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SK Cut 1000 Jobs & Cut 15 % On Rmn. Salaries?  
User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3874 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2219 times:

Scandinavian media is today reporting that SAS will at a pressconferance tomorrow, apparently announce the cut of 1000 employes jobs and a 15 % in salary for the remaining. SAS Ground Handling will apparently be sold.

There has been though negotiations with the unions: acccept the cuts or SAS will go bankrupt.

Please note that this is currently not official but only reported in Scandinavian media. There will be a pressconference tomorrow.

http://www.aftenposten.no/okonomi/Da...sier-opp-1000-ansatte-7042479.html

http://e24.no/boers-og-finans/sas-ek...fagforeningen-med-konkurs/20298282

http://www.nrk.no/okonomi/dansk-tv_-...as-sier-opp-1000-ansatte-1.8392386

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article15756797.ab



[Edited 2012-11-11 06:56:50]

[Edited 2012-11-11 06:59:30]

125 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2235 times:

I do wonder if this is enough, they have had problems for 10 years now, keep pushing that timeline for bankrupsy ahead of them. 3 nations, 40+ unions..SK is a mess of different visions, needs and cultures. In Sweden most blame the danish unions, I don´t know how that is in the other nations.

Its hard enough to feel united in one nation, try 3 different nations.


User currently offlineCPHFF From Sweden, joined Aug 2011, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2235 times:

Mortyman;

You should change headline to :Rumour!

Press Conference at 08.00 (CET) tomorrow.

Also, why are you starting another thread?? SAS, the end is near is currenty open....
Same subject....



Detroit is bankrupt. Don't forget to thank UAW folks!
User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5127 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2236 times:

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 2):
Also, why are you starting another thread??

Well, to me personally this is big enough news to warrant its own thread. I would otherwise have missed it.


User currently offlineju068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2233 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 3):

Exactly, same here.


Could it be that this was the reason why they have not published their financial report yet? Maybe it is catastrophic so at least when they publish it they could say that they are doing something about it.


User currently offlinedowntown273 From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2230 times:

Quoting ju068 (Reply 4):

I think that would made sense.

Will there be reductions in capacity (fewer frequencies or dropping non profitable routes) due to the layoff of 1,000 staff?


User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2233 times:

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 5):
Will there be reductions in capacity (fewer frequencies or dropping non profitable routes) due to the layoff of 1,000 staff?

It remains to be seen what is said at the pressconference tomorrow. Right now, nothing is official.


User currently offlineOSL777FLYER From Norway, joined May 2012, 5 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks ago) and read 2230 times:

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):

It seems that not everyone in SAS, especially Wikestad has understood this, the Norwegian attitude seems to be that if they fail, the government will bail them out, something which the government are not allowed to do.

Quoting ju068 (Reply 4):

SAS said a couple of weeks ago that they expect a profit for Q3 of this year. However the situation now is that SK are desperately trying to get new loans from banks.

The banks, however are not willing to lend money to SK without the individual governments agreeing to guarantee for the loans, however SK are now talking to the EU to make sure that they can do this in order not to end up like Malev.

This is a messy situation and I am honestly not sure that they can survive this.

Reason:

SK has about NOK 10bn, or about 1.8 bn $ in outstanding retirement benefits debt, they also have employees on very expensive contracts. I do not see any airline willing to take over these things. Most likely they would rather allow SK to go bankrupt and then pick up the remaining pieces and employ people on new contracts. Some people will definitely not approve of this, but to face the cruel facts: Either accept this or face unemployment.

SK has unfortunately been in severe situations for years, but unlike other airlines, they have not been able to recover and perhaps now the time is up.

Sad, but true


User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks ago) and read 2231 times:

Quoting OSL777FLYER (Reply 7):
the Norwegian attitude seems to be that if they fail, the government will bail them out, something which the government are not allowed to do.

Seems like this is the attitude of our Swedish friends and Danish friends as well


User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2232 times:

Dagens Industri ( Swedish financepaper ) : EU says yes to emergency loans for SAS

According to Dagens Industri new information on SAS crisis, the EU has given the green light for the governments of Sweden, Denmark and Norway to provide state guarantees to the banks to renew loans at 4, 7 billion.

SAS's future lies in the hands of the unions, according to Dagens Industri.

An unofficial application to provide state guarantees came from the Scandinavian countries to the EU Commission's competition unit last week. According to Dagens Industri new evidence, the parties have reached a settlement in principle a preliminary promise ahead. And the green light has been received by the governments on Sunday.

The EU has apparently agreed to this on the grounds that the Scandinavian governments rarely asks for emergency loans. The EU will proabably demand that more of SAS becomes privately owned.

A formal application will be handed in to the EU at a later date.

Article in Swedish:

http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/dage...i-eu-sager-ja-till-nodlan-for-sas/


User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2231 times:

I have tickets booked in December and January on them from the USA to Denmark and Sweden.... we don't think they will go the way of Malev before then do we?   

-ATLFlyer323



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2229 times:

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 10):
I have tickets booked in December and January on them from the USA to Denmark and Sweden.... we don't think they will go the way of Malev before then do we?

I think you can relax. Follow this thread. We should have a clearer picture of what is gonna happen at 08:00 cet today. I don't think that bankruptsy is going to be the result.


User currently offlineju068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2229 times:

I think bankruptcy would be the most stupid outcome, especially after all those millions that were injected into the airline. On top of everything, SAS as a brand should live on because it is a symbol of Scandinavia (no matter what some people might say).

User currently onlineNavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1207 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2230 times:

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 11):
I think you can relax. Follow this thread. We should have a clearer picture of what is gonna happen at 08:00 cet today. I don't think that bankruptsy is going to be the result.

Pure guesswork. SAS situation is serious. How serious is really something we do not know. If banks do not want to extend loans SAS future is in the hands of the taxpayers in Denmark, Norway and Sweden and the EU. This seems to be the case now...



747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S
User currently offlinesomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3365 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2229 times:

In short:
- Banks agreed upon new financial plan
- New collective personel agreement to be negotiated this week
- Sale of Widerøe
- Sale of SGH (Ground handling)
- More centralized organization
- New pension terms


Press release from SAS regarding the new cost cutting plan

Quote:

SAS launches comprehensive plan to improve profitability and secure long-term financial preparedness - ...

... new union agreements must be signed in the near future

Targeting approximately 3 bn SEK of annual improvement from cost reductions and organizational restructuring and approximately 3 bn SEK increased liquidity from asset sales ~ New 3.5 bn SEK Revolving Credit Facility from Banks and Core Shareholders to secure financial preparedness conditional on signed union agreements and parliamentary approvals ~The Board unanimously supports the plan and recommends all employees to do the same ~ The Board will meet again on Sunday November 18, 2012 to decide if the conditions for the implementation of the plan exist

The 4 Excellence Plan, which was announced in September 2011, is on target to deliver approximately 5 bn SEK in EBT effect. Despite this success, SAS foresees the need for further improvements to secure its long-term competitiveness. In a challenging environment for airlines, SAS must take decisive action to address its cost structure, improve its capital structure on a long-term basis, and take steps to reduce the negative impact on equity in 2013 due to changed pension accounting regulations.

4 Excellence Next Generation to improve profitability
The Board of SAS has approved the 4 Excellence Next Generation (4XNG) plan to address the issues facing SAS. The 4XNG plan will improve EBT by approximately 3 bn SEK on an annualized basis and improve the overall cost flexibility through:

· New union agreements for personnel
· Centralization of administration functions
· Reduction of compensation to market levels
· New pension terms
· Outsourcing of Call Centers and Ground Handling

1.5 bn SEK in improved EBT is expected to be realized in the financial year 2012/13, with most of the remaining annualized benefits realized in the financial year 2013/14. The plan is self-financing and requires no new capital. The restructuring cost and one-off implementation costs will be approximately 1.5bn SEK, whereof 0.9-1.0 bn SEK in financial year 2012, and will be fully funded from expected savings.

New pension terms will mitigate the need for new equity
As a result of the revised IAS19, that will be applied by SAS as of November 2013, the SAS Group's shareholders' equity will be reduced when all unrecognized deviations from estimates and plan amendments will be recognized in full in shareholders' equity. The 4XNG plan will result in a transition, for the majority of the employees, from the current defined benefit plans to defined contribution plans. These changes will mitigate the negative impact on equity by an estimated 2.8 bn SEK, reduce defined benefit obligations by 19 bn SEK (58%) and reduce volatility in future earnings resulting from changes in pension assumptions. These pension changes, together with the other actions announced today, provide SAS with the confidence that it will retain a strong equity position.

Asset Disposal and Financing Plan to increase liquidity
The Plan involves a commitment to complete an asset disposal and financing plan, which totals approximately 3 bn SEK in potential net cash proceeds. The proceeds will improve SAS' internally generated financial preparedness and allow SAS to further reduce its financial leverage. The asset disposal and financing plan includes:

· Widerøe, a subsidiary regional airline in Norway
· Airport realated real estate interests;
· Ground handling; and
· Aircraft engines

In addition, SAS will also actively consider opportunities to realize further value from its financed aircraft portfolio and other assets.

3.5 bn SEK Revolving Credit Facility conditional on signed union agreements and parliamentary approvals
SAS has reached an agreement to increase its existing 3.1 bn SEK revolving credit facility to 3.5 bn SEK and extend the term of the facility to 31 March 2015. SAS's bilateral facilities in the amount of 1.25 bn SEK will be cancelled as these facilities provide limited benefit at a significant financial cost. This new revolving credit facility alongside SAS' cash resources will provide the required financial preparedness while it completes its asset sales and realizes the full benefits from its cost reduction plans.

The new revolving credit facility is being provided by seven current lenders and SAS' core shareholders (The Kingdom of Denmark, the Swedish State, the Kingdom of Norway and KAW) on equal terms. The availability of the new revolving credit facility is subject to final documentation, parliamentary approval where required, and it is conditional on signed union agreements that are a central and integral part of the 4XNG plan.

SAS has initiated discussions with its relevant unions and will initiate a broad communication effort towards its employees to obtain their consent to the changes in the union agreements within a very short time.

Comprehensive plans create a financially strong SAS
The plans announced today are supported by our core shareholders and enable SAS to position itself as a strong, financially self-sufficient airline on a long-term basis. In connection with the approvals of the plans, SAS has set new financial targets.


User currently onlineNavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1207 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2235 times:

SAS has received guarantees for loans until march 2015. So the immediate danger of bankruptcy seems to have been removed.


747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S
User currently offlineCPHFF From Sweden, joined Aug 2011, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2235 times:

and cue: Jean Pierre Schomburg (CAU) in armored vest and threats to take Danish Cabin Crew on strike!

I think it's great that they are finally centralizing their administration. It remains to be seen if Stockholm is the right location though.

Wideröe is a money machine. Why on earth sell it?



Detroit is bankrupt. Don't forget to thank UAW folks!
User currently offlineJU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2235 times:

Can someone clarify what these exactly mean:

Centralization of administration functions
Reduction of compensation to market levels


User currently offlinesmbukas From Lithuania, joined Feb 2009, 198 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2231 times:

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 16):
Wideröe is a money machine. Why on earth sell it?

It is normal practice in business. If you are selling a money making business you get profits in advance. For example, I think, Wideroe could be sold for 8x-10x yearly EBITs. So if you have a business, which is making 10M$ a year, you can get 100M$ now, instead loosing opportunity for more profits in long term.

So cash is more valuable for SAS now to survive instead of long term assets.


User currently onlineNavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1207 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2233 times:

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 16):
I think it's great that they are finally centralizing their administration. It remains to be seen if Stockholm is the right location though.

Oh oh, here we go again. It is discussions like this of political nature that is sinking SAS...



747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S
User currently offlinesomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3365 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2230 times:

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 16):
It remains to be seen if Stockholm is the right location though.

Consider that the average salary for administrative staff is significant lower in Stockholm, compared to Oslo and Copenhagen, yes

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 16):
Wideröe is a money machine. Why on earth sell it?

Because they need the money, and it's easier to sell something that earns money

Quoting JU068 (Reply 17):
Centralization of administration functions

A lot of SAS' functions are spread out between the different Scandinavian countries

Quoting JU068 (Reply 17):
Reduction of compensation to market levels

Lower wages


User currently offlineokobjorn From Denmark, joined Jun 2011, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2230 times:

"Consider that the average salary for administrative staff is significant lower in Stockholm, compared to Oslo and Copenhagen, yes"

The nominal salary is significant lower in Stockholm than in Oslo or Copenhagen, but the social security is 31.42% on top in Sweden and 14% in Norway, whereas Denmark puts approx DKK 8,000 on top. So it is not an unequivocal lower total cost in Stockholm than in Copenhagen...


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2231 times:

Denmark will be the end of SK, as I see Swedes and Norwegians as team players but not the call to arms Danes. The hardest battles of SK has been with the danish unions and I hardly expect them to give up without a huge fight this time either.

Maybe when SK is finished will they get it?


User currently offlineCPHFF From Sweden, joined Aug 2011, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2230 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 22):
Quoting sweair (Reply 22):
Denmark will be the end of SK, as I see Swedes and Norwegians as team players but not the call to arms Danes. The hardest battles of SK has been with the danish unions and I hardly expect them to give up without a huge fight this time either.

They've been jacking up their sallaries by 3-4% every year from the mid 90's to 2007. Last spring they wanted to be "team players" and agreed to a nominal wage cut. Now they "can't sacrifice any more"........ WTF??

The Ariline Business Map has been re-drawn in the past 5 - 8 years, and every one but SAS have adapted.

A SPF representative (Svensk Pilotförening) whent on the Swedish radio this morning and claimed that SAS has more staff per flying aircraft than any other carrier in the world. Wholy S**t!



Detroit is bankrupt. Don't forget to thank UAW folks!
User currently offlineCPHFF From Sweden, joined Aug 2011, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2230 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 22):
Quoting sweair (Reply 22):
Denmark will be the end of SK, as I see Swedes and Norwegians as team players but not the call to arms Danes. The hardest battles of SK has been with the danish unions and I hardly expect them to give up without a huge fight this time either.

They've been jacking up their sallaries by 3-4% every year from the mid 90's to 2007. Last spring they wanted to be "team players" and agreed to a nominal wage cut. Now they "can't sacrifice any more"........ WTF??

The Ariline Business Map has been re-drawn in the past 5 - 8 years, and every one but SAS have adapted.

A SPF representative (Svensk Pilotförening) whent on the Swedish radio this morning and claimed that SAS has more staff per flying aircraft than any other carrier in the world. Wholy S**t!



Detroit is bankrupt. Don't forget to thank UAW folks!
25 sweair : Many people in the western world need to wake up and smell the coffee, we live in a global economy. Your job could be done for 50% of the salary if yo
26 Post contains links EBGflyer : Apparently, The Norwegian Cabin Attendants are the first rejecting the salary cuts. Perhaps you're a bit quick there. http://ekstrabladet.dk/nyheder/
27 Post contains images someone83 : I think you are a bit quick here, the article says nothing about the Norwegian Cabin Crew Wikestad is the union boss for the ground staff (SGH). And
28 kyrone : Will SAS be the first legacy to have outsourced staff checking in their passengers at their home country hubs?
29 KiwiRob : Well selling the profitable Radisson hotel chain didn't do them much good so I can't understand why selling profitable Wideroe will work either.
30 Mortyman : Yes there is no brotherhood / sisterhood anymore. Everybody is fending for themselves and for their interests. Not for common good of all 3 countries
31 timboflier215 : Who is the most likely buyer for WF? Do people reckon it will be Norwegian investors, or another airline/ airline grouping?
32 KiwiRob : I have a friend who works for them, looks like a management or staff buyout could be the front runner, there is apparently a lot of interest in the c
33 Lufthansa747 : AY has had Northport which is now RTG (or Swissport??), and Blue1 ISS aviation for quite a while.
34 prebennorholm : I have a feeling that selling WF to a private investor - including other airlines - could be a complicated or difficult thing. The reason is that WF
35 Mortyman : It was apparently the Norwegian minister of trade and finance that demanded that SAS had to sell Widerøe in order to show their commitment to the eco
36 someone83 : It's nothing different that the various bus and ferry companies in Norway running on various governmental and municipal contracts, that are privately
37 KiwiRob : Trond Giske is a complete tool, it really surprises me that will all the cock-ups he's made in the last few years that he still has a job. The fact t
38 Post contains links oykie : It seems like reality will eventually hit the Danes as well. Lufthansa was once interested in SAS, but with the illegal strike action from the Danes,
39 okAY : Northport is 100% AY owned. RTG is a third party company to whom AY has outsorced arrival services. To Swissport AY has outsorced luggage handling (l
40 GCT64 : Flybe? - it would sit in the gap between the UK and Finland operations. Compatible fleet and business model.
41 Post contains links HELyes : Even SAS CEO Rickard Gustafson himself hesitates when asked on Swedish TV if it's safe to buy their flights now... "I can't tell what to do, everyone
42 LN-KGL : The flybe half year 2012/13 report that came on 8 November was no happy reading - red ink was used on the bottom line. The net debt increased with £2
43 Post contains links bjorn14 : Look how that worked out for Sabena, Malev and Swissair. http://www.newsinenglish.no/2012/11/...fers-fly-for-sas-regional-airline/ http://www.newsine
44 copenhagenboy : Sorry to say it, but I think that is pure nonsense, it was the economical collapse and the bankruptcy of Lehman Brother, that in the last minute prev
45 Sandager : Illegal strike actions in Denmark happened last time years and years ago. And it seems like you forget that it was LH who couldn't get the financing
46 JU068 : It was not the name that led these airlines into bankruptcy, it was bad management. So re-branding SAS won't do much unless you fix the real problem.
47 Post contains links oykie : You are correct that the Spanair crash and Lehman Brother accident was the main events for LH backing of. But the Danes refusal of signing a new cont
48 Post contains links FlyingAY : Yet they take interest in the sale: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/1...rway-wideroe-idUKBRE8AD0CP20121114
49 Sandager : And still LH were ready to take over SAS, with the current conditions. They just couldn't finance the deal. They didn't run away because of illegal s
50 sweair : If there is profit in the SK routes others will gladly replace them. I am not worried about life without SK, I don´t depend on SK either. Remember, C
51 sweair : Looks like the danish pilots union say no to this deal. The Greeks of Scandinavia as someone put it in a Swedish paper..
52 LN-KGL : The infrastructure (airports, ATC, fire service, railway lines, ...) will be intact after a SAS bankruptcy. The only part missing will be operators w
53 Post contains links and images oykie : That is good, and finally it seems like the Danish F/A union will talk to management If only the Danish pilots will face reality, I will speak positi
54 EBGflyer : I agree. Pilots seems to neglect reality and they should wake up. They seem to also forget that it is not just management who are giving them this ul
55 sweair : Maybe there is room for 2 or 3 new regional airlines in the ashes of SK? This is how a free market should work, if it is profitable there will be a re
56 Lufthansa : It happened in Australia when Ansett ceased flying. It didn't take Qantas and Virgin very long at all to fill the void. Within a few months it was li
57 JU068 : So if SAS would collapse, what are the odds that Denmark and Sweden would create their own carriers? (not necessarily founded by the government)
58 LN-KGL : It would be a disaster for CPH maybe. For Stavanger it would be no disaster on international flight - Lufthansa has 3 daily flights to Frankfurt, KLM
59 sweair : I get the feeling that if SK disappeared the void would be filled quickly as the market has over capacity anyway right now.
60 LN-KGL : They have after all 140 planes (+Blue1 with 9 aircraft and Widerøe with 39 DCH-8) that fly everyday, and it will take long time for any other provid
61 sweair : Well lets see what the unions say, they have until Sunday to sign or SK would probably be put in bankruptcy.
62 GCT64 : Lots of people asked where DY were going to utilise the 222 737s and A320s they ordered in January (+ 150 options) [I think I have got the numbers rig
63 Post contains images sweair : I see a place for a Scandinavian regional airline if SK goes belly up. Someone who would feed ARN/CPH and OSL. On international routes the competition
64 Post contains links sweair : http://www.di.se/artiklar/2012/11/14/sas-fack-vagrar-sanka-lonen/ Norwegian union with 1000 members say no to the deal. SAS has over 35 unions..
65 Mortyman : I don't think that a SAS colaps is the primarley reason why Norwegian put an order for these aircraft. It will after all take several years before No
66 someone83 : Again you mixing up fact and show a lack of knowledge. First of all: there is eight unions that has to agree by Sunday. That's the unions for the pil
67 sweair : Oh so you work at SK, are you looking for a new job just in case? How are the others handling this?
68 Post contains images someone83 : Don't see how that is relevant, but I don't work in the airline business at all, but within oil......
69 sweair : You just seem very attached and informed, it would be interesting to get word from an insider. 1500 people will have to find a new job, but who. It m
70 Lufthansa : I think its more likely the existing players would step up. The European experience has proven now each country can't support a big hub, however ther
71 HELyes : Those two planned co operation a couple of years back already but nothing came up. AY would probably act through Flybe Nordic (Wideroe?).
72 Lufthansa : They might have new incentive to do it before somebody like KLM sets up bases further north.
73 bjorn14 : I am not sure of the own/lease mix of SK's 738 fleet but I'm sure the lessors would be more than happy to cut DY a deal.
74 Lufthansa : And no doubt so would the receivers, especially if banks basically were controlling those assets!
75 trent1000 : Your wisest option is to buy travel insurance that will cover you in the event of sudden "unforseen" closure of airline operations and also to have a
76 someone83 : Travel insurance doesn't usually cover that, however, at least here in Scandinavia: As long as you have paid your tickets with a credit card you'll g
77 HELFAN : And meanwhile in Germany, excerpt from LH website: "An increase of 100 euros for each level in the basic remuneration scale, except for flight attenda
78 sweair : I don't think SKs wages are the worst problem, it´s their overhead that is too big and expensive. Like Norwegians boss said, they have about the same
79 okAY : It was very strange how it all went down. The co-operation was announced, but then buried in all silence with a laim excuse given that booking system
80 Post contains links HELyes : You are right, the "incompatible booking systems" did sound like a bad excuse. SAS Finland (Blue1) is cutting CPH-OUL, CPH-TMP, CPH-LPP so that strat
81 okAY : I never understood how these routes were operated from the point of crew/aircraft utilisation? I dont think Blue1 has/had crew based in the province
82 Sandager : It is funny how people hear a lot around. Most of the time a lot of crap..... I have no idea about the cost of operating out of CPH. Do you? Fact is
83 okAY : Can you elaborate your point of view on that? How is it the only logical location? I mean, this is so relative, mostly from the point of view that wh
84 kyrone : I think wages are definitely part of the problem. I was told by staff in CPH that if they work their lunch period, the compensation is equivilant to $
85 okAY : No, they did not see the logic that the SK management and Danes saw, thus resulting in a situation where a new company was born. Norwegian has silent
86 FlyingAY : This is taking it out of context. You must look into the situation in the country - will everyone else in Denmark get extra payment, if they are not
87 kyrone : It was a manager, I was told that was union rules, and that it covered the staff, and it was a 45 minute lunch break. To quote "If you work your 45 m
88 LN-KGL : This is probably the main reason for today's problems - something that was correct 50 years ago isn't necessarily correct 50 years later.
89 Mortyman : I just don't think Norwegian would be the first onw that's all Things might have changed in those 50 years ... Ever thought about that ? Indeed Anothe
90 KiwiRob : I see it as more like 3 variations of the same culture, rather like the US where culturally New Yorkers are slightly different from Californians.
91 okAY : Call it what you like, still clashes occur. okAY
92 arn777 : The business cultures between the three countries are actually quite different and much more different than most people from the outside think. The T
93 Treg : I can only agree. Previously it was all big Nordic to me. But once I was living for 7 years in Sweden and it became clear that the differences are bi
94 KiwiRob : Lived in Norway for 6 years, been living with a Norwegian for 12 years, so I think I have a pretty good understanding. The three Scandinavian countri
95 okAY : After this I am even more surprised you consider them alike. Maybe we Europeans understand the word culture differently than people from the new Worl
96 Someone83 : This probably has a lot to do with perception and whether you're "looking" in or out. As an outsider the Nordic cultures might look more similar, the
97 Lufthansa : Exactly and to use a closer example to the poster, you could put Australia and New Zealand in 'the same group". Of course those of us here see what w
98 KiwiRob : I always thought kiwis and aussies were fairly different until I lived with one for a while, we are move a like than we want to think, I see the same
99 sweair : Living in Norway hardly makes you an expert on the 3 different cultures. I am born in Sweden but I have worked in all 3 nations and I can assure you a
100 Post contains links seansasLCY : Back to the issue at hand. The Financial Times are reporting that the SAS board will meet tomorrow (Sunday) to discuss whether to declare bankruptcy.
101 Post contains links ARN : All SK-flights today are fully tanked ex their bases so they could fly back home in case of bankruptcy. http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article15795
102 AirlineCritic : Per local media, pilots and cabin personnel are rumored to go with the suggested demands. Still, Expressen reports that SAS could be in bankruptcy by
103 bjorn14 : Is this a chapter 11 or 7 kind of bankruptcy?
104 Mortyman : Per my local media, it is the opposite.
105 AirlineCritic : Yes... the situation changed. Now it says that the pilots left the contract, cabin personnel left the contract, that personnel are requested to take
106 Post contains links LN-KGL : The European Commision has a fine page describing the Swedish bankruptcy laws: http://ec.europa.eu/civiljustice/bankruptcy/bankruptcy_swe_en.htm From
107 CF-CPI : So what we are looking at is, bankruptcy = cease operations? As opposed to the US situation whereby the carrier can keep operating pending a reorgani
108 Post contains links thunderboltdrgn : That is up to the person we call konkursförvaltare (sort of means "bankruptcy manager"). When a company goes bankrupt the konkursförvaltare will ta
109 prebennorholm : I think that continued ops can happen only when all creditors agree upon it. Old debts are then frozen, and operation is continued on prepayment basi
110 Post contains links CPHFF : 6 of 8 Unions have signed a new agreement early this morning. This is great news! 2 Unions are still trying to negotiate, including CAU (Danish Cabin
111 KiwiRob : I never said they were the same but variations. Who is the 2nd union that hasn't signed up? I hope this works, SAS has been a great airline, it could
112 Post contains links KiwiRob : To answer my own question, and I should have known better it's the Norwegian cabin attendants union. http://www.newsinenglish.no/2012/11/19/pilot-uni
113 CPHFF : Well, the good news for passengers is that there are no cancellations from Copenhagen this morning. All flights listed until 12.00 (CET) appears to be
114 CPHFF : I worked with International Fleet Sales at Volvo in the 1990's. We used to have the following saying when comparing Danes and Finns: We'd quote the F
115 Post contains links CPHFF : Union for the cabin crew in Norway is now onboard. Troublemaker CAU is the only one left. Link: Dagens Industri (Swedish) http://www.di.se/#!/artiklar
116 Post contains images chootie : I hope that all the unions and staff come through on this. SAS was, and is a true icon and GREAT airline. Wishing the best for all
117 sweair : Will this really save SK in the long run, they have had a bad time for a very long time now. Maybe this was the wake up call for the unions? I flew No
118 FlyingAY : There are differencies of course, but they're definitely in the same group. I work in a Nordics/Baltics unit of a large Swedish company and always fi
119 seansasLCY : Could SAS not now follow the example of Austrian, Iberia and Lufthansa in creating a seperate airline to take over staff and routes on a cheaper opera
120 KiwiRob : So you want Norwegians lousy on time performance and for me at least fantastic ability to lose luggage.
121 CPHFF : I believe the Airports (and ground handlers) are more responsible than Airlines when it comes to lost luggage. I have recorded 551 flights with SAS,
122 Someone83 : All the needed unions have now agreed. Then is it up to to board and banks to approve the result
123 Post contains images LN-KGL : You must have been particularly unfortunate with your DY flights. I've only two flights where the luggage was lost; both flights were with SAS (inbou
124 Post contains links thunderboltdrgn : An expert or analyst giving his opinion about SAS future: http://www.thelocal.se/44520/20121119/ Swedish tabloid Aftonbladet is posting an article wit
125 Post contains links CPHFF : There's been a lot of complaining from the Unions in the media this morning. They claim to have been "ambushed" by the SAS Management. Hu?? Isn't that
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