministry is also going to look for real money - and not just promises or timelines to pay - in the reply the airline has to file to Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA)'s notice by Saturday.

Unless convinced that Kingfisher has the resources to operate as a schedule airline and maintain its timetable of flights with full safety, highly placed aviation authorities say they will go for licence suspension. "Kingfisher is on cash and carry by most service providers. We do not want a situation where the airline restarts operations and then keeps flying in fits and starts whenever its unpaid employees are not on strike and the service providers refusing to service it. We have seen enough of that since last November," said a senior official.

A formal decision on the airline's licence could be taken next week.


User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 37, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13362 times:

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 21):
Enforcement of this single rule has resulted in the demise of KFA now and Paramount in the past. Both the airlines were excellent biz models and had a fair chance to succeed had it not been for this one rule.

Completely disagree. Indias domestic market is where most of the value is for Indian carriers. KFA had a poor businrss plan, poor management, more money than brains (today they are bankrupt but hopefully wiser), and an owner who did things based on his whim. That is why KFA has collapsed. Paramount just had the wrong business model.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 38, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 13318 times:

Airline owners need to get proper motivated & functioning managers to run their company.


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinetayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 13259 times:

Quoting sankaps (Reply 37):
Completely disagree. Indias domestic market is where most of the value is for Indian carriers. KFA had a poor businrss plan, poor management, more money than brains (today they are bankrupt but hopefully wiser), and an owner who did things based on his whim. That is why KFA has collapsed. Paramount just had the wrong business model.

The value proposition is enhanced with a Intl network, a purely domestic network is only profitable on the Trunk routes while others struggle KFA as a brand, during its launch was at its peak,they targeted the top cream. Evidence of success of that is the better pricing they commanded, the oneworld alliance and their impact resulted in Virgin exiting BOM. Undoubtedly KFA has been mismanaged however the decision to buy DN was thrust upon them due to the 5yr rule.

If you claim, 6E as having been thru the pain of the 5yr rule, i'll have to highlight they ordered 100 aircrafts to start with, significant discounts would have been secured on this purchase. A sale-lease back with even 5% profits on each aircraft would have seen them cushioned against the vagaries of domestic sector.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 31):
Why on earth would 9W want to merge with AI?

Its been less than 24hrs since my last post and the figures for Aug-Sept show AI going past 9W, obviously its been due to AI's lower tik prices affecting the only other full service carrier 9W, as predicted in my post on the reaction of the lower segment of the market.
I do admit it sound very far fetched but looking at the above scenario where now the most significant competitor for 9W is AI, what does gaming theory tell you ? Additionally going by their previous move to buy S2, which i said earlier as in the case of KFA-DN was a forced decision, an AI with a lower head count and new aircrafts alongwith its significant routes can be surely merged with 9W. In case KFA losses its license, the Govt owned FIs will be taking a huge hit, why can't the govt offer a similar write off in the case of AI with a chance to survive. The govt is actively talking of consolidation in the industry, this could be it.



''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 40, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13193 times:

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 39):
If you claim, 6E as having been thru the pain of the 5yr rule, i'll have to highlight they ordered 100 aircrafts to start with, significant discounts would have been secured on this purchase. A sale-lease back with even 5% profits on each aircraft would have seen them cushioned against the vagaries of domestic sector.

Exactly. They had a solid strategy and business plan as well as sound management, all of the above did not happen accidentally.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 39):
Evidence of success of that is the better pricing they commanded, the oneworld alliance and their impact resulted in Virgin exiting BOM.

Until their final year, KFA was priced at a discount to full service airlines both domestically and internationally. Oneworld alliance was only because Jet for a long time was anti-alliance, and then seemed to lean closer to both Star and SkyTeam. KFA was the only available option for OW. Certainly not their preferred option. Air-India was a non-option.


User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 41, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13199 times:

A good write-up on the Kingfisher saga here (except the author evidently does not know the meaning of the word "pulchritude")

http://www.tehelka.com/story_main54....sp?filename=Op271012Kingfisher.asp


User currently offlinetayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days ago) and read 13141 times:

Quoting sankaps (Reply 40):
Exactly. They had a solid strategy and business plan as well as sound management, all of the above did not happen accidentally

Well not many start-ups across the world can place an order for 100 aircrafts, unless offcource you are a Rakesh gangwal or a David neeleman. The point i mentioned and support throughout is the fact that KFA/VJM was forced to take the disasterous of buying DN simply because of the 5yr rule (DN had an order for 60+ aircrafts at the time of buyout, in 2012, IIRC 64 of the 92 aircrafts with KFA were DN orders). Had that rule been missing the outcome would have been definately a lot better.


Quoting sankaps (Reply 40):
Until their final year

Pleased to see you accept they commanded a premium for over 5yrs of their 6yr ops, this was inspite of the steady decline.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 40):
Oneworld alliance was only because Jet for a long time was anti-alliance, and then seemed to lean closer to both Star and SkyTeam. KFA was the only available option for OW.

Again here they managed to get into the alliance at a very early stage, which reflected on acceptance by a leading industry benchmark.

[Edited 2012-10-19 11:40:33]


''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13121 times:

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 42):
Well not many start-ups across the world can place an order for 100 aircrafts, unless offcource you are a Rakesh gangwal or a David neeleman. The point i mentioned and support throughout is the fact that KFA/VJM was forced to take the disasterous of buying DN simply because of the 5yr rule (DN had an order for 60+ aircrafts at the time of buyout, in 2012, IIRC 64 of the 92 aircrafts with KFA were DN orders). Had that rule been missing the outcome would have been definately a lot better.

I'm still not following your logic. Kingfisher didn't have to do anything. There is plenty of unexploited potential in the domestic market, as SG has been demonstrating with many of their new routes.

The reason IT bought DN was to feed Vijay Mallya's ego. If it was analyzed from a business perspective, even the most incompetent manager would know what a disaster it would turn out to be. So much debt, so many unneeded orders, such a poor state of operations.

You're using the 5 year rule as a scapegoat for Kingfisher's poor management.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 44, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13108 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 43):
You're using the 5 year rule as a scapegoat for Kingfisher's poor management.

Why wasn't IT able to get the ministry to drop the five year rule? Larger suitcases from Deccan and Jet?


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 45, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13095 times:

Air India invites bids for 12 of its 23 floors in its Nariman Point building. Is it planning to keep the rest for its BOM staff? Do they need that many floors if the HQ will be in DEL?

http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...-building/articleshow/16879870.cms


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13088 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 45):
Air India invites bids for 12 of its 23 floors in its Nariman Point building. Is it planning to keep the rest for its BOM staff? Do they need that many floors if the HQ will be in DEL?

Many floors are already leased out...

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 44):
Why wasn't IT able to get the ministry to drop the five year rule? Larger suitcases from Deccan and Jet?

Probably. Or maybe they thought it would be more cost-effective to buy DN than get the rule changed, Who knows.

The point is that it was a stupid decision from the start.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 47, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 13077 times:

Air India offers five Boeing 777LRs for sale.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...-for-sale/articleshow/16880243.cms

The largest operators of 772LRs are EK, Delta, Qatar, and AC. Will any of them be interested? How about Ethiopian? Any airline that does not operate this type but could use it for the right price?

Since AI has eight 772LRs, they must be planning to keep three. What current routes would the LRs make more sense than 77W or 788? They would need 772LRs if they are planning on offering non-stop to SFO/LAX.

Why can't the GOI buy one for President/PM of India?


User currently offlinetayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 13071 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 44):
Why wasn't IT able to get the ministry to drop the five year rule? Larger suitcases from Deccan and Jet?

Surely, there is plenty of circumstantial evidence to suggest S2 had the blessings of S.Pawar. Amby valley the subroto roy project in Lonavala is right next to the controversial Lavasa project and had the blessings of Pawar, as stated by himself. The 2004 edition of India today had N.Goyal among the top 5 industrialist close to the congress camp. Capt Gopi happens to come from the same village as Devegowda, conveniently.

Crony capitalism is like the mafia, where the Don carves out territories for all to keep the peace, some do end up drawing the short straw.



''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3106 posts, RR: 4
Reply 49, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 13033 times:

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 39):
I do admit it sound very far fetched but looking at the above scenario where now the most significant competitor for 9W is AI, what does gaming theory tell you ? Additionally going by their previous move to buy S2, which i said earlier as in the case of KFA-DN was a forced decision, an AI with a lower head count and new aircrafts alongwith its significant routes can be surely merged with 9W. In case KFA losses its license, the Govt owned FIs will be taking a huge hit, why can't the govt offer a similar write off in the case of AI with a chance to survive. The govt is actively talking of consolidation in the industry, this could be it.

I get what you're hinting at......however, I'm not too sure of how familiar you are with Indian matters.....in my opinion, the owners of 9W wouldn't go anywhere near AI, even if it was available......dealing with the GOI, the unions (especially the unions!!) and all walks of political parties, all of whom would pitch in to make their opinions known strongly.......it's a sure shot formula for ensuring disaster shortly down the line......just look at the merger of AI and IC (two govt owned airlines) and see the mess created....even their pilots don't see eye to eye!!

9W surely has growth plans for the future, but there are better ways to grow in the Indian market.......


User currently offlinecaliatenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 13013 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 47):

Since AI has eight 772LRs, they must be planning to keep three. What current routes would the LRs make more sense than 77W or 788? They would need 772LRs if they are planning on offering non-stop to SFO/LAX.

Was AI even planning for LAX or SFO?


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 13029 times:

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 49):
I get what you're hinting at......however, I'm not too sure of how familiar you are with Indian matters.....in my opinion, the owners of 9W wouldn't go anywhere near AI, even if it was available......dealing with the GOI, the unions (especially the unions!!) and all walks of political parties, all of whom would pitch in to make their opinions known strongly.......it's a sure shot formula for ensuring disaster shortly down the line......just look at the merger of AI and IC (two govt owned airlines) and see the mess created....even their pilots don't see eye to eye!!

9W surely has growth plans for the future, but there are better ways to grow in the Indian market.......

9W is owned by the same people who run AI. Surely they could come up with a deal for themselves...



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 52, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 13000 times:

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 42):
Well not many start-ups across the world can place an order for 100 aircrafts, unless offcource you are a Rakesh gangwal or a David neeleman. The point i mentioned and support throughout is the fact that KFA/VJM was forced to take the disasterous of buying DN simply because of the 5yr rule (DN had an order for 60+ aircrafts at the time of buyout, in 2012, IIRC 64 of the 92 aircrafts with KFA were DN orders). Had that rule been missing the outcome would have been definately a lot better.

No. They simply perspective in their ego-driven desire to fly int'l. And you are conveniently forgetting the fact that int'l flights lost them even more money!

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 42):
Pleased to see you accept they commanded a premium for over 5yrs of their 6yr ops, this was inspite of the steady decline.

No. They commanded a premium on only one of the 6 years (in their final full year), because they raised fares as a desperate attempt to stem the bleeding. In all of their other years, they discounted heavily, especially on international.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 43):
I'm still not following your logic. Kingfisher didn't have to do anything. There is plenty of unexploited potential in the domestic market, as SG has been demonstrating with many of their new routes.

The reason IT bought DN was to feed Vijay Mallya's ego. If it was analyzed from a business perspective, even the most incompetent manager would know what a disaster it would turn out to be. So much debt, so many unneeded orders, such a poor state of operations.

Exactly!


User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 53, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12989 times:

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 21):
Enforcement of this single rule has resulted in the demise of KFA now and Paramount in the past. Both the airlines were excellent biz models

WHAT?

It was by far the worst business model in the airline industry.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 39):
vidence of success of that is the better pricing they commanded, the oneworld alliance and their impact resulted in Virgin exiting BOM

Again incorrect,

When VS left BOM, IT was not even invited to join OW. IT started the route in January 2009 and by May 2009 VS withdrew.

Quoting caliatenza (Reply 50):
Was AI even planning for LAX or SFO?

LAX no, SFO yes.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 54, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 12953 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 46):
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 45):
Air India invites bids for 12 of its 23 floors in its Nariman Point building. Is it planning to keep the rest for its BOM staff? Do they need that many floors if the HQ will be in DEL?

Many floors are already leased out...

Mainly to the Tata's - TCS is HQ'ed there

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 43):
The reason IT bought DN was to feed Vijay Mallya's ego. If it was analyzed from a business perspective, even the most incompetent manager would know what a disaster it would turn out to be. So much debt, so many unneeded orders, such a poor state of operations.

You're using the 5 year rule as a scapegoat for Kingfisher's poor management.

Mallya had no business ordering A330's and A380's in 'anticipation' of the rules changing - which Mallya was 'sure' he culd manage with some ministers backing him. What Mallya did not know is that his outsize ego upset enough other people in the Cabinet and they made a concerted effort to not change the law - even though the airlines had a point. SpiceJet and Indigo also complained about the law but went about doing their business.

Now, I understand that Captain GR Gopinath is 'feted' by the media for several reasons, but as a mediaperson I have met Gopi enough times - he is what I would call a compulsive confessor; calling him involved a one-hour lecture on among other things the sexual adventures of Naresh Goyal and PP (involving a 9W air-hostess, then married to a 9W FO and now post 'augmentation' is a Bollywood starlet, the 9W pilot thankfully moved on to nicer girl) and how NG 'personally' sabotaged' the engine on Deccan's first ATR flight (which caught fire)... anyhoo, long story short, Gopi had a horrific business model. In the line-up of crappy Indian aviation business model's Gopi's was only marginally better than Sahara's. Gopi even tried to make his delivery slots fungible with a deal with RBS, which made Airbus go apoplectic with rage. His IPO was doomed to failure and he had no choice but to go under... or to use a Hindi term, find a 'murga' and he found a big, fat murga.
Now, IT as a smallish airline with 25-odd planes was a good airline growing fairly well. Had that IT kept growing, with the international routes then coming in 2010, I guess it would have been fine. We never know what happened in that parallel dimension. However, mallya had bought his 332's and 345's and they were about to come and well, he had to fly them places. Now, Mallya had some friends in the government (our new President as FM enabled him to get the favorable debt-equity conversion apparently) but the then (and now) FinMin doesn't like him too much (I shall refrain from Delhi gossip here) and was the prime mover in the law not being changed.
Instead of losing face and placing the 332's in a temporary home (like 9W did with their 77W's) or even finding a new home for the 345's when he could have which after the US economy slipped was impossible, Mallya bought out Gopi. Some of us, who have covered the aviation sector for years were aghast, we had seen Deccan's financials from their IPO filings and after that, and well they were this close to insolvency. Of course, in the process of his desperation Mallya also made 9W take their worst business decision ever and buy of Sahara (although that means that one fatty can't bail the other fatty out now thanks to no-compete clauses, even though Sahara Shri has to find Rs 40,000 crore from somewhere to get SEBI off its back.... another story)...
The events following that are well documented here...
This was a train crash bound to happen; Mallya's ego was far to big, his refusal to lose face in 2007 and meant a massive fall in 2012. The Mallya brand is so tainted it isn't funny...



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 55, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 12929 times:

The end of good times.........sad for the employees.....

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 47):

Why can't the GOI buy one for President/PM of India?

True.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 56, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12905 times:

Effective W12 SQ and ET will code share on each other's flights between DEL and SIN. SQ is also expected to announce additional 5 weekly DEL - SIN soon departing 1100 hrs ish from DEL.

[Edited 2012-10-20 06:41:07]


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlinetayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12864 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 53):
It was by far the worst business model in the airline industry.

It was no different from QR, the only diff being QR have an assortment of Intl girls and loads of LPG backing their model. KFA had 100% Indian birds and loads of Barley and Ale backing it.........seriously he did change the game in India. I remember whilst working in BOM for Flyglobespan on the leased B767, all the Brit crew were gaga about KFA.

As a brand he had got just about everything right, his logo, Interiors with the Bordello Red, the girls and their uniform. Many of my friends are Traders of Nagpur, they are heavily into the news, infact one of them was the agent for PP, anyways it was thru these folks that i got to know whats the most in thing intravel in India. Previously it was BA 'J' class and with KFA it was none other than ''Lalwali''.

To be honest, my interest in Paramount was purely because of the E-Jets. Had they been allowed to fly Intl, they would have surely survived with the all Biz class gradually reducing into a dual class. There are plenty of sectors where the E-Jets are ideal for the pax catchment. There loads of T-2 cities in India with a large biz community earning in excess of $100k/yr. In their case too, they were carrying on till they reached the 5yr goal post.


Quoting ojas (Reply 53):
When VS left BOM, IT was not even invited to join OW. IT started the route in January 2009 and by May 2009 VS withdrew.

Thanks for the dates they vindicate my point, i never said their entry into Oneworld resulted in VS's exit.

With the near demise of KFA, i hope we have some solid debate on the ills affecting aviation in India. Personally i do not have any hopes on this, the reason being crony capitalism where the Press is part of this whole biz of doing biz, rather than being a genuine adjudicator by putting the plain facts on board you see them more as advertorial writters. Here is a fantastic article on this in the FT http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/0eb44760-1907-11e2-af88-00144feabdc0.html It gives a very good picture of how every body in India are living in cuckoo land. I do realise i write this in the secure comforts of my home in UK but believe me i've tried hard twice to put my money where my mouth is, but end of the day i had to come back to feed the littleones in the nest. I tried to engage everyone from the Industry, Airlines, DGCA and the unions, all had their heads up their backside. The DGCA is the worst, where they do not implement on the new rules and retain the old system because it allows for graft, infact there is a collusion with unions in AI to further their vested interests.
Those who encourage the ME airlines or the EU airlines increasing their flts into India have to realise that it will start with the Airlines and then the services industry next will be encouraged to move to ME with the manf industry or whatever is left of it, following.



''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 12848 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 54):
This was a train crash bound to happen; Mallya's ego was far to big, his refusal to lose face in 2007 and meant a massive fall in 2012. The Mallya brand is so tainted it isn't funny...

If it weren't for the plight of the employees, I'd think it's quite funny. I wouldn't have thought it was humanly possible to squander so much of daddy's liquor money. All I can say is that he deserves it.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 57):
It was no different from QR, the only diff being QR have an assortment of Intl girls and loads of LPG backing their model. KFA had 100% Indian birds and loads of Barley and Ale backing it.........seriously he did change the game in India. I remember whilst working in BOM for Flyglobespan on the leased B767, all the Brit crew were gaga about KFA.

As a brand he had got just about everything right, his logo, Interiors with the Bordello Red, the girls and their uniform. Many of my friends are Traders of Nagpur, they are heavily into the news, infact one of them was the agent for PP, anyways it was thru these folks that i got to know whats the most in thing intravel in India. Previously it was BA 'J' class and with KFA it was none other than ''Lalwali''.

Kingfisher did do its branding in an impressive manner. However, branding does not make a business model. Virgin America has great branding, and they look like a train-wreck waiting to happen as well.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 57):
To be honest, my interest in Paramount was purely because of the E-Jets. Had they been allowed to fly Intl, they would have surely survived with the all Biz class gradually reducing into a dual class. There are plenty of sectors where the E-Jets are ideal for the pax catchment. There loads of T-2 cities in India with a large biz community earning in excess of $100k/yr. In their case too, they were carrying on till they reached the 5yr goal post.

if you want E-jets in India, you will get your wish fairly soon. There are 2 startups which expect to get off the ground soon, one in BLR and one in HYD, with E-jets.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 59, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 12848 times:

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 57):
To be honest, my interest in Paramount was purely because of the E-Jets. Had they been allowed to fly Intl, they would have surely survived with the all Biz class gradually reducing into a dual class. There are plenty of sectors where the E-Jets are ideal for the pax catchment. There loads of T-2 cities in India with a large biz community earning in excess of $100k/yr. In their case too, they were carrying on till they reached the 5yr goal post.

You don't want to get me started on Thiagrajan; the last media org I worked for had two folks who were 'fida' over him and believed his business plans to the max. He did try to get a deal with the Wadia's - and I haven't heard much about them for a while, they seem to be very, very quiet (not a bad thing) - this was again a slightly weird biz plan. The E-Jets - 175's in particular were sub-optimal MAA-IXM or MAA-BLR or MAA-TVM - These are AT7 or Q400 sectors, jets do not make a palpable time difference on such sectors - the MAA-PNQ flight they started towards the end was actually the best use of the E175 they did.

Paramount started with MAA-DEL where the E175 was well, underkill, far too small and far too high a CASM for the sector which is why they withdrew. Instead of going after long, thin routes even from Chennai and there are several that they could have come up with he went the easy route. The 'bunkum' that Thiagrajan used to always say about 2-2 seating that "we are the only ones to offer such seating throughout the aircraft" once prompted me to ask him to show me a Embraer with 3-3 seating. That is what the plane was built with, not particular to them.

You're right there are loads of cities in India that Paramount could have served had they thought this plan through and used the planes on routes above 500km in stage length or routes where KFA and 9W weren't going hammer and tongs against them, and when SpiceJet joined the mix.... But they didn't.

SpiceJet has made a smart move by getting the Q400's and basing them in MAA and DEL. I believe they can make their prop plan work, but I still believe that India needs 2,3,4 dedicated regional carriers based in cities like AMD, TVM, LKO, GAU and so on



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 60, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12821 times:

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 57):
It was no different from QR, the only diff being QR have an assortment of Intl girls and loads of LPG backing their model. KFA had 100% Indian birds and loads of Barley and Ale backing it.........seriously he did change the game in India. I remember whilst working in BOM for Flyglobespan on the leased B767, all the Brit crew were gaga about KFA.

As a brand he had got just about everything right, his logo, Interiors with the Bordello Red, the girls and their uniform. Many of my friends are Traders of Nagpur, they are heavily into the news, infact one of them was the agent for PP, anyways it was thru these folks that i got to know whats the most in thing intravel in India

It is easy to make an impressive brand when you are least bothered about the cost structure or the spending discipline and the same thing is applicable to QR to an extent. I will give IT the credit of branding themselves much better than many of their rivals, but all of that was at a HUGE cost and sadly that cost today is the airline's very existence.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlinetayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days ago) and read 12821 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 59):
SpiceJet has made a smart move by getting the Q400's and basing them in MAA and DEL. I believe they can make their prop plan work, but I still believe that India needs 2,3,4 dedicated regional carriers based in cities like AMD, TVM, LKO, GAU and so on

My opinion of Paramount was based on observing the likes of Flybe or LH operating the E-Jets here in EU. There are many T-2 cities in India with seizeable population of 25-55yr olds that would love to make a trip abroad, if only to hold a passport and get it stamped.
Cities like Indore, Vadodra, Pune, Coimbatore, Madurai, Vizak, Jaipur, Nagpur, Raipur, Ranchi, Patna, Bhubaneshwar etc etc have tremendous potential to create a decent pax catchment. DXB/BKK are popular ''Stress release'' centres for not only the Shop based traders but also the office bound babus.
When you limit an aircraft to an alreday saturated domestic market, stimulating that market is very difficult however if you can allow it to fly unhindered, subject to route dispersal within the radius of its flying range, infinite possibilities are created. Aviation is a very interesting industry and aircrafts are fascinating engineering marvels.
Each aircraft type has its USP but the biggest catalyst is the Fuel cost. I have worked in this industry for the last 25yrs and the price of oil has avg $25/barrel for 18 of these 25 yrs. It was only after the Yanks entered Iraq and then AF-PAK did the fuel price start to climb to $100/brl. This has been on the back of record oil discoveries across the world however the consumption at the same time increased very marginally IIRC not more than 5%, the reason being the USA motorist was the largest consumer of oil at 25% of the worlds production and also the airplanes that flew earlier were heavy gas guzzlers. Tech made both extremely efficient at a very fast pace.

You highlight the turbo-props, many of the prop manf were on the verge of shutting shop due to falling sales, this was when Oil sold at $18/brl. Qatar was reeling under a recession with deficits, Abudhabi and Saudi were panicking about future of their young population, and i was working for EK then so know it first hand being in the gulf. It was in this scenario that the E-Jets were launched and become immediately popular, many systems designed for these jets have been adopted by Airbus and Boeing. With a higher utilisation the E-Jets are popular/efficient over the T-Props.

Spice-jet also struggled during the 5yr period till going Intl, no wonder the ownership changed hands. We are just coming out of this period of Irrational exhuberance, as i mentioned earlier i have seen the middle - east at $18/brl. Yesterday they declared the first proven/successfull process to convert CO2 into petrol, they claim next is green aviation fuel. So don't get too carried away with the last 8yrs of this world or the UPA govt, the Yanks are now headed into Syria, Yemen etc. It could be that they exit from all of this alongwith AF-PAK in 2014, Hopefully fuel will be down from then on.
And a new govt in India gets rid of the 5yr rule alongwith AI under its ownership.............dream on.



''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 62, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12690 times:

A good article on the rise and fall of Kingfisher in the Daily Mail, of all places! An excellent read.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome...-clean-mess.html?ito=feeds-newsxml


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 63, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12627 times:

Quoting sankaps (Reply 62):

A good article on the rise and fall of Kingfisher in the Daily Mail, of all places! An excellent read.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome...wsxml

Mail Today - which provides all the news to the Daily Mail's India section. It is a JV between Daily Mail and India Today.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 61):
Spice-jet also struggled during the 5yr period till going Intl, no wonder the ownership changed hands.

Not quite true, SpiceJet international success has been limited going by their balance sheet. maybe the new routes could help them, but SpiceJet's venture into being a northern and southern regional carrier is what will make or break them, not international.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 61):
Each aircraft type has its USP but the biggest catalyst is the Fuel cost. I have worked in this industry for the last 25yrs and the price of oil has avg $25/barrel for 18 of these 25 yrs. It was only after the Yanks entered Iraq and then AF-PAK did the fuel price start to climb to $100/brl.

But all the Indian private carriers started after 9/11; and Indian ATF prices at least on domestic sectors have always been massively inflated. Jet-A is less refined than petrol and should technically be cheaper, but here, profits from ATF is used to subsidize diesel/LPG etc, etc.
My point with props should also include the fact that Jet, Deccan and Kingfisher gave ATR a lifeline when western carriers were going E-Jet and CRJ crazy, primarily because of the fact that fuel was always expensive in India and some tier-II cities had (and some like Patna still have) pathetic runways and airport facilities. To be fair to Praful Patel, he did initiate a massive spurt of construction across small airports in India. In cities like Udaipur, Benaras, Bagdogra, even Bhuj there are nice new terminals and longer and better surfaced runways.

The rules are the same for everyone; the rules might be idiotic, and airline ownership rules often are idiotic across the world, but they are the same for everyone in the private sector.



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 64, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 12600 times:

If the 5yr rule is withdrawn .... there could be better options for fresh starters vide FDI.


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinetayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 65, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12611 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 63):
But all the Indian private carriers started after 9/11; and Indian ATF prices at least on domestic sectors have always been massively inflated. Jet-A is less refined than petrol and should technically be cheaper, but here, profits from ATF is used to subsidize diesel/LPG etc, etc.
My point with props should also include the fact that Jet, Deccan and Kingfisher gave ATR a lifeline when western carriers were going E-Jet and CRJ crazy, primarily because of the fact that fuel was always expensive in India and some tier-II cities had (and some like Patna still have) pathetic runways and airport facilities. To be fair to Praful Patel, he did initiate a massive spurt of construction across small airports in India. In cities like Udaipur, Benaras, Bagdogra, even Bhuj there are nice new terminals and longer and better surfaced runways.


You are ''missing the woods for the trees'', Let me correct you here ALL INDIAN PVT CARRIERS did not start after 9/11, 9W and S2 started much before. I am not sure about 9W but S2 did fly the CRJs of which one had crashed in GOA whilst i was there.
Pls don't wind me up by mentioning PP. In his 1yr AS has done more good to the MoCA then PP did in 5yrs. The small airports have to be developed but their growth is limited to domestic demand. Intl connections will help stimulate the market. There are plenty of regions, stations, cities with their own USP to an Intl pax market. If you see my first posts here, you will note mention of Bodh gaya which is now served by Thai based carriers, same is relevant for Tirupati or Varanasi etc. Once you allow these ports to direct Intl connections the dynamics change with best in the trade heading for these places creating all round development. AS is talking about state govt subsidizing regional airlines, they will do the same for these airlines if they can create adequate connectivity to Intl dest.
Ref spice and its domestic growth, there are plenty of chronicals on excess capacity in the domestic markets.



''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
User currently offlineBLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 343 posts, RR: 14
Reply 66, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12586 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 64):
If the 5yr rule is withdrawn .... there could be better options for fresh starters vide FDI.

Ajit Singh has specifically ruled out FDI to start-ups. He has to protect Jet and IndiGo. I do not think 5 year rule is being withdrawn. GoAir has asked for relaxation of the 20 aircraft fleet size rule for international flights.



I am on Twitter @BLRAviation
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 67, posted (1 year 11 months 12 hours ago) and read 12425 times:

Govt to seek review of steep airport charges.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...t-charges/articleshow/16909081.cms

Quote:
A massive 12.4% slump in domestic passenger traffic in September — over the same month last year — has set off alarm bells in the government. Worried about the potentially disastrous impact it could have on already ailing airlines, the aviation ministry will ask the Airports Economic Regulatory Authority (AERA) to review airport charges as high user development fees levied on passengers is being seen as a deterrent to flying.


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 68, posted (1 year 11 months 11 hours ago) and read 12397 times:

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 65):
You are ''missing the woods for the trees'', Let me correct you here ALL INDIAN PVT CARRIERS did not start after 9/11, 9W and S2 started much before. I am not sure about 9W but S2 did fly the CRJs of which one had crashed in GOA whilst i was there.

I meant all the new carriers, my bad! 9W and S2 started in 1991-93 with many others. My point is basic, there have been bad business plans in the past in Indian aviation - look at all the failures from the class of 1991-93 including S2 finally, and look at the failures from the current batch. Only Jet survived - Modiluft-Royal-SpiceJet hardly counts, because the ministry considered them a 'new' airline when they started up in 2005 and they did not go international until 2010.

Regional routes will take time to build up, the problem is no mater how much Ajit Singh talks of government support, the fact is that India's fiscal deficit is out of control, and after Kingfisher's almost certain demise and while I wait for the CVC/CAG audits of SBI for funding them, Public Sector banks will almost certainly hesitate in funding airlines. In that sense, Mallya would have actually flown Indian aviation back a few years.

Is there excess capacity in India right now? I'm not so sure that there would be excess capacity if the economy wasn't visibly tanking. Things are not that great out here. Lets see how the Winter Session plays out; I'm praying for early elections in 2013.



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 69, posted (1 year 11 months 11 hours ago) and read 12388 times:

Whats the progress on the Navi Mumbai airport.....Is there any work in progress apart from the signboard.....


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineLutfi From China, joined Sep 2000, 775 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (1 year 11 months 11 hours ago) and read 12392 times:

So, what is the latest on Indigo? Will they be one of the winners/ survivors in Indian aviation?

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 71, posted (1 year 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 12375 times:

Quoting Lutfi (Reply 70):
So, what is the latest on Indigo? Will they be one of the winners/ survivors in Indian aviation?

Indigo is currently in profits in the Pax category....
Bluedart/DHL Air is in profits in the freighter category....
The rest are still trying to get into a better situation.....



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinetayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 72, posted (1 year 11 months 8 hours ago) and read 12335 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 68):
Is there excess capacity in India right now? I'm not so sure that there would be excess capacity if the economy wasn't visibly tanking.
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 67):
A massive 12.4% slump in domestic passenger traffic in September — over the same month last year — has set off alarm bells in the government

I have no doubts about excess capacity in Dom sector, based on this one report.

FR at the start of the new millenium had 40% of it pax traffic from Ireland, at the end its down to single digits. They have deployed most of their capacity outside of Ireland during the recession. These are basics of this industry, where capacity deployment cannot be hindered by a DISABLING rule. And utilisation is one of the keys to lowering costs.
The only juice in a KFA AOC lays in the Intl rights, if the banks were to ever sell the KFA AOC, you know for sure the 5yr/20ac rule will be slapped on the new owner like it was done to Modi-Luft/Royal/Spice.

AS has done quite a bit till date and is making further progress, India is a no brainer for any Airline, there loads of pax, no wonder the likes of BA, LH & EK have double digit revenue from India. Its the crab mentality of Indians and the crony political class that are creating the hurdles. If there is one policy that the Brits have a consensus across political parties, its about the need for a ''STRONG AVIATION INDUSTRY'', so one does not need be a politician, engineer or a journo to suss the imp of aviation for an economy. Especially a country like India with a huge young population hungry for jobs, English educated, headed to countries with ageing population. Ours is a Knowledge economy, Aviation is absolutely imp to maintain connectivity. This cannot be trusted with Brits, Germans or the Arabs.

Till date i've not read a single exhaustive report on Indian aviation in any of the Biz papers. I wonder what stops these Editors from doing it to highlight the lacunae in the system. DGCA is living in the days of the RAJ, Its busy organising the 100yr celeberation rather than implement present day processes and practises. A simple comparision between Indian DGCA and the UAE/SIN/AUS CAA will highlight how pathetic the system is. Its heavily manned by Leftist from Kerala, Bengal and a few Biharis. All of the KFA Engg staff and many from the Ops can be accomodated within DGCA to fill the shortages. Infact these guys have hands-on experience unlike the paper pushers in DGCA who got in due to nepotism.
Right now, nearly a 100 executives of Indian origin are retiring across the ME and S.E.Asia, these guys left the shore post the Janta rule nationalisation of AI. Their exp is absolutely invaluble, the MoCA can use them on 2yr consultancies. All the major aviation behemoths across world use the knowledge and exp of their retired personnel. Why is it not being done in India ?

I pray there is some introspection within the 4th estate in India towards a genuine impartial reporting on the way forward for Indian aviation.



''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 73, posted (1 year 11 months 7 hours ago) and read 12305 times:

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 72):
Till date i've not read a single exhaustive report on Indian aviation in any of the Biz papers. I wonder what stops these Editors from doing it to highlight the lacunae in the system. DGCA is living in the days of the RAJ, Its busy organising the 100yr celeberation rather than implement present day processes and practises. A simple comparision between Indian DGCA and the UAE/SIN/AUS CAA will highlight how pathetic the system is. Its heavily manned by Leftist from Kerala, Bengal and a few Biharis. All of the KFA Engg staff and many from the Ops can be accomodated within DGCA to fill the shortages. Infact these guys have hands-on experience unlike the paper pushers in DGCA who got in due to nepotism.

        

Couldn't agree more.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5464 posts, RR: 30
Reply 74, posted (1 year 11 months 5 hours ago) and read 12278 times:

Again, I have to thank you guys for provided us with the inside scoop on the ever fascinating Indian airline industry. Before tuning in to these threads, it baffled me, (having spent years in the middle east), why Gulf carriers were expanding like crazy due to a large part on their Indian traffic, yet Indian airlines were significantly absent from the Gulf market.

As well, it always struck me as strange that the tiny population of the Gulf region could support such massive expansion while the mega populated India airlines are mostly AWOL. Even with the petro billions, it never did seem to add up.

This stuff makes the AA mess seem boring in comparison...a real, live soap opera..."As the Sub Continent Turns.

Like I said, "fascinating"

Keep it coming.



What the...?
User currently offlinetayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12175 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 74):
Again, I have to thank you guys for provided us with the inside scoop on the ever fascinating Indian airline industry.

Fascinating is the word. Here i would like to add a point in favour of India. The ME carriers are wholly dependent on the follies of their sub-continental competitors, infact on the insatiable appetite ''currency suitcases'' of the powers that be, Rather than on their own definative strengths.
And having said that, the likes of 6E, SG and to a great extent 9W are huge looming threats that only grow bigger with every passing day. Technology (A320Neo, B787/A350), Better/Honest governance in India and rapid urbanisation will change the fortunes in favour of the Indian airlines sooner than expected.

I've always repeated the same quote '' Do not judge any airline or region based on the last 10yrs of Irrational exhuberance''.



''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
User currently offlinecaliatenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 76, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12088 times:

http://lifestyle.in.msn.com/travel/a...ticle.aspx?cp-documentid=251150753

"Turkey seeks more destination rights for its airlines"

looks interesting. Hopefully TK can expand in India sooner than later.


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 77, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 12204 times:

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 75):
Fascinating is the word. Here i would like to add a point in favour of India. The ME carriers are wholly dependent on the follies of their sub-continental competitors, infact on the insatiable appetite ''currency suitcases'' of the powers that be,

Hey, EK is for all intents and purposes India's national carrier, because successive ministers have just given them more and more and more...



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 78, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12158 times:

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 66):
Ajit Singh has specifically ruled out FDI to start-ups. He has to protect Jet and IndiGo. I do not think 5 year rule is being withdrawn. GoAir has asked for relaxation of the 20 aircraft fleet size rule for international flights.

I was not aware of this. Are you sure? Do you have a link for this?


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 79, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 12133 times:

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 72):
All of the KFA Engg staff and many from the Ops can be accomodated within DGCA to fill the shortages.

The salaries offered are so poor that no one would consider it unless they have no option.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinetayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12112 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 79):
The salaries offered are so poor that no one would consider it unless they have no option.

The salaries offered to airline staff in India were the same as that in EU, infact salaries have been reduced by avg of 10% in EU due to the recession. So to compare the DGCA wages to this salaries is wrong because as i have said earlier, it was IRRATIONAL EXHUBERANCE which resulted in Indian staff being paid EU wages. KFA, 9W, 6E, SG, GO were chasing the same pool, with the some semblance of sense prevailing upon the airlines in India wages will soon come inline with ground realities, trust me i know first hand as i was there last year speaking to Management at KFA and 9W besides the DGCA.
Further more pray that something big does not blow up in the ME as this will create a flood of personell rushing back home increasing the pressure on an already depressed market.
A good yard stick is the fact that the KFA engineers at the bottom of the barrell were ready to work for 7months without wages, unknowingly they have set the median wage for the industry. Which compared to the DGCA is a shade poorer. Not ideal, neither was the era of Irrational Exhuberance.



''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12111 times:

Quoting sankaps (Reply 78):
I was not aware of this. Are you sure? Do you have a link for this?
http://www.firstpost.com/economy/fdi...-promoters-and-bankers-470382.html



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 82, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 12065 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 81):
Quoting sankaps (Reply 78):
I was not aware of this. Are you sure? Do you have a link for this?
http://www.firstpost.com/economy/fdi....html

Thanks. Seems like avery shortsighted move. Would be good if Air Asia, Tiger, Jetstar etc can come in via a JV with the Tatas or some such body. Always good to have at least two strong players in each market segment! Right now down to only Jet in FSCs and Indigo in LCCs (Spice and Go have been left far behind by Indigo).


User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 504 posts, RR: 1
Reply 83, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 12091 times:

Quoting caliatenza (Reply 76):

http://lifestyle.in.msn.com/travel/a...ticle.aspx?cp-documentid=251150753

"Turkey seeks more destination rights for its airlines"

looks interesting. Hopefully TK can expand in India sooner than later.

If India gives TK what they want it will get even worse for the Indian aviation. TK is a strong competitor to LH and EK and has the power to snatch travelers from Indian airlines even further.



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlinecaliatenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 11982 times:

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 83):

well that should be more incentive for Indian Carriers to step it up then. I would gladly fly AI or 9W but they dont connect to the West Coast of the US, so that poses a problem for me.


User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 504 posts, RR: 1
Reply 85, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 11924 times:

Quoting caliatenza (Reply 84):
well that should be more incentive for Indian Carriers to step it up then.

  

Don't we all want that....?

But for the Government, ATF prices, airport taxes, etc how can they.   



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 86, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 11873 times:

First Sanjay Aggarwal claimed that everybody would be back at work on Friday, but the employees are now saying that he is a liar
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...by-friday/articleshow/16940755.cms
Meanwhile, rumours circulate that Mallya will take a chopper to the F1 race so as to avoid protesters...



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 87, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 11787 times:

KF will need to reduce staff....what will transpire then......

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 80):
The salaries offered to airline staff in India were the same as that in EU, infact salaries have been reduced by avg of 10% in EU due to the recession.

Not all are high payers out here.....Except for a freighter airline with older/odd fleet has to compensate for the staff working on type......Rest of the players are low payers.....DGCA salaries are still lower.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 88, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 11710 times:

SpiceJet To Order 30-40 737MAX? (by LAXDESI Oct 24 2012 in Civil Aviation)

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 89, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11606 times:

Is there a demand for so many Aircraft currently....


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 90, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 11501 times:

Martinair Cargo are operating to BOM twice weekly 747F their third destination.

User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 91, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11420 times:

Virgin Atlantic open to buying into Indian Airlines: Sir Richard Branson. I wonder if GOI would be interested in some sort of structured bankruptcy for IT if Virgin was interested in buying.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...d-branson/articleshow/16962490.cms

Quote:
Virgin Group owner British billionaire Sir Richard Branson, who landed in India Thursday for launching new flights connecting Indian with the UK and the US, wants to keep his eyes open to investment opportunities in Indian airlines.

"Now foreign companies have been allowed to pick up 49% so we are keeping our eyes open. It's a brave battle going on in the Indian aviation space now. Everybody is bleeding. There will be a right time and we will watch," Branson said at a prelaunch party at the Taj ManSingh hotel at New Delhi.


User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 504 posts, RR: 1
Reply 92, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11358 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 89):
Is there a demand for so many Aircraft currently....

The 737Max won't be available currently would it.... but yes in the coming years the demand will be there for sure.



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlineblr380 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 11289 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 91):

Probably makes sense since they are restarting BOM route. Also plans to add BLR and HYD pending approvals. Note that BLR and BOM were x-IT routes to LHR. It will be nice to see the revival of IT if this deal goes thro.


User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 504 posts, RR: 1
Reply 94, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 11169 times:

Quoting blr380 (Reply 93):
Note that BLR and BOM were x-IT routes to LHR. It will be nice to see the revival of IT if this deal goes thro.

On that topic, may I ask what happened with the KF slots at LHR? If they are still there could they go to VS?



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlinecaliatenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 95, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 11139 times:

Quoting blr380 (Reply 93):

Probably makes sense since they are restarting BOM route. Also plans to add BLR and HYD pending approvals. Note that BLR and BOM were x-IT routes to LHR. It will be nice to see the revival of IT if this deal goes thro.

wouldnt mind VS at BLR. Gives people another option to the US and Europe.


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 96, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11119 times:

The Delhi Airport Express finds itself in a spot of bother with the operator wanting out of the deal claiming they make a huge loss every month. The idea of the Airport Express was great, but sole connectivity to T3 and not connecting T1D at DEL was a huge mistake



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 97, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11106 times:

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 92):
but yes in the coming years the demand will be there for sure.

But can the quantity of demand out here justify a good business decision.....



Cavok air AN74.....at VABB......what sector does it operate.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 504 posts, RR: 1
Reply 98, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11102 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 96):
The idea of the Airport Express was great, but sole connectivity to T3 and not connecting T1D at DEL was a huge mistake

I think they did not connect to 1D because in subsequent years the plan of DIAL is to shift all domestic operations to T3 and shift international ops to a new terminal, as far as I have heard.

But then this is a huge mistake for now, as with KF out of the picture, we literally have more than a half of domestic ops from 1D and people who actually need to use the Airport Express fly through there. Also I have barely seen any international travelers using it so yes, I think The Airport Express might even shut down if Govt doesn't step in and do something.



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 99, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11070 times:

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 94):
On that topic, may I ask what happened with the KF slots at LHR? If they are still there could they go to VS?
IT still has their slot pairs at LHR.

[Edited 2012-10-27 05:50:14]


Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 100, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10846 times:

SilkAir launches first direct flight between Singapore and Visakhapatnam. Is there sufficient traffic between Visakhapatnam and any of the Gulf destination to warrant a non-stop.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...khapatnam/articleshow/16998352.cms

Quote:
"With introduction of the service, which will run thrice a week, SilkAir became the first airline to provide non-stop international air connectivity from Visakhapatnam," said SilkAir Chief Executive Leslie Thng.

The first flight connecting Visakhapatnam with Singapore landed here this evening. It is also the first direct international flight from the city.


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 101, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 10613 times:

Indigo expects to be profitable this fiscal year, and expects other carriers to be profitable too.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...oo-indigo/articleshow/17018588.cms


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 102, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10606 times:

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 98):
But then this is a huge mistake for now, as with KF out of the picture, we literally have more than a half of domestic ops from 1D and people who actually need to use the Airport Express fly through there. Also I have barely seen any international travelers using it so yes, I think The Airport Express might even shut down if Govt doesn't step in and do something.

Half? I would guess the number is closer to 75% after KFA shut down, even though AI and 9W use DEL as a major domestic hub, DEL is 6E's top hub, last time I flew out of DEL 1D, I saw 15 6E 320's during the evening rush hour. I agree the Gov't needs to reform the Airport Express project for it to be viable; but Reliance Infra did bite off more than they could chew.



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 103, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10388 times:

UAE-based Etihad Airways launches Abu Dhabi-Ahmedabad flight. I am sure this flight will capture some of the NA/UK-Gujarat.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...ad-flight/articleshow/17062447.cms

Quote:
Etihad Airways, the national airline of the UAE, has launched flights between Abu Dhabi and Ahmedabad, making it the airline's ninth destination in India. The Abu Dhabi-based Airlines, which launched the flight yesterday, now flies to nine Indian destinations including New Delhi, Chennai, Mumbai, Kozhikode, Thiruvananthapuram, Hyderabad, Bangalore and Kochi.

"Our daily, two-class A320 service to Ahmedabad is another step in expanding our presence on the Indian Subcontinent and connecting key strategic cities with Abu Dhabi," Hogan said.


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 104, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10121 times:

Dragonair launches four-times-weekly Kolkata-Hong Kong service.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...g-service/articleshow/17076000.cms

Quote:
The carrier is the only airline offering a scheduled non-stop service be-tween Hong Kong and Kolkata, with the service operated by Airbus A320 aircraft. Kolkata is the second Indian destination for the airline along with Bengaluru.


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 105, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10088 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 104):
Dragonair launches four-times-weekly Kolkata-Hong Kong service.
CCU-HKG-JFK is about 700nm longer(2 hours) than CCU-DXB-JFK. So not a deal breaker.

CCU-HKG-LAX/SFO is about 1300nm shorter(3 hours) than CCU-DXB-LAX/SFO. I am sure CX will take some of the CCU-NA traffic away from EK and others.

Jet Airways related news from Business Standard:
Jet Airways will increase the capacity on international routes through a mix of aircraft reconfiguration and deploying the Airbus A330-300 planes which have 30 additional seats than the similar type aircraft in its fleet. The airline will retain the existing fleet size as it planning to sell or lease the airbus A330-200s in its fleet.

Also the airline is reconfiguring five Boeing 777 planes adding more seats in the economy section. The economy section in the Boeing 777 has nine seats in a row and the airline will be adding an extra seat in each row (increasing it to 10). The reconfiguration exercise will be complete by January. The airline has leased out its five 777s to Thai Airways.

The airline posted a consolidated loss of Rs 166 crore($30 million) in second quarter FY 2013. Although losses narrowed down from Rs 713 crore($130 million) in same period last year airline continued to bear the brunt of high operating costs.

Edited to add numbers in US$.

[Edited 2012-11-03 15:03:55]

User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 106, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 9886 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 105):
Also the airline is reconfiguring five Boeing 777 planes adding more seats in the economy section. The economy section in the Boeing 777 has nine seats in a row and the airline will be adding an extra seat in each row (increasing it to 10). The reconfiguration exercise will be complete by January. The airline has leased out its five 777s to Thai Airways.

Sad, I flew Y on a 9W 77W DEL-LHR-DEL and the service and seats were great, moving to 10 across is very passenger unfriendly, although it ought to help 9W make more money...

In other news, Nusli Wadia gave an interview to Business Standard, the relevant parts about GoAir

Now that FDI in aviation has been cleared, will GoAir look at a foreign partner?
We are certainly exploring but the objective is not just to raise money. We are looking for a partner who can add value, and bring knowledge to the table so that the alliance is beneficial to both. If GoAir partners another airline, it will be done to provide convenience and efficient connectivity to our customers in India and those who travel to India from overseas and want domestic connectivity.

What are your plans for GoAir?
Our focus has been to first establish our brand and the business model and then pursue growth. Our fleet is young and by 2019 we will have 75 to 80 Airbus Neos, which burn 10 per cent less fuel. But I must add the Indian aviation industry is facing an unlevel playing field. We pay twice as much for fuel compared with the rest of the world and we are at the mercy of three fuel companies. Travelling by air is not a luxury any longer but a necessity. Look at the opportunity we have. Just one airline, Ryan Air, flies more passengers than the entire Indian aviation industry put together.

The current policies do not favour growth. For instance, airlines can import fuel from abroad but there is no infrastructure for airlines to store fuel either at ports or at airports. Taxation on fuel is onerous, and no other country in the world pays tax on fuel. Why should fuel be the only commodity that pays a sales tax of almost 22 per cent ad valorem and is not declared as goods? Fuel is not even subject to Modvat as is the case with other products and commodities. Our fares are lower than Europe but with double the fuel cost.



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 504 posts, RR: 1
Reply 107, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 9851 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 105):
loss of Rs 166 crore($30 million) in second quarter FY 2013.

  

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 105):
I am sure CX will take some of the CCU-NA traffic away from EK and others.

Nothing for EK to worry about if they are giving cheaper fares. For Y passengers thats what matters rather than saving 3 hrs. Plus CCU is very much underserved by Intl flights due to poor infrastructure. Hope this changes rapidly with the new terminal set to open in Jan.



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 108, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9833 times:

The latest in the KFA/IT saga

Kingfisher will not fly if it doesn't bring in capital by November 30: SBI

New Delhi: State Bank of India (SBI), the lead bank to ailing Kingfisher Airlines, on Tuesday cautioned the carrier that it "will not fly" if it fails to bring in fresh capital by November 30. "Banks' consortium has done everything possible to make the company (Kingfisher) work. Only the company is not working... The management has to get capital. We have given time till November 30 that they should get capital otherwise the company will not fly...," SBI Chairman Pratip Chaudhuri told PTI.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/kingfishe...l-by-november-30-sbi/304220-7.html



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 504 posts, RR: 1
Reply 109, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9816 times:

Just out of curiosity, what was a KF 332 doing in ZRH in June '12 as shown in the following pic?

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Swiss...d=caa9d9329813170daafbd0219f7f9aef



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlineVIDP From India, joined Feb 2010, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 110, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9802 times:

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 109):
Just out of curiosity, what was a KF 332 doing in ZRH in June '12 as shown in the following pic?

They are stored in ZRH


User currently offlineHeavierthanair From Switzerland, joined Oct 2000, 797 posts, RR: 0
Reply 111, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9814 times:

G´day

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 109):
Just out of curiosity, what was a KF 332 doing in ZRH in June '12 as shown in the following pic?

Passing through last week I saw three of them parked in ZRH. Presumably awaiting a new owner.   


Cheers

Peter



"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879
User currently offlineviasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1880 posts, RR: 6
Reply 112, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9805 times:

Three of the five former KF A330s were stored in ZRH - the other two were in BOD.

User currently offlineVimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 14
Reply 113, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 9800 times:

Civil Aviation Minister Ajit Singh approved Traffic Rights for Indian Carriers for Three Seasons Beginning Winter 2012;
Introduction of new international sectors and progressive increase in number of flights to boost growth of Indian carriers;

Fresh bilateral negotiations proposed for additional traffic rights. Countries with whom discussions will be opened include Singapore, Thailand, Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Iraq, Macau and Afghanistan.

Read the press information bureau release here

brgds//Vimanav



Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 504 posts, RR: 1
Reply 114, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 9795 times:

Quoting from the link:

Quote:

Air India:
Delhi-Rome-Madrid/ Barcelona;
Delhi-Moscow;
Delhi-Sydney/ Melbourne;
Mumbai-Nairobi;
Mumbai-Al Najaf (Iraq)

Jet Airways:

Mumbai-Jakarta;
Delhi-Barcelona;
Mumbai-Zurich;
Delhi-Tashkent;
Mumbai-Ho Chi Minh City

Spicejet:

Lucknow- Al Najaf (Iraq);
Varanasi- Al Najaf (Iraq);
Delhi-Macau;
Delhi-Ho Chi Minh City

Apart from DEL-SYD/MEL, BOM-NBO, and flights to SGN I have no idea about other routes. I don't even suppose most of these routes will even be taken by the respective airlines, esp 9W to ZRH and BCN, when the airline is actually cutting back on fleet size. However any India-Spain flight would be a huge welcome, as it is the largest Euro nation unserved with flights from India.

I hope someone can shed light on this.



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 115, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 9791 times:

SpiceJet's 737 for a five hour flight? But I expect both Saigon and Macau to be popular routes. 9W's routes to Jakarta and Tashkent are a plus.
But no new additions to Indigo? That has me surprised.



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 116, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 9775 times:

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 114):
Mumbai-Al Najaf (Iraq)

AI has potential for pilgrim traffic and possibly labour too on this.


User currently onlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3233 posts, RR: 9
Reply 117, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9776 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 115):
But no new additions to Indigo? That has me surprised.

I wonder if 6E will get a separate presser for their expansion plans  ?

Quoting Vimanav (Reply 113):
Fresh bilateral negotiations proposed for additional traffic rights. Countries with whom discussions will be opened include Singapore, Thailand, Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Iraq, Macau and Afghanistan.

What happened to QR in this round of expansions? Surely they need additional feed from India to feed their massive expansion plans.



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 118, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9773 times:

Quoting Nimish (Reply 117):
What happened to QR in this round of expansions? Surely they need additional feed from India to feed their massive expansion plans.

Now that Qatar will join OW, there could be a rise in demand for passengers flying Doha and beyond. QR connects to 12 cities in India and have unused seat allocations of 6000 per week. Qatar has room to expand to certain points within the existing frame of the air service agreement.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 119, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9777 times:

Just for the record,

India - DXB Bilateral frequencies as of today stands:

Indian carriers: 200 flights per week
Dubai Carriers: 194 flights per week



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 120, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 9772 times:

'Full-fledged integration of AI, IA in three to four months'.
http://zeenews.india.com/business/ne...in-three-to-four-months_64179.html

Quote:
"There are certain issues like salary discrepancy and service ranks to be looked into before completing integration of the airlines in three to four months," he said, speaking at a meet-the-press programme at Calicut Press Club here.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 121, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9753 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 120):

Getting the Employees to co-Exist........Biggest challenge....



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinetayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9763 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 118):
Now that Qatar will join OW, there could be a rise in demand for passengers flying Doha and beyond. QR connects to 12 cities in India and have unused seat allocations of 6000 per week. Qatar has room to expand to certain points within the existing frame of the air service agreement.

At what cost ?

Ojas, i've lived in the ME, After a while you get dazzled by the razz-ma-tazz. When i left the ME, Fuel was doing $18/bl and Qatar was the biggest moaner, QR had started with B727 then.

Don't dream of $100/BL forever..........................



''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
User currently offlinetayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 123, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9761 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 119):
Just for the record,

India - DXB Bilateral frequencies as of today stands:

Indian carriers: 200 flights per week
Dubai Carriers: 194 flights per weekA lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep

Just for the Stats, can you also add the Aircraft types, per flt each week, Dubai and India. And Whilst you are at it why don't you also give the SEAT figures, will be interesting reading it ALL.



''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3947 posts, RR: 18
Reply 124, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9773 times:

I was listening to Mumbai working the traffic across the Arabian Sea earlier today and JAI556 got a bit of a grilling for failing to give his AIREP in the correct format! Routing is Kochin to Doha via airway M300 IGAMA OSIRI NITIX MESAN LEMAX KADOL. Aircraft was B738 VT-JGS. Frequency was 8879 KHz.

I uploaded the audio to sendspace : http://www.sendspace.com/file/ggqh55


User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 504 posts, RR: 1
Reply 125, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9734 times:

Quoting RobK (Reply 124):

Haha that was real hammering in desi style.   



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 126, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 9716 times:

Firstly, Happy Diwali to everyone here, one of my long time wishes is to land at DEL on Diwali evening - preferably on 27 or 28. Last night they were using 28 for domestic arrivals and the approach over South Delhi's tonier neighbourhoods must have been a spectacular light show.

But at least Delhi's approach path on all runways (even 27) is fairly clean; I doubt people can play with aerial fireworks on the 27 approach or take-off path in Mumbai. Even if the fireworks only go up a 100-200 feet it must be dangerous. I have often thought how bad a situation which involved landing short like BA 008 would be at BOM...

My last landing approach into BOM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svmVHUpdKCc



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 504 posts, RR: 1
Reply 127, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 9839 times:

Though there may be regulations against use of high-reaching fireworks near runway approaches, I seriously doubt they could cause any harm to an aircraft or its flight path.... only until they enter the engines.


If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 128, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 9840 times:

Quoting RobK (Reply 124):

Quite a few of that on 127.90 too  

KFA 3rd salary before Diwali has been unsucessfull sadly......



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 129, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9831 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 128):
KFA 3rd salary before Diwali has been unsucessfull sadly......

I was genuinely surprised they paid the first two... lets see what happens now, in any case it is unlikely that Kingfisher will ever take to the skies again. Feels very strange flying into BOM and DEL without any KFA birds around the gates...



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 130, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9830 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 129):
Feels very strange flying into BOM and DEL without any KFA birds around the gates...

As long as the stranded Aircraft are returned back to the lesors....& not dumped around the country aka 1997-98.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 131, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9826 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 130):
As long as the stranded Aircraft are returned back to the lesors....& not dumped around the country aka 1997-98.

At least half the 15-odd planes registered to KFA still remaining in India are not in a flyaway condition, lessors would love some of them back (not so sure about the AT7's, don't see much demand there)



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlinevishaljo From India, joined Aug 2006, 473 posts, RR: 4
Reply 132, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 9837 times:

AI 787 Economy Class:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vishal Jolapara - Indian Aviation Photographers



User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 133, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9803 times:

According to the GDS, AI will start daily DEL - DAC services from 03rd December 2012 using an A320

The schedule is as follows

AI 231 DEL - DAC 0545 0845 2hrs 30mins
AI 232 DAC - DEL 0945 1145 2hrs 30mins

Aircraft: A320

Connections to LHR, MCT, DXB sre on offer, timings of some flights are expected to be tweaked for further expansion of connections.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineVIDP From India, joined Feb 2010, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 134, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9802 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 128):
KFA 3rd salary before Diwali has been unsucessfull sadly......

Finally paid the same ... It will be nothing less than a miracle if KFA bounces back.


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 135, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9779 times:

Quoting VIDP (Reply 134):
Finally paid the same ... It will be nothing less than a miracle if KFA bounces back.

Wasn't the schedule to pay a few more months before the end of the year?



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineGr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3106 posts, RR: 4
Reply 136, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9792 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 133):
Connections to LHR, MCT, DXB sre on offer, timings of some flights are expected to be tweaked for further expansion of connections.

AI seem to be slowly building the DEL hub......hopefully, so will 9W.....looks like DEL has some chance of becoming an important regional hub.......


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 137, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9784 times:

Quoting VIDP (Reply 134):

Finally paid the same ... It will be nothing less than a miracle if KFA bounces back.

Looks like VJM is hoping for a Foreign Investor after his Initiall Investment & a fresh start up Indian Investor & then VJM will sell out & make a quiet exit.....



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 138, posted (1 year 10 months 5 hours ago) and read 9741 times:

Effective Dec 10th SG will launch daily flights to COK from DXB


SG 017 COK - DXB 1710 1950 4hrs 10mins

SG 018 DXB - COK 2045 0225+1 4hrs 10mins

Daily B737 operation



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1999 posts, RR: 24
Reply 139, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9660 times:

Quoting golfradio (Reply 15):
With BOM becoming increasinly irrelevant to AI, I am losing all interest in AI.

Exactly why I'm gaining interest in 9W and hoping they get into Star.


User currently onlinegolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 766 posts, RR: 2
Reply 140, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9639 times:

Quoting ytz (Reply 139):
9W and hoping they get into Star

Amen.   


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6914 posts, RR: 63
Reply 141, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9586 times:

Good grief. My office is under the flight path going into BLR. An AI 787 has just flown over on approach. Cool.

User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 142, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9503 times:

Spicejet To Launch Operations To Saudi Arabia (by ojas Nov 22 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Daily DEL - RUH.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3106 posts, RR: 4
Reply 143, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9389 times:

Quoting ytz (Reply 139):
Quoting golfradio (Reply 15):With BOM becoming increasinly irrelevant to AI, I am losing all interest in AI.
Exactly why I'm gaining interest in 9W and hoping they get into Star.

Will BOM's importance change with the completion of the new terminal (which seems to be quite impressive).....?


User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 504 posts, RR: 1
Reply 144, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 9367 times:

Even if this maybe an absurd argument - Does the seat caps, limited bilaterals between India and rest of the world mean that there are less people flying into and out of India than possible? I mean does this imply that a certain person/group have less chance of flying because of the restrictions that they would've had there been none?


If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 145, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 9385 times:

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 143):
Will BOM's importance change with the completion of the new terminal (which seems to be quite impressive).....?

In AI's network, the impact will be marginal at best. AI is sensibly trying to build its DEL hub to critical mass at this point, so adding BOM connections would just make for a further disjointed network.

As a whole, a new terminal will definitely improve connectivity for BOM.

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 144):
Even if this maybe an absurd argument - Does the seat caps, limited bilaterals between India and rest of the world mean that there are less people flying into and out of India than possible? I mean does this imply that a certain person/group have less chance of flying because of the restrictions that they would've had there been none?

I honestly have absolutely no clue what you're trying to say.

Every country limits bilaterals. Some, like Canada, do it moreso than others. Indian politicians sell our bilats anyway, so ours are much more flexible than they could be.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 504 posts, RR: 1
Reply 146, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9323 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 145):
I honestly have absolutely no clue what you're trying to say.

rough e.g. If 1000 people wanted to go DEL-SIN in a year, but there are only 600 seats on all flights (direct and indirect), the other 400 people are unable to go at all. So doesn't this mean less people are going to SIN due to seat cap?



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 147, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9295 times:

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 143):
Quoting ytz (Reply 139):
Quoting golfradio (Reply 15):With BOM becoming increasinly irrelevant to AI, I am losing all interest in AI.
Exactly why I'm gaining interest in 9W and hoping they get into Star.

Will BOM's importance change with the completion of the new terminal (which seems to be quite impressive).....?

I'm sure the new T2 will help Mumbai, there was a Nat Geo show on it as well, but no mater how impressive the terminal is, BOM is hamstrung by space, the new terminal cannot compete with DEL T3 in terms of size and short of demolishing existing terminals once the new terminal is complete, BOM's expansion will be complete.

And then there is the simple issue of runway capacity... which is why DEL will continue to grow a heck of a lot faster than BOM



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 148, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9159 times:

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 146):
rough e.g. If 1000 people wanted to go DEL-SIN in a year, but there are only 600 seats on all flights (direct and indirect), the other 400 people are unable to go at all. So doesn't this mean less people are going to SIN due to seat cap?

No.

Loads to/from India are not anywhere near 100%.

More flexible bilaterals would allow more competition, driving down fares, which would stimulate demand, yes, but there are serious side effects of those kinds of actions.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineVIDP From India, joined Feb 2010, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 149, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 9140 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 147):
I'm sure the new T2 will help Mumbai, there was a Nat Geo show on it as well, but no mater how impressive the terminal is, BOM is hamstrung by space, the new terminal cannot compete with DEL T3 in terms of size and short of demolishing existing terminals once the new terminal is complete, BOM's expansion will be complete.

And then there is the simple issue of runway capacity... which is why DEL will continue to grow a heck of a lot faster than BOM

Well said what we also need to understand that people staying in southern india who were more reliant on Mumbai Airport for their international travel have now options available from their own home airports while the same is not the case with Northern region.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 150, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9041 times:

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 143):
Will BOM's importance change with the completion of the new terminal (which seems to be quite impressive).....?

and taking Forever to complete......



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13114 posts, RR: 100
Reply 151, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 8977 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Does this mean anything?
Naresh Goyal promoted Jet airways has reason to cheer as the civil aviation ministry might give them permission to join Star Alliance simultaneously with state owned Air India . Prior to this, the government wanted the Star Alliance, comprising 27 airlines across the globe, to decide positively on Air India’s membership first.


Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 152, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 9002 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 151):
Does this mean anything?

Nope.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineVimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 14
Reply 153, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8802 times:

In the India-Oman bilaterals, 16016 seats granted to Oman (an v.v.) divided as follows:

to
DEL/BOM/HYD/MAA - 14 flights each per week
BLR/CCJ/JAI/COK/TRV/LKO - 7 weekly services each
GOI - 6 weekly services

brgds//Vimanav



Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
User currently offlineAirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 154, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8704 times:

Quoting Vimanav (Reply 153):
In the India-Oman bilaterals, 16016 seats granted to Oman (an v.v.) divided as follows

Good news for WY as it will help their expansion plans. Work on the New terminal in MCT is cuurently in full swing.


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 155, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8637 times:

Quoting Vimanav (Reply 153):
In the India-Oman bilaterals, 16016 seats granted to Oman (an v.v.) divided as follows:

to
DEL/BOM/HYD/MAA - 14 flights each per week
BLR/CCJ/JAI/COK/TRV/LKO - 7 weekly services each
GOI - 6 weekly services

So will Indigo or Spicejet get any new services to MCT?



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 156, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8556 times:

From the Indian side at present only 6E has indicated plans to expand to MCT with BOM - MCT going daily from current 4 weekly and new daily flights from MCT to COK and MAA each.


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 157, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8351 times:

According to the GDS, effective Jan 2013, EY will increase flights on the AUH - CCJ route from 3 weekly to daily. With this EY will have 63 weekly flights to India across 9 destinations. The AUH - CCJ route is operated by AIX as well.


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 158, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8134 times:

http://www.menafn.com/menafn/1093584...kly-Gulf-flights-to-112-two-months

6E is to expand operations out of Dubai. IXE, CCJ and TRV will be added from DXB along with a second daily BOM - DXB.

This will increase 6E operations to DXB upto 70 weekly flights.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 159, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8098 times:

Whats the news of KFA.
What about the salaries of AI & 9W.......



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 160, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 8070 times:

From the Times of India: Kolkata only major metro to show increase in domestic air traffic year-over-year; Bangalore shows steepest decline.

See "Bangalore airport sees sharp decline in domestic traffic" : http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...c-traffic/articleshow/17451774.cms

Decline of KF likely explains the decline of BLR domestic traffic, though surprised to see the other metros decline as well. I guess CCU was least exposed to KF.


User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 504 posts, RR: 1
Reply 161, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8010 times:

Quoting sankaps (Reply 160):

I expect both domestic and intl traffic increase much more through the next Spring at CCU. That is if all goes to plan with the Jan opening of the new terminal.



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(