Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Airbus's Biggest Mistake  
User currently offlineNorthwestMSP From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1781 times:

I was thinking about this, although it can apply to any other aircraft manufactuer, what have been Airbus's biggest mistakes, that have helped allow Boeing to gain an increased market share.

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 850 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1491 times:

Not fair at all!!!!
Boeing Comercial have been around for 70 years???
Airbus 30?
"GOOD WORK, AIRBUS and kick ass" Smile/happy/getting dizzy))))



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineAirbus380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1459 times:

Airbus has made no mistakes.

User currently offlineJuul From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1449 times:

Well, let's see...

The A340-200 wasn't exactly a hot seller.
The A310 should have gotten a larger wing, as this is what kept it from effectively competing with the 767ER versions.

That's pretty much all I can think of.


User currently offlineFlpuck6 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2122 posts, RR: 30
Reply 4, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1419 times:

Airbus hasn't been competing against Boeing long enough to say they've made any mistakes.

Although I cannot back this up with my own techinical explanation, I have been told by reputable people that the A340 doesn't have a great climb and cruise speed relative to the 747 or the 777.

They're pretty much coming up hand in hand with Boeing, if not suprassing them. I love watching this market competition.

-Chris



Bonjour Chef!
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1407 times:

Yup, the original short body A340 and the A310 where lemons. The former more then the latter.

The big refuse to support any SIA A-340 that Boeing took as a trade in, also was a media nightmare for them.

As is their refusal to admit to deficencies in the flight system on their aircraft.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlinePtica2000 From Slovenia, joined Nov 2000, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1390 times:

Airbus is still making a big mistake. They haven't made a real 757/767 competitor.

A380 is also under a question.


User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1372 times:

Biggest mistake Airbus made was in their A340-200/300 program putting the sluggish CFM56-5C engine instead of the 40,000lb thrust P&W 2000 or RR RB211 series used on the Boeing 757.

User currently offlineGerardo From Spain, joined May 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 31
Reply 8, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1334 times:

A mistake was surely the A340-200, which only got 28 orders, IIRC.

In my opinion, it was also wrong to offer the A330 only with 217t MTOW. THis was of course part of the initial product strategy: A330 for medium haul, and A340 for long haul. On the other hand, the newer versions of the A330 - the -200 and the -300 with 230t MTOW - seem to be good selling products.

Another mistake could be the lack of an aicraft, which would fit between the A321 and A332.

Gerardo




dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
User currently offlineBA DC-10 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1322 times:

Well...it hasn't made too many mistakes...Boeing is more than twice the age of Airbus, yet Airbus is now equalling and even suppasing the orders Boeing get.

The A340 was a bit of a mistake, but hey, Boeing did the same thing with the 747sp.

Also maybe not creating a viable replacement for the A300/A310.

I dunno how anyone could class the A380 as a mistake!??


User currently offlineEGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12443 posts, RR: 35
Reply 10, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1302 times:

Er, i think the A321 is a direct competitor to the 757, well maybe not the -300..

Regards

Dan


User currently offlineJoni From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1285 times:


Not having a plane between 321 and 332 isn't a "mistake" as such, more of a choice. Airbus doesn't have the money to develop all possible planes, and they made the choice to develop the 318, 345/6 and, of course, 380 instead.

In hindsight, the 342 was probably a project that cost them more than they made from it, so that's one error to start with.


User currently offline777-200LRpilot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1296 times:

Boeing will counteract whatever Airbus can come up with the the 744LR.

User currently offlineDelta-flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2676 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1267 times:

Airbus380: Airbus has made no mistakes.

Pride goeth before a fall.

Pete



User currently offline767-332ER From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1259 times:

The A321 was built to become a competitor with the 757, but the A321 does not come close to competing with the 757. It was just not as good an airplane as the 757.


Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
User currently offlineJuul From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1265 times:

777-200LRpilot,

Thanks for your insightful and to the point post, which is a real contribution to this discussion.... NOT!

767-332ER,

I'm curious: What is it that makes the A321 'not as good an airplane' as the 757?


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1248 times:

The A321 does not have the performance nor range to match the 757, and seats less people. The A321's only advantage is commonality with the A319/A320, other than that, the 757 has the edge.

Airbus's big mistake is not making a good replacement for the A300/A310. The A332 is too heavy to fly the medium and shorthaul routes that the A300 is great on.


User currently offlineBoeing747-400 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1260 times:

Juul,

I figured you would be curious to 767-332's post.

I'm curious: What is it that makes the A321 'not as good an airplane' as the 757?

Seriously Juul, THINK ABOUT IT. Look at performance, sells figures, etc. The 757 may not be a better aircraft in your opinion. But to many airlines, it is.

The A321 is Airbus's 757 competitor, needless to say, the 757 is obviously a better plane for airlines. So, I would say that the A321 is not a mistake, but a failure compared to the 757. The A300/310 were not mistakes, again, more airlines thought the 767 is a better aircraft and they failed to compete with the 767 at a good rate. I think Airbus's biggest mistake is the A380, which has a good chance of killing Airbus itself. Just my 2 cents.


User currently offlineDeanBNE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1238 times:

*LOL for a mistake the A310 sold well.

*the A321 is more comparable with the 739 than the 752

*whilst the A342/343 could have benefited from a greater range and more powerful powerplants, this aircraft was invaluable to AI in gaining experience manufacturing a quad-jet. Interestingly, the 744 sales began its sales slump around the time of the A340 first flew

If any Airbus jetliner was to be a mistake my vote would be for the A340-200 (~27 sales)

Cheers


User currently offlineJuul From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1232 times:

Boeing747-400,

An airplane being better or not depends not solely on it being heavier, being able to fly further, or any of these things. The A321 is only partly a competitor to the 757, and clearly indeed does not compete with it for the longer segments. And, in my opinion, it was never meant to do that. Note that this kind of range for a narrowbody is mostly needed in the US domestic market. Not surprisingly, this is where the largest numbers of 757s are. The US majors operate over 500 757s, or more than half the worldwide fleet. Most of these (e.g. DL, NW, AA, UA, UPS) chose the 757 years before the A321 entered service. In fact, if you take a close look, you'll see that most of the large 757 customer chose the aircraft beore the A321 showed up.

"Look at performance, sells figures, etc",

Comparing sales figures isn't really fair is this case, as the A321 only entered service over 10 years after the 757...
Since then, sales have been roughly equal, I believe (A321 sales are currently at 407)

Greetings Big grin (BTW, long time no see...  Wink/being sarcastic )


User currently offlineCritter592 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1206 times:

Airbus's Biggest Mistake

A310... That plane in my opinion is too fat, too ugly, and has too many fuel leaks


User currently offlineGt1 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1201 times:

I would say that Airbus hasn't made "mistakes" that have allowed Boeing to increase market share, so much as they have done alot of things right to increase market share.

Yet, like everyone, they have made some mistakes. I think the biggest current mistake is an A380 with the cockpit on the main deck, which will most likely prevent loading cargo on the freighter version through the nose, as do the 747F, C-5 and the An124.

Other mistakes include, the CFM engine on the A342/A343 , not enough range on the A310 and A300-600, and some control law issues with the fly-by-wire and auto pilot systems.

From my experience, the biggest mistake they made with my company, was support/parts. They won't let you engineer your own repairs, and the parts are expensive and they get them to you when they want to, not when you need them.

But, overall, Airbus is an impressive story with a great product line. They are real competition for Boeing. And I'm a Boeing guy.



User currently offlineSQ325 From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 1451 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1192 times:

The sidestick is a mistake but that is the only one.

Airbus got more orders then Boeing this year.
Their products are economic, and more and more traditional Boeing carriers buy Airbus products. That says all I think
We'll see how the A380 will work.
regards SQ


User currently offlineIainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1177 times:

The sidestick is liked by many pilots, the only mistake they have made is not starting sooner!
Iain


User currently offlineSQ325 From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 1451 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1171 times:

"The sidestick is liked by many pilots"
and disliked by many!
regards SQ


25 Post contains images Mark_D. : Biggest mistake's not having a physically-varied-enough product line, to please spotters! But, seriously, that's not much of a mistake. Carriers are f
26 Mark_D. : I think as time goes on the sidestick will go the way of the glass cockpit. Particularly for longhaul airliners, where it`s more of an ergonomics iss
27 GDB : The A321 is just a growth version of the A320, some competion with the 757 at the lower end of the market, but 757 dates back 20 years and has bigger
28 RC Pilot : The sidestick I think it would be kind of neet to use that rather than the flight yoke. Plus you normaly only have one hand on the yoke most of the ti
29 Cba : Boeing747-400, the A380 will not hurt Airbus, but don't be surprised if citizens of the EU see a large tax increase if it fails.
30 GDB : Yeah, we are really wetting ourselves over here waiting for that tax bill. Airbus is such a drain on our economy. All those quaint little European nat
31 Donder10 : HAHAHAH GDB.....Talking of commies will Bud Selig resign considering how well low payroll teams are doing?
32 Donder10 : You even admitted in one of youre previous posts that you prefer Boeing.Stop writing such overgeneralised statements with with you have no evidence to
33 Post contains images Klaus : GDB: Yeah, we are really wetting ourselves over here waiting for that tax bill. Airbus is such a drain on our economy. All those quaint little Europea
34 RayChuang : I think Airbus' decision not to use the RB.211-535 or PW2037 engines on the A340 really cost it lots of sales. Otherwise, the A340 could have cruised
35 DatamanA340 : Airbus made no such a mistake, that made Airbus lose the market. How many years Airbus made such a great sales? It's not more than 10 years. And from
36 Hamlet69 : As with the Boeing thread, I must apologize for being late to comment. But, interesting topic none the less. Airbus' Biggest Mistakes 1) Underestimati
37 Post contains images 9V-SVA : I wouldn't be suprised that the A380 would fail, it would be like the Concorde, where many airlines rushed to buy it but cancelled it later. If the A3
38 Travellin'man : Just curious if anyone thinks it's either Airbus' or Boeing's mistake let's say 10 years ago not to have gotten into the sub 100 seat plane market whi
39 DatamanA340 : 9V-SVA: Although 380 sells not well as Airbus thought, it's quite well unless several customers cancel orders. It's sold faster than 340 of 10 yrs ago
40 Post contains images Cfalk : Airbus' biggest mistake: Making the floor level in their planes higher than in comparable Boeing products, in order to increase space available for ca
41 Teva : Nothwest, you say: " was thinking about this, although it can apply to any other aircraft manufactuer, what have been Airbus's biggest mistakes, that
42 CYKA : Regarding the A340 The A340 is not underpowered. It was ment too be as economical as possible while braking airlines free of ETOPS constraints. Unike
43 RayChuang : I think one fast way to revive A340-300 sales is to prod CFM International into building a 38,000-39,000 lb. thrust version of the CFM56 that is deriv
44 WN700Driver : Well, hmm where to begin... Actually most of the airbus' that I have had the privilage to have driven performed adequately, but driving them has alway
45 Adria : I think that Airbus really schould start making plans to built a new aircraft in the 250 seat category.the A330-500 didn't seem interesting by the cus
46 Donder10 : WN700DRIVER- you are 21-25 according to your profile.You are based in Baltimore and fly for Southwest.And yet you have flown many of the Airbus fleet.
47 NorthwestMSP : Maybe he flew for a foreign airline and just moved to BWI with a job at WN? Or possibly he's a 13-15 y.o. pretending to be a grown man?
48 Post contains images B744 : Further to the comments about the A340 being underpowered, I read on another site recently that the A340 is the most powerful aircraft in the 'Aircraf
49 D L X : "I doubt if 757 will get any really big new orders, so it would be silly for Airbus to chase that market with an all-new aircraft. " Whoa there, GDB!
50 Authority : Going into the airplane business.
51 Post contains images L-188 : A340 is the most powerful aircraft in the 'Aircraft with 5 APUs category
52 WN700Driver : Donder, believe what you want. The fact remains, the 343 is quite very sluggish & tempermental at best. No amount of not believing me will change that
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
I Just Made The Biggest Mistake Of This Vacation posted Mon Jul 11 2005 22:13:24 by Zweed
Branson: Not Starting UK No-frills Biggest Mistake posted Fri Oct 18 2002 11:23:56 by Capt.Picard
Airbus's Biggest Mistake posted Sat Sep 1 2001 15:50:27 by NorthwestMSP
Boeing`s Biggest Mistake? posted Fri Aug 31 2001 19:58:34 by Tristar4ever
United Becomes Airbus's Biggest Client posted Fri Mar 16 2001 06:00:15 by United Airline
The Biggest Order Book In Airbus History posted Fri Jan 26 2007 19:21:28 by Mortyman
Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake posted Mon Jun 26 2006 06:48:09 by Leelaw
Mistake On The Airbus A318 Website posted Tue May 16 2006 17:46:04 by Irobertson
NGC:MegaStructures=World's Biggest Airliner Airbus posted Mon Oct 3 2005 03:07:25 by Upbnsfrrfan
Biggest Airbus Customers posted Sat Nov 27 2004 22:34:48 by LY7E7