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WN Dropping BKG  
User currently offlineJONC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11568 times:

Although theres been no announcement yet, a quick serach on southwest.com for flights from AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN MDW AND HOU to BKG gets a message stating service is disc as of 4/13. If so that was a pretty quick failure !

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJONC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11568 times:

oh, and I dont know what the 'and current' part of the post is about, airliners added that ?

User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5509 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11575 times:

What and where is "BKG"?


...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1381 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11575 times:

I would wait a little while, their could be schedule problems etc... If its true, that could be why 4 new cities are starting.

[Edited 2012-10-22 04:22:41]


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4590 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11533 times:

Quoting sccutler (Reply 2):
What and where is "BKG"?

Branson, MO


User currently offlineJONC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11513 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 3):

lol, you mean wn has it issues sometimes. .. . when did that start?   but seriously I checked the network planning site as well for a gate sheet and got a blank page returned. . .so. . .that doesnt sound good. . . .


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1717 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11145 times:
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Not surprised. WN has yet to show it can make money in smaller markets. Maybe G4 can create a small focus city in BKG.

User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5509 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11049 times:

Why is this airport being called "BKG"? It is "BBG."

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KBBG

---

Ah, see there is a conflict between the IATA code and the FAA-assigned airport identifier.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineJONC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10908 times:

Quoting sccutler (Reply 7):
www.flybranson.com

refers the code to bkg as well


User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2900 posts, RR: 30
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10908 times:

For what it's worth, the schedule section in the Southwest website now does not show any PDF's for Branson past April 6.

I suspect it is not coincidental that Frontier briefly loaded Branson being dropped on 4/6 to their website. One of the conditions of the Branson subsidy agreement is that routes are monopolies, so suspicion that Frontier was dropping Branson because Southwest would start competing with them to Denver don't quite work. But it just seems too strange for this to be all unrelated and coincidental.

A few possible things come to mind....only brainstormed thoughts on my part not supported by anything....

(1) Might there be an end or sharp reduction in subsidy available as of 4/6? If so, perhaps Frontier was gonig to leave but has decided to stay with little or no subsidy once the airport told them that Southwest was leaving.

(2) Perhaps things are not going so well for anybody, and when the airport found that both Southwest and Frontier were leaving they tried hard to sweeten the pot and convinced Frontier to stay.

(3) Perhaps Southwest really viewed Denver as lynchpin to Branson service, and when the airport wouldn't give it to them, they decided to take their ball and go home.

Those are **only** my own brainstormed speculative thoughts, and perhaps there's something out there to shoot one or each of them down. But it just seems there has to be something more to this. A key point to remember is that just because this is a subsidized market does not necessarily mean that profits are guaranteed to be plentiful and permanent. I've heard conflicting things about the Branson contracts, so I'm not sure what to believe. Perhaps in spite of subsidy they still are losing money. Or changes to the contract mean that after April 6 they will lose money. Or, perhaps the handwriting is on the wall that current subsidies won't last forever, and things are trending poorly enough that Southwest has decided it's not worth the energy, effort and equipment in the long term to stay in Branson, even if the flying generates some profit while it lasts.

Again, just my own thoughts about what possibly could be going on. I hope we find out.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4590 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10883 times:

BKG has been its code since it opened. Now if they are changing the code that is one thing, but it has always been BKG.

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22938 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10882 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 6):
WN has yet to show it can make money in smaller markets.

CRP?
JAN?
RSW?
GSP?
CHS?
ECP?

Are those not "smaller markets?"



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineN353SK From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 821 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10857 times:

BRO
HRL
MFE

The message you were about to post is too short and probably not of any higher value to the topic at hand. You should think long and hard before posting a message in this forum and make it detailed and a valuable addition to the topic discussed.


User currently offlineMLI717fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10759 times:

I know load factors don't mean profit, but considering the average LF for WN @ BKG is in the mid 50% range, I'm surprised they decided to keep it around post merger. WN/FL dropped cities with more daily flights and higher loads. With Springfield and NW Arkansas not too far away, I think Branson isn't going to be able to cut it for anyone in the long term.

User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10545 times:

Color me confused. The PDFs are still showing n/s service at the end of May:

http://www.southwest.com/assets/pdfs...les/20130528_20121022_0500/bkg.pdf


User currently offlineJONC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10427 times:

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 14):

that is wierd. . . .I wonder if this is an IT issue after all. . . but kinda odd that its so late and hasnt been fixed, , , dont they all watch this site anyway??


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4590 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10307 times:

There is an issue with the schedules showing...it'll be fixed later today.

User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3814 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10295 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11):
CRP?
JAN?
RSW?
GSP?
CHS?
ECP?

Are those not "smaller markets?"

My answer

CRP - Grandfathered in from "old WN'
JAN - More or less forced to fly there (oh the things senators used to be able to pull off)
RSW - Not a small market
GSP - Not as small of a market as the world thinks
CHS - Not a small market
ECP - Entered because of a revenue guarantee, which they allegedly havent used. Like RSW, this is a destination

I don't think the appropriate question is "can" WN make money in small markets, because many are sure they could. They are the ones that generally don't believe they can.

Quoting MLI717fan (Reply 13):
I know load factors don't mean profit, but considering the average LF for WN @ BKG is in the mid 50% range, I'm surprised they decided to keep it around post merger. WN/FL dropped cities with more daily flights and higher loads. With Springfield and NW Arkansas not too far away, I think Branson isn't going to be able to cut it for anyone in the long term.

Them staying made no sense to me. I can only assume there was serious financial backing involved. It is a private airport after all.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22938 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10021 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 17):
Like RSW, this is a destination

Branson fancies itself as a destination.

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 17):
They are the ones that generally don't believe they can.

Then why not drop CRP and JAN?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3814 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9819 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):
Branson fancies itself as a destination.

Well I reckon it is a small one, but the fly market isn't nearly what the bus market is.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):
Then why not drop CRP and JAN?

I'm pretty sure CRP is working. They've been there so long that the market has matured and they probably get a decent yield from CRP. Had they not ever flown to CRP and were just taking a look at the market now days, I'd bet money they wouldn't fly there.

JAN is probably on the lower end of the performance sheet, but even a marginal city can survive just fine.

What you are saying reinforces my point. They are in some small cities and making them work, yet don't seem to believe they can do it on a larger scale.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4590 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9730 times:

Again...BKG isn't being dropped. Schedules will be loaded later today for it.

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22938 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9703 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 19):
What you are saying reinforces my point. They are in some small cities and making them work, yet don't seem to believe they can do it on a larger scale.

No, I agree with that. I was addressing the assertion that WN cannot make small markets work.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMLI717fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8997 times:

BKG isn't on the route map on Southwest.com.

I don't know if that is also related to the same IT issue or not.

Either way, unless BKG is cutting them big checks, I don't see how this could be profitable for WN.


User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3813 posts, RR: 34
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8853 times:

Quoting MLI717fan (Reply 22):
BKG isn't on the route map on Southwest.com.
yes it is

LoneStarMike


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3125 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8831 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 20):
Again...BKG isn't being dropped. Schedules will be loaded later today for it.
Quoting MLI717fan (Reply 22):
BKG isn't on the route map on Southwest.com.

BKG (Branson) is back http://www.southwest.com/flight/routemap_dyn.html



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
25 Post contains links MLI717fan : Odd. Different route maps. When you click on Travel Guide > Route map, it is not. http://travel.southwest.com/travel/exploreTravel.html?int=GNAVTRV
26 iowaman : BKG wasn''t mentioned in the official release as being dropped, so it looks like it's safe after all. CRP performs below average for load factors, bu
27 knope2001 : The maps are meaningless in knowing if a route or market will be dropped in the future. Even if they are dropping BKG, they will be serving Branson up
28 ouboy79 : Sigh. BKG isn't going away. There is an issue with the schedule displaying. Check back later today and it should be fixed.
29 enilria : I guess it is all coincidental. I don't think WN will be nearly so quick to close station converted from FL. Clearly there are going to be a bunch of
30 airliner371 : But FL also didn't offer many if any connections.
31 ouboy79 : FL also didn't have massive connection opportunities in MDW and HOU to move passengers through. I really don't get why people are so hung up on measu
32 ouboy79 : Exactly. People want to compare FL numbers and expect WN to pull the same, but that just isn't realistic. It is like people comparing FL's CAK-MKE to
33 Post contains links 71Zulu : BKG? Flightaware shows it as BBG Airnav information has it BBG The FAA sectional charts and instrument approaches show it as BBG http://flightaware.co
34 sdoyon : Because the IATA does.
35 SouthwestAir : Hi All, Southwest Airlines has not discontinued our previously announced service to Branson, Mo (BKG), With our new schedule opening today it can some
36 Post contains links QANTAS747-438 : This will end the BBG vs BKG argument... http://www.generalaviationnews.com/2.../branson-airport-gets-second-code/
37 Post contains images JONC777 : awsome. . .(but its still gives the disc message) anyways looks like my plans to check out outlaw run at silver dollar city are still on
38 ouboy79 : Thank you. I mean really people. Unless you are just that tuned out...Branson has been BKG for awhile now.
39 airliner371 : Thank you very much! Thank you, this truly ends that subject.
40 RamblinMan : Oh it's a destination...but somehow I don't see your average Branson tourist as entirely likely to fly there. Seems more like a destination for the l
41 Cubsrule : Three years ago, I'd have said the same thing about Destin/ECP.
42 727tiger : As of 4:20 p.m., CDT, southwest.com still stating BKG service discontinuing as of April 13. I know what's been said on here, nevertheless, you still c
43 ouboy79 : Might be something that is requiring more work. We already have an official statement from WN on this thread (from Rob above)...so no need to really
44 RamblinMan : That is a bigger destination and a greater local population but I was also surprised with that one.
45 SouthwestAir : Thanks for your patience everyone! The Branson, MO schedule is now fully loaded and you can book as far out as our schedule is currently open, which i
46 bobloblaw : Looks like we jumped the gun and BKG is around thru May 31st.
47 iowaman : Same frequencies too: 1x HOU 1x MDW 1x DAL 1x MCO (Saturday only)
48 knope2001 : +1....obviously speculation on this peculiar glitch is unfounded.[Edited 2012-10-22 19:42:24]
49 rampart : . Thanks for setting this straight. But I find your post pretty interesting, mainly for what it reveals. I've seen company interests represented on A
50 airliner371 : No, their are a few SWA executives here. Haven't seen other airlines though.[Edited 2012-10-22 20:30:48]
51 rampart : But not obviously so. Are they open about it, or prefer to be low profile? I suspect the latter. I'm a little weirded out about the Big Brother aspec
52 airliner371 : Some of both. If you keep watching for them they show up. Not often but once in a while and I appreciate it greatly when they do.
53 Antoniemey : As an employee of an airline contractor, I know my local station manager reads this forum. He even knows who I am on here. But, as a general rule, I
54 ouboy79 : First about Southwest specifically. It is a company that encourages social media in projecting the image of Southwest and it is a company that doesn'
55 BMI727 : I don't doubt that there is stuff here and elsewhere that companies don't want known, but I would also guess that a fair portion of that is Tom Clanc
56 JONC777 : If one were to follow your rules, I wonder if this site would even exist? Incentently anything I have every posted has always been public information
57 JONC777 : Oh, and just because people are taking about it . .. doesnt mean there 'worked up' at most it might just be chatter to fill the day. . .
58 Post contains links LoneStarMike : swabrian is another one who isn't anonymous. There's others, but they're anonymous here, so I won't mention them. LoneStarMike
59 GentFromAlaska : I've never flown into Branson. Do the bar coded luggage tags WN affixes to luggage read BBG or BKG? I personally use the use luggage tags identificat
60 mariner : It's a prickly one. No question this board and others are monitored - at least in the earlier days, a few posters who have "said too much" have been
61 QANTAS747-438 : WN doesn't fly there yet, but the tags will say BKG.
62 ScottB : I think that anyone working in the industry should think very carefully before posting information which isn't publicly available. One should assume
63 mariner : Oh, I agree. But executives are people, too, and - sometime or perhaps - can or could lose objectivity. Indeed. mariner
64 ouboy79 : It is obvious they don't. However, I would always be wary about using company assets for personal usage. Just be smart with the privilege or it can s
65 b757capt : Why is this thread still open?
66 SA7700 : As it is apparent that BKG will still be served by WN, this thread will be locked for further contributions. Any posts added after the thread lock wil
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