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BA Upgrade SYD To 77W & Move To T5  
User currently offlineseansasLCY From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2007, 852 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13358 times:

British Airways will operate the Boeing 777-300ER on its services to Sydney. I guess this ends the speculation about BA ending the service.

Flights will also operate from T5.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/ba-upgrades-...o-boeing-777-shifts-to-heathrow-t5

63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6413 posts, RR: 38
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13332 times:

Quoting seansasLCY (Thread starter):

Wow! I didn't see that one coming. It'll be nice to catch a BA 77W in SYD. Well done to BA for keeping this route open.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4383 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13330 times:

Why is that an upgrade? Poor 747  .


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4905 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13289 times:

Wow... An announcement many of us certainly didn't expect!

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently onlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17060 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13287 times:

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 2):
Why is that an upgrade? Poor 747 .

Much better product offered on the 77W.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13189 times:

Fantastic! And a very smart move, if they advertise the upgrade. I wouldn't have considered a BA 77E or 744 to the UK, but their 77W would be fine.

User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6413 posts, RR: 38
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13107 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 5):

I think they have no choice but to advertise it. I just hope it stays on for a while to come and not be some flight which is an attempt to stay on the route which ends up closing a couple of years later.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12979 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 1):
Wow! I didn't see that one coming.

Not really that much of a surprise. Alright, maybe the B777-300ER was unexpected but it's only logical that BA find space for its SIN and SYD flight in T5 as these are both prestigious destinations. The only reason that BA kept this service in T3 was because of the Qantas JV.


User currently offlineshamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1596 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12721 times:

Thales will be much more appreciated by customers on this long journey!

User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4383 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12667 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 4):
Much better product offered on the 77W.

Really? How so?

I just flew in CW on the 744 upper deck. How on earth would I find hostel class on the 777 to be a better product? The 744 had a brand new F cabin installed, how is that a worse product? What are we down to, Y class PTVs?

A 744 kept up to date with retrofits will never be a downgrade from the 77W.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5364 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12563 times:

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 9):
how is that a worse product?

The new Y and Y+ seats are a massive improvement. I can't speak for F and J, but in World Traveller I'd choose the 77W over a 744 and 772 any day. Indeed, I've flown BA28 twice this year for that precise reason, BA26 is a 744.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4383 posts, RR: 29
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12545 times:

The 74s are in BA's plans quite a ways into the future, are there any plans to install an updated Y product?


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlinecapri From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 449 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12542 times:

Don't get your hopes too high, it still says up to now on their websites a B744,
so we wait for an official news though


User currently offlinealitaliadc10 From Australia, joined Dec 2008, 240 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12321 times:

The move to T5 is confirmed but as Capri states schedules in CRS/GDS still show 744...


Orbis non sufficit
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2996 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12277 times:

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 9):
I just flew in CW on the 744 upper deck. How on earth would I find hostel class on the 777 to be a better product?

Totally agree. CW on the 744 upper deck is in a different league from anything on the 77W, no matter how new and shiny it is!



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4431 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12176 times:

Definitely a downgrade, from the Queen of the skies to a light twin !


The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12133 times:

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 7):
Not really that much of a surprise. Alright, maybe the B777-300ER was unexpected but it's only logical that BA find space for its SIN and SYD flight in T5 as these are both prestigious destinations. The only reason that BA kept this service in T3 was because of the Qantas JV.

Has it been confirmed that BA11/12 to SIN are also moving to T5? Would make sense if there is room to have both SIN flights at T5.

I wonder if BA9/10 to BKK will also make the move to T5 after the end of the QF agreement?


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 7459 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12086 times:

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 2):
Why is that an upgrade?

Many of the 'Mid J' configured 744s, the type operated by BA to SYD, are not and will not be fitted with the BA "New First" product. However all of BA's 77Ws are fitted with the BA "New First" product.

None of the seats in any of BA's 744s are fitted with the latest Thales i5000 IFE System. However all of the seats in all classes in the BA 77W fleet are fitted with the latest Thales i5000 IFE System.

None of BA's 744s are fitted with the latest BA World Traveller Plus ('W' Class) cabin/seat. However all of their 77Ws are fitted with the latest BA World Traveller Plus cabin/seat.

None of BA's 744s are fitted with the latest BA World Traveller ('Y' Class) cabin/seat. However all of their 77Ws are fitted with the latest World Traveller cabin/seat.

All of BA's 744s, like all of their 77Ws, are fitted with BA's second generation lie-flat 'J' Business Class seat. There are 52 of these seats on the 'Mid J' configured 744s used on the LHR-SYD route. There are slightly more of these same seats - 56 - fitted in all of BA's 77Ws.

So the BA 77W is a superior option to the BA 744 in all cabins. Even in Business Class, where the 744 fleet, like the 77W fleet, has the BA Second Generation Business Class seat, the seats in the 77W are fitted with a superior IFE System.


User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4383 posts, RR: 29
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12029 times:

Thanks for the information about the variation of the 744 fleet. BA will have many of these birds for awhile, are there plans for updating the Y cabin? We'll have to agree to disagree about the J cabins, I still strongly prefer the 744.

[Edited 2012-10-30 18:11:37]


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25102 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11950 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 17):
None of BA's 744s are fitted with the latest BA World Traveller ('Y' Class) cabin/seat. However all of their 77Ws are fitted with the latest World Traveller cabin/seat.

I haven't flown in the new BA Y class seat, but new generation seats aren't necessarily better than the seats they replaced. I can think of many examples where the opposite is true and the old seats were much more comfortable.

One positive thing about BA's 777 Y class seats (old and new) is that they're still 9-abreast, not 10-abreast like many of BA's competitors.


User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5364 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 11833 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):
I haven't flown in the new BA Y class seat, but new generation seats aren't necessarily better than the seats they replaced.

In this case they are. The two times I've flown into LHR on a 77W I've left on a 744 and a 772. No comparison in terms of Y comfort.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11451 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 17):
Many of the 'Mid J' configured 744s, the type operated by BA to SYD, are not and will not be fitted with the BA "New First" product. However all of BA's 77Ws are fitted with the BA "New First" product.

This is a moot point, though, because all BA services to SIN/SYD already feature New First. I'm sure there are occasional substitutions, but these are no more of an issue with BA than any other airline.

The upgrade here is for W/Y passengers. Shockingly, W/Y passengers are important for serving this market profitably, and BA needs this new product to compete with other airlines who are all offering latest-generation products in Y (QF and SQ spring to mind).

But there's also the fact that the 77W is far more efficient that the 744. It allows them to shed a decent amount of Y capacity without losing too much premium capacity, and that is a good thing in a market that is so saturated. They'll stand a much better chance of making money with the 77W than the 744.

And to throw a spanner into the works, the 77W is far more capable of flying DOH-SYD.


User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5364 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11373 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 21):
far more efficient that the 744

Good point, I hadn't thought of that. Given that Europe-Australia is traditionally a low yielding market, the lower operating costs (especially fuel burn) could make a big difference in this market.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 21):
hed a decent amount of Y capacity without losing too much premium capacity

That's true. They can cut their need to offer $1,800 returns and focus on more premium traffic. They are obviously happy with J/F loads since they've kept front-end capacity steady. Again this will allow a high cost airline to continue to compete in a low yield market.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 21):
the 77W is far more capable of flying DOH-SYD.

Touche  

And the longer that QR is denied additional traffic rights to Australia...



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4431 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11325 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 17):

So the BA 77W is a superior option to the BA 744 in all cabins. Even in Business Class, where the 744 fleet, like the 77W fleet, has the BA Second Generation Business Class seat, the seats in the 77W are fitted with a superior IFE System.

That's a purely subjective view. IFE is not the be all and end all of the travel experience.


There is no finer way to travel than the queen of the skies.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 11022 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting Max Q (Reply 15):
Definitely a downgrade, from the Queen of the skies to a light twin !

Since when is the 777 "light"?

Quoting Max Q (Reply 23):
There is no finer way to travel than the queen of the skies.

And that is a purely subjective view, too. As has been mentioned, for many passengers (W and Y pax account for greater numbers than J pax) the on board product and on board experience is better, thus it is an upgrade. It is not the aircraft type, but the onboard product that defines the comfort and experience. It's just the a.nutters like us that would choose a flight by aircraft type ...



Boeing 777 fanboy
25 seabosdca : ...a light twin that can fly the same payload about an hour farther than the 744?
26 Max Q : Guilty as charged..
27 readytotaxi : My last transatlantic flight in Club my IFE failed after 20mins, full cabin so no chance of seat change.Had 9hrs looking out the window and reading, y
28 Post contains images SKAirbus : Thank god. The 744 is way past its sell by date, rattles around like rattle snake, is much louder and as such far more uncomfortable. Give me a 777-30
29 OEH68 : I definitely prefer the upper deck on a 744 to the dormatory J cabin on the 77W. I'd consider this a downgrade, at least for J pax.
30 Post contains images 9MMPD : According to Airbus the general public go out of their way to fly the A380 Which leads me to my next question. How likely will we seen then BA11/12 u
31 Post contains images crAAzy : Sorry but the privacy afforded by the F cabin on a 747 is second to none. Especially the F cabins on the 777
32 SYDSpotter : Had the opportunity to fly J on the upper deck of a SQ 744 a few years ago (whilst they still had the mighty 747 in service) and it was by far the mo
33 eta unknown : SYD 744 to 77W... it's the beginning of the end...
34 jfk777 : Maybe its time for BA to do soemthing different to beat Emirates at its own game. How would the 77W work if the flight was nonstop LHR to Perth ? Wit
35 AIR MALTA : Don't think so... The 77W product is better than that of the 744... The capacity is pretty much the same... This is BA's answer to QF/EK tie-up and t
36 skipness1E : Waste of a B77W I reckon. Perth is frankly in the middle of nowhere, and frankly BA is no more likely to beat Emirates to Australia than Emirates is
37 steve6666 : Sorry but after "suffering" seats 1A and 1K on CIVS and BNLS in the last two months, I would far rather have had VIIS or STB[x]. I would have had no
38 capri : I wonder if 777 flight crew lobbied for this route? Are there any 744 flight crews not happy about this?
39 RyanairGuru : I sincerely doubt that the pilots' wishes were even considered. It's all about cutting costs and improving yields
40 madhatter : Is the 77W World Fleet crew or the new MidFleet? If it's the new MidFleet then surely that would create a rather large saving on crew costs in itself
41 RyanairGuru : I take it you are referring to Worldwide and Mixed Fleet? The 77W can be operated by either, flights are allocated by route not aircraft type. The onl
42 na : 744 to 77W is certainly no "upgrade". That would be the A380. If it comes to capacity the 77W is even a downgrade. Its bad for the high-yield passenge
43 bluesky73 : With further moves to T5 and T1 do you think BA might move out of T3 as not that many flights from there and when I fly from there it is usually only
44 madhatter : That's the one!! Knew it was something M and W related!
45 CXB77L : How is replacing an aircraft with an older on board product with an aircraft with the latest on board product not an upgrade? It's not the aircraft t
46 cv990coronado : Maybe the last chance for the route. If the much lower fuel costs and reduced number of Y class seats doesn't work with a 77W then what will? Perhaps
47 9MMPD : So with the 77W replacing the 744 to SYD that ends BA 747 operations to Australia after how many years?
48 slinky09 : Doesn't LHR-SYD use up effectively three planes at a time given the duration and turnarounds? How many 77W s does BA currently have, or will have next
49 BAW217 : Lots of people here obviously didn't know that British Airways sent the B777-200ER to SYD until the end of March this year. Which is when it went back
50 Speedbird741 : As the 77W will be replacing the 52J 747-400's that operate BA15/16, there will be a reduction of 41 World Traveler seats, an increase of 8 World Tra
51 aamd11 : Can this even be considered a downgrade/downguage? This isn't the first time BA have used 777s on SYD... I don't know the specifics, but BA were sendi
52 RyanairGuru : I guess they can just switch some aircraft around. Off the top of my head HKG takes up 2 frames and ORD is still operated by a 77W. They could switch
53 Viscount724 : And 15% more cargo space and much lower fuel burn. And in terms of weight, MTOW of the 77W is about 100,000 lbs. lighter than the 744. The difference
54 G-CIVP : "For regular First and Club World passengers it will be a downgrade without doubt. There is simply no substitute for the nose or the upper deck of the
55 boysteve : OK, I understand there will be cost savings on a crew fleet change, but what is the % saving in operating costs? And my operating costs I mean all co
56 TC957 : I see this move as a considerable commitment to the route and an on-board product upgrade. Remember a daily LHR-SYD will use up 3 new 77W aircraft whi
57 Darksnowynight : Yeah........... Wait, what??!! Light twin? What twin, where, is heavier than a 77W?? Fair enough. Any book by Peter Hamilton and/or window is all the
58 Post contains images RyanairGuru : Oh I agree entirely. I'm not advocating that they actually move SYD to Mixed Fleet. Indeed I have entirely selfish reasons for hoping that they never
59 VV701 : More often than not - 18 occasions out of 31 during last October - BA15 has been operated by one of the twelve BA 'Mid J' 744s that are still and wil
60 Bill142 : It's not an upgrade it's a down gauge.
61 tonystan : Personally I think this is great news for the route. This is a low yield route for BA and also uses the most resources taking a single aircraft out of
62 BNE : The end will come eventually but it still might be 5 - 10 years away, I am sure BA still have a good market for premium passengers and slightly small
63 AIR MALTA : I rather think that BA and MH will set up a kind of JSA where they will cooperate for flights from Europe to Australia. This way BA can keep their si
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