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AA DFW To ICN Begins... Along With Other Routes  
User currently offlineaacun From Mexico, joined Jan 2004, 534 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 11 months ago) and read 21395 times:
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AA annouces Dallas/Ft. worth-Seoul service....... Also ORD-DUS, JFK-DUB and DFW-LIM
Also several domestic cities out of DFW and ORD on eagle

176 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11632 posts, RR: 61
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months ago) and read 21448 times:

Great news.

I knew it! DFW-ICN is a market that has made sense for AA for years - I hope that works out.

The return of DFW-LIM, especially given LAN's rapidly-growing hub there, also makes total sense (and also has for years).

JFK-DUB is an interesting in that it is relatively seasonal, and a competitive market, although it's a market that - like so many others - should not be all that difficult to fill during the summer.

ORD-DUS I am surprised by, given that AB already announced ORD-DUS service - I was somewhat more expecting ORD-BER, but ORD-DUS still seems reasonable. I will be interested to see how it does.

Domestically, DFW-FAR makes sense, and the COU service was already previously known. Return to BPT after so many years is interesting, though.


User currently onlineAmricanShamrok From Ireland, joined May 2008, 2903 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months ago) and read 21371 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
ORD-DUS I am surprised by, given that AB already announced ORD-DUS service

Air Berlin is launching Berlin-Chicago next summer, not Dusseldorf-Chicago. AA will go head to head with Lufthansa on this route.



Shannon-Chicago
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11632 posts, RR: 61
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months ago) and read 21318 times:

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 2):
Air Berlin is launching Berlin-Chicago next summer, not Dusseldorf-Chicago. AA will go head to head with Lufthansa on this route.

Ah - sorry I got those mixed up. I question how successful AA's 767 product will be up against Lufthansa's, which is superior, but perhaps with the hub on one end and the partner hub on the other, it will work. Interesting that this markets AA's return to DUS after nearly 20 years.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8375 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months ago) and read 21310 times:
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Finally AA finds Asia outside Japan or China. When will Hong Kong begin ? Dusseldorf not a complete surprise, its good they a starting a European flight from ORD, not cancelling one.

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11632 posts, RR: 61
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months ago) and read 21217 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
Finally AA finds Asia outside Japan or China. When will Hong Kong begin ?

Yeah - DFW-ICN has and does make sense, and I agree that it rounds out AA's route portfolio to Asia which has obviously been entirely Japan and China (and China really only for about the last 5-6 years). I have to say I'm personally a bit surprised that LAX-PVG has lasted thus far - didn't think it would with all the competition.

Five months ago, back in May, I argued that, given the alliance and competitive landscape as it now stands, AA needed to three "surgical adds" to their Asia network to be broadly competitive with Delta. This, DFW-ICN, was one of them. The others were DFW-HKG, which I still see as entirely plausible once the 77Ws arrive, and LAX-PEK. With those two additional markets, plus the network JAL and Cathay bring, AA would - in general - be where it needed to be competitively in Asia.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
its good they a starting a European flight from ORD, not cancelling one.

Agreed. I'll be interested to see if ORD-DUS makes it long-term.


User currently offlinejcwr56 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 499 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months ago) and read 21145 times:

Since the cat is out of the bag, AA had been planning 2 new international routes from ORD but only ended up with DUS.

With AB to TXL and now AA to DUS, it will give options for flyer's to connect and compete with Star to Germany and beyond.

[Edited 2012-10-24 05:23:49]

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11632 posts, RR: 61
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months ago) and read 21124 times:

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 6):
Since the cat is out of the bag, AA had been planning 2 new international routes from ORD but only ended up with DUS.

Any hints as to what #2 was? Aircraft type to have been used? Region of the world?  


User currently offlineMats From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 631 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months ago) and read 21063 times:

Düsseldorf doesn't make much sense to me. Maybe they're hoping to connect with AirBerlin. But AB is in its own financial turmoil. Also, Germany itself is facing tough financial times.

I remember Northwest's very brief DTW-Düsselforf experiment with a 757.

American actually flew from Chicago to Berlin/Tegel in about 1992. It was not successful. The same year, Air Canada tried Toronto-Berlin/Schönefeld with no luck. I love Berlin, but I think it's a tough market for transatlantic service.


User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 645 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months ago) and read 21052 times:

International:

Starts 02APR2013:

AA2193 | DFW-LIM | 17:30-00:25 | 752 | D
AA2194 | LIM-DFW | 02:00-09:15 | 752 | D

Starts 11APR2013:

AA242 | ORD-DUS | 17:00-08:15 | 763 | D
AA241 | DUS-ORD | 12:10-14:20 | 763 | D

Starts 09MAY2013:

AA27 | DFW-ICN | 10:30-15:00 | 772 | D
AA26 | ICN-DFW | 17:00-16:20 | 772 | D

Starts 12JUN2013:

AA290 | JFK-DUB | 18:55-06:55 | 752 | D
AA291 | DUB-JFK | 09:00-11:30 | 752 | D

Domestic:

Starts 14FEB2013:

AA2543 | DFW-BPT | 08:40-09:50 | CR2 | D
AA2521 | DFW-BPT | 11:20-12:35 | CR2 | D
AA2523 | DFW-BPT | 15:10-16:20 | CR2 | D
AA2525 | DFW-BPT | 18:25-19:35 | CR2 | x6
AA2510 | BPT-DFW | 06:30-07:45 | CR2 | D
AA2543 | BPT-DFW | 10:20-11:30 | CR2 | D
AA2521 | BPT-DFW | 13:05-14:15 | CR2 | D
AA2523 | BPT-DFW | 16:50-18:00 | CR2 | x6

Starts 14FEB2013:

AA2537 | DFW-FAR | 12:05-14:30 | CR2 | D
AA2537 | FAR-DFW | 15:05-17:50 | CR2 | D

Starts 14FEB2013:

AA3396 | DFW-COU | 12:00-13:25 | ER4 | D
AA3348 | DFW-COU | 18:55-20:25 | ER4 | x6
AA3215 | COU-DFW | 06:45-08:35 | ER4 | D
AA3291 | COU-DFW | 17:40-19:25 | ER4 | x6

Starts 14FEB2013:

AA3919 | ORD-COU | 15:55-17:10 | ER4 | D
AA3900 | COU-ORD | 13:55-15:20 | ER4 | D


User currently offlineAndie007 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 867 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months ago) and read 20989 times:

Berlin isn't really a large scale business destination lilke Munich, Frankfurt and Düsseldorf. LH is quite profitable on their longhaul routes and quite good protected this market within the last few years (esp. in granting large scale regional companies quite good fares on their busses).

AA does not surprise me. DUS is currently one of the major hubs in Germany for Air Berlin (and other OW carriers). AB itself will start TXL-ORD besides running already JFK from DUS and TXL. Let's see whether they're able to acquire enough business traveller on the route (which should be more easy comparted to Berlin).


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11632 posts, RR: 61
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 20942 times:

With regard to DFW-ICN specifically, it is now going to be interesting to see what impact AA's entrance into the market will have on KE, which has been flying the route for years. AA will obviously have a more convenient schedule (daily) although KE will obviously have the better hard/soft product in all cabins.

I suspect the two can coexist in the market, given that KE is targeting a largely different customer set than AA (more VFR and beyond-ICN connections vs AA's more U.S.-originating, corporate and O&D focus), although I do think KE will probably go back down to year-round 3x weekly 777.

Also of note - unimportant, but interesting - the new DFW-ICN flights will get the old SEA-NRT flight numbers.


User currently offlinejcwr56 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 499 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 20927 times:

Quoting realsim (Reply 9):
Starts 11APR2013:

AA242 | ORD-DUS | 17:00-08:15 | 763 | D
AA241 | DUS-ORD | 12:10-14:20 | 763 | D

This arrival time into ORD is a place holder. It will fall somwhere between 1155-1420.

AA would love the earlier arrival time but issues in DUS is pushing it back to 1420 and probably playing safe by using this time.


User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 755 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 20789 times:

So is JFK-DUB coming at the expense of ORD-DUB, or is that one back as well?

It is interesting that 3 of the 4 long haul routes will have competition:

DFW-ICN vs KE
ORD-DUS vs LH
JFK-DUB vs EI and DL (and indirectly UA at EWR)

Nonetheless, good to see AA adding international routes, and I hope they do well.



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5192 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 20675 times:

DFW-BPT was also a seemingly wise move - with UA pulling air service and sending a bus there from IAH.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 681 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 20674 times:

This is SUPER exciting news! DFW-LIM (Where is BOG!?) has been a LONG time coming, I know ICN is going to do spectacularly with AA"s heavy military traffic, and DUS? Wow! A new European destination!!

Note the domestic trips are on CR2s - those will be OO... Hmmm...

[Edited 2012-10-24 06:01:51]

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8375 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 20588 times:
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Quoting mhkansan (Reply 15):
This is SUPER exciting news! DFW-LIM (Where is BOG!?) has been a LONG time comin

Didn't AA fly previously from DFW to Lima ?


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11632 posts, RR: 61
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 20569 times:

Quoting FSDan (Reply 13):
So is JFK-DUB coming at the expense of ORD-DUB, or is that one back as well?

Good question.

Quoting FSDan (Reply 13):
DFW-ICN vs KE
ORD-DUS vs LH
JFK-DUB vs EI and DL (and indirectly UA at EWR)

Personally, I think AA should be able to hold its own against the competition in all those markets, with the possible exception of ORD-DUS. I will be interested to see if that makes it past the summer 2013 season.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 16):
Didn't AA fly previously from DFW to Lima ?

Yes - from 1996 to 2006.


User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1600 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 20510 times:

From what route will AA pull the 772s for the ICN run? I suppose AA will have two or so 77Ws by this time? How many aircraft does it take to run DFW - ICN?

User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17504 posts, RR: 45
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 20479 times:

All sensible adds except for ORDDUS--that's going to be a bit like JFKBUD but I'm sure the connectivity to PMI will be great . I'm a little surprised ICN came before HKG but there is a lot of high yield traffic to and flowing over DFW that should be right in AA's wheelhouse, rather than--or perhaps in addition to--KE. Also a interesting DUB comes before a secondary UK destination given the BA/AA JV...


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11632 posts, RR: 61
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 20458 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 18):
From what route will AA pull the 772s for the ICN run? I suppose AA will have two or so 77Ws by this time?

Yes. By next May AA will certainly have 2 77Ws - but AA has slack 777 capacity anyway.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 18):
How many aircraft does it take to run DFW - ICN?

2 or, more likely, 1.5 if they combine it with a South America route. Example: DFW-ICN and DFW-EZE on their own each require 2 aircraft (for a total of 4) for a daily round-trip with their current schedule, but you can run both daily with only 3 aircraft if you rotate the jets between the two routes.


User currently offlinegdg9 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 644 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 20424 times:

I'm curious to see how the AA DFW-ICN route will fare against KE, who are running 5x a week if I'm not mistaken. KE on board product is superior to AA IMHO, and KE has built up a nice reputation on this route locally over the years.

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11632 posts, RR: 61
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 20364 times:

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 21):
against KE, who are running 5x a week if I'm not mistaken.

With this, I suspect KE will be reducing frequency again back to where it traditionally was up until recently.

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 21):
KE on board product is superior to AA IMHO, and KE has built up a nice reputation on this route locally over the years.

KE's product is superior, and they do have a good reputation, but AA is also going to capture a large portion of the U.S.-originating traffic in this market, much of which used to transfer over NRT (despite the nonstop KE flight) because of the AAdvantage allegiance. I was once told - and wasn't a bit surprised - that ICN was the single largest connecting market between AA and JAL over NRT.

Ultimately, I do think the two can coexist because they are targeting very different markets. KE focuses more on Asia-originating, or U.S.-originating that is primarily VFR - with lots of connections to the big ethnic markets around Asia. AA is obviously going to be focused far more on the U.S.-originating, business-based market.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17504 posts, RR: 45
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 20351 times:

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 21):
KE on board product is superior to AA IMHO, and KE has built up a nice reputation on this route locally over the years.

It's not really about product, although the new AA product should be competitive. People in DFW, GRK, SAT, etc are going to want AA miles, and that is where AA will have a tremendous advantage over KE, where Skyteam is of much lesser value.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinejcwr56 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 499 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 20342 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 6):Since the cat is out of the bag, AA had been planning 2 new international routes from ORD but only ended up with DUS.

Any hints as to what #2 was? Aircraft type to have been used? Region of the world?

763 and Europe


25 neutral : Dublin to Chicago still bookable in June/July so looks as if we'll have 2 daily flights to Dublin during the summer....
26 hohd : With the addition of DFW-BPT, may be UA will reconsider IAH-BPT plane service (instead of a bus). They will lose quite a few passengers to AA. Also th
27 commavia : Not to mention that AA will be able to do with DFW-ICN what it has for years been doing with DFW-NRT - namely, moving tons of people and cargo over D
28 aaexecplat : I can't make sense of this route either. JFK-FRA would have been a much better option especially with regard to yields. Not nearly to the same degree
29 Tdan : Love all the new adds except ORDDUS is a head scratcher. Even ORDHEL (which was a terrible add) made more logical sense. DUS-US is almost entirely DUS
30 Post contains images IrishAyes : Wowowowowowowowowowowow. This made my day!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TWO new exciting international routes from DFW, although not unserved previously - and ORD-DUS
31 AmricanShamrok : This is competing head to head with United from Newark in terms of timings and aircraft type. To compare: UA22 | EWR-DUB | 19:10-06:55 | 752 UA23 | D
32 HeeseokKoo : DFW-ICN used to be the last destination with KE's latest product. When KE upgraded cradle style business class to angled lie-flat and installed AVOD
33 sw733 : I am a happy camper now! I think I'll be doing more business in Korea, and it usually ends at about 12:00pm on the final day so I can make it out tha
34 commavia : The joint AA/JL schedule out of ICN heading east is now going to be quite competitive. JL has 2 daily ICN-NRT flights, one in the morning (0800) and
35 bobloblaw : Doubt ORD-DUS will work with Star Alliance so strong at both ends. I hope they do DFW-ICN wit ha 773 cuz the yields will be low and they need a place
36 crAAzy : Good news on all fronts. I'm particularly excited about the ORD-DUS route although personally I would have preferred AA to fly ORD - Berlin on it's ow
37 crAAzy : Also interesting is that DFW-ICN will now become AA's second longest route (only about 200 miles behind ORD-PVG).
38 HOONS90 : This is the single best piece of news I've heard all year. I'm serious. I am ecstatic!
39 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : It goes without saying that this pretty much made my month!!!!! Ill go one by one: DFW-ICN - This route has been rumored since I moved to Dallas three
40 ckfred : Since AB has hubs at both Berlin and DUS, AA/AB/Oneworld must expect to capture traffic that can connect through AB's hubs in Germany, as well as U.S.
41 HOONS90 : Will this make ICN the Asian airport served by the most amount of US-based (passenger) airlines? There will be AA, UA, DL and HA.
42 Post contains images commavia : I don't expect AA to put a plane that large on DFW-ICN. With the amount of corporate and O&D traffic that exists in that market, I'm not so sure
43 mogandoCI : ORD - PEK / PVG LAX - PVG DFW - ICN It's nice to see them finally expanding to Asia, but a single TPAC hub probably would serve them better than seemi
44 commavia : P2P? All of those link major foreign markets with major U.S. hubs for AA. A "single TPAC hub" is not economically or strategically feasible for AA -
45 YYZBound : I'm not sure why everyone is dogging the ORD-HEL route...it actually is quite full according to my friends who work it.
46 mogandoCI : UA has a single core TPAC hub at SFO with bespoke services out of other hubs. DL used to have a single DTW hub but started to realize SEA is more geo
47 LAXdude1023 : While UA has SFO as its largest Asian hub, UA's Asian network (ex-NRT) is scattered between SFO, ORD, and EWR. For that reason, I dont think the firs
48 mogandoCI : DL's ATL-PVG is also massive on both ends, and that failed miserably (with 500 mile shorter routing, longer range equipment, better brand recognition
49 cgnnrw : Happy to see another carrier/destination from DUS to the States. Although I was secretly hoping for DUS-DTW or DUS-PHL (previously discussed on anothe
50 commavia : Okay, so ... in other words ... as I said, the other two U.S. carriers also don't have a "single TPAC hub," which was the original assertion. Core hu
51 Post contains images VC10DC10 : I still think this route makes a lot of sense (and a lot more sense than a lot of ORD-XYZ Europe routes that some have suggested). Except LAX is swam
52 pesit4a : Dublin Airport advise JFK-DUB will be all year round. I doubt AA will have much of a problem here. NYC is not nearly as seasonal as other US routes fr
53 YYZBound : People said the same about BUD but it was always full as well. And it made sense to provide the traffic to Malev's network until they ceased operatio
54 styles9002 : AA operated BOS-SNN with a B757 in 2005 and some of 2006 in addition to ORD-DUB. When BOS-SNN was axed, AA re-routed ORD-DUB to be ORD-DUB-SNN to com
55 Post contains images RAGAZZO777 : . This flight was long overdue and with the Peruvian economy booming it should do WELL. I'm sure AA will test the waters first with the 757 and will
56 upsmd11 : Interesting to see CR2 on the AA schedule, I thought they were all CR7 and ER4. Who is flying these for AA? John
57 N62NA : Well, don't forget, the 763 biz class will "soon" be getting the new "biz suite" seats. The question is, how "soon" is "soon" which for AA could be 8
58 mogandoCI : No one knows how DFW-SYD is doing other than vague statements from management. We all thought EWR-SIN or ORD-DEL was doing fine since each kept it ar
59 boberito6589 : ExpressJet out of DFW and SkyWest out of LAX
60 LAXdude1023 : Well, the scheduled has been continually increased and very few people ever though ORD-DEL was doing well. Managment from American never once said th
61 IrishAyes : This is the one I'm actually unsure of. AA couldn't hack ORDFRA (although UA/LH just simply steamrolled them on this route). With an existing ORDDUS
62 commavia : Well ... that ... and the fact that QANTAS has substantially grown its operation on the route since it started. I realize that doesn't necessarily "p
63 RAGAZZO777 : Let me disagree with you on this one as LAN expressed an interest in flying into ORD from LIM as recently as this year. Also, if i'm not mistaken, LA
64 realsim : They will be flown as "American Eagle" by EV with 11 CRJ-200. From LAX, OO will fly 12 CR2 as well.
65 BoeingGuy : Yep, I flew it back in 2002. Was totally full going down, but only about half full coming back. So what's next left for DFW-South America? DFW-BOG DF
66 Post contains images caliboy78 : I'm wondering what AA has in store for LAX
67 LAXdude1023 : DFW-CLO/LPB/UIO/GYE are all non-starters. Those wouldnt work from DFW. UIO barely works from IAH and ATL. The former as a larger O&D and the late
68 AeroWesty : IST was mentioned in the post by an "insider" who broke the DFW-ICN news on 10/18, then quickly erased his/her post on FT.
69 mtnwest1979 : True, but it will be flown with CR2s.
70 IrishAyes : GIG is a far more promising candidate than small, think markets like UIO, GYE and CLO. AA also has to maintain an optimal balance between its MIA and
71 mogandoCI : And yet they flew it for how many years ? 6 ? 8 ?
72 LAXdude1023 : It did fine for portions of the time, it was never a barn burner. It wasnt until AI also entered the market that ORD-DEL became a high-speed money bl
73 bobloblaw : Are there more people flying to ICN beyond DFW or more people flying from DFW to points beyond ICN? It is telling that DL couldnt make ATl-ICN work,
74 mogandoCI : AI is an airline with a so-so reputation and can't even close the deal to enter Star Alliance. Don't really understand why AA has trouble competing w
75 LAXdude1023 : Its very simple to understand actually. AI is owned by the government. There is no pressure to make any profit at all because they know that India wi
76 mogandoCI : ORD-MAN is a totally different animal. The fares are high because it has some BA cust base on the other side and monopoly status. If UA ever enters t
77 LAXdude1023 : Perhaps, but the point is still there. Competing with Air India is a lot harder than with most reputable carriers. Not because Air India is better, b
78 pilotfox : Anyone know when these become bookable, looking to redeem AA miles to PRG in July and hoping they open up some award space on the DUS route.
79 Fly2yyz : It'll be interesting to see how AA does in the market. I think connecting traffic will be vital for this route to survive on the AA side. But I don't
80 AeroWesty : Samsung. Samsung. Samsung. Of anywhere in Asia that AA could have picked for strong O&D traffic from the DFW hub, it would be ICN if you understa
81 LAXdude1023 : True that. Samsung Telecommunications America is headquatered in Dallas and Samsung has a huge semiconductor opperation in Austin. I also dont know i
82 LAXintl : And seemingly quite probable with EY very openly saying they want AB to develop a broad partnership with AF/KL. I suspect they do DFW-NRT today and c
83 mogandoCI : What's the O&D PDEW ? 200 ? 500 ? And does AA or KE have the Samsung contract ?
84 Post contains images Tdan : Only thing is that Samsung travels in the coach cabin. DFW-ICN will be a star with very high-yielding coach traffic (local O&D, Samsung, US Milit
85 LAXdude1023 : Um, no its closer to 75-90 range depending on the year. The ICN local market that are near that size are LAX and NYC. Not even SFO-ICN is that large
86 Post contains images commavia : I don't realistically see an enormous amount of additional organic growth left for AA at LAX. They already fly to most of the major markets they need
87 AeroWesty : True, which is why I feel we'll see one fewer DFW-NRT flights over time if DFW-ICN takes hold, and as the US-Japan O&D market continues to shrink
88 LAXdude1023 : I have hypothisized that DFW-NRT will eventually be one daily 77W. Long term, what I think may be doable: Daily 77W - DFW-NRT Daily 777 - DFW-ICN Dai
89 mah4546 : Dallas-Seoul is one of the largest Southeast U.S.-Asia markets. Goes approximately something like this: 1) Atlanta-Seoul 2) Orlando-Tokyo 3) Dallas-Se
90 SCL767 : The resumption of the DFW-LIM service is great news for the LIM hub. With the addition of AA's DFW-LIM service; oneworld will offer non-stop flights
91 AeroWesty : AA may have to fight it out with OZ's new 747F cargo flights into DFW which started this fall. Contracts may already be in place.
92 mah4546 : Kansas City, Colorado Springs, Spokane and Calgary were set to be announced before BK happened, just to give some examples of where to go. In additio
93 miaami : Welcome Back MAH4546!!!! - you have been missed.
94 miaintl : Would a nonstop flight to either HKG or NRT from MIA be viable, or is Asia service out of Miami just out of the question. If AA and its partner airlin
95 mhkansan : And MHK, CSG, ROW, LAW, SPS, SGF, and ATL-and onward connections that military travel agencies love to book on AA. And that traffic is high-yielding.
96 IrishAyes : Let's hope. Europe is kind of in shambles right now. While it's great that oneworld is starting two new Chicago-Germany routes this spring, I want to
97 YYZAMS : Am I the only one who thinks the ICN route is odd?
98 Fly2yyz : Why do you think its odd? Does it seem like an oddball route to you? I'm glad that OneWorld is paying attention to ICN
99 Post contains images PA101 : Yeah! It's great to see AA back in Germany for more than just FRA-DFW. I'd think they can make it work well as long as AB remains their OW codeshare
100 AAplat4life : I'm going to have to put my money on the Star team to prevail on the ORD-DUS route. It has a better product than the AA 767 and more capacity (A343 I
101 jfk777 : AA going tfrom 9 to 10 seats per row on their 777 is just adjusting to the market. They are killing First Class on their 777-200ER fleet and will hav
102 Post contains images commavia : In terms of hard and soft product, LH will win hands down. Ironically, though, LH - the German carrier - will actually probably not have quite as big
103 AAplat4life : The J class may very well prove to be a winner, but I don't think we can conclude yet that the 10 abreast in coach is adjusting to the market. On the
104 commavia : UA is 9-across on their 787s which, I believe, is essentially the same seat-width as a 10-across 777, so if I'm not mistaken, yes, AA's direct compet
105 AAplat4life : Well you are correct, AA should have a better presence in Germany. Right now, it is down to 1 maybe 2 flights a day into FRA? I think 1 flight out of
106 WA707atMSP : How tight is AA's gate space situation at LAX? We've had past discussions here that AA's growth at LAX is constrained because they are already maxing
107 gdg9 : A few years ago at least, DFW-NRT was filling both planes with freight, not sure how it is today. Surely there is also enough freight for DFW-ICN and
108 Post contains images commavia : I think DFW-NRT may well still be able to support 2x daily flights even with DFW-ICN. A nonstop DFW-ICN will absolutely pull a lot of traffic off the
109 HOONS90 : I will definitely be a frequent flyer on the new AA DFW-ICN route, even if it means enduring 3-4-3 in Y. Why? AAdvantage is an amazing FFP. Korean Air
110 mogandoCI : Quite the contrary, ICN-ORD is the first route that Asiana is deploying their brand new First suite (actual suite with sliding doors) with industry-l
111 commavia : Indeed. AA would never, in my view, be able to make ORD-ICN work. And not just because OZ will always have a superior product. AA's ORD hub is also n
112 mogandoCI : That's why it's best to deploy it on routes where no strong competitor exist, out of dominant hubs where the captive audience are loyal regardless. B
113 LAXdude1023 : Looking at this schedule, will you be able to connect between LIM and ICN at DFW? I dont know what the market size is, but I would think they would t
114 AeroWesty : DL's 777 fleet is a minor percentage of their international lift. My guess is DL won't follow the crowd, as they've invested a lot lately in the pass
115 BoeingGuy : I would think the connecting market for the DFW-LIM flight is more geared towards SEA, SJC, SNA, PDX, SLC, AUS, etc rather than ICN. Likewise, I woul
116 AA767400 : What will it take - in your opinion, for AA to compete against UA/DL? You seem to downplay any positive from the airline, and nothing seems to work f
117 LAXintl : Looking in GDS no. It says the minimum legal connection time needed is 1:30.
118 BoeingGuy : Just because it's allowable doesn't mean it's wise. I never schedule less than probably 2:30 in an international connection - more if possible. I've
119 miaami : They also convienetly omit ORD - NRT LAX - NRT DFW NRT X2 JFK -HND all of which, through their joint venture with JAL connect to most all of Asia.
120 LAXdude1023 : No doubt, but I would have thought that they would try to maximize connections from those flights anyway. I dont know how big the ICN-LIM market is,
121 realsim : In the press release they only explicitly mentioned Tokyo as a connection destination from LIM, so I guess it's one of they main targets. The schedul
122 mogandoCI : Read my posts again before jumping to conclusions. Europe and LatAm is large enough that multi hub strategy could prevail. For AA, Asia is small enou
123 Post contains images dcajet : Miami - Manila? Where did you pull that one from?
124 AA767400 : I have, in fact many times. No conclusions here. Since UA has SFO, and DL somewhat has SEA, what does AA need to do to compete? Add LAX- PEK/NGO/HKG/
125 AeroWesty : That one made me blink too. I can only guess at it's from Filipino staffing in the hospitality industry plus shipping/cruise lines based in Miami/S.
126 mah4546 : The 773 will have Cathay J. The 772 will have a brand new J product that AA itself is helping develop.
127 delta2ual : Actually, QF itself has said they are quite pleased with the results thus far. Even if AB switched to SkyTeam, couldn't they still codeshare with AA?
128 mah4546 : It's a large local market. Cruise ship crews need to get to their ships.[Edited 2012-10-25 11:53:15]
129 mogandoCI : No, they should totally stay the course. Hand off everyone at NRT and LHR then sit back and count the joint venture money.
130 dcajet : Can you quote the source from where you got that ranking please? Miami - Manila and to a lesser extent Miami - Hong Kong have very little grounding i
131 aaway : The short answer is yes, but any additional mainline flights would likely be shorthaul operations during off peak hours. To expound a bit, the curren
132 mah4546 : It's MIDT data, not publicly quoteable. Those are approximately the largest Southeast U.S.-Asia markets. MIAMNL sees significant cruise ship employee
133 Post contains images texan : But I thought eliminating the Wright Amendment made DFW-LIM unprofitable Texan
134 WROORD : I hope ORD-DUS works for AA I flew several times with LH on this route and the plane was full. Many pax prefer to transfer in DUS vs. FRA. However LH
135 miaintl : What aircraft is able to fly MIA-HKG nonstop? Plus just because the fares are high does not mean that has anything to do with premium demand.
136 DTWLAX : I think NRT is served by all four. Or does HA not fly to NRT? Not being able to close the deal with Star does not have any impact on AI competing wit
137 LAXdude1023 : In 2011, these were the largest South-Asia O&D markets: 1) Atlanta-Seoul 2) Dallas-Seoul 3) Houston-Saigon 4) Miami-Manila 5) Orlando-Tokyo 6) Hou
138 bobnwa : Do you have the point of sale ie:US or South Asia for the markets listed?
139 HOONS90 : HA flies to HND instead of NRT. Thanks for the info! Not a surprise that ATL will get the KE A380.
140 Post contains images AAIL86 : Shouldn't that be Ho Chi Minh City?
141 Post contains links HOONS90 : http://www.traveldailynews.asia/news...744/american-airlines-will-land-in The article above states that KE plans to increase DFW service to daily star
142 neveragain : No, it was adding Missouri to the Wright Amendment states. Just think of all of that connecting traffic from Kansas City and St. Louis to Lima! That
143 BoeingGuy : This is just like the debate on the recent thread on NH NRT-RGN, about whether it's Myanmar or Burma or Rangon or Yangoon. For political reasons, som
144 neveragain : Of course it was entirely meant as a joke. However, I think DFW-LIM was stopped after Missouri was added as a state, but before the settlement to ful
145 HeeseokKoo : For now, it seems KE is planning daily service from May 6th to Aug 31st. Still angled lie-flat business class equipment is deployed, but KE may upgra
146 miaami : DFW-ICN, DFW-LIM, ORD-DUS, JFK-DUB, were all loaded into Reservations last night and are now avail for purchase. Great to see AA expanding and special
147 LAXdude1023 : Just FYI, ICN-LIM through DFW is being sold as a legal connection with the current schedule. It is available that way on AA.com and GDS. The schedule
148 IrishAyes : Oof. Those are pretty tight connection times though.
149 neveragain : So this was updated?
150 LAXdude1023 : Nope, the connection times have always been the same. However, what we failed to bring up is that minimum connect times vary even within the same air
151 IrishAyes : This may be cumbersome, but let's envision two hypothetical scenarios: an arrival from LIM and arrival from ICN. Which other international flights ar
152 LAXdude1023 : Im not too worried about a LIM-DFW-ICN routing. A 915 arrival isnt too busy at DFW customs. The deep South America flights all arrive much earlier an
153 IrishAyes : Good to know. What are the other 1-stop options, you have ATL, and I suppose you have SFO, LAX, IAD and JFK but on unaligned carriers.
154 LAXdude1023 : On that routing, these are the fastest travel times in order: AA 26 ICNDFW 500P 420P AA2193 DFWLIM 530P 1225A KE 17 ICNLAX 315P 1025A LA 601 LAXLIM12
155 RAGAZZO777 : Indeed. AA's move comes as no suprise given that Korean Air is supposedly launching flights between Seoul and Lima from April 2013. . In North Americ
156 LAXdude1023 : Well, AA's target for both of these isnt the ICN-LIM market, its more of an icing on the cake. The DFW-ICN flight is aimed at O&D and connections
157 Post contains links RAGAZZO777 : The whole schedule will be announced next month according to this press article (in Spanish): http://www.tnews.com.pe/noticias/kor...l-entre-marzo-y-
158 SCL767 : LAN code-shares on this flight operated by KE and markets it as LA 5861. KE code-shares on this flight operated by LAN and markets it as KE 7693.
159 IrishAyes : Ahh, yes. I forgot that IAD never materialized for LA? Is there a huge local market between Seoul and Lima to make this work? I do know there is a la
160 LAXdude1023 : NRT-LIM is much larger than ICN-LIM. It will be interesting to see if that flies. However, KE does fly NRT-LAX so passengers could use NRT-LAX-LIM al
161 ADent : LH announced it was cutting all flying (intra-Europe) that doesn't include FRA or MUC. So you will now be connecting to Germanwings in DUS.
162 SCL767 : LA recently transferred two B-767-316ERs over to LAN Perú in order to launch the LIM-JFK route and to increase frequencies on the LIM-LAX and LIM-MI
163 IrishAyes : Thank you for this very detailed information. I did some research to answer my original question and found out that LAN received approval to launch I
164 SCL767 : Perú has Open Skies with the U.S., thus LAN Perú can launch new routes and increase frequencies on existing routes between LIM and the U.S. anytime
165 IrishAyes : Again, the supporting details are appreciated, but you're not answering my question. Did the route ever materialize and if not, why didn't it ever go
166 SCL767 : Nope. LAN Perú did not launch the route back in 2009 due to the economic crisis in the U.S.
167 IrishAyes : Thank you. That's what I was looking for all along.
168 IrishAyes : Officially added into GDS inventory today. Service now operates on Mondays and Fridays as well. KE031 ICN1100 – 0930DFW 772 D KE032 DFW1210 – 163
169 HOONS90 : I have a rather hard time believing that this capacity increase will be sustainable. Perhaps it's just a seasonal increase? If the market can't suppo
170 IrishAyes : Time will tell. The DFW marketplace has definitely evolved a LOT over the past 5 years. We've seen increased presence from both foreign flag and dome
171 HOONS90 : Good point. If KE pulls out of DFW, there will be no Far Eastern carriers serving DFW. I'm sure that AA's incredibly strong hub at DFW and vastly sup
172 neveragain : Aha, there is the answer!! It's a very logical connection that should be sold. And, if a lot of passengers are flying this route, and most end up mis
173 IrishAyes : Indeed. DL and KE hopefully will establish stronger links to continue to attract higher-yielding traffic. In the context of this industry, yes, durat
174 Cubsrule : Yes, or AA will figure out a way for the transfer passengers to get priority immigration handling or AA will hold the outbound flights. There are a l
175 neveragain : I would agree. DFW's generous air service incentive program helps a great deal as well (but probably doesn't make or break the route), especially for
176 LAXdude1023 : Yeah, KL is going to be the challenge. I will go ahead and say that EK wont be going anywhere. That route has made a very good start. QF wont go anyw
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