doulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 349 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3834 times:
Is Jetblue planning on any expansion in 2013 ? Should we see their A321s coming the first quarter of 2013? I read in another thread Jetblue was looking at Cincinnati or was that just rumor?
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16256 posts, RR: 52 Reply 2, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3860 times:
Quoting doulasc (Thread starter): I read in another thread Jetblue was looking at Cincinnati or was that just rumor?
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 1): I believe it was the opposite, Cincinnati was trying to get JetBlue. I don't see it going anywhere. Look at their route map, it doesn't fit.
It's very unlikely they are going to CVG, if they couldn't make CMH and BNA work how on Earth is CVG going to work? Where I can see B6 is ATL, again, and PHL. The A321s are going to existing routes, trans-cons and Caribbean.
airliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 878 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3856 times:
Quoting STT757 (Reply 2): Where I can see B6 is ATL, again
I completely agree. I do think the optimal time to enter ATL has passed though. They should have done it when DL wasn't doing as well and when FL was moving focus away from ATL.
Now as WN is pulling down FL everywhere except ATL they are focusing back to ATL and DL is now just a generally stronger competitor to any airline.
I think they will do ATL but the most optimal time has passed.
They said recently that they are probably going to keep some A320s that were supposed to come off lease and grow with them, but I think the are waiting to see what happens with AA before announcing anything new.
B6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2767 posts, RR: 7 Reply 5, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3859 times:
Quoting enilria (Reply 4): but I think the are waiting to see what happens with AA before announcing anything new.
They just announced last week SJU to STI and PUJ. While I'm sure what happens with AA would impact how B6 grows, I'm also pretty sure that other things are already on B6's radar scope and will be announced regardless of AA...
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
avi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 494 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3851 times:
Central America should be in their plans as well as more Carribbean service. I would assume a couple of more domestic cities but most expanssion will be out of SJU or international.
richierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4022 posts, RR: 6 Reply 7, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3851 times:
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 3): I completely agree. I do think the optimal time to enter ATL has passed though. They should have done it when DL wasn't doing as well and when FL was moving focus away from ATL.
Now as WN is pulling down FL everywhere except ATL they are focusing back to ATL and DL is now just a generally stronger competitor to any airline.
I think they will do ATL but the most optimal time has passed.
I agree with Jetblue possibly returning to ATL but I am not sure about the "optimal time."
I could be wrong but I believe that with AirTran slowly changing over to WN, there is a continuing downsizing of ATL by FL/WN and the main beneficiary, of course, is DL. Also a factor is that WN doesn't offer Biz Class or other perks, so all those loyal AirTran customers now face a choice to switch over to DL and start earning Skymiles or accept that Southwest offers more modest perks and benefits for loyalty. And because ATL is literally the busiest airport in the world, I really don't know how many "new" customers Southwest is going to drum up with the 'Southwest effect'. My point is that the LCC scene at ATL is evolving and I think there exists an opportunity for B6 (or other carrier, say NK?) to come in and fill a void.
Let's be honest, if Jetblue ever returns to ATL, it won't be by offering flights to LGB. It will be to their hubs at JFK and/or BOS. Possibly other focus cities too, but a return to the Peach State will only exist to offer more complete schedules from their own growing hubs. IIRC, the #1 and #2 business cities from BOS that B6 does not currently fly to are ATL and PHL. Stiff competition on both routes for sure but this is very telling, in my opinion.
For 2013, I could see one or both of these cities being added to the B6 route map, and maybe one or two other domestic cities too. Your guess is as good as mine as to where! MHT anybody? I think any real growth for Jetblue comes, again, in the Caribbean and Central America. If they are going to make places like CTG work, then there are literally a half-dozen other places that are within the realm of possibility. Clearly the Caribbean is now the domain of LCCs and ULCCs at the expense of legacy network carriers, AA mainly. And it's my belief that it is only a matter of time before places like POS and POP are served by Jetblue...
southwest737500 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 594 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 3849 times:
I see B6 coming to ATL, I think it is time for them to come back.
I don't see B6 coming to PHL because US has so many flights and US would match all the prices and it just won't happen. I fly JetBlue as much as possible from CLT there a great airline
Planes I've been on: Dash8,CRJ 200,CRJ 700,CRJ 900,ERJ 175, ERJ 190, 717,732,733,734,735,737,738.A319,A320,A321,762,763
flyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1617 posts, RR: 9 Reply 10, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 3845 times:
Quoting STT757 (Reply 2): It's very unlikely they are going to CVG, if they couldn't make CMH and BNA work how on Earth is CVG going to work?
Compared to the other two, CVG wouldn't have any direct LCC competition as well as a larger catchment area to draw from, who knows though, if the city can throw enough money at them it would certainly be nice to see them here.
kcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3628 posts, RR: 7 Reply 11, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 3847 times:
Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 8): I see B6 coming to ATL, I think it is time for them to come back.
I don't see B6 coming to PHL because US has so many flights and US would match all the prices and it just won't happen. I fly JetBlue as much as possible from CLT there a great airline
DL has more ATL flights than US has PHL flights and DL will match prices just the same. DL has the handbook on giving a competing LCC hell in your hub.
airliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 878 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 3851 times:
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 12):
I was thinking, what about AZA? F9 will soon be flying out of both PHX and AZA; and I don't see why B6 can't do it.
Not only is B6 not focused on the West Coast, they are not focused on a secondary airport as small as AZA in a place that they are not focused on in general.
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2303 posts, RR: 7 Reply 15, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3846 times:
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 14): Not only is B6 not focused on the West Coast, they are not focused on a secondary airport as small as AZA in a place that they are not focused on in general.
So I guess you're implying that B6 wouldn't be looking at places like BLI, GEG, or FAT either?
jetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2021 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3850 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
How about MSP, MKE, STL, or MCI? It surprises me that to this day basically the whole midwest is ignored.
Blue
Professor Foltz: You push down on that yolk, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yolk, the houses get bigger.
airliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 878 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3843 times:
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 15): So I guess you're implying that B6 wouldn't be looking at places like BLI, GEG, or FAT either?
usairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3097 posts, RR: 8 Reply 18, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3846 times:
Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 8): I don't see B6 coming to PHL because US has so many flights and US would match all the prices and it just won't happen. I fly JetBlue as much as possible from CLT there a great airline
You essentially contradict yourself here. US has far more flts in CLT than it does in PHL and yet B6 still flies from CLT.
I think it is only a matter of time to see B6 at PHL. Though I think there are 2 things that may conern B6 about the PHL market
-They will likely want to serve PHL-BOS and US has proven that it is extremely dominant on this route. B6 will have to fight it out with low fares and 8+ flts/day
-Not that B6 is looking to make PHL a focus city, but they have to be a bit concerned after the past 2 years US has beaten WN down to a mere 20 something flts. B6 may be conerned that the PHL market is still very much loyal to US and it may be tough to gain a reasonable marketshare.
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 19, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3844 times:
A place like CVG makes sense, esp with no LCC competition to Florida.
B6 could start MCO/FLL same way that BDL, PVD and SWF started and with those two they really wouldnt ruffle many feathers at DL. Then woth an established station its extremely easy to launch JFK and BOS once you have name recognition in the market.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
richierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4022 posts, RR: 6 Reply 20, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3847 times:
Quoting usairways85 (Reply 18): I think it is only a matter of time to see B6 at PHL. Though I think there are 2 things that may conern B6 about the PHL market
-They will likely want to serve PHL-BOS and US has proven that it is extremely dominant on this route. B6 will have to fight it out with low fares and 8+ flts/day
-Not that B6 is looking to make PHL a focus city, but they have to be a bit concerned after the past 2 years US has beaten WN down to a mere 20 something flts. B6 may be conerned that the PHL market is still very much loyal to US and it may be tough to gain a reasonable marketshare.
I agree with all points above.
I think BOS-PHL will be saturated right from the start with nobody making a dime. In essence, travellers between the two cities will have to compete between not just two or three airlines but essentially competing loyalties too. PHL obviously tends to be loyal to US and I think the BOS market tends to be very loyal to B6. I think the B6 product, both on-ground and in the air, would be better than US on a route like this (assuming 5-8 frequencies per day) but US clearly has the better mileage and rewards program. Plus they are already well-established on the route, so B6 would have to spend an awful lot to make in-roads. In my opinion, WN would probably be squeezed out of the market or just have token service; they have a great national marketing presence but I think this would be a two dog fight between US and B6. Of course, all of this is dependent on B6 even entering the market - but this is a matter of WHEN not IF, in my opinion.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4720 posts, RR: 15 Reply 21, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3842 times:
Quoting doulasc (Thread starter): I read in another thread Jetblue was looking at Cincinnati or was that just rumor?
You've probably read that dream/rumor in about 100 threads over the years here on A.net!
Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 16): How about MSP, MKE, STL, or MCI? It surprises me that to this day basically the whole midwest is ignored.
To expand your thought, Blue is also pretty much (with the exceptions of LA and SF) ignoring the entire west these days...
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 12): I was thinking, what about AZA? F9 will soon be flying out of both PHX and AZA; and I don't see why B6 can't do it.
And where exactly would Blue fly from AZA? They are barely serving Sky Harbor now - 1 BOS flight and 1 to JFK. (And that's their winter -- peak season -- schedule for Arizona!)
I would be very surprised to see B6 do anything west of the Mississippi for at least the next couple of years. They have become an East Coast-, Caribbean-, and Latin American-centric carrier and I expect that will be where any growth will happen.
allegiantflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 94 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3844 times:
flyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 851 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3842 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 21): They have become an East Coast-, Caribbean-, and Latin American-centric carrier and I expect that will be where any growth will happen.
Exactly. There has been no evidence of jetblue changing from this mindset, so everyone in the rest of the country shouldnt hold their breath for any expansion.
fxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7023 posts, RR: 93 Reply 25, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4131 times:
I'd love to see expansion out of AUS or EWR and and direct flight between to two would be great.
jonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 638 posts, RR: 1 Reply 27, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4609 times:
I think JetBlue could make a move a bit deeper into South America. From MCO and FLL once their A320's have sharklets they'll be able to reach places like LIM, MAO, CCS, CLO, UIO etc. I think FLL-MAO or FLL-LIM could work.
airliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 878 posts, RR: 1 Reply 28, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4615 times:
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 19): A place like CVG makes sense, esp with no LCC competition to Florida.
No it doesn't. Have you seen B6's route map. It doesn't make sense at all for B6.
LimaFoxTango From Antigua and Barbuda, joined Jun 2004, 693 posts, RR: 0 Reply 29, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4563 times:
How likely is ANU being added to the list? With AA on that route from JFK, I'm not sure how much market will be left for B6. But with the pull out of MQ next year, is SJU-ANU likely from B6?
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
Stackhouse007 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 364 posts, RR: 2 Reply 30, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4546 times:
What about a service to BON? Would love to see more airlines trying to go there. Any thoughts?
How about MSP, MKE, STL, or MCI? It surprises me that to this day basically the whole midwest is ignored.
Could we see DTW in the future?
Back when AA was drawing down STL, there were rumors of B6 taking over Concourse D. Those never came to fruition.
IND has also been mentioned in the past as a new B6 city, but I don't think we will be seeing IND (which was rumored as an initial E190 city) anytime soon. DL already serves BOS and NYC very well from IND, and IND's costs are very high. Complicating matters, I read recently where IND management prefers to nurture existing service as opposed to throwing incentives at new entrants like B6. Though I've noticed that when IND does use incentives, they prefer the likes of Branson AirExpress (lasted 2 months) or Vision (slightly more successful to MYR) than getting an airline that they don't have or improving IND's abysmal West Coast access (VX, are you listening?).
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 32, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4564 times:
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 28): No it doesn't. Have you seen B6's route map. It doesn't make sense at all for B6.
Im referring to the lack of other LCC's to Florida. If B6 is willing to start cities like BDL (7x WN florida flights) and PVD (11x WN florida flights) then surely the scant remnants of DL CVG-Florida create some opportunities for them. BNA and CMH didnt try florida but had competition, CVG has nothing and sooner or later they will have WN if B6 doesnt go first.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5720 posts, RR: 20 Reply 33, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4547 times:
N766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 7991 posts, RR: 27 Reply 34, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4568 times:
I'd love to see them come to CLE. UAL flies unchecked on CLE-BOS (unless you count airtan from CAK) and CLE-JFK is dominated by regional jets. I'd bet JetBlue could capture a pretty good market share.
airliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 878 posts, RR: 1 Reply 35, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4574 times:
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 32): BNA and CMH didnt try florida but had competition, CVG has nothing and sooner or later they will have WN if B6 doesnt go first.
For B6 its less the MCO/FLL opportunity and more where the city being added is. If no one flies MCI or STL to Florida they aren't going to start service to either city because its just not in their plan. CVG in the case of B6 is in the same category.
Will they eventually go to the midwest? Maybe, but that is not their plan in the next 5-7 years.
airliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 878 posts, RR: 1 Reply 36, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4568 times:
Quoting N766UA (Reply 34): UAL flies unchecked on CLE-BOS (unless you count airtan from CAK) and CLE-JFK is dominated by regional jets.
CAK competes very well with CLE. FL flies CAK-BOS as you mention but they also fly CAK-LGA which really helps CAK.
NWADTWE16 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 242 posts, RR: 0 Reply 37, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4571 times:
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 28): Quoting brilondon (Reply 26):
Could we see DTW in the future?
Not only has Dave Barger hinted at it, he is from Detroit...
Cant wait! This WILL be a successful station right out of the gate..my prediction for DTW would be 1 daily FLL/2 daily JFK and sometime down the road 2 Daily BOS. I agree with those of you saying SJU-ANU and a few other carribean hotspots not yet served. B6 has become THE way to fly to the turquoise waters and they can only build more on that
Which tells me B6 might do well, considering a fair share of FL's CAK-BOS pax are dodging United's high fares. If JetBlue came in and offered 200$ r/t to UAL's $400, I'd bet they'd siphon quite a few people from both United at CLE and AirTran at CAK, especially considering B6's far superior service quality.
greggariouspdx From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 44 posts, RR: 0 Reply 39, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4517 times:
What about TUL ? Metro population of 1 million, a strong economy, and limited direct service to East and West Coasts.
spchamp1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 87 posts, RR: 0 Reply 41, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4466 times:
I wouldnt expect any new announcements from B6 that pertain to opening any new cities on the West. They will continue to expand BOS and the Carribbean for the forseable future. Here are my guesses as to what you could see in the next year.
1) ANC will go to year round service beginning in May when they have started service the last two years.
2) FAI will be announced as a seasonal route. They will run the same schedule that ANC did as a seasonal.
3) DTW or PHL will be announced. I dont really know why I see DTW as an option other than the CEO is from the Detroit area and has eluded to having a desire to fly there when the time is right. PHL is interesting. B6 is doing well on the BOS-DFW route and everyone said they were stupid for doing that. I understand there is some fierce loyalty to HP in PHL, but in this economy, customers are starting to switch their loyalty to Price as opposed to a carrier.
jetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2661 posts, RR: 36 Reply 42, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4463 times:
Quoting greggariouspdx (Reply 39): What about TUL ? Metro population of 1 million, a strong economy, and limited direct service to East and West Coasts.
OKC would come first if they came to this region. And I doubt OKC is on their list right now.
usafret From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 56 posts, RR: 0 Reply 43, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4483 times:
Would love to have them in STL, but D Concourse is mothballed and not being renovated like A and C (B is closed). US Airways just filled in some C Concourse gates next to the AA gates.
wingnutmn From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 586 posts, RR: 0 Reply 44, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4471 times:
I know it is not optimum when you could fly to JFK, but why doesn't B6 try to fly MSP-Caribbean direct? There are a ton of people who fly out of here with 1 or 2 stops already. You could fly SJU, STT or PUN 2-3 times a week and clean house. DL makes you connect in ATL, UA in EWR or IAH, AA in MIA. NK in FLL, get the point. At least give us a flight BOS or JFK. I can live without SFO or LAX, even though in winter MSP often is your fuel stop in strong winds.
Wingnut
Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
SCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 459 posts, RR: 0 Reply 46, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4486 times:
Can anyone name the major US airports JetBlue is not flying to yet?
I was very surprised when reading the comments, that they don't fly to ATL, DTW or MSP. I know most of those large airports not served by B6 are someone's hub, but I would think that a couple of flights to JFK, BOS, MCO or FLL would be feasible from some of them.
airliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 878 posts, RR: 1 Reply 47, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4486 times:
Quoting greggariouspdx (Reply 39):
What about TUL ? Metro population of 1 million, a strong economy, and limited direct service to East and West Coasts.
It does not go with B6 at all. The city can be large with a great economy but it doesn't fit with B6 at all. Very, very unlikely.
Lambertman From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2040 posts, RR: 38 Reply 49, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4520 times:
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 45): And at the rate things are going at STL, I think we could see WN take over/renovate the east D gates and reopen the D-E connector...
There's no market for them in St. Louis, unfortunately. They were set to enter in 2006 - when there was opportunity, but with WN beefing up St. Louis to the east coast, there's nothing left.
I imagine we may see a couple routes like ICT and/or GRR, but aside from that I don't think WN will be expanding much past their current service levels.
BOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1887 posts, RR: 0 Reply 50, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4555 times:
The five largest markets not served from BOS by B6 are PHL (1270 PDEW from the Boston CSA), ATL (1052 PDEW), MSP (577 PDEW), HOU (493 PDEW), and DTW (440 PDEW). The Boston CSA also includes PVD and MHT, however. The DOT now groups all cities by their CSAs.
Aside from those five, MIA might have a shot, even though PBI and FLL are already served.
I also wonder when they will announce ORH, which looks like a strong possibility. At that point, however, they might as well add ISP and MHT.
USAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2681 posts, RR: 1 Reply 51, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4456 times:
In the Northeast/New England:
-PHL
-ALB
-MHT
-ISP
I'd be willing to be MHT will get B6 service at one point or another. I'm surprised they haven't tried that yet.
I'm not going to go on and on about ALB service, I'm just surprised they haven't even considered it, considering they fly to BUF, ROC, SYR, BTV, PWM, PVD, BDL, SWF, HPN..I always thought it was too close to JFK, but seeing as both PVD and BDL will get B6 service, who knows.
bos2laf From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 354 posts, RR: 0 Reply 52, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4394 times:
As far as ATL goes: Credible sources tell me that its a great big "Hell no!" and I'm inclined to believe them. The WN/FL merger was a major game-changer for B6 ever returning to ATL.
ORH: Don't forget, Massport owns ORH, and B6 was trying desperately to finally get a deal done for all of Terminal C. Massport is trying desperately to bring service to ORH. My gut tells me that this could be a case of "You scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours." Let's face it, we all know that this is how Massport operates. I also came across a video on either twitter or facebook a while back of Marty St. George going around the offices at Long Island City with a poster that said "Worcester" asking everyone how to pronounce the city name. ORH is as poorly kept of a secret as PVD was.
CLE, CVG, and MEM: I am of the opinion that this is some serious low-hanging fruit for B6. Both are legacy hubs where the incumbent carriers have cut back on service, but still have a stranglehold on fares and for all intents and purposes are the only game in town. B6's whole justification for entering BOS-EWR was CO's outrageous fares and their monopoly on the route. The same logic could be applied to say, BOS-CLE or BOS-CVG.
MSP and DTW: I've heard these rumblings, and in my own opinion, B6 would be downright stupid to enter these markets. They're both DL mega-hubs, and DL also has a hub in JFK and a sizeable operation in BOS, so there's a FF base on both ends for DL. DL is also much much more likely to go nuclear if B6 were to start JFK/BOS to DTW/MSP than if they were to go into CVG or MEM which are like the red-headed stepchildren of DL hubs.
PHL: If PHL were to join the B6 network, my thought is that it would only be BOS-PHL. Anything else, and US would run them out of town just like WN. If B6 came in with sensible fares, and not trying to slash prices to the bone like WN did with their $39 BOS-PHL fares, and a respectable number of frequencies, like 7 or 8, they might just be able to co-exist with US without p***ing them off too much.
usairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3097 posts, RR: 8 Reply 53, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4257 times:
Quoting bos2laf (Reply 52): PHL: If PHL were to join the B6 network, my thought is that it would only be BOS-PHL. Anything else, and US would run them out of town just like WN. If B6 came in with sensible fares, and not trying to slash prices to the bone like WN did with their $39 BOS-PHL fares, and a respectable number of frequencies, like 7 or 8, they might just be able to co-exist with US without p***ing them off too much.
Actually WN has been able to hold onto many of the PHL-Florida flts. Granted they gained a few with FL. Where as WN flew PHL-BOS for all of a few months, it was definitely less than a year and not only did US run them off PHL-BOS but also PHL-MHT/PVD/BDL. I agree the WN fares were way to cheap but B6 will have to reduce fares rather substantially at first to gain marketshare on the PHL side. I will say though that I think this route is perfect for the 190. WN and back when FL tried it both did not have this size aircraft to offer the frequency without offering a ton of capacity.
BHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1283 posts, RR: 4 Reply 54, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4242 times:
Quoting usafret (Reply 43): Would love to have them in STL, but D Concourse is mothballed and not being renovated like A and C (B is closed). US Airways just filled in some C Concourse gates next to the AA gates.
Still plenty of gates on C, even with US taking a couple. Nothing stopping them..
Quoting Lambertman (Reply 49): There's no market for them in St. Louis, unfortunately. They were set to enter in 2006 - when there was opportunity, but with WN beefing up St. Louis to the east coast, there's nothing left.
Agreed, that ship has sailed. Shame, I flew them recently coming back from the Caribbean and their service was first rate.
bos2laf From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 354 posts, RR: 0 Reply 55, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4238 times:
Quoting usairways85 (Reply 53): Actually WN has been able to hold onto many of the PHL-Florida flts.
And that's why you probably won't see anything more than PHL-BOS on B6 if at all. They look for routes where there's not a lot of competition, so there's no way you'll see them jump into PHL-Florida competing with US on their home turf in addition to WN.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5157 posts, RR: 2 Reply 56, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4234 times:
Quoting avi8 (Reply 6): Central America should be in their plans as well as more Carribbean service. I would assume a couple of more domestic cities but most expanssion will be out of SJU or international.
Here is the list in order of preference for C. American for Jet Blue (as I see it)
GUA
BZE
PTY
SAL
SAP.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
richierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4022 posts, RR: 6 Reply 57, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4237 times:
Quoting bos2laf (Reply 55): And that's why you probably won't see anything more than PHL-BOS on B6 if at all. They look for routes where there's not a lot of competition, so there's no way you'll see them jump into PHL-Florida competing with US on their home turf in addition to WN.
I agree - BOS-PHL is a very likely possibility but PHL would only be served from BOS. Much like B6 currently does with BWI (adding PHL service may even result in a draw down of BWI.)
SurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2588 posts, RR: 31 Reply 58, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4190 times:
Here are a few of my ideas:
ANU - I believe the island has been in talks with B6 for quite some time. As one of the larger Caribbean markets without service, and a rather healthy mix of VFR and tourists, I bet it will come online sooner or later. Continue the Caribbean expansion.
ATL - Other than PHL, this is really the only other glaring hole in their route map. I would think this is one of their top requested destinations from a FF perspective. Nothing crazy: just a few daily flights from BOS and JFK to serve those needs. With the feed from international partners, healthy O&D and a strong Northeast FF base, it might just work! They could also serve the airport from SJU.
BON - Continue the Caribbean expansion.
Central America - There's more than just Costa Rica. Surely some of the other nations could support service to Florida (MCO and/or FLL), perhaps even JFK? There's the more touristy markets like BZE, RTB, and PTY or the VFR-heavy ones like GUA, SAP, MGA, TGU, and SAL.
CUR - Continue the Caribbean expansion.
CZM - If they can make CTG work from JFK, serving this diving hotspot seems like a no brainer to me.
EYW - Can they get the E-190 in and out of there without prohibitive penalties? They do get it into MVY, where the primary runway is only 5,504 ft. EYW's 4,801 ft runway can handle WN 737s (all the way to MSY), DL A319s (all the way to ATL) and 73Gs (all the way to LGA), and USX E-170s (all the way to DCA) without much trouble. If there is a big Northeast-Key West market, perhaps B6 could cater to this with a MCO-EYW service connecting to its Northeast flights (BOS/BDL/PVD/HPN/EWR/LGA/JFK) in and out of MCO. Given that WN's MCO-EYW doesn't effectively connect to/serve the Boston and NYC markets, it wouldn't suffer from too much competitive pressure.
GND - Continue the Caribbean expansion.
MEX/TLC - B6 does very well to VFR Latin markets, why not jump into the biggest one of all? Now, U.S.-MEX authorities are scarce, but they could at least do MCO-MEX, and I believe FLL-MEX as well - no U.S. carrier flies FLL-MEX, and if FLL is lumped together with MIA on the bilateral wouldn't AA have the sole "Miami"-MEX authority on the U.S. side? Surely they could do BOS-MEX too, but I doubt the O&D for that route is there. If they really wanted to fly NYC-Mexico City, they could always do JFK-TLC.
MIA - Yes, the airport is notoriously expensive, but not everyone headed to Florida's Gold Coast wants to use FLL and PBI. Some very big draws (not to mention extremely rich areas) like South Beach, Coral Gables, Key Biscayne, and the Florida Keys are much more accessible from MIA than FLL. B6 couldn't keep serving San Francisco and Los Angeles through cheap alternate airports forever, and appears to be happy with the yield premium they get at SFO/LAX versus OAK/SJC/BUR/LGB/ONT. Granted, the advent of VX may have had a lot to do with B6 finally starting SFO/LAX, but I still think MIA would be worth their while. As costs and congestion rise at FLL, perhaps MIA might not seem so crazy after all. Nothing crazy: just a few daily flights from BOS and JFK, perhaps even LGA or HPN, to complement their FLL ops. With the feed from international partners, healthy O&D and a strong Northeast FF base, it might just work! They could also serve the airport from SJU.
PAP - I would have expected to see B6 there by now. They are a master at serving the Caribbean VFR markets, and this one is reputed to be a gold mine. Perhaps crew/security issues are a concern?
PHL - B6 is a powerhouse in the Northeast, and Philadelphia is BY FAR the largest Northeastern market they do not serve. Service to Florida probably wouldn't be a good idea, but I daresay WN/FL left a void in the PHL-BOS market. They could also do PHL-SJU, which used to see competition between US and AA but is now a US monopoly.
POS - I would have expected to see B6 there by now. They are a master at serving the Caribbean VFR markets, after all. Perhaps aircraft capabilities are an issue? In that case, couldn't it work from MCO/FLL? Maybe too much competition from Caribbean Airlines?
SAT - I believe this is the largest domestic market outside of the LGA perimeter (within the continental U.S.) that B6 does not serve. I'm not sure if it falls more in the category of smaller heartland markets like BNA/CMH/STL that will never see B6 service, as it is a populous sunbelt market in its own right with a fairly big tourist/VFR draw - perhaps more along the lines of JAX and MSY.
SAV - IIRC this was rumored, and if CHS can work, I suppose it could too.
airliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 878 posts, RR: 1 Reply 59, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4185 times:
deltairlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8771 posts, RR: 13 Reply 61, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4196 times:
Quoting chrisnh (Reply 40):
The talk of Worcester, Massachusetts is just SILLY with Boston being so close by.
Why, that's like them flying to Los Angeles AND Long Beach.
Just silly.
No, it really is silly.
Comparing the JetBlue LA basin operation to BOS/ORH is Apples/Oranges. In California, JetBlue was hampered by a (rather limited) number of slots at LGB - there was no possible way to expand without hoping to grab slots from other airlines. SNA has a similar issue with slots, so they couldn't go there. ONT is out in the Valley and is not all that practical. Burbank is also limited. That means having to go into Los Angeles to expand, which is what they did.
In Boston, they don't need to deal with slots - the only limitation is the number of gates they have, which will even further improve once UA moves to B once the expansion there is done.
This doesn't even mention the fact that the Boston market is noticeably smaller than the Los Angeles market (it's still a large market, but it ain't LA), plus the access to ORH is lacking (and that's being kind)
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 58): ANU - I believe the island has been in talks with B6 for quite some time. As one of the larger Caribbean markets without service, and a rather healthy mix of VFR and tourists, I bet it will come online sooner or later. Continue the Caribbean expansion.
Would not shock me.
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 58): PAP - I would have expected to see B6 there by now. They are a master at serving the Caribbean VFR markets, and this one is reputed to be a gold mine. Perhaps crew/security issues are a concern?
Market is oversaturated right now with Delta, United and American all in the NYC-PAP market. Given the fact that PAP is dealing with the aftermath of Sandy now, I'd be shocked if PAP came in sooner than later. I wouldn't exactly call this market a gold mine though.
Rather limited market...only daily service to SKB from the States is American from Miami. If they came into SKB, it'd probably be a couple of 190s to SJU with maybe some sort of less-than-daily JFK service.
airliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 878 posts, RR: 1 Reply 63, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4154 times:
Quoting werdywerd (Reply 62):
I believe a new city will be announced tomorrow and from what I can see, don't think anyone has guessed it yet
Something I haven't seen come up but the airport has made a big deal about is PHF and JetBlue.
I also remember Dave Barger mention Hyannis as a possibility and that wasn't mentioned.
If you are saying it hasn't been mentioned those are two of my guesses if its domestic. International wise it could be anywhere, too many places to even mention. Guess i'll have to wait and see.
BOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1887 posts, RR: 0 Reply 64, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4142 times:
Does anyone know how many new cities are supposed to be announced in 2013? Or how many will start in 2013? CHS will start in 2013, but was announced in 2012. Likewise if there is a new city to be announced tomorrow. There will be some announcements after January 1st I'm sure.
jetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2785 posts, RR: 15 Reply 66, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4121 times:
Quoting werdywerd (Reply 62): I believe a new city will be announced tomorrow and from what I can see, don't think anyone has guessed it yet
Must be domestic unless it's really outside the box Caribbean/international.
Putting a couple dollars on PHL.
It's 10:18 on the East Coast and we haven't heard anything yet.
JetBluefan1
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
slcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2452 posts, RR: 0 Reply 71, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4146 times:
Quoting STT757 (Reply 2): It's very unlikely they are going to CVG, if they couldn't make CMH and BNA work how on Earth is CVG going to work?
CMH and BNA both have major low cost carrier competition. CVG is up against all legacies and high average fares. I could see CVG working
richierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4022 posts, RR: 6 Reply 72, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4149 times:
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 67): I see ALB on the city list on jetblue.com....
although... might just be a 9K codeshare via BOS for them...
There's a lot of non-B6 cities on their city drop-down list, including Hawaii and other AA connection cities. ALB is most likely a Cape Air connection, as you indicated.
jetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2785 posts, RR: 15 Reply 73, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4155 times:
Quoting werdywerd (Reply 70): HINT:
It's west of PIT and east of LAX
So the Midwest?
For some reason, CLE is sticking out to me. No longer a CO/UA mega-hub, small WN presence. No other LCC competition, and likely healthy traffic from BOS and FLL/MCO.
JetBluefan1
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
richierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4022 posts, RR: 6 Reply 74, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4154 times:
Quoting werdywerd (Reply 70): HINT:
It's west of PIT and east of LAX
Last I heard it was going to be announced later today, but like everything else, it sometimes gets delayed. Lets see what happens.
Tantalizing clues, werdywerd!
I did hear that B6 was recently in Roswell but that was only a place to safe harbor a plane or two during Hurricane Sandy!
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 75, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4151 times:
CVG has a total offering of 3x MCO 1x FLL on DL
In contrast PVD has a total of 7x MCO (6x off peak) and 3x FLL (2x off peak)
There is more than enough room for B6 there on Florida only for now and they can rock the boat with BOS and JFK later once they are more established in the market.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
bos2laf From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 354 posts, RR: 0 Reply 76, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4134 times:
Quoting werdywerd (Reply 70): HINT:
It's west of PIT and east of LAX
That doesn't necessarily mean the midwest. If the hint was between PIT and DEN, then I would say the midwest was a sure bet.
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 75): There is more than enough room for B6 there on Florida only for now and they can rock the boat with BOS and JFK later once they are more established in the market.
Don't forget though, that they're plenty established in BOS and pursuing the BOS business travelers hardcore. That alone was enough to push them into DFW, and the conventional wisdom around here was that they would wait for DAL.
If B6 were to go into CVG, and I had to make a guess as to hypothetical destinations and frequencies, my predictions would be:
turk223 From Barbados, joined Aug 2003, 369 posts, RR: 1 Reply 77, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4127 times:
I'd like to think B6 will see some growth in its hub operation at SJU and start more intra-Caribbean flights... There is little connectivity between many islands and SJU what with American Eagle pulling its flights. POS, BGI, GND, UVF, ANU could all fit well perhaps?
flyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 851 posts, RR: 0 Reply 78, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4197 times:
Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 64): Does anyone know how many new cities are supposed to be announced in 2013? Or how many will start in 2013? CHS will start in 2013, but was announced in 2012. Likewise if there is a new city to be announced tomorrow. There will be some announcements after January 1st I'm sure.
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 79, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4156 times:
Quoting bos2laf (Reply 76): on't forget though, that they're plenty established in BOS and pursuing the BOS business travelers hardcore
I dont doubt that BOS would be in the cards, im just saying CVG would be super easy and if they did MCO/FLL Delta probably would even bat an eye, whereas they would probably throw a frequency and upguage CVG-BOS (not to the extenf of JFK though).
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
If they can make CTG work then there a whole lot of other destinations than can surely work too...places like RTB. CTG is the talk of the travel industry right now.....
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
flyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1919 posts, RR: 11 Reply 81, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4159 times:
If it's Domestic - what about DTW? I do a lot of travel to the northeast and it's been costing a pretty penny lately.
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 82, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4158 times:
I believe that ISP would have already been announced had they not gotten the additional slots at LGA. Divert the Florida traffic to keep gates for business traffic. ISP will see B6 sooner rather than later, 2013? maybe, before 2015? I say yes.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4720 posts, RR: 15 Reply 83, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4162 times:
Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 81): If it's Domestic - what about DTW? I do a lot of travel to the northeast and it's been costing a pretty penny lately.
If we are to pay any attention to werdywerd, who also offered the hints in reply #70 that people seem to be paying attention to, (and he seems to know what he is talking about), he also said:
Quoting werdywerd (Reply 62): I believe a new city will be announced tomorrow and from what I can see, don't think anyone has guessed it yet.
DTW has -- along with many other cities! -- been mentioned several times in this thread...
isp2 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 13 posts, RR: 0 Reply 86, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4323 times:
In addition to the new JFK-ABQ service, B6 is ending JFK-PIT, BUR-LAS, end reducing BUR overall to a single redeye flight to JFK. JFK-LAX to increase to 6X, and BOS-PIT remains.
Yawn. JFK-TUS flopped as a route for B6, and JFK-ABQ will too. The O&D just isn't there. This route would be better served by DL, since DL can provide flights timed right for international connections. CO's former EWR-ABQ route flopped since it focused solely on O&D and completely ignored passengers who wanted to connect to an international route. No reason to think B6 would do any better.
[Edited 2012-11-14 10:57:49]
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
mbm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 787 posts, RR: 1 Reply 89, posted (6 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4215 times:
Quoting N766UA (Reply 34): I'd love to see them come to CLE. UAL flies unchecked on CLE-BOS (unless you count airtan from CAK) and CLE-JFK is dominated by regional jets. I'd bet JetBlue could capture a pretty good market share.
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 36): CAK competes very well with CLE. FL flies CAK-BOS as you mention but they also fly CAK-LGA which really helps CAK.
Granted, being from CLE makes me a bit biased, but the businessman in me looks at the relatively under served CLE - JFK route (DL 2x and AA 1x) combined with the ridiculous fares to the market and think it could do pretty well for B6. Sure, there are those flocking down Interstate 77 to CAK to fly the new WN to LGA and BOS but there are a LOT more who simply will not bother.
Heck, I am still annoyed that UA does not do at least 1x a day to feed the Star Alliance flights, but that is for another thread....
Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
Stackhouse007 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 364 posts, RR: 2 Reply 90, posted (6 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4211 times:
Quoting turk223 (Reply 77): I'd like to think B6 will see some growth in its hub operation at SJU and start more intra-Caribbean flights... There is little connectivity between many islands and SJU what with American Eagle pulling its flights. POS, BGI, GND, UVF, ANU could all fit well perhaps?
I agree. I think that would be awesome for B6. I want to see more service into BON!
BOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1887 posts, RR: 0 Reply 91, posted (6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4274 times:
The jetBlue blog shows new service to not one, but two new cities, the first being ABQ but the second being AZS (Samana, DR). Both routes will be JFK-only.
Quoting flyby519 (Reply 78): 5 new bluecities in 2013 (including CHS)
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4720 posts, RR: 15 Reply 93, posted (6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4218 times:
Quoting isp2 (Reply 86): In addition to the new JFK-ABQ service, B6 is ending JFK-PIT, BUR-LAS, end reducing BUR overall to a single redeye flight to JFK. JFK-LAX to increase to 6X, and BOS-PIT remains
In light of what another insider (I assume) said,
Quoting werdywerd (Reply 84): Well our 77th City has been announced internally (Fellow Jetblue peeps check your email)
It will be publicly announced tomorrow!
I assume you, isp2', were not out of line reporting what you just did.
That being said, and IF it is true, I had thought about ABQ but couldn't possibly think Blue would start there. As has been said already, they didn't last very long in TUS and PHX is a pretty thin operation so that part of the country doesn't seem like a natural for B6. But this is New Mexico and not Arizona, and it might make a big difference. (And I'm sure B6 has reasons and thought this out very carefully so...)
(And besides, I'm mad that the company is making me eat my words about their ignoring the western half of the country!)
In any case, I'm sure those in ABQ will be happy to have another tenant at the Sunport and I do hope Blue can make the route succeed. Good luck to all involved!
flyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 851 posts, RR: 0 Reply 97, posted (6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4207 times:
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 88): I agree, that this will probable be started by UA at EWR and or DL at JFK...at all will get knocked off an unprofitable route.
JFK-PIT is sad. They can not seem to make these short hauls out of JFK work.
Just from schedule, I can see CLT and RDU axed next from JFK.
Actually, can see CLT axed altogether. 2 daily to JFK and 1-2 daily to BOS just isn't cutting it.
Agreed. It is sad, but the only things seemingly working from JFK are Florida and Caribbean routes.
1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 5756 posts, RR: 2 Reply 98, posted (6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4236 times:
Hopefully DL is paying attention to this announcement. DL really needs to respond by offering ABQ-JFK flights that provide adequate time to make international connections, which would give DL a key advantage that B6 lacks.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 99, posted (6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4216 times:
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 98): Hopefully DL is paying attention to this announcement. DL really needs to respond by offering ABQ-JFK flights that provide adequate time to make international connections, which would give DL a key advantage that B6 lacks.
Couple things...
1) How much international traffic does ABQ really generate that cannot be accomodated via ATL? Really enough to merit a daytime ABQ-JFK flight and JFK primetime slot?
2) You should probably hope that DL does NOT respond, because I think we all know how that will end....right back where you are today, with neither airline on the route.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
deltairlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8771 posts, RR: 13 Reply 100, posted (6 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4206 times:
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 98): Hopefully DL is paying attention to this announcement. DL really needs to respond by offering ABQ-JFK flights that provide adequate time to make international connections, which would give DL a key advantage that B6 lacks.
Why?
Atlanta offers connections to every major city in Europe - JFK hits the more secondary cities (and tertiary in the summer, when ATL gets some seasonals to those secondary cities). ATL also covers all the northeast flow cities that can be reached out of JFK.
So basically, adding JFK-ABQ for Delta (which would need to be an A319 at a minimum, so 126 seats) basically adds some feed to smaller European cities and that's it for connecting traffic. This same connecting traffic is much more logically able to double connect in SLC/ATL/MSP and then CDG/AMS to get to their destination - I tend to doubt there are enough people going from ABQ to cities such as MXP, FCO, etc. in the middle of winter each day to make it worthwhile.
Delta running JFK-ABQ would be about equal to me taking a dollar out of my wallet and setting it on fire. It's a nonsensical idea.
jetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2785 posts, RR: 15 Reply 101, posted (6 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4237 times:
Quoting isp2 (Reply 86): In addition to the new JFK-ABQ service, B6 is ending JFK-PIT, BUR-LAS, end reducing BUR overall to a single redeye flight to JFK. JFK-LAX to increase to 6X, and BOS-PIT remains.
ABQ is really a complete surprise. I would think that with oil at $85+/bbl, long and thin cross-country (or nearly cross-country) flights would be massively unprofitable. I can't help but think this won't be anymore successful than JFK-TUS/ONT. Flights to SEA/PHX/BUR/OAK/SJC/SMF/PDX are also hurting, and most of those have higher O&D and similar competition (see: none or just a handful of seats).
The ending of JFK-PIT is unsurprising; it has always been a lousy performer. Short-haul JFK domestic flying just won't work when airlines out of LGA offer multiple frequencies. Domestic JFK flying is really only proftiable when it's beyond-LGA-border and when it's to Florida (or Upstate NY, given B6's huge following there). BOS-PIT is a solid performer though, and should be enough to keep the PIT station open and operating profitably.
BUR-LAS should have been axed awhile ago. I believe it was operated simply for aircraft positioning purposes. But seeing BUR go down to just one daily flight is very sad; JFK-BUR used to be extremely popular, and B6 has always held a monopoly on this niche route.
The increase on JFK-LAX is unsurprising.
JetBluefan1
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
jfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2648 posts, RR: 5 Reply 102, posted (6 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4212 times:
Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 101): BOS-PIT is a solid performer though, and should be enough to keep the PIT station open and operating profitably.
It is not. They are paring their losses. Let's face it, any of these cities with 2 or 3 flights (besides the redeye cities that use an otherwise idle aircraft) are money losers.
You think IAD makes money with 1 LGB, 2 JFK and 3 or 4 BOS? No way
You think RDU with 2 or 3 JFK and 3 or 4 BOS makes money? No way
You think CLT with 2 daily to JFK and BOS makes money? No way
Each of these markets including PIT has double or more frequency on one or more established airlines. So B6 is either picking low hanging fruit and barely making money, or in the case of a place like BWI, they are literally bleeding money.
The transcon, once a day redeyes fill a niche. Things like PDX, SMF, and OAK probably do okay if fuel is cheap as they have little or no competition.
But if you look at a place where they have stiff competition: DEN, PHX, SLC...they are likely losing their shirts.
B6 is profitable and as long as they make money, they can run their airline as they see fit. Personally, I would like to see them use a model more like WN: if you can't have 10 flights a day to numerous cities in the network, why bother? (excluding international)
Time will tell if this strategy works, or if it just sets them up for JetBlue Division, American Airlines. It's really anyones guess at this point
usairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3097 posts, RR: 8 Reply 103, posted (6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4210 times:
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 102): B6 is profitable and as long as they make money, they can run their airline as they see fit. Personally, I would like to see them use a model more like WN: if you can't have 10 flights a day to numerous cities in the network, why bother? (excluding international)
Well WN has how many "focus cities/hubs"? B6 has LGB/BOS/JFK/MCO/FLL/SJU. Throw out LGB and maybe SJU and places like RDU/CLT/PIT really only have 4 big B6 airports. And honestly those 4 airports aren't great connecting airports geographically.
I can understand B6 choosing it's destinations wisely but they can't completely shy away from competition. Heck there are far fewer major's to compete with, yes probably fewer paxs, but still.
The only reason I stated that it's a "solid performer" is because B6 management constantly reminds shareholders that BOS is very profitable as yields continue to increase due to a) a growing base of corporate contracts, b) a relatively strong economy, and c) little direct competition.
On a purely speculative note (just like everything else that I say)...Perhaps the incremental cost that B6 spends from having routes like BOS-PIT/CLT/RDU/ORD/RIC/BWI in its network is more than offset by the incremental revenue B6 takes in from Boston-based business travelers who demand a wide range of destinations.
Let's face it -- no other airline really gives a crap about BOS, and at this point B6 is so entrenched that other airlines would have a difficult time gaining a foothold. If B6 were to ignore the large markets I mentioned, it is likely that another airline (say, WN) would swoop in and try to capture that traffic. This would make it easier for that airline to compete with B6 on its highly coveted BOS-Florida/California/Caribbean flying. Flying unprofitable routes is necessary to protect the profitable routes. (It sounds insane, but I think there's truth to it.)
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 102): Let's face it, any of these cities with 2 or 3 flights (besides the redeye cities that use an otherwise idle aircraft) are money losers
Agreed. I think the E190's, in hindsight 20/20, were a big mistake. On paper, they should make shorter routes to mid-sized markets highly viable and easier to compete on. However, in practice, this does not seem to be the case.
JetBluefan1
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 5756 posts, RR: 2 Reply 105, posted (6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4198 times:
For some reason, I can't help it but think that the City of Albuquerque probably gave B6 some incentives to start the route. If JFK-TUS didn't work for B6, neither will JFK-ABQ unless the route is heavily subsidized. O&D alone isn't going to cut it for such a route; there needs to be a balance between O&D and connecting traffic.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
Flytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 524 posts, RR: 0 Reply 106, posted (6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4209 times:
Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 101): BOS-PIT is a solid performer though, and should be enough to keep the PIT station open and operating profitably.
B6 might want to consider PIT-MCO/FLL as a replacement of JFK. It'll be a loss leader until FL ceases. The WN flights won't be on the travel websites like expedia and WN won't have the WN+FL capacity on WN. So B6 could be the FL replacement. While waiting for FL to cease to happen first may make sense, WN could fly BOS-PIT first, hurting B6 at PIT, in attempt to push B6 out of PIT altogether.
bjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 2776 posts, RR: 2 Reply 107, posted (6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4195 times:
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 58): PAP - I would have expected to see B6 there by now.
I think Haiti is still a wreck.
Quoting richierich (Reply 74):
I did hear that B6 was recently in Roswell but that was only a place to safe harbor a plane or two during Hurricane Sandy!
I believe they were there for paint.
"An idea has to be incredibly absurd to have any reasonable chance of succeeding" --A. Einstein
USAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2681 posts, RR: 1 Reply 108, posted (6 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 4200 times:
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 88): Just from schedule, I can see CLT and RDU axed next from JFK.
Actually, can see CLT axed altogether. 2 daily to JFK and 1-2 daily to BOS just isn't cutting it.
Sadly, I agree. I often wonder who flies the CLT-JFK/BOS flight simply because business customers based in CLT are likely loyal to US. I'd be curious to see what the load factor is for CLT.
Currently, B6 is flying 2 daily flights to both JFK and BOS from CLT, and previously flew CLT-FLL, but was ran out of the market by US.
In comparison, US flies 9x to BOS from CLT, with 6 of the flights being A321s. US flies CLT-JFK 5x a day, with one flight being a A321. DL also flies CLT-JFK twice a day.
glbltrvlr From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 484 posts, RR: 0 Reply 109, posted (6 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4178 times:
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 105): For some reason, I can't help it but think that the City of Albuquerque probably gave B6 some incentives to start the route.
They reduced landing fees and gate rent - but under the same terms that are offered to any new airline. No route subsidies.
ABQ747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 833 posts, RR: 1 Reply 110, posted (6 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4183 times:
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 87): Yawn. JFK-TUS flopped as a route for B6, and JFK-ABQ will too. The O&D just isn't there.
The problem with TUS is that they bleed so much traffic to PHX, whereas ABQ serves the entire state of New Mexico. I think the ABQ flight will do just fine. This flight is long overdue.
The reason New Mexico is so windy is because Texas sucks and Arizona blows.
glbltrvlr From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 484 posts, RR: 0 Reply 111, posted (6 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4170 times:
Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 110): I think the ABQ flight will do just fine.
I'm also very optimistic. There is a very large community tie between ABQ and NYC that supported non-stop service by TWA for years. Assuming the economy doesn't tank completely, I think there is a good shot at making this route work.
JFK-ABQ certainly comes as a surprise. I had considered all domestic markets outside of the LGA perimeter, and I figured SAT seemed to be the best option based on market size, sunbelt/tourist appeal, etc. Of course, it seems B6 went ahead with ABQ for similar reasons, and unlike SAT they don't have to worry about established DL competition. That is not to say DL won't suddenly jump on the route now, or more likely UA add EWR-ABQ given their strength in the ABQ and NYC markets. Of course, there is a reason DL serves SAT but not ABQ.. I suspect there may be a generou$ subsidy behind this service. B6 hasn't had much luck with service to the region, even the huge PHX market appears to be an incessant struggle for them. Then there was TUS, but that may not be a fair comparison given the rapidly declining local and national economic conditions at the time and close proximity of PHX with vastly superior schedules/options. There is no alternate to ABQ and I'd say the local market is doing a lot better than TUS was when B6 served it.
Sad to see JFK-PIT ending, I had wanted to use the service to keep my B6 account active. Do you know when it ends? Maybe I'll still have a chance to get on it. After all, PIT is the closest thing to B6 service that Cleveland will ever see! That said, I'm not surprised to see it go - once they dropped JFK-RIC, it was only a matter of time before other weak within-perimeter markets like PIT (once publicly chastised by B6 for not supporting their service) lost JFK too. At least PIT keeps B6 to BOS, which will offer all of the key connections that JFK did, and who knows, maybe they'll get nonstops to Florida, perhaps even SJU.
Very sad to see BUR get cut like this, in favor of yet more service out of the nightmare that is LAX. LAS-BUR was merely an aircraft utilization tool between JFK-BUR flights, it was never competitive against the WN shuttle, but the loss of the daylight JFK-BUR flights is very sad. People love the convenience and ease of BUR, and know that B6 offers a nonstop all the way to New York from it, but simply won't pay enough to make it worth B6's while. After a wildly unsuccessful expansion from BUR (back when they first hit the LGB slot cap and refused to serve LAX) B6 has been slowly but steadily reducing its BUR ops. This may very well be the final straw, with a full B6 withdrawal from BUR to come next. The late night/red eye schedule is unattractive for many pax, who will opt for the superior schedules and options from LAX now more than ever before. This is the last thing BUR needs - WN just cut its nonstop DEN flights, which probably rules out any potential new stuff like SFO, RNO, MDW, etc. Now, if B6 were to drop the route, I have to wonder if anyone would step in to fill the void. VX could actually have a niche route, and with their F perhaps actually get some high-yielding customers, but they are still probably far too busy jumping into competitive blood baths . DL couldn't even make JFK-SNA work and AA completely abandoned the BUR market itself, so the only slim possibility would be a UA EWR-BUR.
I don't understand why BUR is struggling so much these days. They will soon offer by far the lowest costs in the L.A. area, what with LGB and LAX doing all kinds of costly improvements. Perhaps then carriers like NK and F9 may take a look at partially or perhaps even fully relocating to the airport. At this point, I have to think BUR has enough space to accommodate G4. Don't tell me their MD-80s are too loud - AA flew them in right until their last day. And G4 can always send in the new A319s. The airport is very convenient if headed to places like Sherman Oaks, Hollywood, Pasadena, and even downtown LA (which you can reach by train if you want to skip the 101 traffic). All of those areas have lots and lots of well off people . Not to mention proximity to attractions like the L.A. Zoo, Griffith Observatory, Universal Studios, etc. This isn't ONT, an airport surrounded by many lower income areas that is a trek from virtually everywhere people want to go. Anyone know why BUR is doing so poorly these days?
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
BOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1887 posts, RR: 0 Reply 118, posted (6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 4135 times:
Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 91): Quoting flyby519 (Reply 78):5 new bluecities in 2013 (including CHS)Nice!
On second thought, two of those cities, CHS and ABQ, have already been announced, leaving only three, and I have a feeling that one of those is either ORH or HYA.
Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 104): On a purely speculative note (just like everything else that I say)...Perhaps the incremental cost that B6 spends from having routes like BOS-PIT/CLT/RDU/ORD/RIC/BWI in its network is more than offset by the incremental revenue B6 takes in from Boston-based business travelers who demand a wide range of destinations.
Let's face it -- no other airline really gives a crap about BOS, and at this point B6 is so entrenched that other airlines would have a difficult time gaining a foothold. If B6 were to ignore the large markets I mentioned, it is likely that another airline (say, WN) would swoop in and try to capture that traffic. This would make it easier for that airline to compete with B6 on its highly coveted BOS-Florida/California/Caribbean flying. Flying unprofitable routes is necessary to protect the profitable routes. (It sounds insane, but I think there's truth to it.)
I think there is some truth to that. BOS is so easy for them to get the corporate contracts at and if it means serving smaller and less profitable markets to get more pax on its profitable routes, so be it.
I love how Dave Barger said that there "might be synergies" between ABQ and BOS. If BOS ever grows to the size of the other East Coast hubs, seasonal ABQ might happen, but that's a long way off!
glbltrvlr From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 484 posts, RR: 0 Reply 119, posted (6 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4141 times:
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 99): 1) How much international traffic does ABQ really generate that cannot be accomodated via ATL? Really enough to merit a daytime ABQ-JFK flight and JFK primetime slot?
Unfortunately, that isn't what is happening. The ABQ-JFK leg is a redeye that leaves ABQ at 11:55PM and arrives at JFK at 5:57AM. The return flight leaves JFK at 8:25PM and arrives at 11:04PM. While avoiding Atlanta is always a good idea, neither of those times are make for prime international connections.
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 120, posted (6 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4113 times:
Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 119): Unfortunately, that isn't what is happening. The ABQ-JFK leg is a redeye that leaves ABQ at 11:55PM and arrives at JFK at 5:57AM. The return flight leaves JFK at 8:25PM and arrives at 11:04PM. While avoiding Atlanta is always a good idea, neither of those times are make for prime international connections.
Thats not what I was getting at... my point was that chances are ABQ does not generate enough european demand to justify the daytime flight and primetime JFK slot. 95% of ABQ's european demand can probably be accomodated via other hubs, so really its red-eye or nothing.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
glbltrvlr From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 484 posts, RR: 0 Reply 121, posted (6 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4117 times:
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 120): Thats not what I was getting at... my point was that chances are ABQ does not generate enough european demand to justify the daytime flight and primetime JFK slot.
Sorry - read your post too fast. I agree ABQ is on the margins. There is a significant government presence in ABQ (actually greater New Mexico) and a stable film & television production footprint. It remains to be seen if the local and Santa Fe will support the red eye flight enough to migrate it to prime time.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4720 posts, RR: 15 Reply 124, posted (6 months 1 week ago) and read 4105 times:
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 123): And BURJFK down to a measily one daily. B6 once had quite the operate at Burbank...
...Adding BUR to the list of other Blue stations in the west with just 1 or 2 daily flights. And if it weren't for the slot-squatting filler flights that B6 op's between LGB and several of the western cities, there would be many more dual-flight stations on that list.
YVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2086 posts, RR: 0 Reply 126, posted (6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4078 times:
How about north into Canada? Their are rumors at YVR B6 are interested in coming here - I would imagine JFK would be the route, which seems a bit daft with DL just having announced it.
airliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 878 posts, RR: 1 Reply 127, posted (6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4123 times:
Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 126):
How about north into Canada? Their are rumors at YVR B6 are interested in coming here - I would imagine JFK would be the route, which seems a bit daft with DL just having announced it.
Dave Barger said he plans on doing a codeshare with a Canadian carrier but not serve Canada.
kcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3628 posts, RR: 7 Reply 128, posted (6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4122 times:
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 102): It is not. They are paring their losses. Let's face it, any of these cities with 2 or 3 flights (besides the redeye cities that use an otherwise idle aircraft) are money losers.
What's your basis for saying that? Just an assumption, or perhaps some deep internal belief that an airline cant make money at a station unless they have a dozen flights there... which would be terribly wrong so I wouldn't pick that answer.
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 102): B6 is profitable and as long as they make money, they can run their airline as they see fit. Personally, I would like to see them use a model more like WN: if you can't have 10 flights a day to numerous cities in the network, why bother? (excluding international)
Because then they shut themselves off to dozens of what could be great revenue opportunities. Some of the higher yielding markets might only be able to support a few flights per day. It happens all over the country.
The sad thing about B6, IMO, is they're the only low cost carrier ( I use this term loosely ) with an aircraft they could use to serve small to mid size markets, yet they seem to have an inherent fear of smaller markets.
Flytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 524 posts, RR: 0 Reply 130, posted (6 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4101 times:
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 102): Personally, I would like to see them use a model more like WN: if you can't have 10 flights a day to numerous cities in the network, why bother? (excluding international)
Except on the view of whether to do long hauls, WN is heading more like B6. The new WN cities have a lot less in departures, e.g. PWM only with 3x daily on PWM-BWI.
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 102): You think IAD makes money with 1 LGB, 2 JFK and 3 or 4 BOS? No way
I'm puzzled. Why is B6 still at IAD? It has DCA-BOS well covered. I think sticking on BWI-BOS makes sense because eventually it will downsize from WN and FL to just WN, so it'd just be a 2 carrier race then with WN and B6, and it's a Maryland to Boston area flight.
But, IAD-BOS seems more duplicative to DCA-BOS. IAD-JFK seems like a route many would opt to drive or take the train or bus or fly a carrier with more frequencies. The LGB flight could move to BWI maybe.
Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 37): Cant wait! This WILL be a successful station right out of the gate..my prediction for DTW would be 1 daily FLL/2 daily JFK and sometime down the road 2 Daily BOS.
jetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2021 posts, RR: 1 Reply 133, posted (6 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4005 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 132): I couldn't have stated it better with the exception of the surprise. From day one JetBlue has avoided the Midwest because of some unspoken truth.
Well they have avoided it, but there has to be a certain point where they will hit a wall with the coasts. DL would probably fight in MSP, but they could probably do well to JFK/BOS. STL isn't hopping like it once was, but it could probably support a couple flights a day. The midwest might not be a market like the upper east coast but I have trouble believing airports like ABQ and CHS have more draw than some of the midwest airports. Though to be fair I don't have the numbers to back all this up.
Blue
Professor Foltz: You push down on that yolk, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yolk, the houses get bigger.
AA767LOVER From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2007, 551 posts, RR: 0 Reply 134, posted (6 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4004 times:
JetBlue should ditch JFK-PIT. PIT is a bit of a dump. Even US dropped them.
Here are cities making better sense - more international would be good . . .
SCANDALOUS - - - BUF to CUN, SJU (3X weekly is a good start); BUF-SJU needs a 320 for sure.
JFK - EYW, GUA - need a better alternative than Spirit, MAR, VLN (MAYBE better from Orlando?) - what do you build a new international terminal for?!! get more international!
From LAX:
ACA, CUN, GUA (competing with DL, TA - only with Y though), SJD - Cabo San Lucas
From MCO
BAQ, CLO, MDE, SMR (using E-190)
GUA
SJO to twice daily (if possible)
J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
deltairlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8771 posts, RR: 13 Reply 138, posted (6 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3988 times:
Quoting doulasc (Reply 131): I was just looking at JetBlue's route map.They have LAX-JFK/BOS/FLL. I wonder if JetBlue will ever add LAX-MCO or TPA. There is a market for it.
Adding LAX-MCO would make no sense for them. You've already got six flights a day on the route with four carriers (DL, UA, AA and VX). There's plenty of capacity on the route and the yields are nothing special.
TPA would make a little more sense, but there are a total of about 250 pax/day on LAX-TPA and Delta does have a nonstop already. For comparison purpose, the LAX-ORL market is about 3x the size with 750 pax/day each way. (these numbers are DOT numbers for Q2 2012).
Shamrock137 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 79 posts, RR: 0 Reply 139, posted (6 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3975 times:
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 51): I'd be willing to be MHT will get B6 service at one point or another. I'm surprised they haven't tried that yet.
I wouldn't be sure about MHT. Manchester, while its the fourth largest airport in New England, has had trouble maintaining passenger numbers. They have had a number of services cut, and routes with capacity lessened. People often compare them with PVD as they are a similar size, however PVD has a much larger surrounding population to draw from. Additionally RIAC was very aggressive in recruiting B6 for PVD while the leadership at MHT seems slightly less motivated to seek out growth. While I would love to see B6 at MHT, PVD just seems in a better position to grow at the moment.
deltairlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8771 posts, RR: 13 Reply 141, posted (6 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3992 times:
Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 140):
PIT should just be dropped entirely I would like to no how they are performing on the BOS route
And what is your rational on this one?
B6 has a lot larger share of BOS-PIT than NYC-PIT. B6 is a distant third in market share for PIT-NYC and has the lowest average fare by a long shot.
Now granted, it helps that New York has three different airports, and that B6 is not flying LGA-PIT, which hurts on the local market front. BOS they at least don't deal with market fragmentation. Now granted they aren't commanding as much of a fare premium as US is on BOS-PIT, but it should be enough to keep it around.
Also, while it's slightly longer (by about 200-250 miles each way), BOS still offers good connectivity to the Caribbean network; not as much as JFK, but still sufficient enough.
BOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1887 posts, RR: 0 Reply 142, posted (6 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3995 times:
Okay, as I said earlier, the top five markets without B6 from BOS are PHL, ATL, MSP, HOU, and DTW.
BOS-HOU is low-lying fruit that they need to grab before WN does. If ATL, MSP, or DTW happen, they will probably be from BOS only because then there would be a DL hub on one end.
BOS will have 150 flights on B6 once both sides of Terminal B are connected and UA has been moved there. And with Terminal C being connected airside to Terminal E, pax will be able to connect from an international flight to a domestic B6 flight without having to go through security again after customs!
Quoting Flytravel (Reply 130): I'm puzzled. Why is B6 still at IAD? It has DCA-BOS well covered. I think sticking on BWI-BOS makes sense because eventually it will downsize from WN and FL to just WN, so it'd just be a 2 carrier race then with WN and B6, and it's a Maryland to Boston area flight.
Washington is far and away the largest air market from the Boston area and vice versa, so I think there is an incentive to serve all three Washington airports.
ABQopsHP From United States of America, joined May 2006, 834 posts, RR: 3 Reply 143, posted (6 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3963 times:
Im going to throw this question out there, for curiosity sake. Is there a reason why, B6 and VX do not consider thru flight p2p operations? Or has WN pretty much covered all the bases? I noticed that many of the cities suggested, are subsequently knocked down, due to the likely lack of O/D to the various hubs. For instance, the chatter about ABQ. Would TUS/ABQ/JFK or FLL work or LGB/ABQ/Beyond? Just looking at that, I dont see ABQ working for them, either way, that was just an example. I saw a thread about VX and OKC. Same thing for them. I know most airlines push for N/S service, but using an A320 or 19 on a thin market wont cut it. Im unsure of the E190's stage lengths, especially during winter and strong westerly winds.
foppishbum From Taiwan, joined Mar 2006, 737 posts, RR: 0 Reply 145, posted (6 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3967 times:
Quoting isp2 (Reply 86):
In addition to the new JFK-ABQ service, B6 is ending JFK-PIT, BUR-LAS, end reducing BUR overall to a single redeye flight to JFK. JFK-LAX to increase to 6X, and BOS-PIT remains.
Where do I find the source for this news? I do JFKBUR every two weeks on the red eye. The loads seem pretty good. A lot of friends fly the morning flights and said the loads are decent, too. I wonder why B6 is cutting BUR down to one a day. When is it supposed to happen? Because I just booked my February flights two days ago and the morning flight was still available for booking.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22028 posts, RR: 51 Reply 146, posted (6 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3951 times:
Quoting foppishbum (Reply 145): Where do I find the source for this news? I do JFKBUR every two weeks on the red eye. The loads seem pretty good. A lot of friends fly the morning flights and said the loads are decent, too. I wonder why B6 is cutting BUR down to one a day. When is it supposed to happen? Because I just booked my February flights two days ago and the morning flight was still available for booking.
Airlines don't post news releases for cuts.
But to verify this, simply look online at the JetBlue website and the schedule listing shows the morning BUR-JFK flight ends Jan 7th, while BUR-LAS ends on January 2nd with the exception of a one-off run on January 6th.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
tharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1778 posts, RR: 1 Reply 147, posted (6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3925 times:
Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 142): pax will be able to connect from an international flight to a domestic B6 flight without having to go through security again after customs!
Is that really true - will there be an airside exit from customs?
deltairlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8771 posts, RR: 13 Reply 148, posted (6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3932 times:
Quoting tharanga (Reply 147):
Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 142):
pax will be able to connect from an international flight to a domestic B6 flight without having to go through security again after customs!
Is that really true - will there be an airside exit from customs?
No, it's not possible (unless arriving from a pre-clearance station, which already can arrive at a domestic gate).
All passengers must reclear security coming off a non-precleared flight though, as they would have access to their checked bags prior to going through customs.
A dedicated checkpoint to facilitate international to domestic connections could happen, but a normal screening would have to occur prior to re-entering the secure area.
allegiantflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 94 posts, RR: 0 Reply 149, posted (6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3930 times:
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 14): Not only is B6 not focused on the West Coast, they are not focused on a secondary airport as small as AZA in a place that they are not focused on in general.
Wasn't LGB small when B6 started service? Tell me if i'm wrong but isn't LGB one of Jetblue's primary focus cities a secondary airport??
BOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1887 posts, RR: 0 Reply 150, posted (6 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3919 times:
Quoting deltairlines (Reply 148): No, it's not possible (unless arriving from a pre-clearance station, which already can arrive at a domestic gate).
All passengers must reclear security coming off a non-precleared flight though, as they would have access to their checked bags prior to going through customs.
A dedicated checkpoint to facilitate international to domestic connections could happen, but a normal screening would have to occur prior to re-entering the secure area.
I thought that when the C-E connector is built you would be able to go to Terminal C without going back through security. I might be wrong about that. I am right about you being able to go from B6's gates to the international gates without going through security again, which if that's all it is, isn't unique but still an improvement.
airliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 878 posts, RR: 1 Reply 151, posted (6 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3927 times:
Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 149): Wasn't LGB small when B6 started service? Tell me if i'm wrong but isn't LGB one of Jetblue's primary focus cities a secondary airport??
Actually LGB is probably the least cared about focus city out of them all at B6 but it is a focus city.
deltairlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8771 posts, RR: 13 Reply 153, posted (6 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3945 times:
Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 150): I thought that when the C-E connector is built you would be able to go to Terminal C without going back through security. I might be wrong about that. I am right about you being able to go from B6's gates to the international gates without going through security again, which if that's all it is, isn't unique but still an improvement.
It would open up the possibility of B6 landing or departing from E and not needing to reclear security unless coming off an international inbound flight.
The benefit could be for stuff like the B6/EI partnership, where a pax arrives in BOS from a B6 city and doesn't need to reclear security to get on the EI flight (and since the EI flight is pre-cleared, the same would be true in reverse).
For a pax going say, SDQ-BOS-BUF, they would arrive at E, go through the FIS process, and then need to reclear TSA before getting on the BUF flight.
flyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 851 posts, RR: 0 Reply 154, posted (6 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3911 times:
Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 149): Wasn't LGB small when B6 started service? Tell me if i'm wrong but isn't LGB one of Jetblue's primary focus cities a secondary airport??
True, but a large part of the LGB focus is LAX flying. I'll wager B6 has more ASMs out of LAX than LGB.
Quoting avi8 (Reply 152): Does anyone know how B6 is doing in BOS-DFW? 3 daily with A320 was pretty agressive.
I believe it started as an E190 only route, so being upgauged to A320 is probably a good sign
tharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1778 posts, RR: 1 Reply 156, posted (6 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3719 times:
Quoting deltairlines (Reply 148): No, it's not possible (unless arriving from a pre-clearance station, which already can arrive at a domestic gate).
All passengers must reclear security coming off a non-precleared flight though, as they would have access to their checked bags prior to going through customs.
A dedicated checkpoint to facilitate international to domestic connections could happen, but a normal screening would have to occur prior to re-entering the secure area.
I'm trying to think of any situation in the US where you stay on the sterile side, coming out of customs. The only thing I can think of is the facilities at Terminal C/D for UA transfers at IAD. do those people stay sterile side, or do they need to be recleared?
BHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1283 posts, RR: 4 Reply 157, posted (6 months 23 hours ago) and read 3633 times:
Quoting tharanga (Reply 156): I'm trying to think of any situation in the US where you stay on the sterile side, coming out of customs. The only thing I can think of is the facilities at Terminal C/D for UA transfers at IAD. do those people stay sterile side, or do they need to be recleared?
Everyone gets recleared after Customs, bag drop, then up the escalator into C.
Does anyone no what the loads are in CLT,RDU, RIC because I have friends who flown specifically the CLT-JFK and CLT-BOS route and they said it always full . I no full planes don't mean it las profitably but they said ALL seats were full
Planes I've been on: Dash8,CRJ 200,CRJ 700,CRJ 900,ERJ 175, ERJ 190, 717,732,733,734,735,737,738.A319,A320,A321,762,763
bos2laf From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 354 posts, RR: 0 Reply 163, posted (6 months 18 hours ago) and read 3396 times:
Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 142): pax will be able to connect from an international flight to a domestic B6 flight without having to go through security again after customs!
It's meant more for connectors from C to E to make transfers to B6 partners more seamless.
Quoting avi8 (Reply 152): Does anyone know how B6 is doing in BOS-DFW? 3 daily with A320 was pretty agressive.
Quoting flyby519 (Reply 154): I believe it started as an E190 only route, so being upgauged to A320 is probably a good sign
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 158): I think PIT is a money loser on both routes much like CLT, RDU, IAD, RIC and ORD.
At least out of BOS, I would say you were wrong on all counts with the exception of maybe IAD, but I wouldn't be surprised if the QR partnership is helping sustain it.
RDU has gone up to 4-5 flights a day. Hardly something they'd do if it were unprofitable, just ask the people in IAD what happens when your station is unprofitable.
Some ORD flights have been bumped up to A320s from BOS, and some days they have 4x daily, up from 3.
RIC must be making money, as they kept BOS-RIC yet they canned JFK-RIC. Surely they would've totally pulled the plug in RIC if it were unprofitable instead of pissing away money by keeping the station open, and this is the same logic I would apply to PIT. Why keep an unprofitable station open?
B6 has not been shy about closing unprofitable routes or cities. Just look at what they've pulled the plug on in the past year or so:
BOS and JFK to IAD reduced frequency
all IAD-Florida flying went to DCA
JFK-RIC
BTV-MCO
ORD-LGB
IAD-OAK (either cut or went seasonal, I don't remember)
BOS-OAK went seasonal
BOS-SJC went seasonal
JFK-PIT
BUR-LAS in conjunction with the daytime BUR-JFK
Based on all this, I would think that if they're flying it, they're making money on it, or they'll be pulling the plug on it if they havent been able to produce results. If they're upping frequency or aircraft size, it's probably a sign that they are making money.
According to wikipedia, B6 starts getting the A320neo in 2016. That date may be wrong, but the airline certainly can't serve Hawaii with its current A320s that struggle just to make it across the country. They have plenty of refueling options for those transcons, but there isn't any place to stop for gas between California and Hawaii. Perhaps B6 will start ETOPS certification in 2014, meaning that actual service to Hawaii would begin about 2 years thereafter. I bet we'll see B6 do LGB-Hawaii at some point, but it won't be in 2014.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
I just don't see Hawaii happening unless B6 changes their focus to the West Coast. As things stand today it is all about Northeast to Florida/Caribbean markets. The only way focus would shift west is if VX ceased to exist.
bos2laf From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 354 posts, RR: 0 Reply 168, posted (6 months 2 hours ago) and read 3092 times:
Quoting flyby519 (Reply 167): I just don't see Hawaii happening unless B6 changes their focus to the West Coast. As things stand today it is all about Northeast to Florida/Caribbean markets. The only way focus would shift west is if VX ceased to exist.
I would have to agree, I dont see it either... B6 has recently shown a preference to go for markets without a lot of competition, like BOS/JFK-CHS, JFK-ABQ, JFK-AZS and when you think about the West Coast-Hawaii market and how many carriers there are, there's no way B6 would bother jumping into that tank full of sharks.
The only way I could conceive B6 jumping into LGB-Hawaii would be if they significantly built up LGB to feed the flights... Oh wait, there's no more slots.
southwest737500 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 594 posts, RR: 0 Reply 169, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2966 times:
I can see B6 add SAV,DAB
Planes I've been on: Dash8,CRJ 200,CRJ 700,CRJ 900,ERJ 175, ERJ 190, 717,732,733,734,735,737,738.A319,A320,A321,762,763
And PIT does make sense for B6?
CVG is still a major DL hub, what happened to PIT? Why did US dump them? I don't understand it myself. PIT as a city is nice and the inner city is not a dump, but the airport itself - having been de-hubbed by US, testifies that it is not a high demand city.
WN may make better sense for CVG to help drastically lower fares, then other LCCs may follow suit. WN has always been the top model, the catalyst. CVG cannot entertain B6 for sure - not right now. Didn't say never, but now.
J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
jetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2785 posts, RR: 15 Reply 172, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2447 times:
I agree. Especially considering the last two announced cities were domestic (CHS then ABQ), and CHS is a similar market to SAV (little competition to NY, sunny/south/leisure & business market).
I think this type of selective market picking -- aka skipping major markets when they cannot be served profitably (ATL, DTW, MSP, STL, MCI, CLE) - is more indicative of B6's strategy moving forward.
JetBluefan1
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
BOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1887 posts, RR: 0 Reply 173, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2297 times:
BOS-SAV has only 102 PDEW, but it has supported nonstop service before, the E190 might be good on that route.
Quoting deltairlines (Reply 153): It would open up the possibility of B6 landing or departing from E and not needing to reclear security unless coming off an international inbound flight.
The benefit could be for stuff like the B6/EI partnership, where a pax arrives in BOS from a B6 city and doesn't need to reclear security to get on the EI flight (and since the EI flight is pre-cleared, the same would be true in reverse).
For a pax going say, SDQ-BOS-BUF, they would arrive at E, go through the FIS process, and then need to reclear TSA before getting on the BUF flight.
Then hopefully pax will be able to go through security in Terminal E and then walk through the connector to Terminal C so they can avoid the sidewalk and/or the hallway.
Quoting bos2laf (Reply 163): Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 158):I think PIT is a money loser on both routes much like CLT, RDU, IAD, RIC and ORD.
At least out of BOS, I would say you were wrong on all counts with the exception of maybe IAD, but I wouldn't be surprised if the QR partnership is helping sustain it.
I agree, and will argue that BOS-IAD might be profitable just because there is such a huge demand between BOS/PVD/MHT and DCA/IAD/BWI.
Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 172): I think this type of selective market picking -- aka skipping major markets when they cannot be served profitably (ATL, DTW, MSP, STL, MCI, CLE) - is more indicative of B6's strategy moving forward.
I have a feeling that we'll be seeing a dynamic shift between the BOS hub and the JFK hub. The JFK hub will serve destinations that are either far away (West Coast, ABQ, SLC, Caribbean) or with high enough demand (ORD, Florida). The BOS hub will serve the major business markets like those cities you mentioned. B6 will have a lot easier time getting business traffic at BOS than at JFK.
jfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2648 posts, RR: 5 Reply 174, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2126 times:
I think that is correct.
Someone mentioned the small market between BOS and SAV.
No need to serve the route.
They will serve the markets that work from JFK and leave the high frequency short hauls to BOS
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