LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22021 posts, RR: 51 Posted (6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 15830 times:
Rumors had been brewing the last few weeks, but AA today made it official that first delivery of the 777-300ER will slip some 7-weeks till January 31, 2013 now.
Delay is being attributed to ongoing issues related to the new first class seat product.
Originally two air frames were expected to be delivered in December.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14310 posts, RR: 26 Reply 2, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12119 times:
How would this delay go contractually? As I understand it, seats are buyer furnished equipment, so if the plane cannot be completed wouldn't AA be on the hook to Boeing? And of course they would want to seek compensation from the seat manufacturer. But, why would American delay delivery? Couldn't they just take delivery of the plane and then install the seats themselves when they arrive so Boeing won't have to make accommodations?
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
cloud4000 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 639 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11854 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2): How would this delay go contractually? As I understand it, seats are buyer furnished equipment, so if the plane cannot be completed wouldn't AA be on the hook to Boeing? And of course they would want to seek compensation from the seat manufacturer. But, why would American delay delivery? Couldn't they just take delivery of the plane and then install the seats themselves when they arrive so Boeing won't have to make accommodations?
Depends on what AA contract with Boeing states. A big customer like AA might get generous provision like slipping date of delivery. And it's only 7-weeks, not 6-months. And from AA's perspective, why pay a loan of an aircraft that is sitting on the ground for 7-weeks right after delivery.
JAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1187 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10834 times:
To say I am disappointed is a great understatement! I wonder if they will also delay application of the livery now as well?
bigbird From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 147 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8179 times:
January 31 is also the day that they have to file their reorginazation plan. Remember it was extended by 30 days by the court a few days ago. What a coincidence!!!!!
MCIGuy From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7306 times:
Quoting bigbird (Reply 5): January 31 is also the day that they have to file their reorginazation plan. Remember it was extended by 30 days by the court a few days ago. What a coincidence!!!!!
Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 4): I wonder if they will also delay application of the livery now as well?
My guess is yes, they will delay the new paint, especially since these birds will be outside. Seems like AA is keeping the new brand a closely held secret.
OldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3206 posts, RR: 66 Reply 7, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6106 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2): But, why would American delay delivery? Couldn't they just take delivery of the plane and then install the seats themselves when they arrive so Boeing won't have to make accommodations?
Certification can be a little tricky. The configuration would need to be certified without the seats installed and then re-certified by American after the subsequent installation. Since AA won't operate the airplane without the seats, waiting is probably a better option.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
LMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5642 times:
Quoting cloud4000 (Reply 3): Depends on what AA contract with Boeing states. A big customer like AA might get generous provision like slipping date of delivery. And it's only 7-weeks, not 6-months. And from AA's perspective, why pay a loan of an aircraft that is sitting on the ground for 7-weeks right after delivery.
Passenger seats are what are commonly referred to in the industry as "customer furnished". In other words when an airline orders a plane they pick which seat manufacturer is going to supply the seats and the maker supplies them to Boeing. If the seats are late that's not Boeings fault. Now who the airline goes after becasue of the seats I'm not a 100% sure of. What I am pretty sure of is that Boeing will not be the one paying the cost of it.
Quoting seahawks7757 (Reply 5): Honestly though my money is on disgruntled employees.
My money is on either an error at an MRO, AA started contracting out some 757 last year, or an error at TULE. Becaue in all my years in the airline business I have never come across a case of deliberate sabotage.
qqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2198 posts, RR: 14 Reply 9, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5398 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): AA today made it official that first delivery of the 777-300ER will slip some 7-weeks till January 31, 2013 now.
AA made official the first revenue flight has been delayed, but did not discuss the actual delivery date. Delivery of the aircraft and first revenue flight will not occur on the same day. AA was scheduled to take delivery of the new bird on/around November 17, with the first revenue flight on December 13. So the 77W should be on property well before the first revenue flight. If we're going to use the same seven week slip, I think we can anticipate delivery to come around the end of the year, or very beginning of January.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16802 posts, RR: 57 Reply 10, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4397 times:
Quoting cloud4000 (Reply 3): Depends on what AA contract with Boeing states. A big customer like AA might get generous provision like slipping date of delivery. And it's only 7-weeks, not 6-months. And from AA's perspective, why pay a loan of an aircraft that is sitting on the ground for 7-weeks right after delivery.
On the other hand, that aircraft has capital value, so the owner (which would still be Boeing) might have to pay taxes on that aircraft if they are in possession come 12:01 AM 1/1/13. I wonder how that gets handled.
Josh32121 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 325 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4017 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10): On the other hand, that aircraft has capital value, so the owner (which would still be Boeing) might have to pay taxes on that aircraft if they are in possession come 12:01 AM 1/1/13. I wonder how that gets handled.
The aircraft is inventory until it's delivered, and business inventories are exempt from property tax in Washington. From AA's perspective, it's taxable value would probably be apportioned among multiple jurisdictions (if it's not exempt or taxed in a different way entirely under some other provision in the law), and the lien dates could be different in those other jurisdictions.
Regardless of the reason, my bet is that the deferred delivery date is tied in some way to the bankruptcy proceedings. Perhaps the seat supplier wasn't willing to supply the seats without a cash deposit that or 100% prepayment that AA wasn't willing to make or couldn't make. Who knows?
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22021 posts, RR: 51 Reply 13, posted (6 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2848 times:
Schedules were updated last night for 77W usage.
DFW-GRU delayed from 12/13 till 1/31 - then 3x weekly AA963/962
DFW-LHR delayed from 1/30 till 3/2 - then daily AA050/AA079
JFK-LHR delayed from 2/14 till 3/15 - then daily AA100/139
JFK-GRU delayed from 4/1 till 4/11 - then daily AA951/950
LAX-LHR delayed from 5/1 till 6/12 - then daily AA136/135
=
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
readytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2763 times:
Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 11): Regardless of the reason, my bet is that the deferred delivery date is tied in some way to the bankruptcy proceedings. Perhaps the seat supplier wasn't willing to supply the seats without a cash deposit that or 100% prepayment that AA wasn't willing to make or couldn't make.
that has a ring of common sense about, everyone hedging their bets.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
American 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3320 posts, RR: 14 Reply 18, posted (6 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2422 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13): DFW-GRU delayed from 12/13 till 1/31 - then 3x weekly AA963/962
DFW-LHR delayed from 1/30 till 3/2 - then daily AA050/AA079
JFK-LHR delayed from 2/14 till 3/15 - then daily AA100/139
JFK-GRU delayed from 4/1 till 4/11 - then daily AA951/950
LAX-LHR delayed from 5/1 till 6/12 - then daily AA136/135
I'm sure MIA, a big hub for AA, will see it too at some point. MIA-LHR will probably still be a 772 but MIA-GRU, with 3x daily (currently 2x 772 and 1x 763), might see the 77W at least 1x daily, MIA-GIG also.
mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31106 posts, RR: 74 Reply 19, posted (6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2278 times:
Quoting American 767 (Reply 18): I'm sure MIA, a big hub for AA, will see it too at some point. MIA-LHR will probably still be a 772 but MIA-GRU, with 3x daily (currently 2x 772 and 1x 763), might see the 77W at least 1x daily, MIA-GIG also.
MIALHR is tentatively set for a 77W in Oct13. MIAEZE will also likely see the 77W next winter.
I don't know why JFK-NRT isn't a route for AA. Maybe they applied and didn't get it, I don't know. SJC-NRT is definitely a 787 route no matter who flies it.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21448 posts, RR: 24 Reply 24, posted (6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1800 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22): I don't know why JFK-NRT isn't a route for AA. Maybe they applied and didn't get it
U.S.-Japan has been Open Skies since late 2010. Any U.S. or Japanese carriers can operate any routes they want between the two countries.
25 iFlyLOTs: DFW is the most likely, ORD is in the middle, and I have no idea where SJC came from.. AA hasn't used that as a hub or for any international flights
26 PHX787: Makes me wonder why AA JFK-NRT isn't flying then; maybe it's issues with O.W.'s routing or something, I don't know. I'm not a O.W. or AA enthusiast.
27 Polot: AA use to fly JFK-NRT. They dropped it to focus on JFK-HND. Between JL, ANA, DL, and UA over at EWR there really is no need for AA to add another fli
28 qqflyboy: As Polot said, AA dropped JFK-NRT in favor of JFK-HND. JL flies JFK-NRT daily, and remember with AA and JL's joint venture, the routes are metal neut
29 OB1504: The 763 flight (AA 929) was upgauged to a 772 this week and will remain as such for the remainder of the high season. I don't think MIA-GIG will see
30 American 767: It does in at least one of the three daily flights. If MIA-GRU won't see the 77W, then MIA-GIG or MIA-EZE will, if not year-round, at least seasonal.
31 LAXintl: AA flew JFK-NRT since 2002, and dropped it earlier this year. Its JV partner JAL still operates the route. Well in practice no - hence why there are
32 817Dreamliiner: Well not unless I find a J class fare for under £500 which at the moment is kinda unlikely... so im kinda stuck with Y on my budget, however im hopi
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