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AA/US To Hold Official Talks Next Tues (10/30)  
User currently offlinenwcoflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 692 posts, RR: 14
Posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11708 times:

One day before the NDA is set to expire, AA and US will hold formal talks next Tuesday to weigh the pros and cons of a merger.

This will be interesting to watch.

Source: WSJ

online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203897404578079033959686290.html

[Edited 2012-10-25 14:14:41]


The New American is arriving.
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7851 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11624 times:

Well this officially shuts down what people have been saying about a merger actually occurring   


This will probably raise a number of points, but a few I wish to see are
1) Employee relations post merger, including East West issues and labor issues with AA and the layoffs which will have to occur
2) The issues with the hubs and the allocation of flights and fleet
3) The issues with the creditors, primarily Boeing being very cautious about this merger, especially since US is an Airbus airline

Those three need to be discussed pretty thoroughly.



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlinenwcoflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 692 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11546 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
3) The issues with the creditors, primarily Boeing being very cautious about this merger, especially since US is an Airbus airline

Not to get to far off topic but when fleet sizes are as large as what a combined AA/US would be, I am pretty sure that they could happily keep split fleets into the future. I have heard Parker say that once fleet size passes a certain number of frames, the cost savings are not as large as you would think if you had all of one type or another.

Neither Airbus or Boeing could supply the needs of what the combined US/AA needs in the near term. As such, I wouldn't expect a merger to result in US canceling an order for hundreds of Boeing AC and delaying the fleet renewal program just to have all Airbus.

I can almost guarantee US would ensure Boeing a certain amount of business in order to get their buy-in since they are a creditor. US and Boeing may have had bad blood in the past but I don't think that represents the current US management team. The current US management team followed on the Airbus order from Wolf since Airbus gave US the better deal. Plain and simple. They were looking at Airbus and Boeing a few years ago before they placed their most recent order.



The New American is arriving.
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8698 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11230 times:

This implies they haven't been officially talking 24/7. IMO that hints against a merger.

User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7757 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11222 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 3):
O that hints against a merger.

I dont see how. I would think holding public talks is a sign of coming together not pulling apart. Not saying US and AA will merge, but in my opinion it will happen at some point.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7479 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11203 times:

Quoting nwcoflyer (Thread starter):
One day before the NDA is set to expire,
Quoting Flighty (Reply 3):
This implies they haven't been officially talking 24/7. IMO that hints against a merger.

My money is on AA using these talks to delay their exit from chpt.11.
Cynical, but in the world of high finance, everything goes.


User currently offlineaacun From Mexico, joined Jan 2004, 557 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11199 times:
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I really think this merger will be taking place sooner than we all think.

User currently offlineProst From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1117 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11141 times:

If the talks don't end with an agreement to merge, I assume Nov. 1 we'll be expecting a full on barrage from US Airways to take over AA.

I don't exactly know how that will pan out, but I do hope the employees of both carriers are able to focus on the task at hand, which is taking care of their customers. It is sometimes difficult under these circumstances, and I don't envy the positions they find themselves in, but I'm sure they will all come out of it working for better, a stronger carrier(s).


User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7479 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11066 times:

Quoting Prost (Reply 7):
but I'm sure they will all come out of it working for better, a stronger carrier(s).

Well since US made a profit and east and west still exist is it really that important for labour to be onboard, just show up to work and do their jobs, as it should be, these days there are too many bosses.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5903 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10515 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
This will probably raise a number of points, but a few I wish to see are

In all honesty I sincerely doubt they will discuss any of them. Instead they will throw data and economic forecasts back and forth at each other to try and figure out who will deliver the best return to AA's creditors (and - to a lessor extent - US' investors).

The location of hubs and the color of the planes are trivial points which only interest ANetters.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4098 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10509 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
The issues with the creditors, primarily Boeing being very cautious about this merger, especially since US is an Airbus airline

And AA was all Boeing until they ordered a ton of Airbuses. AA is no longer all-Boeing so it's not like Boeing would be losing an exclusive customer.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7851 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10268 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 9):
The location of hubs

It's not necessarily an a.netter only debate, this is pretty relevant to the business as a whole, and especially for who gets employed where.



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlinebhmdiversion From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9643 times:

I think talks will fail between American and USAirways. I believe that AA will be then taken over by Delta (if you want to call it a Hostile Takeover or what...) This would be a perfect way to get the LATAM routes/MIA, rebuild the DFW hub, and then OWN the NYC market. I only say this because this entire thing smells like the NWA merger to me.

Of course, this is my 2 cents.


User currently offline777law From Monaco, joined Jul 2006, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9605 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 3):
This implies they haven't been officially talking 24/7.

Perhaps - but it just as easily implies that they HAVE been talking unofficially while the NDA has been in place and the talks announced on 10/30 are the first public talks to be held. It wouldn't suprise me if things start to move very quickly after the "public" talks - possible an official merger announcement within a few weeks of the start of the meetings.

Let's face it - the NDA period has essentially been a due diligence review by both airlines. I don't think there would be any talks announced if the due diligence and the (inevitable) talks around the due diligence had not shown some promising results and a willingness on both sides to seriously pursue a merger.



UA- Premier Platinum, AF / KL - Flying Blue Petroleum, BA Executive Club Silver
User currently offlinetxkf2010 From Bermuda, joined Nov 2005, 211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9015 times:

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 12):
I think talks will fail between American and USAirways. I believe that AA will be then taken over by Delta (if you want to call it a Hostile Takeover or what...) This would be a perfect way to get the LATAM routes/MIA,

I bet Delta is really kicking themselves now for throwing Pan Am under the bus the way they did. If they would have kept the deal with Pan Am the way it was worked out, they would have never lost MIA/LATAM.

#longlivetheclipper



...Rastafari Stands Alone...
User currently offlineN737AA From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8854 times:

We keep hearing a December timeframe for an announcement regarding a merger......with whom it has not been revealed obviously.....but one VP told us that we are looking to regain our foothold at JFK and the Caribbean that we have lost over the last few years....

N737AA


User currently offlineUSAF336TFS From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1445 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8643 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 10):
AA is no longer all-Boeing so it's not like Boeing would be losing an exclusive customer.

I disagree with you. One of the major reasons AA bought Airbus single aisle aircraft was the perception Boeing couldn't delivery enough 737s to satisfy their perceived needs, at that time. Boeing is still a creditor, a very important one and they are well within their rights to kibosh any merger.

Has the Airbus purchase even been okayed by the bankruptcy judge? I believe the 737 purchase was.



336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11819 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8600 times:

Quoting N737AA (Reply 15):
We keep hearing a December timeframe for an announcement regarding a merger......with whom it has not been revealed obviously.....but one VP told us that we are looking to regain our foothold at JFK and the Caribbean that we have lost over the last few years....

Hmmm ...

I, too, have heard the same rumor from several at AA, although I have no idea of its veracity.

But it does pose a fascinating prospect: what if Horton does propose a merger, just not one with USAirways? What about an alternative merger with an airline that provides some level of meaningful presence in the northeast and the north-south east coast market (which is essentially what USAirways would bring to AA, anyway), and what if that merger was with an airline with far less integration issues, a far less complicated labor situation, etc.?

Not sure if it's really plausible, but it sure is interesting.

Never a dull moment ...

  


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8328 times:

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 12):
I think talks will fail between American and USAirways. I believe that AA will be then taken over by Delta (if you want to call it a Hostile Takeover or what...) This would be a perfect way to get the LATAM routes/MIA, rebuild the DFW hub, and then OWN the NYC market. I only say this because this entire thing smells like the NWA merger to me.

YAWN.......................................A hostile takeover in a industry like the airline industry will kill off the company that does the take over. Airlines, unlike many other industries have a disproportionate number of employees who have face contact with the customer. Angry AA employees could easy ruin Delta if they took it over if the employees choose to do so. Again it is nonsense to think AA could spurn US but somehow fall to Delta in a hostile takeover. As though AA mgmt is too dense to see such a scenario and prepare for it. AA mgmt has been poor at running an airline but

Quoting txkf2010 (Reply 14):
I bet Delta is really kicking themselves now for throwing Pan Am under the bus the way they did. If they would have kept the deal with Pan Am the way it was worked out, they would have never lost MIA/LATAM.

What makes you think DL would have done any better in MIA than UA did? They still would have faced a stronger AA in MIA and in the mid 1990s Delta was not exactly the best run airline. In fact I bet Delta would have surrendered MIA faster than UAL did.


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4098 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8234 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 18):
YAWN.......................................A hostile takeover in a industry like the airline industry will kill off the company that does the take over. Airlines, unlike many other industries have a disproportionate number of employees who have face contact with the customer.

Well, true in the sense that if the employees are against the takeover it will kill the airline. US/DL would have been ugly.

But a hostile takeover really only refers to the financial side of the company. The employees can potentially be all for a "hostile" takeover without that changing the fact that it's still "hostile."


User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7479 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8079 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 18):
Angry AA employees could easy ruin Delta if they took it over if the employees choose to do so.

Does anyone really believe that the authorities would allow a merger betwen DL and AA after the legacy consolidation that has already taken place? UA would then have to scoop up US to remain competitive, so the USA would have two legacies, UA and DL and a number of LCC's, from a competitive standpoint I do not see it being "approved" but you can never say never.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7536 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8064 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 3):

This implies they haven't been officially talking 24/7. IMO that hints against a merger.

There has been a non-disclosure agreement in place that has prevented US from talking about a merger.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7757 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7774 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 17):
But it does pose a fascinating prospect: what if Horton does propose a merger, just not one with USAirways? What about an alternative merger with an airline that provides some level of meaningful presence in the northeast and the north-south east coast market (which is essentially what USAirways would bring to AA, anyway), and what if that merger was with an airline with far less integration issues, a far less complicated labor situation, etc.?

If youre refering to B6, they have come out strongly saying they want nothing to do with AA in the way of a merger. It would be interesting if they went back on that statement.

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 12):
I believe that AA will be then taken over by Delta (if you want to call it a Hostile Takeover or what...) This would be a perfect way to get the LATAM routes/MIA, rebuild the DFW hub, and then OWN the NYC market. I only say this because this entire thing smells like the NWA merger to me.

What evidence is there to support that?

I personally believe that a AA/US tie up will happen. I dont know what time frame.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2405 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7694 times:

They are not holding "public" talks. They are holding "formal" talks. AA has to be in a position to say they examined the US proposal closely--very closely before rejecting it.

User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7150 times:

As I posted in the 'AA hiring pilots' thread; I am curious about why AA mgmt would say that they are overstaffed and then change course and hang the NOW HIRING sign in a matter of 8 weeks. IMHO this says that AA is planning on going forward alone. OTOH I can see US moving to Oneworld in the near term and testing the waters for a possible merger down the road. Similar to CO 's migration to Star in 08 ahead of the UA combination.

25 iFlyLOTs : I don't think it necessarily says that. I think that its more they have too many pilots leaving for retirement that they need new ones, and why not?
26 ItalianFlyer : Very true...and the ramped up retirements are well know public news. Yet the recall of pilots (apporx 1K) & recruitment of newbies with associate
27 commavia : Well remember - there are really only two groups about which AA has spoke of additional hiring - pilots and flight attendants. And the two groups are
28 nwcoflyer : I would bet whether a merger happens or not, they will need to hire. There is going to be a pilot shortage brewing in this industry over the next sev
29 bobloblaw : I agree. I am happy it didnt happen. It shows some ton e deafness on the part of Parker that he tried to take over DL hostely
30 DocLightning : It's hardly off-topic, since it is at issue in any potential merger scenario. Boeing has been watching what proceedings it can with great interest an
31 ckfred : I just saw the Zagat list of 10 worst airlines. US was number 5, while Spirit was number 2. (Ryan Air was number 1). So, why would the unionized emplo
32 HPRamper : Must a good list to be on seeing as those terrible airlines are making money.
33 D L X : I have to wonder something out loud: why would AA and US announce this meeting in any situation other than they had already held numerous private disc
34 LAXdude1023 : Thats kind of my line of thinking too. Why say anything unless youve either made significant progress one way or the other?
35 B377 : If you would read the WSJ article again, you will see that it is the AMR Creditors committee, and not AA, that is asking US to present what synergies
36 PSA727LAX : If there hasn't been any meaningful progress in talks between AA/US during the time frame of the NDA I seriously doubt they would publicly announce a
37 vlad1971 : Any news on the meeting on 30th ?? Anybody knows if AA/US met ? Thanks .
38 D L X : I read the article, and that is to whom I am refering. We all know that US Airways has had many chats with American's creditors prior to this date. N
39 rj777 : I would think it would depend on where the meeting was held. If it was held in NC or PA, then it probably didn't. But if it was in TX or AZ, it might
40 DLD9S : The meeting was to be held in NYC at AA's law firm's office.
41 Beardown91737 : Probably would not happen that way with Delta's employees and Parker's plans to use the name "Delta". They would make the best of flying for Delta wi
42 N737AA : Like I said.....one VP told us that we are looking to regain our foothold at JFK and the Caribbean that we have lost over the last few years.... This
43 etops1 : Meeting was not held .
44 enilria : It's no surprise that AA and OW want B6, not US. B6 won't do the deal unless forced, however. At best, I think they get B6 in OW only by giving them
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