LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22240 posts, RR: 51 Posted (8 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4270 times:
Southwest hired former Federal Aviation Administrator Randolph “Randy” Babbitt as its new senior vice president of labor relations.
Babbit is a veteran pilot including 25-years with Eastern and former president of ALPA, but was forced to resign from the FAA in December 2011 after a DUI arrest which he was later cleared of.
CompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 870 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (8 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3792 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): Babbit is a veteran pilot including 25-years with Eastern and former president of ALPA, but was forced to resign from the FAA in December 2011 after a DUI arrest which he was later cleared of.
He wasn't cleared of the charge -- he was clearly intoxicated when he was pulled over. But it was found that the arresting officer had no legal reason to pull him over, therefore the charges were dismissed. Justice "prevails" when you have "friends."
tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80 Reply 4, posted (8 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3447 times:
Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 3): He wasn't cleared of the charge -- he was clearly intoxicated when he was pulled over. But it was found that the arresting officer had no legal reason to pull him over, therefore the charges were dismissed.
If the charge was dismissed he was cleared of the charged...that's what being cleared of the charge means.
That's a *totally* different thing than whether he was actually driving intoxicated.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16935 posts, RR: 57 Reply 5, posted (8 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3419 times:
Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 3): He wasn't cleared of the charge -- he was clearly intoxicated when he was pulled over. But it was found that the arresting officer had no legal reason to pull him over, therefore the charges were dismissed. Justice "prevails" when you have "friends."
Our justice system holds you innocent until proven guilty. If you are not proven guilty, you are innocent.
OJ Simpson is innocent of murder. Doesn't mean he didn't do it.
I wonder what labor-relations experience he brings.
atcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 671 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3204 times:
Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 3): He wasn't cleared of the charge -- he was clearly intoxicated when he was pulled over. But it was found that the arresting officer had no legal reason to pull him over, therefore the charges were dismissed. Justice "prevails" when you have "friends."
I don't think "friends" played a part in this. Generally when this sort of stuff comes up, those friends become suddenly unreachable. I think it's more likely that he had a really good lawyer that took advantage of a lazy cop who didn't follow procedure. He still lost his job and was all over the news for a few days, and since most states don't even require mandatory jail time for a DUI, he probably got off worse than most first time offenders despite being acquitted.
I do find it interesting that WN would bring in a former FAA boss after the several FAA actions against them over the past few years. I'll assume there's some sort of strategery there. I can't say I felt bad for him after his arrest and resignation, but the way in which it all transpired really sucked...it's good to see him back on his feet and hopefully this position will work out. At the very least he should be well suited for it.
Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 3): he was clearly intoxicated when he was pulled over.
We also have to remember DUI and DWI are two different charges and hold different consequences. Having talked to many law enforcement officials if one doesn't apply the other one usually does.
Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 3): the arresting officer had no legal reason to pull him over
As I recall the original media report in Virgina had him swerving considerably. Where public safety enters the equation if that isn't a legal reason than what is.
Lets just hope WN keeps him away from the ground support equipment.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
rickabone From United States of America, joined May 2006, 67 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (8 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2018 times:
Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 6):
He was the president of ALPA years ago. The irony of a former union head now going to be tasked to go head to head with the unions is certainly thick.
That may seem ironic here in the US, but in many other places, Germany for example, a representative of labor is required to be on the board of directors of a company. When you have someone that has labor's interests at heart in an executive position at a corporation, you can often compromise on labor issues or at least diffuse them before they get out of hand and it tends to lead to a better relationship between labor and management.
rickabone From United States of America, joined May 2006, 67 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (8 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2009 times:
Quoting mmedford (Reply 9): He didn't do so well for us as the Administrator either... no big loss I guess, good luck WN.
He did quite well for us as FAA administrator actually... Besides resolving the disputed imposed work rules with controllers and negotiating with us to compromise on a new contract, he enlisted the Union's help in moving several modernization projects forward allowing for subject matter experts to be in charge of many of the critical components of NEXTGEN such as ERAM, TAMR, new ground surveillance systems, a new training and screening program at the FAA academy etc... By enlisting the union's help they were able to suss out and solve problems that contractors like Lockheed, Raytheon, etc insisted didn't exist and weren't prepared to handle.
737tdi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 468 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (8 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1983 times:
Quoting rumorboy (Reply 2): Ya, maybe Babbit can do a better job with labor relations because Gary Kelly sure hasn'rt done much good around here
Well rumorboy, hows about we keep this kind of stuff in house. No reason not to.
I wish the new guy good luck. Maybe having a actual airline/aircraft guy in the ranks might do some good. Everybody else on top are either money or legal guys. JMO.
rumorboy From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 351 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (8 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1920 times:
Quoting 737tdi (Reply 13): Well rumorboy, hows about we keep this kind of stuff in house. No reason not to.
I understand your point of view but there is no reason to hire this guy except for the fact there is real labor problems brewing on both sides with this acquisition. Not as bad as other places especially there counterparts in DFW but it can ugly pretty quickly if they don't address the problems. Can't suger coat that. My hope like you said is it brings in a real ops guy that can do some good. Not holding my breath.
mmedford From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 536 posts, RR: 21 Reply 15, posted (8 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1778 times:
Quoting rickabone (Reply 12): He did quite well for us as FAA administrator actually... Besides resolving the disputed imposed work rules with controllers and negotiating with us to compromise on a new contract, he enlisted the Union's help in moving several modernization projects forward allowing for subject matter experts to be in charge of many of the critical components of NEXTGEN such as ERAM, TAMR, new ground surveillance systems, a new training and screening program at the FAA academy etc... By enlisting the union's help they were able to suss out and solve problems that contractors like Lockheed, Raytheon, etc insisted didn't exist and weren't prepared to handle.
Which is all great on your side of the house; but TechOps will continue to be the bastard stepchild of the ATO. With issues that stemmed from the Blakey reign.
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19813 posts, RR: 56 Reply 17, posted (8 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1645 times:
Quoting catiii (Reply 10): By what metric are you judging his performance as Administrator?
The big thing that sticks out at me from a pilot standpoint is hearing him go on and on and on about how pilot professionalism was going down the drain and how we all had to make sure that we were always being responsible and uber-professional and all. And then he got caught driving drunk.
That didn't leave a very good impression on me.
-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
skycub From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 277 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (8 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1592 times:
Quoting rumorboy (Reply 2): Ya, maybe Babbit can do a better job with labor relations because Gary Kelly sure hasn'rt done much good around here.
Quoting 737tdi (Reply 13):
Well rumorboy, hows about we keep this kind of stuff in house. No reason not to.
Interestingly enough, this thread and rumorboy's post was almost buried in "yesterday's news" until you chose to comment on it and resurrect it.
As far as keeping it in house... I doubt that the folks who read this forum also avoid such forums as the flytertalk and airlinepilotcentral forums where the labor issues have been discussed. The issues facing WN are hardly an in-house secret to anyone who knows where to look for them. The fact that things are not hunky-dory-Herb-era-fantastic at Southwest is hardly a well-kept secret.
Quoting rumorboy (Reply 14):
I understand your point of view but there is no reason to hire this guy except for the fact there is real labor problems brewing on both sides with this acquisition. Not as bad as other places especially there counterparts in DFW but it can ugly pretty quickly if they don't address the problems. Can't suger coat that. My hope like you said is it brings in a real ops guy that can do some good. Not holding my breath.
Again....
[Edited 2012-10-16 20:06:51]
My opinions are my own. They are not representative of my employer, my union or my co-workers. They are all mine.
usflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 498 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (8 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1549 times:
Quoting skycub (Reply 18): The fact that things are not hunky-dory-Herb-era-fantastic at Southwest is hardly a well-kept secret.
Maybe that's why Herb left when he did... He probably knew all of the labor contracts he negotiated were unsustainable and he definitely wasn't going to be the bad guy to his "family".
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else, any company or any un
Silver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4553 posts, RR: 26 Reply 20, posted (8 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1461 times:
Quoting usflyguy (Reply 19): Maybe that's why Herb left when he did... He probably knew all of the labor contracts he negotiated were unsustainable and he definitely wasn't going to be the bad guy to his "family".
Are you being serious? What, did you expect Herb to work forever?
By the way, I'm pretty sure all work groups have been through one or more contract negotiations with GK at this point.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
stratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1622 posts, RR: 3 Reply 21, posted (8 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1447 times:
Quoting mmedford (Reply 15): Which is all great on your side of the house; but TechOps will continue to be the bastard stepchild of the ATO. With issues that stemmed from the Blakey reign.
Jeez when is TechOps not the bastard step child? I know I am sorry I ever became an A@P..A totally thankless career.
rumorboy From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 351 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (8 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1280 times:
By the way, I truly believe what Gary Kelly is trying to do with the company is to be in the best possible position to grow. I think 737MAX, 737-800's, retiring the classics, keeping the balance sheet as low as possible as far as leverage goes, buying Airtran and getting rid of the 717 is all good in the long term. Short term, not so good. The vision that he is laying out is good. The execution though is nothing short of disastrous.
This is not Herbs airline anymore. This is a mature airline with mature costs and mature problems. That's part of any business, not just airlines. If you think if Herb was here and everything would just be alright, that's fantasy. 650 plus airplanes, 3000 flights a day and 45,000 employees is a lot to manage. Trying to keep costs a bay is a tall order. Especially when the airline hasn't grown airframes in a few years. The trick is to try to get the employees to help steer the ship into the future. That means making changes that although have worked well in the past, can be done better and more efficient in other ways. Its even harder when you have been/are the most profitable airline in history. Tall order for any CEO, whether its GK or HK.
25 ouboy79: Could things have been executed better? Definitely. Is it a disaster right now? Not really. A lot of what I see is a company in need to finally reinv
26 rumorboy: Well, you don't hire Randy Babbit because times are good on the labor front. Rampers filed for federal mediation. SWAPA voted not to represent Airtra
27 GentFromAlaska: Gary Kelly was interviewed by Fox Business News commentator Cheryl Casone in the 11:00 A-M hour CDT today (Thursday) The Babbit hire is mentioned http
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Are you being serious? What, did you expect Herb to work forever?
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