RWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2160 posts, RR: 4 Reply 1, posted (7 months 23 hours ago) and read 5045 times:
I wish them the best, I am concerned with Europe's economy having some rocky times, if this is just another hurdle for a fledgling carrier to overcome? F50 seems like a nice passenger experience, I can not speak on working them. Any IATA code?
Next Flights: AS PDX-SEA-KOA on DH4/738 in F, HA KOA-OGG on 717 in Y, AS OGG-PDX on 738 in F
PlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11136 posts, RR: 63 Reply 6, posted (7 months 21 hours ago) and read 4541 times:
Quoting Ferminios (Thread starter): The airline claims to cooperate with 30 airlines. Who all those are, and to what extent is unknown to me at the moment.
For AMS and CDG to work I think they need to have some form of interline agreement with AF and KL. But that in itself isn't great for their bottom line.
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4149 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (7 months 15 hours ago) and read 4124 times:
Loadfactors
Quoting Ferminios (Thread starter): Founded by Hamid Kerboua, who's also involved in Amsterdam Airlines, the airline plans to start operations this January with Fokker F50s.
Laodfactors on AMS-MST were terrible when KL flew the route (average 50%). It was loss making and it will be for anyone. The other routes have failed as well in the past.
Quoting JU068 (Reply 2): Wow how long would a flight from Maastricht to Amsterdam take? 15 minutes?
20 minutes taxiing (if they get the Polderbaan assigned) at AMS, 20 mintues in the air. Inbound into AMS can also mean adding another 10 minutes to get in line of the runway.
brilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (7 months 15 hours ago) and read 4092 times:
Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 5): I'm a little skeptical but I sure hope they can make it work! It would be great to have domestic flights back in the Netherlands!
Martijn
Would the train not be faster...or biking or walking? I don't see the Netherlands needing a domestic carrier unless you include the Dutch Antilles as a domestic routing.
ushermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2888 posts, RR: 18 Reply 9, posted (7 months 15 hours ago) and read 4081 times:
Quoting brilondon (Reply 8): Would the train not be faster...or biking or walking? I don't see the Netherlands needing a domestic carrier unless you include the Dutch Antilles as a domestic routing.
From city center to city center the train takes about 2.5 hours.
european742 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 86 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (7 months 14 hours ago) and read 3995 times:
Sorry to be negative but I cant see this working especially MST-AMS, by the time you take into account getting to the airport, waiting an hour for the flight, the actual flight, getting thru the airport and then the train to the city it will probably take longer than the train. Having said that the only way it can work is an interline agreement with KL but when they flew it themselves it didnt even work. I think this will go the same direction as Amsterdam Airlines or even Europort Express, the airline that was launching from RTM. Of course I hope I am proved wrong but thats just my thoughts.
FlyingHollander From Netherlands, joined Jul 2011, 214 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (7 months 14 hours ago) and read 3963 times:
Quoting european742 (Reply 10): by the time you take into account getting to the airport, waiting an hour for the flight, the actual flight, getting thru the airport and then the train to the city it will probably take longer than the train.
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4149 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (6 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3452 times:
Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 11): Quoting european742 (Reply 10):
by the time you take into account getting to the airport, waiting an hour for the flight, the actual flight, getting thru the airport and then the train to the city it will probably take longer than the train.
This goes for quite a few routes.
The real problem is that there is no reason why many people would travel to or from MST. The Dutch province of Limburg isn't doing great and it isn't something like Eindhoven where you have a lot of tech companies (even though Philips left Eindhoven). It speaks for itself that MST wasn't (and still isn't) a daily flight to London. Needless to say the fact that DUS and BRU are nearby doesn't help.
Quoting european742 (Reply 10): I think this will go the same direction as Amsterdam Airlines or even Europort Express, the airline that was launching from RTM.
Amsterdam Airlines took off and managed to fly for 2 years... I don't think this airline will make it (if they fly at all).
Plane Holland From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 431 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3114 times:
Maastricht Airlines, the name itself is doomed to fail miserably. They should do the same as Ryanair does, fly a bit further and do some leisure flights and destinations.
bj87 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 444 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (6 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2925 times:
Quoting LJ (Reply 7):
Laodfactors on AMS-MST were terrible when KL flew the route (average 50%). It was loss making and it will be for anyone. The other routes have failed as well in the past.
To be honest KL practically didn't do any marketing whatsoever for that route. I only found out about the KLC flight to Amsterdam after a friend that works at a traveling agency pointed it out to me! After that I started using the Cityhopper like a personal shuttle bus. If you flew on KL or one of it's partners you only paid 25euros for the flight to AMS and back. That was much cheaper than the train or car + you don't have to get up ridiculously early and you don't have to haul your luggage half way through the country. I mis KL at MST these days it is easier to just use Brussels or Düsseldorf.
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 6):
For AMS and CDG to work I think they need to have some form of interline agreement with AF and KL. But that in itself isn't great for their bottom line.
I would agree, no one will fly just to AMS or CDG they will need that interline agreement to survive in the long run. This is not going to be the business hub that VLM had in Rotterdam! (ohw and let's not forget we also have the high speed rail service from Aachen to Paris that they will have to compete with.)
Quoting LJ (Reply 12): The real problem is that there is no reason why many people would travel to or from MST. The Dutch province of Limburg isn't doing great and it isn't something like Eindhoven where you have a lot of tech companies (even though Philips left Eindhoven). It speaks for itself that MST wasn't (and still isn't) a daily flight to London. Needless to say the fact that DUS and BRU are nearby doesn't help.
Agreed 95% There are time periods when people might want to fly to MST but "business" market is going to be weak at the best of times. Leisure and cargo flights are the way to go for MST. But like you said the do have to compete with DUS BRU and also EIN, not to mention the high speed rail services from Aachen. The fact that Ryanair is stationing an aircraft here for the winter proves that the leisure market demand is there all year round otherwise penny scrounger Ryanair would be here.
Then we have the capacity problem. MST is mostly a cargo/GA airport, the airport got swamped the last couple of months by 2 737s and 1 A319 landing within an hour of each other and sometimes were on the ground all at the same time. The terminal is not big enough to deal with 3 narrow body aircraft at the same time. It can be done but it ain't pretty!
Quoting LJ (Reply 12):
Amsterdam Airlines took off and managed to fly for 2 years... I don't think this airline will make it (if they fly at all).
In all fairness an ad/hoc charter company and a line carrier are difficult to compare. That said having someone at the helm that has already seen two airlines go bankrupt does not inspire confidence, although he could apply what he has learned and turn Maastricht Airlines into VLM 2.0!
Quoting Plane Holland (Reply 13): Maastricht Airlines, the name itself is doomed to fail miserably
Something a little more original would be nice but it will have to do. At least it isn´t something tacky like "peach".
Given FR will soon fly MST-STN with very unit-cost-efficient 738s, on what basis do you assume they'd be sufficient demand for a second operator? We can likely assume that if sufficient premium traffic existed WX would operate non-stop to LCY much like it does from, say, AMS, RTM, EIN, ANR (Belgium), etc.
[Edited 2012-10-27 06:08:14]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4149 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (6 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2677 times:
Quoting bj87 (Reply 14): If you flew on KL or one of it's partners you only paid 25euros for the flight to AMS and back.
Which will be loss making for KL, even with a 100% load factor. I personally think that KL made the same conclusion for MST as they made for ANR, it just not worth it. Yes, you're going to loose some pax to DUS or BRU, but if you make a considerable loss flying these pax, why continuing to service them (no offense intended)?
Quoting bj87 (Reply 14): To be honest KL practically didn't do any marketing whatsoever for that route. I only found out about the KLC flight to Amsterdam after a friend that works at a traveling agency pointed it out to me!
??? AMS-MST has been there for many many years until KL pulled it a few years ago.
Quoting bj87 (Reply 14):
Agreed 95% There are time periods when people might want to fly to MST but "business" market is going to be weak at the best of times. Leisure and cargo flights are the way to go for MST.
Which is why this venture won't succeed (apart from the fact that the F50 is too big for most of the routes they intend to operate). If you fly a F50 3/4 times daily to AMS (which was/is their plan) you better get a lot more than the EUR 25 one way KLC got for its flights (BTW their plan is/was to charge EUR 30 one way).
Quoting bj87 (Reply 14): he fact that Ryanair is stationing an aircraft here for the winter proves that the leisure market demand is there all year round otherwise penny scrounger Ryanair would be here.
Don't read too much in FR coming to MST. First, they are at MST partially to off set the constraints they have (or fear) at EIN. FR is currently actively bashing EIN for its constraints (or future constraints) whereas HV and other airlines don't seem to have issues with that (but that's another discussion). In the end it doesn't matter for most pax if they fly from MST or EIN. Second, MST isn't an expensive airport.
bj87 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 444 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (6 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2024 times:
Quoting LJ (Reply 19): ??? AMS-MST has been there for many many years until KL pulled it a few years ago.
I know that! I only moved here about ten years ago before I got into the whole flying thing. You might know it has been there for decades but if you are someone that doesn't have an interest in aviation and doesn't life next to the airport or within the arrival/departure route then you are not going to know it exists! If people don't know it exists then they will not use it.
Quoting LJ (Reply 19): Don't read too much in FR coming to MST. First, they are at MST partially to off set the constraints they have (or fear) at EIN. FR is currently actively bashing EIN for its constraints (or future constraints) whereas HV and other airlines don't seem to have issues with that (but that's another discussion). In the end it doesn't matter for most pax if they fly from MST or EIN. Second, MST isn't an expensive airport.
Obviously it helps that MST is a relatively inexpensive airport that does not suffer from restrictions, I am not naive. But you have got to admit FR does not fly to places where they can't fly the planes without an economical load. They are here because it can earn them money. I don't see why I can't use that to point out that there is a passenger market at MST!
Don't get me wrong MST is never going to be a big base 1 plane is probably going to be it.
Quoting by738 (Reply 21): Despite what they might advertise, SEN is not one of the " LON" airports
Quoting KL911 (Reply 22): For pax it will be. Easier and faster to get to the city compared to Stansted.
SEN has a direct rail service to London Liverpool street instead of a coach service like Stansted has. If I would have to choose I would definitely go for Southend. Stansted is a nice airport but I would prefer a direct rail service over a coach any day of the week, especially in winter.
Pe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 18838 posts, RR: 54 Reply 24, posted (6 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2005 times:
Quoting bj87 (Reply 23): SEN has a direct rail service to London Liverpool street instead of a coach service like Stansted has
STN has regular trains - often every 15 minutes during the day - to London Liverpool Street with the journey time around 45 minutes.
It also has many coaches to London (e.g. Victoria) by National Express and Terravision.
[Edited 2012-10-28 05:25:29]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
25 PlymSpotter: No, it's a London Airport, as classified by the CAA. Dan
26 TK1244: Although hoping to see them flying, I think "Maastricht Airlines" will have the same faith as "Wings of Maastricht"??? As of October 10th, 2010 (the d
27 MHG: Just need to add my ... MST has always been struggling to attract carriers. KLM served MST-AMS for many years but finally scrapped the route as passen
28 LJ: Only FR returned with some holiday destinations + Dublin and STN. Will be intersting to see if they can manage to make a profit this time.
29 SIBILLE: Should be great if AF could codeshare some flights from Maastricht to Paris CDG. I'm living in Belgium but only 30 minutes from Maastricht airport and
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