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WN CEO: "Ambitious" Plans For MKE  
User currently offlineIllinoisMan From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 159 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7273 times:

http://www.jsonline.com/business/sou...n-milwaukee-957b3ai-176103431.html

"Kelly said Southwest will look at eventually adding new nonstop service from Milwaukee.

"We have a number of significant destinations that we serve across the country which will all be logical nonstop considerations for us," he said. "We'll be looking at that very carefully over the next couple of years.

"We know what you want in the market."

Southwest has been profitable for 39 straight years.

"We have a history of being a very stable force in a market," Kelly said. "You should expect from us that we are going to be here, we're going to be consistent."

But exactly what the airline may eventually look like here is an open question.

"I've always felt like Milwaukee had the prospect of being a 50-flight a day market," Kelly said. "Whether it ends up at 35 or 75, who knows?"

Don't look for Southwest to go crazy raising prices in Milwaukee on routes where it is dominant, Kelly and an industry analyst say."


Say hello to the cattle car flights MKE...Is this how low Milwaukee has sunk, that WN is now the "desired" airline in the city? Yes, YX is gone, mostly because people are only after "cheap" and not good. If you thought the service on F9 was bad, try flying this airline. I have yet to be on a flight of WN that is on time, or where anyone at the gate or on the plane was friendly, or even polite. For me, I'll choose DL every time, even if it means changing planes.

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4600 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7136 times:

Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter):
Say hello to the cattle car flights MKE...Is this how low Milwaukee has sunk, that WN is now the "desired" airline in the city? Yes, YX is gone, mostly because people are only after "cheap" and not good. If you thought the service on F9 was bad, try flying this airline. I have yet to be on a flight of WN that is on time, or where anyone at the gate or on the plane was friendly, or even polite. For me, I'll choose DL every time, even if it means changing planes.

Hmm...I can understand people having strong feelings towards an airline of their choice. I just find it interesting that you never met a polite person on WN. Just seems odd you would run into any airline without a polite person. Sounds like like another biased opinion. I've flown nearly every major airline in the US and have always met polite and friendly people.

As far as MKE...good news for them.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7115 times:
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Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter):
Say hello to the cattle car flights MKE

Where - exactly - does he say he has "ambitious" plans for MKE?

I've read the article three times and all I see is that Southwest will stay in MKE and may (or may not) add some flights - one day.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3827 posts, RR: 33
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7028 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 2):
Where - exactly - does he say he has "ambitious" plans for MKE?

It's the caption of the photo of Gary Kelly

Quote:
Southwest Airlines CEO Gary Kelly has ambitious plans for Milwaukee. He was in Milwaukee last week to meet with employees, customers and media.

LoneStarMike


User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 2005 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7023 times:

Hum, this could scuttle my theory that WN is destined to expand at STL. I always figured it was going to be MKE or STL and sounds like it's going to be MKE.
Or this is just Kelly knowing his audience and playing up to them and my theory could still be right!


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7010 times:
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Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 3):
It's the caption of the photo of Gary Kelly

I know that - but Mr. Kelly doesn't say it.

The newspaper is editorialising, expressing its own hopes, perhaps, but I think it is wrong to attribute it to him without any support from what he actually says.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2304 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6934 times:

Quoting LV (Reply 4):
Hum, this could scuttle my theory that WN is destined to expand at STL. I always figured it was going to be MKE or STL and sounds like it's going to be MKE.
Or this is just Kelly knowing his audience and playing up to them and my theory could still be right!

I think you're right   I dont see MKE being anything more than 50 flts/day. STL is just about to crack 100 and now has become a top 10 airport for SWA. I think STL will always be bigger than MKE. IMHO.


User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 445 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6875 times:

I agree that MKE is not destined to be a top destination for WN. Many airlines have tried and failed to make it a hub. Also, WN has a huge presence at MDW, which is relatively close to MKE. While I think MKE has potential for flights to BWI, HOU, STL, LAS, and possibly ATL, I wouldn't look for WN to expand service beyond cities where it already has a large presence. On the other point the OP brought up, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so I'll share mine. WN flight crews, and in general my fellow passengers on WN flights, have always been very pleasant and professional. I'd take WN over DL (or pretty much any other carrier) any day, particularly for shorter routes where full-service airlines wouldn't have IFE, which is the only reason that I would choose another airline over WN. But that's just me.

User currently offlinemke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6854 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 2):
Where - exactly - does he say he has "ambitious" plans for MKE?
Quoting mariner (Reply 5):
The newspaper is editorialising, expressing its own hopes, perhaps, but I think it is wrong to attribute it to him without any support from what he actually says.

He didn't say the exact word, but some of the other things he said seem to hint towards some kind of "ambitious" plan.

"My hope is that we can sustain that in the near term and grow that in the longer term."

"We are doing combat with an inconsistent economy and also high fuel prices. That's the only thing that tempers my enthusiasm here in the near term."

"I think we have a great product for business travelers. We'll need that support from Milwaukee. We're going to work hard to earn it. That I'll guarantee."

"I do think there is a very good opportunity here. But in the end, we're going to have to make it happen. We're going to have to serve the market. We're going to have to have the flights. We're going to have to win the business. And then, business is going to have to support us. I have very high hopes for our success here."



Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6835 times:
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Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 8):
He didn't say the exact word, but some of the other things he said seem to hint towards some kind of "ambitious" plan.

Yes, I read all of that - three times. But I also read:

"I've always felt like Milwaukee had the prospect of being a 50-flight a day market," Kelly said. "Whether it ends up at 35 or 75, who knows?"

That doesn't read as "ambitious" to me - it reads as completely open-ended, covering all his bases, as he should.

mariner

[Edited 2012-10-27 20:45:59]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2798 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6813 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

I hope those ambitious plans include BDL. I would be a happy camper if I could get from BDL-MKE. I like MKE airport a ton. It is a good size airport but not big enough to where one can get lost. The Chicago airports are great for nonstops. But getting from the gate to the rental car is a breeze at MKE. But like mentioned above, how much are they really going to do there with MDW just what, an hour away?
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlinerj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1851 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6730 times:

Maybe we'll finally see a return of MKE-OMA!

User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4389 posts, RR: 29
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6702 times:

Am I supposed to see anything here other than the general affirmation of the status quo?

MKE's growth and inroads in the Northern Illinois market was tied directly to price sensitivity. Delta and Southwest are each trying to carve out their own honey holes in the market. As the situation stands, they'll probably each be able to do reasonably well while maintaining reasonable fare levels (to them).

All this doesn't bode well for any long term sustainability of flow from the N. Illinois catchment area. Southwest's best bet at developing this is targeting passengers who are unfamiliar with them as an option and wouldn't bother with MDW to fly them. With a lack of much price incentive (from my experience), that is a tough sell and they're likely better off at ORD.

Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter):
YX is gone, mostly because people are only after "cheap" and not good.

I don't like it either, but it's a wee bit more complicated than that.

Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter):
Is this how low Milwaukee has sunk

Are we up on some kind of pedestal for you? What makes the MKE market radically different than any other kind of people in America? Are we supposed to be destined for and led by an insatiable lust for above average, luxurious air travel?

Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter):
If you thought the service on F9 was bad, try flying this airline. I have yet to be on a flight of WN that is on time, or where anyone at the gate or on the plane was friendly, or even polite.

And i've flown Southwest precisely once, and I got the f/a famous for his rapping on youtube. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you have a very limited sample size. Clearly Southwest has done well relative the industry in this department, regardless of our limited anecdotes.

And by the way, if anyone hasn't noticed, the "Southwest effect" has become the inverse, so really don't believe a word their management says when they talk low fares. David has become Goliath.

Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter):

Don't look for Southwest to go crazy raising prices in Milwaukee on routes where it is dominant, Kelly and an industry analyst say


Does anyone believe this? Prices have raised on routes where they've become dominant. Significantly. Why would anyone expect any different? They're not the benevolent Goliath spreading the freedom of mobility to the masses, they're a business operating on the market principles. "Go crazy" is a bit relative..

[Edited 2012-10-27 21:34:11]

[Edited 2012-10-27 21:37:49]


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6648 times:

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 12):
the "Southwest effect" has become the inverse

Thats not exactly true. When WN adds service to a small city it is still the Southwest effect but recently SWA has been adding large cities (LGA, EWR, ATL) and all of those already had really low fares so they can't lower it anymore. In no way does SWA raise prices though.

Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter):
Say hello to the cattle car flights MKE...Is this how low Milwaukee has sunk, that WN is now the "desired" airline in the city? Yes, YX is gone, mostly because people are only after "cheap" and not good. If you thought the service on F9 was bad, try flying this airline. I have yet to be on a flight of WN that is on time, or where anyone at the gate or on the plane was friendly, or even polite. For me, I'll choose DL every time, even if it means changing planes.

This is so funny. I remember someone saying the same thing about F9 a few weeks ago. Had the same name and everything... oh wait... Just another biased opinion from the anti every airline but Midwest and Delta user.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4389 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6626 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 13):
In no way does SWA raise prices though.

Really? They haven't wanted to eliminate competition in MKE to gain control of markets and raise prices?

In Denver?


Of course every situation and city is different, but how can you say they do not raise prices?

More power to them, but don't think they're not usually the bullier now and not the bullied.

[Edited 2012-10-27 21:43:29]


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6613 times:

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 14):
but how can you say they do not raise prices?

They raise prices for a ticket but the Southwest effect is Southwest entering a market and lowering fares. Southwest doesn't enter a market and raise fares and if they have it is extremely rare.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7909 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6518 times:

"we might add a new destination to MKE" = "ambitious plans for MKE?"  


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4403 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6443 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Interesting article, but I'm just not seeing WN allocating much more for flights to MKE when capacity is tight trying to get FL cities converted over. Capacity system-wide is also to remain flat until profit margins are improved. I wouldn't read a lot into this as Kelly states they could be at "35 or 75" daily flights in the future. This news story if nothing else is nice free advertisement hype for WN.

I'm sure once everything is converted over to WN equipment only MKE will be handling a noticeable amount of connecting traffic, particularly out of DCA, LGA, and BOS to WN cities in the west/mid-west.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 6):
I think you're right I dont see MKE being anything more than 50 flts/day. STL is just about to crack 100 and now has become a top 10 airport for SWA. I think STL will always be bigger than MKE. IMHO.

Looks like MKE is at 50 a day next month. I would be very surprised to see WN ever get close to the size of the STL operation.

Here's a run down of the MKE schedule after the new schedule Nov. 4:

2x BOS
4x BWI
2x DEN
2x MCI
1x LAX
4x LAS
5x MSP
4x LGA
1x MCO
3x PHX
2x STL
1x SFO
1x TPA
1x SEA
1x FLL
6x ATL (FL equipment)
2x MCO (FL equipment)
1x TPA (FL equipment)
3x RSW (FL equipment)
4x DCA (FL equipment)

Total: 50 daily, 16 of them on FL equipment.

The next "logical" stations I can see being added from MKE are BNA, SAN, or HOU, but those aren't huge fish to fry either. DAL may also work once 2014 rolls around. MSY, PHL, PDX, SAT, SAN, CLT (CLT is unlikely for obvious reasons) are the larger markets not currently served by WN out of MKE (along with SAN and HOU).

Quoting rj777 (Reply 11):
Maybe we'll finally see a return of MKE-OMA!

I'm going to rain on the parade and say unlikely. When FL flew it, there was only around 60 O&D passengers a day IIRC.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 10):
I hope those ambitious plans include BDL. I would be a happy camper if I could get from BDL-MKE. I like MKE airport a ton.

At only around 100 passengers a day I just don't see this either. There are too many other places with higher amounts of traffic to place their aircraft right now.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 16):
"we might add a new destination to MKE" = "ambitious plans for MKE?"

[checkmark]

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 15):
They raise prices for a ticket but the Southwest effect is Southwest entering a market and lowering fares. Southwest doesn't enter a market and raise fares and if they have it is extremely rare.

While they seem to always keep fares reasonable, it'd be interesting to compare routes in DEN to comparable distance routes at other stations where they have the majority of the market share.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD.
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2866 posts, RR: 30
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 6307 times:

Folks in MKE should be extremely happy to be getting all the WN service that they are! Was I the only one in a state of absolute shock when WN announced that it would be taking on FL routes like MKE-SFO and MKE-MSY?!? I thought for sure those were goners. Now that WN picked up NK's DCA slots to offer a 2x daily STL-DCA service, I think they'll even keep MKE-DCA, albeit at reduced frequency*. Assuming they also elect to keep MKE-ATL, MKE-RSW, and MKE-CUN - I can't imagine why they would cut any of those popular routes - they will have kept every single mainline route that FL was flying from MKE at the time of the acquisition. WN did not see a business case for any of the OO/FL regional routes, except for MKE-STL. While there certainly is some demand for stuff like MKE-OMA and MKE-PIT, 737s are simply not appropriate aircraft for such routes. That won't change. Perhaps the only expansion I could see from MKE would be something like BNA, perhaps DAL after the Wright Amendment expires, maybe seasonals to PDX and SAN. It really comes down to aircraft availability and O&D for such flights. I should think most, if not all, viable LCC mainline markets from MKE are already very well served today.

*WN could start a 5x daily MDW-DCA service with 2 MKE-DCA slots, 2 ATL-DCA slots, and the MCO-DCA slot. That would result in an offering from DCA of 5x daily MDW, 2x daily STL, 2x daily MKE, 4x daily ATL, 1x daily RSW (using an AIR-21 slot that cannot be transferred without government permission), and 1x daily AUS.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offline2175301 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1070 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5954 times:

Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter):
If you thought the service on F9 was bad, try flying this airline. I have yet to be on a flight of WN that is on time, or where anyone at the gate or on the plane was friendly, or even polite. For me, I'll choose DL every time, even if it means changing planes.

Really? While the service on F9 is not as quite as good as it was on Midwest; it is as good or better than the other airlines (excluding Midwest) that I have flown in the last decade. In fact F9 is my preferred airline for flying west of Milwaukee (which I do periodically - and I completed my last trip to and from Seattle last Monday).

As for your comparison to Delta. F9 has done something for me that Delta (and NW before them) has only rarely been able to do. Get me there and back on time (and I count "on time" as arriving within several hours of the planned arrival times - and F9 has never been more that 1/2 hour late on any of the trips I have taken). I am not saying that it has never happened with NW or Delta; but its like once every 10 trips or something like that (and I am not kidding - I can really list all of my trips and how bad either the outbound or the return trip was - and only a few of them were major weather or in flight medical emergencies which I understand). My last trip with Delta had two planes in a row go tech on my return leg and Delta then told me that they could no longer even get me back to Milwaukee that day (this was like at 10 AM after the 2nd plane went tech). I asked them if they could get me to Chicago and I would rent a car and drive to Milwaukee (which I did). I was transferred to American for a flight to Chicago. But, Delta forgot to transfer my luggage even though there was a several hour wait for the AA flight - and it took almost a week for my luggage to be found and returned to me.

I understand that most people seem to have better luck on average with Delta. But I really no longer plan on getting there and back anywhere near on time when I am sent on a trip with Delta by my employer.

Have a great day,


User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5762 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 2):
Where - exactly - does he say he has "ambitious" plans for MKE?
Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 3):
It's the caption of the photo of Gary Kelly
Quoting mariner (Reply 5):
I know that - but Mr. Kelly doesn't say it.

  

All in all it appears Kelly gave quite the honest, direct interview without any fluff. That's hard to come by from airline executives when asked questions like the ones it appears he was asked. The piece itself was also relatively restrained, with the exception perhaps of this paragraph and its implication:

If history is any indication, Southwest is likely to expand its presence in Milwaukee. In cities where it has become the dominant carrier - St. Louis, Kansas City, Mo., Baltimore, Nashville, Tenn., San Diego to name a few - the airline has started small and grown almost exponentially.

Quoting LV (Reply 4):
Hum, this could scuttle my theory that WN is destined to expand at STL. I always figured it was going to be MKE or STL and sounds like it's going to be MKE.

I think you read way too much into the article.


Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 8):
He didn't say the exact word, but some of the other things he said seem to hint towards some kind of "ambitious" plan.
Quoting mariner (Reply 9):
That doesn't read as "ambitious" to me - it reads as completely open-ended, covering all his bases, as he should.

I agree.

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 8):
"My hope is that we can sustain that in the near term and grow that in the longer term."

I'd sure as hell hope so. And I'd expect he'd say that about every market.

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 8):
"We are doing combat with an inconsistent economy and also high fuel prices. That's the only thing that tempers my enthusiasm here in the near term."

"Adding service with these fuel prices is probably a stretch."

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 8):
"I think we have a great product for business travelers. We'll need that support from Milwaukee. We're going to work hard to earn it. That I'll guarantee."

"Since we have all of this service in Milwaukee, it probably makes sense to try to fill the seats. I think we do a pretty good job. I hope Milwaukee sees it. And we're going to do our best--as we do in every market we serve--to earn the loyalty of local travelers."

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 8):
"I do think there is a very good opportunity here. But in the end, we're going to have to make it happen. We're going to have to serve the market. We're going to have to have the flights. We're going to have to win the business. And then, business is going to have to support us. I have very high hopes for our success here."

"I hope we succeed in Milwaukee and that people here like us."

Quoting mariner (Reply 9):
"I've always felt like Milwaukee had the prospect of being a 50-flight a day market," Kelly said. "Whether it ends up at 35 or 75, who knows?"

This says it all and is why I have respect for the guy. Instead of wanting to give the newspaper a quote that says, "Sure, if conditions are right, we could have 100 flights a day here," (which is essentially saying the same thing as the above) only to be quoted 2 years later when the number of flights hasn't changed, he has, as mariner said, covered all his bases. Who knows what the airline operating environment in 2 years will look like? I'm sure Kelly has some pretty good, well informed guesses, but even he knows he doesn't know the answer to that question.


User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8269 posts, RR: 23
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5624 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 17):
50 daily

So they're at 50 today, Kelly said he sees MKE as a "50 a day market," and the ambitious plans are… where? 50 flights plus or minus 15 seems to be pretty much business as usual, no?



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4600 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5055 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 21):
So they're at 50 today, Kelly said he sees MKE as a "50 a day market," and the ambitious plans are… where? 50 flights plus or minus 15 seems to be pretty much business as usual, no?

One thing to keep in mind is that when Kelly is speaking in this context, he is likely speaking about WN-branded operations. So going by the list above, that would imply those 16 FL flights will get replaced by a number close to that on the WN side. I'm sure the destination will change some, but capacity will probably see an equal trade off.


User currently offlineIllinoisMan From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5036 times:

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 12):
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you have a very limited sample size. Clearly Southwest has done well relative the industry in this department, regardless of our limited anecdotes.

MKE's airline service has gone from 'controlled boarding with class' to 'cattle car no-class' within 4 years. The typical, a few times a year flyer will not be flocking to WN unless there is no other option.

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 12):
Does anyone believe this? Prices have raised on routes where they've become dominant. Significantly. Why would anyone expect any different?

Unlike other carriers that have gouged passengers on routes that they dominated (YX & NW, for example), WN has not demonstrated that behaior. This may be why they are so highly regarded by others, have been profitable for 39 straight years, and have grown to the largest US carrier. While your premise is that big business is bad for the consumer, WN proves just the opposite. One of the reasons that MKE fares are lower than most markets is due to WN's presence.


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4403 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4971 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 18):
Was I the only one in a state of absolute shock when WN announced that it would be taking on FL routes like MKE-SFO and MKE-MSY

SFO has healthy enough O&D to/from MKE to maintain a couple daily no problem. MKE-MSY can support one flight a day at most probably. I guess SFO doesn't surprise me but MSY was nice to see kept. OAK would offer significantly more connections, however (especially southern California and PDX/SEA) but it does not appear OAK has many connecting passengers from MKE, and WN stated their primary goal is O&D not connecting passengers. One more thing to consider is It would seem reasonable to assume MKE-OAK would be a substitute for many if it offered instead of MKE-SFO.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 21):
daily
So they're at 50 today, Kelly said he sees MKE as a "50 a day market," and the ambitious plans are… where? 50 flights plus or minus 15 seems to be pretty much business as usual, no?

Nothing earth shaterring that's for sure. I would guess over the next few years we may see some of the following: HOU, DAL (once it is allowed), BNA, SAN, STL. Again the problem with some of these routes is there are "bigger fish to fry right now."

Kevin  



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD.
25 neveragain : Quite the contrary. I personally don't fly WN for the same reasons as many others (and have the same strong, probably irrational reaction to flying W
26 Post contains links mariner : Southwest has either initiated or validated all the fare price hikes of the past two years. If Southwest doesn't go along with a price hike started b
27 GentFromAlaska : With eighty miles separating MKE-MDW I see this as a realization MDW with WN significant presence may be nearing capacity with MKE serving serve as a
28 Cubsrule : For folks who do fly frequently and live in their larger cities, they are a vital option as well. And even when someone else has a similar schedule,
29 mke717spotter : It may only be around 80-90 miles that separate the two, but its a two hour drive, if not more, so I think the cannibalization effect is minimal. Som
30 jpetekyxmd80 : We get it, you don't like their boarding. It has pros and cons. Not really sure what point you are trying to make other than reminding us they have d
31 Cubsrule : On which of WN's monopoly routes are refundable tickets in excess of $4 per mile? WN may be more like legacies than they used to be as far as "antico
32 jpetekyxmd80 : I was referring more to predatory practices than fare structure, but you're right on that account, that is an advantage of their presence in a market.
33 jporterfi : I was more referring to having two hubs with a large percentage of connecting passengers so close together by air, not necessarily to cannibalization
34 airliner371 : Yeah, the largest domestic airline in the world won't get any infrequent flyer. ANOTHER biased opinionated post from you. We get it, you don't like a
35 aa777lvr : Spoken like a true entitled prick. True, WN is never going to kiss your hmmm..... Platinum or Diamond Medallion ass. The thing I appreciate about WN
36 TVNWZ : Nonsense. I fly DL a lot and WN a few times. I find the gate lice situation at Delta to be a lot more 'cattle car no-class' boarding process than WN.
37 WNCrew : Obviously.... ; ) ...but it's "COOL" to refer to WN as "cattle-car" despite the facts..... sigh...
38 Post contains images iFlyLOTs : My guess is thats who they're really targeting. You get a seat, friendly service and you don't have to pay for bags, why not fly WN if you're just go
39 IllinoisMan : In WN's case, I think their declining financial results have something to do with rapid expansion + ending of fuel hedges made years ago = lower prof
40 mariner : And where is Airtran now? mariner
41 jpetekyxmd80 : That's the problem. It was best thing vs. next best thing. But the next best thing needed to topple the best thing. I'm one of those people you speak
42 airliner371 : So the last time you flew was 2007; because thats the last time they used the boarding you describe? A lot of things have changed since then, includi
43 mke717spotter : I'm glad WN is at MKE, and ever since they entered the market they've sort of been my airline of choice. I go to school in Arizona and whenever I com
44 mariner : Everyone seems to forget that the Airtran CEO said - after the event - that acquiring Midwest would probably have pushed Airtran into bankruptcy. It
45 jpetekyxmd80 : That's a good point. AirTran ultimately accomplished most of what they wanted without taking on the baggage. Theres no way a merger would've left a co
46 ouboy79 : I doubt you'll see wage concessions at WN and the talk of bankruptcy right now is really premature. You'll see work rules concessions and probably bu
47 737tdi : Well then, fly Delta! More power to you. IMO WN treats all of it's passengers as first class. No curtain to be drawn to shut out the scum, right? Why
48 dlflynhayn : Cattle drive haha!! I agree it's crowded at the gates sometimes for DL but I'll take that over WN any day. You can bend it anyway you want it's still
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