SKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1324 posts, RR: 2 Posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 684 times:
For years SAS has introduced austerity measures after austerity measures, cut jobs, sold subsiduaries but now it looks like it is last chance saloon for the ailing flag carrier of three countries. In reality the airline is bleeding cash and not much can be done to stop it. Also, with militant unions in especially Denmark and Norway, any cost-cutting is very hard to push through and SAS staff are on average paid well in excess of the industry averages.
SAS have for some unknown reason refused to publish its quarterly results, pushing this back until Monday. Many assume that this is because SAS is seeking EU approval for the three Scandinavian governments to guarantee loan-extentions provisionally agreed by six banks. This would give the airline some breathing space to restructure. However, the EU could (and in my opinion are likely to) rule this as being illegal state aid. Norwegian are staunchly opposed to any state aid although as joint-owners of the airline there is an argument that the Scandinavian governments are within their rights to support the carrier.
Will SAS survive the next year? Could creating individual national carriers be a solution?
sweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1543 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 700 times:
DK can revive the Sterling Brand, Norway has its Norwegian and Sweden could buy into either Sterling or Norwegian to make sure some traffic flows our way.
Sterling was my favorite Airline, nice crews and good prices Their prices were too good I guess.
KC135Hydraulics From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 164 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 716 times:
Sounds like the middle of the end rather the beginning. This has all been in the works for a long time.
kl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 4974 posts, RR: 14 Reply 5, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 716 times:
Quoting sweair (Reply 1): DK can revive the Sterling Brand, Norway has its Norwegian and Sweden could buy into either Sterling or Norwegian to make sure some traffic flows our way.
Don't forget about Ryanair opening bases immediately in ARN, CPH and OSL like they did with the Malev - Budapest scenario. They have quite some 737's parked.
" The European consumer would crawl naked over broken glass to get low fares." Michael O'Leary
ZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5534 posts, RR: 40 Reply 6, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 716 times:
Unfortunately it is fact in our days that an airline in this size can not survive alone when it wants to be a network airline with long- and short-haul. SWISS only survived and makes such good results because she is under the wings of LH. Also OS failed. Most others are big (LH, AIG, AF-KL, TK), are low-cost or niche airlines.
steman From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1275 posts, RR: 8 Reply 8, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 716 times:
This is so sad.
Such a history rich airline and an earyl example of european collaboration.
If they shut down I hope somebody will make sure the brand and name can be
preserved and maybe in the future used again.
sweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1543 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 719 times:
Sk keeps selling its assets, but then what, when there is nothing more to sell?! It is better to try to find a merger partner as long as there is something left of SK.
globetraveller From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 377 posts, RR: 22 Reply 12, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 716 times:
Quoting toobz (Reply 7): SK is just giving it away. Been checking flights from LHR/AMS-HEL and SK come up waaaay cheaper than anyone else. Even DY is coming up more expensive.
They are giving seats away and still not filling the cabins. I was on a LHR-CPH flight recently and the load must have been below 30%. I think that says alot.
sweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1543 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 717 times:
I met some swedes in Spain that had gone with SK to ALC and a lot cheaper than me with IB, I didn't even know they flew that route, they ended it long ago but it is back. Maybe a bit of marketing would have helped in this case, I didn't check their site as I knew they didn't fly that route..but they do..
They have been the "expensive" choice for many for so long this view of SK lives strong in many people. I don't know a single swede that would travel with SK above any competitor, there is just not enough tradition left to keep its customers. Norwegian has modern nice planes with free wifi etc And they go on many routes SK doesn't any more.
I think SK had the wrong attitude in the wrong market for a long time, its almost as customers existed for their behalf not the other way around. Be happy that you can fly with SK sort of culture.
yp6370 From Germany, joined Apr 2000, 188 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 715 times:
Quoting globetraveller (Reply 12): They are giving seats away and still not filling the cabins. I was on a LHR-CPH flight recently and the load must have been below 30%. I think that says alot.
Individual experiences of single flights don't say anything about the state of an airline.
My last SAS flight was 100% full but that doesn't mean, they achieved a sufficient yield.
I just like to wait for the official numbers to be announced.
No, it doesn't actually. You have to look at the average load factor and it is not as critical as you are saying. You have to count in that some return flights load might be light in one direction and full in the other. That seems to be the case with typical one-day meeting destinations, where passengers are being 'picked up' by an half full plane and then going home full.
[Edited 2012-11-12 00:45:37]
Next flights: CPH-FRA-CPH: CPH-BKK-MNL-BKK-CPH; CPH-BRU-CPH
BNE From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 3156 posts, RR: 13 Reply 17, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 705 times:
I wouldn't be surprised if SAS didn't work in closer with LH.
It seems that with old airlines unless they can almost reinvent themselves or in the US case go broke every few years then you have so many rules and regulations that tie you down that you find hard to get rid of.
SAS launches comprehensive plan to improve profitability and secure long-term financial preparedness - new union agreements must be signed in the near future
Targeting approximately 3 bn SEK of annual improvement from cost reductions and organizational restructuring and approximately 3 bn SEK increased liquidity from asset sales ~ New 3.5 bn SEK Revolving Credit Facility from Banks and Core Shareholders to secure financial preparedness conditional on signed union agreements and parliamentary approvals ~The Board unanimously supports the plan and recommends all employees to do the same ~ The Board will meet again on Sunday November 18, 2012 to decide if the conditions for the implementation of the plan exist
TC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 333 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 707 times:
I'm wondering if SAS should just concentrate on long-haul and domestic feed to it and leave inter-european services to Norwegian et all. Odd that AY seems to be doing so well and SK is in such a pickle.
TomFoolery From Austria, joined Jan 2004, 492 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (6 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 707 times:
I flew with them 2 years ago, and found them to be a pretty nice airline. I flew with them 2 weeks ago, and was really disappointed with the product. The MD82 was in fair enough shape (for the age), but I found it really gross to find chewing gum in the seat pocket, all over the magazine, barf bag, and my newspaper. My connecting flight also found a wad of gum under my armrest and dried soda on the tray table.
The first flight was a 45 minute turn around time in MUC, which for an MD82, is plenty of time to tidy up. Not a great impression.
Not sure how to gauge SAS to other carriers.
Intra Europe:
Water, Tea, Coffee = Free
Buy on board for all other items (Prices only noted in DKK, NOK, SEK)
One checked bag = Free
Seat Selection= Sometimes it works on line, other times not until at the airport.
viasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1813 posts, RR: 7 Reply 24, posted (6 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 706 times:
If SK will shut down it's operation, that would be a mess for many airports/destinations. For example is SK the only operator for the following destinations:
Because these routes are so important to Norway I could see the government immediately nationalizing WF in the case of a bankruptcy. Presuming that it happens this week there is no way an agreement over its sale could be reached in time, and this would allow the Norwegian government to keep these routes open. If the chose to privatise it again down the line, then of course the can.
For long flights such as Oslo to Svalbard which are clearly beyond the range of a Dash, I provide subsidies to DY (or in fact anyone) to launch the flight ASAP
Thule From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 97 posts, RR: 0 Reply 27, posted (6 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1236 times:
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 25): Norwegian will start flying to LYR fromk OSL in march.
Interesting to hear - looks like 3X weekly. Is there a press release anywhere? I'm wondering if DY plans to operate this route only seasonally as a summer tourist bus, or year round...
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 26): Because these routes are so important to Norway I could see the government immediately nationalizing WF in the case of a bankruptcy. Presuming that it happens this week there is no way an agreement over its sale could be reached in time, and this would allow the Norwegian government to keep these routes open. If the chose to privatise it again down the line, then of course the can.
For long flights such as Oslo to Svalbard which are clearly beyond the range of a Dash, I provide subsidies to DY (or in fact anyone) to launch the flight ASAP
That would be the only option for LYR, wouldn't it? I'm guessing the current SK routes to LYR are heavily subsidized (but I could be wrong). A big part of the daily SK flights there is the cargo and of course the expertise required to fly in Svalbard weather conditions. Hopefully DY is up to the job if they need to take over!
• Downroute cabin crew advised to keep cash on hand to manage on their own
• Aircraft ordered to be fueled in order to make it back to base in case of a bankruptcy filing
PlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11109 posts, RR: 63 Reply 32, posted (6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1063 times:
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 25): Norwegian will start flying to LYR fromk OSL in march.
Quoting Thule (Reply 27): Interesting to hear - looks like 3X weekly. Is there a press release anywhere? I'm wondering if DY plans to operate this route only seasonally as a summer tourist bus, or year round...
They flew it a few years ago, just in the summer - twice weekly IIRC.
Quoting Thule (Reply 27): That would be the only option for LYR, wouldn't it? I'm guessing the current SK routes to LYR are heavily subsidized (but I could be wrong).
The winter months probably don't pull in great yields, but during the summer seats are easy to sell and fares are sky high. It's a 1,200 mile round trip with fares are generally above £250rtn cheapest and the planes are full all summer.
HELyes From Finland, joined Oct 2010, 642 posts, RR: 1 Reply 33, posted (6 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1023 times:
Quoting TC957 (Reply 19): I'm wondering if SAS should just concentrate on long-haul and domestic feed to it and leave inter-european services to Norwegian et all. Odd that AY seems to be doing so well and SK is in such a pickle.
AY have had problems too but this year looks ok. They want to focus on long-haul and find partners for feeding, Flybe Nordic operates their Embraers already. SK's structure is heavy and they have been walking on three legs, while AY has been more flexible.
"SAS spokeswoman Elisabeth Manzi said SAS had inked deals with Norwegian cabin crew unions SNK and NKS, and it was still in talks with the remaining six unions."
"Scandinavian Airlines (SAS) was able to avoid filing for bankruptcy on Monday after the last of nine key labour unions finally agreed to go along with pay and pension cuts, along with more demanding work rules. The agreement ended a weekend drama that some say put the entire Nordic transport system at stake."
KiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 5282 posts, RR: 3 Reply 41, posted (6 months 16 hours ago) and read 793 times:
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 26): For long flights such as Oslo to Svalbard which are clearly beyond the range of a Dash,
If WF gets bought by Per Braathen which has been widely reported in the Norwegian press, Braathens have Bombardier C series on order for Malmo Aviation, shouldn't be any problem for a C series to do Oslo Svalbard.
Sponsor Message: 
From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1324 posts, 
From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1543 posts, 
Their prices were too good I guess.
From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1148 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 164 posts, 
From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 4974 posts, 
From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5534 posts, 
From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1275 posts, 
From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 5282 posts, 
From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 885 posts, 
From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 3156 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From UK - England, joined May 2012, 333 posts, 
From Austria, joined Jan 2004, 492 posts, 
From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 1933 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
