Boeing757fan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2141 times:
Gulfstream N408QS of Executive Jet Aviation flew her body back... Why didnt she fly on one of these in the first place? If I had the kind of money she has, I would always fly in a corporate jet. I understand they crash also, but still.
Delta777-XXX From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1017 posts, RR: 8 Reply 4, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1954 times:
I heard on the radio here in Atlanta that she was not even supposed to be on that plane. They said that her and all her crew were supposed to flying a different plane. I haven't read it anywhere online though. Anyone else know about that?
Also, does anyone have any pictures of the funeral?
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29514 posts, RR: 59 Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1930 times:
Yes they should have chartered a bigger aircraft.
From what I understand they have computed that the 402 was 805lbs below max before any of the nine people got on board. That means in order to be under weight each person could weigh only 77 lbs. The news reported that one of the men on the flight, a bodyguard, is estimated to weigh in at 300 lbs.
From what I have been hearing on the news it sounded like the passengers chartered the smallest/cheapest A/C that they could find. Then they should up with more people/baggage then they told the charter company. A lot of people pull that S$&% when the charter aircraft.
Sometimes you have to say no, and risk losing a customer. It sounds like that didn't happen in this case.
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CactusA319 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2918 posts, RR: 27 Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1919 times:
"If you have that type of fame wouldn't you fly in an aircraft that is required to have a single engine positive rate of climb, and can carry the loads you require?"
Not everybody knows about planes the way we do. They probably just think it's like a car, hop in and fly and hopefully it don't crash. Like L-188 said, they probably went on the cheap and chartered the smallest plane they could get that would fit them all and then brought more crap than could be flown by the plane. What do they know about weight and balance on light aircraft.
All along I've been saying they should've chartered with a reputable charter company, not some fly-by-night outift that this appears to be. It didn't even have to be a corporate jet. A King Air would've done fine.
PanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9 Reply 8, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1906 times:
>>If you have that type of fame wouldn't you fly in an aircraft that is required to have a single engine positive rate of climb, and can carry the loads you require?
I don't think single engine positive rate of climb was on her mind when she boarded the plane.
Somebody probably said "here's the plane, lets go home" and the pilot probably said "alright let's go" and that was it.
If weight was in fact the factor. The I think when the pilot was doing the preflight he should have activated his go, no-go decision making skills he learned in private ground school. Especially for that long of a flight.
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Boeing757fan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1902 times:
Thats not the case, the majority of businesses know there are corporate jets.... In this case her record label, promoters etc which probably uses a Quarter Share aircraft regularly... Take businesses like Emerson Electric, Motorola, Amoco, Sony... They surely know the difference between a small twin prop and a Falcon.
Miller22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 711 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1862 times:
They were supposed to take a metro the next day, but Aliya didn't want to wait so they contracted a second rate carrier.
Also, in respect to all pilots, investigators should only have the same amount of time the pilot had to avoid the crash, to decide whether or not it was pilot error. The pilot only had 3 seconds to make a decision which could easily be 50-50, and every analyst in the country has years to say the pilot did the wrong thing and deface his honour by saying it was pilot error.
He took off over-gross, but who wouldn't? A singer is desperate to take a trip you've done countless times and could do in your sleep. Not only is she insistent to leave now, but she also insists on taking all of her equipment. Its easy in hind-site to say he shouldn't have gone, but realistically any pilot in that situation would have. The pilots who wouldn't, would be out of a job rather quickly. Thats the way it is.
The cause of this crash was an engine failure compounded with capitalism. His company wanted to make money and wanted the publicity of carrying a singer. The pilot guessed that the flight would be safe, and he chose the odds. 3% chance he crashes if he goes, 99% chance of losing his job if he refuses to go. He was unlucky.
Tragic that Aliyah was on the airplane. But before you blame the pilot of killing her, remember that he had a family too, and hardly wanted to die.
Type-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4725 posts, RR: 20 Reply 11, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1846 times:
Sounds like she had "get there itis".
One thing I have seen myself is someone charters an aircraft say for five people, but while the aircraft is enroute to the pick up stop a few freinds decide to come along. Sometimes this can be accomodated, sometimes it cannot. Remember, most crashes don't come from one single error, it is a build up of errors as we have seen in this case. It is up to the pilot to comply with the limitations of the aircraft.
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SegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1828 times:
You guys may want to hit www.sun-sentinel.com and read some of Ken Kaye's articles. He is one of the best aviation journalist I have come across and does a lot of homework.
A few points...
1. can you GET a Gulfstream jet of any size into MHH? (Marsh Harbour)...
2. I don't think that a company had physically chartered the aircraft per se. I think the pilot was "leasing" the plane and did this independent of any "charter" operator... it just happens to be that the plane belonged to an operator based out of Lantana, Florida...
3. He wasn't certified to fly the plane. Go to sun-sentinel.com and read about it
Miller22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 711 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1761 times:
Thats very interesting about rumour saying it was the pilots first day, and about the charter situation. I had heard the pilot had been in trouble before, but don't remember what for. I agree with type-rated that a string of errors is almost always the case in an accident. This one was obviously no exception.
CactusA319 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2918 posts, RR: 27 Reply 18, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1693 times:
That's not my point. Of course CORPORATIONS are going to go with jets and/or fractional ownership instead of a twin prop. But a singer and her entourage on their own on a tropical island wanting to go home now...they probably took the first thing they could find to make the short hop instead of waiting for a larger "safer" aircraft, regardless of what her record label usually flies.
Oldelwood From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1678 times:
hey guys if you read the sun-sentinel the engines have been checked out and there was nothing wrong with either one! both were running normal.the plane was way overloaded! the pilot was not certifed to fly a 10 seat 402! this was nothing but pilot error!