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Drunk Passenger Sentenced To Life In India  
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6617 posts, RR: 35
Posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 13972 times:
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I thought I would share this:

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=41457894&opt=0

Initially my thoughts were "good riddance" and I was glad that finally an authority did something about these all too common jerks. Especially since he claimed to have a knive. I´m not too clear on wether he had it or not, though.

But then I started thinking that life in prison is excessive. Particulary since he uttered the threat while intoxicated. Maybe a decade would be enough, but life?

Let the discussion begin.

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5312 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13739 times:

I bet he wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition.

User currently offlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 739 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13716 times:

If it were his third felony in many US jurisdictions...

User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1867 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13621 times:

I also thought life was excessive. but I don't know what are norms for sentencing there.

User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5164 posts, RR: 43
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13567 times:

There is no excuse ever ... but I do remember that the main reason people drink before getting on an airplane is because they are terrified, and that is the only way they can get on an airplane.

btw, you may want to consider changing the heading. It almost sounds like the sentence ... is life in India.

Drunk Passenger in India, Sentenced to Life ... might sound better.  



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinegolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 830 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13438 times:

This is really excessive. Under IPC even culpable homicide which is equivalent to manslaughter some times gets a reduced sentence. Usually life in prison is for really serious crimes.

This sentence must be in a lower court and in all probability will not stick. On appeal the sentence will be either commuted to time spent in custody or entirely thrown out.


User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13372 times:

If he had simply been drunk and disorderly he might have received a lesser sentence. But he did claim to have a knife and threaten to "hijack" the aircraft. Creating a false belief and fear is a serious matter.

But in India, depending on any minimum term direction given by the judge, a life sentence may only mean a term of 14 years as a convict becomes eligible for parole. I expect that his lawyers will be lodging an appeal.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 4):
It almost sounds like the sentence ... is life in India.

LOL. I thought the same thing. I know that life in India (like anywhere else) can be tough but I'd hardly call it a sentence.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13275 times:

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 2):

If it were his third felony in many US jurisdictions...


The three strikes law, signed by President Clintion, applies to all U.S. jurisdictions, not just some or "many".



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinebrahmin From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13071 times:

The three strikes law is only in California.

User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6617 posts, RR: 35
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13055 times:
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Quoting longhauler (Reply 4):
Drunk Passenger in India, Sentenced to Life ... might sound better.

Mods, would you please change the title to the above suggestion?

Quoting golfradio (Reply 5):
This sentence must be in a lower court and in all probability will not stick. On appeal the sentence will be either commuted to time spent in custody or entirely thrown out.

Good point. Still, I bet the guy is not a happy camper tonight. In Mexico "life" at the most means 60 years for kidnappers, and 40 for the most serious crimes. A long time, still.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 6):
If he had simply been drunk and disorderly he might have received a lesser sentence. But he did claim to have a knife and threaten to "hijack" the aircraft. Creating a false belief and fear is a serious matter.

Yes. I think making the claim that he had a knife and the threat to hijack make this much more significant than simply being "unruly" Still, I find life to be too much. Not knowing the rules in India, of course. Intoxication should be a mitigating factor I would imagine.

I have no sympathy for the guy, mind you. But I just think life is too much.


User currently offlinebrahmin From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13022 times:

I think that a Life sentence in India is about fourteen years. The Indian stete is right to come down on this kind of terrorism.

User currently offlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 739 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 12874 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 7):

The three strikes law, signed by President Clintion, applies to all U.S. jurisdictions, not just some or "many".

That one would apply to violent/serious felonies under federal jurisdiction, not all felonies.


User currently offlinebrahmin From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 12823 times:

The three strikes law is not a Federal law. it is a state law.

Three strikes law
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the criminal justice law. For Internet disconnection policy, see Graduated response. For other uses of the term "Three Strikes", see Three Strikes (disambiguation).
Three Strikes Laws are statutes enacted by state governments in the United States which mandates state courts to impose 25 years to life sentences on persons convicted of three or more serious criminal offenses. In most jurisdictions, only crimes at the felony level qualify as serious offenses and typically the defendant is given the possibility of parole with their life sentence. These statutes became very popular in the 1990s. Twenty-four states have some form of habitual offender laws.
The name comes from baseball, where a batter is permitted two strikes before striking out on the third.
The three strikes law significantly increases the prison sentences of persons convicted of a felony who have been previously convicted of two or more violent crimes or serious felonies, and limits the ability of these offenders to receive a punishment other than a life sentence. Violent and serious felonies are specifically listed in state laws. Violent offenses include murder, robbery of a residence in which a deadly or dangerous weapon is used, rape and other sex offenses; serious offenses include the same offenses defined as violent offenses, but also include other crimes such as burglary of a residence and assault with intent to commit a robbery or murder.
Contents [show]
[edit]History

The practice of imposing longer prison sentences on repeat offenders (versus first-time offenders who commit the same crime) is nothing new, as judges often take into consideration prior offenses when sentencing. However, there is a more recent history of mandatory prison sentences for repeat offenders.[1] For example, New York State has a Persistent Felony Offender law that dates back to the late 19th century. But such sentences were not compulsory in each case, and judges had much more discretion as to what term of incarceration should be imposed.
The first true "three strikes" law was passed in 1993, when Washington state voters approved Initiative 593. California passed its own in 1994, when their voters passed Proposition 184 by an overwhelming majority, with 72% in favor and 28% against. The initiative proposed to the voters had the title of Three Strikes and You're Out, referring to de facto life imprisonment after being convicted of three felonies.[2]
The concept swiftly spread to other states, but none of them chose to adopt a law as sweeping as California's. By 2004, twenty-six states and the federal government had laws that satisfy the general criteria for designation as "three strikes" statutes — namely, that a third felony conviction brings a sentence of life in prison, with no parole possible until a long period of time, most commonly twenty-five years, has been served.
[edit]Enactment by states

The following states have enacted three strike laws:
In 1974: Texas[3] PF Chap 12 shows the 3 strike law only changed the charge to a federal crime. Unlike the following states, where three convictions meant automatic life inprisonment
In 1993: Washington[citation needed]
In 1994: California[4], Colorado[citation needed], Connecticut[citation needed], Indiana[citation needed], Kansas[citation needed], Nevada[citation needed], North Dakota[citation needed], and Louisiana[citation needed]
In 1995: Arkansas[citation needed], Georgia[citation needed], Maryland[citation needed], Montana[citation needed], New Jersey[citation needed], New Mexico[citation needed], North Carolina[citation needed], Pennsylvania[citation needed], South Carolina[citation needed], Utah[citation needed], Vermont[citation needed], and Wisconsin[citation needed]
In 1996: Florida[citation needed], Tennessee[citation needed],and Virginia[citation needed]
In 2006: Arizona[citation needed]
In 2012: Massachusetts[5]
They are formally known among lawyers and legal academics as habitual offender laws.[6] They are designed to counter criminal recidivism by physical incapacitation via imprisonment. A person accused under such laws is referred to in a few states (notably Connecticut and Kansas) as a "persistent offender," while Missouri uses the unique term "prior and persistent offender." These terms are used even though all of the offenses could occur in one incident.
[edit]Application
The exact application of the three strikes laws varies considerably from state to state. Some states require all three felony convictions to be for violent crimes in order for the mandatory sentence to be pronounced, while California mandates the enhanced sentence for any third felony conviction so long as the first two felonies were deemed to be either "violent" or "serious," or both.
[edit]Effects in California

Violent crime, but especially homicide, has fallen in the Los Angeles area, as well as other areas of the southland—Los Angeles's 2010 homicide count was 297, less than a third of the 1992 high of 1,000 homicides.[7] However, this may just be a correlation and not causal, as violent crime has also fallen in other areas of California where the three strikes law is not enforced. It should also be noted that punishments for homicides are extremely harsh, resulting in extremely long sentences, life sentences without the possibility of parole or even the death penalty, even for the first conviction, overshadowing any deterrent effect of the three strikes law.
However, there is some evidence that criminals on their last strike are more desperate to escape from police and therefore more likely to attack police.[8][9] This does not reveal whether or not the criminals in question were or were not more desperate and willing to kill prior to their last strike.[10]
[edit]


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 12781 times:

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 11):
Quoting brahmin (Reply 12):
Quoting brahmin (Reply 8):

Then what bill did President Clinton sign into law around 1995-ish?



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13551 posts, RR: 100
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 12740 times:
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Since this was a hijacking scenario, while harsh, I understand the sentence. Note: I do not think being drunk is an excuse for anything other than sleeping with a person 'below one's normal standards' or puking in trash cans.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 9):
I have no sympathy for the guy, mind you. But I just think life is too much.

Understood, but how would you have felt if your family were there? If this was the individual's first offense, I agree. But if the person had a prior history... No sympathy and no worries.

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 2):

If it were his third felony in many US jurisdictions...

By the time someone has committed 3 felonies they have been convicted of, there is typically a few dozen they got away with. I don't care if the 3rd felony is minor, anyone convicted of a felony *after* two priors is not worth worrying about.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 6):
a life sentence may only mean a term of 14 years as a convict becomes eligible for parole. I expect that his lawyers will be lodging an appeal.

I hope he has better lawyers for the appeal.


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6617 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 12700 times:
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Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
Understood, but how would you have felt if your family were there?

It really should not matter how I feel, though, should it? I would probably hate the guy, of course, and I´m glad I´m not in that position, but the justice system is what it is. Maybe in some countries they take into account the familiy´s feelings but not in most other places I´m familiar with. The law hands down sentences pretty coldly without thinking about anything else but what is written in the code.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
If this was the individual's first offense, I agree. But if the person had a prior history... No sympathy and no worries.

I wish I knew those details, but I don´t.


User currently offlineRamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 12699 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 13):
Then what bill did President Clinton sign into law around 1995-ish?

You're probably thinking of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent...me_Control_and_Law_Enforcement_Act


User currently offlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 739 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 12691 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 13):
Then what bill did President Clinton sign into law around 1995-ish?

What the last guy linked to, but that's federal sentencing, so it's moot for a lot of crimes.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9755 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 12462 times:

Life for wielding a knife? One cannot be sentenced what "could" have happened, one can only be sentenced for what actaully happened.

This ruling is ridiculous. One can argue about what he would have got in Germany - 2 years on probation, but life?



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineushermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2969 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 12234 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 18):
Life for wielding a knife? One cannot be sentenced what "could" have happened, one can only be sentenced for what actaully happened.

This ruling is ridiculous. One can argue about what he would have got in Germany - 2 years on probation, but life?

Totally agree.
This is way overboard.
What's next, prison for thought crimes?
Not excusing what he did, which was absolutely stupid, but come on.
Are those people who were trying to take over that plane in TRV all gonna go to the slammer for life as well?
Don't forget, they were actually physically moving towards the cockpit and NOT drunk (from what is reported at least). That seems a lot worse of an offense to me.
BTW, how did that guy manage to get a plane on to the plane... just sayin'.



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3284 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 11886 times:

Seems like the judge went overboard here - I understand zero tolerance and advocate it highly - that could have been in the form of lifetime ban from taking any flight or train or public transport (for instance), coupled with a couple of years of jail time. But a life sentence seems like an overkill, that is given to convicted murderers in India - and in this case there were no deaths (thankfully).


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User currently offlineAccidentally From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 643 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 10116 times:
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Just wanted to say that this punishment is incredibly excessive. He surely deserved some kind of punishment, but geez this is nuts. I think this kind of thing happens often here in the US too...life sentences for being caught with marijuana, but a child rapist gets ten years. Absolutely crazy.


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User currently offlinemanny From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9005 times:

Good way to get sideline the STUPID from the human gene pool!

User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2972 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7909 times:

Quoting Nimish (Reply 20):
Seems like the judge went overboard here - I understand zero tolerance and advocate it highly - that could have been in the form of lifetime ban from taking any flight or train or public transport (for instance), coupled with a couple of years of jail time. But a life sentence seems like an overkill, that is given to convicted murderers in India - and in this case there were no deaths (thankfully).

The Delhi High Court gave this judgement, it is likely that the Supreme Court will reduce it, but couple it with a lifetime flying ban. The guy was returning to DEL from GOI on a 6E flight was more than a little tipsy and apparently loudly announced that he was a part of the IC 814 hijackers, as good as saying that you are a Taliban terrorist IMHO and also claimed that he had infected needles. Given that hit-and-run drivers get out in four years most of the time, this is overkill. But while the judgement could well get reduced this headline will put wannabe idiots who say such things in their place.

Every few weeks there are cases of people calling up airlines in India claiming there are 'bombs' on board - often disgruntled idiots who missed their flights (sometimes former lovers have called claiming their ex-partner is a terrorist) and I believe these clowns ought to be put in prison for a while as well.



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User currently offlineasctty From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2008, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7621 times:

One thing for everyone to remember - You have to consider what will happen if you break the law in the presiding country. Behave whilst you are abroad or suffer the consequences, even if they are considered to be extreme by your home standards. It is OK to have a drink before boarding and on the plane, but if the crew consider that you are putting the other PAX at risk stand by for some severe punishment. Life in jail is of course a bit much, but what should the tariff be? That's up to the country where you are arrested.

25 HAWK21M : Probably to set an example so others are deffered from trying out the same.
26 aeroblogger : The life sentence made the headlines. By the time the sentence gets reduced, the media will have moved on. An excellent way to send a message to the p
27 PanHAM : Yes, but you should consider how this headline falls back on India in the world media. There must be something wrong with the court system in India if
28 aeroblogger : He was not sentenced for what could have happened - he was sentenced for threatening a hijacking, which has severe penalties considering the threat I
29 PanHAM : while at diminished responsibility and the keyword is "threatening" . He did not know what he was talking about.. In simple words, it does not count.
30 Post contains images Darksnowynight : This can happen in the United States too. Attempted Homicide is a convictable offense here. Shame that logic doesn't have flip side here. Sure would
31 PanHAM : This guy was "threatening", not "attempting". He did not injure anyone.
32 RyanairGuru : Right. Without actually being on that flight we don't know what he said, but I don't think it is far fetched to assume that the threat lacked suffici
33 Quokkas : I agree that the sentence does appear a bit steep but as I pointed out above, life does not mean life as parole usually means a much shorter term and
34 Post contains images gauravpai : totally agree just what i was thinking...make an example of this guy and wen the court (supreme) hears the judgement i will be surpised if its more t
35 Post contains images PanHAM : I love that understatement would you agree with me, that this drunkard, in Germany and most other European countries, would not serve a single day in
36 Post contains images Quokkas : Guilty of a classical education,as charged, M'Lud. That would surely depend on whether the prosecuting sergeant was wanting to get home early to watc
37 Cricket : In the US they could have even sent him off to Guantanamo. Europe might be chilled out, but other than the UK you folks haven't really known what it
38 ushermittwoch : Try Spain or Italy (back in the 80's). They had their fair share of bombings... So has Germany for that matter. But those incidents happen more or les
39 Quokkas : An interesting comment and when earlier today I did a search for reportage in the West, not a single newspaper had picked this case up. Indeed, some
40 AustrianZRH : While I do agree that the sentence in this case is way exaggerated, the sentences pronounced in Western Europe are often a bad joke. Like that rapist
41 Post contains images aeroblogger : The penalty for communicating information which potentially endangers commercial flight safety is a life sentence as per the law. The judge does not
42 AR385 : That is your opinion. Where you live, according to the law, it may not be an excuse. I don´t know. In many other places it is a mitigating circumsta
43 HAWK21M : The Drunks should know the laws too, before drinking......The law applies to all.
44 SA7700 : This thread will be locked as it generated into an off-topic debate about anything from global warming into a political debate. Any posts added after
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