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KLM MD11 Summer 2013?  
User currently offlineYYZAMS From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 229 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6190 times:

Where is the KLM MD11 going to fly in summer 2013?

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

SFO and LAX seems planned; SFO for the whole summer and LAX for 2 months.


It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineYXD172 From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

Looks like they're still using it to YUL as well! I think I might try to catch it this year, before they all retire...


Radial engines don't leak oil, they are just marking their territory!
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2087 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 1):
SFO and LAX seems planned; SFO for the whole summer and LAX for 2 months.

SFO is not going to be the usual 744 or 772?



John@SFO
User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 941 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

In the current KLM Summer 2013 schedule the M11 is planned to operate the following flights from AMS:

- dep. 15:25 AMS 16:45 YUL KL 0671 Non-Stop Daily
- dep. 15:30 AMS 23:10 IKA KL 0433 Non-Stop 4x/week
- dep. 17:40 AMS 19:40 YYZ KL 0695 Non-Stop 3x/week

This schedule would utilise just 3x aircraft, while KLM plans to maintain 6x MD11 in Summer 2013.

In Winter 2012/2013 the aircraft is also operated to:
- SFO - 5x/week
- HAV - 3x/week

On average this winter KLM has just 4x MD11 departures per day, with 6x aircraft.


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6161 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 1):
SFO and LAX seems planned; SFO for the whole summer and LAX for 2 months.

SFO runs as a MD11 during the winter. The flight will be a 744 in summer 2013 as usual.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinealphaomega From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6198 times:

Quoting factsonly (Reply 4):
On average this winter KLM has just 4x MD11 departures per day, with 6x aircraft.

Their MD11s are utilized on most routes as replacement aircraft should there be a tech issue with a scheduled 777 or 330. The 747 combi's will also see action on this end.


User currently offlineunattendedbag From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6196 times:

Any chance ATL will see KL MD-11 service again next summer?


Slower traffic, keep right
User currently offlinejoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3171 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 6):

Their MD11s are utilized on most routes as replacement aircraft should there be a tech issue with a scheduled 777 or 330. The 747 combi's will also see action on this end.

No they are not. They non-used airframes are only used to replace other M11s that go tech, but they aren't used to sub cancelled 777s, 330s or 747s. And they are occasionally used for charter flights.

The reason is that it's simply impossible, because of crew regulations. When you bring a M11 to - let's say - NRT, there won't be a crew available to fly it back. It's not allowed to take the return crew with you on the outbound leg, they must already be there.

When you have aircraft out of the fleet because of scheduled maintenance, it's a different story, as you can fly the crew in advance to the destination. But for unscheduled maintenance, for long-haul flights, you cannot just send another kind of airframe.

Airframe substitution and reserve crew allocation is a very complex matter. Most large airlines have reserve crews in different locations in the world to deal with this matter. As reserve crew is expensive, this is an important reason why airlines love crew commonality.


User currently offlineFocker From Netherlands, joined Jan 2011, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

Quoting joost (Reply 8):
It's not allowed to take the return crew with you on the outbound leg, they must already be there.

Is that just KL regulation, or common practice/regulation?

I have met SU flight crew on one of their longhaul flights and they told me they were supposed to fly the return leg.


User currently offlinejoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3171 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

Quoting Focker (Reply 9):
Is that just KL regulation, or common practice/regulation?
I have met SU flight crew on one of their longhaul flights and they told me they were supposed to fly the return leg.

AFAIK, it's a combination. There is a legal minimum on-ground time for crew before they are considered to be fit to fly back, but IIRC, KL maintains a longer time frame than legally required.

It's not unseen that flights that have a very long ground time can be flown back by crew. I remember having heard that for KL's AMS-LAD flight (14:05 hours on-ground at LAD), they use this practice.


User currently offlinecapri From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 450 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

Quoting joost (Reply 10):
It's not unseen that flights that have a very long ground time can be flown back by crew. I remember having heard that for KL's AMS-LAD flight (14:05 hours on-ground at LAD), they use this practice.

Also BA have their crew bring back same flights for LHR-LAD, they have 19hrs on ground


User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 941 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

Quoting joost (Reply 8):
No they are not. They non-used airframes are only used to replace other M11s that go tech, but they aren't used to sub cancelled 777s, 330s or 747s. And they are occasionally used for charter flights.

Though you are correct, it does happen very occasionally.

Last Saturday KLM operated a MD11 to Houston as a replacement for the B744. This was only possible as a 'return' crew could be flown in from SFO, YUL or another station.

Amsterdam Schiphol Airport:
- Sat 3 Nov. KL 0661 Houston dep. 10:10 MD-11 KLM Royal Dutch Airlines PH-KCD gate D02
- Sun 4 Nov. KL 0662 Houston arr. 07:45 MD-11 KLM Royal Dutch Airlines PH-KCD gate E04


User currently onlinebwest From Belgium, joined Jul 2006, 1372 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

I'm planning a trip to the US west coast in May next year and would love to fly the KLM MD11... any suggestions on what routing I should take to maximize my chances on getting the threeholer?


I love my Airport Job! :)
User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 5):
SFO runs as a MD11 during the winter.

Doh! I just booked a trip to Europe for December, taking DL's 332 on MSP-AMS. When I checked the KL/AF options a few weeks ago, KL was showing a 330 on SFO-AMS. That's what I have in my notes anyway. If the M11 had been there, I would have added the extra leg to get it. It's definitely an M11 in the schedule now. Maybe I can still change...



Flown: DL,OS,NZ,UN,VV,NW,AA,UA,HP,TZ,AS,AF,KL,SK,WS,AZ,OK; op by OO,MQ,XJ,9E,G7,EV,QX,RP
User currently offlineaudidudi From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

Quoting bwest (Reply 13):

Currently they are utilising the MD11 from AMS-SFO-AMS, so I would watch out for the next schedule release to see if they keep it on the route next spring/summer.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 5):

My apologies.. Was looking at the wrong schedule. However, KLM changes things around so much that I wouldn't expect it to stay the same all the way through to March.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2087 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

I am certain KL will use the 744 during the Spring to Fall season on the SFO route. The MD11 is too small, seat wise, for the SFO route during the summer season. The only other aircraft they have used during the summer was a 77W.


John@SFO
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