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WN November 19 Schedule Release/Route Discussions  
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4432 posts, RR: 6
Posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7641 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Southwest Airlines will have a schedule release November 19th which will cover from June 1, 2013 through August 9, 2013. This is an exciting time for Southwest Airlines with the merger integration in progress. Please feel free to share any merger or route related news or information that may add to the discussion. I did my best below to gather information below, but I can not guarantee it's accuracy nor that it is all there. The seasonal routes below are for Spring and not this Winter (sorry, I've spent enough time just gathering all of this)! I did not include previously started service (such as DSM-MDW) started before today's date. All the routes below have been previously announced.

FL cities not part of the WN system and not announced yet (but will be at some point):

Domestic:
MEM
GRR
PNS
RIC
ICT
SJU

International:
AUA
BDA
CUN
MEX
MBJ
NAS
PUJ
SJD

New upcoming routes already announced:
MCO-MSP (starts November 4, replacing FL)
MKE-MSP (starts November 4, replacing FL)
EYW-MCO (starts November 4, FL deceases November 3)
EYW-TPA (starts November 4, FL deceases November 3)
EYW-MSY (starts November 4)
DAL-HRL (starts November 4)
DEN-SDF (starts November 4)
HOU-IND (starts November 4)
HOU-SNA (starts November 4)
MCI-MSY (starts November 4)
BNA-LGA (starts January 6)
MCI-MSP (starts February 14)
EWR-AUS (March 9 IIRC)
EWR-MSY (March 9 IIRC)
EWR-BNA (March 9 IIRC)
BKG-MDW (starts March 9, FL deceases March 8)
BKG-DAL (starts March 9)
BKG-HOU (starts March 9, FL deceases March 8)
BKG-MCO (Saturday only, starts March 9, FL service ends March 8)
LGA-MKE (transferring from FL in March)
CMH-TPA (transferring from FL in March)
CLT-BWI, MDW, HOU, MCO (starts April 14, all FL routes from CLT deceased April 13)
ROC-BWI, MDW, MCO, TPA (starts April 14, all FL routes from ROC deceased April 13)
FNT-BWI, MCO, TPA (starts April 14, all FL routes from FNT deceased April 13)
PWM-BWI (starts April 14, FL deceases operations April 13)
BOS-MCI (starts April 14)
HOU-PIT (starts April 14)
BWI-PUJ ( starts April 14 on FL equipment, pending government approval)

Seasonal returns (already announced for next Spring):
BWI-SEA
CLE-LAS
MCI-OAK
SAN-STL

Seasonal cuts (already announced for next Spring):
RSW-BNA
RSW-BOS
RSW-ISP
RSW-BOS
MCO-DAY
MCO-IND
PBI-PIT
PBI-PVD
TPA-GRR (FL)
RSW-DTW (FL)
RSW-GRR (FL, wouldn't be surprised if this is cut permanently)
RSW-CAK (FL, wouldn't be surprised if this is cut permanently)

Routes FL will again fly in the Spring:
BUF-FLL
MCO-MSP (transitioning to WN on Nov. 4 then goes back to FL)
PHL-PBI
PHL-RSW

Routes being cut permanently:
BOI-PDX
BUR-DEN
HOU-PHL
EWR-BWI (ends March 8)
LGA-BWI (ends Jan. 5)
RSW-FNT (FL)
ATL-FNT (FL)
ATL-CLT (FL)
ATL-ROC (FL)
BKG-ATL (FL)
BKG-BWI (FL)

New FL flights to supplement WN flights:
MCO-STL
MCO-MCI
BUF-TPA
MDW-FLL

Seasonal FL supplements to WN flights:
BOS-MKE
TPA-MDW
TPA-CMH

My guesses for the next schedule release:

ICT-DEN or MDW or possibly HOU
MEM-MDW/HOU/BWI/MCO
GRR-BWI/MCO/TPA
RIC-MDW, BNA, and/or MCO
PNS-HOU, BWI, and/or BNA

Possibly SJU service (SJU-MCO, BWI)

199 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7629 times:

Could we possibly see a CLT-DEN flight

User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1972 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7597 times:

DAY needs to be added onto...either MDW or MCI or BWI...same goes with PWM.

User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7671 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7557 times:

Well done list. I'm hearing that they are trying to cutover cities that are losing ATL service (or never had ATL service) first. Your whole list here probably fall into that group, although I think RIC needs ATL service and ATL needs cities like RIC for feed.

Quoting iowaman (Thread starter):
Domestic:
MEM
GRR
PNS
RIC
ICT
SJU

GRR: I wonder why this wasn't converted instead of FNT. The routes work better for WN code than FL code. Still BWI/MCO/FLL

MEM: I strongly doubt ATL-MEM will remain, so I think this will be a high priority for cutover. The only question is whether there will be HOU or DAL. I suspect this pattern: DAL 2x, MDW 2x, MCO 1x, BWI 2x. DEN would surprise me. HOU might supplant DAL.

PNS: Probably high on the list. I think service will be scant. HOU 2x, FLL 1x, BWI 2x

RIC: Should have ATL 3x, but I bet it loses it. Prediction: MDW 3x, MCO 1x, TPA or FLL 1x, BNA 1x

ICT: 2x DEN, 2x MDW

SJU: I think SJU will be announced before Nov19. They are just waiting on technology issues.


User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7545 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
MEM: I strongly doubt ATL-MEM will remain, so I think this will be a high priority for cutover. The only question is whether there will be HOU or DAL.

I don't think TN is within the Wright Amendment zone, so no MEM-DAL until at least 10/2014.


User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7459 times:

Quoting iowaman (Thread starter):
RSW-ISP

This route has been seasonal for about two-three years, so no surprise.

Quoting iowaman (Thread starter):
PBI-PVD

This route was originally announced as a seasonal flight, so again, no surprise here.

My predictions:

ISP-EYW (I've been told by somebody to look for it soon. I don't know what soon is, but still, I predict a seasonal flight)
SJU-BWI/HOU/PVD/MCO/FLL/MSY
CLT-DEN/BWI/HOU/MCO/ATL


User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7451 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 5):
ISP-EYW (I've been told by somebody to look for it soon. I don't know what soon is, but still, I predict a seasonal flight)
SJU-BWI/HOU/PVD/MCO/FLL/MSY
CLT-DEN/BWI/HOU/MCO/ATL

I know Delta just introduced Holiday LGA-EYW, but I have a hard time believing WN could physically make ISP-EYW work. Never say never though.

As for CLT, 3 of the 5 destinations you listed have already been added as of 4-14-13. I definitely think we'll see a CLT-DEN, but CLT-ATL would shock me.


User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7446 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 5):

I think they could make

1X DEN
1X STL

what are your thoughts


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7418 times:

Talk about being early on posting this thread....

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 5):
(I've been told by somebody to look for it soon. I don't know what soon is, but still, I predict a seasonal flight)

The user actually said direct flight, not non-stop.

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
SJU: I think SJU will be announced before Nov19. They are just waiting on technology issues.

Does an airline need flag carrier status to fly to SJU? WN did not have flag carrier status when the extension came out and just yesterday got it. I agree it could come out before the extension.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4615 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7357 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 8):
Does an airline need flag carrier status to fly to SJU? WN did not have flag carrier status when the extension came out and just yesterday got it. I agree it could come out before the extension.

Hmm.  

SJU is obviously the easiest to switch over since it is still a domestic city. I personally don't think it will be very long at all before we hear about the plans for SJU.

[Edited 2012-10-24 14:18:52]

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5592 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7291 times:

Anybody else notice a trend (all right, ANOTHER trend) happening at WN these days? I think in this entire thread so far, one route involving a city west of DEN is mentioned -- SNA-HOU (new route starting 11/4.)

(There are a couple of "returning seasonal" routes mentioned in the great list compiled by iowaman in the OP that include w/c cities but that's pretty much it.)

I'm not (really) saying that this is good or bad but it is a trend that seems to a big part of WN's current strategy. This is a strategy that is also being seen with B6... Interesting

(And don't worry, airliner371, I'm not even going to wish for SAN-ATL any more. I give up on seeing that route flown by Canyon Blue in my lifetime!)

My predictions for the November 19 schedule extention: lots of things east of the Rockies!

bb


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1972 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7249 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
ICT: 2x DEN, 2x MDW

You can probably tack on a few DAL flights, and maybe a STL flight or two.


User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7244 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 8):

Good point, I didn't notice that. I mix them up a lot.


User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7214 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):
Anybody else notice a trend (all right, ANOTHER trend) happening at WN these days? I think in this entire thread so far, one route involving a city west of DEN is mentioned -- SNA-HOU (new route starting 11/4.)

I think part of the reason for this is that FL was much larger and stronger (read: had an actual presence in) the east coast and because of this, we're seeing much of the "growth" take place in the northeast, southeast, and midwest.

Somewhat related: I've been wondering how long MHT-BNA lasted. I was looking through some old route maps and it occurred to me that this particular route was flown for a while; definitely one of the first few routes out of MHT. Anyone have an info on this? I'd love to see a MHT-BNA return or a MHT-STL, even if they were only seasonal routes to offer more SE and SW US connections in the winter (although I won't hold my breath!)


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7164 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):
And don't worry, airliner371, I'm not even going to wish for SAN-ATL any more. I give up on seeing that route flown by Canyon Blue in my lifetime!

You've really turned negative towards WN but I don't know why. All I'm gonna say to this is look at the entire SWA network and count the destinations that are served from ATL. There are 12 routes from ATL on WN. SAN is not the only city missing. I bet when all is said and done SAN along with west coast cities like SLC, OAK, PDX or SNA will be added to ATL. I can say a lot more but you've heard it all from me before.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7072 times:

Today WN officially received international ops specifications from the FAA.
This gives the green light for WN to start SJU service very soon.
Service should be announced next week.
Finally awesome!!!!!
Wnfg 



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently onlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5209 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7031 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 15):

Today WN officially received international ops specifications from the FAA.
This gives the green light for WN to start SJU service very soon.
Service should be announced next week.
Finally awesome!!!!!
Wnfg 

Great news...c'moooooon HOU-SJU



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinemke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2465 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6882 times:

Well there sure was a lot of hype about the most recent schedule extension and then nothing seemed to come out of it.


Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4615 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6827 times:

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 17):
Well there sure was a lot of hype about the most recent schedule extension and then nothing seemed to come out of it.

?!?!?

Four cities getting full WN conversions is nothing? Geesh. What are people expecting?


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6780 times:

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 17):
Well there sure was a lot of hype about the most recent schedule extension and then nothing seemed to come out of it.

Just 4 cities... nbd.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 18):
Four cities getting full WN conversions is nothing? Geesh. What are people expecting?

I completely agree.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6779 times:

4 cities is a huge deal guys

User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6730 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 20):
4 cities is a huge deal guys

It is! I don't know what people were expecting but thats pretty amazing.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5221 posts, RR: 21
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6673 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 18):


What are people expecting?

I think people were expecting full codeshare and further intergration by this point. 1st quarter 2013 is the game changer for WN/FL. This is by far the most protracted integration I've ever witnessed in this industry. For an airline as highly regarded as WN, this whole exercise has been one embarrassing snafu after another, IMHO. Personally I've experienced two major glitches with the transistion:

1) After I had already used TurboTax for my returns in January, WN comes along in Febraury and says "get RR points for using TurboTax. I sent a letter to WN stating that I had already filed my taxes and could I get a waiver for the points, no response. FAIL.

2) I had FL points due to expire so I donated them to charity (glad to do that as I didn't have enough to redeen for anything) but two weeks later WN says I can transfer my FL credits to RRs. FAIL.

At the very least the FF programs should have switched to a single program ASAP.

WN still has my business when possible, but their sluggishness with this integration is taxing.



The best IFE: A window seat and a good book.
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6638 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 22):
but two weeks later WN says I can transfer my FL credits to RRs. FAIL.

This part is not their fault. Just luck of the draw.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5221 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6610 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 23):


This part is not their fault. Just luck of the draw.

Yes, it is their fault for not combining the FF programs earlier. I mean airline A and airline B sign a codeshare agreement and they have reciprocal FF miles virtually overnight. This is an ACQUISTION and they farted around for months and months.



The best IFE: A window seat and a good book.
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6844 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 24):
Yes, it is their fault for not combining the FF programs earlier.

No, its not because...

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 24):
This is an ACQUISTION and they farted around for months and months.

No, the entire time they have been working tirelessly. Their IT system is a failure and we all know it. But they have been able to get around it. Thats no easy job. They had to do a lot before they could making converting FF points available and they have to do a lot before the codeshare is available. They are working even more tirelessly to get the new RES system in place in 2014/15. Nothing in this acquisition is easy. They cannot just flip a switch to turn a codeshare on or to make FF point converting available.

So again, you missing the FF conversions by two weeks is not their fault.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlinekkephart13 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 26, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6662 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 19):
Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 17):
Well there sure was a lot of hype about the most recent schedule extension and then nothing seemed to come out of it.

Just 4 cities... nbd.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 18):
Four cities getting full WN conversions is nothing? Geesh. What are people expecting?



I agree as well to this, that this is no big deal. These arent new cities. They will just convert the metal and the staff over from FL to WN. This is gonna happen pretty much with the small/medium FL Stations over the next year. Look at DSM, SEA, and PHX to name a few.



[quote=southwest737500,reply=20]4 cities is a huge deal guys

Your right, Especially since WN now has permission for international, IF they announce (Converting) SJU or CUN, (and opening) HNL or ANC or anything of that nature. My opinion is (With all due respect, and im not trying to cause stuff) This is a big deal to you because they finally announced CLT.

[Edited 2012-10-24 20:12:44]

[Edited 2012-10-24 20:13:42]


[Edited 2012-10-24 20:15:03]

User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6909 times:

With these most recent station transitions from WN to FL and maybe some more in the next release, I think more international destinations will be announced for the FL planes that are freed up by these transitions...

ACA, BOG, CCS, SJO, LIR, PTY... In addition to additional MEX, PVR, CUN, MBJ, etc.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4615 posts, RR: 23
Reply 28, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6895 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 22):
1) After I had already used TurboTax for my returns in January, WN comes along in Febraury and says "get RR points for using TurboTax. I sent a letter to WN stating that I had already filed my taxes and could I get a waiver for the points, no response. FAIL.

2) I had FL points due to expire so I donated them to charity (glad to do that as I didn't have enough to redeen for anything) but two weeks later WN says I can transfer my FL credits to RRs. FAIL.

Those aren't glitches in the WN system, that is just bad timing. Why should WN compensate you points for the TurboTax thing when you did it on your own? Not everyone files their taxes right away in January. Also, like any promotion they are typically driven by the end vendor to create business. I'm sure Intuit had a predetermined timeline setup in their agreement with WN to offer partner points to Rapid Rewards. If you were wanting to get credit for that promotion, you spoke to the wrong company. If it is like SkyMiles and other programs, Intuit purchased a block of points or had an agreement for an amount, and was responsible for awarding those to specific RR accounts by sending it through the Partner system. You should have contacted Intuit. If people who have the Chase card don't get their points, they are always going to be referred to Chase to ensure everything is proper on that end so they can transfer the correct amount of points over to WN and the RR account.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 22):
At the very least the FF programs should have switched to a single program ASAP.

Sure things could have progressed faster, I'm not going to dispute that. I think all of us would have loved to see things move a bit faster. We are finally starting to see a lot of good movement. The new AirTran credit card is over with Chase now, which will make it an easy transition to the WN card. The FL A+ program is very similar to RR1.0 so that created some issue on how to combine it with the new RR2.0. Essentially you can transfer points out of RR2.0 into FL A+, however anything coming back from FL goes into the old RR1.0 style of rewards. Is it ideal? Not really. Most of us would love to see RR1.0 go away completely to get things simplified. However, there also needs to a system in place that is fair to pax who were loyal to FL.

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 26):
I agree as well to this, that this is no big deal. These arent new cities. They will just convert the metal and the staff over from FL to WN. This is gonna happen pretty much with the small/medium FL Stations over the next year. Look at DSM, SEA, and PHX to name a few.

I look at it being a big deal because this is probably the biggest chunk of the FL network converted to date so far. There are only a few more domestic cities that don't have any WN presence and I doubt that will last much longer. That includes SJU which could be resolved sooner rather than later.

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 26):
Your right, Especially since WN now has permission for international, IF they announce (Converting) SJU or CUN, (and opening) HNL or ANC or anything of that nature. My opinion is (With all due respect, and im not trying to cause stuff) This is a big deal to you because they finally announced CLT.

He's obviously been very anxious for his hometown airport getting converted and its finally happened. I'm sure it is a big deal to those in FNT, ROC, and PWM as well. Much like it will be the same for those in ICT, GRR, and the other remaining cities. The proving flights are definitely extremely important to get Hawaii going, but also to get SJU moved over to WN metal quickly. We'll see how fast Hawaii is announced, but I think the main target right now the obvious choice - when it comes to ease of conversion.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 29, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6852 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 19):
Just 4 cities... nbd.

I want to clarify because a user thought I was serious. I am being 100% sarcastic when I say, "nbd". Its a huge deal, no question about it.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5221 posts, RR: 21
Reply 30, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6732 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 28):

But the entire transaction is being handled amaturishly, that is my point. There really is no exuse for this piece-meal approach.



The best IFE: A window seat and a good book.
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 31, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6596 times:

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 26):

Of corse it'd a big deal to me I've waited 10 years for WN to finally come to CLT


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6729 posts, RR: 24
Reply 32, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6578 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 30):
But the entire transaction is being handled amaturishly, that is my point.

But I think your point is invalid. While the transition might be slower than desired, it's actually being done in a way that doesn't produce the chaos that we've seen with other mergers. The UA/CO merger progressed faster, but the end result has not been pretty....UA today is a mish-mash of products, angry employees and dismal service. And instead of producing revenue synergies like a merger is supposed to do, UA's revenue numbers have actually turned negative. UA has little benefit to show from this merger.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 33, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6571 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 30):
But the entire transaction is being handled amaturishly, that is my point. There really is no exuse for this piece-meal approach.

Just because its going slow does not mean they work amateurishly. It is helping prevent huge problems like UA/CO had. I guess because its not going as fast as you would like they are working terribly, your absolutely incorrect.

[Edited 2012-10-25 03:58:41]


"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlineJONC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6568 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 18):

for once i agree with ya lol . .but until the IT issues are officialy resolved. . .I dont expect any major changes. . .but supposedly the IT issues will be fixed with the 1Q. Given high costs off fuel and payroll and the obvious desire to cut overhead, I really doubt there will be the major expansion that folks would like. I do however think SJU will get some decent levels of service but as far as the domestic service goes. . .just staying flat on ASMs would be more than I would expect.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6440 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
ICT: 2x DEN, 2x MDW

I think they will have to do a ICT-DAL 2-3x with thru to HOU or ICT-DAL 2x with 1x to HOU

I dont see WN in ATL being bigger then 100 daily flights.


User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6406 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 35):
I think they will have to do a ICT-DAL 2-3x with thru to HOU or ICT-DAL 2x with 1x to HOU

I could see ICT start with about 7 flights:

2x - DAL [333mi]
2x - DEN [420mi]
1x - MDW [589mi]
1x - HOU [565mi]
1x - LAS or PHX [986/870mi]

Most of these are short- to mid-haul routes that fit well into WNs new (no ultra short-haul) flights.


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5221 posts, RR: 21
Reply 37, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6407 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 33):


I guess because its not going as fast as you would like they are working terribly, your absolutely incorrect.

I'm far from alone with my opinion. WN could have kept FL as an independent International subsidiary forever but taking as long as they did before linking FF programs WAS amateurish, again my opinion. WN's IT platform was not ready for the acquisition, plain and simple. I have no issue with the gradual transition program they've chosen but so many other issues are indicitive that WN wasn't ready for the deal.

Avoiding the UA/CO mess is smart, don't get me wrong.



The best IFE: A window seat and a good book.
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4432 posts, RR: 6
Reply 38, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6314 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):

(And don't worry, airliner371, I'm not even going to wish for SAN-ATL any more. I give up on seeing that route flown by Canyon Blue in my lifetime!)

Give it time. I think SAN may have a shot, unlike a lot of the smaller stations.

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 13):
Somewhat related: I've been wondering how long MHT-BNA lasted. I was looking through some old route maps and it occurred to me that this particular route was flown for a while; definitely one of the first few routes out of MHT. Anyone have an info on this? I'd love to see a MHT-BNA return or a MHT-STL, even if they were only seasonal routes to offer more SE and SW US connections in the winter (although I won't hold my breath!)

MHT-BNA was around from at least 2000-2005, after doing some research in my old WN flight schedule guides. Interesting to note MCI was served for a while as well. Keep in mind these are weekday frequencies:

June 2000:
8x BWI
2x MDW
1x MCI
1x BNA
1x MCO (2x daily on Saturdays)

October 2002:
9x BWI
2x MDW
1x MCI
2x BNA
3x MCO
2x TPA

June 2003:
10x BWI
2x MDW
1x MCI
2x BNA
3x MCO
2x TPA

Sometime in 2005:
11x BWI
4x MDW
1x LAS
2x BNA
4x MCO
5x PHL
3x TPA

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 35):
I think they will have to do a ICT-DAL 2-3x with thru to HOU or ICT-DAL 2x with 1x to HOU
Quoting sdoyon (Reply 36):
could see ICT start with about 7 flights:

2x - DAL [333mi]
2x - DEN [420mi]
1x - MDW [589mi]
1x - HOU [565mi]
1x - LAS or PHX [986/870mi]

I'd be mildly surprised if it's that aggressive in the beginning. It takes a several million dollar subsidy just to maintain the 3x daily ICT-ATL flights. A MDW-ICT-DAL-HOU routing would be nice as you stated though.


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3172 posts, RR: 2
Reply 39, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6298 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 38):

At a curiosity, what was the purpose of these MCI flights? I recall they flew PVD-MCI and maybe BDL-MCI. I always thought they were a little weird. Everything from MCI is basically served from MDW.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6281 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 38):
MHT-BNA was around from at least 2000-2005, after doing some research in my old WN flight schedule guides. Interesting to note MCI was served for a while as well. Keep in mind these are weekday frequencies:

Thanks for the info; very interesting! It's hard to believe that MHT had 30+ daily flights on WN--sign of the times I suppose.


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4432 posts, RR: 6
Reply 41, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6255 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 39):
At a curiosity, what was the purpose of these MCI flights? I recall they flew PVD-MCI and maybe BDL-MCI

None of my timetables from 2000-2005 show BDL-MCI as ever being non-stop, however they all show 1x daily PVD-MCI. Maybe someone else can highlight more into why they flew PVD-MCI. There were quite a few published connections and one-stop flights available in my summer of 2000 timetable to the west coast through MCI from PVD including ABQ, LAS, OKC, PHX, SLC, SAN, SEA, and TUL. I suspect stuff like east coast-MCI-xxx was more common back then as the fleet consisted of a lot more -200's and -300's then (unable to do cross country flights).


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7671 posts, RR: 15
Reply 42, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5872 times:

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 4):
I don't think TN is within the Wright Amendment zone, so no MEM-DAL until at least 10/2014.

You are right, I'm thinking of Mississippi which is inside the perimeter.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 8):
Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
SJU: I think SJU will be announced before Nov19. They are just waiting on technology issues.

Does an airline need flag carrier status to fly to SJU? WN did not have flag carrier status when the extension came out and just yesterday got it. I agree it could come out before the extension.

Yes, but that's not so hard to get. The technology issue surrounds a unique tax for P.R.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 11):
You can probably tack on a few DAL flights, and maybe a STL flight or two.
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 35):
Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
ICT: 2x DEN, 2x MDW

I think they will have to do a ICT-DAL 2-3x with thru to HOU or ICT-DAL 2x with 1x to HOU
Quoting sdoyon (Reply 36):
I could see ICT start with about 7 flights:

2x - DAL [333mi]
2x - DEN [420mi]
1x - MDW [589mi]
1x - HOU [565mi]
1x - LAS or PHX [986/870mi]

I have three reasons why they will not go in there with so many flights:
1) ICT is paying a subsidy to FL/WN and they do not have the money to underwrite so many flights.
2) WN is fleet neutral and it would take way more planes to provide more than 4 RTs per day. Where are they coming from?
3) If the market is so great to justify all these flights, why is there a subsidy to FL and previously to F9? See #1.

I say 4rts. DEN is definite because we know F9 left under a subsidy deal, so they must have known WN would add DEN. The only question is whether it is 2rts to MDW or 2 rts to DAL. I think given the perimeter rule at DAL, it should be MDW.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23295 posts, RR: 20
Reply 43, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5684 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 42):
3) If the market is so great to justify all these flights, why is there a subsidy to FL and previously to F9? See #1.

ATL is farther away and likely a smaller local market than either Chicago or Dallas. Putting DEN aside for a moment, a schedule of 2x MDW 1x DAL (or 2x DAL 1x MDW) would require much less subsidy than 3x ATL.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 41):
Maybe someone else can highlight more into why they flew PVD-MCI.

Historically, MCI was much more plugged in to the west coast stations than was STL or really any city east of the Mississippi. Think of it as similar to HOU in terms of the connecting possibilities but 500 miles closer to MHT/PVD. As MDW grew, MCI's utility shrank, especially with MDW being both a stronger local market and closer to New England (and thus less out of the way for the majority of westbound connections).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4432 posts, RR: 6
Reply 44, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5663 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 43):
Historically, MCI was much more plugged in to the west coast stations than was STL or really any city east of the Mississippi. Think of it as similar to HOU in terms of the connecting possibilities but 500 miles closer to MHT/PVD. As MDW grew, MCI's utility shrank, especially with MDW being both a stronger local market and closer to New England (and thus less out of the way for the majority of westbound connections

That's what I figured - MCI had a lot of connectivity to the west before MDW was the size it is now. IIRC weren't their some issues (maybe there still is) with connections and having to change terminals and reclear security? IIRC the terminal(s) were set up poorly for connections.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 45, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5616 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 42):
Yes, but that's not so hard to get. The technology issue surrounds a unique tax for P.R.

I know its not hard to get, I was saying they didn't have it earlier this week now they do.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5595 times:

What are the chances of a BWI-MSP flight?

Currently DL flies 4x daily--3x mainline and 1x RJ--for $546 (price is pretty consistent from now until January).


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23295 posts, RR: 20
Reply 47, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5582 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 44):
weren't their some issues (maybe there still is) with connections and having to change terminals and reclear security?

You are barking up the correct tree: the issue is that MCI's security checkpoints serve just a handful of gates, and the gates are not all connected beyond security. Thus, many connecting passengers have to reclear security. My recollection - though it's been a while - is that WN has 7 gates and 2 checkpoints.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5542 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
RIC: Should have ATL 3x, but I bet it loses it. Prediction: MDW 3x, MCO 1x, TPA or FLL 1x, BNA 1x
ATL is closer than BNA or MDW, plus ATL would provide additional Florida and Texas service, and SFO service. Of the cities in the NE or northeast of ATL: I think BOS, LGA, BWI, DCA, PIT, RIC, ORF, RDU will have or keep ATL. PHL maybe.

[Edited 2012-10-25 13:15:09]

User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4615 posts, RR: 23
Reply 49, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5385 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 42):
Yes, but that's not so hard to get. The technology issue surrounds a unique tax for P.R.

We'll have the answer very soon.  


User currently offline737tanker From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 278 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5382 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 47):
You are barking up the correct tree: the issue is that MCI's security checkpoints serve just a handful of gates, and the gates are not all connected beyond security. Thus, many connecting passengers have to reclear security. My recollection - though it's been a while - is that WN has 7 gates and 2 checkpoints.

There has been some remodeling of the WN gates a MCI and they now have 9 gates and all use the same security. So if passengers have to change aircraft at MCI on WN they no longer have to reclear security.


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4432 posts, RR: 6
Reply 51, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5295 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 46):
What are the chances of a BWI-MSP flight?

Currently DL flies 4x daily--3x mainline and 1x RJ--for $546 (price is pretty consistent from now until January).

I don't see any reason BWI wouldn't work. BWI and LAS both seem like the next logical options for Southwest in Minneapolis. MSP has been a small but strong station for WN - they have done nothing but add since starting service in with MDW only in 2009. DEN, PHX, STL, and soon to be MCO, MKE, and MCI have all been added since.


Quoting 737tanker (Reply 50):
There has been some remodeling of the WN gates a MCI and they now have 9 gates and all use the same security. So if passengers have to change aircraft at MCI on WN they no longer have to reclear security

Thanks for the info! 9 gates is plenty for 64 flights (+2 FL flights to ATL), or at least that's what I came up with for MCI on the Nov. 4 schedule.

1x ABQ
3x BWI
10x MDW
10x DAL
5x DEN
1x FLL
2x IND
2x HOU
4x LAS
2x LAX
2x MKE
3x BNA
1x MSY
1x OAK
2x OKC
3x MCO
3x PHX
1x PDX
5x STL
1x SAN
1x SEA
1x TPA


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5592 posts, RR: 12
Reply 52, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5322 times:

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 50):
There has been some remodeling of the WN gates a MCI and they now have 9 gate's and all use the same security. So if passengers have to change aircraft at MCI on WN they no longer have to reclear security.

Hey that's great to hear. Thanks for sharing that with us. I'll have to take a look at the terminal map and see how they did it. I assume WN is now the cx with the most single-security gates at the airport?

With 9 gates, WN certainly does have lots of room for expansion there - 30 or 40 more flights should be easily possible.

bb


User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 53, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5251 times:

What else could feasibly be added from MSY? When the March schedule rolls around, the combined FL/WN operation will be up to 57 flights a day...not far behind MCI even. Right now WN and FL have 6 gates at their disposal on B, so they could realistically get up to 60 or maybe a few more before space becomes an issue. There might be another unused gate that could be added, not sure. If they added any INTL those would have to fly out of Concourse C and there's a ton of room over there.

4X ATL (FL)
3X BWI
2X BHM
2X MDW
8X DAL
2X DEN
3X FLL
10X HOU
1X MCI
1X EYW
2X LAS
1X LAX
1X MKE
4X BNA
1X EWR
4X MCO (+1 FL)
1X PHX
2X STL
4X TPA

My wish list...in no particular order: JAX, CUN, SJU, RDU, PIT, SAN, AUS or SAT.


User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2361 posts, RR: 3
Reply 54, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5265 times:

Isnt STL-ECP coming back next summer? Glad to see STL built into a top 10 station!

User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Reply 55, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5069 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
ICT: 2x DEN, 2x MDW
Quoting sdoyon (Reply 36):
2x - DAL [333mi]
2x - DEN [420mi]
1x - MDW [589mi]
1x - HOU [565mi]
1x - LAS or PHX [986/870mi]

I like these suggestions from ICT, although I wonder about the following:

2x - DAL
2x - HOU
1x - DEN
1x - LAS (although isn't G4 in the picture?)
1x - MCI, thru to MDW and v.v.

Don't people from ICT travel to/from MCI frequently enough to warrant a flight? Also, wouldn't more service to HOU provide better connections to cities in Texas and the South, not to mention the general popularity of HOU? OKC and TUL both have plentiful service to HOU (more than 2x a day, even with UA).


User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4924 times:

I think the summer flying you will see ICT and GRR added to the WN system.
ICT with 5 flts total. 2 STL, 2 DAL, 1 DEN.
One A/C used for the new service with the A/C flow .
ICT-DAL-ICT-STL-ICT-DEN-ICT-DAL-ICT-STL-ICT.
GRR with 6 flts total. 2 STL, 2 BWI, 1 MCO , 1 TPA.
With 2 A/C used for this new service with the A/C flows.
GRR-STL-GRR-MCO-GRR-BWI-GRR.
GRR-BWI-GRR-TPA-GRR-STL-GRR.
Wnfg 



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4432 posts, RR: 6
Reply 57, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4893 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 54):
Isnt STL-ECP coming back next summer? Glad to see STL built into a top 10 station!

Service returns March 9.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 53):
My wish list...in no particular order: JAX, CUN, SJU, RDU, PIT, SAN, AUS or SAT.

I believe from MSY SAN is the top market in that list, followed by PIT. I would think CUN would be decent sized as well but I'm not sure on that one.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 55):
Don't people from ICT travel to/from MCI frequently enough to warrant a flight?

Awfully short. ICT-MCI is 186 miles, and it's driveable in about three hours. IIRC WN flew TUL-MCI until recently and that route is about 40 miles longer. The O&D market appears to be non-existant for obvious reasons.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 55):
Also, wouldn't more service to HOU provide better connections to cities in Texas and the South, not to mention the general popularity of HOU?

DAL actually offers more connections than HOU as far as Texas goes. HOU does not have service to AMA or LBB (very small markets from ICT I'm sure) like DAL does, however HOU offers CRP (DAL doesn't). In the south in general, HOU of course can offer connections to places like MCO, TPA, ATL, etc. but the only stations HOU offers that DEN or MDW don't are ECP, HRL, LBB, ELP and MAF (DAL of course hits all of these except ECP). DEN covers every station west of Texas except for BUR which is being discontinued.

Looks like the top markets out of ICT are:
ATL (FL)
LAS (G4)
DEN (UA)
SEA
LAX
ORD (AA, UA)
PHX


User currently offlinecountrymalenc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 58, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4588 times:

When the announcement of WN taking over CLT in April 2013 I am completely surprised these was not a CLT STL. I realize US Airways has that market but US Airways has no connections past STL other than PHX. As MDW gets more flights I am sure it is coming to a point where MDW is overcrowded. MDW seems to get more weather during the storm season due to rains and come this winter the snow is going to really impact MDW flights.

User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4615 posts, RR: 23
Reply 59, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4553 times:

Quoting countrymalenc (Reply 58):
When the announcement of WN taking over CLT in April 2013 I am completely surprised these was not a CLT STL. I realize US Airways has that market but US Airways has no connections past STL other than PHX. As MDW gets more flights I am sure it is coming to a point where MDW is overcrowded. MDW seems to get more weather during the storm season due to rains and come this winter the snow is going to really impact MDW flights.

Give it time. This was a push to get these cities over into the WN network. Not every logical connection will be done on day one. DEN started out with 3 or 4 cities and look what happened to it. Not saying CLT will even get close, but it is just a start for them over there.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23295 posts, RR: 20
Reply 60, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4472 times:

Quoting countrymalenc (Reply 58):
MDW seems to get more weather during the storm season due to rains and come this winter the snow is going to really impact MDW flights.

Rain isn't that disruptive at MDW because the terminal is such that the airfield can handle every flight that there is a gate for. Snow can be disruptive but only if it comes so quickly that it disrupts runway cleaning operations. Unlike at STL, ice is rare at MDW.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5592 posts, RR: 12
Reply 61, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4452 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 53):
My wish list...in no particular order: JAX, CUN, SJU, RDU, PIT, SAN, AND CURRENT: Austin - Bergstrom International (AFB) (AUS / KBSM), USA - Texas">AUS or SAT.
Quoting iowaman (Reply 57):
I believe from MSY SAN is the top market in that list, followed by PIT. I would think CUN would be decent sized as well but I'm not sure on that one.

Without looking up all the numbers, I would agree that SAN probably is the largest of those destinations listed. AND I would certainly Luv to see WN start MSY-SAN again -- it's WN's only remaining former market served from SAN that hasn't yet been returned.

But as I've reported before, the average PDEW for the last year in that market has been about 115. Considering the "growth" mode (or lack thereof) that WN is currently in, unfortunately I don't think it, or any of the other smaller markets, are going to happen any time soon.

bb


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 62, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4428 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 38):
I'd be mildly surprised if it's that aggressive in the beginning. It takes a several million dollar subsidy just to maintain the 3x daily ICT-ATL flights. A MDW-ICT-DAL-HOU routing would be nice as you stated though.

That is a good point.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 63, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4008 times:

I thought I would revive this thread as we are just about a week away. Are there any new developments?

There are 5 more domestic cities FL serves as FL only.... GRR, ICT, MEM, PNS and RIC. My personal opinion is we will see 2 or 3 more cities converted, some more SJU flying and some other conversions in shared cities.

Something interesting to note, this is the last schedule extension before 717 retirements begin.

What do you think?

[Edited 2012-11-11 14:35:05]


"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1619 posts, RR: 1
Reply 64, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4016 times:

Quoting iowaman (Thread starter):
PNS-HOU, BWI, and/or BNA
Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
PNS: Probably high on the list. I think service will be scant. HOU 2x, FLL 1x, BWI 2x

Nice, bring it on WN.

I will say that BNA is the only one without (near) non-stop competition. UA to IAH, IAD; US to DCA; and AA to MIA. UA seasonal/Saturday only to ORD.

I'd like to see WN to MSY and BHM from here, though I know they are trimming the shorter flights. There's no real reason other than I'd fly those routes.

M


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 65, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4011 times:

I think we will see GRR, ICT and maybe PNS or MEM.

I have a feeling WN intends on keeping RIC-ATL so I think they may wait on RIC until codeshare is in place early next year. PNS and MEM may or may not keep ATL so they may transfer before RIC.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 66, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4031 times:

I think ATL-SAN will come online.

MEM, RIC, GRR, ICT will be switched to WN.

MEM-MDW, BWI, ATL, HOU, DEN.
RIC-MCO, MDW
GRR-DEN, BWI
ICT-DAL, DEN, MDW



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 67, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4021 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 66):
MEM-MDW, BWI, ATL, HOU, DEN.
RIC-MCO, MDW
GRR-DEN, BWI
ICT-DAL, DEN, MDW

I agree except no MEM-ATL, GRR gets Florida and possibly no DEN. I also don't think RIC will be converted with this release but if it does I agree with what you say except I would add ATL.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3980 times:

Don't forget, the powers to be keep alluding to a codeshare... I think all domestic stations will be converted or co-branded at the very least and additional international routes will be applied for/announced. Now that all of the work groups have SLI agreements in place, former FL employees will be working WN flights where WN previously had no employees. In my opinion, the ground operatins SLI was one of the biggest hurdles remaining in terms of converting cities to WN.


My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4432 posts, RR: 6
Reply 69, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3980 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 63):
I thought I would revive this thread as we are just about a week away. Are there any new developments?

If my math is correct, WN ran about an 80% load-factor on the single daily DEN flight in September. They enplanned 3,353 passengers out of 4,200 available seats (that is assuming 140 seats an aircraft [some -700's are 137 seats and some are 143]).

Some interesting articles pertaining to WN/FL cities:

GRR:

Federal data released last week show Ford Airport is the 16th costliest among the nation's top 100 hubs, based on passenger traffic, with an average domestic fare of $447.

...

Still, Ford Airport is "waiting for Southwest to change over to their product," Johnson said.

"We hope to see that next year sometime," he said. "Once we get them established in our market, people know who they are and they’re here, and they give us access to their network that connects to a majority of their market, then I think you’ll starting to see fares come down here a bit."


http://www.mlive.com/business/west-m...ford_airports_deputy_director.html

FNT has the lowest airfares in the state of Michigan, but they are on the rise:

The increased airfare is due to AirTran Airlines' sale to Southwest Airlines, said Pat Corfman, spokeswoman for Bishop.

Southwest still has low air fares, but it has a different cost structure, resulting in the increase, she said, adding that airlines have raised prices several times because of fuel costs.


http://www.mlive.com/business/mid-mi...ishop_airport_airfare_continu.html

Also there is a ceremony in the morning for the completed airport expansion:

The construction project included a larger Transportation Security Administration area, which was opened in October.

It also added 47,000 square-feet of terminal space, four gates and doubled the width of the corridor linking two sections of the airport.


http://www.mlive.com/business/mid-mi...ishop_airport_to_hold_dedicat.html


User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3935 times:

I think there may be some shuffling of LGA markets. MKE probably reduced to 2.0 or 1.0 with those slots going to BNA or HOU.

I'm hoping to see HOU-BOS and return of HOU-SEA and PDX-AUS. DEN-CLE may happen now that F9 is adding CLE.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3946 times:

Could we possibly see either:

STL-PVD/ISP
MSY-PVD/ISP

STL/MSY to Providence could definitely work, and as most people who know me on here knows, I'm always gonna lobby for ISP!


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 72, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3939 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 71):
Could we possibly see either:

I think they will leave STL to LGA, EWR and BOS in those markets. WN is adding MSY-EWR so not sure about ISP-MSY and I doubt PVD-MSY.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 70):
I think there may be some shuffling of LGA markets. MKE probably reduced to 2.0 or 1.0 with those slots going to BNA or HOU.

BNA is already being added. Even though I pray BWI will be added back (I know it won't), I think HOU will be next if they add a new destination.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4432 posts, RR: 6
Reply 73, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3920 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 72):
o not sure about ISP-MSY and I doubt PVD-MSY.

I'd be very surprised to see anything new out of ISP. They've lost several key routes over the past few years including MDW, LAS, and BNA. In fact, the only thing other than Florida left out of ISP is BWI. Loads are not stellar and neither are yields out of ISP.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 70):
I think there may be some shuffling of LGA markets. MKE probably reduced to 2.0 or 1.0 with those slots going to BNA or HOU.

Seems reasonable. It's nice to see LGA connected to the WN network so well now, along with BOS.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 70):
I'm hoping to see HOU-BOS and return of HOU-SEA and PDX-AUS. DEN-CLE may happen now that F9 is adding CLE.

These seem reasonable as well. CLE has been cut back substantially by Southwest so if WN launches DEN-CLE that could be seen as a F9 response for sure.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 74, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3893 times:

Quoting iowaman (Thread starter):
RSW-FNT (FL)

I'm sorry, I just caught this. WN will be operating this seasonaly says FNT Airport.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days ago) and read 3900 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 73):

I'm not saying your wrnog, but I believe MDW was actually just moved over to LGA, they didn't cut it because it did poorly.
Also, based on personal experience, loads aren't that bad. Most of the flights I've been on in/out of ISP have been at least 80% full. But then again, that's just the flights I've been on.

Either way, I know it's a long shot, but ISP is on the rise. US Airways has increased ISP service and rumors have been circulating that ISP is on the list of potential destinations from SJU when they get it up and running (it's not on the top of the list, but it's ON the list at least).

[Edited 2012-11-15 18:20:32]

User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 76, posted (2 years 1 month 11 hours ago) and read 3859 times:

I wonder if we'll start to see more growth out of BWI. The A/B-C connector should be completed by May 2013, giving access for WN growth in Concourse C. A/B is getting crowded...April will see about 220 flights a day on WN/FL while June will see about 230.

Has anyone heard plans for C? Currently C has about 20 flights between AA/MQ/NK; there is definitely room for WN/FL to grow.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 77, posted (2 years 1 month 11 hours ago) and read 3930 times:

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 76):
Has anyone heard plans for C? Currently C has about 20 flights between AA/MQ/NK; there is definitely room for WN/FL to grow.

I have heard 2 specific things. WN will get 2 gates on C; from the Baltimore sun. That to me seems like why would WN agree (as the largest arrier) to all of this for 2 gates. I have also heard that WN would get the whole concourse from multiple a.neters. That is just what I heard.

I do know that a few (I don't know how many) gates on C will be International specifically for FL.

I was in BWI last weekend and I can tell you the progress is amazing! And, that A/B is still very crowded, C is highly needed.

Is the 230 WN+FL or just WN? And, can AA and NK fit on D?



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (2 years 1 month 11 hours ago) and read 3938 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 77):
Is the 230 WN+FL or just WN? And, can AA and NK fit on D?

Schedule from 4/8/13: 181 WN / 40 FL
Schedule from 5/20/13: 191 WN / 40 FL

D might be iffy...I know part of it is walled off (not sure which section); NK could definitely be moved to D, AA/MQ not sure.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 77):
I do know that a few (I don't know how many) gates on C will be International specifically for FL.

Interesting! I was wondering if there were going to try and streamline FL international ops...it's a hike from E to A/B! Where did you hear this if you don't mind me asking?


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 79, posted (2 years 1 month 8 hours ago) and read 3890 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 71):
I'm always gonna lobby for ISP!

What about ISP-BOS? I know it'd be unconventional, but demand could possibly come from Long Island residents who work in BOS or VFR or leisure. BOS based pax might not use it as a way to reach NY, but it'd help make WN's presence in BOS slightly better and provide feed for BOS routes. It's pretty much the only route to a major market, that wouldn't self compete with any WN route from LGA also.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 80, posted (2 years 1 month 8 hours ago) and read 3894 times:

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 78):
D might be iffy...I know part of it is walled off

Does anyone know why its walled off and if it will be taken down, when. Thanks!

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 78):
Where did you hear this if you don't mind me asking?

Either directly from BWI or the Baltimore Sun. Not sure which.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (2 years 1 month 8 hours ago) and read 3904 times:

Well with this up coming schedule release and with all the hype of SJU over the rumor mill is xtra slow on this one.
I think now we may see just seasonal flying return for the summer time on both FL and WN.
I also think the next big schedule shift from FL to WN will happen in the Fall once WN starts to move the FL 717's off to DL.
With B6 adding SEA-ANC service I hope this dose not play into another missed opportunity for WN to jump into like Hawaii has become.
see ya Monday Wnfg 

[Edited 2012-11-17 11:26:45]

[Edited 2012-11-17 11:29:07]


my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4432 posts, RR: 6
Reply 82, posted (2 years 1 month 7 hours ago) and read 3897 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 76):
I wonder if we'll start to see more growth out of BWI.

I think it's likely we will. I expect GRR to retain BWI service once it's switched over to WN metal and possibly MEM-BWI and PNS-BWI added. I also expect MDW to continue to be a winner in this merger as ICT, MEM, RIC and possibly others have a good shot at getting MDW service in my opinion. TUL also has an announcement of a new city on Monday and I feel it's likely either TUL-BWI or TUL-MDW will be launched, both of which are already flown out of OKC.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 75):
but I believe MDW was actually just moved over to LGA, they didn't cut it because it did poorly.
Also, based on personal experience, loads aren't that bad. Most of the flights I've been on in/out of ISP have been at least 80% full. But then again, that's just the flights I've been on.

If WN wanted to though there is no reason they couldn't of kept ISP in addtion to LGA from MDW. LGA is going from 5x to 6x MDW so it's a relatively small change. They've co-existed from summer of 2009 to summer of 2012.

Flightaware shows load-factors for a 12-month time frame, although I wouldn't use them for precise numbers. They do seem to be relatively close to what the carrier is filling though, and the loads appear decent except for BWI which is a little low but tolerable due to the short distance.

ISP-FLL 82%
ISP-PBI 82%
ISP-MCO 76%
ISP-TPA 75%
ISP-BWI 60%

Cut routes:
ISP-LAS 83%
ISP-MDW 69%

Yield wise ISP did worse than other established WN stations on similar distances out of MDW, but LAS appears to have done better than other stations. I'm guessing there are a lot more people wanting to go west coast - PVD, PHL, LGA etc and not west coast - ISP. I suspect ISP has a disproportinate amount of locals that use the airport. This may explain why WN was more apt to pull LAS from ISP.

City pair Average Revenue/Flight
ISP-MDW $11,256
PVD-MDW $13,438
MHT-MDW $15,295
PHL-MDW $15,146
LGA-MDW $15,998

PVD-LAS $13,859 (this is incredibly poor for such a long stage length, wouldn't be surprised to see some of these long haul LAS flights swapped out for DEN or cut all together)
PHL-LAS $16,754
BDL-LAS $1,803
ISP-LAS $17,676
ALB-LAS $17,878

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 79):
BOS based pax might not use it as a way to reach NY, but it'd help make WN's presence in BOS slightly better and provide feed for BOS routes

I'd be very, very surprised to see WN launch ISP-BOS. It's a cool idea though. Maybe B6 could make a go with E190's BOS-ISP? Doubt they have much interest in ISP though.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 74):
I'm sorry, I just caught this. WN will be operating this seasonaly says FNT Airport.

Thanks for catching that. It also appears WN metal will be operating CLE-RSW at some point soon - IIRC this is the first time WN metal has flown this.


User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 83, posted (2 years 1 month 7 hours ago) and read 3893 times:

WN did fly ISP-PVD at one point.


My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (2 years 1 month 6 hours ago) and read 3910 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 80):
Does anyone know why its walled off and if it will be taken down, when. Thanks!

BTW it's gates D30-35, I think they were blocked off because the terminal didn't have enough tenants, but I could be wrong. These 6 gates are part of the hammerhead; if you're walking away from security, they're on the left when you reach the hammerhead.

These may be ground-level regional gates--unclear. If they are, not sure that AA/MQ/NK would want them, which would cause WN/FL to share Concourse C.

After the A/B-C connector is finished, I see AA/MQ with 3 gates, NK with 2-3, and WN/FL with 8-9.


User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 85, posted (2 years 1 month 6 hours ago) and read 3904 times:

Could we see an expansion of ATL service on WN, possibly to EWR/PHL, in addition to the continuing transition of FL stations to WN?

User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 86, posted (2 years 1 month 6 hours ago) and read 3906 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 85):

Could we see an expansion of ATL service on WN, possibly to EWR/PHL, in addition to the continuing transition of FL stations to WN?

ATL expansion and conversion will probably not restart until codeshare. We will probably see a few stations converted (2-3). We will know about any conversions tomorrow when AirTran extends its schedule.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5592 posts, RR: 12
Reply 87, posted (2 years 1 month 6 hours ago) and read 3895 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 85):
Could we see an expansion of ATL service on WN, possibly to EWR/PHL, in addition to the continuing transition of FL stations to WN?
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 86):
We will probably see a few stations converted (2-3). We will know about any conversions tomorrow when AirTran extends its schedule.

And another possibility has been mentioned as well:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 66):
I think ATL-SAN will come online.

(Please note that I did not say this, but I sure like the idea...)  

  

bb


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (2 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 3897 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 85):
Could we see an expansion of ATL service on WN, possibly to EWR/PHL, in addition to the continuing transition of FL stations to WN?

Won't WN need slots for EWR-ATL? I see them not taking away service from the other EWR routes for it, since WN already has reallocated BWI routes for those routes. My guess is pax to or from Northern NJ will have to use LGA or PHL to reach ATL, or once BNA-ATL starts, can do EWR-BNA-ATL.


User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 89, posted (2 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 3900 times:

It would be nice if they added CLT-ATL and CLT-DEN

User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (2 years 1 month 4 hours ago) and read 3898 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 88):
Won't WN need slots for EWR-ATL? I see them not taking away service from the other EWR routes for it, since WN already has reallocated BWI routes for those routes. My guess is pax to or from Northern NJ will have to use LGA or PHL to reach ATL, or once BNA-ATL starts, can do EWR-BNA-ATL.

I was not aware that EWR was slot controlled. In that case I agree with you that they probably won't take away or reduce any of their destinations from EWR just to add ATL service. Are you fairly certain than WN will start BNA-ATL? It doesn't seem like it would be particularly high-yielding.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23295 posts, RR: 20
Reply 91, posted (2 years 1 month 3 hours ago) and read 3896 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 90):
Are you fairly certain than WN will start BNA-ATL? It doesn't seem like it would be particularly high-yielding.

What makes you say that? Certainly, WN doesn't have trouble with yields on routes of similar length elsewhere in the system (BNA/MDW-STL or BWI-PIT, for instance).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 92, posted (2 years 1 month ago) and read 3893 times:

With TUL airport talking about new service on monday I can see WN add BWI service.
IF this is a 100% new flying with a 800 may be it can end up as a one stop SJU flight.
Only if they take over more FL SJU service with WN metal.
Now with no rumors of any kind this is just 100% arm chair planning on my part.
I would run the new AC flow TUL-BWI-SJU-BWI-TUL.
wnfg  



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3890 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 92):

Why would TUL-BWI be on an -800 and why would it be a through flight to SJU? Is there a large PR population to warrant a through flight from TUL to SJU? It's a whole new schedule, I'd imagine the existing SJU flights will be realigned with better connecting times and also other "thru" flights.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 94, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3900 times:

So it looks like the FL schedule is up. Does anyone know how the scheduling between WN/FL works? If something is loaded into the FL schedule on Sunday (BWI-SJU, for instance), does that mean it is not part of the WN schedule? I thought I remember someone saying that FL updated it's bookings on Sunday with some "dummy" routes that would be transfered to WN the next day, but I could totally be making that up. Can anyone clear this up for me?

[Edited 2012-11-18 06:19:26]

User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 95, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3898 times:

AS of right now, LGA-ATL goes down from 8 to 6 flights with the 2 flights disappearing (probably going to WN).

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 94):
I thought I remember someone saying that FL updated it's bookings on Sunday with some "dummy" routes that would be transfered to WN the next day, but I could totally be making that up. Can anyone clear this up for me?

The AirTran schedule is not always reliable.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 96, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3907 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 95):
AS of right now, LGA-ATL goes down from 8 to 6 flights with the 2 flights disappearing (probably going to WN).

I saw this as well. Wonder where they'll go. Looking at what EWR has that LGA doesn't:

AUS - outside the 1,500 mi perimeter
HOU
MSY
PHX - outside the 1,500 mi perimeter.

I'm surprised that LGA-CAK maintains 3x through August on weekdays, I would have expected that to go down to 1-2x, freeing up a few more slots for the places mentioned above and others, such as MCI.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 97, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3905 times:

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 96):
I saw this as well. Wonder where they'll go. Looking at what EWR has that LGA doesn't:

Unless WN is going to operate 2 LGA-ATL flights, similar to what they are doing on ATL-MCO (just to get into the the market and get known, which is very smart) my guess is HOU will be added.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 98, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3906 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 97):
Unless WN is going to operate 2 LGA-ATL flights, similar to what they are doing on ATL-MCO (just to get into the the market and get known, which is very smart) my guess is HOU will be added.

Could be, but I was pretty sure they had delayed implementing more XXX-ATL flying on WN until the codeshare comes online; leaving ATL p2p traffic to FL. 2x HOU is my top pick, but hey, I like to be surprised!


User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 99, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3922 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 93):

I was just making up a Aircraft flow if WN used a new 800 for a New TUL-BWI service.
With that I just figured may be WN could add 2 new markets with one new aircraft by tagging on BWI-SJU turn.
Now would having a thru flight go thru BWI be that bad? No it would not.
Look at B6 they connect people thru JFK and BOS so connecting via BWI is on the same playing field.
I'm just guessing on new TUL-BWI service. I really have no clue on what city getting new service to TUL.
It could be anything from BWI to MDW,MCO or ATL.
I guess we will know Monday.
wnfg 



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 100, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3918 times:

Airtran.com if you look up SNA-SJD it getting another flight.
Also looking up the flight times for FL service SNA-MEX,LAS and SFO its looking like SNA may have a FL RON.
Glad to see my Old airport getting another flight.
Question is this a seasonal summer demand or year round addition?
Looking up other markets there looks to be a big shift in FL flight times.
Anyone else notice any other new additions or markets for FL?
wnfg 



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently onlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2998 posts, RR: 31
Reply 101, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3940 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 100):
Anyone else notice any other new additions or markets for FL?

MKE-FLL appears to be returning from WN to FL as of 6/2.

Haven't noticed anything especially noteworthy in the current summer FL schedule so far. BWI-BOS going down to 4x on FL is about as dramatic as I've seen.


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 102, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4070 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 90):
Are you fairly certain than WN will start BNA-ATL? It doesn't seem like it would be particularly high-yielding.

After furthing looking in: DL n/s fares seem high (over $600 r/t booked months advance), so competition and stimulation can lower fares, and it would be a focus city-focus city type route by WN. But the route seems driveable as well which might hurt the sale of even $150 r/t WGA fares. My guess is they fly it to try build up ATL, while gauging how it does and DL's response, over some other (better) routes that could have been done.

Such as rather than stimulating BNA-ATL, which has to compete with drive and DL, maybe it could have tried BNA-IAD. UA is there, but likely would be less defensive. Assuming WN wants to do a 3 airport strategy for DC, something like IAD-BNA would permit south/west type flow from IAD, and for BNA, provide access to the another NE market, having good access to Northern VA, than only from BWI. BNA-SFO, another one though long, is just 100 miles more than MKE-SFO, which WN inherited from FL and decided to fly on WN metal.

[Edited 2012-11-18 14:32:06]

User currently offlinekkephart13 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 103, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4061 times:

New (or returning) service on the FL end that ive noticed...

PHL - PBI (Eff. 4-17-13)
PHL - RSW (Eff. 4-17-13)
BOS - MKE (Eff. 4-17-13)
MDW - FLL (Eff 4-17-13)
BUF - PBI (Eff 4-17-13)
SNA - SJD (2X Daily)


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 104, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4080 times:

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 103):
PHL - PBI (Eff. 4-17-13)
PHL - RSW (Eff. 4-17-13)
BOS - MKE (Eff. 4-17-13)
MDW - FLL (Eff 4-17-13)
BUF - PBI (Eff 4-17-13)
SNA - SJD (2X Daily)

PHL-PBI, MDW-FLL, BOS-MKE and PHL-RSW begins 4/14, the SNA-SJD does not go double daily until June 2 and I don't see BUF-PBI in the schedule at all.

You realize this schedule extension is for June 1, the 4/14 one was last time.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23295 posts, RR: 20
Reply 105, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4033 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 102):
But the route seems driveable as well which might hurt the sale of even $150 r/t WGA fares.

WGA wouldn't be $150. On BNA-STL nonstop, which is a little bit longer (and has no competition), WGA is typically $90 or $100, anytime is $195 and Business Select is $211.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 102):
maybe it could have tried BNA-IAD.

If IAD wasn't such a total dog for WN, I could surely see BNA-IAD (along with HOU-IAD, MCO-IAD, STL-IAD, etc.). Unfortunately, IAD is a niche station.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4432 posts, RR: 6
Reply 106, posted (2 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4023 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Any one know what time the schedules are to be released tomorrow??

User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 107, posted (2 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4034 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 106):

I think around 6am central (Herb) time.
Hopefully some good new comes with this news and not just another wave of market deletions.
wnfg  



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 108, posted (2 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4030 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 107):

I'm confident WN is going to add TUL-BWI


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 109, posted (2 years 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4165 times:

Schedule is out. LGA-HOU twice daily and TUL-MDW have been added.

ICT being converted, so far I see 2x DAL, 2xMDW and 1x LAS. Also being converted, BWI-SJU.

[Edited 2012-11-19 04:28:45]


"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlinedbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 908 posts, RR: 1
Reply 110, posted (2 years 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4076 times:

Still nothing new for DSM. This schedule goes thru Aug 9 at which point DSM will be over 10 months of just two daily flights to MDW.

User currently offlineCGKings317 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 306 posts, RR: 6
Reply 111, posted (2 years 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4054 times:
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Quoting airliner371 (Reply 109):
Schedule is out.

Is there a link to the new schedule or table signifying changes?

~CGKings317  



I love ✈ & volcanoes but the 2 of them dont get along, just ask KLM867 & PH-BFC
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 112, posted (2 years 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4085 times:

Quoting CGKings317 (Reply 111):
Is there a link to the new schedule or table signifying changes?

Southwest.com  . Press release isn't out yet.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 113, posted (2 years 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4055 times:

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 110):

Still better than nothing


User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 114, posted (2 years 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4108 times:

Poor BHM loses two more spokes: JAX and MSY.

Sad to see BHM-MSY go from a historical standpoint, but really, the route is redundant since ATL/FL came into the picture. It's an easy 5 hour drive up I-59, or a cheap ($43 walk up fare) ride on Amtrak.

In the recent past BHM has lost service to SDF and BNA as well. I wonder how much more they can realistically cut?

On the semi positive side for us MSY folks, it looks like a 3rd MDW-MSY is being added, so overall, the summer schedule is very solid, especially for a period of slower tourism in New Orleans.


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1972 posts, RR: 1
Reply 115, posted (2 years 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4040 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 109):
TUL-MDW have been added.

That's what I was guessing...makes perfect sense...


User currently offlineCGKings317 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 306 posts, RR: 6
Reply 116, posted (2 years 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4089 times:
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Looks like WN is resuming seasonal PDX-AUS for the summer. No idea if it has similar effective/discontinue dates as like last summer.

~CGKings317  



I love ✈ & volcanoes but the 2 of them dont get along, just ask KLM867 & PH-BFC
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4432 posts, RR: 6
Reply 117, posted (2 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4061 times:
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Well, not as exciting as I was hoping for but still some stuff here and there.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 109):
Schedule is out. LGA-HOU twice daily and TUL-MDW have been added.

ICT being converted, so far I see 2x DAL, 2xMDW and 1x LAS. Also being converted, BWI-SJU.

Nice adds! It looks like ICT will be the only conversion city this round. Interesting to see ICT-LAS added instead of ICT-DEN.

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 110):
Still nothing new for DSM. This schedule goes thru Aug 9 at which point DSM will be over 10 months of just two daily flights to MDW.

Darn!

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 114):
Poor BHM loses two more spokes: JAX and MSY.

Sad to see BHM-MSY go from a historical standpoint, but really, the route is redundant since ATL/FL came into the picture. It's an easy 5 hour drive up I-59, or a cheap ($43 walk up fare) ride on Amtrak.

In the recent past BHM has lost service to SDF and BNA as well. I wonder how much more they can realistically cut?

Ouch. This leaves BHM with LAS, DAL, HOU, MCO, TPA, BWI, STL, and MDW. Still not too bad.

Quoting CGKings317 (Reply 116):
Looks like WN is resuming seasonal PDX-AUS for the summer. No idea if it has similar effective/discontinue dates as like last summer.

Nice!


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23295 posts, RR: 20
Reply 118, posted (2 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4032 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 117):
Ouch. This leaves BHM with LAS, DAL, HOU, MCO, TPA, BWI, STL, and MDW. Still not too bad.

My impression of BHM-DAL is that it was often filled with BNA-DAL thrus (I have been on multiple flights with fewer than 30 passengers getting on/off in BHM, and some of those are no doubt making connections in DAL). I expect BHM-DAL will see some reductions come 2014, though I don't know that it will be cut altogether.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 119, posted (2 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4022 times:

MHT is getting their seasonal LAS flight back, which I expected. Wish they'd keep it year-round.

User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1972 posts, RR: 1
Reply 120, posted (2 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4038 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 117):
Interesting to see ICT-LAS

This route has been a G4 staple for almost a decade...I'm betting Allegiant canx's the route within 6-8 months after WN initiates the route.


User currently onlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3826 posts, RR: 2
Reply 121, posted (2 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4034 times:

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 120):
Quoting iowaman (Reply 117):
Interesting to see ICT-LAS

This route has been a G4 staple for almost a decade...I'm betting Allegiant canx's the route within 6-8 months after WN initiates the route.

Don't count them out: G4 has stuck around post-WN GSP far longer than most here anticipated. And G4's vacation package deals, LAS in particular, are superior to WN's.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (2 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4130 times:

From Southwest:
Quote:
As we continue to integrate AirTran operations into Southwest Airlines, starting June 2, 2013 we will convert service at Wichita, Kansas from AirTran to Southwest. At Wichita’s Mid-Continent airport, we will substitute three AirTran nonstop flights between Wichita and Atlanta with two Southwest nonstops between Wichita and both Dallas/Love and Chicago/Midway, and daily Southwest nonstop service between Wichita and Las Vegas. This will give Southwest five daily departures, with direct and connecting service to another 70 Southwest cities across America. Mid-Continent Airport’s slogan is “Convenient. Friendly. Affordable.” That sounds just like Southwest Airlines!

Integration between Southwest and AirTran also continues in the Caribbean! On the same day next June we will convert existing AirTran nonstop service between Baltimore/Washington and beautiful San Juan, Puerto Rico to Southwest Airlines, and will add a fourth daily roundtrip between San Juan and Orlando. All of Southwest’s service to San Juan utilizes our amazing 737-800 complete with Boeing’s beautiful Sky Interior.

We’ve also made changes in many other Southwest markets. The biggest news is the addition of two daily nonstop roundtrips between Houston/Hobby and New York’s LaGuardia Airport! We’ve gotten lots of requests for this new market and we’re SUPER excited to add it to our route map. We will also add new nonstop service between Chicago/Midway and Tulsa, another market that has been requested for quite a while, especially since we added our service between Chicago/Midway and Oklahoma City a few months ago. Other nonstop markets that will seasonally return will be daily nonstops between Seattle and Atlanta, Nashville, Houston/Hobby, and Kansas City, between Austin and Portland OR, and between Las Vegas and Manchester. We will end Southwest nonstop service in five markets—Albuquerque-Tucson, Oakland-Reno, Little Rock-St. Louis, and between Birmingham and both Jacksonville and New Orleans. In addition, we’ll eliminate seasonal nonstops between Hartford and Ft. Myers, weekend-only nonstops in the Norfolk-Tampa Bay and Providence-Ft. Myers markets, and will seasonally shift Southwest nonstop service between Ft. Lauderdale and both Raleigh/Durham and Milwaukee to AirTran. Elsewhere across the network we’ll reduce frequency in 40 roundtrip markets and increase service in 49 others, winding up with an average of 3,382 departures each weekday—which represents an overall increase in roughly 18 midweek departures per day. As always, you can find schedules and fares at southwest.com.

On the AirTran network, even though we’re knee-deep in conversion to Southwest, we’re also making changes next summer. Besides the integration-related swaps detailed above, we’ll add a second daily nonstop roundtrip between John Wayne International Airport in Orange County and San Jose del Cabo, Mexico! Frequency on the Baltimore/Washington-Bermuda nonstops, which restart on May 16th four times weekly, will become daily. We’ll also introduce AirTran nonstop service between Tampa Bay and both Houston hobby and Raleigh/Durham, both of which will supplement continuing Southwest nonstop service in both markets. Just as we have on the Southwest network, we’ve adjusted frequencies in a number of AirTran markets, decreasing flights in roughly a dozen roundtrip markets while adding flights in 44 markets. Schedules and fares are available at airtran.com.


User currently offlineavi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 701 posts, RR: 0
Reply 123, posted (2 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4022 times:
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So is TPA losing SWA flights to HOU and RDU?


avi8
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 124, posted (2 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4086 times:

Thinning out some more short-haul routes:

ABQ-TUS: 321 miles
OAK-RNO: 181 miles
LIT-STL: 296 miles
BHM-JAX: 365 miles
BHM-MSY: 321 miles

[Edited 2012-11-19 07:26:38]

User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4615 posts, RR: 23
Reply 125, posted (2 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4029 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 121):
Don't count them out: G4 has stuck around post-WN GSP far longer than most here anticipated. And G4's vacation package deals, LAS in particular, are superior to WN's.

Its 50/50 on what G4 does. When WN launched OKC-LAS service, G4 ran like the wind. Of course OKC is a strong traditional WN city. We'll see how ICT works out.


User currently onlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2998 posts, RR: 31
Reply 126, posted (2 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4050 times:

Here's MKE for July 2013 vs 2012 for anyone who is interested. Several markets have one fewer frequency, but MSY is saying on through the summer, which it did not last year.

2012 … 2013 … Chg
5 …….. 5 …….. … …….. ATL
4 …….. 3 …….. -1 …….. BOS
3 …….. 3 …….. … …….. BWI
2 …….. 0 …….. -2 …….. CAK
4 …….. 4 …….. … …….. DCA
3 …….. 2 …….. -1 …….. DEN
2 …….. 0 …….. -2 …….. DSM
1 …….. 1 …….. … …….. FLL
5 …….. 4 …….. -1 …….. LAS
2 …….. 2 …….. … …….. LAX
5 …….. 4 …….. -1 …….. LGA
2 …….. 2 …….. … …….. MCI
5 …….. 4 …….. -1 …….. MCO
4 …….. 3 …….. -1 …….. MSP
0 …….. 1 ……. +1 …….. MSY
3 …….. 2 …….. -1 …….. PHX
1 …….. 1 …….. … …….. RSW
2 …….. 1 …….. -1 …….. SEA
2 …….. 2 …….. … …….. SFO
2 …….. 2 …….. … …….. STL
2 …….. 2 …….. … …….. TPA

59 ..... 48 ........-11


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4432 posts, RR: 6
Reply 127, posted (2 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4095 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Quoting sdoyon (Reply 122):
we’ll add a second daily nonstop roundtrip between John Wayne International Airport in Orange County and San Jose del Cabo, Mexico!

Made possible with additional slots at SNA.

Quoting avi8 (Reply 123):
So is TPA losing SWA flights to HOU and RDU?

It appears TPA-HOU is going from 4x to 3x and TPA-RDU from 3x to 2x on WN equip with FL picking up at least one TPA-HOU and RDU flight.

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 124):
Thinning out some more short-haul routes:

ABQ-TUS: 321 miles
OAK-RNO: 181 miles
LIT-STL: 296 miles
BHM-JAX: 365 miles
BHM-MSY: 321 miles

That's the first thing I thought of as well. Is there anything shorter than OAK-RNO currently?


User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3866 posts, RR: 34
Reply 128, posted (2 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4110 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 127):
Is there anything shorter than OAK-RNO currently?

AUS-HOU - 148 miles

Quoting CGKings317 (Reply 116):
Looks like WN is resuming seasonal PDX-AUS for the summer. No idea if it has similar effective/discontinue dates as like last summer.

It most likely will end in mid-August just like last year. School starts August 26, 2013 here.

LoneStarMike


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1972 posts, RR: 1
Reply 129, posted (2 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4054 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 121):
And G4's vacation package deals, LAS in particular, are superior to WN's.

Packages and whatnot aren't going to substitute for two free checked bags and no charges for carry-ons.


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1972 posts, RR: 1
Reply 130, posted (2 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4066 times:

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 124):
BHM-JAX: 365 miles

I know one flight does not a successful route make, but I flew this back in January, and it was PACKED...on a Saturday.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 125):
When WN launched OKC-LAS service, G4 ran like the wind.

So did US (well, they were still kinda of HP at the time)...


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23295 posts, RR: 20
Reply 131, posted (2 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4070 times:

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 124):
Thinning out some more short-haul routes:

   They are a little bit different from the last go-round, though, as with the arguable exception of STL-LIT, these are more p2p than hub routes, as IND-MDW and MCO-RSW were.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 132, posted (2 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4117 times:

RNO-OAK another victory heading to Alaska.
With WN back in SFO WN should have at least tried the SFO-RNO market .
BHM-JAX/MSY with WN finally in ATL the drawl of people making the trek to BHM for WN is dead now.
I can see BHM going down to 8 to 10 flts a day once the DAL WA restrictions go away mid 2014.
ABQ-TUS never been a strong market anyway.
With ATL service I see they have a late Originator early RON to and from LAS.
It leaves enough time to tag on a new market with that A/C unless its a ATL MX line.
I would use that idle A/C to test maybe a new market like ISP-ATL,MHT-ATL,BDL-ATL,ALB-ATL,ECP-ATL or if is a MX line just shift the MX line work to MCO and add another ATL-MCO flt.
wnfg 



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4432 posts, RR: 6
Reply 133, posted (2 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4133 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Updated FL/WN combo merger list. If anyone sees any errors or has any additions I missed please let me know. My goal is to make this a nice reference list as time goes on and as other discussions come up in other threads:

FL cities not part of the WN system and not announced yet (but will be at some point):

Domestic:
MEM
GRR
PNS
RIC

International:
AUA
BDA
CUN
MEX
MBJ
NAS
PUJ
SJD

New upcoming routes:
BNA-LGA (starts January 6)
MCI-MSP (starts February 14)
EYW-MSY (March 4)
EWR-AUS (March 9)
EWR-MSY (March 9)
EWR-BNA (March 9)
BKG-MDW (starts March 9, FL ends March 8)
BKG-DAL (starts March 9)
BKG-HOU (starts March 9, FL ends March 8)
BKG-MCO (Saturday only, starts March 9, FL ends March 8)
LGA-MKE (transferring from FL in March)
CMH-TPA (transferring from FL in March)
CLT-BWI, MDW, HOU, MCO (starts April 14, all FL routes from CLT end April 13)
ROC-BWI, MDW, MCO, TPA (starts April 14, all FL routes from ROC end April 13)
FNT-BWI, MCO, TPA (starts April 14, all FL routes from FNT end April 13)
PWM-BWI (starts April 14, FL ends April 13)
BOS-MCI (starts April 14)
HOU-PIT (starts April 14)
BWI-PUJ ( starts April 14 on FL equipment, pending government approval)
BWI-SJU (starts June 2, FL ends June 1)
LGA-HOU (starts June 2)
MDW-TUL (starts June 2)
ICT-DAL (starts June 2)
ICT-MDW (starts June 2)
ICT-LAS (starts June 2)

Additional frequencies to note effective June 2:

SNA-SJD (FL going from 1x daily to 2x daily)
BWI-BDA (FL going from 4x weekly in May to daily in June)
MCO-SJU (WN going from 3x to 4x daily)


Seasonal returns announced for Spring/Summer:

Spring starts:
SEA-BWI
CLE-LAS
MCI-OAK
SAN-STL
STL-ECP

June starts:
SEA-ATL
SEA-BNA
SEA-HOU
SEA-MCI
AUS-PDX
LAS-MHT

Seasonal cuts announced for next Spring/Summer:

Spring:
RSW-BNA
RSW-BOS
RSW-ISP
MCO-DAY
MCO-IND
PBI-PIT
PBI-PVD
TPA-GRR (FL)
RSW-DTW (FL)
RSW-FNT (FL)
RSW-GRR (FL)
RSW-CAK (FL)

Summer:
RSW-BDL (June 2)
TPA-ORF (June 2)
RSW-PVD (June 2)

Routes cut permanently:
EWR-BWI (ends March 8)
LGA-BWI (ends Jan. 5)
BKG-ATL (FL ends March 8)
BKG-BWI (FL ends March 8)
BOI-PDX (ends April 13)
BUR-DEN (ends April 13)
HOU-PHL (ends April 13)
ATL-FNT (FL ends April 13)
ATL-CLT (FL ends April 13)
ATL-ROC (FL ends April 13)

June 2 cuts:
ABQ-TUS
OAK-RNO
LIT-STL
BHM-JAX
BHM-MSY
ATL-ICT (FL ends June 1)

New FL flights to supplement WN flights:

Spring:
MCO-STL
MCO-MCI
BUF-TPA
MDW-FLL
MCO-MSY (March 4)

FL only routes that will again fly in the Spring:
BUF-FLL
MCO-MSP (transitioned to WN on Nov. 4 then goes back to FL)
PHL-PBI
PHL-RSW


Shifting from WN to FL seasonally (June 2):
FLL-RDU
FLL-MKE

Seasonal FL supplements to WN flights:

Spring:
BOS-MKE
TPA-MDW
TPA-CMH

Summer (June 2):
TPA-HOU
TPA-RDU









[Edited 2012-11-19 09:45:47]

User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1080 posts, RR: 0
Reply 134, posted (2 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4095 times:

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 124):
Thinning out some more short-haul routes:

ABQ-TUS: 321 miles
OAK-RNO: 181 miles
LIT-STL: 296 miles
BHM-JAX: 365 miles
BHM-MSY: 321 miles

It's fascinating to me to watch many of these short-haul flights go away. Some of them have been around for years and were bread-and-butter routes for WN.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23295 posts, RR: 20
Reply 135, posted (2 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4112 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 133):
BOS-MCI (starts April 14)

I really like how WN has grown BOS; it started, IIRC, with MDW and BWI, and they've since added DEN, STL, BNA and now MCI. HOU would be another nice add.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4432 posts, RR: 6
Reply 136, posted (2 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4083 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 128):
AUS-HOU - 148 miles

Forgot about that one. Appears to still be going at 5x daily next summer.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 129):

Packages and whatnot aren't going to substitute for two free checked bags and no charges for carry-ons.

I wonder how familiar ICT residents are with WN and the no charge for checked bags. G4 appears to be 4x weekly on ICT-LAS over the winter. I'm curious as well to see if it lasts.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 130):
I know one flight does not a successful route make, but I flew this back in January, and it was PACKED...on a Saturday.

I'm seeing a 64% load-factor on BHM-JAX over a 12 month period, but I'm not sure how old the data is. Nothing too impressive regardless.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 130):
So did US (well, they were still kinda of HP at the time)...

Did HP ever run a daytime LAS-OKC flight? IIRC towards the end of that route it was a red-eye CRJ that left the late night LAS bank.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 132):
RNO-OAK another victory heading to Alaska.

I wonder how AS is doing on SJC-RNO after the June start this summer? At a 62% load-factor RNO-OAK WN wasn't performing the greatest anyway. It is impressive to say the least on how well AS can hold WN back in the pacific northwest.

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 134):
It's fascinating to me to watch many of these short-haul flights go away. Some of them have been around for years and were bread-and-butter routes for WN.

It's amazing how the focus is shifting away from established short-hauls and into large O&D city pairs and WN "focus cities."

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 135):
I really like how WN has grown BOS; it started, IIRC, with MDW and BWI, and they've since added DEN, STL, BNA and now MCI. HOU would be another nice add.

BOS-HOU would fit very nicely. Also with MSP growing slowly but nicely like BOS is it's be cool to see MSP-HOU.


User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3674 posts, RR: 2
Reply 137, posted (2 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4077 times:

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 4):
I don't think TN is within the Wright Amendment zone, so no MEM-DAL until at least 10/2014.

Correct, They could fly DAL-UTM   

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 5):
ISP-EYW (I've been told by somebody to look for it soon

I wonder if they take a weight penalty for this?

Quoting enilria (Reply 42):
I think given the perimeter rule at DAL, it should be MDW.

Perimeter has nothing to do with it. KS has been a WA state for awhile.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 57):
however HOU offers CRP

Most of those flights are direct one-stops to DAL

[Edited 2012-11-19 09:49:33]


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 138, posted (2 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4081 times:

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 134):
It's fascinating to me to watch many of these short-haul flights go away. Some of them have been around for years and were bread-and-butter routes for WN.

Interesting how things change.

MSY-BHM, for example, was at one point 7X/day. It was at 5X/day right before Katrina, and has been 2X ever since. Of course there was never a lot of local traffic between the citIes...most of that goes to Amtrak or I-59. Most of the flights continued to MDW or BNA or BWI, and vice versa. With the expansion of nonstops between MSY and MDW/BNA/BWI...all larger local markets...the need for the BHM stop diminished. The route was averaging mid/high 60% load factors as of late. Ripe for the picking.

[Edited 2012-11-19 09:42:10]

User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1383 posts, RR: 4
Reply 139, posted