HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Posted (7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 10976 times:
According to an interview with the KLM country manager in Indonesia published in today's Jakarta Post, Air France will be launching its own flights into Kuala Lumpur in April 2013, complementing KLM's daily operations there. Currently, KLM offers a daily AMS KUL flight, which extends into CGK, and for the upcoming winter season, this daily flight will be reinforced by three additional weekly AMS KUL terminators.
For the summer 2013, Air France will then start its own operations into KUL, and the flight will be timed to feed into KLM's KUL CGK KUL sectors, just as Air France's complement's KLM's operations at Singapore. Apparently, AF will also plans to funnel Australia bound passengers through KUL as its cooperation with Qantas via SIN and HKG is about to come to an end.
airpearl From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 934 posts, RR: 37 Reply 2, posted (7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10649 times:
Wow, this is great news for KUL - it has been a looong time since a new European carrier started flying in. UTA (and later AF for a very short while after the takeover) was the last French carrier to serve Malaysia a couple of centuries ago.
The possible codeshare on the Australian routes also explains for why MH plans to fly its A380s into Paris. If the long-time speculation about AF blocking MH's entry into SkyTeam is true (and not just another urban legend on A.net), then the AF-MH partnership make for strange bedfellows indeed - and even more so in light of MH's impending entry into oneworld. What a funny old world we live in now.
I wonder what sort of equipment and frequency AF will be using on its KUL flights... a daily B77E?
airpearl From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 934 posts, RR: 37 Reply 7, posted (7 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9853 times:
Quoting AF Cabin Crew (Reply 3): AF will fly 3 times a week with a 777-200ER to Kuala Lumpur.
A reasonable combination to start - I guess daily would just have been too much, although the decision to coordinate the CGK service with KLM is a good one and could provide the much-needed feed to support this service.
Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 4): I want to see how long this will last. I could be proved wrong ...
Your skepticism is justified. KUL is not a natural market for AF and nothing in Malaysia has changed to suddenly justify this flight. As KUL offers few regional connections that either SIN and BKK cannot provide, I guess how long this flight will last depends on what sort of agreement with MH they come up with!
Quoting SR4ever (Reply 6): Any chance MH makes a new u-turn and finally joins SkyTeam?
Now, wouldn't that be an interesting turn of events - IF it happens! Stranger things have happened so I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand...
A36001 From Australia, joined Sep 2012, 83 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (7 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9828 times:
Please come a bit further to Sydney, it's just a small jump. Whats another 16 hours (return approx) flight time.....would lurrrrve to have an AF B777 here...or an A320 beggars can't be chooses...
joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3128 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (7 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9591 times:
Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter): Air France will then start its own operations into KUL, and the flight will be timed to feed into KLM's KUL CGK KUL sectors, just as Air France's complement's KLM's operations at Singapore
Although AF and KL both serve SIN and therefore have complementary services, there is no scheduled coordination at SIN in order to feed onto KLs SIN-DPS sector. The AF-flight arrives after SIN-DPS has left, and returns to CDG before the arrival of KLs DPS-SIN.
In order to connect onto KLMs KUL-CGK flight, the AF plane needs quite some ground time.
In order to provide connections, AFs arrival and departure time must be almost identical to KLs times (15:00 arrival, 23:15 departure), so over 6 hours ground time.
infinit From Singapore, joined Jul 2008, 302 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (7 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9388 times:
Wow, this is big. And it'll be a better use of the nice but under-utilized KUL airport.
Quoting airpearl (Reply 7): Your skepticism is justified. KUL is not a natural market for AF and nothing in Malaysia has changed to suddenly justify this flight. As KUL offers few regional connections that either SIN and BKK cannot provide, I guess how long this flight will last depends on what sort of agreement with MH they come up with!
Like SR4ever, I was thinking what if MH turns to Sky instead? I think is feasible if MH gets into Sky. This will benefit MH tremendously I reckon
AF185 From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2012, 117 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (7 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9138 times:
Quoting infinit (Reply 10): Like SR4ever, I was thinking what if MH turns to Sky instead? I think is feasible if MH gets into Sky. This will benefit MH tremendously I reckon
Until QF decided to tie up with EK, the AF/QF codeshare to Australia was very succesful. But since this codeshare will end in April 2013, AF needs another partner for Australia flights and it seems they could count on MH on top of their new tie up with Etihad.
I have a mixed feeling about this whole situation as the natural choice would have been CGK and the feed to/from GA (future Skyteam member)...
MH into OW was decided before this whole new situation (QF+EK) and I think AF-KL and MH could probably be regretting this choice.
Considering all the new partnerships within airlines from different alliances, it will be interesting to see the plan from AF as this KUL flight does not really seem like the perfect O&D route.
Econojetter From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 430 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (7 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 8863 times:
Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter): Apparently, AF will also plans to funnel Australia bound passengers through KUL as its cooperation with Qantas via SIN and HKG is about to come to an end.
So this could be another part of AF's replacement for the QF codeshare. Looks like AF/KL are pushing hard to maintain or even gain market share on Europe-Australia vv.
Codeshare with EY was announced not long ago (albeit only involving KL at this point; but there is no reason AF couldn't get into that as well in the next phase).
Now the possible co-operation with MH.
Don't they also work with fellow Skyteam member CZ via CAN? CZ appears to be expanding rather aggressively into Australia.
Quoting AF Cabin Crew (Reply 3): AF will fly 3 times a week with a 777-200ER to Kuala Lumpur.
Hope it goes up to daily soon, otherwise it could be hard to gain traction. ...and this in the face of MH's plans to put the A380 on the CDG route = huge increase in CDG-KUL capacity all of a sudden.
Quoting joost (Reply 9): The AF-flight arrives after SIN-DPS has left, and returns to CDG before the arrival of KLs DPS-SIN.
The DPS market is leisure-oriented so a longer transit may not be a major deterrent. Perhaps many would like to stop over in SIN anyway. The DPS tag also a takes a considerably longer time than a CGK tag. With minor adjustments, eg later arrival into KUL (for KL) and extended ground stop, they could do what LH did with the FRA/MUC flights at SIN for CGK.
Another thing that has just appeared is the GA-EY co-operation. I wonder how this might work into AF/KL's plans for Indonesia.
LH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 448 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (7 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8592 times:
I also believe this will be the end of LHs flight via BKK. They either cancel it completly (99% probability) or start non-stop (1%). There will be too much competition and a one-stop is always in a disadventage..
YULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 6 Reply 15, posted (7 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7567 times:
Quoting joost (Reply 9): In order to provide connections, AFs arrival and departure time must be almost identical to KLs times (15:00 arrival, 23:15 departure), so over 6 hours ground time.
6 hours ground time might be just fine if it avoids a bad arrival or departure time with poor connection options. 23:15 departure arrives in Europe early/mid morning, 6AM in AMS, CDG must be similar to that. Which is great for connections within Europe and to N Am.
For a 15:00 arrival, one needs a late evening departure from Europe 8-9 PM-ish, which is good for all intra-Europe connections, but not so great for N Am as it means a super long layover.
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4141 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (7 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6769 times:
Quoting airpearl (Reply 7): Your skepticism is justified. KUL is not a natural market for AF and nothing in Malaysia has changed to suddenly justify this flight. As KUL offers few regional connections that either SIN and BKK cannot provide, I guess how long this flight will last depends on what sort of agreement with MH they come up with!
However, KL manages to fly 10 times weekly to KUL in W13, thus increasing its presence whilst MH will go to oneworld. Thus apparantly Skyteam manages to get a lot of traffic ex KUL.
Quoting AF Cabin Crew (Reply 3): AF will fly 3 times a week with a 777-200ER to Kuala Lumpur.
It wouldn't surpise me if AF would take over the 3 additional KL frequencies to KUL (thus KL will go down to daily). This will free up a 74E for 3 days.
TeamInTheSky From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 505 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (7 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6715 times:
Quoting LJ (Reply 17): However, KL manages to fly 10 times weekly to KUL in W13, thus increasing its presence whilst MH will go to oneworld. Thus apparantly Skyteam manages to get a lot of traffic ex KUL.
Staying in KL last month at the JW Marriott, every other person we met worked for oil (mostly Brits and Dutch). I would suspect that AF/KL has a contract with a number of companies in the area.
Regards,
Team
Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4141 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (7 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6432 times:
Quoting AF185 (Reply 12): I have a mixed feeling about this whole situation as the natural choice would have been CGK and the feed to/from GA (future Skyteam member)...
I doubt GA would be pleased if Af would start CDG-CGK as they're aiming at a daily AMS-CGK nonstop during S13. It will be a challenge filling such a flight, thus any additional competition on Europe - Indonesia is not welcome.
goldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1672 posts, RR: 3 Reply 20, posted (7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5765 times:
A new AF route is always a good news
They could have flown to KUL as a tag-on BKK flight. This would have may be helped to improve the results of this difficult route.
9MMAR From Malaysia, joined Jul 2006, 2099 posts, RR: 21 Reply 22, posted (7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4974 times:
Quoting SR4ever (Reply 6): Any chance MH makes a new u-turn and finally joins SkyTeam?
It was revealed by a MH insider that the official announcement date of the airline's inception as the 12th OW member will be done on the 12.12.12. The insider also confirmed that MH has completed an assessment process called 'No go/Go' with OW.
Quoting infinit (Reply 10): And it'll be a better use of the nice but under-utilized KUL airport.
It is quite hard to get rid of past bad reputation. 5 years ago probably, but KUL handled 37,670,586 passengers in 2011, ranked 28th in the world based on total passengers' movement. KUL handled more pax than FCO, IST, SYD or ICN. I think that is hardly under-utilized.
Quoting AF185 (Reply 12): Until QF decided to tie up with EK, the AF/QF codeshare to Australia was very succesful. But since this codeshare will end in April 2013, AF needs another partner for Australia flights and it seems they could count on MH on top of their new tie up with Etihad.
I have some pondering about the whole issue. If cross-alliances code sharing is not a problem:
- Why KL has to end its JV with MH after all these years of good collaboration? Why can't it continues even if MH is going to be elected into OW?
- Should the A.Net urban legend that AF is the main reason on why MH failed to be courted into Skyteam proved to be true, why AF is choosing MH as its partner to funnel its Australia bound passengers after QF divorced them? Why don't AF simply choose SQ for instance? SIN is a bigger hub than KUL, AF already flying into SIN with the A380, SQ flies into CDG with the A380 too, SQ has significant connections to Australia - would a AF-SQ partnership would be so much easier to establish since everything has been well in place?
changyou From Singapore, joined Nov 2003, 262 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4176 times:
Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 22): would a AF-SQ partnership would be so much easier to establish since everything has been well in place?
SQ do not require anymore partnership/code share to Australia as most connecting flights to Australia from Europe are perpectually full. That too for SIN-CDG sector. SQ would rather have all the revenue and yield to themselves. Extensive code share with LH and VA is sufficient to keep a healthy load and yield for its Australia operations.
smi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1381 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4025 times:
Quoting AF185 (Reply 12): I have a mixed feeling about this whole situation as the natural choice would have been CGK and the feed to/from GA (future Skyteam member)...
I agree GA would have made a good host out of CGK and given the city another connection point to Europe. I know GA plans on making CGK another hub between Europe, Asia and Australia, but a little help from AF would have given a it of a kick start no?
Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 5): reckon before that, we will see a daily BA 772 fairly soon, it's bound to happen
It would be nice but I don't know, it will be interesting to see how much cooperation we see between MH and BA. I think we will however see QF in KUL soon enough.
Quoting SR4ever (Reply 6): Any chance MH makes a new u-turn and finally joins SkyTeam?
For one code share agreement with AF? Doubtful they just announced their join date. Besides Skyteam have the ever up and coming, growing GA!
25 QFVHOQA: Why doesn't AF use its alliance partner CZ for Australian connections? CZ has been rapidly expanding in the Australia/New Zealand market and serves SY
26 MillwallSean: I really enjoy indonesia. I even enjoy Jakarta. Its dirty, messy but has its charm and its people are great always a smile. But anyone thats been to
27 changyou: An insider told me MH will feed BA to South East Asia while CX will feed BA to Australia...
28 HB-IWC: Flight schedules have now been published: AF246 CDG KUL 1940 1350+1 AF241 KUL CDG 2315 0600+1 Flights operate 3 times weekly with B772ER. Connectivity
29 goldorak: That's a long time on the ground. Do you think they could have in mind to add a tag to another "local" destination ?
30 akhmad: If that's the case, I am thinking of SUB, making KUL a scissor hub to Indonesian capital cities.
31 changyou: MH will deploy the 380 to CDG...ain't it gonna be over capacity on KUL-CDGvv?
32 SR4ever: Intrestingly, AF will deploy a 4-class 77E on this route, while BKK is served with a low-yield (COI) 77W. Does KUL outyield BKK for European airlines?
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