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A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 6  
User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3007 posts, RR: 48
Posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 58668 times:
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The previous thread was becoming too long and has been locked. Please continue discussion in this one.

The link to part 5 can be found here:
A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 5 (by mffoda Aug 24 2012 in Civil Aviation)


Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
249 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2792 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 58883 times:

Lets start this part of the thread with some stunning stills from the cockpit animation on the new A350 Airbus home page.

I must say I am impressed by the animation quality they have achieved, take a tour yourselves: http://www.a350xwb.com/#x-tra/360-cockpit-view/

First an overview of what is rendered using planet view  Wow!  (click on the pictures to see them in full size) :
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/Cockpitplanetview.jpg

Then the classical forward:
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/Cockpitforwardview.jpg

What the captain sees when he turns around:
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/Cockpitrear.jpg

and to the right (FO is taking a leak  ) :
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/Cockpitrightside.jpg


As said, put yourselves in the drivers seat and enjoy a very well made animation, just push the mouse in the direction you want to go and right click to check out the views available, enjoy, I did.

[Edited 2012-11-08 14:24:36]


Non French in France
User currently offlinemaxter From Australia, joined May 2009, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 58727 times:

Wow, sensational, thanks for the heads up.

Cheers,



maxter
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2792 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 58775 times:

And this is my favorite still from the design movie (click on it to see it in full size) : http://www.a350xwb.com/#intelligent/design/

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/A350internals.jpg

One can really see the very forward stowing position of the nose landing gear, the avionics/equipment bay above and behind it and then the freight compartment. The gear goes that far forward in order to utilize the the lower part of the fuselage as efficiently as possible . Also watch where the floor goes for the cockpit, those pilots only occupy the top part of the nose, the aircraft is really big but those ultra large cockpit windows makes one think the pilots uses half of the diameter or more.

[Edited 2012-11-08 23:35:39]


Non French in France
User currently offlineHA_DC9 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 652 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 58735 times:

Looking at the 360 view, it looks like the A350 will have a pretty roomy flight deck or are my eyes being deceived? Is there any data out there that compares the size of the flight deck of the A350 with the A330/A340, 767, 777 or 787?

I'm liking it though. The A350 is coming along to being a very beautiful aircraft.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 8768 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 58756 times:

Huge cockpit windows, I like it. I never realized that they are that big.

Quote:
Looking at the 360 view, it looks like the A350 will have a pretty roomy flight deck or are my eyes being deceived?

It's an optical illusion I think. The cockpit looks smaller in this screenshot:

http://i47.tinypic.com/2qa0e47.png

[Edited 2012-11-09 03:58:52]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinepetera380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 58738 times:
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Where is the Ctrl Alt Del button? 

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 8768 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 58726 times:

Quoting petera380 (Reply 6):
Where is the Ctrl Alt Del button?

Sssttt, not so loud. Nobody should know that those computers are running on Windows.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4593 posts, RR: 38
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 58742 times:
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Quoting ferpe (Reply 1):

Lets start this part of the thread with some stunning stills from the cockpit animation on the new A350 Airbus home page.

These pictures are stunning indeed.   This is going to be a beautiful airliner.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 58728 times:

Quoting HA_DC9 (Reply 4):
Looking at the 360 view, it looks like the A350 will have a pretty roomy flight deck or are my eyes being deceived?

Although the photos overdo it, it's still going to be a really roomy flight deck. That nose profile, coupled with what's basically the A380 window layout, and a wide fuselage will give them something very comfy indeed.

Tom.


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4593 posts, RR: 38
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 58719 times:
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Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 9):
That nose profile, coupled with what's basically the A380 window layout, and a wide fuselage will give them something very comfy indeed.

It also helps of course that they do not have to accommodate a yoke.  


User currently offlineCM From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 58724 times:

Quoting petera380 (Reply 6):
Where is the Ctrl Alt Del button?

I know you were joking, but the airplane does have it. It is included in the "COMPUTER RESET" panels on the overhead.



Here is the full layout of the A350 overhead panel:



The 787 has a similar reset function for its IMA "brains" (called the Common Computing Resource or "CCR"), also located on the overhead panel.



User currently offlineBoeEngr From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 321 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 58704 times:

Is the Flight Deck going to be blue? I'm assuming the colors shown here are not representative of production, but could be wrong. I'd be surprised to see them step away from the blue.

User currently offlineautothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 58699 times:

Quoting CM (Reply 11):
COMPUTER RESET" panels on the overhead.

How does it come the A350 need all this switches for computer reset while the 787 just two buttons?



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2792 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 58716 times:

Quoting autothrust (Reply 13):
How does it come the A350 need all this switches for computer reset while the 787 just two buttons?

Because A350 uses Windows as operating system  ....



Non French in France
User currently offlinekl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5084 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 58702 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 14):
Because A350 uses Windows as operating system ....

Funny as it might sound, but does the A350 gets touch screens?



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineCM From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 58703 times:

Quoting BoeEngr (Reply 12):
I'd be surprised to see them step away from the blue.

Well, a lot of people were surprised to see Boeing step away from the "scientifically" chosen brown in the 787 flight deck. Personally, I think grey is ideal both for aesthetics and for hiding dirt (which was the real reason for Boeing using brown on the 747, 757, 767 & 777). I never liked the Boeing brown, or the Airbus' "blue". Brown just looks "low-tech" to me, and the blue is too close to the Russian manufacturers fixation with bright blue flight decks. If we all settle on grey, it would be great with me!

Quoting autothrust (Reply 13):
How does it come the A350 need all this switches for computer reset while the 787 just two buttons?

I think those 24 "switches" on each A350 COMPUTER RESET panel are actually circuit breakers. This would be a traditional means to reset a "box". Airbus may have chosen this method for resetting certain functions for reasons of procedural commonality wtih other Airbus types. (the A330 has clusters of circuit breakers in the exact same locations). The CCR in the 787 is two full cabinets which represent almost every significant computing function on the airplane (flight controls being the one exception). The CCR reset function is a very controlled reboot of one full CCR cabinet or the other. This is a measure which would only be undertaken in a truly extrordinary circumsatance. I can't be certain, but I'm guessing the A350 computer reset functions and the 787 CCR reset function are quite different in terms of what they accomplish.


User currently onlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3212 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 58692 times:
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If you look closely, it's not 24 switches but 48 as the two panels have different markings...

User currently offlineCM From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 58693 times:

Quoting kanban (Reply 17):

Indeed, it is not likely there are any duplicated controls on the overhead. Maybe there's a Bus pilot out there who can tell us more about what these CBs control. For many years now, Boeing models have not had any pilot procedures which would instruct the pilot to touch a circuit breaker. Airbus may have a different philosophy.

One thing that is intriguing... I expect the A350 has solid state power controllers (electronic circuit breakers), like the A380 and 787. If it does, it's even more curious why this set of breakers remains as push/pull thermal breakers.


User currently onlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3212 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 58698 times:
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there's probably a sequence to them as well.. a1, c6, e4, d1, h2, h6, a5 , b2 and b3 simultaneously
Audio warning: "log in password incorrect!!!"      


User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7027 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 58704 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 14):
Because A350 uses Windows as operating system  ....

....and the 787 runs on Mac/OS  



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 8768 posts, RR: 29
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 58703 times:

Libya's Afriqiyah to convert its A350-800 order into -900s and increase the order by four.

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/lib...iyah-airways-buys-4-105737573.html



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineautothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 58701 times:

Quoting CM (Reply 18):
I expect the A350 has solid state power controllers

It does, aswell the A380 does feature that. On the A380 you can control them via the OIM.

Quoting CM (Reply 16):
Brown just looks "low-tech"

Agree, the brown was just ugly as hell and looked indeed low tech The Airbus blue wasn't so close to Russian Flightdecks and was brighter more modern.

Still the new dark Gray on the 787 is not so pleasant for the eyes.

Quoting CM (Reply 16):
resetting certain functions for reasons of procedural commonality wtih other Airbus types.

That would make sense,



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2792 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 58716 times:

Quoting columba (Reply 20):
....and the 787 runs on Mac/OS

Actually it seems the A380, 787 and A350 all use a common module approach called IMA (Integrated Modular Avionics) with applications running on a well defined API (ARINC 653) which creates the interface to an underlying real time operating systems (RTOS). Seems to be the usual RTOS players which are active:

- Green Hills INTEGRITY

- Wind River WxWorks 653

Then for networking they use a airborne version of Ethernet, AFDX. In essence this means the times of one system has it's own box with own OS etc is gone and the vendors have to supply and qualify their applications in the aircrafts IMA computer network, just like we all add applications to our computers on our home network. The testing and qualification is a little more rigorous I gather .... Wow!

There should be those who knows more about this...

[Edited 2012-11-12 05:07:02]


Non French in France
User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 58713 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 21):
Libya's Afriqiyah to convert its A350-800 order into -900s and increase the order by four.

According to Airbus, this happened on 1st October!

http://www.airbus.com/company/market/orders-deliveries/


25 Post contains links autothrust : Interesting comparision between 787CCore and A350XWB http://atwonline.com/aircraftengines...nts/article/raising-power-bar-0309
26 Post contains images airmagnac : IMA is actually a concept. Up to the A330/A340 and the 777, every system on the aircraft (pressurisation, fuel management, hydraulics and so on) each
27 Post contains images airmagnac : Could be. The A380 also has CBs in the cockpit, and both A380 and A350 have other physical CBs in the avionics compartments. The ones in the cockpit
28 autothrust : A note i find interesting regarding CPIOM's regarding the A350.
29 tdscanuck : You need to have at least the basic CB's to supply the computers as conventional thermals (or other mechanical breakers) so that you can power up the
30 CM : The main difference between Ethernet (as we know it) and AFDX is the "deterministic" nature of the network and it's hosted devices. On a conventional
31 Post contains links autothrust : On the A380 it's called Secondary Electric Power Distribution System (SEPDS) http://www51.honeywell.com/aero/comm...TR_Brochures-documents/A380_LO.pd
32 Laddie : Thanks for all excellent IMA info and explanations, tdscanuck, CM, and airmagnac.
33 zeke : The only way to fully reset the aircraft is to power it down completely, this is with every aircraft. The computer resets reset individual computers,
34 autothrust : I'ts more a flexiblily thing over simplicity? (compared to the 787)
35 tdscanuck : I think it's an architecture difference...the 787 has, effectively, only two reset-able computers. Almost all the stuff that would have been its own
36 travelavnut : Being somewhat involved in IT my first impression would be that the in the case of the 787 you would be doing it a bit inefficiently. For example in
37 CM : Individual "hosted functions" within 787 CCS can be reset without resetting a full CCR cabinet. The former is very much a software based reboot. The
38 tdscanuck : You can reset particular "hosted functions", as CM said. However, I'm about 99% sure there is no flight crew procedure to do that and that you can't
39 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : From Airbus Facebook:
40 ferpe : Excellent catch, now how long does it take before she will enter the real interesting load scenarios?
41 KarelXWB : This is what Airbus said during the A350 FAL ceremony:
42 N14AZ : Great catch! Thanks from my side as well!
43 abba : Good catch - and we now see what a beautifull bird she is gona be.
44 Post contains images SeJoWa : It's fantastically interesting to see these pics of a new widebody coming together! I could grumble about this and that concerning the plane, but ther
45 Post contains links and images ferpe : Some more pictures from the move of the ES frame earlier this week: Now why those red covers on the MLG and part of the NLG?[Edited 2012-11-23 11:23:4
46 Post contains images Heavierthanair : G'day Likely to make sure noone installs them on the real thing. 2 wheel main gear bogies and likely without brakes installed may make meeting perform
47 Post contains links flood : Thanks for the update. They don't swing the gear during static testing, do they? They look like bare-bone stand-in units without the wiring, etc... i
48 CM : The red gear (as well as the red fittings where the H-stab should be) are not aircarft structure. They are load fittings (essentially tools) with all
49 Post contains links and images ferpe : Airbus gives no direct info on that in the text that goes with the pictures. Here is what they say on the A350 minisite www.a350xwb.com and their main
50 Aircellist : Is the mock gear the same length as the real one? That bird looks high above the ground... May be owed to the absence of engines, but...
51 scbriml : I'd imagine it's the same length. The real gear will be quite a bit more substantial than that and then you have to stick a pair of honking great Rol
52 oldeuropean : Also in the first computer generated videos of a taxiing A350 by Airbus, it was obvious that that this bird stands on unusual very long legs. Perhaps
53 swallow : The main landing gear bay of the A350-900 is 4.1m or 13 feet long. The long MLG may explain why the plane appears high above the ground.
54 Tristarsteve : And that can be a lot harder than you might think. A lot of flying control and navigation computors have hot battery bus supply, with circuit breaker
55 Stitch : Per the A350-900 ACAP, nacelle clearance is no better than - and in some cases, very slightly worse - than the 787 so if they want a larger fan, they
56 Post contains images ferpe : Or learn the 777/787 trade of hanging the engines higher without incurring interference drag. The OEMs always look what the other does and runs it in
57 travelavnut : Thanks guys, very informative! It actually looks a bit like a 757!
58 tdscanuck : Across the industry, red/orange almost universally means "test hardware". It's a very fast visual indication to separate production from non-producti
59 Post contains links CM : Similar test hardware on the 787 static frame: >>Engines: http://blog.flightstory.net/wp-conte...ads/787-static_test_airframe-4.jpg >>H-S
60 ferpe : Great, now which of these tests does A have to do minimum before they can fly MSN001?
61 tdscanuck : Technically, none. MSN001 will fly as an experimental, which gives you very wide latitude. However, you'd fly with a very restricted flight envelope
62 CM : I believe the LLF test conditions will be completed before first flight. This is for practical reasons of having enough flight envelope validated for
63 Post contains links ferpe : OK, but I understand the 787 side of body problem came after LLF (Limit Load Factor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limit_load ), this means B went abov
64 CM : Hi Ferpe. I've sent you an email with many more details, but here it is in a nutshell: If Airbus had a bit more slack in their schedule, I believe UL
65 Ruscoe : Looking at that high undercarriage it made me wonder why Airbus did no retract it rearwards and increase the fuselage length to accommodate it rather
66 CM : In studying this cab/nose gear well design when it first came out on the A380, it was our conclusion there was a weight savings to be gained from the
67 liftsifter : This a350 looks freakishly similar to a 757... My oh my...
68 Post contains links and images ferpe : There is a status article on the TXWB in the 29.10.2012 paper copy of AW, the A350 blog has cited portions of it: http://www.bloga350.blogspot.fr/ The
69 Post contains images EPA001 : Very, very interesting to read all this. Thanks for posting this Ferpe.
70 Post contains images rcair1 : Really? I used both these on consumer products (camera phones/smart phones). Why doesn't this make me feel more comfortable... Not fair - both these
71 tdscanuck : Who on earth is running INTEGRITY-178B or VxWorks Cert Platform in a phone? There are multiple flavours of both OS's available, the version for consu
72 rcair1 : No - I'm obviously using the consumer device versions. I just focused on Wind River and Green Hills.... You'd be amazed what I can do to a computer..
73 Post contains links and images ferpe : There are some new photos released on the activities around MSN001 on the Airbus main site. Here they are while we wait for news around the roll out o
74 Post contains images EPA001 : Very nice pictures, thanks for posting. I am getting anxious to see the roll-out of the A350-XWB so we can truly see how the airplane will look for r
75 Post contains images CM : Since we're starting to see MSN001 getting fitted out with test instrumentation, here are some comparisons and contrasts between Boeing and Airbus' ap
76 zeke : The instrumentation wire looms are not going to be on the floor with the A350, the are mostly installed now, they were delivered as a prefabricated l
77 Post contains images moo : You can just see it in red outline on this photo from the first flight, forward of the wing and set into the forward cargo hatch. It was removed late
78 flyglobal : CM again a great informative post in one of the (if not 'the') best threads at airliners.net. Thanks that you contribute so much to give us such prof
79 Daysleeper : There is a series of television shows called something along the lines of “Building the Worlds Biggest Airliner” in which they show the emergency
80 BoeingVista : Do we have an approximate date for the move between stations?
81 Post contains images ferpe : Well, if we later rename it "A350 prototype production and flight testing thread" the show will go on for at least 18 months . It will be our privile
82 Post contains links and images ferpe : Here it is on the forward cargo door, we discussed it but no-one came forward with the use at the time IIRC:
83 Post contains images ferpe : Not really, we know that A has stated roll-out in April to the flight line, the roll-over from station 40 to 30 is more to make room in the more equi
84 Post contains images CM : Thanks for those. Certainly easier to get to than door 3, but I'm still not sure Carriker would use it! Does anyone know if this hatch has a barn doo
85 Post contains links and images BoeingVista : The A350 XWB blog has a few more details about the installation of the wire bundles http://bloga350.blogspot.com.au/2012...001-flight-test-supercompu
86 abba : Couldn't that location of the escape door bring the people concerned in troble with the wings - not to mention the engines?
87 CM : Under the right (wrong?) circumstances, this is probably a possibility. However, if the airplane is in the circumstances which would put you into the
88 tdscanuck : I've had more than one test pilot explain it this way: "If I've got enough control of the airplane to do something, I'm more likely to survive by fly
89 abba : That is if we are looking at the pilots in isolation from the - as I understand the previous contributions - up to 20 or so test engineers on board t
90 Post contains links Focker : Movement of MSN001, transferring from station 40 to station 30: http://www.airbus.com/galleries/photo-gallery/ Looks good![Edited 2012-12-04 02:09:32]
91 Post contains images BoeingVista : Wow, was just asking yesterday when this move was going to happen... Definitely looking good! [Edited 2012-12-04 02:37:26]
92 flipdewaf : Is it me or do those bogies look very wide? Anyway looking good and thanks to all who contribute to making this the best thread on A.net. Fred
93 Post contains images travelavnut : Indeed!! She doesn't look as "mean" as the 777, but still a very impressive shape. They do indeed!
94 Post contains links KarelXWB : The press release: http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...xwb-msn-001-structurally-complete/
95 francoflier : It looks great in person. Better than the computer renderings. I'll miss the A300 legacy cockpit windows but the new 'space shuttle' windows design is
96 qf340500 : What a beauty indeed! I am looking forward now to see it with the big engines hanging from the wings plus the wingtips...
97 Post contains images columba : Looks kind of like a 757. Much better looking then on the pictures, but with 4 engines it would look even better
98 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Here is a better side view of the aircraft: [Edited 2012-12-04 03:33:15]
99 Post contains images EPA001 : Agreed. And she is not even fully painted yet! A new beauty in the making.
100 Post contains links frigatebird : According to Ferpe in the 787-10X 6-wheel MLG thread, the A359's 4-wheel bogie is 55% bigger than its counterpart on the 787-9 (reply 51, 787-10X To
101 Post contains images petera380 : Since the A350 has achieved power on already, it's already way ahead of the 787 when it was officially rolled out to the public! Way to go Airbus!!
102 Post contains images BoeingVista : What I like about these pictures is the total lack of ceremony, its no big deal just 5 guys moving an aircraft, nothing to see here.. We'll just get
103 Focker : When you look at the picture of Karel's post (98), what is being constructed right behind MSN001?
104 KarelXWB : That must be the new assembly building for the A350 (correct me if I'm wrong).[Edited 2012-12-04 05:10:46]
105 zeke : They will also have the highest tyre pressure of any aircraft in service.
106 tdscanuck : You're mixing up two different cases. The emergency escape systems are designed for very high risk initial flights, when neither OEM puts a lot of pe
107 BoeingVista : Weren't there something like 17 engineers evacuated from the 787 that had the electrical fire? Edit: No, far more than that onboard, Flightglobal put
108 Post contains links and images ferpe : I think you are on the money , here where it should be then, just behind MSN001 when they backed her out and turned her north for hall 30: This will
109 CM : Worth noting - Airbus reaffirmed the A350 schedule today at their Investor Days event.
110 Post contains links and images ferpe : EADS is running their Investor forum days yesterday and today, here some key A350 slides from yesterdays presentation by F Bregier: Program status 1:
111 Post contains images KarelXWB : I would love to see those posts
112 BoeingVista : Ok, lets talk gear legs and bogies. It has been remarked that the A350 seems to stand a quite high off of the ground on a set of giraffe like legs whe
113 Post contains images ferpe : Well there is nothing especially new in the charts, it is just that the competing frame suddenly seems to have lost 500nm all of a sudden, as this ha
114 Post contains links KarelXWB : Everything is bigger on the A350, I think it leaves some room for a larger model (-1100 ?). And without engines it looks even bigger indeed. For refe
115 tdscanuck : A lot more, as posted. But that wasn't a "super high risk flight", it was totally routine (as test flying goes). You only go min crew for first fligh
116 Post contains links and images ferpe : And now when everyone has seen her in stills, here she is live while taking the first tour in free air from station 40 and into station 30: http://www
117 Scipio : Almost seems like a trend: A350 higher than B787 A320 higher than B737 A380 higher than B747 A300 (marginally) and A330 higher than B767 A different
118 baldwin471 : 772ER - 2.81m 77W - 2.88m A333 - 2.10m So the 777 bucks the trend.
119 Scipio : Consistent with what I suspected on the basis of pictures and inconclusive information... Based on your data, also: B777 higher than A350.
120 Post contains images BoeingVista : Apart from the engine clearance.. the numbers for both 787 and A350 are very similar and Airbus also seems to hang the A350 engines further outboard.
121 moo : How do those achievements compare to the 787 at rollout (I know, not the same milestones, but from what I remember the 787 was a lot less further dow
122 BoeingVista : Oooooooh I think that we should 'pass' on this question and move on... No good will come of a discussion of the 787 readiness at rollout.
123 swallow : The nose down attitude of the 330 is gone. This puppy sits on her MLG much like the 767
124 Post contains links zeke : Airbus is moving the airframes between stations on its gear, what we have seen is the move from station 40 to station 30. This is an overview of the
125 moo : Uhm, I know - which is why I said "I know, not the same milestones, but from what I remember the 787 was a lot less further down the line at the publ
126 Stitch : Essentially, when the A350 rolls-out from Station 20 for it's public ceremony, it will be a functional airframe. When Boeing rolled out ZA001 for it'
127 overcast : I thought the 787 was "rolled out" on 7/8/7, so that's more like 2 years 5 months between Rollout and first flight. Surely the A350 won't be that late
128 Stitch : Corrected.. Baring a collision on the ground or Act of God that destroys the airframe, I can't see how she possibly could be.[Edited 2012-12-05 07:15
129 zeke : No we do not get "indications" to compare with the 787/A380 mainly due to Airbus delaying the process early so the barrels, wings etc moving to FAL a
130 tdscanuck : Why would you compare MSN001 to ZA003 and not ZA001 or ZA002? ZA003 was the oddball in the 787 test fleet because it was the systems/cabin test aircr
131 zeke : ZA001 took around 13 months, it was essentially empty on arrival from what I understand.
132 Post contains images CM : Best description of the 787 rollout I've seen yet. PR-driven decisions on the 787 program (like rollout on 07/08/07) actually compounded existing sch
133 abba : During the long delay of the 787 program my thoughts were often with the hands-on-people involved. It must have been the closest you could ever get t
134 EPA001 : No doubt is was a very stressful situation, as was the situation with the wiring production issues on the A380. Then again, in many businesses situat
135 Post contains images ferpe : While you describe a very pressed and unpleasant situation it is the description of this human aspect of what it takes to create perhaps the ultimate
136 tdscanuck : I had nightmares about testing the 787...it wouldn't even leave you alone when you were asleep. What distinguishes what the airframers do from most o
137 Post contains images EPA001 : Very well written ferpe! . Also very well written tdscanuck. I agree with you both on this. That factor is additional to aviation which you hardly se
138 Pihero : CM, Tdscanuck, EPA001 and Zeke, Thanks for the best ever thread on this site, one that reveals why we are aviation fanatics and what lies behind an ai
139 Aircellist : Thanks for sharing. So much second that. So much second that too. I would like to add ferpe to the thanks list, and mention "respect" in the list of
140 india1 : Let me also extend thanks to all the contributors to this fantastic thread. What I esp appreciate is objective comparisons and comments, without pot s
141 Asiaflyer : I would like to add Ferpe to that list as well. His contribution is beyond what we have seen in most other threads. As others have said, to follow th
142 Post contains images astuteman : Boy, can I associate with that...... It's particularly frustrating when you're near enough to the product to see the impact of those poor management
143 maxter : Thanks a lot for that honest and heartfelt synopsis of the events of that time, I am sure that it was incredibly stressful. Having been part of a maj
144 Post contains images frigatebird : Absolutely And don't forget KarelXWB, he has joined A-net not so long ago and is often first with the latest pics about both A350 and 787 production.
145 CM : Thanks Pihero (it's been a while!). I'll drop my name from the list, add Ferpe and Astuteman to it, and second your sentiemnts. I learn a great deal
146 Post contains images travelavnut : Adding nothing of substance to this thread, just want to join the people above me in a word of thanks to the awesome contributors on this thread, cur
147 Post contains images astuteman : On a product basis - unquestionably. We don't face the same scale of industrialisation, and economic, challenges. As an engineer who can recognise pr
148 knoxibus : I am truly appreciative of this thread, and to all its contributors of course. I can relate to CM especially since I guess we are almost counterparts.
149 Post contains links and images ferpe : While we wait on further news from MSN001 and 003 here some stills from the nice videos that A has put on the A350 site: First a good example why the
150 maxter : Interesting, thanks ferpe. I wonder how much weight would be saved if the bolt shank/thread length was shorter. Is the extra length for an additional
151 Post contains images EPA001 : Again very nice detailed pictures of the A350-XWB. Really interesting stuff. Thanks for posting ferpe!
152 flipdewaf : Seemslike an easy way to lose a bit ofweight to get rid of the ends of those. I'm glad I Wasn't the only one who noticed, what are the practicalities
153 Post contains links and images ferpe : For quite some time I have been wondering how a 56m B788 can have the same cargo capacity (in LD3 containers) as the 59m A358 and the 62m 789 as the 6
154 a36001 : Love it!
155 Post contains images Stitch : As always, ferpe, thanks for the thought and detail.
156 Post contains images rwessel : Unless I'm missing something, there appears to be enough additional room in the front bay (167cm) of the A350-800 for another 154cm LD3/LD6.
157 mingocr83 : I would like to congratulate and thank Ferpe, CM, Tom, Zeke, Astuteman and EPA. The support given on this thread has been amazing. On the last 7 years
158 Post contains images EPA001 : I can only second that. It is remarkable how close the design are to each other. The drawings which show the outline boundaries of both airliners are
159 tdscanuck : Fantastic analysis! However, although the 787 really does have a compact mixer, it also has the tall vertical drum mixer at the back of a cargo hold
160 nomadd22 : I just spent considerable time getting through post 153. If there's ever a poll as to the best 20 posts on anet, I'm afraid we're going to have to dis
161 gigneil : I update my respected users about once every 5 years, but I did a little shuffling thanks to this thread. NS
162 Post contains links and images ferpe : Thanks Tom, I have been hunting for quite some time to try and verify if the 787 had the same vertical snake area in front of the wingbox. It is amaz
163 Post contains links and images ferpe : Exactly, so either A is sandbagging (they label it as a 7 row pit for a total of 14 rows on the 350-800) or they have very spacious tie down rules, t
164 rwessel : They don't seem to be requiring a particularly large amount of extra space in the *rear* hold. The mixed load scenarios for both the 358 and 359 leav
165 tdscanuck : Yeah, I tried hard to find a public photo of that area and failed completely. Excellent book! Mine is, unfortunatley, stuck in a storage container in
166 Post contains links and images ferpe : Well the 359 photo is also from a video, the A St Nazaire preEquipping one. It was not much easier with the 787 aft equipment bay, there are no photo
167 knoxibus : Just had the chance to perform a full visit of the MSN 001 at the A350XWB FAL. The place (and aircraft itself) is buzzing and crawling with lots of en
168 KarelXWB : And the winglets, are they already mounted?
169 Post contains images EPA001 : Great to hear about this update. Sounds all good to me. I guess we are all anxious to see the aircraft completed and painted for the official roll-ou
170 Post contains links KarelXWB : The engines are expected in a few weeks. http://www.bloga350.blogspot.nl/2012...o-identifies-2-risky-partners.html
171 knoxibus : Not yet. And for the engines, I know that the nacelles have been delivered some time ago, so time for integration, and then, up on the aircraft!
172 KarelXWB : Thanks for the update knoxibus.
173 Post contains images andrewtang : Thank you for the updates! So does the plane look any different now (exterior wise, especially the wing to body fairings) if you were to compare it w
174 Post contains images ferpe : I would be surprised if it did (but what do I know ), part of the announced missions of station 30 is completing and filling up the hydraulic system
175 Post contains links and images ferpe : First, to all thread readers a good and interesting A350 Year! (and it will be ). There is a lot of exciting things happening this year but it will pr
176 Post contains images EPA001 : Thanks again ferpe. I wish the same to you and to all A-netters reading about these interesting developments. We will do everything possible to keep
177 Post contains images WingedMigrator : Yes but... historically, everything was great on the A380, A400 and 787 programs right up until the moment that they announced that it wasn't. Public
178 abba : Happy new year to all and especially to our excellent contributor to this thread, Ferpe! Is there any information out there on how that total aircraft
179 Post contains images ferpe : We have no direct info on that but Knoxibus, which is on the program and working at the FAL, posted his view on FAL activity in post 120. Now he is c
180 Post contains links AviaPoncho : Hello ferpe, Hello folks It's my first message here, after extensive reading this last 3-4 years... I enjoyed this thread very much by the way... (the
181 a380heavy : Does MSN001 have it's engines and winglets fitted yet?
182 Post contains links kmz : off-topic, but interesting...have never seen double bogie on A320....(page 12 on presentation )
183 Post contains links and images Speedbird128 : AI had a bunch of them for their poor runway surfaces... View Large View MediumPhoto © Sushank Gupta- Indian Aviation Photographers
184 kmz : thanx!! interesting. could be interesting for future heavy A321....
185 Post contains links AviaPoncho : Hello Kmz I think that the four wheel MLG is not rated at current A320 MTOW, not to speak off current A321 MTOW More here I think A320 With 4-Wheel Ma
186 Post contains images ferpe : Hello Poncho! Welcome to Airliners.net and to this thread. As you know I have been lurking quite a bit on the Avia forum as well, for the same reason
187 Post contains links AviaPoncho : Thanks Ferpe As usual, I forgot a few points in my message (get lost in writing ? ) The slide i linked are october 2011, the same time frame as PAS20
188 ferpe : Having no real expertise I can venture a guess (someone who knows better please chip in/correct or dismiss): - the cabin interior like side-walls, ov
189 holzmann : Looking at these photos, does anyone else think, from a purely Operations/Line Management / Just-in-time perspective, that Airbus simply takes a more
190 Stitch : Yes, but then that has been their assembly philosophy for decades.
191 Post contains images EPA001 : But in light of the mishaps in the A380 and A400 programs, as well as in light of the mishaps in the B787 program, I get the impression that they hav
192 Stitch : Well the A380's issues are specifically related to cabin outfitting, which is performed after the airframe is assembled. To my knowledge, A380 assemb
193 Daysleeper : I was under the impression that the delays outfitting the A380 were a consequence of Airbus offering too many cabin options to customers. Although I
194 Post contains images Stitch : Airbus had indeed reduced the options list compared to the A380 and they have created a separate cabin mockup in order to pre-test cabin fittings so
195 CM : I trust you are enjoying it by now? Things are always fine until they aren't. Companies always tell you what they want you to know and often accept t
196 astuteman : How do you get to that? It was originally meant to EIS in mid 2013 and is now expected to EIS in mid 2014, which is a 12 month delay. I'll accept tha
197 Daysleeper : I believe the initial EIS date for A359 was mid 2013 which has now been pushed back to mid 2014 – by my reckoning that makes it 12 months late, so
198 Post contains links mffoda : I believe what they said, was "2H" not Q2. That gives Airbus a window of 6 months (July-Dec 14) for EIS. Or, in other words... up to 13-18 months lat
199 Post contains images CM : The A350 program is only 12 months behind if only look at what Airbus has announced and you don't apply a critical eye to those announcements. In rea
200 Daysleeper : I'm not sure I follow you, I think what your saying is that per the Airbus announcements the A350 is actually only 12 months behind schedule as both
201 Post contains images mffoda : While I appreciate the recognition, CM .... I know you were not trying to disparage Airbus. You are one of the more respected members on this site (p
202 CM : Airbus has told us the airplane will deliver in the 2nd half of 2014. History has proven that is far more likely to mean 31-Dec than it is 1-Jul. Bey
203 nomadd22 : A lot of the reason some delay estimates are higher than other is the early disappearance of margin. If a schedule for three years with 6 months margi
204 tdscanuck : He's saying that Airbus communications say 12 months but if you look at their schedule budget for each portion of the project and connect that to the
205 Post contains images WingedMigrator : I love the chart. One nice addition would be to give an indication of what is actual (realized) versus what is projected, for example by shading the
206 zeke : I would tend to agree with you that 2H2014 being closer to Dec than Jul, however even if the flight testing took their normal 18 months that Airbus t
207 Post contains images astuteman : The other slide of this coin is to declare something as a given, when in fact it's not, no matter how likely it might be, even if that wasn't the int
208 Post contains images EPA001 : As always, time will tell. But so far they seem to be in a lot better shape with this program.
209 KarelXWB : Can someone explain to me how Airbus can cut the flight testing from 18 to 12 months? Somehow I missed this piece of information.
210 Speedbird128 : Extra frames flying?
211 KarelXWB : Maybe, but as far as I know Airbus is sticking with 5 flyable frames for the tests.
212 ferpe : IIRC they said that 6 months was margin and that 12 months was the hard minimum. IMO 12 months is the time without any hicups or extra work/investiga
213 mffoda : Does anyone know how many fuselages and wings were joined this past year?
214 ferpe : 2, the static test aircraft MSN5000 and then the first flight test aircraft MSN001. The sections for the 3rd frame to be joined should start to make
215 tdscanuck : He's a witch! Burn him! OK, I amend my statement to "almost never"...I'm not going to wait for lightning to strike twice (although it would be awesom
216 Post contains links zeke : They said something like 15, possible in 12. http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...e-in-test-flight-programme-326380/ A lot of different pieces of e
217 Post contains images EPA001 : That would be awesome if they can pull that of. Thanks for your explanation on the flight testing program possibilities.
218 tdscanuck : I don't think anyone said it was impossible, just very unlikely. "It has been done before" is usually a poor metric for flight test rates because the
219 Revelation : Catching up on this long and interesting thread... A very brilliant and senior guy I knew when I was an IBMer said that for every one line of code to
220 RickNRoll : The expert is the person who says it will take the longest and cost the most.
221 zeke : They would not do it the same way again. Airbus and various subcontractors have been flight testing various A350 systems for years now, the idea that
222 CM : I'd be shocked if the A350 program wasn't doing testing off the airplane. Bench, lab and testbed efforts are all a part of qualifying the bits and pi
223 kanban : anyone have an idea of what type batteries are installed?
224 Post contains images Heavierthanair : None All seats for the self loading cargo in economy have food pedal operated generators to provide power for starting the APU. During flight these s
225 Post contains links CM : The A350 has 4 identical part number 28V Lithium-Ion batteries from Saft. The batteries are used for the following functions: - No-break power transf
226 Post contains images EPA001 : Thanks for the information and the link CM. Interesting stuff.
227 Post contains links and images ferpe : I guess they will have an extra review of their containment enclosures, from now on no-one will say they might have thermal runaway, it will be for s
228 Aviaponcho : Thanks Reading this article, i was wondering if these 2 A350 VIP are the tests flight aircraft ? " After an extensive test program followed by a recon
229 Post contains links ferpe : Airbus has held their 2012 order and delivery press conference in Tolouse this morning with the following sideline info re the 350 program: Interestin
230 Aviaponcho : Thank you Ferpe Bregier didn't rule out a FF before PAS2013.... Reading from la Tribune, weight seems to be controlled at this point So far, only a 3
231 Post contains images ferpe : Yes, they reported the programme for weight reduction seemed to be on track, we will see what that means. One other things was very evident, the rela
232 Aviaponcho : Yes Ferpe, Very good feeling from the management team Bregier (pictured humself as mini major tom) Leahy (bashing analysts from wall street) both open
233 Post contains links and images ferpe : Lehay is also convinced the 787 will be back on track and be healthy, here his comment to Bloombergs at the sideline of todays conference: http://www.
234 Post contains images EPA001 : I think this also shows how well things are progressing. If things go (much) more difficult then anticipated, you often see more tense relations in u
235 Post contains links ferpe : The A350XWB blog is a well run site, the guy doing it makes sure there is always something new to read: http://www.bloga350.blogspot.fr/ Many times it
236 Post contains links and images airmagnac : Thanks Ferpe I also noticed the 2013 update to the list prices, with on average a 3.6% increase over 2012 prices : http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/p
237 Revelation : Seems everything in general is going well, but it mentions again/still that Spirit is having challenges: I know they have a very good reputation in t
238 Post contains images ferpe : If I remeber that write off was for all their programs, I suspect the 787 and 350 is contributing significantly but I don't remember how involved Spi
239 Post contains images astuteman : I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and guess:- $184m on the 787 programme, related to the wing $163m on the G650 wing programme $151m on the B
240 abba : Rather specific numbers for a wild guess me thinks
241 Post contains links and images astuteman : http://www.spiritaero.com/investor.a...seID=1117&id=3&p=irol-reportsOther Q3 2012 results, top of P3 Rgds
242 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Airbus is testing the RAT on the A340 testbed: http://www.aeroweb-fr.net/actualites...t-de-la350-sur-son-a340-300-dessai[Edited 2013-01-21 06:18:28]
243 Aviaponcho : It looks like acoustic testing for CFRP panel instead... No way this RAT can windmill !
244 OldAeroGuy : I suspect the test is for the dynamic pressure profile at the RAT location.
245 Aviaponcho : On an A340 with shapes and airfoils different from that of A350 ?
246 Semaex : The purpose of the RAT is to rotate in order to provide energy to some systems, so my best guess is that whatever aircraft, the RAT is located outsid
247 abba : It looks as if there is a lot of antennas on that RAT? Or...
248 ferpe : It is pitot tubes to measure total pressure (dynamic+static) at different points to map the airflow at that distance from the fuselage and pitch angl
249 Revelation : Excellent research! I didn't know they had that exposure to all those programs.
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