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India To Resume Bilateral Talks With DXB,BKK,SIN  
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2974 posts, RR: 24
Posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1648 times:

A welcome move by the GOI,

For the records, India now does 200 weekly flights to DXB from 14 destinations and DXB does 194 weekly flights to 11 destinations in India.



http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/india-to-resume-talksdubai-singapore-to-increase-capacitypermit-more-flights/195398/on


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
8 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13003 posts, RR: 100
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1649 times:
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This text from your link speaks volumes: Reversing its stance the civil aviation ministry has decided to negotiate with governments of Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Oman and Singapore to allow for more flights between India and these countries.

That is quite a reversal. I suspect it is due to the recovery of the Indian aviation market? Note, I'm asking as I do not know how the yields and load factors are right now.

Where is the latest India/Dubai bilateral limits. The online document is out of date as it lists the 2003 limit:
http://dgca.nic.in/bilateral/Bilateral.pdf

From the link, it only mentions seats but not that Indian flights are near the frequency limit:
In its report CAG had noted the capacity on India-Dubai route increased from 10,000 seats/week in 2003 to 54,000 seats/week in 2008-09 and that Emirates was utilising 98 percent of the capacity but Indian airlines were utilising less than half of the approved capacity. In case of Qatar the capacity increased from 2872 seats/week to over 24,000 seats with Qatar Airways utilising over 18,000 seats and Indian airlines put together using 4,000-5,000 seats. Apart from additional seats per week foreign airlines were granted access to more Indian airports.


The indian carriers want more frequency, but are not close to the seat cap. The Dubai Carriers (EK and DH) want both. it will be an interesting negotiation. I notice the ministry only talks seats... fine.

But this isn't just about airlines. The GoI needs Dubai for the Chemical and Pharma industries. Bilaterals are never about one industry. Until more air service rights are granted, there is no reason for Dubai to sign a new bilateral in other industries. The reality is that growth in multiple industries in India is being held hostage to the ASA.

The big question is, will A380s be allowed into India? That will be an interesting debate.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1649 times:

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
A welcome move by the GOI,

Agree, and a good opportunity for Minister of Aviation to receive some large suitcases filled with gifts. Elections are likely to come soon, so I expect to see more revision to bilaterals before the next election.

This may hurt Indian carriers, but opening up of the market will benefit the consumers and the Indian economy a lot more.


User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4772 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1649 times:

Details of the traffic rights

Air India:

Delhi-Rome-Madrid/ Barcelona; Delhi-Moscow; Delhi-Sydney/ Melbourne; Mumbai-Nairobi, Mumbai-Najaf

Jet Airways:

Mumbai-Jakarta; Delhi-Barcelona; Mumbai-Zurich; Delhi-Tashkent; Mumbai-Ho Chi Minh City

SpiceJet:

Lucknow- Delhi-Macau; Delhi- Najaf ; Delhi-Macau; Delhi-Ho Chi Minh City


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13003 posts, RR: 100
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1651 times:
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Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 2):
Agree, and a good opportunity for Minister of Aviation to receive some large suitcases filled with gifts. Elections are likely to come soon, so I expect to see more revision to bilaterals before the next election.

Sadly, after years of following Indian aviation here on a.net, I think your opinion of why this is happening now is 'spot on.'

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 2):
This may hurt Indian carriers, but opening up of the market will benefit the consumers and the Indian economy a lot more.

   But will help those Indian carriers starting their international markets by going 'half way there' by providing more service to the competitions hubs.

Any hints on how much growth is expected in the bilaterals?

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineVimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1649 times:

Welcome move indeed.

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
For the records, India now does 200 weekly flights to DXB from 14 destinations

228 in Winter Sked 12

rgds//Vimanav



Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
User currently offlineVIDP From India, joined Feb 2010, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1649 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 1):
The GoI needs Dubai for the Chemical and Pharma industries

Pharma in Dubai ? I though its India which has one of the highest number of generic drug manufactring companies in India. Infact LH has specially invested in cold chain centre at Hyd Airport to handle pharma.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13003 posts, RR: 100
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1651 times:
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To Put the numbers in perspective:
Currently, Emirates operates more than 2,500 flights a week and flies to 123 destinations worldwide.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/most-p...te-emirates-airline-222901640.html

That link also points out the high priority for EK to expand in China, so it look like Tim Clark has some busy negotiating ahead.   

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/most-p...te-emirates-airline-222901640.html

Searching for the latest MOU between Dubai and India, I found there were 450 flights/week between the UAE and India, which implies almost 90% are to Dubai:
http://mea.gov.in/Images/pdf/india-u...tions-16-05-2012-press-release.pdf

Quoting Vimanav (Reply 5):

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
For the records, India now does 200 weekly flights to DXB from 14 destinations

228 in Winter Sked 12

What is the weekly cap in flights? I know dubai based carriers are at their seat cap, but what is the flight cap? The prior MOU seemed to have no flight cap. Is that the case? If so, Indian airlines would not be the reason India signs a new MOU.

I was able to find the MOU *prior* to the current one, but not the latest:
http://dgca.nic.in/bilateral/uae0507.pdf

For some reason, the root directory has zero bilaterals signed after 2007 at that India web site.  http://dgca.nic.in/bilateral/bil_ind.htm

Quoting VIDP (Reply 6):
Pharma in Dubai ? I though its India which has one of the highest number of generic drug manufactring companies in India.

Dubai is the mid-East distribution center for chemicals and pharma (an offshoot of their early contract refining and flower transportaton) and they are the enabler for India pharma growth in the mid-east, Russia, and parts of Africa. However, just as there is a cap on how many Indian laborers re-negotiated in each bilateral, so are the other aspects.

No one else has the climate controlled warehouses to handle temperature sensitive goods as well as EK and the other parts of the Dubai supply chain. I find it ironic that EK's initial focus on those warehouses was flowers and the higher margin and now more profitable for all parties pharma business just seemed to grow naturally.

I'm just pointing out there are other aspects of the bilateral that must be negotiated and that India benefits from the trade. This forum tends to purely focus on the air service agreements which is natural, but when it comes to bilaterals, the other aspects are far more important for India.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2974 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1644 times:

So Spicejet adds a daily DXB - COK flight from December 10th.

Indian carriers will now be 207 flights per week to DXB whereas DXB carriers will be at 194 weekly flights.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
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