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United Replacing B747 By A350-1000?  
User currently offlineAF185 From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2012, 262 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 23578 times:

UA is said to be studying the A350-1000 to replace its fleet of B747. The challenger is the B777-X, but considering the program was postponned to early 2020's, the A350-1000 seems to have a good shot here...
How many B744 need to replaced?

Quote:
United Continental Holdings Inc. (UAL) is in talks with Airbus SAS about buying A350-1000 jets, a step toward the first U.S. purchase for the planemaker’s largest twin-engine model, people familiar with talks said.

The world’s biggest airline is considering the 350-seat plane to replace older Boeing Co. (BA) 747s, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the talks are private. United already has agreed to buy 25 of the mid-sized A350-900 variant under a 2009 deal that included 25 of Boeing’s 787 Dreamliners.

Rest of the article: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...s-a350-to-replace-boeing-747s.html

[Edited 2012-10-31 18:59:02]

[Edited 2012-10-31 19:06:31]

91 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 2437 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 23548 times:

Aren't the A359's meant to replace UA's 747s?


A landing EVERYONE can walk away from, is a good landing.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31399 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 23502 times:
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Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 1):
Aren't the A359's meant to replace UA's 747s?

That was the claim at the time, but I am sure UA has the ability to swap models.


User currently offlineLostSound From Canada, joined May 2012, 253 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 23336 times:

The A350-1000 is getting a lot attention from airlines recently, it wouldn't be surprising if UA upgrade their order to the -1000 variant. Especially if Airbus bring EIS ahead of the -800 model.


"Our hands are full, our lives are not"
User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 23124 times:

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 1):
Aren't the A359's meant to replace UA's 747s?

Yes, but for their heavy trunk routes the A359 is on the smaller side. To add A350-1000 to the fleet makes fully sense.

Edit: Spelling

[Edited 2012-10-31 20:43:56]


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User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 22757 times:

Using B788 configuration as a template, United should be able to configure the A350-1000 with nearly 300 seats in BusinessFirst, Y+, and Y layout. B777X with the B788 template should yield about 325 seats with 9-abreast Y, and about 350 seats with 10-abreast Y.

User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2805 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 22554 times:

Quoting LostSound (Reply 3):
The A350-1000 is getting a lot attention from airlines recently, it wouldn't be surprising if UA upgrade their order to the -1000 variant.

Adding the 35J would make even more sene, the existing order for 359 takes some 25% less fuel on a trip then UAs 772ER and seats 3 rows more (cabin length 52m vs 49). As UA don't run 10 abrest Y as far as I know the 359 would be a very rational replacement for the 772 by 2015 (or when UA 359 deliveries would start). If they upgrade the slots to 35J they would have to fly those 25% diff for much longer, Boeings possible replacement for the 772ER (78J) in say 2018 or later (B has said 2017ish but realisticly this can be another year).

Why would UA voluntarily delay the process to lower fuel costs when they already have good delivery slots for a 772 replacement and could suitable ones for a 744 replacement (I would say a 777X is equally possible there but 100% dependent on when B makes it available).

I see this kind of things forcing Boeings hand on the 777X thinking.



Non French in France
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5946 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 22155 times:

Well, this should put and end to all of the "Everyone knows that the 359 is replacing the 744, so quit bringing it up" attitudes.

This kind of surprises me; I really thought they'd go 359 for that size, and then a larger 777X for the high-end.
I'm still not sure I see this as a final, complete answer to the question; part of me still says that they could handle a small fleet of 748's or 380's, and make money with them.


User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 22142 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 7):
part of me still says that they could handle a small fleet of 748's or 380's, and make money with them.

Apparently UA thinks the same, according to the article:
"United’s A350-900 order came before the merger, so a new deal would expand Airbus’s foothold at the airline and may pave the way for an eventual purchase of A380 double-decker aircraft. Senior vice president for finance, Gerry Laderman, said in an August interview that the airline couldn’t “dismiss the potential” of such a large jet, given the size of its network."



SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 21981 times:

How many seats does the 744s have today at UA? The A350 is really a 9Y frame and 350 seats is a very tight squeeze. To go from a 744 to a A359 is a huge down sizing movement IMO. I can see them replacing 772s, that is the least efficient 777 model in service.

But the 744s, really? If EKs A351 cabin would seat just 317 seats, how many seats would the A359 seat?! Boeing's replacement for the 772 is the 7810, I think the 777-8X is a still born, there is no place for it really. And I think they should keep the 77W size and do a new wing, internal stretching and new engines, the 9X will have few customers. The 77F with new wings and engines would probably secure the freighter market too, there is really no need for 2 777-X models, ng the 77W and the F model. That would certainly save some weight and add efficiency.

787-10+ a 77W ng would cover the 300-400 market fine. And a 77F ng would secure that market so well Airbus would not even try.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13114 posts, RR: 35
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 21751 times:

Quote:
To go from a 744 to a A359 is a huge down sizing movement IMO.

That's why UA is talking about the A351  
Quoting sweair (Reply 9):
Boeing's replacement for the 772 is the 7810

But the 787-10X lacks the range of the 772 (and the 744).

Boeing projects the 772 as a 314 seater while Airbus projects the A359 as a 314 seater too. The UA 772 has a 276 seat configuration, a UA A359 would probably do the same.

[Edited 2012-11-01 03:01:08]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 20944 times:

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 8):
Apparently UA thinks the same, according to the article:
"United’s A350-900 order came before the merger, so a new deal would expand Airbus’s foothold at the airline and may pave the way for an eventual purchase of A380 double-decker aircraft. Senior vice president for finance, Gerry Laderman, said in an August interview that the airline couldn’t “dismiss the potential” of such a large jet, given the size of its network."
Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 7):
Well, this should put and end to all of the "Everyone knows that the 359 is replacing the 744, so quit bringing it up" attitudes.

Exactly that...the comment by GL dismisses the talk of the 744 replacement solely being about the A350, which was all pre merger UA talk. All the cards on the deck IMHO....A380, B748i etc, etc.

Will be very, very interesting to see how this all plays out.


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 20873 times:

The A359 is no proper 744 replacement at all. Its ideal to replace the 777-200 though, and UAs 777s (the oldest 777 fleet worldwide) are not getting any younger as well, the first should be due for retirement past 2015, exactly when the A359 come in.

User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4944 posts, RR: 40
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 20409 times:
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Quoting LostSound (Reply 3):
The A350-1000 is getting a lot attention from airlines recently,

Yeah, as the configuration firms up more and more as the program is progressing rapidly, and since the delivery times are coming down at present, the offering becomes more and more attractive for airlines.  . Though a possible delivery in 2019 is still very far away in the future for an A350-1000 delivery.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 6):
Adding the 35J would make even more sene,

I completely agree with you.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 6):
I see this kind of things forcing Boeings hand on the 777X thinking.

And agian I completely agree with you.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 7):
Well, this should put and end to all of the "Everyone knows that the 359 is replacing the 744, so quit bringing it up" attitudes.

It most probably does. But I believe the contracts signed for the A359 will allow for an upgrade to the A351. Just as the B788 can in most cases be swapped for B789's.  .

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 8):
"United’s A350-900 order came before the merger, so a new deal would expand Airbus’s foothold at the airline and may pave the way for an eventual purchase of A380 double-decker aircraft. Senior vice president for finance, Gerry Laderman, said in an August interview that the airline couldn’t “dismiss the potential” of such a large jet, given the size of its network."

Now that is a very interesting statement, isn't it? Who would have though words like these coming from the new UA, where the former CO board-members presumably only favor Boeing products.   

Quoting sweair (Reply 9):
and 350 seats is a very tight squeeze.

That all depends on the seating configuration. How many first, how many business and how many economy class are they thinking about? That will determine or not if the seating becomes a very tight squeeze.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 10):
But the 787-10X lacks the range of the 772

Yes, it does. So Boeing will need to do something on t=either the B777, on or an all new Y3?   

[Edited 2012-11-01 04:52:23]

User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1089 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 20351 times:

Quoting na (Reply 12):
The A359 is no proper 744 replacement at all. Its ideal to replace the 777-200 though, and UAs 777s (the oldest 777 fleet worldwide) are not getting any younger as well, the first should be due for retirement past 2015, exactly when the A359 come in.

With 70+ 772's, I'd guess we'll see a multiple a/c replacement solution. Many of CO's are 2000+ build and are in no need for replacement anytime soon so they are candidates for a later Boeing solution. There are some UA builds that will need replacement as noted.

A switch from the A350-900 to the A350-1000 would make sense for UA only if they are not going VLA. I'd guess their TATL JV partner who operates the 748i could give them some insight on that. One thing for sure, UA's 744's need replacement soon as the product is not competitive w/other carriers and costly on fuel.

I don't see any way UA orders the A380 - they are frequency fans (4x EWR>LHR on a 752) not VLA fans.

All we know for sure now is that the 788/789's will replace the 767's.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8496 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 20176 times:
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IF a loyal airline like Continental orders more A350 its should be a shock in Seattle, Cathay should have been the first. IF a second large operator of 777 orders the A350-1000 its time to make the 777-9X a priority. The 787-10 can wait considering the 787-9 is not even flying yet. The 737 Max is fairly defined by now. Boeing needs to maintain a competitive large long range transport.

User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1715 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19456 times:

Ever since the UA-CO merger I expected the A350-1000 to replace their 744s, so this is no surprise to me. I don't think UA can afford to wait for the 777X. Their first A350s (does anyone know when they are expected to arrive?) will be 900s, but as soon as the -1000 will be available UA will take them, they can easily swap slots.



Quoting ferpe (Reply 6):
as far as I know the 359 would be a very rational replacement for the 772 by 2015 (or when UA 359 deliveries would start). If they upgrade the slots to 35J they would have to fly those 25% diff for much longer, Boeings possible replacement for the 772ER (78J) in say 2018 or later (B has said 2017ish but realisticly this can be another year).

But UA didn't plan to replace any 777 with airplanes they have on order now. However, now that the 787-10 seems near, it should be a logical replacement for UA's 777s.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 10):
But the 787-10X lacks the range of the 772 (and the 744).

The 787-10 should be able to do 90% of the current 77E routes. For transantlantic routes and to South America it should be perfect... For Transpacific the A359 will be used.



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently onlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12179 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19072 times:

I'll bet Boeing, who's offices are close to United-Continential will be sending people to talk about the B-777-9X, B-787-10, and B-747-8 to UA.

User currently offlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1822 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 18152 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 9):
How many seats does the 744s have today at UA?

374


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 17948 times:

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 18):
374

OK quite low for a 420 seat frame? Applying this to a A350-1000 they will have no where near 350 seats on the A350 as Airbus markets it? Quite the reduction in capacity?!


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 17946 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 17):
I'll bet Boeing, who's offices are close to United-Continential will be sending people to talk about the B-777-9X, B-787-10, and B-747-8 to UA.

And even more ... you hope and pray.
 

Anyway .. time will tell, but this kind of remind me of the AA ordeal with the NEO and MAX.
Maybe Boeing will rush to the table with an upgraded 777 and UA will end up ordering both that and the A350-1000. How excellent it would be.
Hmm ... that would suit you not so good I guess.
  


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 17781 times:

I wonder if they would convert some or all of their existing A350 orders to the A350-1000 or would these orders be new. Also as mentioned they are looking at the A380 to some degree, I could see UA utilizing perhaps 8 A380s. Not much more though.


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User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31399 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 17707 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 10):
But the 787-10X lacks the range of the 772 (and the 744).

It may end up closer than we might think.

At least when delivered, UA's 777-200ERs were not rated for the full 298t TOW nor were their PW4090 engines pumping out 90k of thrust. That may have been addressed once the merger happened, but I am not sure,

Range at MZFW for the 747-400 is 5250nm at 397t, but there are lower MTOWs (down to 363t) so depending on where UA's planes fall...



Quoting sweair (Reply 9):
If EKs A351 cabin would seat just 317 seats, how many seats would the A359 seat?!

Per EK, the seat counts of the A350-900 and 777-200ER are identical at 12F | 42J | 236Y. The A350-900 gives up 6 Business Class and 25 Economy Class seats due to the narrower cabin width, however they can recover that though the ~3.5m greater cabin length. This allows EK to add an additional row of Business Class (6 seats) and two rows of Economy Class (18). The aft cabin of the A350-900 does not taper as greatly as the 777-200ER, so that allows additional seats to be fitted. So by moving around lavatories or adjusting the forward and aft rows, they can fit the same number of seats.


User currently offlineAAplat4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 17466 times:

Well it appears that the A350-1000 is defined enough for Cathay Pacific and United, but not for Boeing who has stated repeatedly that it has time on its side. If the story was leaked with that much detail, then the chances of United placing an order for the larger A350 is pretty high I would guess.

User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1888 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 17312 times:
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In looking at UA's fleet, the 788 equates to the 763 but with longer range and more lift capacity. The 787-10 can certainly replace the 772 given it can do almost all of the routes (those that can't could be flown by the 789). The difference between the two (35x and 787-x) is weight and some lift capability.

In the very large twin category, UA and CO missed the boat by not ordered the 773ER which could have saved them a ton of cash versus the 744 in fuel and maintenence costs. This article is a shot across the bow for Boeing.

The possible specs for the 777-x would seem to be better overall but it won't be available for eight years or so. UA doesn't want to wait that long to replace the 744's and the 359 order is locked in and I'm sure they have the ability to convert that to a 351 order. Could Boeing still grab this order? Its possible but it depends on the 777-x and whether they will attempt to bridge things with a short term lease of 773's or trying to entice a 748 order (with big discounts).

Airbus might win in large part due to the fact they have a plane which which should be ready at least two years before a 777-x.

Edit: Airbus touts the 351 as an 8,400 nm jet with a three class layout of 350 people. Yes that's a bit less than the 744 but the lower operating costs should make up for that. Also, Airbus will offer a 10 across layout for this plane. I'd think UA would utilize that seating layout to maximize loads.

[Edited 2012-11-01 07:52:44]

25 as739x : Will not happen. The infrastructural cost in the hubs that would use it most (SFO/LAX) would far outweigh the profitability. In addition, its just to
26 sweair : Do they really need to enlarge the 77W as its current capacity is above the A351 already. Just put new wings, engines and internal stretch on the 77W
27 RDH3E : Just keep in mind the 744's are 3 class (essentially 4ish) birds. Any new frames will probably come in 2 class which will be more dense relative to t
28 sweair : Will a 2-class cabin make as much profit? How is the industry developing here, are we seeing more 2-class than before?
29 airbazar : But keep in mind that the post merger UA, has a more hubs than the "old UA" which gives them the ability to create a lot more fragmentation. More fra
30 EPA001 : More and more we are seeing 2-class cabins. First class is slowly becoming a rare offering although I am sure some airlines will continue to offer a
31 sweair : If even the 77W is too big that is saying a lot and still some talk about A380s for UA.. I guess 330-340 seats is the largest capacity needed for ame
32 jreuschl : Anyone see them ordering 748I?
33 sweair : But Y+ seems like its growing no? Y,Y+ and J is common IMO.
34 Roseflyer : When UA ordered the A350-900, there weren’t enough year-round routes with enough demand to sustain a 747 to justify keeping an airplane of that size
35 Post contains images EPA001 : I don't have any read data on that. But I guess it is. First class is not that necessary anymore since the level of comfort in Business Class has imp
36 phxa340 : A 77W is probably the biggest aircraft they need, likewise a 744 for DL and UA do fine. An A380 would work wonders if DL UA and AA didn't have multip
37 zeke : As far as I was aware, all the contacts for the -900 gave airlines the choice of either the -1000 or -800 after they had their minimum number of -900
38 STT757 : The wouldn't use them at LAX, which is going from 777s to smaller 787s on some routes. They would use them at SFO and maybe ORD. SFO is already ready
39 FriendlySkies : A lot of people are speculating that UA would upgrade the A359 order to the -1000 model. Recall that UA has 50 options on the A350 (same as the 787),
40 DocLightning : When you get into large aircraft, it's not like single-aisle aircraft, where US airlines need hundreds of frames. At present UA operates 24x744 and 7
41 SonomaFlyer : Wouldn't the 787-10 be cheaper to operate than the 359 while having a range sufficient for most of the 772 routes? I'm not vested in one type or the o
42 ytz : I still don't see how the A359 fits them. To me looking at their fleet the 762s and 763s should be replaced by 788s. The 764s and some 772s should be
43 LHCVG : As much as I hope UA (and AA) don't abandon F completely, I feel like it's moving to where only a handful of carriers in each alliance will have it,
44 Post contains links kaitak : Here's a report from Bizjournals: http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/b...continental-holdings-in-talks.html Although I wouldn't be surprised if UA con
45 RDH3E : Just FYI, we have a rep from each, Boeing and Airbus, on site full time during the business day. Correct, there would be a massive penalty for cancel
46 BlueSky1976 : In my opinion, United will end up operating a mix of 787-8/-9/-10 and A350-900/-1000s, eventually. No VLAs for this one, though I wouldn't be surprise
47 Stitch : UA has 50 options for the 787, so I could see them increasing their 787-9 order from the current 14 because it's a direct replacement for the 777-200
48 SonomaFlyer : The interesting thing about this is the fact that the 350-1000 is much larger than the 772ER. The 351 could certainly be a replacement for the 744 (i
49 Post contains links deltadc9 : Sorry if this has been posted, but Reuters says that Boeing held a closed meeting YESTERDAY with all the 777x potential customers in their artical abo
50 Post contains images ferpe : So it is no coincidence that this leaked the same day , guess Tim Clark had called some of his friends at UA and asked for a little vitamin injection
51 Max Q : It is, and with the Airbus record of overpromising and underdelivering I would take that with a big grain of salt.
52 phxa340 : That is at spec weight. These birds will more than likely be overweight thus reducing their range.
53 LAXDESI : ......................UA Total(F/J/Y+/Y) B747...................374(12/52/70/240) B772...................269(8/40/104/117)--Version 2 long-haul Both
54 United1 : Judging by the way that UA configured their 788 it will be closer in seat count to a 764 or 332 replacement. It will probably take over (or be used t
55 RDH3E : I wouldn't expect F class given the recent rhetoric on the subject.
56 Stitch : The 787-9 has the same cabin length as the 777-200 and is wide enough to take Global First in the same 1+2+1 configuration, Business First in the sam
57 Post contains images cosmofly : B potential customers are also A potential customers and they can switch anytime they like. What they like seems to be A350-1000 more than B's 777X i
58 LAXDESI : Perhaps not. If UA were to configure the A350-1000 with J, Y+, and Y, the following layouts are possible: ......................UA Total(/J/Y+/Y) A35
59 United1 : Again judging by the way that UA configured the 788 (it only seats 5 more passengers then the 2 class international 763s do.) I think the 789s are go
60 as739x : SFO has only 3 A380 capable gates with only 2 having the jetbridge for the upper deck. One of the A380 capable gates is on the A concourse leaving it
61 Post contains links and images ferpe : Here the payload-range for the discussed aircraft, this is at spec OEWs. Add about 5t for a realistic cabin/IFE and another 5t for catering, real crew
62 LAXDESI : Some posters have suggested that it would take as much time to develop and produce longer long haul B787 as B777X. An 80m B787 with 9-abreast Y shoul
63 legacyins : Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought SFO's A380 gates are .. G101 and A1 and A9. A1 not having the third jet bridge. On a side note, can any of the exi
64 Post contains images cosmofly : The plus is that it will be an opportunit cost gain because new 787 wing means further advancing a cutting edge product. In addition, the engineers h
65 Viscount724 : I think WN would disagree.
66 Max Q : Great shame to see the end of four engine Aircraft at UA if this is true. Especially if their biggest is an Airbus ! Lets hope they will, at least rec
67 airproxx : I sometimes think that aviation in definitely dead...
68 MarcoPoloWorld : Definitely, and SFO will no doubt upgrade gates if need be to accommodate the A380, as the entire Int'l Terminal was built with a superjumbo future i
69 SonomaFlyer : Thanks very much for the chart Ferpe. I find it amusing to say the least that the aircraft manufacturers make claims regarding the range of their airc
70 United Airline : Perhaps they can order more. 15-20 or even more?
71 Post contains images ferpe : They are all using the same basic cabins, the first class seats and business seats are the reclining models from some 10-15 years ago, no suites or l
72 astuteman : No. Any more than the 777-300ER has a 7 900 Nm range. The ACAP for the 773ER records about 168 tonnes for OEW, but most 773ER's in passenger ready co
73 sweair : Well in the EK cabin the A351 would have 317 seats and the 77W has 350+, the Airbus being much lighter and have a lot less seats installed hence bein
74 TP313 : The 350-1000 is a logical choice in the context of the A359 order and options. United executives are there to run a business, not to be fanboys.[Edit
75 ytz : I get what you're saying, but isn't the situation very airline specific? You look at where most routes fall on that chart and buy airplanes according
76 CXB77L : I'd think that if they wanted a 10-across layout, they'd get the 77W/777X as it has a wider cabin. Despite Airbus offering 10-across for the A350, my
77 RDH3E : Huh? According to SMI/J we want airplanes we can use year round, and we cannot justify purchasing a VLA for routes we are unsure will have VLA-type l
78 SonomaFlyer : Thanks for this info. It makes perfect sense now to me why EK is grumpy about the 351. The trouble is, almost all of the other carriers looking for l
79 ferpe : Zeke has described how they do it, the simulate their version of the frame (including their cabin options etc) onto the relevant parts of their netwo
80 astuteman : Unfortunately, I don't think it does. because the original A350-1000 that they actually ordered, and liked, had 400Nm LESS range. Personally, I'd be
81 Post contains images Stitch : He whined about the 747-8 having only an 8000nm nominal range instead of an 8300nm range, yet even at 8000nm, the plane would have allowed a full pas
82 Post contains links LAXDESI : UA to upgrade to A350-1000? Why does Boeing need to negotiate for 787-10 engines if it is a simple stretch? http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...bre
83 Stitch : It would improve the field performance for the 787-9 and 787-10. As I understand it, they're looking at an extra 2k (to 78k).
84 strfyr51 : Ordering the A359 or the -1000 will NOT pave the way for the A380, PERIOD! Not a snowball's chance . . . . . . !! that's John Laehy's pipe Dream. If
85 zeke : The A350 order does not rule the A380 it in or out. A VLA is a different business case, which I do not see UA having at the moment, I do not even see
86 SonomaFlyer : There's been no indication of issues with the T-XWB engine during its development. They had the issue with the T-900 and that issue was addressed. Rol
87 Glareskin : I think United is reinventing itself after the merger. They could use few A380 on heavy Asia bound flights and replace the rest with A350-1000. I kno
88 airzim : United will never purchase an aircraft that cannot be used flexibly across their network at every hub. The A380 is not going to fit at EWR. It has li
89 FWAERJ : There has been talk in the past of upgrading some T1 gates at ORD to handle the A380 for LH, but the city couldn't get a deal done with UA and LH. So
90 AF185 : A bit off topic, but which major US airports have no A380-ready infrastructures besides ORD?
91 SonomaFlyer : You need to define "major" EWR is a major hub for UA and cannot handle the A380. SFO can but has a limited number of gates. LAX can but they are only
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