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Australian Aviation Thread # 65  
User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 676 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6112 times:

G'day and welcome to the Australian Aviation Thread # 65. In the previous thread, the following points were discussed/raised:

* Philippine Airlines expresses interest in commencing Darwin services
* Virgin Australia releases its new campaign - "The romance is back"
* Emirates introduces A380 services to Melbourne
* Qantas confirms schedule changes for its Sydney and Melbourne to London flights
* Qantas confirms cessation of Frankfurt services to now occur October 2013
* Dallas and Qantas' services
* Qantas to acquire 100% of Australian Air Express
* QF ditches interim request to plan and negotiate proposed alliance with Emirates
* Alan Joyce addresses the National Press Club
* Initial concerns about British Airways' future in Australia
* Malaysia Airlines confirms it will reinstate Perth-Kota Kinabalu services from late 2012
* Qantas announces changes to its International Business soft product
* An Air Canada 77L helps the rescue of a stranded Australian sailor
* Qantas announces a $30m upgrade of its Brisbane maintenance facilities
* Article in TravelToday signals a revised MAR13 start of Air India services to Australia
* Melbourne Airport growth
* Qantas' first refurbished 767-300 recommences flying duties
* Alpha's Brisbane catering facility suffers a listeria outbreak
* Update on capacity increases at Brisbane Airport as well as progress of infrastructure projects
* China Eastern mentions that forward bookings to Cairns are lower than expected
* Transaero operates charters from Japan to Cairns with 747s
* Qantas returns to the Gold Coast after a number of years of absence
* Qantas confirms it 767 refurbishment program is tracking well ahead of schedule
* BA reconfirms its commitment to Australia announcing the introduction of 777-300ERs on its Sydney-London services from April 2013 with its flagship First and Premium Economy product
* Burn 115,000 QFF points for a SIM session

In one of the biggest announcements of this year, Virgin Australia announced that it would acquire 100% of WA-based Airline Skywest, as well as a 60% stake in LCC Tiger Airways Australia (both subject to regulatory approval). The same day, Singapore Airlines announced that it would be taking a 10% stake in Virgin Australia.

Australian Aviation Thread # 64

199 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6135 times:

* According to an article in TravelDaily last week, China Eastern Airlines has made the surprise announcement that its Cairns-Shanghai services will expand to an all year round operation in 2013. The Airline only recently was reported as saying that forward bookings on its Cairns services were less than forecast and year round services were in doubt. It would come as no surprise if subsidies were thrown the Airline's way as a sweetner to operate year round services

* Canberra-based Brindabella Airlines has announced it will base one of its 30-seater J41s in Sydney from 19NOV12. The aircraft would be used on its existing Sydney-Cobar services. The Airline currently operates a number of weekly Cobar services and seasonal (read ski season) services to Cooma from Sydney

* Brisbane Airport Corporation will reportedly conduct overlay works on RWY 01/19 from June to September 2013. As a result, the runway will need to be closed between the hours of 2300 and 0500, which as many would be aware impacts on the midnight departure bank for a number of International airlines including EVA Air, China Airlines, Our Airline, Cathay Pacific, Emirates, Singapore Airlines and Malaysia Airlines. It is not yet known what changes the abovementioned Airlines will implement to accommodate the runway closure

* Malaysia Airlines recently operated a number of 747-400 and A330-300 charters through Rockhampton Airport. Let the pictures do the talking!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ApsT8H4eLYU/UJEdE6GPwQI/AAAAAAAANZQ/EE7tbAygdWA/s1600/DSCF0368+.JPG
Photo © and courtesy of CQ Planepotting - Source

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CF5snSDKeDs/UI8cFACQ_UI/AAAAAAAANMo/XqmgZTCx3OM/s1600/DSCF0299.JPG
Photo © and courtesy of CQ Planepotting - Source

On 1 November Adelaide Airport welcomed its inaugural Emirates service (surprised no one has raised this prior!), with 777-300ER A6-EGI touching down at Adelaide Airport at 2105L as EK440.

http://planespottingadelaide.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/A6-EGI-3.jpg
Photo © and courtesy of Planespotting Adelaide - Source


User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 674 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6125 times:

http://www.seeperthairporttransform.com.au/

This is a fantastic site about the new Perth Airport redevelopment finally happening. Exciting times ahead for us here in WA!


User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2000 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6123 times:

Tralee housing development in NSW but under Canberra airport's flight path will impact operations and mean a curfew. SMH

I despair of this state.

Quoting QF175 (Reply 1):
Malaysia Airlines recently operated a number of 747-400 and A330-300 charters through Rockhampton Airport. Let the pictures do the talking!

Before anyone asks - they were military charters from Singapore.



Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6122 times:

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 2):

Still doesn't resolve PER bigger issue... Runway capacity!

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 674 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6119 times:

Also, does anybody know how long this "fast-tracked" A380 gate at PER is going to take? "Within the next 12 months" has been said for about 4 months already. I assume we'll see EK in with a 380 pretty much as soon as it's ready.

User currently offlineBAeRJ100 From Australia, joined Nov 2011, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6121 times:

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 5):
Also, does anybody know how long this "fast-tracked" A380 gate at PER is going to take? "Within the next 12 months" has been said for about 4 months already. I assume we'll see EK in with a 380 pretty much as soon as it's ready.

From what I understand the gate that is being upgraded has been closed and the tarmac outside has been ripped up. I wouldn't be surprised if it's completed along with Terminal WA.


User currently offlineaussie18 From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 1736 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6120 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Air China upgrading one of their SYD flights to B77W starting next month.

http://airlineroute.net/2012/11/05/ca-syd-dec12/


User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3032 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6119 times:

Quoting BAeRJ100 (Reply 6):
From what I understand the gate that is being upgraded has been closed and the tarmac outside has been ripped up. I wouldn't be surprised if it's completed along with Terminal WA.

nearmaps has recent photos (october 17), where you can see the start of the tarmac stripping.

I'd think the A380 gate will be built with the initial works of the Virgin Pier (but first thing finished and ready to be used).

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6120 times:

From thread #64:

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 196):
Was there any announcement, all that is noted in the news is the plan to start paying dividends ASAP - Stating the obvious no?

Not obvious at all that they would be paying dividends in the current environment. This article suggests the exact opposite:
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/trav...-reducing-debt-20121106-28vxa.html


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6121 times:

Any idea what QF's A333 VH-QPI was doing in Muan, South Korea on the 8th of Oct...?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © YoHan HAN - Korea Aero Photos



I'm guessing 1 of 2 things... Diversion... OR... Charter...?

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2948 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6124 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 10):
Charter

Yes. She operated HKG-NGO-MWX-HKG (I'm not sure who for though).


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6116 times:

THE O'Farrell government's plans for Canberra to host Sydney's second airport are in tatters, following the approval of a big housing development in the Canberra Airport flight path, the federal government says.

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/second-...rt-plan-dashed-20121105-28ucu.html

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...olding-pattern-20121109-2933w.html

Looks like its back to the drawing board even though I doubt it was going to happen... Wish this stupid government would make a decision and stick to it!

EK413

[Edited 2012-11-10 02:47:58]


Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 915 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6117 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 12):
even though I doubt it was going to happen.

Agree with you entirely. A thought from left field "Well, if I cant have my airfield plan, then I shall get my housing development plan up and running, no sower grapes, just political pragmatism"



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineeaglefarm4 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 425 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6115 times:

Another Volga Dnepr AN 124F just landed at BNE.The 4th flight in the past 5 weeks.

Garuda looking at resuming BNE in 2013

This was in the Jakarta Post on the weekend

Garuda to receive 24 new aircraft next year
Nurfika Osman, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | Business | Sat, November 10 2012,
11:31 AM
National flag carrier Garuda Indonesia says it will take delivery of 24 new
aircraft at a cost of US$1.57 billion next year to support expansion of its
domestic and international flight service.

President director Emirsyah Satar said in Jakarta on Friday that the
aircraft comprise four Boeing B777-300 Extended Range (ER) aircraft, 10
B737-800 Next Generation (NG) aircraft, two Airbus A330-320s, one A330-300s
and seven Bombardier CRJ1000 NextGen aircraft.

"They will be used to help expand both our domestic and international
networks. As for the B777s, they will replace our aging B747 series,"
Emirsyah said on the sidelines of the Garuda Indonesia Travel Fair 2012 in
Jakarta on Friday.

The B747s that Emirsyah referred to are currently used for the airline's
long-haul routes, such as Jakarta-Amsterdam and Jakarta-Jeddah.

Emirsyah said that Garuda planned to expand its international service to
include service from Jakarta to London in the UK; Brisbane, Australia; and
Auckland, New Zealand; next year. "We expect to open the new international
routes by the end of 2013."

Marketing director Elisa Lumbantoruan said that the airline would fly each
of the routes four times a week by the third quarter of 2013.

"In the future, as we will have more aircraft, we will increase the service
from four times to seven times a week," he said.

Garuda currently operates 96 aircraft with an average age of 6.23 years. The
airline flies to more than 50 destinations domestically and internationally.

Under the airline's Quantum Leap program, it plans to increase its fleet
numbers to 194 aircraft with an average age of 5 years by the end of 2015.

Emirsyah also said that Garuda's low-cost carrier, Citilink Indonesia, would
receive 10 new A320s next year that are worth about $900 million.

The budget airline is expected to field a fleet of about 100 aircraft,
including 50 turboprop aircraft, by the end of 2015.

"We are going to announce whether we will use ATR-72s or Bombardier Q400s
planes by the end of this year. We are still studying both aircraft,"
Emirsyah said.

The turboprop aircraft would be based in eastern Indonesia, as feeder planes
for routes served by Citilink's and Garuda's Bombardiers.

Last month, Garuda officially put into operation a Canadian-made Bombardier
aircraft at its regional hub in Makassar, South Sulawesi to help strengthen
service on its domestic routes.

Four out of the 18 jets that Garuda is expected to take delivery of will
serve routes connecting Makassar and Ternate, North Maluku; Kendari,
Southeast Sulawesi; Mataram, West Nusa Tenggara; and Surabaya, East Java.

The fifth Bombardier, which the airline expects to take delivery of in
December, would enter service from Garuda's hub in Surabaya and connect the
city to one of the world's most popular tourist destinations: Denpasar,
Bali.

According to Garuda recent reports, the airline's total revenues grew 14.4
percent to $2.39 billion in the first nine months of 2012, while net profits
climbed 51.9 percent to $56.48 million.

Its passenger numbers also rose 20.2 percent to 14.89 million, while its
cargo volume surged 18.7 percent to 201,070 tons.



tourismman
User currently offlineaussie18 From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 1736 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6114 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Quoting EK413 (Reply 10):

I believe it did a charter in the lead up to the F1 Grand Prix in South Korea.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5173 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6112 times:

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 14):

It's great to heat that Garuda are considering BNE. I've often though that (along with PVG and PEK) that CGK was the biggest hole in our longhaul network.

From what I've heard, they are now a very good carrier. It's great to see that they are performing well financially as well.


Just to cross-thread... MEL and BNE were suggested in the UA speculation thread as possible 787 destinations. I can definitely see MEL occurring at some point. It isn't going to happen right now, but longterm I think that it would be a good move. The traffic to support this route must surely be there. The 787 would also be a good product upgrade from the 747s across all cabins, but especially Y.

Re BNE, I am - unfortunately - less convinced. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see UA in BNE, not least for entirely selfish reasons as my mum is a BNE-based 1K. The current drag through SYD is a pain in the ass, it is fine for QF-QF connections, but when you have to collect your luggage and pay for the train it is far from optimal. I can't, however, see it working without an Australian partner. I believe that the market from the USA to Brisbane/SEQld is relatively small and UA has next to no brand penetration in this market so they're unlikely to pick up to much BNE-originating traffic. Without an Australian partner to market them here and provide feed from CNS etc I can't see it happening. I'd love to be proven wrong, though!



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2948 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6119 times:

QF has posted on Facebook that the last A332 on order will be in Australia by the end of November... She has been painted with the OW livery (which I'm not a fan of...) but this is good news  

Photos here: http://instagram.com/p/R6u0aeQ-5b/

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 16):

I think the best thing that they could do initially is fly to MEL through BNE. The routing would probably end up being faster than the existing SYD stop overall, and the existing MEL market can help support BNE while they build the brand.

The problem then is that SYD loses MEL's traffic, which could be an issue in the low season. What they really need is the A350 (or even the 789), but that's still a few years away for UA. Perhaps the solution then for SYD would be a 747 from LAX and a 787 from SFO (given that it's the more premium market). Overall that would given them a bump in capacity overall to Australia, but it's not ideal.


User currently offlineFlyingsottsman From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6111 times:

UA have 2 flights daly going into SYD, 1 from LAX and 1 from SFO which 1 of those flights is a tag on to MEL (not sure if its the SFO or LAX flight) I wounder why cant UA send the other flight of to BNE, and then on to the US or fly it back to SYD like they do with the MEL tag on, that way UA serves BNE and one of those 744s are not sitting on the tarmac for most of the day, correct me if I am wrong but dont both those flights get into SYD early in the morning and dont leave until mid afternoon? Does UA have rights to fly into BNE with their own metal if they wanted to?

User currently offlineFlyingsottsman From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6115 times:

Seems like more job loses at QF maintenence, Avalon and Sydney agian and looks like Brisbane is jumping way ahead of Sydney and Melbourne as far as maintaining aircraft, if Brisbane is doing maintenance on the 763s and A330 200/300 where do the 737/717/Q400s go for maintenance now that Melbourne has shut or shuting down? I know SYD still maintains some 747s as do Avalon but dont know for how much longer. Could it be another fight between unions and management brewing again ?

User currently offlineskyhawkmatthew From Australia, joined Oct 2005, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6117 times:

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 19):

The 717 maintenance is outsourced already, IIRC; QantasLink recently upgraded the Tamworth base to service the Q400 fleet.



Qantas - The Spirit of Australia.
User currently offlineFlyingsottsman From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6113 times:

Thanks Skyhawk for that information

User currently offlineaussie18 From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 1736 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6116 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Quoting qf002 (Reply 17):
QF has posted on Facebook that the last A332 on order will be in Australia by the end of November... She has been painted with the OW livery (which I'm not a fan of...) but this is good news

I Wonder how long this one will last in the OW livery.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6115 times:

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 14):

Let's not forget GA have tied up with EY rerouting the CGK-DXB-AMS service via AUH...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 674 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6112 times:

Just out of curiosity, could we see KE or OZ expand more down under? Seoul is a booming market - perhaps a thrice weekly ICN-PER could eventually be on the cards.

User currently offlineeaglefarm4 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 425 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6314 times:

KE are pulling MEL apparently according to another board.

BNE will be 6 a week from next week.



tourismman
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5607 posts, RR: 6
Reply 26, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6322 times:

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 18):
UA have 2 flights daly going into SYD, 1 from LAX and 1 from SFO which 1 of those flights is a tag on to MEL (not sure if its the SFO or LAX flight) I wounder why cant UA send the other flight of to BNE

It is normally the aircraft from LAX that does the SYD-MEL-SYD tag, according to the cabin crew when I flew that flight two weeks ago. I don't know if that aircraft then flies back on SYD- LAX or SYD - SFO (I believe SFO is UA's west coast maintenance base).
As for BNE, while a SYD-BNE-SYD tag could be fitted into the schedule I doubt it would be cost effective. IMHO MEL only works as it is because a) UA's corporate contracts; b) rock bottom fares & c) it is not seen as a backtrack. I doubt a) is as big to BNE, b) makes it less than attractive and c) it certainly is a backtrack.
While one aircraft does sit at SYD, its only 7-8 hours, not like the 14+ some QF aircraft sit at LAX. Both aircraft arrive SYD about 7:00 am and leave between 2:00 & 3:00 pm.
A LAX-BNE-MEL route might work, but then MEL loses the connection to SFO. Maybe when UA have more B787s something like SFO-BNE-MEL & LAX-MEL might work with B787s while LAX-SYD stays B744 until the A359s arrive.


Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5173 posts, RR: 4
Reply 27, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6476 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 17):


Wasn't Kangaroo Island previously a 747?

Quoting qf002 (Reply 17):
Perhaps the solution then for SYD would be a 747 from LAX and a 787 from SFO

If that were to happen it would probably be the other way around, with no competition to SFO and their West Coast fortress there.

A more likely scenario IMHO would be 2 777s. For a start I do occasionally monitor UA's loads out of Australia and they do surprisingly well up front, even F gets decent loads. Since the 787s are 2 class I don't think that they are necessarily the right aircraft for the route.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 18):
1 from LAX and 1 from SFO which 1 of those flights is a tag on to MEL (not sure if its the SFO or LAX flight)

UA839/840 is LAX-SYD-MEL, but the aircraft is usually the SFO one. This changes when they rotate a 747 out of LAX: as SYD is UA's only 747 flight out of LAX they do something like SFO-SYD-LAX-SYD.....SYD-LAX-SYD-MEL-SYD-SFO.

How often the frame in-bound from LAX does the MEL turn is simply dependent on how often they rotate that aircraft.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 18):
correct me if I am wrong but dont both those flights get into SYD early in the morning and dont leave until mid afternoon?

They are synchronised specifically that way so that MEL is fed from both LAX and SFO.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 18):
Does UA have rights to fly into BNE with their own metal if they wanted to?

It's open skies so I don't see why not. Obviously they couldn't carry local traffic, but they shouldn't have any problems getting a tag-on.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 26):
UA's corporate contracts

I think this a good point. As I said I do keep an eye on how they're doing, and F and J loads into MEL aren't that bad. Also, MEL is one of the few stations outside the USA to have a United Club. The fact that it's lasted this long (especially post merger) would suggest that there is a decent flow of high value customers. Almost every other international station (including SYD) is outsourced to a third party lounge.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineeaglefarm4 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 425 posts, RR: 1
Reply 28, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6463 times:

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 18):

United used to fly daily to BNE .LAX-SYD-BNE-SYD-LAX.



tourismman
User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6470 times:

I don't see why UA should fly LAX-BNE. There's already two airlines on the route and the market isn't that large. SFO-BNE could possibly work but you wouldn't want to send anything bigger than a 788 at first. I'd be a bit nervous about it suggesting it inside UA though.

I think a more likely scenario is SFO-MEL with a 787 and losing the SYD-MEL-SYD tag. That's more or less what they have done in the high season isn't it? Perhaps MEL-LAX direct, but perhaps not.


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5607 posts, RR: 6
Reply 30, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6485 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 27):

UA839/840 is LAX-SYD-MEL, but the aircraft is usually the SFO one.

That is not what the cabin crew said on UA839 arriving SYD on 22/10/12. He said it was usually the LAX aircraft unless it was being swapped for maintenance, but he didn't say how that was done.

Who's right & wrong, I have NO idea.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineBoeing767-300 From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 659 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6503 times:

I just got an e mail from Qantas showing a change for 581 in January 11th from a 744 to a 763. A quick look through the schedule shows that its 767 daily from about 2nd december 2012.

Is VH-OJD finally being put out to pasture.

And surely that is going to play into Virgins hands with huge reduction in J (Skybed) and pretty average product and capacity with the 763.

You would think with yet another steak knife arriving (VH-EBV) they could 332 it daily....

who knows.......


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5173 posts, RR: 4
Reply 32, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6503 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 30):

I've just checked the four dates that are publicly available right now, Nov 11-14

On Sunday Nov 11 MEL was operated by the SFO aircraft

On the other three dates (12, 13, 14) the flight is operated by an aircraft going LAX-SYD-MEL-SYD-SFO, effectively moving the frame out of LAX.


The reality is that UA840 arrives from MEL at 2:20, and departs to LAX at 3:20, which leaves on a 60 minute turn. UA870, however, doesn't leave until 4:20 - a 2 hour turn. The frame operating from MEL to SYD is almost always therefore the one that goes onto to SFO.

What changes is whether it is the frame inbound from LAX that operates the MEL turn or not. I have seen weeks and weeks go past when they've had 2 747s simply going back and forth LAX-SYD-LAX, and other times when they seem to rotate a new aircraft through LAX everyday (i.e. SFO-SYD-LAX-SYD-MEL-SYD-SFO)



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6405 posts, RR: 39
Reply 33, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6502 times:

Can't seem to find it anywhere recently - is the new arrival of the QF A332 signalling the end of the 744 on SYD-PER?


It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 674 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6476 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 33):
Can't seem to find it anywhere recently - is the new arrival of the QF A332 signalling the end of the 744 on SYD-PER?

There was a thread on this, the 747 comes back next year.


User currently offlineeaglefarm4 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 425 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6468 times:

JetGo's 2nd ERJ 135 due into BNE tomorrow on delivery.


tourismman
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 36, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6489 times:

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 34):

I believe the B744 is to be utilized on the QF21 SYD-NRT route... There are only 2 Kangaroo aircraft remaining and heading to the desert soon...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2904 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6475 times:

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 24):
Just out of curiosity, could we see KE or OZ expand more down under? Seoul is a booming market - perhaps a thrice weekly ICN-PER could eventually be on the cards.

Can't see that one working.

The factors in play are:

- There would be minimal VFR travel from PER to Korea
- The Australian outbound tourism market to Korea is no exactly huge in itself
- There is a declining inbound tourism trend occurring for inbound travel from Korea into Australia from the last stats I saw
- The route is not seen as competitive as a transit point to Europe from Australia. Might try to get a slice of the USA-PER market, but that would be a hard one to make work too.
- Remember that transit pax are usually lower yielding too, so I struggle to see how they would make it work even in WA's boom times.
- With the flood of capacity PER seems to be getting, Its not one that makes sense as a viable option at this rate IMHO.

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 25):
KE are pulling MEL apparently according to another board.

It appears that the 4th March, 2013 was listed as the date it would cease on that other board. No confirmation of that yet though.

Certainly is not a big shock though.


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2948 posts, RR: 2
Reply 38, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6454 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 27):
Wasn't Kangaroo Island previously a 747?

Yes, VH-OED apparently.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 27):
If that were to happen it would probably be the other way around, with no competition to SFO and their West Coast fortress there.

My thinking is that UA seems to carry a lot of lower yielding Y traffic to LAX, whereas SFO as a destination would probably be targeted at a higher end passenger, and some connecting traffic. I did think about the loss of F to SFO, but I'm really not familiar with UA on this route...

I don't think we're likely to see UA change their strategy here for a few years though. Things will change with the A350.


User currently offlineSYDSpotter From Australia, joined Oct 2012, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6469 times:

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 31):
I just got an e mail from Qantas showing a change for 581 in January 11th from a 744 to a 763. A quick look through the schedule shows that its 767 daily from about 2nd december 2012.

Are the new refurbished 767's being deployed on the SYD-PER route first? I have an upcoming flight on a 767 to PER, and would be keen to see the new product and test out the new IFE (ipads).



319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W
User currently offlineFlyingsottsman From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6438 times:

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 28):
United used to fly daily to BNE .LAX-SYD-BNE-SYD-LAX.

I dont dout you eaglefarm cause you are probley right,   when did UA serve BNE I thought the only 2 cities they serve is SYD and MEL what years did they fly to BNE?


User currently offlineFlyingsottsman From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6454 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 26):
It is normally the aircraft from LAX that does the SYD-MEL-SYD tag,

Thanks gemuser for that information very interesting about their MEL tag ons. Its a shame the direct MEL LAX service didnt work out for them I belive it was because the MEL LAX flight realy streached their 744s to the max. Unlike QF they didnt have the 744ER in their fleet.


User currently offlineflylonghaul From Australia, joined Feb 2010, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6469 times:

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 40):
I dont dout you eaglefarm cause you are probley right, when did UA serve BNE I thought the only 2 cities they serve is SYD and MEL what years did they fly to BNE?

I am also curious about that. I remember seeing a UA 747 in the battleship sceme in the 90s sometime from memory, but can't remember more than that.



Flying for Pleasure
User currently offlineFlyingsottsman From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6499 times:

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 25):
KE are pulling MEL apparently according to another board.

BNE will be 6 a week from next week.

Dam !   be a shame to loose KE from MEL. How come a flight will work from one city and not from another ?
Like take for example lets say MEL to HNL ( I dont know if that is a good example or not) How does a flight from SYD to HNL work for QF or JQ but it does not work from MEL or in this case KE going to drop MEL but increasing BNE whats the difference between BNE and MEL both big citys and commerical centres and plenty for tourists see and I am sure plenty from MEL would like to see Korea to. So how does it work from one city and not the other?


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 44, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6504 times:

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 39):
Are the new refurbished 767's being deployed on the SYD-PER route first? I have an upcoming flight on a 767 to PER, and would be keen to see the new product and test out the new IFE (ipads).

Yes, only 1 of a total 16 B763 to be refurbished has been operating SYD-PER-SYD... Only VH-OGQ has been refurbished so far...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2948 posts, RR: 2
Reply 45, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6495 times:

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 43):
So how does it work from one city and not the other?

In this case, it is about the inbound market. Lots of Koreans going to Queensland, but comparatively very few travelling to MEL. Same reason that there are so many flights between Queensland and Japan, but none to MEL.


User currently offlineeaglefarm4 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 425 posts, RR: 1
Reply 46, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6466 times:

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 40):

UA flew to BNE around 1992 for several years.Initially Mon,Thur,Sat and then daily.It was a add on to the LAX-SYD service.

CO also operated a daily flight as well from 1989.



tourismman
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2914 posts, RR: 20
Reply 47, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6471 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 45):
Same reason that there are so many flights between Queensland and Japan, but none to MEL.

I've been wondering if JQ will try making ICN-CNS or ICN-OOL work once the 787's arrive. It seems a logical extension of the network and by that stage Jetstar Japan should be in Korea with A320's to support brand recognition and build a base of flyers.


User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2000 posts, RR: 4
Reply 48, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6456 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 47):
I've been wondering if JQ will try making ICN-CNS or ICN-OOL work once the 787's arrive.

Initially I think it's more likely to do something like ICN-NRT/KIX-CNS/OOL utilising Jetstar Japan and a similar strategy for many SE Asian destinations from Australia via Singapore. Maybe they'd even fly direct from Singapore. My understanding is that Korea and Taiwan are the in thing in Asia right now (the power of soapies and pop music!) and intra-Asian traffic would probably be higher than traffic to and from Australia.



Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6462 times:

despite impending loss of KE, growth in international still occurring

http://www.routes-news.com/news/item...drives-growth-at-melbourne-airport

interesting stat from that article: just shy of 900k people use another port for an international connection, of which 600k is at SYD.

165k people who are bound for the US are going via another port - that's roughly an equivalent 1x daily A380 load going to the US via AKL/BNE/SYD. Hello DL & 77Ls, where art thou?


User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6457 times:

The other interesting tidbit - 32k people are going to Canada via another port (well they have to!) and it's the equivalent of 88 people per day - less than half a 787 load (that AC has talked about flying here in the past), 3x weekly might have a good demand/supply match, but a daily would require a lot of market stimulation.

User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2914 posts, RR: 20
Reply 51, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6446 times:

Quoting tayser (Reply 49):
165k people who are bound for the US are going via another port - that's roughly an equivalent 1x daily A380 load going to the US via AKL/BNE/SYD. Hello DL & 77Ls, where art thou?

Makes sense when you think that VA/DL would be connecting pax in SYD & BNE, NZ in AKL and UA via SYD but on their own tag flight from MEL. It's also an interesting indication of the potential for QF to offer another US bound service from MEL over and above their A380 to LAX. A 789 to DFW for instance?


User currently offlineeta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2072 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6473 times:

UA did fly the SYD-BNE tag with a 744 in the early 90's, but my recollection was it was very short-lived and the sector was cancelled almost as much as it actually operated. The MEL corporate market keeps UA there- BNE just can't make up the front end numbers.

I think the current aircraft routing is below, but SYD can do a subsititution on the day:
SFO-SYD-LAX-SYD-MEL-SYD-SFO


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5173 posts, RR: 4
Reply 53, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6456 times:

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 52):
I think the current aircraft routing is below, but SYD can do a subsititution on the day:
SFO-SYD-LAX-SYD-MEL-SYD-SFO

I checked and that's what they're doing on Thursday, meaning that they've done it every day this week. As I said above though, they do sometimes just dump a couple of 747s in LAX and do LAX-SYD-LAX, and then SFO-SYD-MEL-SYD-MEL. I honestly don't know why they sometimes change the LAX bound frame every day, and sometimes seem to station a pair there semi-permanently. I guess that nobody should read too deeply into UAL, they seem to defy logic  



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2914 posts, RR: 20
Reply 54, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6491 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 53):
I guess that nobody should read too deeply into UAL, they seem to defy logic

A good friend of mine is a FA on UA who does the LAX-SYD-MEL run regularly. He's had a couple of 10 day trips in the last couple of months due to UA fiddling around with their 744's between LAX and SFO, cancelling some flights etc. It seems weird what they're doing and he, being an avid aviation enthusiast as well, can't seem to figure it out.


User currently offlineeta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2072 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6469 times:

One thing I've noticed with UA in SYD- if one 744 goes tech, usually the SFO service will be sacrificed so SYD-LAX can operate, even if that's the tech a/c.

User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2948 posts, RR: 2
Reply 56, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6464 times:

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 55):
One thing I've noticed with UA in SYD- if one 744 goes tech, usually the SFO service will be sacrificed so SYD-LAX can operate, even if that's the tech a/c.

That's because the inbound LAX aircraft operates the return to SYD, while UA have plenty of aircraft in SFO that they can sub in to operate the flight to SYD the next day.


User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2914 posts, RR: 20
Reply 57, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6401 times:

http://www.businessday.com.au/busine...n-lifts-shares-20121115-29dgu.html

Interesting bit of news this morning. After cancelling the 787-9 order and selling off Star Track, total proceeds to be received of $750 million, QF is conducting a $100 million share buyback and will bring forward the repayment of $650 million of debt to January 2013 from June 2013.

Interesting use of these funds. Seems to be the most financially prudent but maybe not the most visionary.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24996 posts, RR: 85
Reply 58, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6403 times:
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Quoting sydscott (Reply 57):
Interesting use of these funds. Seems to be the most financially prudent but maybe not the most visionary.

I think that sometimes financial prudence trumps visionary.

Arguably, one of the most important things Qantas has to do is restore investor confidence. A dividend would go a long way towards that, of course.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2904 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6397 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 58):
I think that sometimes financial prudence trumps visionary.

Arguably, one of the most important things Qantas has to do is restore investor confidence. A dividend would go a long way towards that, of course.

Fully agree. This is the most solid move they could have made.

Being visionary only gets you so far, especially if that gamble goes badly wrong.


User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2914 posts, RR: 20
Reply 60, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6397 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 58):
I think that sometimes financial prudence trumps visionary.

True.

The ASX announcement is a little bit more interesting because it has first half profit guidance and more facts on the Emirates proposal;

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20121115/pdf/42b6kclzjylmh1.pdf

- For the half year ended December 31st, 2012 they expect underlying profit before tax of between $180m and $230m;
- Group capacity is increasing 1 and 3%. Domestic capacity is increasing 7% to 9% in the half.

Most interestingly in relation to the EK deal;

- the ability for QF to codeshare on ALL EK services, subject to regulatory approval;
- the ability for EK to codeshare on ALL QF services, subject to regulatory approval;
- te ability, where it is not possible to codeshare, to interline onto all services of the other airline.

No wonder VA and Co are having a fit! It'll be good for that to be approved and then extremely interesting to s


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2904 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6412 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 60):
No wonder VA and Co are having a fit! It'll be good for that to be approved and then extremely interesting to s

I don't think VA has much of a leg to stand on when trying to oppose this deal.

It already has built strong relationships with a number of carriers itself, including JV agreements. Of course it will oppose this move, as it is in their best interests to do so, but IMHO, its not going to help do anything to stop it.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24996 posts, RR: 85
Reply 62, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6402 times:
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Quoting sydscott (Reply 60):
The ASX announcement is a little bit more interesting because it has first half profit guidance and more facts on the Emirates proposal;

Maybe you can help me here. I'm used to American terminology and I assume that "underlying profit" is the same as the American "operating profit."

That is the profit made by the actual airline/group without any special charges attached to it.

Or is it simply net profit before tax?

TIA.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6405 posts, RR: 39
Reply 63, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6411 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 62):
Maybe you can help me here. I'm used to American terminology and I assume that "underlying profit" is the same as the American "operating profit."

AFAIK, operating profit is a figure derived from the profit and loss of active operations of the company, otherwise known as the accounting profit (ie in this case, JQ, QF Int, domestic etc - all currently operating parts to the business). On the other hand, underlying profit also includes non-operating revenues/expenses; such as allowing for one off events like the payment from Boeing.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 414 posts, RR: 0
Reply 64, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6436 times:

I also find it interesting that EK is seeking to codeshare on JQ services, not just QF. I believe EK interlines with FZ, but do they also codeshare?

Another piece to note was their use of a "benefit transfer model for certain routes". I wonder if this will lead to profit sharing, rather than just pricing coordination?


User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2914 posts, RR: 20
Reply 65, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6427 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 62):
That is the profit made by the actual airline/group without any special charges attached to it.

Underlying profit - in QF defintion means the profit derived from the ordinary, continuing operations of the business excluding one off charges, extra-ordinary income etc. Australian Banks use this same measure but term it "cash profit".

Operating profit - in QF terms they use the statutory definition as prescribed by AIFRS.

The underlying profit is the one that QF heads of business divisions use to measure the performance of their business units.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 63):
On the other hand, underlying profit also includes non-operating revenues/expenses; such as allowing for one off events like the payment from Boeing.

Right and wrong. The underlying profit, in QF terms, can include non-operating revenues and expenses insofar as they relate to business units. However it doesn't include the sale of Startrack or the payments to be received from Boeing.

As an example of their "underlying" profit calculation, in the 2012 full year financials the difference between the statutory net profit and the underlying profit was $398 million which was made up of;

Impairment of 6 x 744's due to be retired $147m
Redundancies & re-structuring $203m
write down of inventory $ 13m
impairment of goodwill $ 18m
Loss on disposal of investments $ 19m
Write-back of legal provision -$ 2m

I'd expect the Startrack and the Boeing payments to appear in the 2013 Statutory net profit reported but no in the underlying numbers.

[Edited 2012-11-14 18:30:40]

User currently onlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4853 posts, RR: 5
Reply 66, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6423 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 65):
or the payments to be received from Boeing.

Are these equal to the deposits made or are they discounted because of cancellation of aircraft or, most likely, the answer is not known since the complete agreement has not been disclosed.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6405 posts, RR: 39
Reply 67, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6436 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 65):
I'd expect the Startrack and the Boeing payments to appear in the 2013 Statutory net profit reported but no in the underlying numbers.

Hmm, ok, thanks. Guess that helps AJ's case for reinstatement then  



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24996 posts, RR: 85
Reply 68, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6429 times:
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Quoting sydscott (Reply 65):
Underlying profit - in QF defintion means the profit derived from the ordinary, continuing operations of the business excluding one off charges, extra-ordinary income etc.

Hmmmm. Thanks. That sounds very much what I would think of as "operating profit."

So is it fair to say that the underlying profit is the "net profit" including all special charges and special income - one-off charges and receipts - before tax?

mariner

[Edited 2012-11-14 19:01:17]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2914 posts, RR: 20
Reply 69, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6421 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 66):
Are these equal to the deposits made or are they discounted because of cancellation of aircraft or, most likely, the answer is not known since the complete agreement has not been disclosed.

We won't know until they release some financial statements. Once they release financial statements, profit numbers and cash flows we'll be able to tell from the way its booked into the accounts.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 67):
Hmm, ok, thanks. Guess that helps AJ's case for reinstatement then

Not really. I haven't read the remuneration report but I'd say his bonuses etc would be tied to the underlying performance and the share price. So one off big profits won't necessarily translate into bonuses for him.

Quoting mariner (Reply 68):
So is it fair to say that the underlying profit is the "net profit" including all special charges and special income - one-off charges and receipts - before tax?

Underlying profit excludes special charges, one time charges, one off receipts etc.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24996 posts, RR: 85
Reply 70, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6420 times:
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Quoting sydscott (Reply 69):
Underlying profit excludes special charges, one time charges, one off receipts etc.

So what term do we use for the actual profit - the money the company made (before tax) including all charges and receipts?

I would use "net profit" but I haven't seen it used in Australia. So is "accounting profit" the alternative?

mariner

[Edited 2012-11-14 19:56:04]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6405 posts, RR: 39
Reply 71, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6425 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 69):
Not really. I haven't read the remuneration report but I'd say his bonuses etc would be tied to the underlying performance and the share price. So one off big profits won't necessarily translate into bonuses for him.

More for the case of him looking good in the face of uneducated shareholders and the like.. But the share price usually comes into the equation through options allocated to him etc. Today showed that these extra profits forecast result in increases in share price.. Anyway let's get back on topic...



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2914 posts, RR: 20
Reply 72, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6438 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 70):
So what term do we use for the actual profit - the money the company made (before tax) including all charges and receipts?

QF terms that "Statutory Profit before tax".

Quoting mariner (Reply 70):
I would use "net profit" but I haven't seen it used in Australia. So is "accounting profit" the alternative?

In Australia generally non financial companies refer to "underlying profit" to measure their performance. They then reconcile that to "statutory profit" in their financial statements. (Which is an AIFRS defined consistent number across all entities) Financial Company's refer to "cash profit" as their performance measure and then reconcile it to "statutory profit" as per AIFRS. So Mariner what you're looking for is Statutory profit which includes the effects of everything on the profit number.

But QF doesn't provide guidance on the "Statutory Profit".   So we can't tell, until they release some financials at the half year, what falls where.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24996 posts, RR: 85
Reply 73, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6442 times:
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Quoting sydscott (Reply 72):
QF terms that "Statutory Profit before tax".

Ah - thank you. Now I'm there.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6443 times:

I don't agree with the buy back. Wasn't it only a month or two ago that he was saying he didn't have any money so he couldn't take delivery of the A380s that really were needed? Buy backs aren't noted for being the start of a long term upward trend in share price.

User currently offlineZuluAlpha From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6431 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 64):
I wonder if this will lead to profit sharing

This was a cornerstone of the QF / BA JSA, a profit share agreement for the Kangaroo Route



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User currently offlineSYDSpotter From Australia, joined Oct 2012, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 76, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6423 times:

Quoting thegeek (Reply 74):
I don't agree with the buy back. Wasn't it only a month or two ago that he was saying he didn't have any money so he couldn't take delivery of the A380s that really were needed? Buy backs aren't noted for being the start of a long term upward trend in share price.

It's not a bad time to buy-back the shares given the share price is close to historical lows ~$1.20 per share. The last time QF raised capital, they issued new shares at ~$1.80 per share, so the buy-back is at discount to their last capital raising. The pay down of debt is a smart move, given they were sitting on a bundle of cash (which was earning interest at a lower rate than the interest rate payable on their debt.

But IMHO the decision to defer/cancel the 787's seems a very short sighted move given the company is crying out for new planes.



319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24996 posts, RR: 85
Reply 77, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6444 times:
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Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 76):
But IMHO the decision to defer/cancel the 787's seems a very short sighted move given the company is crying out for new planes.

Profit before growth?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2914 posts, RR: 20
Reply 78, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6436 times:

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 76):
It's not a bad time to buy-back the shares given the share price is close to historical lows ~$1.20 per share.

It also says that using cash to buy back shares is a better "investment" for the airline than further investing in their businesses or acquiring new ones. What oes that say about QF as a Company to invest in at the moment?


User currently offlinetim From Australia, joined Jun 2000, 704 posts, RR: 3
Reply 79, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6484 times:

The worst keep secret has been confirmed by a Emirates Country manager. Emirates are ready to start daily A380 services to Perth the second the currently under construction A380 gate is finished next year. Likely to replace only one of the 3 daily 777's at this stage providing a major capacity boost again.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/emirates-pla...-airbus-a380-flights-from-mid-2013


User currently offlineSYDSpotter From Australia, joined Oct 2012, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6413 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 78):
It also says that using cash to buy back shares is a better "investment" for the airline than further investing in their businesses or acquiring new ones. What oes that say about QF as a Company to invest in at the moment?

Well i think airlines in general are a pretty poor investment, only a handful of airlines worldwide are meeting their 'return on equity'. But given QF had circa $3b sitting around, better to 'return' that to investors that have it sitting there earning bank interest. The message they are trying to send is that they think the stock price is low and the business is undervalued. Alan Joyce thinks QF have now reached a turning point with all the bad news out the way with only positives to come (tie-up with EK, stabilised intl arm, leaner business with lower debt).



319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 81, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6413 times:

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 80):
Well i think airlines in general are a pretty poor investment, only a handful of airlines worldwide are meeting their 'return on equity'. But given QF had circa $3b sitting around, better to 'return' that to investors that have it sitting there earning bank interest. The message they are trying to send is that they think the stock price is low and the business is undervalued. Alan Joyce thinks QF have now reached a turning point with all the bad news out the way with only positives to come (tie-up with EK, stabilised intl arm, leaner business with lower debt).

I totally agree... Qantas is certainly reaching the turning point and now its time to return the favour to the investors... My self included...
With the QF/EK tie up Tim Clark has mentioned QF's 5 year plan is on track and in return there will be expansion 2016 and beyond which is just in time with the B787's coming online and options open to take on the last remaining A380s...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinemaxter From Australia, joined May 2009, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6419 times:

Did I really see a SQ B744 climb out over Shelley Bridge here in PER at around 16:40 today?


maxter
User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 83, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6429 times:

Quoting maxter (Reply 82):

Sure did, SQ 747-400F 9V-SFP operated a flight in and out of Perth today.


User currently offlineZuluAlpha From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6429 times:

Quoting tim (Reply 79):
The worst keep secret has been confirmed by a Emirates Country manager. Emirates are ready to start daily A380 services to Perth

Then I wonder if the EK 380 will then continue to New Zealand. And with the announcements releasing of information that EK is chasing the rights to codeshare and / or interline with QF, will we see the much discussed PER / AKL flight with EK metal. Though I am aware it is a massive amount of capacity, using the 380. Though that is was EK is famous for.



CRJ CR7 D10 DHT DH8 DH2 DH3 DH4 EMB ER3 E90 F28 J32 M80 SH6 320 332 333 380 717 732 733 734 738 743 744 752 762 763 772
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 85, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6421 times:

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 84):
Then I wonder if the EK 380 will then continue to New Zealand.

I was under the impression EK have reached their limit with tasman services...?

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineSYDSpotter From Australia, joined Oct 2012, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6440 times:

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 84):
Then I wonder if the EK 380 will then continue to New Zealand. And with the announcements releasing of information that EK is chasing the rights to codeshare and / or interline with QF, will we see the much discussed PER / AKL flight with EK metal. Though I am aware it is a massive amount of capacity, using the 380. Though that is was EK is famous for.


Capacity wise, it is probably a A333/772 market at best. It is 6-7hr flight? So operating the A380 ain't going to be cheap and you would need some pretty decent yields to make it work. The A380 works for SYD-AKL as it is only a short-hop and you can afford to "abuse" it a bit and the aircraft would otherwise be sitting idle at SYD.

What are the turnaround times for the PER-DXB flights, surely they don't sit idle for >12hrs (which is what you would need to have PER-AKL turned around)?



319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2948 posts, RR: 2
Reply 87, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6401 times:

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 84):
Then I wonder if the EK 380 will then continue to New Zealand

I am totally on board with the concept, but surely one of the 77W's would make more sense.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 85):
I was under the impression EK have reached their limit with tasman services...?

They have. They would have to drop something to open PER-AKL. BNE-AKL strikes me as the most likely (given the AKL market is already well covered with the other 2 daily flights and BNE is the smallest/least premium market of the three they fly to AKL from), or SYD-CHC.


User currently offlinemaxter From Australia, joined May 2009, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6392 times:

Quoting QF175 (Reply 83):
Sure did, SQ 747-400F 9V-SFP operated a flight in and out of Perth today.

Ah thanks for that, is this a regular thing now or a one off. If it's a regular, must head down there to snap off a few pictures.
Great news on the confirmation of the 380 for PER from EK.



maxter
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5173 posts, RR: 4
Reply 89, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6403 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 87):
BNE-AKL strikes me as the most likely

The only way this would happen is if they were to increase capacity to BNE by making 434/435 standalone, but that isn't too likely since they would probably rather not have a 777 doing nothing from 6am to 8pm.

With regards to the Aus-AKL tag, I had heard a rumor/speculation that BNE-AKL had significantly better loads than SYD-AKL as they picked up more traffic in BNE than they did in SYD. Whether that's true or not I don't know.


I'd suggest CHC is the most likely. It's an oddball route which primarily serves the British/European tourism market that fly into AKL, work their way down to South Island, and leave through CHC. It would make more sense to leave that traffic to QF or JQ to shift it from CHC or ZQN to SYD or AKL.

Also, from what I've heard the loads to CHC are diabolical, it really does seem to be a case of loose less money than parking option.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinetim From Australia, joined Jun 2000, 704 posts, RR: 3
Reply 90, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6379 times:

Working in Mining/Oil & Gas myself it is no secret their is a large legion of Kiwi's that I work with in certain fields in particular who travel back to NZ every break on the NZ 777 service. NZ have had a monopoly on this route for a while and the loads and yields on this daily flight are meant to be one of Air NZ's best in their entire network. Certainly a lot more attractive than stopping via Sydney or Melbourne on other carriers.

Having said that I dont think EK have even been rumored to put any of their PER services through to AKL.


User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3032 posts, RR: 1
Reply 91, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6379 times:

Quoting tim (Reply 90):
Having said that I dont think EK have even been rumored to put any of their PER services through to AKL.

Yeh, the only rumour I've heard is QF starting PER-AKL and EK codesharing, with even a possible lining up of schedules to make DXB-PER-AKL-PER-DXB feasable with no long layover.

As for EK bringing A380 to PER, I really hope they push the airport operators to finish the new jetbridge as soon as possible, so that they can start flying as soon as possible.

-CXfirst

[Edited 2012-11-16 19:34:47]


From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlineVH-BZF From Australia, joined Oct 1999, 830 posts, RR: 0
Reply 92, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6356 times:

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/1/4/4/2187441.jpg

Fantastic to see that even after so many years since KLM ceased operations to Australia, that they still operate PH-BFE as 'City of Melbourne'. This is awesome and a credit to KLM, after all it did have a long association with both Melbourne and Sydney for many many years.

Cheers BZF



Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5293 posts, RR: 11
Reply 93, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6340 times:

Quoting tim (Reply 90):
Having said that I dont think EK have even been rumored to put any of their PER services through to AKL.

I'm sure they would have but they don't have anymore Tasman rights.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 89):
With regards to the Aus-AKL tag, I had heard a rumor/speculation that BNE-AKL had significantly better loads than SYD-AKL as they picked up more traffic in BNE than they did in SYD. Whether that's true or not I don't know.

Thats what seems to be the case often, a well loaded 77W from BNE and lightly loaded A380s from SYD/MEL depending on the day.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 89):
Also, from what I've heard the loads to CHC are diabolical, it really does seem to be a case of loose less money than parking option.

Important Freight link though for CHC, weather this outweighs keeping or dropping the route I don't no.


User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 94, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6370 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 89):
With regards to the Aus-AKL tag, I had heard a rumor/speculation that BNE-AKL had significantly better loads than SYD-AKL as they picked up more traffic in BNE than they did in SYD. Whether that's true or not I don't know.
Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 93):
Thats what seems to be the case often, a well loaded 77W from BNE and lightly loaded A380s from SYD/MEL depending on the day.

+1 have read/heard the same.

Brisbane experienced some pretty fierce storms earlier this morning, with further storms expected later this evening. Brisbane Airport was in lockdown for a period of time with a number of arriving and departing flights delayed. Here's an excellent photo of Air New Zealand 747-400 ZK-NBV bearing the brunt of the storm!

Photo source


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2904 posts, RR: 0
Reply 95, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6332 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 93):
Important Freight link though for CHC, weather this outweighs keeping or dropping the route I don't no.

Since the earthquake, I am sure this route would have taken a decent hit overall unfortunately.

I could see EK dropping CHC and leaving that flying to QF.

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 93):
Thats what seems to be the case often, a well loaded 77W from BNE and lightly loaded A380s from SYD/MEL depending on the day.

In many ways, sending an A380 across the Tasman is overkill. Trying to fill that many seats is always tricky, but who knows what the yields are on all those routes?


User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 96, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6349 times:

Quoting maxter (Reply 88):
Ah thanks for that, is this a regular thing now or a one off. If it's a regular, must head down there to snap off a few pictures.

Welcome. SQ Cargo services to Perth are irregular at least according to the SQ Cargo website.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 95):
In many ways, sending an A380 across the Tasman is overkill. Trying to fill that many seats is always tricky, but who knows what the yields are on all those routes?

+1

In other news..

Brindabella Airlines announces Sydney to Moree as a new route, providing extra services for regional Australia.

Quote:
Brindabella Airlines announces Sydney to Moree as a new route, providing extra services for regional Australia.

As a result of a successful license application process, Brindabella Airlines have been awarded a five year license to operate scheduled air services between Sydney and Moree with effect from 30th March 2013.

Continues...
Source

Brindabella Airlines was the successful tenderer for Sydney-Moree and replaces the incumbent QantasLink who will no doubt redeploy the freed-up capacity on some of its stronger markets ex-Sydney or further afield. As a number of people would be aware, Brindabella Airlines is currently undertaking a fleet standardization program which will see it become solely a J41 (30 seats) operator.

Regional Express (REX) successfully retained sole operation rights on its 8 subsidised intra-New South Wales routes.

List of licensed NSW routes awarded to Rex:

Bathurst to Sydney
Broken Hill to Sydney
Grafton to Sydney
Merimbula to Sydney
Moruya to Sydney
Narrandera to Sydney
Parkes to Sydney
Taree to Sydney

Source


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5173 posts, RR: 4
Reply 97, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6327 times:

Quoting QF175 (Reply 94):

SHIT!

Quoting QF175 (Reply 96):
Brindabella Airlines was the successful tenderer for Sydney-Moree

It's really great to see Brindabella growing. They seem to be very good at what they do, and as a Canberran I'm secretly proud that we managed to produce something other than government and universities!



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineaotearoa From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 98, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6320 times:

Quoting QF175 (Reply 94):

Wow. What a great shot! How do you time a shot like this?


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6405 posts, RR: 39
Reply 99, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6309 times:

Quoting aotearoa (Reply 98):
Wow. What a great shot! How do you time a shot like this?

I'd imagine someone got lucky - tried taking the photo for a first strike but there was another right after.. Lightning is virtually impossible to capture on an instant because we react to it more slowly (+ camera lag) than it fires..

But what an image! Crazy.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 100, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6313 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 87):
They have. They would have to drop something to open PER-AKL. BNE-AKL strikes me as the most likely (given the AKL market is already well covered with the other 2 daily flights and BNE is the smallest/least premium market of the three they fly to AKL from), or SYD-CHC.

I've always wondered why is BNE such a difficult market to tap into without the tag on services and not as a direct service...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5173 posts, RR: 4
Reply 101, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6323 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 100):
I've always wondered why is BNE such a difficult market to tap into without the tag on services and not as a direct service...

Que? I will try and not interpret this as an insult to BNE, and presume you are asking why both EK flights are part of a tag?

Well, all 3 MEL flights are not standalone and 2/3 SYD flights are not standalone, so I'm not sure why BNE is really any different.

That said, I don't know why EK can't run an A380 on 434/435. The loads are certainly there, but they seem hesitant to add more capacity to the market. I think the main reason is that they (relatively) struggle to fill 432/434, with a lot of cheap seats practically always being available on that flight but never on 434/435. Rather than accept that people aren't thrilled by a 02:35 departure time, they seem to just presume that BNE is underperforming. If, however, they upgraded 434/435 they could sell every seat and then more.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 102, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6377 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 101):
Que? I will try and not interpret this as an insult to BNE, and presume you are asking why both EK flights are part of a tag?

Yes, spot on... I didn't mean to insult BNE it just seems to be an extremely difficult market to tap into without the tag on flights... As mentioned SYD, MEL, PER have direct services and BNE is operated with the need of a tag on flight... But in saying that you've explained it...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 103, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6376 times:

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 86):
What are the turnaround times for the PER-DXB flights,

According to the November timetable:
EK420 arr 17:35 - EK421 dep 22:05 (this previously has departed at 22:30 and will revert to that time from April)
EK424 arr 01:20 - EK425 dep 06:00
EK422 arr 12:25 - EK423 dep 15:10


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5293 posts, RR: 11
Reply 104, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6386 times:

Quoting QF175 (Reply 94):
Here's an excellent photo of Air New Zealand 747-400 ZK-NBV bearing the brunt of the storm!

Wow!

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 95):
In many ways, sending an A380 across the Tasman is overkill. Trying to fill that many seats is always tricky, but who knows what the yields are on all those routes?

Agreed. But for EK i've always read if they fill the cargo hold that pays for the flight itself so freight is lucrative for them, and pax are a bonus. The 77W carries what about double the volume of freight compared to the A380.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 105, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6370 times:

Quoting QF175 (Reply 94):
Brisbane experienced some pretty fierce storms earlier this morning, with further storms expected later this evening. Brisbane Airport was in lockdown for a period of time with a number of arriving and departing flights delayed. Here's an excellent photo of Air New Zealand 747-400 ZK-NBV bearing the brunt of the storm!

That is a pretty amazing snap shot... Talk about being in the right place at the right time...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineandrewtang From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 461 posts, RR: 10
Reply 106, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6383 times:

Does anyone know if we can expect to see a Qantas plane in a new aboriginal colour scheme? I last heard one of their planes will be painted in a special colour scheme this year.

User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 107, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6390 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting aotearoa (Reply 98):

Long exposure shots are fantastic at getting these shots in the right conditions/camera settings

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 95):
Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 93):
Thats what seems to be the case often, a well loaded 77W from BNE and lightly loaded A380s from SYD/MEL depending on the day.

In many ways, sending an A380 across the Tasman is overkill. Trying to fill that many seats is always tricky, but who knows what the yields are on all those routes?

I've heard the EK SYD-AKL flights do very well in Y. Sometimes J but not sure on F


User currently offlineZuluAlpha From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 108, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6387 times:

Quoting andrewtang (Reply 106):
Does anyone know if we can expect to see a Qantas plane in a new aboriginal colour scheme? I last heard one of their planes will be painted in a special colour scheme this year

There was talk about it earlier in the year, where suspicion laid on that it was going to be a 330 and that it was going to happen sometime in December. And QF management has also gone on record that they want to have another aboriginal painted aircraft (as there are currently none internationally). However there hasn't been much going around lately.

People were hoping that it was going to be an 380 but all fingers pointed to that being an outside chance unless it is done in part of the re-configuration that is currently going with the 380's.

I guess in about 4 - 6 weeks we will find out.



CRJ CR7 D10 DHT DH8 DH2 DH3 DH4 EMB ER3 E90 F28 J32 M80 SH6 320 332 333 380 717 732 733 734 738 743 744 752 762 763 772
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5173 posts, RR: 4
Reply 109, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 6399 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 102):

Sorry if I was a bit brusque!

If we ignore PER for the moment since it is much closer to DXB, EK's flights to the East Coast are like this:

DXB-SYD-AKL
DXB-BKK-SYD-CHC
DBX-SYD

DXB-MEL-AKL
DXB-SIN-MEL
DXB-KUL-MEL

DXB-BNE-AKL
DXB-SIN-BNE

So as you can see, EK service to BNE isn't any different to MEL or SYD, just less of it. That makes sense as the market is half the size. Therefore I was a bit confused by your original comment, but now I think about it were you referring to EY? If so there inertia at BNE has been really disaapointing. BNE was their first destination in Australia, and 5 yeas later it is still 3x via SIN.

As I said before, if EK retimed the SIN flight to similar times as the AKL flight then they would have no problems filling it. With the current times, though, they are having more troule doing so.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 110, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 6392 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 109):

Let's forget EK for a minute and talk about QF for example serving MNL via BNE once a week... Yes EY from my understanding ain't even serving BNE daily and the product offering is outdated too as you already mentioned...
There have never been direct LAX services from BNE, HNL has just commenced sevices o BNE...
From memory TG served BNE via SYD and again it's a tag on from another port... Do you catch the drift...?

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5173 posts, RR: 4
Reply 111, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 6387 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 110):
QF for example serving MNL via BNE once a week

To be honest, I'd forgotten that flight even exists. Realistically I'm not sure that flight is there to serve O&D BNE, if someone was desperate to go to MNL with QF they could just as easily go via SYD.

From what's been said on here before, I believe that this odd-ball stop is driven by freight demand (?)

Quoting EK413 (Reply 110):
There have never been direct LAX services from BNE

Sorry, now you've lost me. LAX is served 9 weekly, and QF15/16 had been non-stop for as long as I can remember (can someone provide a date it started?)

Quoting EK413 (Reply 110):
From memory TG served BNE via SYD and again it's a tag on from another port... Do you catch the drift...?

Yes, it did. Also MH. However, as the market has grown both have de-linked their services and operate them on a standalone basis.

To give you an idea, going from memory BNE has:

28 standalone flights per week to SIN
10 standalone flights per week to HKG
9 standalone flights per week to LAX
7 standalone flights per week to BKK
7 standalone flights per week to CAN
6 standalone flights per week to ICN
5 standalone flights per week to KUL

You get my point.


I think your point was valid a few years back, but not any more. In the past 5 years, EK have increased capacity 100%, SQ 50%, CX 30%, TG and MH have both de-linked their services, LAX has increased by 3 weekly flights, CZ has gone from 0 to 7, even QF, bless them, has added capacity to SIN. In fact, the only airlines that haven't expanded in BNE are EY, KE, and JL (RIP).



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 112, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 6403 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 111):
Sorry, now you've lost me. LAX is served 9 weekly, and QF15/16 had been non-stop for as long as I can remember (can someone provide a date it started?)

Didn't mean to lose you there but from memory there wasn't any direct daily service until VA introduced services then QF as always jumped on the band wagon by introducing daily services...

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 111):
From what's been said on here before, I believe that this odd-ball stop is driven by freight demand (?)

Freight is probably a factor but I believe the flight has a healthy load factor which is expected considering it operates once a week...

Based on your response would appear my information on BNE is outdated... Thanks for clarifying though...

I found a link to the starting dates of direct services too... The thrice weekly direct service (QF175/176) commenced in June 2004. The flights renumbered in 2011...

http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airl...oom-1056/am/en

& this was increased to daily when QF25/QF26 moved to MEL in early 2006.

EK413

[Edited 2012-11-17 13:51:34]


Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5173 posts, RR: 4
Reply 113, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 6393 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 112):
Didn't mean to lose you there but from memory there wasn't any direct daily service until VA introduced services then QF as always jumped on the band wagon by introducing daily services...

Oh, I was confused by the word "direct" - I thought you were implying that BNE didn't have LAX service!

Quoting EK413 (Reply 110):
There have never been direct LAX services from BNE

QF15/16 was 6 weekly. In April 2008 it was increased to daily. The GFC hit at about that time, and VA started not long after (March 2009?). Given depressed yields and extra capacity, the route was dropped back to 6 weekly.

Depending on what VA do, that flight will go back to daily at some point. After all, short of putting an A380 on 107/108 which is IMHO highly unlikely even after #13 and 14 arrive, it is the next step for QF to expand LAX.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 112):
Based on your response would appear my information on BNE is outdate

The simple fact is that Brisbane handles 80% of the international traffic going through MEL, despite the Melbourne metropolitan area being double the size of the Brisbane metropolitan area, and handles 50% more international traffic than PER.

We can discuss semantics all day. It is, after all, true that PER has 4 daily standalone flights to the Middle East while BNE has 2.5, all of which form tags of some description. Also PER has significantly more traffic to Singapore and, indeed, the whole of South East Asia than BNE does. In turn, however, BNE compensates for its smaller Asian network through its Pacific network, with destinations such as CHC, WLG, NAN, VLI, POM, HIR that aren't offered form PER. This is a simple factor of geography.

I'm sorry if I sound overly defensive of BNE! To use ANet jargon I wouldn't consider myself a BNE "fanboy", but I just wanted to set the record straight  Smile

[Edited 2012-11-17 14:03:19]


Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 114, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 6397 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 113):

No harm done you've certainly provided clarity on the questions raised...

Cheers

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineeaglefarm4 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 425 posts, RR: 1
Reply 115, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 6432 times:

EY will from FEB 2013 go DLY BNE-SIN giving BNE a total of 6 daily to SIN

EK 1 DLY
SQ 3 dly
EY 1 DLY
QF 1 DLY

Other non stops

TPE 6 a week with BR,CI
SEL 6 a week with KE
POM 15 a week with PX,VA
CAN 4 a week soon to be 7 a week with CZ
HKG 15 a week with CX 11 and QF 4
KUL 5 a week with MH
BKK 7 a week with TG
MNL 1 a week with QF

DXB 7 a week with EK

LAX 10 a week with QF 6 a week and VA 4 a week.
HNL 3 a week with HA starts in 10 days time.

I wont list all the NZ and Pacific islands flights but they are many.



tourismman
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5173 posts, RR: 4
Reply 116, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 6414 times:

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 115):
DXB 7 a week with EK

Surely 14?

If you are only counting non-stops, then HKG is lower because 3/4 (?) go via CNS.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineeaglefarm4 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 425 posts, RR: 1
Reply 117, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6402 times:

Yep i was referring to non stops, and yes in regards to CNS you are correct i should have.


tourismman
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5173 posts, RR: 4
Reply 118, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6388 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 112):
QF175/176

I had completely forgotten those flight numbers! In my mind it was always 15/16. Now that you've pointed it out it's come back to me!



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2948 posts, RR: 2
Reply 119, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 6357 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 102):
As mentioned SYD, MEL, PER have direct services and BNE is operated with the need of a tag on flight... But in saying that you've explained it...

Further to this point (though it has already been pretty well covered), SYD and MEL only gained dedicated EK services when the airline went from 2 daily to 3 daily. Their east coast strategy for the last decade has been to first start a flight via Asia (initially with a tag to AKL), then a nonstop with a Tasman tag, then additional dedicated nonstops for further growth.

BNE is just a smaller market that will take longer to grow to SYD/MEL size in terms of frequency. If they add any further flights from BNE, they will almost certainly be dedicated nonstop services.

PER is a different situation because its so much closer to DXB. ADL is also a different situation because EK is such a vastly different airline now, and no longer needs to build the market with supporting stops.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 111):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 112):
The thrice weekly direct service (QF175/176) commenced in June 2004. The flights renumbered in 2011...

I flew on the domestic sector of this flight a week or two after it started. The aircraft originated in SYD, and it would have been quite excited if I had even remotely cared about this sort of thing back then! It's probably the closest I've ever come to an inaugural, and I barely remember a thing!


User currently offlineqantas747 From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 120, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 6348 times:

I smell a qf dxb flight with a 787 as the next growth step. Alongside ek upgauging to a 380....

User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 121, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 6311 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting qantas747 (Reply 120):

On what routes do you see a QF B787/EK A380? Direct/1 stop? QF is going DXB bound for Europe flights but with what aircraft? Maybe the same aircraft as what was SIN operated or a mixture of QF/EK aircraft operating each others flights?


User currently offlineSYDSpotter From Australia, joined Oct 2012, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 6310 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 121):
On what routes do you see a QF B787/EK A380? Direct/1 stop? QF is going DXB bound for Europe flights but with what aircraft? Maybe the same aircraft as what was SIN operated or a mixture of QF/EK aircraft operating each others flights?

I would guess PER and BNE, maybe ADL? The 787 would be the perfect aircraft to feed into DXB from theses, linking up with QF's A380 LHR services from SYD/MEL and also EK's vast network. It would I guess be a similar situation to what currently happens with QF feeding it's LHR/FRA flights in SIN with the PER/BNE/ADL feeds.

QF probably don't mind giving up a chunk of revenue to EK by feeding to it's hub given the OZ-DXB leg is the longest leg (and therefore assume would generate more revenue than the DXB-Europe, DXB-Africa portions.



319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W
User currently offlineflylonghaul From Australia, joined Feb 2010, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 123, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 6304 times:

Not surprising exactly, but QF flights direct to DXB are now fully bookable from 31st March
Return Y seats are being priced at $2059 return.
My guess is that QF will not release any proper sale prices until they get regulatory approval?



Flying for Pleasure
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 124, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 6307 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 122):

Wonder if the QF/EK deal will see AKL-DXB direct launching? Perfect competition for NZ code-share with EY for Europe/UK travel


User currently offlineSYDSpotter From Australia, joined Oct 2012, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 125, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 6310 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 124):
Wonder if the QF/EK deal will see AKL-DXB direct launching? Perfect competition for NZ code-share with EY for Europe/UK travel

Hmm not sure it will. The existing AKL-SYD-DXB works fine as it stands. I think there is also an issue from a practical point of view, AKL-DXB non-stop would be stretching the limits of both the A380 and/or 77W. You would need a 77L to do it comfortably and you would need it to be fairly high yielding given it is ultra-long haul flight.



319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 126, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6303 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 124):

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 122):

Wonder if the QF/EK deal will see AKL-DXB direct launching? Perfect competition for NZ code-share with EY for Europe/UK travel

Even if the aircraft was capable EK would need to drop one of the tag on flights from either SYD, MEL or BNE...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24996 posts, RR: 85
Reply 127, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6341 times:
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Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 125):

Hmm not sure it will. The existing AKL-SYD-DXB works fine as it stands.

  

It gets the double whammy - folk going to DXB, sure, but also a fair whack of folk going just to Australia. I'm not sure there is sufficient, in either case, for one without the other.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5173 posts, RR: 4
Reply 128, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6334 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 124):
Perfect competition for NZ code-share with EY for Europe/UK travel

In case you missed the memo, NZ signed on with CX last week. They're not going to be interested in agreement with EY soon.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2948 posts, RR: 2
Reply 129, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6332 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 121):
On what routes do you see a QF B787

CBR. I'm yet to be convinced its a great idea, but Alan Joyce did quite specifically mention the possibility of opening international long haul from CBR during a Q&A session a few weeks ago, and EK's planes are all too big and too thirsty to make a CBR-DXB route work.

The was a lot of discussion after the announcement about QF potentially opening up more European services alongside EK, and if they want to use 787s then they will almost definitely have to start a few more flights from Australia.


User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2914 posts, RR: 20
Reply 130, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6338 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 129):
The was a lot of discussion after the announcement about QF potentially opening up more European services alongside EK, and if they want to use 787s then they will almost definitely have to start a few more flights from Australia.

The problem for EK is going to be obtaining more air rights in places like Australia once their max is reached. So it becomes imperative, with a partner like QF, that they utilise that partner to add frequencies once the limit is done.

Otherwise there are plenty of QF uses for the 789 across the Pacific and into Asia.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 131, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6321 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 129):
The was a lot of discussion after the announcement about QF potentially opening up more European services alongside EK, and if they want to use 787s then they will almost definitely have to start a few more flights from Australia.

With EKs Australian capacity reaching it's limits I wouldn't be surprised to see QF provide the extra capacity ex-BNE, ADL, & PER utilizing their B787s once they come online in 2016... Plus the remaining A380s which have been deferred until 2020...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5173 posts, RR: 4
Reply 132, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6302 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 129):
I'm yet to be convinced its a great idea, but Alan Joyce did quite specifically mention the possibility of opening international long haul from CBR during a Q&A session a few weeks ago

I personally think that the demand is there, and that as a niche route it could work. That said, I think it is more likely that we will see CBR-SIN-DXB. That would provide links to both Asia and Europe, and serving both markets would help fill the plane. While the stop in SIN isn't as convenient as CBR-DXB, you have to make 2 stops anyway and SIN is definitely preferable to SYD, and hundreds of people two-stop on EK everyday anyway.

Quoting sydscott (Reply 130):
The problem for EK is going to be obtaining more air rights in places like Australia once their max is reached. So it becomes imperative, with a partner like QF, that they utilise that partner to add frequencies once the limit is done.

I agree. Assuming that the Australian government doesn't increase bilateral rights any time soon then they are going to be dependent on QF. This actually, though, works in EK's favour: as it isn't a revenue shearing agreement they are, in effect, forgoing all the potential revenue from BNE, PER and ADL. Flying from PER and BNE to DXB on their own metal will allow them to pick up some very low-risk revenue.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8861 posts, RR: 75
Reply 133, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6318 times:

Todays AFR has an article in it saying the Dixon and co are trying to put a deal together again to take over QF. Seems this has been running in parallel with the plan AJ has had with EK. One of the key differences between the two seems to be on how they approach the Asian networks, AJ seems to be trying to establish itself with mainland Chinese carriers, where Dixon seems to be more aligned to current oneworld carriers.

Quote:
The plan would add more direct routes and frequencies between Australia and Asia’s booming business capitals. The group of investors is understood to recognise the benefits of the recent alliance with Emirates for solving Qantas’s network issues in Europe, but questioned the financial returns. They are more focused on securing a tie-up with an Asian carrier such as Cathay Pacific to lock down the regional market. They would also give priority to delivery of the fuel-efficient Boeing Dreamliner to Qantas International rather than Jetstar.

Sources close to the plan have said the decision on whether to proceed was not dependent on funding. It is more about whether the group can gain enough support to formulate a new strategy for the struggling carrier. A 10 per cent stake in Qantas would cost $284.3 million based on Friday’s closing price.

It is believed Mr Gregg and Mr Carnegie about two months ago held a series of briefings with union groups, including those representing Qantas pilots, engineers and ground workers, in a bid to secure their support. Core Qantas investors to have been briefed on the plan include Balanced Equity Management. It is understood the asset manager stressed its support for Mr Joyce and his five-year restructuring program for the loss-making Qantas International division.

Mr Gregg, who is now the chief financial officer at Leighton Holdings, and Mr Dixon declined to comment. Mr Fox did not return calls. Mr Fox is the financial backer most recently linked to the group, while Mr Singleton is a long-term associate and co-investor of the trio. Qantas shares closed at $1.26 on Friday.

source AFR article "Carnegie, Gregg may challenge Joyce’s Qantas plan" http://afr.com/p/business/companies/...lenge_joyce_i9bm9SieKXLIUculg9wbaP



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5173 posts, RR: 4
Reply 134, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6312 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 133):

Interesting. I personally hope it doesn't happen, as I'm starting to see the logic in Joyce's madness and feel that he should be given the opportunity to finish the structural realignment that he started.

I can't help but find the whole thing slightly ideological. Zeke, as you probably know better than a lot of people QF and CX aren't exactly best buddies, and AJ tried to get some sort of agreement with MH before the two sides parted company. Therefore planning to build a strategy out of relations with CX and/or MH is ignoring history. As for JL, Japan is simply to far north to be of any benefit to QF. Sure, NRT is an ideal connecting hub from North America, but not Australia.

As much as I like CX, if QF can do a deal with MU then I think that is just as good. It would give them pretty broad Chinese coverage, and allow them to expand in the East Asia region regardless of CX.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24996 posts, RR: 85
Reply 135, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6306 times:
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Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 134):
Interesting. I personally hope it doesn't happen, as I'm starting to see the logic in Joyce's madness and feel that he should be given the opportunity to finish the structural realignment that he started.

I agree.

I wish the blowhards would stop trying to run Qantas and let Alan Joyce do his job.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 136, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6295 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 135):
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 134):
Interesting. I personally hope it doesn't happen, as I'm starting to see the logic in Joyce's madness and feel that he should be given the opportunity to finish the structural realignment that he started.

I agree.

I wish the blowhards would stop trying to run Qantas and let Alan Joyce do his job.

mariner

I must agree... My comments from the past would otherwise disagree but I'm beginning to like the guy and his drive to bring the national carrier to profitability is certainly evident...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5173 posts, RR: 4
Reply 137, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6298 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 136):
My comments from the past would otherwise disagree but I'm beginning to like the guy

   100% agree   

I wasn't writing the most flattering things about him 12 months ago, but a lot has changed since then



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2914 posts, RR: 20
Reply 138, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6306 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 137):
I wasn't writing the most flattering things about him 12 months ago, but a lot has changed since then

Funny how Tim Clark can make things like good.............

Quoting mariner (Reply 135):
I wish the blowhards would stop trying to run Qantas and let Alan Joyce do his job.

By all accounts Geoff Dixon and Alan Joyce are quite close friends. They have dinner together regularly, and it's been reported on, so I can't imagine Geoff Dixon would be shaking things up without Joyce knowing about it.

And Peter Gregg at Leightons should be focused on cleaning up the utter mess that Company is in rather than taking on his old employer.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5173 posts, RR: 4
Reply 139, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6297 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 138):
Funny how Tim Clark can make things like good

That's a bit disingenuous, I started re-appraising my opinion of him in about March, and the record will show that I have was more positive towards his leadership and the direction that QF is going in several months before the EK tie-up.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24996 posts, RR: 85
Reply 140, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6301 times:
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Quoting sydscott (Reply 138):
By all accounts Geoff Dixon and Alan Joyce are quite close friends. They have dinner together regularly, and it's been reported on, so I can't imagine Geoff Dixon would be shaking things up without Joyce knowing about it.

I hope that's the case and I hope nothing comes of this.

My respect for Alan Joyce went up a thousandfold when he ordered the grounding and I think he proved he had the big iron balls to make the tough decisions as well as the more visionary ones.

I think it is unfortunate that the vision may be at odds with what the blowhards want - (and I include Ben Sandilands among the blowhards) - and I really don't understand or sympathize with this new "partial purchase" deal. It sounds like a trial balloon

I think Tim Clarke got it right: “They will always be in the wings,” Mr Clark said of the group. “If they have retired, retire.”

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2914 posts, RR: 20
Reply 141, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6297 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 139):
That's a bit disingenuous, I started re-appraising my opinion of him in about March, and the record will show that I have was more positive towards his leadership and the direction that QF is going in several months before the EK tie-up.

LOL I've been a consistent supporter of Alan Joyce and his strategy and I'm pretty sure my record on here will back that. I'm happy that others are re-appraising him and the strategy he is looking to employ. But still, it's funny how a photo op with Tim Clark can cement alot of changing attitudes towards Alan Joyce. Hopefully the EK deal proves visionary and the changed opinion of Alan Joyce is backed up by QF financial and operationing results. That's the next test!

Quoting mariner (Reply 140):
My respect for Alan Joyce went up a thousandfold when he ordered the grounding and I think he proved he had the big iron balls to make the tough decisions as well as the more visionary ones.

I've been accused of being an apologist for him but, like you Mariner, I've been a long time supporter and proponent of his vision. There are no easy decisions to be made and, if anything, Joyce has had the guts to make the calls that Geoff Dixon wouldn't or couldn't. So I don't think Dixon, Peter Gregg or any halfwit Macquarie Banker should be let anywhere near Qantas.........yet. Not until we see where this whole EK thing is going AND we see the results from the revamped Asia service. Then let the chips fall where they may.


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2948 posts, RR: 2
Reply 142, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6291 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 141):
it's funny how a photo op with Tim Clark can cement alot of changing attitudes towards Alan Joyce. Hopefully the EK deal proves visionary and the changed opinion of Alan Joyce is backed up by QF financial and operationing results. That's the next test!

I think you're being a little cynical. The EK announcement was a turning point because of what it symbolises, and because it represents QF actually doing something to vastly change direction/strategy rather than just flapping around complaining.

The reaction would have been the same whether Tim Clark had been there for the announcement or not.


User currently offlineJQflightie From Australia, joined Mar 2009, 945 posts, RR: 1
Reply 143, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6295 times:

remember Dixon started this mess.... we dont want him in Power! AJ + Co are doing a great job, i see where they are going now, if Dixon (im refaining from saying what i really want to call him) + Co come back to power, you really think that he would give the 787's to QF and not JQ? Remember who was in power when they started JQ..... AJ+Co = Success of our national carrier (and my workplace) im very excited where the future is taking us! Dixon+Co = Certain Death.... just saying..


Next Trip: PER-DPS-LOP-CGK-KUL-PVG-LHR, LCY-MAD-VLC, BCN-LYS-TLS-IST-JED-KUL-SGN-CAN-MEL
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2914 posts, RR: 20
Reply 144, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6314 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 142):
I think you're being a little cynical. The EK announcement was a turning point because of what it symbolises, and because it represents QF actually doing something to vastly change direction/strategy rather than just flapping around complaining.

My point is that even without the EK deal there were lots of things happening anyway and QF was actually "doing something". Tough decisions were being made and the status quo was being questioned by a CEO who was left eating a poop sandwich by his predecessors. The EK deal was the icing on the cake that made the whole thing like nice and pretty. But the difficult decisions in refocusing the fleet, getting rid of surplus assets, beginning the rationalisation of maintenance, catering, routes, dealing with the Labour issues etc had all been done or were well in train by the time the EK deal came along. What EK allows is the only thing missing from the puzzle, putting Jetstar to one side for a moment, which is a growth strategy for QF International which ties all of the rest of picture together.

That's why I wasn't cynical, on this board or elsewhere, about where Joyce was taking QF. It was clear he had a vision even if he wasn't sharing it. Now that he has, and now that opinions are changing, I'm hopeful that he can execute and fulfill it. Because that would truly be a legacy to pass on to the next CEO.

And if he didn't pull off the EK deal, then QR is headed to OW and into bed with BA. So frankly I think Tim Clark has been exceptionally smart in this deal as well by stitching up his feed in this area of the world before QR could get both feet firmly in the water and into the QF Frequent Flyer scheme.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 145, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6320 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 142):
Quoting JQflightie (Reply 143):

Agreed and Agreed...

If this take over drive is successful & I for one certainly hope it's not successful it would mean the end of the flying kangaroos...
For heaven sake let AJ do his job... His steering the airline in the right direction and the EK tieup was the turning point...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5173 posts, RR: 4
Reply 146, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6336 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 144):
I'm hopeful that he can execute and fulfill it. Because that would truly be a legacy to pass on to the next CEO.

Amen to that.

Quoting sydscott (Reply 144):
Tough decisions were being made and the status quo was being questioned by a CEO who was left eating a poop sandwich by his predecessors

I agree in hindsight. It's just at the time it appeared to a lot of people that Joyce was taking a knife to everything in sight while the only part of the business that was growing was JetStar. This invariably led to people being confused about the future direction of the airline.

I think we can all agree that we want what is best for Qantas. It is good that, at last, people are starting to come together behind Joyce's leadership, and hopefully everyone can move forward from here together, putting the last couple of years behind them.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24996 posts, RR: 85
Reply 147, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6358 times:
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Quoting qf002 (Reply 142):
The EK announcement was a turning point because of what it symbolises, and because it represents QF actually doing something to vastly change direction/strategy rather than just flapping around complaining.

I think that if Mr. Joyce made a mistake, it was in under-estimating the forces arrayed against him, how determined they were to bring him down (and still may be), and in thinking that his armour was the truth.

I suspect he's learned a very valuable lesson from that experience.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2914 posts, RR: 20
Reply 148, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6354 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 147):
how determined they were to bring him down (and still may be), and in thinking that his armour was the truth.

I suspect he's learned a very valuable lesson from that experience.

Lets us also not underestimate Leigh Cliffords role in that equation. I'd love to see him see off Geoff Dixon and Co, if that were to happen, the same way he did the Unions at Rio. I don't think we yet fully appreciate the strength that he brings to the Board and his role in giving Alan Joyce the backing he needed with the Board in order to do what is currently being done.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 146):
I think we can all agree that we want what is best for Qantas. It is good that, at last, people are starting to come together behind Joyce's leadership, and hopefully everyone can move forward from here together, putting the last couple of years behind them.

On that we entirely agree.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24996 posts, RR: 85
Reply 149, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6349 times:
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Quoting sydscott (Reply 148):
Lets us also not underestimate Leigh Cliffords role in that equation. I'd love to see him see off Geoff Dixon and Co, if that were to happen, the same way he did the Unions at Rio.

I agree.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 150, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6384 times:

For anyone interested...

DJ shareholders advised to vote against exec pay – CGI Glass Lewis has advised Virgin Australia shareholders to vote against the remuneration of the company’s executives at its Annual General Meeting on Friday. The CEO John Borghetti’s pay rose by 45 per cent to $4.07 million. CGI said: “Given the CEO's high remuneration and the lack of justification for such levels we cannot recommend shareholders support the remuneration report.” This year, Alan Joyce’s salary was 44 per cent lower than last year. Alan was entitled to a bonus, however he declined this. Alan also chose not to participate in the 2012 base pay review and his base pay will remain unchanged in 2012/13.

I guess JB has not performed as expected therefore his 45% pay increase has been denied by shareholders...

Would appear BA are introducing the B77W to the Kangaroo route sooner than expected too...

BA introduces B777 on kangaroo route – British Airways has introduced the airline's newest aircraft, the Boeing 777-300 ER, on the Australia to London route for summer. The flights will move from Heathrow's Terminal 3 to Terminal 5.

EK413

[Edited 2012-11-18 22:48:05]


Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5173 posts, RR: 4
Reply 151, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6377 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 150):
The CEO John Borghetti’s pay rose by 45 per cent to $4.07 million. CGI said: “Given the CEO's high remuneration and the lack of justification for such levels we cannot recommend shareholders support the remuneration report.”

I'm normally not overly concerned with executive pay (I once argued with my mother over the CEO of HSBC earning $12mn) but I actually agree with this.

While VAH have got lots of nice shiny planes and pretty products, this hasn't yet really translated into anything on the bottom line. At the end of the day the CEO should be remunerated for the company's financial performance, not how many planes are white and fitted with J.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 152, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6433 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 151):

        

A dedicated thread has been started...

Rival Plan To Take On Qantas CEO Alan Joyce (by jetfuel Nov 18 2012 in Civil Aviation)

EK413

[Edited 2012-11-19 00:31:24]


Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 915 posts, RR: 2
Reply 153, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6394 times:

Gents, I have always had belief in AJ (all my posts bear that out), and I welcome those who have had a rethink of their views. I posted some years ago that the Australian Airline scene in 10 years would be vastly different, however I too have erred, it will be much sooner than that. I hope and pray this "other mob" don't get up, we just missed out on a QF catastrophe in 2007, QF don't want them now. QF has a CEO with balls, anything else at this time would be a retrograde step. QF most certainly does not need one who caves into unions, etc etc, and who shirks the hard decisions.


remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 154, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6375 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 151):
I'm normally not overly concerned with executive pay (I once argued with my mother over the CEO of HSBC earning $12mn) but I actually agree with this.

I'm afraid I need to agree with you however on the conditions they perform and meet their expectations... Which in VA case I don't see why a 45% pay increase is justified...

Quoting TN486 (Reply 153):
Gents, I have always had belief in AJ (all my posts bear that out), and I welcome those who have had a rethink of their views.

Ok ok no need to rub our faces in the sand lol...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2948 posts, RR: 2
Reply 155, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6351 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 147):
I suspect he's learned a very valuable lesson from that experience.

I agree.

Quoting sydscott (Reply 144):
My point is that even without the EK deal there were lots of things happening anyway and QF was actually "doing something".

Not refuting anything you say. If you look at posts I've made in the past, you'll see that I've been a fierce supporter of what QF is doing.

But the EK deal has acted as a relaunch of sorts for International. It's all well and good doing behind the scenes stuff, but it's no use doing that if you don't fix things that are fundamentally wrong on the surface. I don't see the EK deal as the pretty icing on the top, I see it (and the subsequent changes to Asia) being the thing that brings everything QF has done together.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 150):
I guess JB has not performed as expected therefore his 45% pay increase has been denied by shareholders...

Quite the opposite, it will be approved because Borghetti has the support of the three biggest shareholders (Virgin Group, EY and NZ). I think it's absurd that the CEO of VA should be paid a similar amount to the CEO of QF. To earn almost 20% of the total annual profits of the company isn't right IMO.

This report is simply an urge to their shareholders to vote against it. Similar ones were made last year, something like 20% voted against JB's salary, which is significant but never going to see it overturned.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 150):
Would appear BA are introducing the B77W to the Kangaroo route sooner than expected too...

I think your quote refers to the northern summer, which would be consistent with a March/April commencement.