Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why Didnt Aaliyah Fly On This In The 1st Place?  
User currently offlineBoeing757fan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2797 times:



Gulfstream N408QS of Executive Jet Aviation flew her body back... Why didnt she fly on one of these in the first place? If I had the kind of money she has, I would always fly in a corporate jet. I understand they crash also, but still.


 Sad




21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineIainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2669 times:

I just read the article on Yahoo and though exactly the same. If they had paid for this in the first place she would still be here!
Here are some a.net photo's of that GIV.


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © AirNikon




Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © AirNikon



Iain


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29839 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2671 times:

There is nothing wrong with prop planes.

Just like anyting they are going to refuse to go up when you have them overloaded by an estimated 1/2 to 1 ton.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineBoeing757fan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2646 times:

Here we go! I wish you would just read the post. Iain and I never said there was anything wrong with a prop plane. Now, some of those services may not take care of their aircraft as good as others.




I AM FLYING ON A PROP PLANE EARLY TOMORROW MORNING, IF I SERIOUSLY THOUGHT THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG WITH A PROP PLANE, DO YOU THINK ID BE FLYING ON IT?

I would feel much safer on a corporate jet, especially a Quarter- Share type outfit, their maintenance is superb.

1) The aircraft was over weight... Pilot error. He departed.

2) Pilot had some discrepancies stating he wasnt even supposed to be flying.

3) He may have been high?



BTW I have seen this aircraft before. Times like this I wish I kept track of where I saw it.




User currently offlineDelta777-XXX From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1017 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2610 times:

I heard on the radio here in Atlanta that she was not even supposed to be on that plane. They said that her and all her crew were supposed to flying a different plane. I haven't read it anywhere online though. Anyone else know about that?

Also, does anyone have any pictures of the funeral?

Hank


User currently offlineIainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2594 times:

If you have that type of fame wouldn't you fly in an aircraft that is required to have a single engine positive rate of climb, and can carry the loads you require?
IAin


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29839 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2586 times:

Yes they should have chartered a bigger aircraft.

From what I understand they have computed that the 402 was 805lbs below max before any of the nine people got on board. That means in order to be under weight each person could weigh only 77 lbs. The news reported that one of the men on the flight, a bodyguard, is estimated to weigh in at 300 lbs.

From what I have been hearing on the news it sounded like the passengers chartered the smallest/cheapest A/C that they could find. Then they should up with more people/baggage then they told the charter company. A lot of people pull that S$&% when the charter aircraft.

Sometimes you have to say no, and risk losing a customer. It sounds like that didn't happen in this case.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineCactusA319 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2918 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2575 times:

"If you have that type of fame wouldn't you fly in an aircraft that is required to have a single engine positive rate of climb, and can carry the loads you require?"

Not everybody knows about planes the way we do. They probably just think it's like a car, hop in and fly and hopefully it don't crash. Like L-188 said, they probably went on the cheap and chartered the smallest plane they could get that would fit them all and then brought more crap than could be flown by the plane. What do they know about weight and balance on light aircraft.

All along I've been saying they should've chartered with a reputable charter company, not some fly-by-night outift that this appears to be. It didn't even have to be a corporate jet. A King Air would've done fine.




User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2562 times:

>>If you have that type of fame wouldn't you fly in an aircraft that is required to have a single engine positive rate of climb, and can carry the loads you require?
IAin<<

I don't think single engine positive rate of climb was on her mind when she boarded the plane.

Somebody probably said "here's the plane, lets go home" and the pilot probably said "alright let's go" and that was it.

If weight was in fact the factor. The I think when the pilot was doing the preflight he should have activated his go, no-go decision making skills he learned in private ground school. Especially for that long of a flight.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineBoeing757fan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2558 times:

Thats not the case, the majority of businesses know there are corporate jets.... In this case her record label, promoters etc which probably uses a Quarter Share aircraft regularly... Take businesses like Emerson Electric, Motorola, Amoco, Sony... They surely know the difference between a small twin prop and a Falcon.



User currently offlineMiller22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 721 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2518 times:

They were supposed to take a metro the next day, but Aliya didn't want to wait so they contracted a second rate carrier.

Also, in respect to all pilots, investigators should only have the same amount of time the pilot had to avoid the crash, to decide whether or not it was pilot error. The pilot only had 3 seconds to make a decision which could easily be 50-50, and every analyst in the country has years to say the pilot did the wrong thing and deface his honour by saying it was pilot error.

He took off over-gross, but who wouldn't? A singer is desperate to take a trip you've done countless times and could do in your sleep. Not only is she insistent to leave now, but she also insists on taking all of her equipment. Its easy in hind-site to say he shouldn't have gone, but realistically any pilot in that situation would have. The pilots who wouldn't, would be out of a job rather quickly. Thats the way it is.

The cause of this crash was an engine failure compounded with capitalism. His company wanted to make money and wanted the publicity of carrying a singer. The pilot guessed that the flight would be safe, and he chose the odds. 3% chance he crashes if he goes, 99% chance of losing his job if he refuses to go. He was unlucky.

Tragic that Aliyah was on the airplane. But before you blame the pilot of killing her, remember that he had a family too, and hardly wanted to die.


User currently offlineType-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2502 times:

Sounds like she had "get there itis".
One thing I have seen myself is someone charters an aircraft say for five people, but while the aircraft is enroute to the pick up stop a few freinds decide to come along. Sometimes this can be accomodated, sometimes it cannot. Remember, most crashes don't come from one single error, it is a build up of errors as we have seen in this case. It is up to the pilot to comply with the limitations of the aircraft.


User currently offlineSegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2484 times:

You guys may want to hit www.sun-sentinel.com and read some of Ken Kaye's articles. He is one of the best aviation journalist I have come across and does a lot of homework.

A few points...

1. can you GET a Gulfstream jet of any size into MHH? (Marsh Harbour)...

2. I don't think that a company had physically chartered the aircraft per se. I think the pilot was "leasing" the plane and did this independent of any "charter" operator... it just happens to be that the plane belonged to an operator based out of Lantana, Florida...

3. He wasn't certified to fly the plane. Go to sun-sentinel.com and read about it  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



User currently offlineJiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2480 times:

Aaliyah told a report a month ago that she dreamed that someone tried to kill her, and when she was running, she felt herself she was flying.

User currently offlineIainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2480 times:

Miller22 rumour has it, it the was pilots first day of work, talk about the pressure of having a celebrity in the back!
Iain


User currently offlineBoeing757fan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2476 times:



Marsh Harbour has a single runway 9/27 and it is 5000', hard surfaced, and in good condition. 5000ft is plenty long enough for a any Gulfstream.







User currently offlineL1011 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1685 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2453 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I've landed and taken off from there in a DC-6B with no trouble, and that is much larger than a Gulfstream, so a Gulfstream shouldn't have a problem with the runway length.

Bob Bradley
Richmond, VA



Fly Eastern's Golden Falcon DC-7B
User currently offlineMiller22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 721 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

Thats very interesting about rumour saying it was the pilots first day, and about the charter situation. I had heard the pilot had been in trouble before, but don't remember what for. I agree with type-rated that a string of errors is almost always the case in an accident. This one was obviously no exception.

User currently offlineCactusA319 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2918 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2349 times:

757Fan:

That's not my point. Of course CORPORATIONS are going to go with jets and/or fractional ownership instead of a twin prop. But a singer and her entourage on their own on a tropical island wanting to go home now...they probably took the first thing they could find to make the short hop instead of waiting for a larger "safer" aircraft, regardless of what her record label usually flies.



User currently offlineOldelwood From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2334 times:

hey guys if you read the sun-sentinel the engines have been checked out and there was nothing wrong with either one! both were running normal.the plane was way overloaded! the pilot was not certifed to fly a 10 seat 402! this was nothing but pilot error!

User currently offlineIainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2327 times:

^^ It is a bit early for your last statement.
Iain


User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2278 times:

Boeing757fan

5000ft is not enough for G4/G5 at MTOW, but could be enough with payload penalty.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why Can't We Do This In The U.S? posted Thu Jul 17 2003 10:03:24 by Jhooper
Why Does UA Only Fly To LHR In The UK posted Wed Nov 7 2001 17:27:53 by Arsenal@LHR
SkyValue Takes On Southwest In The Chicago Area posted Mon Nov 27 2006 09:19:02 by QXatFAT
US/DL Merger: Remember This In The Future posted Thu Nov 16 2006 20:35:10 by Wingspan
What's This In The EA A380? posted Tue Oct 31 2006 09:33:56 by AirbusA346
JetBlue Was Just On CNN - In The Money posted Sat Jul 8 2006 20:00:13 by JetBlueNYFL
Nonstop Polar Flights On Narrowbodies IN The 1960s posted Thu Jun 8 2006 19:21:18 by Jonno
PHL To ANC On US In The Future? posted Mon May 29 2006 05:58:39 by Jdwfloyd
What Is This In The Cockpit? posted Sun Apr 2 2006 15:48:19 by Alberchico
Why Didn't DL Order More T7's In The Good Old Days posted Tue Mar 28 2006 10:27:20 by Gokmengs