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The Beginning Of The End For SAS  
User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1789 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2062 times:

For years SAS has introduced austerity measures after austerity measures, cut jobs, sold subsiduaries but now it looks like it is last chance saloon for the ailing flag carrier of three countries. In reality the airline is bleeding cash and not much can be done to stop it. Also, with militant unions in especially Denmark and Norway, any cost-cutting is very hard to push through and SAS staff are on average paid well in excess of the industry averages.

SAS have for some unknown reason refused to publish its quarterly results, pushing this back until Monday. Many assume that this is because SAS is seeking EU approval for the three Scandinavian governments to guarantee loan-extentions provisionally agreed by six banks. This would give the airline some breathing space to restructure. However, the EU could (and in my opinion are likely to) rule this as being illegal state aid. Norwegian are staunchly opposed to any state aid although as joint-owners of the airline there is an argument that the Scandinavian governments are within their rights to support the carrier.

Will SAS survive the next year? Could creating individual national carriers be a solution?

News article from NRK (in Norwegian): http://www.nrk.no/okonomi/eu-avgjor-skjebnen-til-sas-1.8390490

News article from DR (in Danish): http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Penge/2012/11/09/093709.htm


Next Flights: LHR-IAH (744-BA); MSY-ATL (752-DL); ATL-LGA (320-DL); JFK-LHR (744-BA)
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2078 times:

DK can revive the Sterling Brand, Norway has its Norwegian and Sweden could buy into either Sterling or Norwegian to make sure some traffic flows our way.

Sterling was my favorite Airline, nice crews and good prices   Their prices were too good I guess.


User currently offlinesolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 857 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2089 times:

The NEO´s out the window!

//Mike         



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineteme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1609 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2097 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

If SK goes belly up I think AY will launch some kind of airline in Sweden. Either with co-operating with FlyBe or alone.  


Flying high and low
User currently offlineKC135Hydraulics From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 320 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2094 times:

Sounds like the middle of the end rather the beginning. This has all been in the works for a long time.

User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5259 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2094 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 1):
DK can revive the Sterling Brand, Norway has its Norwegian and Sweden could buy into either Sterling or Norwegian to make sure some traffic flows our way.

Don't forget about Ryanair opening bases immediately in ARN, CPH and OSL like they did with the Malev - Budapest scenario. They have quite some 737's parked.


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5569 posts, RR: 36
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2094 times:

Unfortunately it is fact in our days that an airline in this size can not survive alone when it wants to be a network airline with long- and short-haul. SWISS only survived and makes such good results because she is under the wings of LH. Also OS failed. Most others are big (LH, AIG, AF-KL, TK), are low-cost or niche airlines.

User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 802 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2097 times:

SK is just giving it away. Been checking flights from LHR/AMS-HEL and SK come up waaaay cheaper than anyone else. Even DY is coming up more expensive.

User currently offlinesteman From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1401 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2094 times:

This is so sad.
Such a history rich airline and an earyl example of european collaboration.
If they shut down I hope somebody will make sure the brand and name can be
preserved and maybe in the future used again.

Good luck to SAS and its people.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7656 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2094 times:

Quoting solnabo (Reply 2):
The NEO´s out the window!

It doesn't mention that in either article.

For those that don't read Scandinavian here is an article in English

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2012/11/...sas-postpones-crisis-plan-release/

[Edited 2012-11-09 08:26:04]

User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

Sk keeps selling its assets, but then what, when there is nothing more to sell?! It is better to try to find a merger partner as long as there is something left of SK.

User currently offlinekyrone From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2091 times:

Shame to see another iconic brand going the way of Pan AM, TWA, Eastern, and so many others...

User currently offlineglobetraveller From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 379 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2094 times:

Quoting toobz (Reply 7):
SK is just giving it away. Been checking flights from LHR/AMS-HEL and SK come up waaaay cheaper than anyone else. Even DY is coming up more expensive.

They are giving seats away and still not filling the cabins. I was on a LHR-CPH flight recently and the load must have been below 30%. I think that says alot.


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2095 times:

I met some swedes in Spain that had gone with SK to ALC and a lot cheaper than me with IB, I didn't even know they flew that route, they ended it long ago but it is back. Maybe a bit of marketing would have helped in this case, I didn't check their site as I knew they didn't fly that route..but they do..

They have been the "expensive" choice for many for so long this view of SK lives strong in many people. I don't know a single swede that would travel with SK above any competitor, there is just not enough tradition left to keep its customers. Norwegian has modern nice planes with free wifi etc And they go on many routes SK doesn't any more.

I think SK had the wrong attitude in the wrong market for a long time, its almost as customers existed for their behalf not the other way around. Be happy that you can fly with SK sort of culture.


User currently offlineyp6370 From Germany, joined Apr 2000, 200 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2093 times:

Quoting globetraveller (Reply 12):
They are giving seats away and still not filling the cabins. I was on a LHR-CPH flight recently and the load must have been below 30%. I think that says alot.

Individual experiences of single flights don't say anything about the state of an airline.
My last SAS flight was 100% full but that doesn't mean, they achieved a sufficient yield.

I just like to wait for the official numbers to be announced.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7656 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2085 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 13):
They have been the "expensive" choice for many for so long this view of SK lives strong in many people.

Once you add in reserving a seat and paying for baggage SAS normally works out cheaper than Norwegian.


User currently offlineEBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2085 times:

Quoting globetraveller (Reply 12):

No, it doesn't actually. You have to look at the average load factor and it is not as critical as you are saying. You have to count in that some return flights load might be light in one direction and full in the other. That seems to be the case with typical one-day meeting destinations, where passengers are being 'picked up' by an half full plane and then going home full.

[Edited 2012-11-12 00:45:37]


Future flights: CPH-BKK-MNL; MNL-GUM-TKK-PNI-KSA-KWA-MAJ-HNL-LAX
User currently offlineBNE From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 3188 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2083 times:

I wouldn't be surprised if SAS didn't work in closer with LH.

It seems that with old airlines unless they can almost reinvent themselves or in the US case go broke every few years then you have so many rules and regulations that tie you down that you find hard to get rid of.



Why fly non stop when you can connect
User currently offlineimiakhtar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2085 times:

Here are the links to the released reports:

http://se.yhp.waymaker.net/sasgroup/con-all.asp#

SAS launches comprehensive plan to improve profitability and secure long-term financial preparedness - new union agreements must be signed in the near future

Targeting approximately 3 bn SEK of annual improvement from cost reductions and organizational restructuring and approximately 3 bn SEK increased liquidity from asset sales ~ New 3.5 bn SEK Revolving Credit Facility from Banks and Core Shareholders to secure financial preparedness conditional on signed union agreements and parliamentary approvals ~The Board unanimously supports the plan and recommends all employees to do the same ~ The Board will meet again on Sunday November 18, 2012 to decide if the conditions for the implementation of the plan exist


[Edited 2012-11-12 03:17:14]

User currently onlineTC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 973 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2085 times:

I'm wondering if SAS should just concentrate on long-haul and domestic feed to it and leave inter-european services to Norwegian et all. Odd that AY seems to be doing so well and SK is in such a pickle.

User currently offlineTomFoolery From Austria, joined Jan 2004, 529 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2085 times:

I flew with them 2 years ago, and found them to be a pretty nice airline. I flew with them 2 weeks ago, and was really disappointed with the product. The MD82 was in fair enough shape (for the age), but I found it really gross to find chewing gum in the seat pocket, all over the magazine, barf bag, and my newspaper. My connecting flight also found a wad of gum under my armrest and dried soda on the tray table.

The first flight was a 45 minute turn around time in MUC, which for an MD82, is plenty of time to tidy up. Not a great impression.

Not sure how to gauge SAS to other carriers.

Intra Europe:
Water, Tea, Coffee = Free
Buy on board for all other items (Prices only noted in DKK, NOK, SEK)
One checked bag = Free
Seat Selection= Sometimes it works on line, other times not until at the airport.

Not quite LCC, not quite Full service.

IB is the closest I can think of.



Paper makes an airplane fly
User currently offlinekyrone From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2085 times:

I'm curious if all these cuts will affect their SFO opening..

User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7656 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2084 times:

Quoting kyrone (Reply 21):
I'm curious if all these cuts will affect their SFO opening..

Hope not I've got tickets booked for July and August return.


User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 4053 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2086 times:

Quoting TC957 (Reply 19):
Odd that AY seems to be doing so well and SK is in such a pickle.

AY don't have 35 unions in spread over 3 countries ...


User currently offlineviasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1894 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2084 times:

If SK will shut down it's operation, that would be a mess for many airports/destinations. For example is SK the only operator for the following destinations:

- Longyearbyen (LYR)
- Kalmar (KLR)
- Ronneby (RNB)
- Skellefteå (SFT)

And lot of routes within Scandinavia will be unserved.


25 Mortyman : Norwegian will start flying to LYR fromk OSL in march.
26 RyanairGuru : Because these routes are so important to Norway I could see the government immediately nationalizing WF in the case of a bankruptcy. Presuming that i
27 Thule : Interesting to hear - looks like 3X weekly. Is there a press release anywhere? I'm wondering if DY plans to operate this route only seasonally as a s
28 Post contains links AeroWesty : The end is nigh: http://www.thelocal.se/44486/20121118/ • Downroute cabin crew advised to keep cash on hand to manage on their own • Aircraft orde
29 southwest737500 : What happens to Blue1
30 Asturias : I hope SK pulls through, it is not just the name but the infrastructure that SK has that would be a real shame to lose. An airline is an infrastructur
31 flyorski : Flew SK a few times trans-atlantic. Always exceptional service and a really great time. I would hate to see them go.
32 Post contains images PlymSpotter : They flew it a few years ago, just in the summer - twice weekly IIRC. The winter months probably don't pull in great yields, but during the summer se
33 Post contains images HELyes : AY have had problems too but this year looks ok. They want to focus on long-haul and find partners for feeding, Flybe Nordic operates their Embraers
34 southwest737500 : Wow this is so sad. I've never flown them but it seems like all the good airlines our going through trouble
35 Post contains links legacyins : Negotiations between management and the Unions is still going on. Two Unions have agreed and only six more to go. http://news.yahoo.com/airline-sass-s
36 Post contains images Mortyman : Other way around my friend 6 has agreed, two to go ...
37 legacyins : So, is this an update from the article? "SAS spokeswoman Elisabeth Manzi said SAS had inked deals with Norwegian cabin crew unions SNK and NKS, and i
38 Post contains links KiwiRob : All the lastest news here in English http://www.newsinenglish.no/2012/11/19/pilot-unions-agree-to-sas-cuts/ It's the Danish and Norwegian cabin attend
39 Post contains images CPHFF : Nice to see them SK planes in the air this morning. I was really worried.
40 Post contains links AeroWesty : SAS 'saved,' at least for now "Scandinavian Airlines (SAS) was able to avoid filing for bankruptcy on Monday after the last of nine key labour unions
41 KiwiRob : If WF gets bought by Per Braathen which has been widely reported in the Norwegian press, Braathens have Bombardier C series on order for Malmo Aviati
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