legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1832 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1704 times:
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 1): SFO and LAX seems planned; SFO for the whole summer and LAX for 2 months.
alphaomega From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 532 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1706 times:
Quoting factsonly (Reply 4): On average this winter KLM has just 4x MD11 departures per day, with 6x aircraft.
Their MD11s are utilized on most routes as replacement aircraft should there be a tech issue with a scheduled 777 or 330. The 747 combi's will also see action on this end.
unattendedbag From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2240 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1704 times:
Any chance ATL will see KL MD-11 service again next summer?
joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3128 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1704 times:
Quoting alphaomega (Reply 6):
Their MD11s are utilized on most routes as replacement aircraft should there be a tech issue with a scheduled 777 or 330. The 747 combi's will also see action on this end.
No they are not. They non-used airframes are only used to replace other M11s that go tech, but they aren't used to sub cancelled 777s, 330s or 747s. And they are occasionally used for charter flights.
The reason is that it's simply impossible, because of crew regulations. When you bring a M11 to - let's say - NRT, there won't be a crew available to fly it back. It's not allowed to take the return crew with you on the outbound leg, they must already be there.
When you have aircraft out of the fleet because of scheduled maintenance, it's a different story, as you can fly the crew in advance to the destination. But for unscheduled maintenance, for long-haul flights, you cannot just send another kind of airframe.
Airframe substitution and reserve crew allocation is a very complex matter. Most large airlines have reserve crews in different locations in the world to deal with this matter. As reserve crew is expensive, this is an important reason why airlines love crew commonality.
joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3128 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1704 times:
Quoting Focker (Reply 9): Is that just KL regulation, or common practice/regulation?
I have met SU flight crew on one of their longhaul flights and they told me they were supposed to fly the return leg.
AFAIK, it's a combination. There is a legal minimum on-ground time for crew before they are considered to be fit to fly back, but IIRC, KL maintains a longer time frame than legally required.
It's not unseen that flights that have a very long ground time can be flown back by crew. I remember having heard that for KL's AMS-LAD flight (14:05 hours on-ground at LAD), they use this practice.
capri From Morocco, joined Sep 2003, 280 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1704 times:
Quoting joost (Reply 10): It's not unseen that flights that have a very long ground time can be flown back by crew. I remember having heard that for KL's AMS-LAD flight (14:05 hours on-ground at LAD), they use this practice.
Also BA have their crew bring back same flights for LHR-LAD, they have 19hrs on ground
"i may not know everything, but i try to know a bit of everything"
factsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 312 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1704 times:
Quoting joost (Reply 8): No they are not. They non-used airframes are only used to replace other M11s that go tech, but they aren't used to sub cancelled 777s, 330s or 747s. And they are occasionally used for charter flights.
Though you are correct, it does happen very occasionally.
Last Saturday KLM operated a MD11 to Houston as a replacement for the B744. This was only possible as a 'return' crew could be flown in from SFO, YUL or another station.
Amsterdam Schiphol Airport:
- Sat 3 Nov. KL 0661 Houston dep. 10:10 MD-11 KLM Royal Dutch Airlines PH-KCD gate D02
- Sun 4 Nov. KL 0662 Houston arr. 07:45 MD-11 KLM Royal Dutch Airlines PH-KCD gate E04
bwest From Belgium, joined Jul 2006, 1314 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1704 times:
I'm planning a trip to the US west coast in May next year and would love to fly the KLM MD11... any suggestions on what routing I should take to maximize my chances on getting the threeholer?
redzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 276 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (6 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1704 times:
Quoting as739x (Reply 5): SFO runs as a MD11 during the winter.
Doh! I just booked a trip to Europe for December, taking DL's 332 on MSP-AMS. When I checked the KL/AF options a few weeks ago, KL was showing a 330 on SFO-AMS. That's what I have in my notes anyway. If the M11 had been there, I would have added the extra leg to get it. It's definitely an M11 in the schedule now. Maybe I can still change...
Currently they are utilising the MD11 from AMS-SFO-AMS, so I would watch out for the next schedule release to see if they keep it on the route next spring/summer.
My apologies.. Was looking at the wrong schedule. However, KLM changes things around so much that I wouldn't expect it to stay the same all the way through to March.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1832 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (6 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1704 times:
I am certain KL will use the 744 during the Spring to Fall season on the SFO route. The MD11 is too small, seat wise, for the SFO route during the summer season. The only other aircraft they have used during the summer was a 77W.
Sponsor Message: 
From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 169 posts, 
From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 5672 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1832 posts, 
From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 312 posts, 
From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3128 posts, 
From Morocco, joined Sep 2003, 280 posts, 
From Belgium, joined Jul 2006, 1314 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
