VS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 978 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 913 times:
That's very interesting. Huge Bulgarian diaspora in Chicago plus lots of student trips during summer time. Let's see what happens. Thanks for the news.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22070 posts, RR: 51 Reply 3, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 915 times:
Quoting shilenb (Reply 2): Given that Bulgaria is a member of the EU surely there is no need for approval from USDOT as its covered by the openskies agreement.
BH still needs to jump through all the hoops to receive its foreign air carrier certs, meet TSA regulations, have required safety audits etc.
Also I'm not sure where the Bulgarian CAA sits with its US counterpart, nor when Sofia airport was ever audited to be an approved point of embarkation for US flights.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
klwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 1787 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (6 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 912 times:
Quoting mhkansan (Reply 6): Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):Will this route carry 5th freedom between JFK and ORD?
That would be nearly unprecedented but it sure would be awesome!!
jcwr56 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 221 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (6 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 912 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5): I wonder who's 330/340 they'll get.
Will this route carry 5th freedom between JFK and ORD?
They will probably clear in JFK and continue on as a domestic arrival in ORD. While great news, history has shown me anyone trying a XXX-JFK-ORD-XXX is not successful over time.
Pe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 18848 posts, RR: 54 Reply 10, posted (6 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 912 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5): Will this route carry 5th freedom between JFK and ORD?
No: carrying traffic (e.g., passengers and cargo) on such a basis - that is, on a domestic service, i.e. using the 8th freedom* aka cabotage - is not permitted in the USA while en-route to or from a foreign airline's country.
* Which is 'unofficial' as it wasn't one of those determined by the Chicago Convention in 1944.
[Edited 2012-11-08 03:43:14]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
flanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1609 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (6 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 912 times:
I do travel there a couple of times a year and there is quite a demand for the route from all the Bulgarians in Chicago. I almost always fly with LH and the Star Alliance partners. Don't see myself changing that unless its significantly cheaper with BHair.
What would be interesting is too see the effect on the other established carriers in this market as well as prices.
[Edited 2012-11-08 12:48:55]
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
IrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1731 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (6 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 912 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): BH seeks to offer services both New York and Chicago with a proposed 3x weekly SOF-JFK-ORD-SOF routing. No start up date mentioned.
How will this be sustainable for NYC point-of sale traffic: they have to backtrack to ORD before heading back eastward to SOF? Doesn't make any sense at all.
At 3x per weekly, they will have a very tough time competing against LH, LO, LX, etc. etc.
flanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1609 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (6 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 913 times:
Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 16): How will this be sustainable for NYC point-of sale traffic: they have to backtrack to ORD before heading back eastward to SOF? Doesn't make any sense at all.
Yeah that doesn't make sense. Would they do seperate flights then? They are looking at picking up a 330+340
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
9w748capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 409 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 909 times:
Quite interesting to say the least - how are yields to Bulgaria? Must be good enough for this airlines to pursue US ops. And I wonder would they try to tie up with AA/UA/DL to get some feed and maybe reciprocal FF mile arrangements?
LZ didn't operate to New York as far as I recall. The former Eastern Block carriers which did operate transatlantic flights were CSA, Tarom, LOT and Aeroflot (and JAT).
Tdan From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 306 posts, RR: 3 Reply 20, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 908 times:
Is there a way to short BH Air? This will be an unmitigated disaster.
US-Bulgaria is not very big to start and the only airline still flying transatlantic from the former eastern block is LOT (due to the HUGE ORD and NYC - Poland markets as has been discussed on here before). Additionally, TK has really been discounting US-Eastern Europe heavily out of JFK to fill its 3x daily flights and ORD will likely be next with the arrival of the Mid-east carriers.
[Edited 2012-11-09 13:44:21]
We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22070 posts, RR: 51 Reply 21, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 908 times:
Quoting eta unknown (Reply 4): Guessing SOF must have been audited- remember the horror that was Jes Air?
Probably many moons ago. I bet lots has changed the last decade.
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5): Will this route carry 5th freedom between JFK and ORD?
No chance.
Quoting flanker (Reply 13): What would be interesting is too see the effect on the other established carriers in this market as well as prices.
Probably zero effect. I suspect BH will run this more as a charter like for Bulgarian tourist over the summer.
Did BH not have charters to Cuba a year or so ago?
Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 16): How will this be sustainable for NYC point-of sale traffic: they have to backtrack to ORD before heading back eastward to SOF? Doesn't make any sense at all.
At 3x per weekly, they will have a very tough time competing against LH, LO, LX, etc. etc.
As I said above, they likely will look at their home market for being driver of traffic, and do not intend to compete against the likes of LH, LX etc.
Quoting flanker (Reply 17): They are looking at picking up a 330+340
I suspect they are only looking at leasing a single frame. Probably due to poor language their application makes use of the word "and" instead of "or" when describing their fleet.
Quoting flanker (Reply 17): Would they do seperate flights then?
No. Their application only makes mention of a single triangle routing - SOF-JFK-ORD-SOF.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
sovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2339 posts, RR: 14 Reply 22, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 908 times:
Quoting mainMAN (Reply 19): LZ didn't operate to New York as far as I recall. The former Eastern Block carriers which did operate transatlantic flights were CSA, Tarom, LOT and Aeroflot (and JAT).
Yes it did. I flew on that flight Balkan JFK-SOF-JFK back in 1999. It was a Boeing 767-200 service.
IrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1731 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 908 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21): As I said above, they likely will look at their home market for being driver of traffic, and do not intend to compete against the likes of LH, LX etc.
If that's the case, the carrier should probably get its head out of the sand and conduct a better environmental scan of the conditions it is going to face. Although the data points don't really exist quite yet, the plan as-is sounds like a potential disaster experiment in times like these.
BH are flying around A320's that are over 20 years old! I can't see them having a problem with a relatively young A330
There will be a lot more to it than that... do you think BA would scrap if they thought theyd get money for selling?
I suspect there are other issues with this aircraft
25 jcwr56: All one has to do is ask Olympic and El AL which operated JFK-ORD segments to see how well it worked for them. No one has successfully operated a rou
26 LAXintl: I'm not sure why so much pessimism. They might very well have a few tour operators lined up that are driving the route. Also a triangle routing is ce
27 IrishAyes: I'm not a pessimist nor an apologist; i'm a realist. Tourism to where? the US? or Bulgaria? Tourism traffic alone will not sustain a relatively low-v
28 LAXintl: You are thinking about this too linearly. People on these flights wont likely be using Expedia or chasing FF miles. Target audience likely looks more
29 tcx69k: Not quite the BHAir livery, but similar!
30 jcwr56: There's been some reaching out on behalf of the City to try and find out more details outside of what the application has. I'll update if I hear anyth
31 mainMAN: Sorry, my mistake! I don't remember LZ 767s.
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