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New Airline To Serve Florida Markets  
User currently offlineblr380 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 160 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2068 times:

Elite Airways, based in Portland, ME is interested in starting new services from New England towns to Florida.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifest...-11e2-aaa5-ac786110c486_story.html

It is nice to see a new carrier to restart FL service from PWM...but not sure what their business strategy is.
Please share your thoughts and any further info you may have on this new venture.

Edited:
Just found another link that reports a regional service in the Northeast:
http://www.mainebiz.biz/apps/pbcs.dl...e?AID=/20121107/NEWS0101/121109965

On another note, sad to see Twin Cities discontinuing PWM (the first international flight before AC jumped in).

[Edited 2012-11-07 09:23:51]

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2247 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2070 times:

This airline sounds like a cross between Independence Air's fleet and Skybus' strategy of flying to out of the way airports.

This doesn't seem like the sort of strategy that will ensure longevity in the airline industry.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlinecmhsrq From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 995 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2070 times:

2 plus hour flights on 50 seat RJ's. Someone needs to go to airline economics 101. This will never get off the ground.


The voice of moderation
User currently onlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6793 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2072 times:

Quoting cmhsrq (Reply 2):
2 plus hour flights on 50 seat RJ's. Someone needs to go to airline economics 101. This will never get off the ground.

Not just that, but in a market like PWM-MLB. I suppose the idea would be to market it as Palm Beach/Orlando, but it won't be cost-competitive.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3193 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2072 times:

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 1):
This doesn't seem like the sort of strategy that will ensure longevity in the airline industry.
Quoting cmhsrq (Reply 2):
2 plus hour flights on 50 seat RJ's.

Possibly if it was marketed as S&S or snowbird and seafood service. The abundance and assortment of seafood including Maine lobster and several varieties of fish available near PWM. Two months ago I flew with 48 pounds of seafood I purchased near PWM from http://www.harborfish.com



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinepwm2txlhopper From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1341 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2072 times:

I just read about this in the local Portland paper and came on here to see if anybody else picked up on this?

I first heard about this airline when they opened their home office in downtown Portland a year or two ago. At the time, they expressed interest in flying international/domestic schedule flights and charters. Possibly in business class configuration. They were supposedly going to operate 757's and 767''s and were even proposing International flights to Europe with the possibility of flights originating/stopping in PWM for customs/refueling!

On their website, they still have their corporate office listed here in downtown Portland. I haven't heard anymore about them since their initial proposal though. I just assumed it was just another upstart that never really got off the ground ?

Elite Corporate Website

http://cyaviation.com/


Quoting blr380 (Thread starter):
t is nice to see a new carrier to restart FL service from PWM...but not sure what their business strategy is.
Please share your thoughts and any further info you may have on this new venture.

I'm no expert in running an airline, but I can't see anything but failure for an upstart airline flying 50 seat RJ's on 1,000+ mile routes between small tourist markets at discount fares! Especially with high fuel prices.. Reminds me of Independence Air! But even they weren't flying routes that far.

Quoting blr380 (Thread starter):
On another note, sad to see Twin Cities discontinuing PWM (the first international flight before AC jumped in).

Not really. Before AC and Twin Cities, there was Starlink Air to Nova Scotia. That was just a few years ago before Twin Cities took over.

In 2000, there was AC (the first time) with service to YUL.

During 1991-93 circa, Northwest Airlink flew PWM-YQB several days per week.


User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3830 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2072 times:

Why cant anyone with an airline idea ever have a good one that passes the common sense test? 50 seat jets on 2 hour flights to Florida? C'mon man..

User currently offlineflyPBA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2072 times:

actually (or also) ... http://www.eliteairways.net

User currently offlineblr380 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2074 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 3):

I think the RJ's are meant for local/regional flights within New England/New York. Longer routes are supposedly on A-319 or similar (yet to be confirmed)

Quoting cmhsrq (Reply 2):

The demand exists - not sure about the yields. B6 and FL flew MCO-PWM route and the loads were great (once again, I am not sure about the yields). Two airlines (with A320/737) was probably too much to handle this market. MLB is a completely different ball game with no connections on either ends. It should be a matter of time WN connects MCO with PWM.


User currently offlineviasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1884 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2074 times:

The first aircraft is a 19 year old former Comair CRJ100: http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/new...scheduled-operations#disqus_thread

User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5488 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2070 times:

Best of luck to them. I take it they are going into the saturated MCO area market. How about MIA? Sure there landing fees are expensive but, the pickings are ripe for competition against the juggernaut bankrupt air I mean AA. I wish we stayed and expanded in MIA. Seems like everyone is thowing their eggs in the crowded baskets of FLL and MCO.


I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5634 posts, RR: 29
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2072 times:

I wonder how a streamlined P2P regional on dirt cheap CRJ's might fair with slightly lower fuel.

JetDirect

Interesting thought, but perhaps not worth the risk.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinelat41 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2068 times:

While all this may be going on, we still have PeoplExpress yet to get out of the starting gate. That carrier was supposed to be up and running already. I would think that any startup would have flights full to the gunnels every day and not with $79 gimmick fares to make it.

User currently offlinethrufru From Marshall Islands, joined Feb 2009, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2070 times:

Well, the economics of operating RJ's have changed just a little bit. The acquisition costs are at rock bottom prices with monthly leases in the low 5 figures. It's a little like The economics behind having an old car. You might pay a little more for maintenance and your fuel economy isn't nearly as good, but you don't have a car payment.

Now with that, and the ancillary costs, I still think its a heck of a stretch to get this off the ground and have it operate successfully for any length of time.


User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2718 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2067 times:

Quoting pwm2txlhopper (Reply 5):
Reminds me of Independence Air! But even they weren't flying routes that far.

At least Independence Air had a hub so all the RJ's fed off each other as well as the A319's. This outfit only has a point-to-point service between PWM and MLB. This is great if you live in PWM or MLB and you need to fly to the other location. Otherwise you're SOL.

The great circle mapper distance PWM-MLB is 1216 miles. However, I doubt that the CRJ is overwater equipped. Therefore the flight path needs to hug the coastline which make the flight even longer. Also at that distance the CRJ is going to be weight restricted and I would be surprised if you could carry more than 40 passengers per flight.



Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 6):
Why cant anyone with an airline idea ever have a good one that passes the common sense test? 50 seat jets on 2 hour flights to Florida? C'mon man..

3 hours on a PWM-MLB flight is optimistic. The block time would be closer to 3 1/2 hours.


User currently offlinerbgso From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2067 times:

Quoting bohica (Reply 14):
3 hours on a PWM-MLB flight is optimistic. The block time would be closer to 3 1/2 hours.

Anything over 45 minutes in a CRJ200 is absolute torture.


User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6073 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2069 times:

Quoting bohica (Reply 14):
Therefore the flight path needs to hug the coastline which make the flight even longer. Also at that distance the CRJ is going to be weight restricted and I would be surprised if you could carry more than 40 passengers per flight.

I played with this:

KPWM JFK FKN CHS CRG MLB KMLB

It hugs the coast, and only goes slightly over water. It's only 1100 miles, and within the CRJ-200's range without bumping payload. The only time it would be restricted would be if an alternate is added (Assuming these guys are 121 Supplemental, then that would always be the case, but then again, there are plenty of close-by airports to use on both sides Wink otherwise, they won't be bumping anyone.

[Edited 2012-11-08 09:32:27]


Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5634 posts, RR: 29
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2067 times:

I got the impression after reading the two articles that perhaps CRJ's would connect regionally somewhere in the northeast, feeding a potential Florida flight. I might be mistaken.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineNWADTWE16 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2068 times:

Quoting lat41 (Reply 12):
While all this may be going on, we still have PeoplExpress yet to get out of the starting gate.

And on the other side of the country California Pacific Airlines?!? Wrong thread i know but you got your aircraft awhile ago now and the poor thing is just sitting there, what the **** is going on?


User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3147 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2068 times:

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 18):
And on the other side of the country California Pacific Airlines?!? Wrong thread i know but you got your aircraft awhile ago now and the poor thing is just sitting there, what the **** is going on?

Yes, airline enthusiasts, let's bash every freakin' proposal that comes to light, because we have so much faith in the consolidation, dominance, and too-large-to-fail mentality of the alternative. Of course Spirit, Jetblue, and Southwest were startups at one point. But no matter. Bash away.


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4416 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2068 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting rampart (Reply 19):
Yes, airline enthusiasts, let's bash every freakin' proposal that comes to light, because we have so much faith in the consolidation, dominance, and too-large-to-fail mentality of the alternative. Of course Spirit, Jetblue, and Southwest were startups at one point. But no matter. Bash away.

I feel it's a valid argument - high CASM CRJ's against a mountain of other non-stop and connecting options available in a highly fare sensitive leisure market. Interesting to watch and see what happens none the less.


User currently offlineNWADTWE16 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2068 times:

Quoting rampart (Reply 19):
Yes, airline enthusiasts, let's bash every freakin' proposal that comes to light, because we have so much faith in the consolidation, dominance, and too-large-to-fail mentality of the alternative. Of course Spirit, Jetblue, and Southwest were startups at one point. But no matter. Bash away.

Its ironic you say that to me, read any of my other posts im all about more competition and i viametly defend VX|B6|F9 every chance i get..i know their not 'fresh new starts' but my only point about California Pacific is, there doesnt seem to be anything happening months after the hooha of getting their first plane. Once you have your first bird it should be promotion, promotion, promotion to get moving..something is def wrong which is leading to silence.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25432 posts, RR: 86
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2068 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 17):
I got the impression after reading the two articles that perhaps CRJ's would connect regionally somewhere in the northeast, feeding a potential Florida flight. I might be mistaken.

I got that impression, too, but then I re-read both articles and he says that will happen if there's enough demand:

"He says the service would start with 50-seat regional jets, and use bigger aircraft if there’s demand."

I'll say good luck to anyone who can actually get an airline off the ground. It's their money, or their investors.

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 21):
i know their not 'fresh new starts' but my only point about California Pacific is, there doesnt seem to be anything happening months after the hooha of getting their first plane. Once you have your first bird it should be promotion, promotion, promotion to get moving..something is def wrong which is leading to silence.

Off-topic, I guess, but I take your point and we are discussing start-ups, so:

http://encinitas.patch.com/articles/...-airlines-plans-spring-launch-date

"California Pacific Airlines Plans Spring Launch Date"

mariner



aeternum nauta
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