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Plane Off Runway At MNI/TRPG Montserrat  
User currently offlinewahdadli From Antigua and Barbuda, joined Dec 2007, 67 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2579 times:

A FlyMontserrat islander is off the runway at John A. Osborne Airport (IATA: MNI, ICAO: TRPG). All crew, pilot, and passengers (7) are alive and unhurt.

In related news another FlyMontserrat aircraft has been grounded.

This is also the same airline that recently had a fatal crash landing at ANU / TAPA on 7th October 2012.

This is the latest in a series of issues experienced at this airline.

May 2009 - Airline starts service

April 2011 - on a charter flight from Antigua to Montserrat an aircraft overran the runway at Osborne Airport and turned onto its side before coming to a rest at the side of a hill with the aircraft nosegear collapsed. No passengers or crew were injured.

May 2011 - After two attempts to land at the John A. Osborne Airport in Montserrat, the aircraft skidded when the pilot applied the brakes. The plane came to rest beside the runway, 46 metres short of its end. No passengers or crew were injured.

October 2012 - FlyMontserrat Flight 107 crashed at Antigua VC Bird Airport. Three of the four passengers and crew died.

October 2012 - One of the airlines remaining aircraft is grounded.

October 2012 - Aircraft runs off runaway at MNI/TRPG Montserrat

Now I am an average person who is fascinated by aircraft in all its forms and shapes. Actually the whole industry of flight. What is going on at this airline? Thats a lot of incidents in 3 years. Is this normal for a new airline?

[Edited 2012-10-16 09:51:37]

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6298 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2532 times:

Quoting wahdadli (Thread starter):
Is this normal for a new airline?

I sure hope not. Even if they are a new airline, I would hope they are not new pilots. It could be bad luck...but if I had to put money on it, I would say that it is something more.


User currently online817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2181 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2524 times:

Thanks for posting the thread. ive made a post about it in the Caribbean Aviation thread. Honestly im not really sure whats up with this airline (dont live there anymore) but your right, there have been quite a few accidents with this airline, there are also a few people that I know personally who refuse to fly them because of the management.


Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4910 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2481 times:

I am not saying this is the case here. However, my many decades of air accident investigation often shows some trends.

Usually when there are a string of incidents, it is indicative not of the flying itself, but the corporate culture of the air carrier. An investigator might look into any pressure on maintenance to cut costs, or in the training department to overlook some deficiencies of pilots, or the worst (in my opinion) is pressure on the pilot to complete a mission when he knows, for whatever reason, that he should not.

If the pilot is inexperienced ... it is a double edged sword. Firstly he may not know that he even can refuse a mission, or may not simply for fear of losing his job ... at a time when his own personal goal is to gain flying time and experience. And secondly, as he is inexperienced, he may not be able to get himself out of, what he got himself into!

I say again, I am not saying this is the case here. But an investigator would probably look in these directions.

There was a time in Canada where this was an issue. "Bush pilot" operators in the north often had a bad reputation for pushing employees beyond limits. And the safety record often showed just that. Then Transport Canada had a "blitz" on air carriers in the north and most were investigated, even those with a clean record. The outcome was a much safer air carrier system.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6298 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2415 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 3):
If the pilot is inexperienced ... it is a double edged sword. Firstly he may not know that he even can refuse a mission, or may not simply for fear of losing his job

I think the Poland government crash, for example, showed that is unfortunately not only limited to inexperienced pilots  

I completely agree with where you are coming from.


User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4910 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2372 times:

Quoting sw733 (Reply 4):
I think the Poland government crash, for example, showed that is unfortunately not only limited to inexperienced pilots

This is a very interesting example, as that crash was a Military/Government operation. It is an example of a crash where it "appeared" that the pilots were under pressure to complete a mission that was not possible.

It does not take a very hard effort to find dozens of examples of Military crashes where this looks like the cause. However, the Military usually investigate their own crashes, and normally the outcome/cause is not in the public domain. The only time we would ever hear about it is for high profile crashes, usually involving civilians as well.

This is also common in corporate flying. Either charter operations, or privately owned corporate aircraft. The CEO of the company being right there, and saying/yelling things like "I own this aircraft, you take me to XXX RIGHT NOW!" I'll tell ya, it takes a mean set of iron onions to say no!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently online817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2181 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2356 times:

Heres a link with a pic:

http://www.gov.ms/?p=7203



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlinetrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3225 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2253 times:

A very unfortunate run of luck for FlyMontserrat lately, it seems. I am glad that everyone was OK on this occasion. Best wishes to all and hopefully the airline can recover and prosper.

Trintocan.



Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6298 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2247 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 5):

This is a very interesting example, as that crash was a Military/Government operation. It is an example of a crash where it "appeared" that the pilots were under pressure to complete a mission that was not possible.

It does not take a very hard effort to find dozens of examples of Military crashes where this looks like the cause.

This is just the first one that popped in my head and was mainstream enough that most people might know the reference. It is a case of undo pressure on a crew to complete a task that really should never have been asked of them, and the result reflected such. It's certainly common in both military and civilian aviation.


User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6298 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2238 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 6):
Heres a link with a pic:

http://www.gov.ms/?p=7203

Perhaps just the angle, but it looks very close to going down a ravine which, though seemingly small, may have made a huge difference in the outcome for those onboard!


User currently offlinewahdadli From Antigua and Barbuda, joined Dec 2007, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2211 times:

Quoting sw733 (Reply 9):
Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 6):
Heres a link with a pic:

http://www.gov.ms/?p=7203

Perhaps just the angle, but it looks very close to going down a ravine which, though seemingly small, may have made a huge difference in the outcome for those onboard!

It was indeed close, very close.



User currently online817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2181 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2147 times:

Quoting sw733 (Reply 9):
Perhaps just the angle, but it looks very close to going down a ravine which, though seemingly small, may have made a huge difference in the outcome for those onboard!

On the sides the drop isn't that significant, but straight off the end is a different story... could have been a totally different outcome. Another point I should make regarding flym pilots, they tend to land a fair way down the runway (MNI's runway is 600m or somewhere around that) which is completely unnecessary in my opinion. Im not saying this happened in this incident, its just something ive always noticed.

Heres a link to an interview from one of the passengers onboard:

http://www.mnialive.com/lifestyle/is...ered-off-runway-on-montserrat.html



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
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