seansasLCY From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2007, 719 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 28992 times:
Flight global tweeted that: "Singapore Airlines orders $7.7bn worth of jets - 5 #Airbus A380s and 20 A350s, plus low-cost arm Scoot will take 20 of SIA's #Boeing 787-9s"
Very interesting. I'm please Scoot will get new planes. I enjoyed their service.
scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3255 posts, RR: 10 Reply 7, posted (7 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 28555 times:
and very interesting that the 787s are being moved from the mainline to the locost airline - looks like SIA needs the extra capacity of the A350 over the 789 - assuming that theses are for the A359 or A35J.
Great news for the A380 programme and the third customer to place a third order
Deliveries from 2017 (assuming that is for both A350's and A380's).
How long do SQ usually keep their airplanes?
By the time the new order starts delivery, their oldest A380's will be 10+ years old. Not that I think they will be replaced, but is weird to think that the aircraft will already be a decade old!
scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3255 posts, RR: 10 Reply 11, posted (7 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 28163 times:
Just wondering if they might of picked up the IT slots on the cheap as this order has got to be doomed as IT haven't currently got and AOC and only had 2 planes that weren't grounded!
Airbus will take back the 5 A340-500s and SQ will stop non-stop service due to "lack of replacement aircraft in its fleet with "sufficient range and operating economics"".
So no 777LRs, but will it be resumed with a variant of the A350???
astuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9142 posts, RR: 96 Reply 16, posted (7 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 27576 times:
Quoting maxter (Reply 3): Wow, great news indeed for the A380 program, hopefully the first of many repeat orders for not only SQ but the others who have the type as well.
Quoting PM (Reply 4): Maybe even better news for the A350!
I looked for some clue as to which variant of the A350 had been ordered. I guess the default is to assume more A359's
If it is more A359's, that might give us a bit of context around the reports that SQ are also lead candidates for the 787-10 - by which I mean it might be good evidence that the two types can be quite logically operated side-by-side
If they turn out to be A350-1000's then that provides context in a different way
Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 1): Looks like they're trying to keep up with the Joneses
frigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1199 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (7 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 27571 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 4): Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 2):Good news for the A380 program!
Maybe even better news for the A350!
The A380 needs the orders more than the A350. I was starting to get worried about the lack of orders for VLA.
As I said in another thread, SQ's follow up order for the A350is more than logical:
Quoting na (Reply 14): Those A350s will surely replace the last of the 772s.
Their existing order for A350s should take care of that.This additional order might very well be to replace some 77W's as well, in 2018 the oldest will be 12 years old, SQ usually doesn't keep their airplanes longer than that.
Quoting zkojq (Reply 7): I guess that answers the question if if SIA will or won't get 787-10s.
I don't know, rumor was they could be launch customer of the 787-10, to replace the A333s which are on short lease.
scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3255 posts, RR: 10 Reply 19, posted (7 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 27382 times:
Quoting flood (Reply 19): I hope AF manages to firm their order this year to place the A350 firmly in the black with 40+ net.
As a long shot we might just also get the IAG decision on widebody twns which coudl be another 25-50 planes. If those two happens a disapointing year for the A350 could end up being a bumper one.
StickShaker From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 622 posts, RR: 3 Reply 21, posted (7 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 27279 times:
Quoting AngMoh (Reply 13): Airbus will take back the 5 A340-500s and SQ will stop non-stop service due to "lack of replacement aircraft in its fleet with "sufficient range and operating economics"".
[quote=scouseflyer,reply=16]Quoting AngMoh (Reply 13):So no 777LRs, but will it be resumed with a variant of the A350???
There was talk at launch time of a A359R but this has been mentioned for several years now.
I think this could signal the end of long thin ULH routes - they just don't work in today's environment.
It could also make A and B think twice about committing big dollars to developing future ULH derivatives when there is a much more lucrative market for medium range low CASM derivatives such as the 787-10.
Unless the 359R is part of a freighter program (like the 77L/77F) it might not see the light of day.
na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9614 posts, RR: 10 Reply 22, posted (7 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 27131 times:
Quoting frigatebird (Reply 18): Their existing order for A350s should take care of that.This additional order might very well be to replace some 77W's as well, in 2018 the oldest will be 12 years old, SQ usually doesn't keep their airplanes longer than that.
You´re right with that. Like EK SQ will certainly start replacing the oldest 77Ws by 2016-18.
AirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 1913 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (7 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 27135 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 11):
That is 60 more RR Trents for SIA.
Not a bad day's business for Derby.
Indeed!
Slightly odd that the engine choice for the 787s STILL hasn't been made. I can only speculate that SQ want Trents, but that they aren't happy with the price RR are offering.
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
india1 From India, joined Aug 2011, 90 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (7 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 28077 times:
"I looked for some clue as to which variant of the A350 had been ordered. I guess the default is to assume more A359's"
@ Astuteman - before Airbus confirmed them as 359s, I saw the clue in 2017 as the being the date of delivery commencement...
25 scbriml: Good news for the A380 and A350. Interesting that the 787s will be assigned to Scoot - presumably to be used as 9-across regional 'people movers'. The
26 EPA001: You are probably correct. . That is very interesting. But it also means that SQ are very serious about Scoot. So good news for the customers of Scoot
27 cheeken: Hmm..AI has 5 77Ls for sale, i wonder............
28 MotorHussy: Potentially SQ's other investment's (other than Scoot) A380 order too, VS that is.
29 EPA001: I missed this one. . That is of course another nice component of this significant order for WB-planes from SQ for their main airline product. Derby w
30 jfk777: Surprising to see SIA will NOT be using the 787-9 for its range.
31 fcogafa: Which suggests that the early A380s will start to be rolled over for the latest models. Another sign that there will be a glut of early A380s to be f
32 AngMoh: With 19 relatively new A333s in service and 15 more on order, why does SQ need the 787s before 2020? The 787s were originally planned for intra-asia
33 Fraport: Because the A333 are leased for just 5-6 years each. http://www.aspireaviation.com/2012/1...unch-implications-on-777x/[Edited 2012-10-24 05:17:35][Ed
34 AngMoh: Yes they do have short leases, but if you are going to replace them with 787s, why buy 15 more?
35 A388: Great news for SQ, Airbus and Boeing, congratulations. So which airlines have placed follow up orders for the A380 so far? Only EK? A388
36 JerseyFlyer: ....which presumably the leasing companies would be entirely happy to extend if SQ asked!
37 TC957: What a shame the LAX & EWR non-stops are going. Guess that'll leave DXB-LAX then as the longest non-stop ? Maybe AI can pay SQ a visit and try to
38 ikramerica: Looks like Airbus found a customer for Kingfisher's A380s.
39 anfromme: Nope. Here's the full list of A380 customers that have placed add-on orders, by date of their initial order: Emirates Air France Singapore Airlines Q
40 MaverickM11: Wow, ULH is so great it's going away. What a surprise . I'm surprised they held on this long.
41 jfk777: Cathay and now SIA have huge A350-900 orders, are these to replace A330's flying regionally or 777 flying to Europe and the USA ? With the Cathay A35
42 qf002: Very interesting news. Does this mean that the A350 has been identified as the main replacement for regional A330 flying? That doesn't strike me as a
43 airbazar: I don't buy this at all. Introducing the A380 on the JFK route probably had greater impact. Overnight, SQ nearly doubled the number of J seats on the
44 EK413: Wonderful news for Airbus and SQ! I always found it odd having a fleet of 19 380s... I have no idea as to what your getting at with that comment...?!
45 mickey90: Didn't Etihad also add on some a380's?
46 MaverickM11: And not lose money on 17+ hour flights. If the flights were making money they'd either keep the aircraft or find a replacement. Airlines don't cut pr
47 Stitch: SQ has more A330-300s coming, so would they need the 787-9 at the same time? Sending them off to Scoot will give them an economic advantage over thei
48 LAXDESI: As per the FG article, the above flights will stop in late 2013. Perhaps 787 is too narrow for 9-abreast Y at SQ. Will 787-10 at 8-abreast Y be as at
49 scouseflyer: As added previously EY has topped up as did Skymark. KE is the other one that ordered more than twice placing follow ups for 3 then 2 which still exp
50 Stitch: Then why order it? And I still wonder how noticeable three-tenths of an inch really will feel to one's bum... If SQ wants to offer an 8-abreast regio
51 india1: Man, try working that much off your bum or your tum and you'lll know!!!! But seriously, I kind of agree with you that moving the 789s to Scoot may we
52 LAXDESI: If SQ is not comfortable with 9-abreast Y on 789, but is OK with it on A359, then A359 CASM will be attractive against 787-10. If 9-abreast on 787 is
53 Atlflyer: I was really looking forward to seeing the 789 in SQ colors. Guess the only possibility is the 787-10x but at 8-abreast Y I guess it just can't compet
54 Stitch: Again, if they were not comfortable with it, I don't see why they'd buy it. Let us not forget that they placed their 787-9 order in October of 2006 -
55 AngelAirways: But missing from the Flightglobal article is the added statement - 'As part of the deal, Airbus has agreed to acquire SIA’s five A340-500s, which wi
56 Revelation: That's quite surprising - it's usually quite difficult to get the vendor to take back previously sold products, especially since IIRC there are the u
57 Stitch: Airbus can always strip them and re-sell them as direct from the OEM spares - those planes are worth a fair bit more in pieces than in whole.
58 neutrino: With this development (transfer of order to Scoop), it could be that the delay in the 789's engine selection that seemed odd all this while (since al
59 blueflyer: There goes my favorite flight! If I have to make an extra stop, might as well fly Cathay now. While that makes sense, the flip side of the coin is th
60 Stitch: The extra pitch on the A340-500 is likely just down to the configuration, as it's all Business Class. After all, the 777 is over a half-meter wider t
61 lightsaber: I'm maintained for a while that the #1 handicap to selling more A380s is the production rate. While 2012 hasn't been a stellar production year, perhap
62 goosebayguy: Time for BA to place a second order or it will get left behind. I do wonder when EK will start retiring their first 380's!
63 KarelXWB: Indeed, Airbus is now at 578 orders for the A350 program. It's time for Air France to firm their order for 25 A350's so the order book can exceed 600
65 ASA: Looks like keeping up with the Joneses may not be such a good idea ... http://finance.yahoo.com/news/rich-n...hbors-cause-suicide-141729353.html
66 SIA747Megatop: The 789's were never meant to do any long haul sectors anyway so it doesn't come as a surprise that these aircrafts will be going to Scoot. I do feel
67 francoflier: I'm surprised an experienced Anetter like you would believe that... I've heard of a few instances when that happened during aircraft purchase negotia
68 SIA747Megatop: Yes. I believe these were the 343's.
69 flightsimer: I was thinking the same thing... Net chanGe of zero frames.
72 KarelXWB: The A350-900R should be able to do the job, but Airbus won't launch it before the -800, -900 and -1000 are in service I guess.
73 ferpe: The one frame that could be suitable would be the A350-800. It's donor craft (359) gives it bits designed for 268t MTOW, if A raises the -800 MTOW fr
74 Stitch: And the A350-800R is eight meters shorter than the A340-500, so that would reduce the seat count by ~16 seats and bring it closer to the actual deman
75 SIA747Megatop: In addition to my previous post I do believe the transition from the 772ER's that Scoot currently operates to the 787-9 would be preferred for fleet c
76 AngMoh: The actual sitting area / backrest is the same, but where your feet are is different. On the 777 and A380, your feet are effectively next to the back
77 seahawks7757: Great news for Scoot! I can't wait to see there scheme on the 787!
78 Stitch: Pitch is determined by length, not width, of the cabin. The A380-800 Upper Deck seats 40 less even with a tighter pitch (55" vs. 60") and that's beca
79 LAXintl: The current A330-300 fleet are on rather short 6-8year leases. The next batch due between 2013-2015 are on 6-year leases. By late this decade the fle
80 timboflier215: Sorry if I've missed it somewhere, but is the A350 order a conversion of the 20 options they took out when they first placed the order, or is it 20 ne
81 lightsaber: I like your thinking. But alas, the A388R requires the A388F and that was dropped... I agree that would work. But is there really enough demand to la
82 astuteman: A "glut" of early A380's? Airbus managed to deliver a whole 23 of them in the first 3 years.... It begs the question as to what descriptive noun you
83 Stitch: The A380-800R might have originally had a lower MTOW than the A380-800F. I've seen weights of 583t | 385t | 360t for MTOW | MLW | MZFW from a now-def
84 fcogafa: I think proportion is a factor as is the likelihood of the market for used B777s being greater than for used, early A380s
85 Devilfish: In hindsight, all this talk about SQ's 787s being given over to Scoot may indicate that ANA's original request for a short-haul 787-3, and A.net dream
86 Stitch: The 787-3 was just never going to work. Even with a significantly lower MEW, the 53m wingspan just killed the aero to the point even on a short-hope
87 Atlflyer: Basically it seems all 777-200ERs will be replaced by A350-900s. The only hope for the 787 will be the -10 to replace the A330-300s but it seems that
88 ikramerica: This is why I suggested these are the Kingfisher slots. Production is still constrained, but AFAIK, Kingfisher did have delivery slots, even if they
89 Stitch: I would expect an A350 at 3-3-3 to have better CASM than a 787 at 2-4-2. When the A350 is at 2-4-2 compared to the 787 at 3-3-3 or both are at 2-4-2.
90 astuteman: It wouldn't be quite so bad if there had actually been a "glut" of early frames delivered. It will be seven years before there are the grand total of
91 Stitch: SQ's first five A380s were all delivered on 10 year leases with Doric Aircraft Finance, so this new order for five sounds like a replacement order fo
92 rwy04lga: Google it. American humor is not always readily apparent. No, I'm not serious. PS, it's ''you're'', not ''your''. Next time I'll clear my comments th
93 Asiaflyer: Expect the first 19 A333 to get extended lease contracts. Why else would SQ order 15 more if they intended to return first batch? Correct, but that w
94 Stitch: To tide them over until this second tranche of A350-900s arrive?
95 astuteman: SQ ARE the Joneses, as far as the A380 is concerned. They were first out of the blocks, and the first to have their whole fleet delivered. As others
96 ferpe: What will be really interesting is when SQ starts replacing their 77Ws, when are they coming up for replacement?
97 qf002: JQ starts taking their 15 787-8s next year.
98 tullamarine: JQ has A332s. Apparently JQ is not making significant profits from its wide body ops compared with massive profits from the A320/A321s. Like other LC
99 babybus: I thought we just had a thread about how A380 operators were finding it hard to find a role for their giant aircraft. Seems we got it wrong again. Tha
100 anfromme: Yes and no. They cancelled their initial order for 4 and placed a new order for 10 the same day. So in a way, this wasn't a top-on order because the
101 ferpe: Seems it will be A350 for SQ and 787, all variants, for Scoot: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...consider-a-mixed-787-fleet-378060/ as said what
102 EPA001: It sure is. A lot will depend on how Boeing proceeds with the proposed B777-X program. But no doubt the A350-1000 XWB has a serious chance of ending
103 Devilfish: The link in #101 seems to confirm those "big plans".
104 9VSIO: And I heard some flew straight from Toulouse to Seattle! This strikes me as an interesting move from SQ as it happens right after a rather publicised
105 anfromme: Not quite - but I believe they didn't ever make it to Singapore, either Most of the 17 total A340-300s were actually operated by SIA for 4+ years. Bu
106 zeke: Scoot will be well behind Jetstar getting 787s into the area. The interesting implication is the 777 is not efficient enough even for a high density
107 RayChuang: I wonder if SQ might convert part of the A350-900 order to A350-900R. That could make it possible for SQ to resume the LAX/EWR-SIN non-stop service on
108 JerseyFlyer: I agree, though they retain flexibility to extend the leases if necessary. The new 5 will be "better" than the first 5 in all sorts of ways and I the
109 Revelation: Not really sure, but the 787-9 and -10 are surely tough competition for the 777s in the Scoot role. They seem almost tailor made for a pan-Asia LCC.
110 scbriml: At the time, it was probably the best option for them. They were also expecting to have them all delivered by 2013 (whereas they won't get the first
111 Stitch: I wonder if this ties into Aspire Aviation's rumor of SQ ordering the 787-10: right company, just wrong subsidiary. Maybe. Or maybe since SQ had some
112 MadameConcorde: Singapore Airlines loves their A380s Five years already since we boarded the first inaugural commercial filghts. I had this email in my mailbox this m
113 Stitch: I'm inclined to agree that SQ likely won't operate the 787, unless they do take the 787-10 as an A330-300 replacement when those come off lease.
114 StickShaker: I'm guessing that they wont launch it at all. I dont see Airbus in a rush to launch any 359R - how many genuine ULH routes are out there ? I suspect
115 art: SQ appear to have found ways to use the aircraft profitably. I wonder if they will replace their A380''s with more of the same when they reach 10+ ye
116 MaverickM11: Besides everyone ? I don't see why not; SQ is going to progressively move into smaller volume, higher yield traffic and leave the high volume, low yi
117 Stitch: They just did with this order - they will replace the first five A380s as their 10-year lease term ends. Unlikely. RR might have a Trent 900 PiP out
118 PM: Not necessarily. It may be that the 777-200ER is good but the 787-9 is better. Which, of course, it should be... Your logic would suggest that JetSta
119 astuteman: The only thing I'd say there is that Airbus will one day develop the A350F, and it will almost certainly be based on the A350-1000 weights, engines,
120 zeke: I have been critical on here of how inconsistent SQ is with their cabin product, staying with a wider airframe for the premium airline will allow for
121 LAXDESI: As per FG article, Scoot may take a mixed order of 788, 789, and 7810. Could Scoot get some 788 before 789? http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...con
122 StickShaker: I agree (post #21) although I do think any 350F would be some time away given the presence of the 330F. Regards, StickShaker
123 frigatebird: Certainly the A350F will be developed one day, much like you describe. Still don't know about the A359R though. The 77F followed the 77L a couple of
124 Stitch: Considering Boeing spent nine to ten figures specifically on the 747-8 Intercontinental, it would certainly be better at this moment. Over the life o
125 kaitak: The -10, definitely, but I'd be very surprised to see Scoot going for the -8. I agree and Airbus will certainly need to ensure, as far as possible th
126 9VSIO: I stand corrected. Makes for a good story though!
127 infinit: Times have changed. In the late 80s when EK was a new startup modelled largely on SQ's business model, SQ bought a then-unprecedented number of 747s.
128 EK413: Just like Boeing buying the A343s and in return sold SQ the B777... Love an airline which takes pride in it's fleet and sticking to it's young fleet
129 scbriml: Which doesn't negate the fact the QF did place an add-on order.
130 XT6Wagon: You say this, but I have a feeling that Frieghters are not very popular with most of the upper management now. So far the only one in recent memory t
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