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OAG Changes 11/9/2012: AA/AS/DL/F9/UA/US  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7111 posts, RR: 13
Posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2378 times:

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5 days out of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

9V MIA-BLA DEC 0.8>1.0 JAN 0.8>1.0

*AA DFW-BPT FEB 0>3 MAR 0>4 APR 0>4 MAY 0>4 JUN 0>4 JUL 0>4
*AA DFW-COU FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.8 APR 0>1.9 MAY 0>1.9 JUN 0>1.8 JUL 0>1.9
*AA DFW-FAR MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0
*AA DFW-ICN MAY 0>0.7 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0
*AA DFW-LIM APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0
*AA JFK-DUB JUN 0>0.6 JUL 0>1.0
*AA ORD-COU MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0
*AA ORD-DUS APR 0>0.7 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0

AM DEN-MEX JAN 0.5>0.7
AM LAX-GDL JAN 1.8>1.0 FEB 2>1.0 MAR 2>1.0 APR 2>1.0 MAY 2>1.0 JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0

*AS LAX-LAP MAR 0.4>0.2 APR 0.4>0.0 MAY 0.4>0 JUN 0.4>0 JUL 0.5>0
AS LAX-LTO MAR 0.7>1.0 APR 0.7>1.0
AS LAX-STS JUN 1.8>3 JUL 1.9>3
AS PDX-BIL JUL 1.0>0.7
*AS SEA-SLC APR 0>1.8 MAY 0>2 JUN 0>2 JUL 0>2

BA PHX-LHR APR 0.9>1.0 MAY 0.8>1.0 JUN 0.9>1.0 JUL 0.8>1.0

BB SJU-VQS DEC 0.6>0 JAN 0.5>0.2
BB VQS-SJU DEC 0.6>0 JAN 0.5>0.2

DL ATL-BOG JUN 1.0>1.8 JUL 1.0>2
DL BOS-CMH JAN 1.6>0.8 FEB 1.7>1.3
DL DTW-NGO MAY 0.7>0.9 JUN 0.7>1.0 JUL 0.7>1.0
DL JFK-CHS MAR 1.0>2 APR 1.0>2 MAY 1.0>2 JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2
DL JFK-IST APR 0>0.1 MAY 0.3>1.0
DL LAX-JFK MAR 8>7 APR 8>7 MAY 8>7 JUN 8>7 JUL 8>7
DL LGA-CLE JAN 5>4
DL MEM-MCO JAN 3>1.8
DL MOT-MSP MAR 8>7 APR 8>7 MAY 8>7
Uh oh...
*DL PIT-CDG MAY 0.7>0.5 JUN 1.0>0.7 JUL 1.0>0.7
DL SPN-NRT JUN 3>2

Looks like NK is driving F9 out of another market in peak season.
F9 DEN-BIL JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 0.9>0 MAR 0.8>0 APR 0.9>0
F9 DEN-FLL FEB 2>1.0 MAR 2>1.0 APR 1.6>1.0

FL MCO-SJU APR 3>1.3 MAY 3>0
FL SJU-TPA APR 1.0>0.4 MAY 1.0>0

G3 MIA-SDQ DEC 0>0.5 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>0.8 APR 0>0.7 MAY 0>0.7 JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>1.0

IB LAX-MAD MAR 0.4>0

JJ MCO-GRU JAN 2>3
JJ MIA-BSB DEC 0.6>0.7 JAN 0.5>0.8
JJ MIA-GIG DEC 1.0>1.3 JAN 1.0>1.5
JJ MIA-MAO JAN 1.0>1.2

KE DFW-ICN MAY 0.7>1.0 JUN 0.7>1.0 JUL 0.7>1.0

OR LAX-AMS JUN 0.1>0.3 JUL 0.2>0.3
OR MIA-AMS MAY 0.1>0.3 JUN 0.1>0.3 JUL 0.2>0.5
OR OAK-AMS JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1

P7 ROR-HKG DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3 MAR 0>0.3 APR 0>0.3 MAY 0>0.3 JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3
P7 ROR-TPE DEC 0.6>0.4 JAN 0.5>0.4 FEB 0.6>0.4 MAR 0.6>0.4 APR 0.6>0.4 MAY 0.6>0.5 JUN 0.6>0.4 JUL 0.6>0.5

PR GUM-MNL DEC 0.7>3 JAN 0.7>3 FEB 0.7>3 MAR 0.7>3 APR 0.7>4 MAY 0.7>3 JUN 0.7>3 JUL 0.7>3

UA EWR-AVL APR 0.7>0
UA EWR-BDA JUN 1.0>1.3 JUL 1.0>1.4
UA EWR-GSO MAR 4>3
UA EWR-MCI MAR 5>4
UA EWR-MHT MAR 4>3
UA EWR-MSP MAR 6>5
UA EWR-NAS APR 1.1>3 MAY 1.0>2 JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2
UA EWR-PHL MAR 4>3
UA EWR-SAV MAR 3>1.7
UA EWR-SEA MAR 2>3
UA EWR-YVR JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>1.0
UA IAH-ACA JUL 0.7>1.0
UA IAH-LIR APR 1.8>3 JUN 1.8>3 JUL 2>3
UA IAH-MBJ JUN 0.9>1.0 JUL 1.0>1.1
UA IAH-MGA JUN 2.0>3 JUL 2>3
UA IAH-SAL JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3
UA IAH-SAP APR 1.1>1.3 MAY 1.0>1.3 JUN 1.0>1.9 JUL 1.0>2
UA IAH-SJD MAY 1.7>1.8 JUN 1.7>3 JUL 1.7>1.9
UA LAX-ITO MAR 1.0>0.7
UA LAX-ITO MAR 1.0>0.7
UA LAX-KOA MAR 2>1.7
UA LAX-PIT MAR 1.0>0.7
UA ORD-YVR APR 4>3
UA SFO-KOA MAR 2>1.9

UN JFK-DME FEB 0.3>0.4 MAR 0.4>0.5
UN LAX-DME FEB 0.3>0.1 MAR 0.3>0.2

UP MIA-NAS MAY 3>4 JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4

US BOS-CUN JUN 0>0.2 JUL 0>0.1
US CLT-MYR FEB 8>9
US DCA-ORF FEB 4>5
US DCA-YOW FEB 1.8>1.5
Interesting. Smaller planes or do they sniff B6 on the route?
*US PHL-BOS FEB 16>18 MAR 15>17 APR 15>18 MAY 15>18 JUN 15>17 JUL 15>18
US PHL-EWR FEB 6>7
US PHL-GSO FEB 6>5
US PHL-MDT FEB 8>7
US PHL-RDU FEB 8>7
*US PHL-SNN MAY 0>0.3 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0
US PHL-YOW FEB 4>3
US PHX-FLG FEB 6>5
US PHX-LAS FEB 10>8 MAR 11>8 APR 11>8 MAY 11>8 JUN 11>8 JUL 11>8

W3 JFK-LOS APR 0>0.4 MAY 0>0.4 JUN 0>0.4 JUL 0>0.4

WP HNL-JHM DEC 5>4
WP HNL-KOA JAN 0>0.4 FEB 0>0.4 MAR 0>0.5 APR 0>0.4 MAY 0>0.4 JUN 0>0.5 JUL 0>0.4
WP HNL-LIH DEC 1.0>2.0 JAN 1.0>3 FEB 1.0>3 MAR 1.0>3 APR 1.0>3 MAY 1.0>3 JUN 1.0>3 JUL 1.0>3
WP HNL-LNY DEC 5>3
WP HNL-MKK DEC 6>5 JAN 6>5 FEB 6>5 MAR 6>5 APR 6>5 MAY 6>5 JUN 6>5 JUL 6>5
WP HNL-OGG JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4 MAR 3>4 APR 3>4 MAY 3>4 JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4
WP JHM-HNL DEC 6>5 JAN 6>5 FEB 6>5 MAR 6>5 APR 6>5 MAY 6>5 JUN 6>5 JUL 6>5
WP KOA-HNL JAN 0>0.4 FEB 0>0.4 MAR 0>0.5 APR 0>0.4 MAY 0>0.4 JUN 0>0.5 JUL 0>0.4
WP KOA-OGG DEC 1.5>1.0 JAN 1.4>1.0 FEB 1.4>1.0 MAR 1.5>1.0 APR 1.4>1.0 MAY 1.4>1.0 JUN 1.5>1.0 JUL 1.4>1.0
WP LIH-HNL DEC 2>3 JAN 2>3 FEB 2>3 MAR 2>3 APR 2>3 MAY 2>3 JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3
WP LIH-OGG DEC 1.5>1.0 JAN 1.4>1.0 FEB 1.4>1.0 MAR 1.5>1.0 APR 1.4>1.0 MAY 1.4>1.0 JUN 1.5>1.0 JUL 1.4>1.0
WP LNY-HNL DEC 6>5 JAN 6>7 FEB 6>7 MAR 6>7 APR 6>7 MAY 6>7 JUN 6>7 JUL 6>7
WP LNY-JHM DEC 0>0.5
WP MKK-HNL DEC 4>3 JAN 4>3 FEB 4>3 MAR 4>3 APR 4>3 MAY 4>3 JUN 4>3 JUL 4>3
WP MKK-JHM DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0
WP MKK-LNY DEC 1.0>2 JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2 APR 1.0>2 MAY 1.0>2 JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2
WP OGG-HNL DEC 1.5>2.0 JAN 1.4>4 FEB 1.4>4 MAR 1.5>4 APR 1.4>4 MAY 1.4>4 JUN 1.5>4 JUL 1.4>4
WP OGG-KOA DEC 1.5>1.0 JAN 1.4>1.0 FEB 1.4>1.0 MAR 1.5>1.0 APR 1.4>1.0 MAY 1.4>1.0 JUN 1.5>1.0 JUL 1.4>1.0
WP OGG-LIH DEC 3>1.5 JAN 3>1.0 FEB 3>1.0 MAR 3>1.0 APR 3>1.0 MAY 3>1.0 JUN 3>1.0 JUL 3>1.0

ZK DEN-FMN APR 3>4 MAY 3>4 JUL 3>4
ZK FMN-SOW APR 0>0.7 MAY 0>0.7 JUL 0>0.7

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2385 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-BIL JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 0.9>0 MAR 0.8>0 APR 0.9>0


What happened here? Did I miss something from prior weeks? Interesting.

[Edited 2012-11-06 09:49:09]


SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7396 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2387 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
BA PHX-LHR APR 0.9>1.0 MAY 0.8>1.0 JUN 0.9>1.0 JUL 0.8>1.0

Hm I guess it didn't 100% load into the system as daily when it was announced a while ago. That's what I'm thinking, at least.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL PIT-CDG MAY 0.7>0.5 JUN 1.0>0.7 JUL 1.0>0.7

Why "uh-oh?" Maybe it's just a seasonal drawback?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL SPN-NRT JUN 3>2

What a/c does this one fly on? An intra-asia 757? Are these ETOPS?



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlinecrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 698 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2391 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
KE DFW-ICN MAY 0.7>1.0 JUN 0.7>1.0 JUL 0.7>1.0

Well this is an interesting and immediate response to AA. I'm REALLY curious to see who's going to win this one out.


User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7552 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2384 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter): *DL PIT-CDG MAY 0.7>0.5 JUN 1.0>0.7 JUL 1.0>0.7
Why "uh-oh?" Maybe it's just a seasonal drawback?

Doesn't really warrent the "uh-oh" but I digress.

PIT-CDG is seasonal in the first place, instead now they are planning to run it at 5x per week instead of daily.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17420 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2387 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 4):
Doesn't really warrent the "uh-oh" but I digress.

Pulling down a route in the one season it makes money? It's definitely not a *good* sign.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7547 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2386 times:

Quoting crosswinds21 (Reply 3):
Well this is an interesting and immediate response to AA. I'm REALLY curious to see who's going to win this one out.

I think there has to be an equilibrium. DFW-ICN can support 10x weekly, but I dont know about daily.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6123 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2384 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
Why "uh-oh?" Maybe it's just a seasonal drawback?

Reduction during the high travel summer season, doesn't make sense.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4895 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2380 times:
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Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
Pulling down a route in the one season it makes money? It's definitely not a *good* sign.
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 4):

PIT-CDG is seasonal in the first place, instead now they are planning to run it at 5x per week instead of daily.

PIT-CDG has never ever run daily. DL always default loads all their summer flights at daily frequency and then adjusts them. You can also see JFK-AGP, JFK-KEF, JFK-PSA all loaded as daily, but I can almost guarantee these will not run daily and will be adjusted in the coming weeks. Most of these have been running at less than daily the past few summers.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25077 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2381 times:
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Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Looks like NK is driving F9 out of another market in peak season.
F9 DEN-BIL JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 0.9>0 MAR 0.8>0 APR 0.9>0
F9 DEN-FLL FEB 2>1.0 MAR 2>1.0 APR 1.6>1.0

Should I be puzzled that Frontier's addition of (new) winter service DEN-JAC doesn't appear in this or the last two OAG threads?

I could easily have missed it, I guess, but I've checked back the pevious two threads and I don't see it, although it is publicly available for sale.

An even earlier thread, perhaps? Or it isn't loaded in OAG?

mariner

[Edited 2012-11-06 10:22:14]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5400 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2382 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
Why "uh-oh?" Maybe it's just a seasonal drawback?

Seasonal frequency reduction -- in the May, June and July? "Huh-oh" is right! This definitely needs watching...

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AS LAX-LAP MAR 0.4>0.2 APR 0.4>0.0 MAY 0.4>0 JUN 0.4>0 JUL 0.5>0
AS LAX-LTO MAR 0.7>1.0 APR 0.7>1.0

Looks like LAP is being shut down -- or at least suspended -- with the capacity being shifted to LTO. Makes sense as I would think SJD would be able to accomodate those headed for LAP.

bb


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7111 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2382 times:

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 1):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-BIL JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 0.9>0 MAR 0.8>0 APR 0.9>0
What happened here? Did I miss something from prior weeks? Interesting.

I posted articles to the same effect in another thread. It is gone, like so many other things.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL PIT-CDG MAY 0.7>0.5 JUN 1.0>0.7 JUL 1.0>0.7
Why "uh-oh?" Maybe it's just a seasonal drawback?
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 4):
Doesn't really warrent the "uh-oh" but I digress.
PIT-CDG is seasonal in the first place, instead now they are planning to run it at 5x per week instead of daily.
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
Pulling down a route in the one season it makes money? It's definitely not a *good* sign.
Quoting as739x (Reply 7):
Reduction during the high travel summer season, doesn't make sense.

Maybe it was 5/week last year, don't remember, but it isn't going to be daily this Summer. Clearly they hoped it would. It's not true that they publish all routes as daily in the Summer. NGO is a great example. It went the other way. It was loaded 5/week and was increased to daily. Clearly they hoped it would be daily in its one season and now it is 5/week.

One thing I do know is that PIT-CDG ran from March 26 to October this year and it now doesn't even start (at 5/week) until mid-May. Not good at all...


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2221 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2383 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL DTW-NGO MAY 0.7>0.9 JUN 0.7>1.0 JUL 0.7>1.0

This is good news, and should end the rumours on ANet that DL would end DTW-NGO, and move the flight to SEA.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5400 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2383 times:

Quoting panamair (Reply 8):
PIT-CDG has never ever run daily

Well, except according to the June and July 2011 DL timetables which show it operated DAILY. Here, for example, is the llisting under "PIT" for June 2011:

Quote:
PARIS, FRANCE 3909 mi
C-Charles De Gaulle; O-Orly
6:35 8:20C 204 0 D 752 æ

bb


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7396 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2379 times:

Quoting panamair (Reply 8):
PIT-CDG has never ever run daily. DL always default loads all their summer flights at daily frequency and then adjusts them. You can also see JFK-AGP, JFK-KEF, JFK-PSA all loaded as daily, but I can almost guarantee these will not run daily and will be adjusted in the coming weeks. Most of these have been running at less than daily the past few summers.
Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
One thing I do know is that PIT-CDG ran from March 26 to October this year and it now doesn't even start (at 5/week) until mid-May. Not good at all...

It does not seem to be that high demand of a route though, but I'm assuming someone in PIT is subsidizing a lot of it. Either way I'm none too worried about this route.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4895 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2380 times:
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Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
Maybe it was 5/week last year, don't remember, but it isn't going to be daily this Summer.

I know you have a flair for DRAMA, but the flight ran at 4x weekly in March/Apri/Mayl this year, and then went to 5x weekly during the summer, before going back to 4x weekly in the fall.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...new-direct-flight-to-paris-655796/

".....In 2013, the flight is scheduled to start on May 12 and run until the last week of October. Delta plans to operate the service five days a week through most of the season, from June until Oct. 25, spokesman Anthony Black said.

This year, the flight started at four days a week, expanded to five during the summer, and now is back at four..."

[Edited 2012-11-06 10:44:02]

User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4895 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2379 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 13):
Well, except according to the June and July 2011 DL timetables which show it operated DAILY. Here, for example, is the llisting under "PIT" for June 2011:

Yes, you're right, my mistake then - sorry about that. Don't remember if 2011 was still under the subsidy.


User currently offlineclrd4t8koff From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2381 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*US PHL-BOS FEB 16>18 MAR 15>17 APR 15>18 MAY 15>18 JUN 15>17 JUL 15>18

18 daily flights?!?!? And WN couldn't even make 2-3 flights a day work?? Is this a route B6 would/should look at entering?


User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7547 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2382 times:

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 12):
This is good news, and should end the rumours on ANet that DL would end DTW-NGO, and move the flight to SEA.

That would not be a good move. DTW-NGO is a huge auto industry route. There is a reason why DTW-NGO can be supported yet, SFO-NGO cant. DTW-NGO is high yielding and a large local market. Its niche route that SEA simply couldnt do as well as DTW.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7552 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2382 times:

Quoting panamair (Reply 15):
".....In 2013, the flight is scheduled to start on May 12 and run until the last week of October. Delta plans to operate the service five days a week through most of the season, from June until Oct. 25, spokesman Anthony Black said.

This year, the flight started at four days a week, expanded to five during the summer, and now is back at four..."

Look at DL's TATL flying planned in totality for Summer 2013. Capacity on routes, expect for hub-to-hub, is way down. Most of the seasonal TATL flights have a shorter season that in year's past. This speaks more about DL's overall strategy than it does specifically for the health of PIT-CDG.


User currently onlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3048 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2380 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AS LAX-LAP MAR 0.4>0.2 APR 0.4>0.0 MAY 0.4>0 JUN 0.4>0 JUL 0.5>0
AS LAX-LTO MAR 0.7>1.0 APR 0.7>1.0

Looks like LAP is being shut down -- or at least suspended -- with the capacity being shifted to LTO. Makes sense as I would think SJD would be able to accomodate those headed for LAP.

Is this a seasonal suspension during the hot summer? AS has already dropped LAP once and then reinstated it years later. They ran it with a 734 around 2000 (I forget the exact years) and then discontinued it. Then it came back several years ago with a 734; then was changed to a QX CR7; then Q400.

SJD can accommodate it if you like a several hour bus ride. That's what I had to do in between AS serving LAP. So I'd dispute that SJD is sufficient. Sure, LAX can accommodate FAT traffic too, but wouldn't you rather just fly to your destination than several hours of grand transportation?

Personally I liked LAP much more than SJD. LAP is very authentic Mexico and the malecon is wonderful.


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3152 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2380 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):

One thing I do know is that PIT-CDG ran from March 26 to October this year and it now doesn't even start (at 5/week) until mid-May. Not good at all...

At the same time, I believe it will run 5x weekly for a longer stretch than it has this year.

Quoting panamair (Reply 16):

Yes, you're right, my mistake then - sorry about that. Don't remember if 2011 was still under the subsidy.

It did operate daily in the summer of 2011, without subsidy. The subsidy ended after the spring of 2011.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 14):
but I'm assuming someone in PIT is subsidizing a lot of it.

Only the paying customers.



FLYi
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9317 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2381 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
Maybe it was 5/week last year, don't remember, but it isn't going to be daily this Summer. Clearly they hoped it would. It's not true that they publish all routes as daily in the Summer. NGO is a great example. It went the other way. It was loaded 5/week and was increased to daily. Clearly they hoped it would be daily in its one season and now it is 5/week.

most of Europe is loaded daily then adjusted.
Asia not so much.

Quoting panamair (Reply 16):
Yes, you're right, my mistake then - sorry about that. Don't remember if 2011 was still under the subsidy.

I do believe it was.



yep.
User currently offlinejetsetter629 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2380 times:

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 17):
18 daily flights?!?!? And WN couldn't even make 2-3 flights a day work?? Is this a route B6 would/should look at entering?

That is exactly the reason why WN couldn't make it work - US had the FF base and frequency. With a flight ever hour, it was great for customer. PHL-BOS might as well be considered a "shuttle route"


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5400 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2380 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 20):
SJD can accommodate it if you like a several hour bus ride. That's what I had to do in between AS serving LAP. So I'd dispute that SJD is sufficient.

The map shows Cabo to La Paz as 75 miles on a fairly direct road (highway?) I haven't been to LAP or driven the area so I don't know from personal experience what the condIitions are like or how long it normally takes so I will take your word for it.

However, as the LAX-LAP route has been flown (lately) with a Q400 less than daily, I would have to presume that AS has decided that their resources are better used elsewhere, such as for more capacity between LA and LTO (which does NOT have any other airport nearby.) Alaska has kept their station at LAP open for at least the last year or two with only 1, 75-pax flight, 3 days a week, and I'm sure that situation has been looked at pretty closely. I stick by my original thinking about the route.

The Q400 fleet is not increasing (as far as I know) so it is a constant chess game for route planning to keep moving the pieces around the board to where they are most profitable. And I think we'll be seeing more of the same game in 2013, both domestically and trans-border.

bb


25 COSPN : Yes I believe so but not required IWO (Iwojima) is 1/2 way between NRT and SPN so it has been flown on non-etops in the past Who is the new airline t
26 PHLwok : US has run literally everyone else off this route. B6 might like to serve it, but probably just views it as a money pit. With the Shuttle brand alrea
27 ckfred : I don't get UA cutting ORD-YVR from 4 to 3 roundtrips in April. That's a bit ahead of the start of the Alaska cruise ship season. Unless it's a season
28 Flytravel : B6 should probably venture to PHL though via Florida routes: PHL-FLL since WN is downsizing, PHL-SRQ (not flown by US), PHL-PBI (disappearing from WN
29 CIDFlyer : Cant believe no one has commented yet on DFW-FAR. Good for AA, and good for FAR to gain access to a warm weather/southern hub.[Edited 2012-11-06 15:18
30 PHX787 : Well that's at least decent news. If the subsidy ended then the entire population who is purchasing tickets is able to support whatever amount of fli
31 steeler83 : I do believe it was subsidized for only a part of 2011. After the subsidy expired, they upped the service to daily until it was discontinued in Septe
32 kcrwflyer : PIT-CDG makes money? Ever!? That route's been 2x daily in the past, I'm pretty sure. I can't imagine MDT having the traffic to make JFK work, but who
33 PITrules : Unlike the first year in which both the public and private portions of the subsidy were exhausted, the second year of the two year program didn't use
34 kcrwflyer : I don't. I was asking. I would be thoroughly impressed by the business community in PIT if this route has been profitable.
35 steeler83 : This route must have done something for DL that they liked. Otherwise, they would not have restarted the route even if on a seasonal 4-5x weekly basi
36 PHLwok : There will be a race to the bottom on yields on all those routes, though. They're not obvious money makers and US would likely stiffly flight them. N
37 AirAfreak : After one flight in AA Economy DFW-ICN, I don't see why KE cannot win the majority DFW-ICN to support the daily flight. And for UA to drop EWR-AVL is
38 AVLAirlineFreq : Disappointed. UA has now dropped both IAH and EWR from AVL since the merger, leaving only ORD.
39 PSU.DTW.SCE : EWR-AVL is not permenantly cut. They are delaying the start due to resume seasonal service. The route does not operate Jan-April. Note the report onl
40 enilria : So I "have a flair for DRAMA", but I was right??? Since you are going for zero out of three, let me mention regarding your third baseless supposition
41 AVLAirlineFreq : Thanks. Serves me right for not checking!
42 Post contains links PITrules : If you want to make an issue about it, both Sept and Oct 2013 are showing 5x weekly, where it was 4x weekly this year. So yes "5x weekly for a longer
43 PHX787 : I wasn't calling you a drama king, I was simply saying that something is keeping this route afloat, even if it is drawn back a little more.
44 MasseyBrown : In a three-way competition, I expected AA to be the one to drop a flight first, although this DL drop apparently returns in February. At almost $1,00
45 smoot4208 : Wonder if it's going seasonal or just ending all together?
46 neveragain : But you'd agree it's one airline serving daily and one serving 3 days per week, right? Not each serving 5 days per week? And if one is serving 3 days
47 enilria : The SEP/OCT 2013 schedules are far from final. They are just now tweaking early Summer.
48 steeler83 : The idea is to do something to retain the PIT-CDG service if not get it to go daily year-round. Do you have a better idea than mine? The companies th
49 neveragain : Yes. The strategy you argued for, i.e., to try to get Pittsburgh-based companies with operations in France to expand and vice-versa, is, in my opinio
50 FlyASAGuy2005 : This is due to openskies, correct. And I do remember ATL-BOG going to a 757 this year. I'm guessing since it's going to be 2x daily now, at least for
51 United_fan : Well,DL is now putting the A319 into ROC from ATL on flight # 1111 . Replacing the MD88 . Not usual for DL to fly the A319 here.
52 izbtmnhd : I think there's an opposite angle as well. When the PIT-CDG flight was being subsidized there were billboards on I-70 East between Columbus and Wheel
53 neveragain : If I were ACAA (or whatever organization was paying the ad money), I'm not sure I'd waste money on this. The only group of people in any number that
54 Coronado : With fuel where it is currently , if PIT-CDG is not profitable in a 757 it is tough to argue that Delta should be serving this route daily barring a s
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