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Can Virgin America Survive?  
User currently offlineirelayer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1073 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 18971 times:

http://business.time.com/2012/10/25/...lleHongKong/product#prclt-fOXHm21v

We see it again and again...an airline emerges that offers an innovative, quality travel experience being priced out of the market because noone is willing to pay a little extra for it? What can they do?

-IR

108 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4282 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 18973 times:

Personally, I feel Sandy has dealt VA a devistating blow. A good chunk of their transcon flying was into the northeast and that crippled much of their flying, with only a handful of other flights to operate. Considering they are bleeding money, this doesn't help.

User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 18151 times:

Another problem for VA in general -- limited destinations. For me (living in MEM) they simply aren't an option. I am almost forced to DL for any level of frequency to my destinations.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2092 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 17974 times:

VX's problem is that they do not have any region of strength. B6 cut many of their non-JFK transcons and they have extensive routes in the Northeast and from there to Florida and the Caribbean. VX's main hub is at UA's SFO hub where many routes compete with UA. The also have a substantial presence at LAX where both UA and AA claim as hubs. Many transcons also have competition from B6. The regional flights on the west coast have the usual WN problem. UA did not implode, which hurt VX. Helping them are rising costs at WN and B6.

The other factor that the article does not mention is the power of frequent flyer programs. Many business passengers out of SFO will put up with UA because of upgrades and award redemptions, particularly on international flights, along with the ability to earn miles and EQMs on Star Alliance.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5633 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 17926 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 1):
I feel Sandy has dealt VA a devistating blow
Quoting davescj (Reply 2):
Another problem for VA in general

Hate to nitpick, but I think you mean VX. VA is Virgin Australia.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 17826 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 4):

You are right......VX (oops)

I was looking at the VX site. Somethings else I noticed, for good or ill, VX does NOT upgrade elites to F. F is a paid upgrade only (as I understand the site, paid either with $ or points). With UA, DL, AA also having a heavy presence in SFO, that has to have an impact as well.

If you're elite with UA/D/AAL, you already get the Y+ either for nothing or reduced fare.

With UA/DL, upgrades are complimentary for all elites. AA allows cert upgrade and complimentary for EXPL.

If I were going to be looking for upgrades, I would have to consider the free upgrade as part of my overall flying pattern ex-SFO.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 979 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 17772 times:
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They have the same exact product Jetblue has, same market, same aircraft, and just like Jetblue, they decided to set up shop in a very expensive and populated area, Jetblue going with NYC, Virgin with San Francisco..

However there is one HUGE diference, Jetblue is succesfull becasue they started when things were booming... Virgin started operations during very difficult economic times

my 2 cents


User currently offlineROSWELL41 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 785 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 17593 times:

I also believe that VX was counting on a much weaker UAL when they devised their business plan years ago. Perhaps they even envisioned a UAL collapse or abandonment of their SFO hub. Today, the reality is that UAL is stronger and larger than ever. Also, while I concede that their product is very impressive, they obviously cannot command a RASM premium over other alternatives in the markets they serve. They are too much a champagne product for a flying public that largely has a beer budget (reference the profitability of NK and G4).

User currently offlinebluesky73 From UK - England, joined Oct 2012, 322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 17324 times:

Shame to hear VX are not doing well. Must be hard for new start ups in US especially as the large legacy carriers are merging so much. How is JetBlue doing across the pond?

Also shows how fragile the airline business can sometimes be especially in this climate.

Fingers crossed they survive the dip and make good decisions to hopefully pull VX back up before its too late.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5442 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 17272 times:

Virgin selected a niche, and stuck with it, and stuck with it, and continues down the same path. In another time perhaps they would have thrived but timing, as been said a million times, is everything and the road has always been rough for VX. And it sure doesn't look like it's getting any smoother now.

IMO, I would give them a slim chance to still be around in 2014.

bb


User currently offlineProst From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1050 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 17186 times:

Quoting bluesky73 (Reply 8):
Fingers crossed they survive the dip and make good decisions to hopefully pull VX back up before its too late.

Unfortunately, even with their great product, they've never had an 'up' to get back to.

How is it that in the USA we're able to support higher end, middle, and lower end retail, but for airlines, its either Sears or Walmart/DollarTree? Why can't we make a Bloomingdales or Nordstrom airline work?


User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 891 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 17064 times:

VA has 3 serious issues :

1. Lack of a strong network
2. Lack of a strong FFP
3. Lack of of frequencies

These 3 things are very important to the high yeilding business customers looks for. If VX wants to chase the leisure market do it like Spirit or Allegiant.

Simply put - VX's business model is highly flawed and unless they do drastic changes ... no they will not survive. Their losses are increasing in what are supposed to be the most lucrative quarters for airlines - that is not a good thing.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5633 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 16933 times:

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 11):
VA has 3 serious issues :

1. Lack of a strong network
2. Lack of a strong FFP
3. Lack of of frequencies

These 3 things are very important to the high yeilding business customers looks for. If VX wants to chase the leisure market do it like Spirit or Allegiant.

  

And there-in lies their problem. They have developed a high-value product to woo high yield traffic, yet due to the factors you identify above simply aren't able to get those passengers onto their aircraft.

This leaves them with bottom-of-the barrel leisure traffic, yet their costs are too high to profitably shift bargain basement fares.

When they devised their business plan and selected San Francisco I think that they were banking on picking up the yuppy tech crowd - think Google, Apple, Facebook etc. By being quirky and slightly hipster, they probably thought that they could sway these cashed-up young people. What they, apparently, didn't count on was that (a) these are publicly listed multi-national corporations, and need more than just a few frequencies to JFK, IAD and PHL, and (b) that UA weren't going to let some of the most valuable traffic at one of its fortress hubs just waltz off to a competitor.

Unfortunately I feel that their plan was fundamentally flawed from the very beginning...



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineseahawks7757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 16626 times:

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 3):
The regional flights on the west coast have the usual WN problem.

Your kinda forgetting about the other big player with that guy on the tail? I mean they only rule the west coast and are beating WN more and more.   


User currently offlinehmelawyer From United States of America, joined May 2011, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 16531 times:

Another issue is that with their limited route maps they seem to fly a large number of routes that are another airlines hub on both ends. I know this is b/c they want to be in the largest metro areas, but I am not sure those are the most profitable areas. For example, I am located in Austin. I think the VX product would be a good fit with the AUS market and they could get a foothold here (see the B6 trajectory in AUS). Instead the only Texas destination is DFW, where anybody not AA is going to struggle to get an meaningful % of the market.

They are a hub and spoke airline with not enough spokes to gather their somewhat limited market.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 16486 times:

Quoting Prost (Reply 10):
Why can't we make a Bloomingdales or Nordstrom airline work?

We do. It's up in the front of many airplanes. And things beyond that like NetJets.

But coach class air travel is a commodity. It's like gasoline: there are some people who swear up and down that their car will run better on Shell than BP, but at the end of the day, it's mostly the price and availability that counts.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13616 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 16371 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 9):
Virgin selected a niche, and stuck with it, and stuck with it, and continues down the same path.

So did the Donner Party. How'd that work out for 'em, again?  

With their low cost structure, VX can survive, but only if they radically change their strategy and even their product to some degree. If they stubbornly cling to the notion of "If you build it, they will come" they're doomed to fail. Losses of $671M over 5 years simply aren't sustainable.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11712 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 15860 times:

VX's largest issue continues to be, in my opinion, that it is simply too "niche." The clientele that VX is heavily focused on, and for which its product and service offering is optimized, is simply not large and concentrated enough to make an entire airline business model work.

Are there some young, hip, trendy people who are willing to pay a premium for better service, mood lighting, etc.? Sure. But are there enough of them in any one place to support an entire airline catering to them? Outside of a relatively short list of markets, no. That type of clientele is certainly very heavily concentrated in a few markets - certainly SFO, LAX and NYC, plus South Florida, CHI and probably SEA, with some possible fly-ins to LAS. So there you have it - much of VX's network. But their model and market are not, in my view, very scalable beyond that. I do not think an airline so focused on that particular type of client could ever find a viable way of serving say, PIT, or PHX, or BNA, or RDU, even though all of those are places where some - though not enough - of their target customer type live.

VX's Achilles heal continues to be the inherent limitations of its route network driven by the inherently limited scalability of their product.

Quoting hmelawyer (Reply 14):
For example, I am located in Austin. I think the VX product would be a good fit with the AUS market and they could get a foothold here (see the B6 trajectory in AUS).

The problem with AUS is that while it is "hip," perhaps, as markets go, it's not particularly large. The entire market for AUS-California right now is only 10-15 daily flights. Sounds like a lot, but AA has more flights than that just on DFW-LAX, as an example. So the market AUS-California is already well-served, and fragmented, among four different carriers. Is there room for VX in that mix? I'm not sure. Yes, other markets like SFO-LAX have just as much if not more competition, but they're also vastly larger markets. Plus, the comparison to B6 is somewhat irrelevant in this case - while B6 is a great airline with a great product and service offering, they are much more of a "pure" low-fare carrier without premium cabins, full hot meals, etc. and also a generally lower price point, which is probably more attuned to the AUS market, which has not only media, tech and entertainment types, but plenty of shorts-and-flip-flops college kids and families, too.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
We do. It's up in the front of many airplanes. And things beyond that like NetJets.

But coach class air travel is a commodity.

  

Precisely.

The U.S. domestic air travel market is already plenty segmented. Passengers in major markets already have a wide variety of options, at varying service levels and price points. They can buy an economy or premium cabin ticket from multiple airlines.


User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 891 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 15504 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
at the end of the day, it's mostly the price and availability that counts.

Very true , VX's issues are compounded by the fact that US, UA, DL, B6 are all in relatively healthy financial positions to vigorously protect their markets. When VX entered the ORD market, UA and AA responded with 180 R/T fares to LAX. VX had to respond in kind. The difference is that UA and AA (Even though in BK) are large and diverse enough to absorb the losses , VX has no protection like this.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 15068 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 5):
I was looking at the VX site. Somethings else I noticed, for good or ill, VX does NOT upgrade elites to F. F is a paid upgrade only (as I understand the site, paid either with $ or points). With UA, DL, AA also having a heavy presence in SFO, that has to have an impact as well.

Yes, this is a large part of why they don't keep going bankrupt like every other US carrier.

The business model of every US legacy carrier seems to be:

1. Comp the seats which should be earning the most revenue to your most loyal coach seat purchasers.
2. Go bankrupt.
3. Whereas in every other western country you would then be closed down and have your assets split between your staff and other creditors, you can instead........
4. "Reorganise" by stealing your staff's entitlements to reduce your cost base, while the failed managers are somehow permitted to oversee this organised theft in spite of having bankrupted the company.
5. Continue trading with this anti-competitive advantage.
6. Persist with an insane business model wherein you earn no revenue from your First Class seats.
7. Go bankrupt again.

It's extraordinary that in areas with similar sector lengths (Australia, South Africa, Southeast Asia, East Asia) airlines can sell their Business Class seats rather than comp them, and earn their biggest profits from that cabin.

But American consumers seem both unwilling to pay for First Class and to have a sense of entitlement that if they buy enough Coach tickets they have "earned" the right to be upgraded for nothing.

And all American legacy carriers appear to collude in anti-competitive behaviour which leads to effective price-fixing by having quasi-identical upgrade policies, which perpetuate this appalling business model.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5442 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 14946 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 16):
So did the Donner Party. How'd that work out for 'em, again?

Exactly! And as I also said, how about the timing... if the Donner group had crossed The Pass in, say July, things might've worked out a whole lot different (read: better!)

And as I've posted about a hundred times already, VX continues to fly routes to and from SF and LA. Period. With an unbelievable ONE p-2-p route outside of their otherwise blinders-restricted route map of SF and LA to ... (well, now two if we include the amazing PSP-JFK weekly seasonal flight) they stick to THE plan, even as they falter and continue to try to turn a profit.

A niche is a great idea. But at some point, if it ain't workin', how about trying something else!? And IMHO it sure looks to me like it ain't workin'...

bb


User currently offlinecivetfive From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14716 times:

"Speaking of competitors, they have regularly jumped into markets where Virgin America is operating, making it difficult if not impossible for Virgin America to be profitable."

This quote frustrates me. It makes it sound like poor VX is being picked on by bigger airlines looking to cherrypick VX's routes, when in reality its the *exact opposite*.


User currently offlinecosyr From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14198 times:

We were just wondering what happens at SFO if they go under here SFO Terminals If Virign America Shuts Down? (by cosyr Oct 14 2012 in Aviation Polls)

User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 13985 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 19):
Yes, this is a large part of why they don't keep going bankrupt like every other US carrier.

No, the reason they haven't gone bankrupt is that they are fortunate to have investors who are willing to continue to give the airline money. You realize that VX has yet to make a profit during a single quarter in their existence right?


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8573 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 13869 times:

Quoting civetfive (Reply 21):
This quote frustrates me. It makes it sound like poor VX is being picked on by bigger airlines looking to cherrypick VX's routes, when in reality its the *exact opposite*.

That is the beauty of competition.

One of the requirements of legal competition is, you don't try to drive your competitor out of existence through predatory pricing. If you have a clear strategy to bleed VX to death just because you have bigger capital reserves, that would be illegal AFAIK.


25 Viscount724 : The problem is that the passenger's employer is in most cases paying the bill and most U.S. companies don't permit F class fares under their corporat
26 DocLightning : 4. Not growing fast enough.
27 jetblueguy22 : I strongly believe people don't buy first class tickets because they expect to get upgraded domestically. My stepfather is a DL Diamond and gets upgr
28 slcdeltarumd11 : They can surive as long as the investors want to keep pumping them with money. I think its pretty soon to the point where they demand a totally differ
29 AirCalSNA : Their presence is too small and if their FF miles can be used on any major US airline, I haven't heard it. Nevertheless, I like to fly them when I can
30 HiFlyerAS : No other U.S. airline will partner with them. They're all just biding their time, waiting for the ax to fall. This winter is going to be tough for VX
31 alphaomega : Quite a bit of irony here for those that know the full history of VX....its initial start was stalled due to foreign ownership blah blah blah, and in
32 Polot : Not really. While I believe there was some consideration in investing in the eventual JetBlue no serious attempt was ever made to create a Virgin USA
33 Post contains images SANFan : With existing stations in SAN, LAS, MCO, FLL plus south of the border in SJD, PVR and CUN, outside of LAX, VX still hasn't come up with any sensible
34 drerx7 : Agreed. They don't fly anywhere. Not to minimize the destinations they serve buuuttt....c'mon you overfly the heart of the country for the most part
35 iFlyLOTs : I think this is their real issue, they have a grand total of twenty destinations and unless you're going to the west coast there is no reason to fly
36 koruman : Companies are the same in other areas where people DO buy First (or Business) class tickets. In Australia I live in an area equivalent to Washington
37 ytz : On top of other issues, I think they have the wrong fleet type. I think an airline like VX should operate with CS100 and A321NEOs. The NEOs for the lo
38 Polot : Considering that neither of those aircraft are currently flying (and in fact available to order when VX was starting up), what do you propose that th
39 ytz : At the moment? They should be all A321s targetted at major urban centres. That's it. But honestly, I think the business plan is flawed for them. For
40 zippyjet : Does Virgin America fly to IAD or DCA? I'm not sure. If not, they may have some better luck if they expanded into our area whether it be BWI, IAD or D
41 mariner : I have a lot of sympathy with Virgin America in this - and with the airline generally. A fair swag of the authorities to resort Mexico (the snazzier
42 slcdeltarumd11 : Yeah PSP is just pathetic IMHO that they cant think of anything better to try. Isnt a large part of the problem just too long flghts generally? They
43 timpdx : I liked them, and used them a few times on California-Toronto where their product was superior to AC, for sure. The flights I was on were packed (non
44 phxa340 : Considering they can't even fly an A320 profitably transcon , how does flying a larger jet make sense ? Yes to DCA from SFO.
45 MasseyBrown : My wife booked them IAD-SFO-IAD and ended up spending a night at an airport motel on both legs. Never again, she said; so far she has been true to he
46 skycub : Wasn't it once said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? That's what I think
47 ltbewr : Another problem, as with any non-legacy major carrier including WN and VX, is that you are stuck with them for your transportation, you can't transfer
48 lightsaber : VX seems to cater to those who want the perception of luxury without paying for it. The last analysis on VX pointed out they had *zero* routes without
49 Post contains images EA CO AS : Maybe you didn't see my post or read the article in its entirety, but they are a fairly small carrier and they have lost $671M over the past 5 years.
50 dbo861 : While only a seasonal, Saturday only route..they don't have competition on JFK-PSP. Which, btw, has this route started yet?
51 NWADTWE16 : There are FIVE flights a day in each direction and VX isnt exactly known for cancelling flights/Having Maintenance issues or treating people badly so
52 civetfive : Isn't VX also getting to the point where crew and maintenance costs are rising quickly, and without the expansion in ASMs to help offset this?
53 ytz : It is counter-intuitive to be sure. But if they can't generate the necessary frequencies, they might as well go for CASM with the A321. Essentially,
54 drerx7 : Well...good ideas you have there...but I don't think that will translate into $$ and/or it may be too late. CASM is great on a 321 if you can fill th
55 phxa340 : The load factor is in the high 80s , low 90s for their transcon routes ... maybe I should I have been more clear. The extra seats of a 321 would fly
56 enilria : I think you are right. Spirit appeals to a much broader audience than VX. I don't think you can afford to be selective. Actually, at this time of the
57 MaverickM11 : They couldn't survive from day one: their business plan counted on people paying a premium for amenities that no one is willing to pay a premium for,
58 bjorn14 : VNY is strictly a GA airport.
59 Post contains images phxa340 : Wow , just wow. If anything American CEOs of airlines know how to turn a profit in a completely saturated market and somehow generate demand at a pro
60 MasseyBrown : There were two dailies at the time in question; for someone booked on the second flight, there was no fallback. At that time (not long after they beg
61 Post contains images RDH3E : It's the exact opposite of anti-competitive, it IS competitive. If your competitor offers something to take lure your customers away, you offer it to
62 SGAir : If they used SJC instead of SFO, would they have had more success?
63 psa188 : Not exactly. B6 proudly announces "Your first checked bag is always free" while VX charges $25 for the first checked bag. When VX started back in 200
64 cofannyc : Doesn't the story go like this...? 1) VX enters IAH-SFO at 2-3x 2) VX lowers fares 3) UA matches fares 4) UA offers more of the low fares because the
65 mrskyguy : Let's be fair.. VX has changed, but only slightly. Those who know me know that I've been a pro-SWA guy for years. While SWA has retained some of the
66 phxa340 : Nope, very nicely said.
67 MarcoPoloWorld : Sounds similar to my route and experience as well. I was excited about them opening up a crack at the expensive Canada cross-border market, only to f
68 lightsaber : That load factor implies a larger plane is needed. VX needs to keep about 20 seats empty 'in case' of last minute high yield passengers. I think they
69 BlueJuice : The dotcoms proved "we lose money on every sale but make it up in volume" is not a sustainable business model.. High load factors do not mean the rou
70 IndianicWorld : VX seems to be an airline that has tried very hard to deliver an exciting product, but in an ever changing industry, its not enough to find a viable p
71 Post contains links and images lightsaber : I keep coming back to this thread in the hopes someone comes up with an idea to make VX viable. I cannot. I do not wish VX ill will, but there is a re
72 twinotter : A new business losing money, even for a long time, isn't unusual, but the fundamental business model has to make sense and be sustainable. Amazon-dot
73 psa188 : It's interesting that WN has improved its percieved relative position in the airline industry simply by standing still. As the other airlines degrade
74 Post contains links lightsaber : Amazon lost money while somehow paying off debt. Amazon also entered a market early and grew at an exceptional rate. So quickly, they dominated physi
75 PITingres : All I can say is, wow. Just wow. I can think of *so* many things that I'd rather spend $800, or even $200, on as opposed to a marginal (and it really
76 Flighty : It's too bad if people believe that. (Aside from the last statement, which is specious). As shown in this thread (just one of a hundred examples), th
77 Post contains images lightsaber : Now I'm going to contradict prior posts on VX as I do hope they survive as I look forward to the 2016 B6 vs. VX on the NEO. In this corner, flying the
78 koruman : Precisely. So there is no reason whatsoever why the airline should comp you the more expensive product as you are not prepared to pay for it with mon
79 mrskyguy : That's really the million dollar question. VX has made it very clear that they want to compete with the "big boys" on the same playground, so serving
80 Post contains images commavia : No, ours is a market with relatively thin profit margins where all competitors are - by the nature of natural market forces - forced to match any of
81 koruman : Er, no. In most countries, the premium cabins subsidise the economy ones. In your country, the legacy carriers use ancillary charges from economy pas
82 commavia : My mistake on quoting your earlier post. Nonetheless, the point is still moot - different airlines make money different ways. One is not better than
83 Viscount724 : Do you also have a problem with hotels upgrading elite-level frequent guests to better rooms? I spent a night at the Sheraton in Brussels a week ago,
84 koruman : With respect - and I really do respect your posts! - I don't agree. If you look at other markets which include sectors of 2-9 hours, there is a mixtu
85 Post contains images SurfandSnow : I suppose, but this isn't some small obscure airline like Legend Airlines or MAXjet. VX has grown to be a sizable carrier with a great reputation aro
86 Post contains images Polot : VX doesn't have a lot of FF partners at all. Their website lists 3: VA (useless if you are not going to Australia), VS (useless if you don't need to
87 Darksnowynight : Not strictly, no. Operations like NetJets are present, IIRC. That's been my experience as well. Yes. PSP actually has a broader catchment than folks
88 Hmelawyer : Admitted that AUS is not as large as DFW and most of the markets served by VX. That is exactly my point. I think their focus on only the largest hub
89 FlyPNS1 : This is your opinion, not a fact. In my experience, short-haul flights on BA, AF, etc are extremely expensive compared to short-hauls in the U.S. Wha
90 N766UA : Perhaps VX should have stayed on the west coast and built up a decent customer base before gunning for transcons? When I lived in Boston, I had pretty
91 Post contains links ABQopsHP : I surmise that the short answer to this is no. Here is a link to something else that will face them. Delta Goes Wide-body On JFK-LAX Again (by g500 No
92 RDH3E : Since you persist in twisting your personal assertions to sound like facts, I'd just like to present a couple facts: United States: 3,794,101 sq mi A
93 psa188 : Not really. My VX experience is limited to a ride on the JFK-SFO inaugural flight, which I covered for Airliners magazine. VX, naturally, was putting
94 Post contains images Asteriskceo : The -800 has trendy mood lighting.
95 apodino : I was thinking. Back when VX was being founded, they were looking at three markets for the HQ. They looked at BOS, NYC, and SFO and then settled on SF
96 jetMarc : I thought I remember hearing when VX was first starting up something like HQ was going to be in NYC but the central hub in SFO... does anyone else re
97 ytz : Any reason they can't lobby against overturning those restrictions. I'm not familiar. I'm asking what it is that makes VNY "strictly" a GA airport. T
98 ckfred : I was at BOS last month from 8:45 to 6:45 (gave up seat on first flight for vouchers, then delays at ORD). There was a VX Airbus sitting at the gate
99 Post contains images EA CO AS : You have it backwards; it's the consumer that has told airline management - through their purchasing decisions over many, many years - that they want
100 RyanairGuru : To be fair to Koruman, I think he was referring to the lower 48. There is a relatively small difference in size is you exclude AS. I do agree entirel
101 Post contains images mariner : I think that's a very good point. Whatever its virtues, SFO may well be part of the problem for Virgin America. You may not like it, but it is the la
102 PHLwok : My view as a corporate traveler in a large consultancy that has volume based discounts is this: Although they price competitively without those disco
103 freakyrat : All you naysayers here. VX may very well survive. Every time I've flown them out of DFW to LAX and especially on the return LAX-DFW the plane has been
104 TUSdawg23 : VX is an awesome airline in terms of the onboard experience they offer, but as has been echoed on here throughout this thread, price and frequency are
105 EA CO AS : Seriously? You're basing that assessment on how full the flights you've been on were?
106 MaverickM11 : Yep. The terrible ideas came early and came fast. You can buy a completely bundled product on almost any carrier. Airlines haven't told passengers th
107 PassedV1 : Wow, you clearly have no understanding of how a free-market works. VX failure proves we have no competition?! It actually proves that we do have comp
108 Post contains links and images lightsaber : But the issue is the new routes are not profitable. VX has hit a growth wall unless they figure out something new. You are correct. I should have not
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