Chiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 929 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 454 times:
Air Transport World reports 4 additional orders for the A358 and upgrades earlier orders to A359.
Quote:
Libya-based Afriqiyah Airways (8U) has placed a follow-on order for four Airbus A350 XWBs and converted its earlier order for six A350-800s to the larger A350-900.
BoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1085 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (7 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 472 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 4): So that's one customer for the A350-800 having moved away. I wonder how many more will follow.
Symbolically I think that the HA A358 order is important in this respect, they went Airbus for their fleet renewal and have done very nicely with the A330 and at the same time placed A350-800 orders. The 358 is an aircraft that works really well for them as they look at opening up direct routes to Europe, it has a real logic in terms of PAX, range and seat per mile costs if Airbus get them to convert to the A359 I will begin to believe that the -800 is dead.
Bthebest From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 436 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (7 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 474 times:
As I understand, Afriqiyah will be merging with Libyan Airlines next year - who also have 4 A358 orders. Will these be carried over or just cancelled in favour of the 4 A359s just ordered? Libyan's order is still on the Airbus books.
Polot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 1589 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (7 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 474 times:
Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 5): Symbolically I think that the HA A358 order is important in this respect, they went Airbus for their fleet renewal and have done very nicely with the A330 and at the same time placed A350-800 orders. The 358 is an aircraft that works really well for them as they look at opening up direct routes to Europe, it has a real logic in terms of PAX, range and seat per mile costs if Airbus get them to convert to the A359 I will begin to believe that the -800 is dead.
I disagree. I think if Airbus can convince US and QR to convert to the A359 than the A358 is dead.
As of now there are 112 A358 orders (which includes KF's order of 5 which, let's be honest, is as good as dead), hasn't had a new customer since July 2008, and nobody apparently wants it before 2016. The clock is ticking on this model.
EPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 3650 posts, RR: 36 Reply 8, posted (7 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 471 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 3): So that's one customer for the A350-800 having moved away. I wonder how many more will follow.
Yes it is. But with 6 upgrades and 4 new orders for the A350-XWB program Airbus will not have any problem with this development. Congrats to all parties involved for securing this deal.
frigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1242 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (7 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 472 times:
Quoting Polot (Reply 7): Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 5): Symbolically I think that the HA A358 order is important in this respect, they went Airbus for their fleet renewal and have done very nicely with the A330 and at the same time placed A350-800 orders. The 358 is an aircraft that works really well for them as they look at opening up direct routes to Europe, it has a real logic in terms of PAX, range and seat per mile costs if Airbus get them to convert to the A359 I will begin to believe that the -800 is dead.
I disagree. I think if Airbus can convince US and QR to convert to the A359 than the A358 is dead.
There were rumors that one customer threatens to cancel its entire A350 order if Airbus drops the A358. It sounds very much like a QR (AAB) action, especially since they were very pleased with the last change, adding extra range. However, I feel it could be US, the A359 might be far too much plane and perhaps the 787 would actually be a better fit....
JerseyFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 475 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (7 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 468 times:
Taken on its own we should not read too much into this concerning the death of the A358.
Afriqah has merely revised its fleet plan to recognise that more people will want to visit Libya post-Gadaffi, and so it will need more, bigger, aircratft.
scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3266 posts, RR: 10 Reply 12, posted (7 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 468 times:
Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 11): Taken on its own we should not read too much into this concerning the death of the A358.
Afriqah has merely revised its fleet plan to recognise that more people will want to visit Libya post-Gadaffi, and so it will need more, bigger, aircratft.
Exactly, a change in the model mix and a top-up is good going considering that there's been a revolution between these orders being placed and now!
BommerJan From Spain, joined Dec 2005, 54 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 466 times:
interesting.... I saw an Afriquiyah A340 parked at Perpignan when I drove from my home town of BCN to Cologne past the airport 10 days ago. Does anyone know what is going to happen to it? Also saw an ex-Spanair a320 and a few more planes which I could not identify in the short time frame.
parapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1318 posts, RR: 10 Reply 14, posted (7 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 466 times:
Long range "shrinks" don't work do they? The 747 LR shrink did not, not did the 345 or indeed the 772LR. There may be others too.Whilst a different manrket the 318 and 736 proved uneconomic too.It's (very) tricky for them.A plane that is more economic than the 332 but less than the 788/9 ( it appears at present - although the -9 has yet to fly).
One might ask - why did they offer an aircraft that is less economic than it's nearest compeditor (the 787) unless they felt that the additional range/load was of major impotance to enough potental customers.
As others have said. It appears that the long , thin, point to point theory is more of a mirage.(or a small niche market)
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26925 posts, RR: 83 Reply 17, posted (7 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 466 times:
Quoting parapente (Reply 14): One might ask - why did they offer an aircraft that is less economic than it's nearest compeditor (the 787) unless they felt that the additional range/load was of major impotance to enough potential customers.
I think the extra payload/range is Airbus trying to make the best of the situation they find themselves in with that model.
I am of the opinion that the A350-800 will need to have appreciably lower trip costs compared to the A350-900 in order for it to sell.
redflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4181 posts, RR: 30 Reply 18, posted (7 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 457 times:
Quoting fcogafa (Reply 5): Why does Afriqiyah want 10 A350s? Seems a bit over the top for an airline who have so far only operated small numbers of widebodies.
With the former ruler tossed into the ash heap of history, the economy should be opening up driving more growth.
astuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9254 posts, RR: 96 Reply 19, posted (7 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 459 times:
Quoting parapente (Reply 14): As others have said. It appears that the long , thin, point to point theory is more of a mirage.(or a small niche market)
You mean the one we were told was the entire raison d'etre for the 787, and the death knell for the A380?
RubberJungle From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2010, 300 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (7 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 457 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 3): So that's one customer for the A350-800 having moved away.
Several former A350-800 customers have already switched. Nearly 40% of -800 orders have vanished in the last three years as customers have migrated upwards.
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