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Perfect European Hub.  
User currently offlineRJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1944 posts, RR: 12
Posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1769 times:

Hi:

What is the perfect European Hub? A difficult question because exist many perfect airport for be a excellent hub. Frankfurt, Paris CDG and London. And now we can add the airports of Milan and Rome with the entrance of Alitalia into SkyTeam Alliance.
Frankfurt and Paris CDG I think that airports are the perfect to connect in Europe to another destination, because there are in the center of the continent and near of many European cities in less of one hour. London has two busiest airport and the main problem for a fast connection is that you need to travel to another airport for take your next flight. I think that is one problem of British Airways connections. For example I arrive to Gatwick coming from South America and my next flight to Cairo leave from Heathrow. So I need spend part of my day travel between the London airports. Altough in Paris and Frankfurt I can connect in the same airport in a less of one hour perfect i don't need spend many hours in a airport to take my next flights.
For me it's not a problem because I love stay in the airport but for the common travelers or the businessmen it's a problem.
So I think that the Star Alliance and Skyteam have a advantage than Oneworld. The Star Alliance has hub in Frankfurt and Vienna. Sky Team has in Paris CDG, Prague and the newest hub in Milan Malpènsa and Rome. And Oneworld has hub in London (LHR and LGW) and Madrid.
I think that if London wants to be a greatest Hub in the future mustbuild a new big airport to attent the demand of the North Atlantic, European, Middle East and Asia routes.

What do you think about the perfect European hub?

RJ_Delta.

63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3309 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1520 times:

I am surprised you didn't mention Amsterdam Schiphol. It has one terminal which makes it easy to change planes. Compare that to the mess you come into when you have to change terminals at LHR.

Another advantage is that Amsterdam has only one airport. Cause if you believe changing terminals is hard, changing airport is quite harder.

Also nice is the observation platform. Just in case your flight doesn't leave soon. There are also a lot of other facilities such as shops, restaurants etc. But I guess those can be found at every airport. (I am not an experienced flyer (yet?))



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineRJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1944 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1453 times:

Hi:

The Amsterdam's Schiphol is a great airport but you don't have many possibilities to connect to different destination like Frankfurt, Paris or London. But your opinion is right Amsterdam offer good options for the conecction, specially for european destiantion.

RJ_Delta.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6344 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1437 times:

RJ_Delta,

What connections do CDG,LHR, and FRA have that are not at AMS.


User currently offlineRJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1944 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1416 times:

Bobnwa:

I said that because in CDG; FRA and LHR you have more choice because these cities are served by more airlines than AMS. In AMS you have good optins because KLM serve a lot of number of destinations from this point.

RJ_Delta.


User currently offlineDutchWings From Netherlands, joined Jan 2001, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks ago) and read 1411 times:

Almost al the European destinations that are served by CDG FRA and LHR are also served by AMS. Do you really know the airport?????

User currently offlineRJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1944 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks ago) and read 1409 times:

Dutch Wings:

So, please give the information of all airlines which fly to Amsterdam Schiphol.

RJ_Delta.


User currently offlineOO-AOG From Switzerland, joined Dec 2000, 1426 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks ago) and read 1405 times:

Isn't AMS traffic limited due to environmental problems and even KLM studied a couple of years ago to move their hub elsewhere?


Falcon....like a limo but with wings
User currently offline777-200LRpilot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks ago) and read 1404 times:

Gotta love Schiphol to transfer.

User currently offlineTripple7 From Netherlands, joined Aug 1999, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1387 times:

I just have to say, that I think FRA and AMS are the best two hubs in Europe. Many destinations and both airports are easy to find your way around and have many shops and restaurants (especially Schiphol).

tripple 7


User currently offlineMD-87ER From Austria, joined Aug 2001, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1380 times:

You were mentioning CDG before. In my opinion CDG is not a good airport to change flights. Ok, some of the terminals might have a futuristic touch, but to transfer there.... (same probleme in LHR).
The problem comes with the size: You start with a terminal, than over the time you add a terminal building here and there and than you end up with something like CDG. And than if you want to change from one terminal to the other it takes you forever.
If you ask me, out of the big three in Europe (LHR, FRA and CDG) FRA is certainly one of the best aiports in Europe to change flights.
But if size is not important (and I am sure in most cases it is not, because you get the same connecting-destinations) than there are a lot of good "mid-size" hubs, like ZHR, BRU, VIE,....
(don't blame me for the aiports I didn't mention)


User currently offlineDabomb4944 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1377 times:

Munich is a great airport and LH is bulding it into a hub

User currently offlineRJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1944 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1367 times:

Hi:

München, Zurich, Vienna are alternative airports for connect with another flights. Lufthansa is developing a excellent hub in Munich in a very short time.
CDG probably has a similar problems like LHR because you need to travel within the terminals (Terminal 1 and Terminal 2). Only the connection in the Terminal 2 (Air France's hub) is perfect for connect.

Frankfurt is the best.

RJ_Delta.


User currently offlineTriley1057 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 1999, 459 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1355 times:

AMS all the way. I do really love VIE too even though it isn't a mega hub. It's a really beautiful airport with a lot of interesting airlines from the east.

User currently offlineGmjh_air From Sweden, joined Aug 2000, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1346 times:

Don't forget Copenhagen, eventhough a bit on the outskirts of central Europe, a great airport, with all major destinations served.

The bigger players mentioned earlier LHR, FRA, CDG is too big to be convenient. AMS I've never been to but I'd guess it's the same thing there.



User currently offlineAirblue From San Marino, joined May 2001, 1825 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1335 times:

I want add to the list Milan MXP, cause it's only one terminal for all scheduled and you don't have to walk so much, plus is in a great position for Middle-South Europe.

User currently offlineAirbus_forever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1329 times:

I want to say that Arlanda ARN is a very good airport.. not much delays. Okay.. ARN doesn´t have as many Destinations as AMS or LHR but it´s the best airport in the world if you ask me.. i haven´t been to every airport in the world... but it´s so beautiful but it would be even better wih an observation deck.. i don´t know why they took it away from us... to bad..

User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6344 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1310 times:

RJ_Delta,

AMS has service to as many countries as do LHR,FRA and CDG and by as many carriers. As well as KLM flying to all these countries, the route also has the flag carrier of that country. This would be the same as LHR,FRA and CDG. You do not see AF flying from LHR to FRA nor do you see LH flying from CDG to FCO.

Again, give me some countries that do not have the service out of AMS that the other airports have.


User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1299 times:

Allthough I agree that AMS is a great hub (and voted the best European Airport several times) AMS is lacking some less important destinations like Ho Chi Minh, Jeddah, Sana'a, Salvador, Minsk and Samara and other small European destinations. However, FRA can't match the number of flights to/from the U.K you have at AMS.

Anyway, what's important is the number of flights and destinations (and NOT the number of airlines) and how easy it is to transfer at an airport. If you take these things into account, AMS is (almost?) equal to airports like CDG and FRA.

Regards
Laurens


User currently offlineAirbus380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1291 times:

I think either AMS or HEL. AMS has KLM there and gate room is therefore limited. But, HEL has Finnair, which isn't that big in the grand scheme of things. HEL is smaller and can easily be expanded.

A380


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19097 posts, RR: 53
Reply 20, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1282 times:

It is clear that everyone has stated the obvious and what already exists; that of large European hubs.

AMS, CDG and LHR must have been, in days gone by, perfectly suited for an airline to build up a comprehensive network. This can be seen at CDG and LHR, both of which are now large - perhaps too big -airports. But they are, nevertheless, decent and in the main efficient hubs through which one can transfer.

As previously stated, AMS is, in comparison to CDG and LHR, smaller, and the destinations served isn't as large. But when one compares the size of the Netherlands to France and England, it becomes abundantly clear that, for such a small country, AMS is a large European airport. Add to this the fact that there is only one large terminal, connecting at AMS is perhaps a worthwhile and enjoyable experience.

I think we need to consider the other, smaller airports, and contemplate whether the possibility of serious growth is an option. Please state your case, and present an argument for and against the creation of a new hub. Try also to answer: "If [your stated city] is in such a great position to become a large hub, why hasn't it already become one?" Try to look at the various reasons.

Pe@rson, aka James, currently in Delhi.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineFa4af From France, joined Jan 2001, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1278 times:

Although I agree AMS is great to transfer, thanks to its everything-under-one-roof concept, you cannot compare it to FRA, LHR or CDG. Do you realize there are over 12,000 connecting opportunities each week and each way out of CDG, against 7,000 at FRA and 4,000 at LHR ? So where does AMS fit in here ? In terms of business, plus the fact that 91% of Air France flights are non-stop, CDG is the European key. In terms of shops, distractions and viewing areas, AMS has got to be the best airport in the world...But we have to compare comparable things i.e., the hub at AMS deals with as many flights as CDG terminal 2 F, D and C, at most, in which case you would realize that transferring between those terminals at CDG is as easy if not easier than at AMS. In fact CDG is among the airports where the distance between the public area and boarding areas is the shortest. I recall walking miles at AMS...

User currently offlineFa4af From France, joined Jan 2001, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1273 times:

Although I agree AMS is great to transfer, thanks to its everything-under-one-roof concept, you cannot compare it to FRA, LHR or CDG. Do you realize there are over 12,000 connecting opportunities each week and each way out of CDG, against 7,000 at FRA and 4,000 at LHR ? So where does AMS fit in here ? In terms of business, plus the fact that 91% of Air France flights are non-stop, CDG is the European key. In terms of shops, distractions and viewing areas, AMS has got to be the best airport in the world...But we have to compare comparable things i.e., the hub at AMS deals with as many flights as CDG terminal 2 F, D and C, at most, in which case you would realize that transferring between those terminals at CDG is as easy if not easier than at AMS. In fact CDG is among the airports where the distance between the public area and boarding areas is the shortest. I recall walking miles at AMS...


User currently offlineFa4af From France, joined Jan 2001, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1265 times:

While I agree AMS is great to transfer, thanks to its everything-under-one-roof concept, you cannot compare it to FRA, LHR or CDG. Do you realize there are over 12,000 connecting opportunities each week and each way out of CDG, against 7,000 at FRA and 4,000 at LHR ? So where does AMS fit in here ? In terms of business, plus the fact that 91% of Air France flights are non-stop, CDG is the European key. In terms of shops, distractions and viewing areas, AMS has got to be the best airport in the world...But we have to compare comparable things i.e., the hub at AMS deals with as many flights as CDG terminal 2 F, D and C, at most, in which case you would realize that transferring between those terminals at CDG is as easy if not easier than at AMS. In fact CDG is among the airports where the distance between the public area and boarding areas is the shortest. I recall walking miles at AMS...


User currently offlineEWRSpotter From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1262 times:

Fa4af,

Are you kidding? CDG is an absolute disaster for connections. In my most recent adventure a few weeks ago, I arrived at 2D via a jetway (a privilege at CDG) only to be presented wit 2 options: "Correspondence" (arrow to the left) & "Correspondence" (arrow to the right). ????? I had to know which terminal my next flight was in before I made that decision, BUT THERE WERE NO DEPARTURE MONITORS.

After following one arrow and determining it lead to customs, I followed the the second one which eventually led me to the monitors indicating I needed to head on over to 2F. Then, we had to deal with the mobs of people trying to catch a bus. After I got to 2F, I stood in line infront of the monitor displaying my destination (Istanbul) & flight number, only to be told I was in the wrong line. This is check in sir, not boarding. To board, I was to queue up infront of the monitor indicating the flight to Budapest. I suppose this is French logic at work.

I asked a AF rep, in French, why we were queuing up for the flight to Istanbul infront of the "Budapest" monitor. Why couldn't ADP just put some sort of indication that this is the Istanbul queue, rather than force us to wander aimlessly looking for our gate. "Et bien, c'est aeroport est vieux, it faut completement le refaire!" ("This airport is old, we have to completely re-do it!").

We were now in the alleged gate waiting area... or so I thought. The a/c connected to my gate's jetway didn't have winglets. Sort of odd, I thought, for an A321. Of course, after we make our way through the jetway, we are diverted to a set of stairs and end up an yet another bus. The bus travels for 10 minutes and ends up... can you guess... back at 2D. We are dumped on the tarmac, walk up the jetway stairs, and enter the A321.

This is it. Everytime I connect at CDG, I experience some nonsense like what I described. Never again. Whenever possible, I will be using either AMS and FRA. They are both excellent hubs I recommend.

mcg


25 Airblue : Before when it was talking about CDG Vs. AMS,it was said that AMS has one terminal and CDG has 2 terminal. So seem easyer connecting in AMS than in CD
26 Post contains images EGGD : I have to agree, that AMS is probably the best airport for a hub. Changing flights is done very easy, and the commuter ramp means that you don't need
27 RJ_Delta : Bobnwa: I think taht you are right AMS is a good point for connections thanks to KLM. From AMS you travel to many destiantions specially with KLM adn
28 RJ_Delta : Guys: And what about Romeand Milan's Milapensa? There are good points to connect? I ask that because these airport are the hub of the new SkyTeam's me
29 NoUfo : > And what about Romeand Milan's Milapensa? There are good points to > connect? Wahahah, noooNOOOOnooo (*pant" *pant*). Maybe there are good points to
30 Avion : From my personal experience AMS is great. Lotsa space and moving walkways everywhere. LHR ist a nightmare for connections. So i'll say AMS is the best
31 Pe@rson : Everyone is forgetting Basel (BSL). The Swiss airport is now, thanks to Crossair, a moderately large (and growing) airport, with a reasonably comprehe
32 Gmjh_air : I don't know much about actual plans for Copenhagen (and I'd prefer Arlanda as SAS hub - but logic puts that option away). Anyway, Copenhagen today a
33 Airblue : >as far as I know a while ago Lufthansa seriously considered not to serve Milan anymore
34 Petertenthije : EGGD said: "there is lots of room to expand with 4 runways and another 4 planned (well, not going to be built maybe, it was Dellaerts plan anyway)" Fo
35 Post contains images Airsicknessbag : FRA is very comfortable to connect with standard MCTs of 45 minutes and its copactness. FRA´s a bitch, however, for originating there, since they won
36 RJ_Delta : I still consider that Frankfurt is best airport to connect although this airport is very busiest. RJ_Delta.
37 RJ_Delta : Pe@rson: Basel is perfect to connect but only for regional flights. RJ_Delta.
38 NoUFO : Pe@rson, Everyone is forgetting Basel No, I like Basel but it is still no hub compareable to FRA, BRU or CDG. Even Zurich's airport is bigger. Airblue
39 Sabena332 : Hi !!! CDG is very bad for connecting flights, i hate this airport. I made very good experience with BRU. FRA is also ok. Greetings from Germany Patri
40 D-AIFB : LHR has got 4 different terminals, which makes connecting rather complicated even when you transfer within BA or Oneworld flights, the connecting take
41 RJ_Delta : Zurich Kloten is another good option to connect in Europe. It located in the middle of the continent, perfect specially when you travel by Swissair. S
42 Teva : EWRSpotter, when you have been told "airport is old", are you sure it was terminal 2F? It is the most recent terminal, and very well designed. If you
43 Bobnwa : Teva, What do the words "correspondance" and "Schengen" and "non Schengen" mean. When I arrived in CDG from the US I say the sign saying correspondanc
44 SailorOrion : First a note to Teva: CDG has a 'curfew': The airport is not allowed to handle more than 55 Mpax within 12 months. I have used quite many European hub
45 RJ_Delta : Teva: I agree with you CDG is a great terminal and soon will be a biggest airport. In CDG you can choose to continue yor trip by plane, by car/bus or
46 Heisan67 : Amsterdam - Schiphol Copenhagen/København - Kastrup
47 Post contains links and images Tca256 : BRUSSELS FOREVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ps: I know...I know, it's not the best airfield on earth but my heart beats there !!! Click for large v
48 OPTIPLEX2001 : When we were in Amsterdam, we didn't have anytime to look at anything - my flight to Rome was waiting on us before we even landed, so I had to fly (no
49 RJ_Delta : OPTIPLEX2001: Geneva is a Swissair's hub but I don't consider as a important point for connection. Maybe in the future Geneva would be a great europea
50 Teva : By Schengen and non Schengen, I mean Intra European flight between the countries that have signed this agreement. A Schengen flight is the equivalent
51 Post contains links and images SN-A330 : BRU, what else ! Click for large versionPhoto © Alaerts Daniel
52 RJ_Delta : SN-A330: Brussels is a great airport specially in the cargo area. But do you think that the Brussels passenger terminal is small for an important euro
53 EWRSpotter : Teva writes: "in 2D, the 2 signs for correspondance that are mentionned on the post are followed by additional information: Schengen or non Schengen d
54 Vctony : I like Brussles, if only because of the Nuclear power plant shown in the photo. I believe that the closest nuclear power plant to any US airport is th
55 RJ_Delta : What is your opinion about this european airport ranking? 1-Amsterdam 2-Frankfurt 3-Brussels 4-Zurich 5-London 6-Paris CDG 7-Rome "Fiumicino" 8-Milan
56 Post contains links and images Airblue : Here some air-view of the main European hubs: FCO Click for large versionPhoto © Philippe Gindrat MUC Click for large versionPhoto © Florian
57 SK A340 : There is alot talking about CPH for a major SAS hub. I can understand why they want it there. It's because they already are big there and people is f
58 RJ_Delta : Hi SK A340: ARN is a very northern airport, perfect for connections to North Asia and North America but it's bad to travel to South of Europe. Best co
59 Paul GM : What about Newcastle, hub of Gill Airways? Paul
60 RJ_Delta : Paul GM: If I don't consider Stockholm Arlanda or another nothern airport. Newcastle is out. Newcastle is not a hub to connect into Europe or to anoth
61 Paul GM : Wot, Newcastle not a relivant airport....!!!!! I dont think Santiago is a relivant place, full stop or Egypt to be honest! Don't forget GM Airways loo
62 SailorOrion : Teva: I do really hope that Paris will get a third airport soon. and by the way I think 55 MPax will be reached earlier than than 2005...then what? Ho
63 RJ_Delta : Paul GM: Santiago is not a relevant airport but during the last years is converted in a great airport specially for the extreme South of the Continent
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