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Indiana Aviation: Part 8  
User currently offlineA340Spotter From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1981 posts, RR: 24
Posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 13871 times:

As Part 7 has been archived, starting up Part 8...

For those that are interested, the long term resident Hellas Jet A320 has begun to be broken up at GYY. The engines are removed as are other components.

Are there any readers that are down at Columbus/BAK? Wondering if the Transair Hawaii 737-200C is still there and what sort of shape is it in?

Regards,
JSD (near VPZ)


"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
238 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 13880 times:
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SBN named a new Marketing Director.


http://www.wsbt.com/business/sbt-air...-director-20121121,0,3090638.story


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 13870 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 1):

SBN named a new Marketing Director.
FWA is also searching for a new marketing/air service director after Dave Young left for RDU at the end of August. The marketing/air service development post at FWA is a joint venture with the local Chamber of Commerce, which is also leading the search.

In other FWA news, Eagle will be going from 3 FWA-ORD flights per day to 4 in April (DFW remains at 2x daily). I also wouldn't be surprised to see DL upgrade FWA-ATL (and by extension, SBN-ATL) to at least 70-seaters in the new year, as DL has stated that 50-seat RJ routes between 450 and 750 miles like FWA/SBN-ATL will be the first to get upgauged. It seems like G4's FWA-PGD route is doing well, too, as fares (and probably yields) for FWA-PGD seem to be higher than G4's other PGD routes.

Also, the Aviation Association of Indiana released their economic impact study: http://www.aviationindiana.org/image...nomic%20impact%20study%20final.pdf

Not surprisingly, IND had the biggest economic impact at $4.5 billion (thanks, FedEx). SBN was second at $1.7 billion, FWA was third at $975 million, and EVV came in fourth at $945 million. Though GYY's impact was only $72 million, I expect that to grow substantially as the runway extension is completed and air service expands at GYY. The highest economic impact of an airport without commercial air service was Warsaw Municipal (ASW) at $858 million, just $117 million shy of nearby FWA.

Lastly, with all this talk about G4 going international, is there a reason why SBN didn't add an FIS facility in their new concourse? And could one be added in the future? I remember that SBN was originally talking about putting one in for G4 when it was in the planning stages. Per the 2012 FWA master plan, I know that an FIS should be added at FWA when the next terminal renovation takes place.

[Edited 2012-11-21 16:41:34]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 13847 times:
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And FIS facility could be added in the future at SBN but I do not know where. The old C holding room maybe but how do you get people off the plane in a sterile jetway area and not interfere with the ground vehicle movement between the new concourse and the main building. How do you also put in separate baggage carousel for the FIS. The only way to do this right is to build another extension of the new concourse with the same look on the west side of the old A holding room and have a separate baggage area and FIS facility. In building an extension of the concourse on the west side of the old holding room A this section can also be elevated 1/2 floor up like the new building. You would then also glass enclose the loading bridge area and be able to direct the passengers into the FIS and baggage claim area. This is similar to the old sterile areas to the old FIS at places like DFW and IAH. Leaving the area through an exit doors on the south side passengers would then exit into the present terminal via a corridor to the area outside of security an into the main building.

Putting a FIS on the west side you also run into a dilemma of working around the bus terminal.

They are also landlocked by the big hanger on the east side to build an FIS extension off the old C holding room. It's just a real dilemma on how to add an FIS. The easiest thing of all is to have US Customs Pre-clearance in Mexico which would negate the need for an FIS at SBN.

On a side note what would be nice is also a US Customs Pre-clearance at Billy Bishop Airport in Toronto which would make it easy on Porter to fly to SBN or FWA


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 13845 times:
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Quoting FWAERJ
"I also wouldn't be surprised to see DL upgrade FWA-ATL (and by extension, SBN-ATL) to at least 70-seaters in the new year, as DL has stated that 50-seat RJ routes between 450 and 750 miles like FWA/SBN-ATL will be the first to get upgauged."

I talked to one of the DGS employees at SBN last Saturday after the ND-Wake Forrest game and he doesn't think Delta mainline (B717) would return to SBN except during certain ND home game weekends because SBN was originally a Delta Connection city with Comair even though they did have 737's going to CVG. In other words he said SBN is not a mainline city for Delta. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to see mostly all flying at SBN go to CR7/CR9 in the near future though.

Most of these employees don't know what the mainline carriers plans are anyway so it's all a wash.

In other SBN news, their prime focus now is to get N/S service to the New York area. Secondary to this is service to DFW.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13834 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 4):
SBN was originally a Delta Connection city with Comair even though they did have 737's going to CVG.

SBN saw MD-88s to ATL as well. I remember going to SBN pre-9/11 and seeing an MD-88 in the Ron Allen livery headed to ATL from the old A holdroom.

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 4):
In other SBN news, their prime focus now is to get N/S service to the New York area. Secondary to this is service to DFW.

Makes sense, as I remember reading before F9 arrived that SBN's top three markets without nonstop service (per management) were DFW, LGA, and DEN. DFW would have to be on AA (Eagle), but the question is if would cannibalize FWA-DFW (which sees a lot of SBN-area pax). As for LGA, it would most likely be a DL route.

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 3):
And FIS facility could be added in the future at SBN but I do not know where. The old C holding room maybe but how do you get people off the plane in a sterile jetway area and not interfere with the ground vehicle movement between the new concourse and the main building. How do you also put in separate baggage carousel for the FIS. The only way to do this right is to build another extension of the new concourse with the same look on the west side of the old A holding room and have a separate baggage area and FIS facility. In building an extension of the concourse on the west side of the old holding room A this section can also be elevated 1/2 floor up like the new building. You would then also glass enclose the loading bridge area and be able to direct the passengers into the FIS and baggage claim area. This is similar to the old sterile areas to the old FIS at places like DFW and IAH. Leaving the area through an exit doors on the south side passengers would then exit into the present terminal via a corridor to the area outside of security an into the main building.

Putting a FIS on the west side you also run into a dilemma of working around the bus terminal.

They are also landlocked by the big hanger on the east side to build an FIS extension off the old C holding room. It's just a real dilemma on how to add an FIS. The easiest thing of all is to have US Customs Pre-clearance in Mexico which would negate the need for an FIS at SBN.

Sounds like it would be a challenge to add an FIS at SBN... they should have baked one into the new terminal as originally planned. They knew for years that G4 was eventually going to go international, and G4 is huge at SBN, so it baffles me why they didn't plan ahead for what is now a major player at SBN.

I would like to see US CBP preclearance at CUN and other Mexican airports, but with the Mexican drug wars, I don't see it happening even at tourist-area Mexican airports. As such, once the terminal expansion is finished in a few years, I see G4 focusing their northern Indiana Mexican flights at FWA.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 13815 times:
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It would be a challenge adding an FIS at SBN but not impossible. DFW flights may not necessarily be on Eagle. Flights to EWR on UA would also be a possibility.

User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13799 times:
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Here is an Aerial view of the new concourse at SBN. My take on how to ad an FIS is that there is plenty of room on the west side of the building. You take down the old A3 loading bridge (F9 gate) in left top of the picture and move it to A4 next door. You also demolish the vestibule extension where the A2 bridge was. You then build an extension of the new concourse on the west end but build it 3/4 up instead of 1/2 to accommodate the MD80 B757 A319 type acft. You can build it long enough to install 3 jetways. You build an inside jetway area sterile area to direct passengers to US Customs. This area can also be open when operating domestic flights. Baggage will be dropped off in an FIS dedicated baggage belt at the west side of this terminal extension. Double frosted glass doors as per other FIS facilities would be on the south end of the building extension which would lead to a corridor into the area of the new tunnel in the left hand side of the picture. FIS problem solved. The cost probably about 9 million including refurbished jetways etc. It would also take close to a year to build. It would also have the same special plastic roof as the new terminal does etc.
Aerial view of SBN Concourse A showing jetbridge layout


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13759 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 6):
DFW flights may not necessarily be on Eagle.

What would be the other options? Aside from NK (which I think is a VERY long shot), I can't think of any.

Even then, part of the draw of DFW is the extremely strong AA hub connections. If it were anyone but AA/Eagle, one couldn't tap into these connections. Even Eagle's FWA-DFW, which is one of the two strongest O&D legacy routes from FWA (the other being DL to ATL), has a lot of connecting traffic - it wouldn't work without connections, and neither would SBN.

[Edited 2012-11-22 06:36:35]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineboilerla From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 369 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 13739 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 8):
Even then, part of the draw of DFW is the extremely strong AA hub connections. If it were anyone but AA/Eagle, one couldn't tap into these connections. Even Eagle's FWA-DFW, which is one of the two strongest O&D legacy routes from FWA (the other being DL to ATL), has a lot of connecting traffic - it wouldn't work without connections, and neither would SBN.

Which is the opposite problem that SBN-EWR would have on UA. It'd primarily be O&D as I doubt there are that many SBN passengers connecting on TATL on a daily basis. UA probably wants their EWR slots for high margin TATL and its connecting flows, not on something that would be low-yielding except for some ND home weekends.

They'd have better luck trying to get SBN-IAD or SBN-IAH where slots aren't at a premium and there are better chances for connecting flows.


User currently offlineatlengineer From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13721 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 1):
The highest economic impact of an airport without commercial air service was Warsaw Municipal (ASW) at $858 million, just $117 million shy of nearby FWA.

The reason that Warsaw is that high is that Warsaw has 3 of the world's 5 largest orthopedic manufactures based there as well as the world headquarters of Daylight Screen Company.

ATLengineer


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13711 times:

Quoting atlengineer (Reply 10):
The reason that Warsaw is that high is that Warsaw has 3 of the world's 5 largest orthopedic manufactures based there as well as the world headquarters of Daylight Screen Company.

Correct, which leads to a megaton of orthopedic and orthopedic supplier bizjets. IIRC, ASW is the busiest airport in Indiana for bizjets, and commercial traffic from Warsaw is pretty evenly split between FWA and SBN.

In addition to orthopedic makers and Da-Lite, Warsaw is also home to Lakeland Financial/Lake City Bank, one of the largest Indiana-based banks (but still behind SBN-based 1st Source and EVV-based Old National). Lake City is #1 in Warsaw by far, #2 in Elkhart/Goshen, #4 in FWA, and #8 in SBN (plus they recently expanded into Indianapolis). Lake City even wrote a supporting letter for the SBN SCASD application that led to F9 SBN-DEN.

Quoting boilerla (Reply 9):
UA probably wants their EWR slots for high margin TATL and its connecting flows, not on something that would be low-yielding except for some ND home weekends.

They'd have better luck trying to get SBN-IAD or SBN-IAH where slots aren't at a premium and there are better chances for connecting flows.

Which is why, IMO, FWA-EWR would work better than SBN-EWR. Less O&D, more international/TATL connecting flows. If SBN-NYC is mostly O&D, they would be far better served with DL SBN-LGA.

Anyway, one of my friends is predicting Armageddon for a lot of the commercial service at smaller airports in Indiana and across the nation with the ATP rule coming into effect shortly. Personally, I don't think there will be much impact at FWA or SBN (not sure about EVV), as the airlines have had three years to prepare for this and (at least at FWA) almost all of the routes are high-yield/high-load. If airlines have to cut because of the ATP rule, they will cut the weak routes first. Your thoughts?



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 13663 times:
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Almost all of the regional airlines serving SBN and FWA are in compliance with the ATP rule. So no pilot Armageddon affecting SBN or FWA. I also have friends that fly for regionals and most of them have a lot of hours.

As to SBN-DFW routes they are talking to NK besides AA/American Eagle. . They have been also working on UA for SBN-IAH service for connections to Mexico and Central America. The real United long time ago had a SBN-DCA flight when John Brademas was the 3rd District Congressmen. Nonetheless they are still working with UA and DL for New York Service but the real bite they have on getting this service if they could get the slots is from SY.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13619 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 12):
As to SBN-DFW routes they are talking to NK besides AA/American Eagle. . They have been also working on UA for SBN-IAH service for connections to Mexico and Central America.

I figured the other option was NK, but I still don't think SBN-DFW would work without AA's connections. SBN-IAH would be a good alternative, but UA's "punishment" to Houston by flight cutbacks for allowing WN int'l ops at HOU means that this is less likely than before.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinetan flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1915 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13611 times:

I sure would like to see Eagle upgauge the FWA-DFW flights, or at least 1 of them and add a third like they have had a time or two in the schedule.

Everytime I am one one, they are 100 full.(which is good..I just think they are leaving business on the table. A CR7 would make the trip to DFW a bit more pleasant and encourage more customers to choose that over an ORD connection.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 13574 times:

Quoting tan flyr (Reply 14):
I sure would like to see Eagle upgauge the FWA-DFW flights, or at least 1 of them and add a third like they have had a time or two in the schedule.

As I have said before, there is no Eagle CR7 pilot base at DFW, plus the LAX base where the DFW CR7s come from is closing. Unless they plan on reopening the DFW CR7 base with the LAX base closure, the plane would have to be rotated in from another base like ORD. This may be a challenge as the FWA-DFW flights are timed for international connections at DFW.

I could see FWA-DFW among the first in line for larger aircraft if Eagle reopens the DFW CR7 base or if Eagle carriers get more 70-seaters. That said, with Eagle's traffic growth at FWA this year, I was surprised to see the 3rd FWA-DFW not return this winter (though as I mentioned earlier, the 4th FWA-ORD will return in April).



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 13574 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 7):
The cost probably about 9 million including refurbished jetways etc. It would also take close to a year to build. It would also have the same special plastic roof as the new terminal does etc.

I think Indiana taxpayers are tired of wasting money on airports, Hundreds of millions of Indiana tax dollars have been wasted on the United IND MX base, with tools!!!!, IND Midfield terminal (nice but no extra gates)
paying Cape air to fly from FWA/SBN to IND for no reason..

Fixing up GYY is the only thing Indiana should be spending money on right now..becase that will bring in more $$ for the state in the long run...


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13558 times:

Quoting COSPN (Reply 16):
paying Cape air to fly from FWA/SBN to IND for no reason..

Cape Air never flew FWA-IND, just SBN/EVV-IND (though there was almost GYY-IND service as well). FWA was invited to join in the Cape Air services, but Dave Young (FWA's ASD at the time) declined. Mr. Young did have an interest in FWA-EVV, but the powers that be also wanted FWA-IND flights if FWA were to sign on. Mr. Young's reasoning for not wanting FWA-IND was that IND is a much easier drive from FWA (2.5 hours and 100% interstate) than it is from SBN or EVV, which is also a reason why FWA leaks far more passengers to IND than SBN or EVV do.

However, TZ/C8 did briefly fly FWA-IND (which was switched from the initial FWA-MDW) to connect to the TZ focus city at IND. The C8 service was not linked in any way to the Cape Air service, and was bound to the same SCASD terms as the C8 MDW service. It was discontinued when C8 suspended operations and TZ dramatically cut IND.

Quoting COSPN (Reply 16):
Hundreds of millions of Indiana tax dollars have been wasted on the IND Midfield terminal (nice but no extra gates)

No tax dollars are used to fund IND or the Indianapolis Airport Authority as a whole, nor were any used in the construction of the new IND terminal. SBN, FWA, and EVV do use some tax dollars for operation, and in the case of FWA, most of the tax dollars are used to pay off the remaining Kitty Hawk hub debt.

And though the new IND terminal is similar in gate count to the old terminal (40 vs. 38 or so), there is room to build at least ten additional gates to the existing concourses should the need arise. The old terminal had zero room for new gates.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 13512 times:
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Qouting FWAERJ

"I figured the other option was NK, but I still don't think SBN-DFW would work without AA's connections. SBN-IAH would be a good alternative, but UA's "punishment" to Houston by flight cutbacks for allowing WN int'l ops at HOU means that this is less likely than before."


You know they can bring Eagle back to SBN for svc SBN-ORD and have American (MD83's) fly SBN-DFW one or two R/T's a day like they were going to originally when Eagle was in SBN.


SBN seems to like LCC's. UA's sort of punishment to Houston has nothing to do with SBN getting service to IAH after all they still fly from GRR-IAH.


User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 13489 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 17):

"No tax dollars are used to fund IND or the Indianapolis Airport Authority as a whole, nor were any used in the construction of the new IND terminal. SBN, FWA, and EVV do use some tax dollars for operation, and in the case of FWA, most of the tax dollars are used to pay off the remaining Kitty Hawk hub debt."

How much did the IMC (United 737 maintenance center) cost the Indiana tax payers ?? not just the money wasted on the tools and building, but when the mechanics were laid off it cost millions more in unemployment payments..

I would estimate about 1% of these MX workers were native Hoosiers, so it was just a huge waste..

Indiana needs to be more careful with their money BAA made millions for doing nothing at IND


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 13435 times:
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A link to an article about Indiana aviation.

http://www.aviationpros.com/news/108...ts-generate-jobs-serve-communities


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 13423 times:

Quoting COSPN (Reply 19):
BAA made millions for doing nothing at IND

When it came to luring new airlines and air service to IND, BAA Indianapolis did a far better job than the Indianapolis Airport Authority is doing today. If BAA didn't pack up and leave IND like they did, IND probably still would have had decent service levels to the West Coast.

And did you know that the new IND terminal was basically built to BAA's specifications?



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 21 hours ago) and read 13386 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 18):
You know they can bring Eagle back to SBN for svc SBN-ORD and have American (MD83's) fly SBN-DFW one or two R/T's a day like they were going to originally when Eagle was in SBN.

I don't think it would be wise to start SBN-DFW om the Mad Dog, as FWA-DFW (from an airport similar in size and pax count to SBN) can only support 2 or 3 ERJ-145s per day (though I could see it going to 2 CRJ-700s per day). Keep in mind that Eagle's last stint at SBN was pre-9/11 (not counting AmericanConnection to STL that ran from 2001-03), and times have changed a lot since then.

And you're right that Eagle could do SBN-ORD either alone or in addition to DFW. However, SBN-ORD is served by about the same number of seats per day on UA as FWA-ORD is on UA and Eagle combined, which brings the risk of market oversaturation.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinejetskipper From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 20 hours ago) and read 13380 times:

Some quick spotters info, ND chartered a DL 757-200 for their trip between SBN and LAX. The return flight should arrive early Sunday.

User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 17 hours ago) and read 13363 times:

Millions spent for a new airport in IND and the covered jet terminal at TYQ (Zionsville) , the rich cant get wet, I guess, but they tore down the bus station so the "poor" changing buses in Indy ,have to use crummy old toilets in the old Union Station basement, great image of Indianapolis 100 year old bathroom with no lock on the stalls...really sad...

User currently offlinetan flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1915 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 11 months 16 hours ago) and read 13409 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 22):
And you're right that Eagle could do SBN-ORD either alone or in addition to DFW. However, SBN-ORD is served by about the same number of seats per day on UA as FWA-ORD is on UA and Eagle combined, which brings the risk of market oversaturation.

Just thinking out loud here..is there a probability of any of the "eagle" branded carriers obtaining and thus using a few Q 400 to use on such short feeders to ORD as SBN/ MKE/ MSN, even FWA and PIA. Seems like for those 160/175 mile or less medium markets a more fuel efficient plane would make sense as soon as possible.. Thoughts? Observations? Inside info?? LOL! Thanks!


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 26, posted (1 year 11 months 16 hours ago) and read 13419 times:

Quoting tan flyr (Reply 25):
Just thinking out loud here..is there a probability of any of the "eagle" branded carriers obtaining and thus using a few Q 400 to use on such short feeders to ORD as SBN/ MKE/ MSN, even FWA and PIA.

I remember reading on another thread here that AA was kicking the tires on some Q400s at Colgan back when they were around.

I don't know the specifics of a potential AA pilot contract and scope clause, but I do think that we could see large turboprops (again) in Eagle's future. Still, I think we'll see them from MIA first.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (1 year 11 months 14 hours ago) and read 13493 times:
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American was going to do two maddog flights a day top DFW when Eagle served SBN but they could never agree on ground servicing rates for the aircraft with eagle.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 28, posted (1 year 11 months 12 hours ago) and read 13471 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 27):
American was going to do two maddog flights a day top DFW when Eagle served SBN but they could never agree on ground servicing rates for the aircraft with eagle.

Eagle ended SBN service late in 2000, so this had to be from 2000 or prior to then, which was also before 9/11. After the TWA merger, there was AmericanConnection service on SBN-STL between 2001 and 2003 (FWA-STL was dropped at the same time), but Eagle service from SBN-ORD never returned.

Notably, Eagle started FWA-DFW in 2000 at around the same time they ended SBN-ORD. And FWA-DFW has done very well for Eagle.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 29, posted (1 year 11 months 11 hours ago) and read 13450 times:
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Quoting FWAERJ "Eagle ended SBN service late in 2000, so this had to be from 2000 or prior to then, which was also before 9/11. After the TWA merger, there was AmericanConnection service on SBN-STL between 2001 and 2003 (FWA-STL was dropped at the same time), but Eagle service from SBN-ORD never returned."

SBN-ORD never returned because Eagle could not compete against ATA's low fares between SBN and MDW.

I think it was prior to 2000 as AA still had the Fokker 100's at the time. Before the TWA merger they had SBN-STL service on Transtates. One of my friends was a Jetstream41 Captain for them and he now flies for a major carrier.

SBN has got a very aggressive marketing team in place and I do look for new service announcements in the future. There are some empty airline counters behind temporary walls at SBN and with gate A8 being open plus the capability to reinstall the jetways on A2 and A4 anything is possible.

F9 also has some more rabbits in their hat for SBN.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 30, posted (1 year 11 months 1 hour ago) and read 13415 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 29):
F9 also has some more rabbits in their hat for SBN.

Maybe MCO to start? Yes, I know that G4 already serves SBN-SFB, but F9 has been on a real MCO kick as of lately.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 31, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 13381 times:
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"Quoting FWAERJ
"
Maybe MCO to start? Yes, I know that G4 already serves SBN-SFB, but F9 has been on a real MCO kick as of lately."

Hey don't give to much away. I think they will look at it since it's a different airport than SFB and If they do it it will be seasonal and out an backs like Allegiant and on different days than Allegiant.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 32, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 13368 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 31):
Hey don't give to much away.

I don't have any contacts at either SBN or F9, so I was just guessing the obvious.  



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 33, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13348 times:
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I do think SBN-MCO is being looked at though. The real reason I believe that SBN was able to get F9 in beside the grant and all the letter writing by business was that Elizabeth had contacts at F9 and was able to put together a persuasive case along with the business and educational community of SBN.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 34, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 13329 times:

Any news regarding EVV besides the new jetways?

Since G4 operates from nearby Owensboro (OWB) across the state line plus the fact that OWB just renovated their terminal for them, I don't think G4 will move. But I could see F9 launching EVV-MCO and maybe EVV-DEN.

EVV management might need to act fast: the first phase of I-69 to IND just opened, which cuts travel time between Evansville and IND by 45 minutes to an hour over the old US 41/I-70 combination. And as a result, I could see more EVV leakage going to IND instead of the usual SDF.

[Edited 2012-11-25 15:22:17]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinecapitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13314 times:

Quoting boilerla (Reply 9):
They'd have better luck trying to get SBN-IAD or SBN-IAH where slots aren't at a premium and there are better chances for connecting flows.

Agreed. UA is making IAD the primary East Coast hub, saving valuable slots at EWR for O&D and high yielding routes. Any connections will be only to maximize these routes.

Connecting through IAD would work fine plus I am sure there is decent government related O&D (not to mention tourists) who would love a non stop to DC. Houston seems to be the wrong direction for these connections.

I have always wondered in fact who flies to Atlanta? Are these folks going on to Florida, Latin America, etc? Or are they coming back north to East Coast destinations (LGA, DCA, BOS, etc)? I have always thought ATL was out of the way to get anywhere other than the south. Any insight on where they are going?


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 36, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13297 times:
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SBN I'm sure has O/D traffic to the DC area being it Government or Notre Dame University traffic. A SBN-IAH connection would be of use for the Hispanic population in SBN to connect to Mexico and Central and South America. SBN figures also in lieu of getting American Eagle back for service to DFW that SBN-IAH on United Express would be better and cheaper in the long run.

I have flown to SBN on Delta from DFW thru ATL several times now because it is very reliable and both times it has been cheaper than flying to MDW from DAL. The one SBN is definitely working on is with Delta to fly from SBN-LGA. There are a lot of connecting passengers going thru DTW to get to the New York area.

As far as SBN-DTW goes, it seems in the summer that there is a lot of SBN-DTW connecting traffic going to Europe on Delta's DTW-AMS. At least half the RJ flight I was on were making connections to AMS.


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 37, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13295 times:
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SBN has recently rebuilt the ramp under Gate A5 with reinforced concrete because the asphalt was melting this summer. The asphalt was giving way under the jetway etc at A5. They are eventually going to rebuild the whole ramp in the new concourse area. Delta can now park any of their RJ's or their DC9/MD80 aircraft on the A5 pad. Eventually they can reinstall jetways at A4 and A2 in the old building.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 38, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13293 times:

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 35):
Connecting through IAD would work fine plus I am sure there is decent government related O&D (not to mention tourists) who would love a non stop to DC.

As much as I could see SBN-IAD, I could see FWA-IAD first for three reasons:

1) there is very heavy traffic (much of it government and defense) between FWA and DC, moreso than even NYC
2) most of that traffic goes to IAD because the FWA-area business is in the IAD area
3) the Fort Wayne Chamber of Commerce sent out a survey to businesses earlier this year to gauge interest in nonstop FWA-IAD



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinecsturdiv From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 1491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 39, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 13260 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 34):
EVV management might need to act fast: the first phase of I-69 to IND just opened, which cuts travel time between Evansville and IND by 45 minutes to an hour over the old US 41/I-70 combination. And as a result, I could see more EVV leakage going to IND instead of the usual SDF.

I just drove it today on my way home to the Chicago area after visiting family in southern Indiana. It might be a while until the next phase is open and what is open now doesn't get you close to Indianapolis yet. True that the open portion of I69 and it's 70mph speed limit is nice, but once you get to the end and hop on the single lane county/state highways the rest of the way to Indy to pick up I465, it is slow going. I took I465 west which took me past IND and noticed several buildings with the Comlux logo on it. Will their current fleet of Airbus ACJ's and other bizjets be making appearances there? Or is that just going to be used for cabin fits as their press release states.



An American expat living and working in Australia
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 40, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 13202 times:

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 39):
I just drove it today on my way home to the Chicago area after visiting family in southern Indiana. It might be a while until the next phase is open and what is open now doesn't get you close to Indianapolis yet. True that the open portion of I69 and it's 70mph speed limit is nice, but once you get to the end and hop on the single lane county/state highways the rest of the way to Indy to pick up I465, it is slow going.

Good trip report - I wasn't expecting one this soon.

Once I-69 gets up to Bloomington shortly, connecting to a 4-lane road (that will eventually be converted into part of I-69), the trip between Evansville and IND will be even faster. And that is when EVV management will need to be aware of possible traffic and leakage shifts.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 41, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 12957 times:

FWA's October numbers are in. Traffic is up 6.99% in October (and 2.39% year-to-date), with much of that growth coming from G4's FWA-PGD service (G4 boardings alone were up 46%). DL also posted a bit of a rebound from their earlier slump with a 10.32% increase.

YTD market share at FWA for 2012:
DL 42.54%
AA (Eagle) 27.91%
G4 16.71%
UA 12.25%
Charters 0.58%

Source (updated monthly): http://www.fwairport.com/images/gallery/AirlineActivitySummary1.pdf

Does anyone at SBN have any insight to how G4's SBN-PGD is doing? I know that FWA-PGD commands a fare premium over the other G4 PGD routes, likely due to the many FWA locals that vacation in Fort Myers.

A little story about FWA-PGD: FWA's former ASD once told me back in the days of an independent FL (yes, FWA was talking to them about service) that FL told him that 10% of their IND-RSW pax came from the FWA catchment area. As a result, RSW/PGD was one of the most-requested destinations from FWA, with people wishing for the city on FWA's Facebook page and in other places. Obviously, bringing these pax back to FWA was a top goal for him, and after WN and FL merged and the collapse of Direct Air (he was leery of public charters from the start), he used these FL IND-RSW numbers to get G4 to launch FWA-PGD. (Interestingly, it was this ASD's last new city for FWA before he left for a similar position at RDU.)



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 42, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12802 times:

http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/la...re-federal-funds-looking-good.html

GYY should hear soon about $24 million in funding from the FAA to fund certain parts of GYY's expansion. Former IND head and GYY consultant John Clark seems to be confident that they will get it, though.

While on the subject of GYY, are G4's loads looking good? And could other cities be added in the near future? LAS and AZA can't and won't be added until the expansion is complete; could GYY-PIE and/or PGD work in the near term?

[Edited 2012-12-15 16:18:38]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineBravoGolf From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 539 posts, RR: 1
Reply 43, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 12707 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 42):
G4's loads looking good?
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 42):
could GYY-PIE and/or PGD work in the near term?

G4 loads are good. Now over 10K pax enplaned. PIE worked about 10 years ago with Southeast Airline.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 44, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12718 times:

Quoting BravoGolf (Reply 43):
PIE worked about 10 years ago with Southeast Airline.

You've got a good point on GYY-PIE... and knowing Allegiant's typical city patterns, I personally think that route would be next in line before GYY-PGD.

I wonder if MYR would work on a seasonal basis (a la FWA-MYR) as well, as Hooters Air flew GYY-MYR successfully.

Quoting BravoGolf (Reply 43):
G4 loads are good. Now over 10K pax enplaned.

Which, as we all know, qualifies GYY for more FAA funding. And I expect these pax numbers to grow.

[Edited 2012-12-16 16:54:50]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 45, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 12609 times:

FWA's November board meeting minutes were released today (the December meeting was today, and FWA always releases their minutes one meeting after the actual meeting took place).

The minutes had some interesting tidbits:
-DL's FWA-MSP is seasonal once again; it ended in late November and will resume on 3/3/13 (however, DL suspends much of its flying in January and February)
-All-airline LFs for October at FWA were 85%, which goes well with the 6.99% year-over-year increase for October (as stated earlier, much of it has to do with G4 launching FWA-PGD)
-Air cargo (FedEx and UPS) at FWA is up 6.5% YTD
-Professional services agreements with the Economic Development Alliance (airport land and property development) and Chamber of Commerce (air service development) were renewed; the Alliance work will shift somewhat now that the old Kitty Hawk hub has been completely reused (which was a top priority)

Source: http://www.fwairport.com/images/gallery/MINUTES.11.19.12.pdf

November pax numbers for FWA are not up yet, but numbers for the previous month are typically posted the day after the month's board meeting (i.e. November numbers in December)



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39905 posts, RR: 75
Reply 46, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 12609 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 40):
Once I-69 gets up to Bloomington shortly, connecting to a 4-lane road (that will eventually be converted into part of I-69), the trip between Evansville and IND will be even faster.

For many years, I've always wondered when they would ever complete I-69 thus completing the final cross in the crossroads state.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 44):
Which, as we all know, qualifies GYY for more FAA funding. And I expect these pax numbers to grow.

I hope so. I'd like to see GYY as a larger player in the passenger airline service.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 47, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks ago) and read 12376 times:

FWA's November stats are in:

-3.85% increase versus November 2011
-2.56% increase year-to-date versus 2011
-All-airline load factors are 82% (they have often been in the 80% range this year... I wonder if this means more flights headed our way in 2013)
-Year-to-date FWA pax counts are almost at levels last seen in 2008, when the recession started to hit
-G4 pax boardings were up almost 42% year-over-year (thanks to the successful launch of FWA-PGD)
-DL was up 8.27% (between that and 9E getting the CR9s, a good sign for larger planes next year)
-Eagle was down 11.15% year-over-year (probably due to one fewer DFW flight this fall than last), and UA was down 3.6%
-Year-to-date FWA market share: DL leads at 42.83%, Eagle is next at 27.75%, G4 is at 16.65%, UA is at 12.16%, and charters make up the rest (0.6%)
-Cargo (FedEx and UPS) is up 9.77% (probably a big reason why FedEx is now sending the 757 to FWA in addition to UPS)

Source: http://www.fwairport.com/images/gallery/AirlineActivitySummary1.pdf



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineJetskipper From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks ago) and read 12165 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 47):
-Cargo (FedEx and UPS) is up 9.77% (probably a big reason why FedEx is now sending the 757 to FWA in addition to UPS)

FWA gets two FedEx flights a day, the MEM-FWA-SBN flight on the 727-200 from the sort in Memphis, and the PVD-FWA-MEM flight on the 757-200 to the sort. Its hard to tell if the up gauge in equipment is due to increased demand from Providence or Fort Wayne. Eventually the morning MEM-FWA-SBN flight will be replaced with a 757-200 as the 727s are slowly retired.


User currently offlineJetskipper From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks ago) and read 12154 times:

I may be a day late, but for any South Bend spotters, Notre Dame flew a Delta A-330-300 to FLL for the national title game.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/D...3/history/20130102/1800Z/KSBN/KFLL

The team should be arriving back in South Bend on the 8th. I was really hoping that SBN would finally get a 747-400, since this was a National Title charter. I know other teams such as Nebraska and Wisconsin routinely use 747s for their team charters. Just wishful thinking I guess...


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 50, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks ago) and read 12151 times:

With G4's Airbus deliveries this year, could we see the resumption of FWA-LAS and/or an equipment switch on SBN-LAS to an A32x?

As I have said before, the two reasons cited by G4 for ending FWA-LAS in 2008 were high fuel costs and the the three-way fare war on IND-LAS. The former is mitigated by the A32x's lower fuel costs compared to the MD-80, and the latter has gone from 3 airlines flying 5x daily total to one airline (WN) twice a day. As a result, G4 was able to make more money ($10 more per pax) on SBN-LAS, so they kept that instead of FWA-LAS.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 51, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12106 times:
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Qouting Jetskipper
I may be a day late, but for any South Bend spotters, Notre Dame flew a Delta A-330-300 to FLL for the national title game.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/D...3/history/20130102/1800Z/KSBN/KFLL

The team should be arriving back in South Bend on the 8th. I was really hoping that SBN would finally get a 747-400, since this was a National Title charter. I know other teams such as Nebraska and Wisconsin routinely use 747s for their team charters. Just wishful thinking I guess...


Notre Dame did charter a Northwest B747-400 when they flew to a bowl game in Hawaii. The flight operated SBN-LAX-HNL. It was the heaviest airplane to operate off of SBN.


User currently offlineJetskipper From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12083 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 51):

Wow, thanks for the correction, I must have missed that one. I remember a Tower Air 747-200 charter circa 1995 in South Bend for a National Guard charter, but that was the only 747 flight I was aware of other than Air Force 1.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 53, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12079 times:

Does anyone think that either SBN or FWA could gain WN service now that the "eight-flight rule" (which neither SBN nor FWA could meet) is dead and a minimum 15% return on investment is in its place?

I know that under FWA's previous ASD (now at RDU), FWA was talking to both WN and FL, and SBN's SCASD filings with the feds show that SBN was talking with FL in the same timeframe. FWA might have an edge over SBN in the WN network because SBN is a 1 hour and 45 minute drive to MDW (WN's largest station) with frequent buses between SBN and MDW. OTOH, FWA is a 2 hour and 20 minute drive to IND, the nearest WN city, but IND is a far smaller station for WN than MDW is.

For FWA, I could see two flights daily to BWI (there is a huge market between FWA and DC currently not served nonstop) and a daily flight to DEN, for three flights total (which is in line with recent WN/FL station conversions of cities of similar size). And business fares and yields at FWA (minus G4's Florida and MYR flights, though PGD performs really well) are high enough that it could easily meet the 15% ROI goal.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineexFWAOONW From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 12070 times:

I think WN will have to consider ground-handling costs moreso than other carriers. I don't think (and don't know) WN farms out their ground work. Three fights a day will add significant cost to those flights to overcome. (and may be the basis for the old 8-flight-rule)


Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 55, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12039 times:

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 54):
I don't think (and don't know) WN farms out their ground work. Three fights a day will add significant cost to those flights to overcome. (and may be the basis for the old 8-flight-rule)

WN does do subcontracted ground work at former FL stations, starting with EYW (2 flights per day).

IIRC, the current WN ground contract says that all WN stations with more than 12 flights per day must be handled by WN crew. There is also a cap on contractors based on systemwide flights; I forgot what this number is.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 2007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12003 times:

Quoting atlengineer (Reply 10):
The reason that Warsaw is that high is that Warsaw has 3 of the world's 5 largest orthopedic manufactures based there as well as the world headquarters of Daylight Screen Company.

My brother works for a medical logistics company and he says the warehouse in Warsaw is bigger than the other three warehouses the company owns, combined! That says something right there.



I think SBN's best bet to get Big Apple service is DL. After all, DL has all those LGA slots it doesn't seem to know what to do with.


User currently offlineJetskipper From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12007 times:

I think the problem for SBN and FWA is that over 50% of the areas potential air travelers drive to either Chicago or Indianapolis for cheaper or direct flights. In the case of customers driving to get cheaper airfares I would say a good majority of them are flying Southwest out of MDW or IND. So if Southwest was to open either SBN or FWA all they would do is fly the same people that were willing to drive to Chicago or Indy with the additonal cost of opening and operating a new station and at the same time decreasing (albeit a small percentage) of the customers using their already established stations. It really doesn't make sense for them to open either airport unless they drop their current strategy and develope into a true hub and spoke carrier with regional feed.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 58, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 11962 times:

Quoting LV (Reply 56):
I think SBN's best bet to get Big Apple service is DL. After all, DL has all those LGA slots it doesn't seem to know what to do with.

  

DFW service, OTOH, is the most-requested new nonstop city from SBN. I have read that they are talking to both AA and NK regarding DFW, but does anyone really think that SBN-DFW would work without AA's massive DFW feed?



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 59, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11878 times:
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This is why SBN brought in F9 to stop some of the bleeding to MDW. WN's fares into MDW from some markets are higher than F9's into SBN with the connection in DEN. UA also lowered fares into SBN and are now competitive with WN's fares to MDW. The big difference with F9 is that they are operating a Full-Sized jet and the flight from DEN in the evening and to DEN in the mid morning is timed perfect. Rental car costs are also cheaper in SBN than MDW.

The catchment area for SBN and FWA does not have a large enough population base for WN. Wn requires a catchment area of over 1 million people to begin service. The eight flight rule doesn't apply to EYW because it's a special tourist market.


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 60, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11873 times:
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Here is a link to the old Notre Dame charter article.

http://www.wndu.com/sports/headlines/36483874.html


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 61, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 11845 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 59):
Wn requires a catchment area of over 1 million people to begin service. The eight flight rule doesn't apply to EYW because it's a special tourist market.

Some of WN's new ex-FL markets are in catchment areas under 1 million (see PWM, DSM, and ICT). None of those three airports fall under the (former) WN eight-flight rule (which has been replaced with a minimum 15% ROI), as PWM has three flights per day, DSM has two, and ICT has five.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 62, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11840 times:
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If WN comes into the SBN or FWA market what would that do to Delta's connecting service to ATL or DTW? I would assume that if WN would operate to BWI some of the DTW flights might be cut. Delta cut the morning flight from SBN-MSP because F9 had the west connections covered with their flight to DEN.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 63, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 11826 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 62):
If WN comes into the SBN or FWA market what would that do to Delta's connecting service to ATL or DTW? I would assume that if WN would operate to BWI some of the DTW flights might be cut.

I would only expect a very slight impact to DL's ATL service if Florida flying is involved. You may be right on BWI (the most likely city for WN SBN or FWA service), though FWA in particular has a huge O&D market to DC.

Also of note: Since WN and catchment areas were mentioned in the same sentence, FWA's 90 minute drive (or was it 2 hours - I forget which) catchment radius is 1.2 million (for comparison's sake, IND's is about 2.5 million). As such, FWA was talking with WN about service under their previous ASD even before the abolishment of the 1 million people and eight-flight rulea.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 64, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 11623 times:
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Just did a check of one way fares to typical westbound destinations from SBN on Frontier as compared to other airlines and SWA out of MDW.

DEN - F9 - 79 UA- 194 WN - 160
LAX - F9 - 196 UA- 196 WN - 169
SFO - F9 - 197 UA- 197 WN - 169
DFW - F9 - 184 UA- 184 WN - 221
PHX - F9 - 279 UA- 295 WN -142

Although United has matched Frontiers fares out of SBN the flights involve a connection at O'hare which is a congested airport and involves a regional jet flight to ORD while F9's service is on a full size jet. If anything Frontier's service and low fares are stimulating traffic out of SBN. WN's service is slightly cheaper but involves a two hour drive to MDW from SBN and the convenience of using the home town airport negates this with the exception of traveling to PHX but Allegiant's flights from SBN-IWA are probably cheaper.

So in my opinion Frontier is not only low cost but with the use of an A319 is better.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 65, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11551 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 64):
WN's service is slightly cheaper but involves a two hour drive to MDW from SBN and the convenience of using the home town airport negates this

Not if you're checking two bags. In that case, add $120 to the UA and F9 fares from SBN, though the costs of MDW may still add up even with "bags fly free".

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 64):
If anything Frontier's service and low fares are stimulating traffic out of SBN.

I could see F9 going daily in the near future from SBN.

On a related note, does anyone think that FWA has a shot at DEN service on F9 or UA? I know that FWA's old ASD didn't think that F9 would survive, and was going after UA to DEN instead for that reason plus connections. But after he left for RDU, I spoke with FWA management at a conference. They seem to be far more open to F9 at FWA now and think that a better second hub for UA would be either EWR or (more likely) IAD. Still, I see G4 restarting FWA-LAS with an Airbus and/or DL upgrading FWA-ATL to larger aircraft before FWA-DEN or FWA-IAD.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 66, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11513 times:
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The flight I'm taking out of SBN to DEN is booked solid. When I checked a month ago there was 111 seats sold now it's all 138. I might add that the same A319 continues on to DFW as flight 130.

User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 67, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11513 times:
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Just checked F9's SBN-DEN flight today on Flightaware. The Flight was F9 #803 to DEN. The flight arrived at Gate A40 and the same plane left from that gate as F9 #130 to DFW. Now since DFW is the 4th most requested destination from SBN is Frontier experimenting with possible single plane service to DFW thru DEN and if so in the future could we possibly see a single flight number from SBN-DEN-DFW? Just thinking.

User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1915 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11513 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 65):
Still, I see G4 restarting FWA-LAS with an Airbus and/or DL upgrading FWA-ATL to larger aircraft before FWA-DEN or FWA-IAD.

While I am not sure of all the "rules" on United Express ops, to me in concept a CR7 FWA-DFEN make perfect sense. Move a bit of your longer flight customers to a less congested airport. Funny, as we have discussed on here before, the 727 that UA ran most of the year for a number of years in the mid-late 70's on a FWA-SBN-DEN routing did pretty well as I recall. We all know that after April of 80 after the cancellation of the ORD and CLE mainline in the Great lakes region the often tweaked 72S FWA-PIA-DEN, TOL-FWA-DEN, and several other variations failed. Why..UA did a classic job of pissing away 99% of the goodwill that existed for 40 years. DL was bright enough to continue mainline for a number of years, even AA brought in ORD mainline for about 6 or 7 years with 727 and 72S..and UA did nothing in response in the FWA market.

I also think FWA is one of quite a few medium markets where eventually the 717 will be deployed..Perfect plane for a ride to ATL.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 69, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11512 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 67):
Now since DFW is the 4th most requested destination from SBN

Actually, it's number one. According to SBN management right before the F9 service was announced, the three most requested pre-F9 destinations from SBN were DFW, NYC, and DEN.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 70, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11499 times:

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 68):
even AA brought in ORD mainline for about 6 or 7 years with 727 and 72

IIRC, didn't AA use the F100 on FWA-ORD for a while in the early 90s, or was the market all-Eagle ATRs by then?

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 68):
I also think FWA is one of quite a few medium markets where eventually the 717 will be deployed..Perfect plane for a ride to ATL.

I spoke with FWA management a few months ago. While they thought the 717 was too big for FWA without a decrease in frequency (which FWA management does not want), they also thought that FWA-ATL will see larger aircraft (CR7/CR9 or E-Jet) sooner rather than later.

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 68):
While I am not sure of all the "rules" on United Express ops, to me in concept a CR7 FWA-DFEN make perfect sense. Move a bit of your longer flight customers to a less congested airport.

Per that same conversation with FWA management, there is also the risk of losing UA ORD service if UA adds both FWA-DEN and an east coast hub at once. So expect a focus on getting UA service to IAD (as I have said before, there is very high demand from FWA to that area) and finding a carrier other than UA (likely F9) to serve FWA-DEN.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1915 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11495 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 70):
IRC, didn't AA use the F100 on FWA-ORD for a while in the early 90s, or was the market all-Eagle ATRs by then

FWAERJ...I don't recall 100's to FWA. They did to IND from ORD..but I think it went mainline to ATR's. (if they did use 100's, it must have been for a very short while)


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 72, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11497 times:
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United did hack off a lot of people in SBN and FWA and it was Richard Ferris's fault for canceling all the mainline service and going from a point-to-point B737-200 airline for SBN and FWA flights to an airline hubbing at ORD only and giving all the short haul stuff to ORD to Air Wisconsin. Ferris also sold all the B737-200's which were paid for and then leased them back several years later and paid thru the nose for them. That was the start of the downhill slide for United and all the mid sized communities they served.

AA did use F100's on a few FWA-ORD flights and also were going to operate 2 MD80 flights a day out of SBN-DFW but could never get American Eagle to agree on rates for ground servicing them.


User currently onlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2764 posts, RR: 1
Reply 73, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11490 times:

For both SBN and FWA, it would seem that a couple of daily flights with each to/from CLE with UA would do a world of good for both cities, as well as CLE, in terms of connecting pax throughout the East. There is probably zilch local traffic though, so that's probably what keeps UA from doing this.....

 


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 74, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11486 times:
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United had B1900 and Dash 8 flights to Cleveland from both SBN and FWA and at one time had a United Express E135 on the morning flight to Cleveland out of SBN. Now the E135 flight I took only had one empty seat but they could never fill the Dash-8's out of either city with the SBN flights hanging on the longest. They do still operate flights from SBN-CLE on Notre Dame Football weekends along with flights to EWR on the same weekends.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 75, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11424 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 73):
For both SBN and FWA, it would seem that a couple of daily flights with each to/from CLE with UA would do a world of good for both cities, as well as CLE, in terms of connecting pax throughout the East. There is probably zilch local traffic though, so that's probably what keeps UA from doing this.....

They tried it, twice, and:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 74):
they could never fill the Dash-8's out of either city with the SBN flights hanging on the longest.

I remember the stats from the second attempt of FWA-CLE on the B1900 and later the Q200, and it had 36% LFs. SBN-CLE was also retried on the same equipment and stayed around about two years longer than FWA, though the LFs were even worse (28% toward the end). I suppose UA kept the SBN flights longer to meet their flight quota as part of the CLE settlement.

[Edited 2013-01-15 07:09:14]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineexFWAOONW From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 76, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11368 times:

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 71):
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 70):
IRC, didn't AA use the F100 on FWA-ORD for a while in the early 90s, or was the market all-Eagle ATRs by then

FWAERJ...I don't recall 100's to FWA. They did to IND from ORD..but I think it went mainline to ATR's. (if they did use 100's, it must have been for a very short while)

As I recall, they flew the F100s into FWA from ORD until they got rid of them. Then the 727 replaced the. But keep in mind, I paid very little attention to AA operations and my recollection is suspect at best.



Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
User currently onlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2764 posts, RR: 1
Reply 77, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11391 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 75):

I remember the stats from the second attempt of FWA-CLE on the B1900 and later the Q200, and it had 36% LFs. SBN-CLE was also retried on the same equipment and stayed around about two years longer than FWA, though the LFs were even worse (28% toward the end).

okay.... so it looks as though I've inadvertently answered my own concern.....

Quoting point2point (Reply 73):
There is probably zilch local traffic though, so that's probably what keeps UA from doing this.....

 


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 78, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11384 times:

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 76):
As I recall, they flew the F100s into FWA from ORD until they got rid of them. Then the 727 replaced the. But keep in mind, I paid very little attention to AA operations and my recollection is suspect at best.

Actually, the 727 came first when AA opened the FWA station in the early 1980s, first with -100s and later -200s. Then FWA-ORD went to a mix of mainline F100s and Eagle ATRs, then all-Eagle and all-ATR. Finally, as Eagle went to "nothing but jets" at ORD in 2000, FWA-ORD switched to Eagle ERJs (ERD/ER4, and I think the ER3 as well) which it remains to this day, though RP did briefly operate some FWA-ORD ERD flights as AmericanConnection as opposed to Eagle.

FWA-DFW has always been served on an Eagle ERD or an ER4 since the route's launch in 2000. AX also offered AmericanConnection service from FWA to STL on Jetstreams (inherited from TW Express); this lasted from the TWA merger until the big STL cuts in 2003 (AA also exited SBN then, as STL was the only AA service from SBN at the time).



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 79, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11154 times:

IIRC, back in the days of the AA BNA hub, didn't Eagle fly FWA-BNA with Jetstreams in addition to the ORD F100/ATR service? And did Eagle fly SBN-BNA as well?


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1915 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11100 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 79):
IIRC, back in the days of the AA BNA hub, didn't Eagle fly FWA-BNA with Jetstreams in addition to the ORD F100/ATR service?

I used that connection several times, and as I recall they were Saabs each time. Maybe a mix of J31's at one time?


User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11049 times:

When did Delta cut IND-LAX ???

Hope UA can add SFO-IND ...


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 82, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11021 times:

Quoting COSPN (Reply 81):
When did Delta cut IND-LAX

I thought it had been reduced to less-than-daily service and not cut entirely.

If it was cut entirely, it's not a good sign for IND, as they have been able to support multiple daily LAX departures in the past on airlines such as WN, FL, NW, TZ, and (going way back) US and TW.

Quoting COSPN (Reply 81):
Hope UA can add SFO-IND

IND has been wishing for this for several years now.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 83, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10950 times:

Full-year 2012 numbers for FWA are in: http://www.fwairport.com/images/gall...ry/AirlineActivitySummary.2013.pdf

FWA capped off 2012 with a YTD passenger increase of 2.26% over 2011. Total passenger enplanements at FWA for
2012 are 284,465, the highest since the recession hit and G4 pulled LAS and AZA in 2008 (with the Airbuses, I expect the former to return soon, but not the latter due to poor package sales). In fact, FWA's 2012 numbers were only 2,878 enplanements shy of the 2008 numbers. Cargo (FedEx and UPS) also got a boost at FWA in 2012 with a 9.4% YTD increase.

FWA airline marketshare for YTD (Jan-Dec) 2012 vs. the same period in 2011 (and my thoughts):
DL 42.69% (Down 3.13 share points, though not all is lost as the FWA market as a whole grew slightly. With the 9E pilot deal and if the 9E FWA MX base stays open, I see FWA-ATL and maybe a frequency or two on FWA-DTW switching to CR9s by year's end. And even if the 9E FWA MX base closes, I could see 9E, EV, CP, or S5 flying 70-seaters into FWA.)
AA/Eagle 27.54% (Up 1.12 share points, even as AA was undergoing restructuring, which sometimes causes drops in market share. This is likely due to increased ORD service last summer. The bump in ORD flights from 3 to 4 will also resume this year in March. Like DL and ATL, I see larger aircraft on FWA-DFW shortly after AA puts out a bid for 70+ seat flying.)
G4 17.02% (Up 2.04 share points, likely due to new and popular PGD service offsetting lower frequency to SFB and PIE during some peak periods. MYR returned for 2012 and will be back for 2013 as well, and I expect LAS to make a comeback this fall with the A32x. And if FWA builds the FIS facility found in their 2012 master plan, I see weekly CUN and PUJ or MBJ service on G4 as soon as FIS opens.)
UA 12.19% (Virtually flat compared to 2011. But I could see UA adding IAD this year - the market is there, and surveys have been done. DEN is possible as well, but from my conversation with FWA management at a conference, they are afraid that starting two new UA hubs at once would cannibalize existing ORD service, and that F9 may be more likely for DEN. Don't expect EWR with slot controls.)
Charters 0.56% (Also flat. LL started charters from FWA in 2012 in addition to G4, F3, and V2, and RW/F9 is being thrown into the mix in 2013. Between what I heard from FWA management and the charters, I wonder is this is a sign of F9 scheduled service at FWA in the near future?)

All-airline combined LFs for December at FWA were 80%. Flight operations and passenger numbers were down slightly for the month of December (-1.23%), likely due in part to DL making MSP seasonal again (service resumes in early March).

Last month, FWA also announced some upgrades to their terminal: http://www.fwairport.com/images/gallery/MINUTES.12.17.12.pdf (scroll to pages 2 and 3)

Among the improvements are a family center pre-security, a children's play area, business center upgrades, preparation for baggage lifts (in anticipation of the return of mainline service?), and cosmetic improvements including Corian covering for the columns and a coat of fresh paint on both floors.

FWA also tweaked their airline fees for 2013. While apron and landing fees per 1,000 lbs are 4 and 1 cents higher than 2012, respectively, terminal rent is a whopping 97 cents per square foot lower than 2012.

[Edited 2013-01-21 15:09:24]

[Edited 2013-01-21 15:21:07]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinecapitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10841 times:

Just looking at flights to SBN in March and all flights are now on E145. This continues the trend of declining seats into SBN from both UA and DL. And DL just announced they are reducing capacity systemwide again. This of course means ever increasing fares. And ever increasing frustration. My last two trips to the area I have chosen to drive because of high fares. Surely there is a point of diminishing returns they will hit at some point.

They need another airline (AA?) to come in and upset their honeypot they have going.


User currently offlinecapitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 85, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10833 times:

SBN is down a little over 2% as of November 30 in pax. This is even with Allegiant up 25% and a new F9 flight. Direct result of cuts from UA (down about 5% in pax) and DL (down about 8% in pax).

Tellingly pax taking United Limo bus to MDW and ORD went up 7% and Southshore went up as well.

I would say UA and DL are driving away business in droves and aren't doing SBN any favors.

Also, I would expect new routes from FWA on DL since they just announced a new capacity cut.


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 86, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10799 times:
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DL also doesn't have the morning flight to MSP from SBN anymore and the reason almost all SBN-ORD flying is on E145's is that United moved the CRJ/CRJ7 lift to IAH and moved almost all of Expressjet to Chicago. The airlines just matched capacity to demand. F9 is taking some business away from United more than Delta but Both have pretty much matched F9's fares in certain city pairs and business seems to be coming back for all the carriers.

User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 87, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10796 times:
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I might add that United Express parks 2 jets at SBN overnight one Expressjet E145 and one Shuttle America E170.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 88, posted (1 year 9 months 23 hours ago) and read 10777 times:

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 85):
Also, I would expect new routes from FWA on DL since they just announced a new capacity cut.

Don't you mean wouldn't? DL is maxed out on doable hubs from FWA anyway at ATL, DTW, and MSP: CVG will probably never return, MEM is being reduced further by the day, JFK or LGA wouldn't be viable with the lack of O&D from FWA to NYC, and SLC is too far.

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 86):
F9 is taking some business away from United more than Delta but Both have pretty much matched F9's fares in certain city pairs and business seems to be coming back for all the carriers.

As one of my longtime friends told me many times: "Competition is the great equalizer."  
Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 85):
SBN is down a little over 2% as of November 30 in pax. This is even with Allegiant up 25% and a new F9 flight. Direct result of cuts from UA (down about 5% in pax) and DL (down about 8% in pax).

Sounds linke F9 came in a bit too late to boost SBN into positive number territory. I read that IND was down about 3% as well, so they're not alone in the Bend.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 89, posted (1 year 9 months 18 hours ago) and read 10735 times:
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The reason SBN is down in November is its the end of the Notre Dame Football Season and the weekend mainline service on those weekends. Also Delta no longer has the morning flight to MSP. United still has E170's and CR7's on some flights to ORD but only on certain days just like F9 not doing daily service. In other words, the airlines are matching seats to demand. Frontier has brought fares down in SBN to where it now costs more now to go to Chicago Midway and fly Southwest than it does using the hometown airport.

As far as cuts at SBN go: United is using 37-pax E135's during the slow times of the day other times its mostly E145's and some E45X's. On the busiest days they do add 2 E170 flights to ORD. The early morning E170 operates SBN-ORD-OMA-DEN. The later flight operates SBN-ORD-PIT. They also throw in a CR7 or two.

Delta is operating an afternoon flight to MSP as well as their three flights to ATL and 6 to DTW.

F9 loads seem to be pretty good as the flight I'm flying to the Bend this week has 120 booked along with my return flight to DEN. Now when United operated this after deregulation with a B727, They never carried more than 60 or so out of SBN and maybe 80 in. F9 is doubling that and then some.

So in reality 2% drop in traffic is in reality not much. As to F9 it took awhile for them to get a jet free, get all the logistics in place at SBN and sign contracts etc. (I think it was 9 months after the SCASD grant was issued to SBN) I expect SBN's numbers to increase in 2013 as people discover the service and use it. Fact they already are.

I've actually posted comparison fares on SBN's Facebook page to show that it is cheaper to fly from SBN than driving or bussing to Chicago to fly.


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 90, posted (1 year 9 months 17 hours ago) and read 10717 times:
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F9 also came into SBN on October 13th so the SBN November numbers probably didn't include F9's passenger numbers as it was probably too early to compile them for inclusion.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 91, posted (1 year 9 months 16 hours ago) and read 10709 times:

An article from WANE.com on FWA's passenger numbers increasing in 2012: http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/local/b...-international-airport-during-2012

FWA management cites lower capacity across the board as a reason along with increasing fares at other airports, which in their view makes FWA more economical than driving to IND or DTW (even at higher fares). Other reasons cited by FWA management were G4's PGD service and continued strong business travel (as I have said before, business travel comprises most of FWA's passengers).

Oddly enough, there are zero pro-IND comments in the comments section, a first that I've seen for an article on FWA at WANE.com.  



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 92, posted (1 year 9 months 14 hours ago) and read 10682 times:

FWA is about to launch a new website, the first redesign since FWA launched their current logo and brand in 2008. A preview version will be available soon at http://www.fwairport.com.

I remember when FWA launched their current website, which was a huge improvement over their previous website from 2002 or so that was designed for Internet Explorer 5.5. That browser was common in 2002, and many people were switching to the relatively similar (from a programmer's standpoint) IE6 by then. But by 2008, many people were on IE7 (a major change from both IE5.5 and IE6) and Firefox 3 (popular for add-ons), along with Safari 4 for Mac users. That year, some Windows users were even trying out Google Chrome (now the most popular browser) for the first time.

Hopefully, this redesign will be a similar leap in design and functionality, sort of like the difference between SBN's old and current websites. My wishlist is a website built on straight HTML and CSS with a hybrid HTML5/Flash video player - with advancements in browsers, you don't need Adobe Flash anymore except to play video for IE8 users (still about 20% of Web traffic). Also on my wishlist are FWA iPhone and Android apps (for sure) and maybe even a Windows Phone 8 app or even just a good HTML5 mobile website.

Reusser Design (http://www.reusserdesign.com/), based about 10 miles from FWA in the Fort Wayne suburb of Roanoke (also home to the famous Joseph Decuis restaurant, another Reusser customer), handled the redesign.

EDIT: Here's a screenshot of the new site: http://www.flyfwa.com/images/gallery/FortWayneInternationalAirport.jpg

[Edited 2013-01-23 18:13:39]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 93, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10579 times:

Another FWA new website update: No dedicated app or "lite" mobile site. Instead, the new FWA site will use a CSS3-based responsive layout that will scale from desktop to tablet to phone based on device screen and platform.

Here's an article on the concept from a popular website that has embraced this technique: http://mashable.com/2012/12/11/responsive-web-design/



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineexFWAOONW From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 94, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10546 times:

Do ASA aircraft still arrive at FWA?


Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 95, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10538 times:

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 94):
Do ASA aircraft still arrive at FWA?

ASA hasn't been around for a while (it's now ExpressJet, retaining the EV code), but EV still flies into FWA - I was on an EV CR2 last September from DTW to FWA (a route that's shared with 9E) and I think they occasionally do an ATL flight as well. Quite honestly, I thought that the 9E CR2s were nicer than the EV ones.

Since the image in the new FWA website photo is the Ron Allen livery, and all DL and DL Connection planes are now in the Onward & Upward livery, I guess the designers picked an older shot.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinecapitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 96, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 10513 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 89):
The reason SBN is down in November is its the end of the Notre Dame Football Season and the weekend mainline service on those weekends.

These were year over year numbers, not month to month. So they were down 2% from November 2011.

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 90):
F9 also came into SBN on October 13th so the SBN November numbers probably didn't include F9's passenger numbers as it was probably too early to compile them for inclusion.

F9 numbers were included in November stats.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 97, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 10463 times:

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 96):
F9 numbers were included in November stats.

IIRC, airports have to start including data for a new airline or route the day it starts. When G4 launched FWA-MYR and FWA-PGD, the numbers were factored into overall G4 numbers for that month.

Anyway, things aren't looking so good at IND. Boardings are at a ten-year low and 6% less than what the IAA had hoped, plus average fares are skyrocketing:
http://www.ibj.com/indianapolis-airp...t-10-year-low/PARAMS/article/39103

The article also said that IND is looking to increase parking revenue by adding more shuttles from remote lots and offering more options in the higher-rate/profit parking garage. (IND hasn't raised parking rates since the fall of 2009). The old terminal will be demolished soon for more cargo space (for FedEx?), as cargo is growing at IND even as passenger counts drop. Power outlets have also been added to some terminal holdroom seats (FWA installed similar, if not identical systems last year).



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 98, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10444 times:

Another update on the new FWA website launching soon from FWA's Facebook page: Unlike the current website with an Adobe Flash header (and at one time, the Flash-based "virtual hospitality host" that was quickly dropped), no Flash elements will be used on the new flyfwa.com. The responsive layout is all HTML and CSS, so any popular mobile device can access it.

However, if you are using a version of Internet Explorer older than version 8, the developer of the new site wants you or your IT department to upgrade or find another browser: http://www.reusserdesign.com/blog/ending-ie7-support/



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineexFWAOONW From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 99, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10407 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 95):
Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 94):
Do ASA aircraft still arrive at FWA?

ASA hasn't been around for a while (it's now ExpressJet, retaining the EV code), but EV still flies into FWA - I was on an EV CR2 last September from DTW to FWA (a route that's shared with 9E) and I think they occasionally do an ATL flight as well. Quite honestly, I thought that the 9E CR2s were nicer than the EV ones.

Since the image in the new FWA website photo is the Ron Allen livery, and all DL and DL Connection planes are now in the Onward & Upward livery, I guess the designers picked an older shot.

Going with an older photo of something that no longer exists detracts from the image you're trying to convey, i.e. a modern way to travel. Might as well use a DC3 photo.   



Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 100, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10381 times:

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 99):
Going with an older photo of something that no longer exists detracts from the image you're trying to convey, i.e. a modern way to travel.

That said, while I like keeping things as up-to-date as possible, most people will just see the name and logo on the fuselage and/or tail and think "Delta (Connection) serves FWA". For that matter, they could place a UA CRJ with the tulip (even in battleship grey) or a DL Colors in Motion/wavy gravy CRJ with similar results. As long as the airline serves FWA, that's all that matters.

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 99):
Might as well use a DC3 photo.

Not too far-fetched - the FWA museum just off the escalators has plenty of DC-3 and C-47 photos.  

[Edited 2013-01-26 20:10:44]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 101, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10283 times:

Any news at EVV? It's seemed awfully quiet there over the past few months. Since G4 went across the state line to OWB, does F9 to MCO and/or DEN sound far-fetched?

I know they have a SCASD grant for Star Alliance hub service as well. Of the three non-IND small airports in Indiana with commercial legacy service, here is the alliance status of each:
-FWA has Star Alliance (UA to ORD), SkyTeam (DL to ATL/DTW/MSP), and oneworld (AA to DFW/ORD)
-EVV has SkyTeam (DL to ATL/DTW) and oneworld (AA to DFW/ORD), but not Star Alliance
-SBN has Star Alliance (UA to ORD) and SkyTeam (DL to ATL/DTW/MSP), but not oneworld (though DFW is the most-requested destination from SBN)



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3856 posts, RR: 34
Reply 102, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 10195 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 97):
Anyway, things aren't looking so good at IND. Boardings are at a ten-year low and 6% less than what the IAA had hoped, plus average fares are skyrocketing:
http://www.ibj.com/indianapolis-airp...39103

IND has now posted their official year-end totals. Since the article you linked to only gives the number of enplanements, and a general overview, here's the link for a more detailed report showing total number of passengers for anyone who wants to look at it. It also breaks out domestic and international passengers.

IND December 2012 Airline Activity Report

Total passengers were 7,333,733 - (7,301,708 domestic and 32,025 international) Domestic passengers were down 2% and international passengers were up 7.5%. Total traffic was down 1.9% from the previous year.

LoneStarMike


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 103, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 10146 times:

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 102):
Total passengers were 7,333,733 - (7,301,708 domestic and 32,025 international) Domestic passengers were down 2% and international passengers were up 7.5%. Total traffic was down 1.9% from the previous year.

Still bad when IND was pumping almost 9 million combined enplanements and deplanements through the old terminal, limitations and all, in 2005.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 104, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 10055 times:

so spent a Billion dollars for a New terminal for 7 million PAX, when the old one did 9 Million ???

More Indiana tax money wasted, then the City sells off the old Bus Station and now uses a small room in Union Station for the Busses with one or 2 1920's bathrooms... really sad, for the 'crossroads of America' I hate to think what the transit bus pax think when they try to use a 1920's toilet with no latch on the stall.. after riding the bus form East coast to transfer busses in Indianapolis...but least they got a new 'covered' Jet terminal at TYQ (Indy Exec in Zionsville) so the rich guys dont get wet when they get out of thier private Jet and into the limo..(Thanks Pres. Obama for the ERA funds for the new 1% ers runway at TYQ)


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 105, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10016 times:

Quoting COSPN (Reply 104):

so spent a Billion dollars for a New terminal for 7 million PAX, when the old one did 9 Million ???

More Indiana tax money wasted

IND does not use state or local tax dollars to fund their operations. They use a mixture of fees to the airlines and other tenants, passenger facility charges, FAA funds (like all airports), and debt to finance the Indianapolis Airport Authority.

SBN and FWA, however, do use local tax dollars.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 106, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9915 times:
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SBN's new concourse cost just 12+ million and the main building has the intercity bus terminal right inside as it has for many years. All transportation, airlines, intercity buses and South Shore rail are all conveniently located at the airport.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 107, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9904 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 106):
All transportation, airlines, intercity buses and South Shore rail are all conveniently located at the airport.

SBN was actually the first airport in the US set up with intercity buses, airlines, heavy commuter rail (not regional light rail/subway service), and city buses under one roof.

For a while, SBN was called "Michiana Regional Transportation Center" to reflect the intermodal nature of the facility, but eventually reverted back to South Bend (Regional) Airport (the IATA code never changed). The two SBN logos before the current one had a bus, an airplane, and a train (IIRC, that logo is still on the front of the SBN terminal building).



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 108, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9896 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 106):
SBN's new concourse cost just 12+ million

I've only seen photos, but for such a modest budget, it looks like SBN management did a very good job with their new concourse. When FWA does their own terminal updates in the near future, I could see them emulating and building upon the SBN model.

Per the 2012 FWA master plan, they don't need to do much airside at FWA. They would have to swap the security checkpoint and museum locations, expand the food options a bit more, and replace the 4 ground-level gates with an equal number of jetway gates (with one of them an FIS gate). And the manufacturer of FWA's holdroom seats (Herman Miller) still makes the same model (Eames Tandem Sling). Unless they want to switch to the Arconas FlyAway that other airports are adopting (FWA already has Arconas InPower Flex at-seat power systems), all they would have to do is order more with the same color vinyl, much like what SBN did. FWA gate and FIDS systems were recently upgraded to an AirIT shared-use system, so no changes are needed there.

That said, the 2012 FWA master plan also says that FWA will need to do a lot more landside in their terminal renovation than SBN did:
-streamline the parking and rental car lots
-build the FIS
-build a third baggage claim
-move the FBO (Atlantic Aviation) and airport authority employee parking to accomodate an increased TSA luggage screening area (this is in the works)
-add more concessions space
-potentially freshen the exterior (maybe cover up the brown brick with aluminum-composite panels)

Because a lot more would need to be done landside than what happened at SBN, I could see the FWA terminal renovation in the $20-30 million range when all is done.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 109, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9885 times:
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But what you folks didn't know was that in the original plans, the SBN concourse was suppose to be another half level up and have 3/4 height loading bridges throughout without necessitating the little interior walkway at gate A9. Also the old hold room A floor was suppose to be raised up to the height of the new concourse which would have entailed an extensive teardown including all the external gatehouses holding the present 3/4 height bridges at A2, A3, and A4. The cost would have probably been in the 20-30 million dollar range to do all that.

SBN has an extensive amount of room on the west side of the old holdroom A to build a 4 gate or so replica of the new concourse and include an FIS facility etc. The FIS facility with a baggage claim etc can be in front separated by a wall etc. The gates could be partitioned off with interior glass and a walkway into the FIS. Once passengers leave the FIS they exit to the left down a hallway into the present area outside of security. There are probably some ways that the old C gate holdroom could also be used for FIS with some extensive mods to the Allegiant gate area etc. but in my opinion building a shortened copy of the new concourse on the west side of the building is a more viable option.


User currently offlineexFWAOONW From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 110, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9823 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 100):
That said, while I like keeping things as up-to-date as possible, most people will just see the name and logo on the fuselage and/or tail and think "Delta (Connection) serves FWA". For that matter, they could place a UA CRJ with the tulip (even in battleship grey) or a DL Colors in Motion/wavy gravy CRJ with similar results. As long as the airline serves FWA, that's all....

So, to extend the argument to its logical limits, you'd be OK with a photo of a TWA a/c? They (survivor AA) serve FWA.
What I'm trying to say, either be up-to-date or historical, don't confuse the issue by showing something that is no longer current even though that may prove tricky in the long run with mergers and alliances changing the landscape every so often.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 108):
Because a lot more would need to be done landside than what happened at SBN, I could see the FWA terminal renovation in the $20-30 million range when all is done.

Are you including the new jet bridges in that estimate, because, usually, landside construction costs are lower than airside (less FAA involvement and fewer specialized pieces of equipment.) Parking lots are cheap compared to ramp or runway.



Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 111, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9766 times:

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 110):
Are you including the new jet bridges in that estimate, because, usually, landside construction costs are lower than airside (less FAA involvement and fewer specialized pieces of equipment.)

Yes, the 4 new jetways are included in my estimates along with the new and/or extended concourses to accomodate the extra jetways. The 4 current FWA jetways at gates 5-8 date back to the 1997 terminal remodel, so they might need minor upgrades that are also included in the costs. The Commute-A-Walk at ground-level Gate 2 (bought for TZ/C8, briefly used by G4 when LaBov did ground for them and not Eagle, and currently used by DL) would need to find a new home.

As for selling the Commute-A-Walk or anything else that is surplus during the terminal renovation (example: if they replace the unique-to-FWA blue-vinyl Herman Miller Eames seats with Arconas FlyAway seating like many airports have done), FWA does run online public surplus auctions (which can be accessed through PublicSurplus.com). They've auctioned everything from lost and found items to Coke glasses from the Air Host restaurant days to items confiscated by TSA agents and even used Fords (FWA seems to like Ford pickups and SUVs even with GM Fort Wayne Assembly, home of the Chevy Silverado, less than 10 miles away).

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 110):
So, to extend the argument to its logical limits, you'd be OK with a photo of a TWA a/c? They (survivor AA) serve FWA.

To be acceptable, an airline would 1) have to currently serve FWA and 2) exist in name. I wouldn't be OK with the photo of a NW, TW, YX, or CO aircraft... there are logical limits, and that would be overstepping them. Even though all those airlines served FWA at one time or another, none of them exist in name anymore. Nor would I be fine with a photo of a US, AC or WN aircraft (they don't serve FWA, quit serving FWA, or both) or a TZ aircraft (no longer in existence, period).

While we're on the subject of FWA websites and departed airlines, if you look closely on the old www.fwairport.com Flash header (catch it while you can - the new site should be up any day now), one photo is of a Kitty Hawk 733SF with the KHA titles Photoshopped out to look like a generic 737. Since the Kitty Hawk titles are gone and the airplane looks generic as a result (except to us a.netters), this would be perfectly fine due to the widespread use of Photoshopped generic aircraft photos. (Occasionally, there are even generic airplanes for filming, like the 727 that LAWA keeps at ONT for filming purposes. And ONT's mostly-empty terminals are popular Hollywood filming spots for non-aviation companies like GM, HP, Nissan, and AT&T along with airlines like WN, UA, and most recently AA.)



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 112, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9757 times:

FWA's website at www.flyfwa.com (along with its sister sites fwairport.com and smdairport.com) all started displaying a "Service Unavailable" message about 20 minutes ago, but are now back up. I assume this is related to preparing the servers for the launch of the new website shortly, as the FWA Facebook page said on January 24th that the new website was coming "(i)n just a few weeks".

As soon as the new combined FWA/SMD website is up, I'll post my impressions.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 113, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9679 times:

I noticed an "executive session only" part under the marketing/air service development committee portion of the agenda for FWA's next board meeting on 2/11: http://www.fwairport.com/images/gallery/AGENDA.2.11.13.pdf

This is the first time I've seen that notice in that spot on an FWA meeting agenda. Then again, it's been six months since FWA's marketing/air service director Dave Young left for a similar post at RDU, so I think this might have to do with his replacement. If you need a refresher course, Mr. Young was the man that brought G4 to FWA (initially to SFB, but now to PIE, MYR, and now PGD) and convinced NW (now DL) to add a seasonal FWA-MSP route. Of course, it could also mean a new airline at FWA, but since it's been so long since Mr. Young left, I think we'll be hearing about his replacement shortly and not new air service. Even so, I do think that we'll be seeing 70+ seat jets from DL to ATL (and potentially MSP as well) and AA to DFW at FWA by year end.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 114, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9663 times:
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The DGS folks at SBN seem to think that all DL flights out of SBN to ATL, DTW and MSP will go over to 70+ seaters in the future also.

User currently offlinecapitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 115, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9652 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 114):
The DGS folks at SBN seem to think that all DL flights out of SBN to ATL, DTW and MSP will go over to 70+ seaters in the future also.

If they do, expect a cut in the number of flights to go along with it.


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 116, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9637 times:
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The flights at SBN will probably stay the same even with 70+ seaters. 3 R/T to ATL, 6 to DTW and 1 to MSP with 2 more MSP R/T's added in the summer as always.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 117, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 9623 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 116):
The flights at SBN will probably stay the same even with 70+ seaters. 3 R/T to ATL, 6 to DTW and 1 to MSP with 2 more MSP R/T's added in the summer as always.

I could see the same scenario at FWA: we currently have 3 R/Ts to ATL, 4 to DTW, and 1 to MSP (suspended until March). And all the flights tend to be full... we could use the extra capacity here.

[Edited 2013-02-07 07:24:46]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 118, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9586 times:
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Just went to the SBN website and noticed that the last United Express flight to ORD today at 5:15 PM is cancelled. This is all the major companies fault. Yeah You United. Whenever ORD burps because of weather (This time it's snow) United selectively cancels their feeder flights from SBN especially. This makes for a bunch of unhappy customers. They also because of costs would rather keep the customer pissed off than put them on another carrier like Delta to DTW if they are flying East or West or to ATL if they are going south. That's if the other carrier has room. Two weeks ago they cancelled a morning Skywest flight to ORD with 70 people on board due to an electrical problem and could have easily put the westbound connections (There were a bunch going to LA) on our Frontier SBN-DEN flight but it would have cost them to do it. Seems like there is just no cooperation between the carriers at the small stations. This is another reason traffic was down 2 % because people in SBN do not trust United. They would rather drive to Chicago O'Hare and catch the flights because United service out of SBN is so unreliable at certain times.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 119, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9574 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 118):
Seems like there is just no cooperation between the carriers at the small stations.

They seem to be a bit more cooperative here at FWA. I was at FWA during some difficult weather in March 2009, flying UA to ORD and then MCO. Several of our passengers came from a canceled Eagle flight, and there was one AAdvantage Executive Platinum member sitting next to us in the holdroom that was venting and cursing about being rebooked on UA via his BlackBerry. He should have just been glad that Eagle rebooked him on UA, that his ticket wasn't simply voided, and/or that he didn't have to drive to another airport such as IND.

Of course, this was when the recession first hit and average FWA loads were in the high 60s and low 70s. They're now in the low-to-mid 80s, so there aren't as many empty seats to rebook on.

Speaking of loads and seat availability, when DL boosts FWA to 70-seaters, I see this scenario. 9E's CR9s would fly the morning departure/evening arrival ATL flight (much like today, as the 9E ATL crew base is gone), two or three of the four DTW flights (including the first two morning departures and last two evening arrivals), and the MSP flight. All of these flights would be rotated into FWA for MX and provide 9E FWA MX with 3 to 4 CR9s to work on for the night. The other two ATL flights would probably be EV CR7/9s or S5 E175s, and the midday/non-MX ferry DTW flights will probably remain on the CR2, but flown by EV.

[Edited 2013-02-07 15:54:28]

[Edited 2013-02-07 16:47:23]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 120, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9549 times:
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That's why many people in SBN would like to see Eagle back to give UA some competition to ORD and maybe flights to DFW. I think that may be coming after the merger though. In some realignment we may see flights to CLT as well as maybe Republic E175's to DFW. However I heard most if not all of the E175's are going to be based at ORD.

I think both FWA and SBN will have CR9's to ATL because they have First Class seating among other amenities and Delta would like to book their most loyal customers in First Class seats throughout their flights not just beyond ATL or DTW.

Speaking about cancelled flights my AAL MD80 flight from RNO-DFW had a major maintenance issue and they had to cancel. AAL called out SFO based crew and B738 to ferry the plane to RNO and then take 65 out of our original 146 to DFW. The rest were connecting at DFW and they got to spend an extra night in RNO at AA's expense and were rebooked the next day. Most were international going to Central and South America. They had originally rebooked me and others on Delta to SLC and then on to DFW but that got all canned by the replacement acft. I figured that if they didn't do this it would have cost American close to $146,000 in extra costs for putting all of us up in a hotel giving us meal vouchers and rebooking us on other carriers as they had no seat availability for several days.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 121, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9542 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 120):
I think both FWA and SBN will have CR9's to ATL because they have First Class seating among other amenities and Delta would like to book their most loyal customers in First Class seats throughout their flights not just beyond ATL or DTW.

Another reason for a switch to larger aircraft besides F seats: DL wants to reserve 50-seaters for flights under 450 miles, down from under 750 miles today. DL has said that most 450-750 mile 50-seat flying is unprofitable when 50-seaters are used. Both FWA-ATL and SBN-ATL, along with FWA-MSP, are over 450 miles, making the routes prime candidates for larger aircraft.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineJetskipper From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9490 times:

With the AA/US merging seeming increasingly imminent, it might be interesting to discuss the Indiana implications.

IND - has always been a very established focus city for US and has always had strong service with AA. The only possible additions I can see at IND would be a connection to LAX or PHX.

FWA - has service to both ORD and DFW. Has had US mainline service in the past. I can see RJ service to LGA, PHL or PHL.

SBN - has no service for either AA or US, however has had US mainline service in the past and AA commuter service. Similar to FWA I can see possible links to DFW, LGA, CLT or PHL. I don't see AA restarting ORD.

EVV - has the same service as FWA. The only addition I see is restarting CLT.

LAF - had AA service to STL in the last 10 years, I can't see any service without community funding.

HUF - had TW Connie service to STL in the 50's, I can't see service even with city funding.

BMG - no service in the past or future.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 123, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9490 times:

Quoting Jetskipper (Reply 122):
The only possible additions I can see at IND would be a connection to LAX or PHX.

US already flies IND-PHX twice daily. I could see IND-LAX, though, as it's an extremely underserved market compared to ten, five, or even three years ago. I could also see IND-MIA upgraded to mainline.

Quoting Jetskipper (Reply 122):
FWA - has service to both ORD and DFW. Has had US mainline service in the past. I can see RJ service to LGA, PHL or PHL.

Don't forget CLT and DCA, both with heavy ties to the FWA area. IMO, FWA is in the best position to gain new additional service from a merged AA/US.

Quoting Jetskipper (Reply 122):
SBN - has no service for either AA or US, however has had US mainline service in the past and AA commuter service. Similar to FWA I can see possible links to DFW, LGA, CLT or PHL. I don't see AA restarting ORD.

DFW is the #1 most-requested route from SBN. I could see that and either CLT or LGA to start, and I agree on no ORD flights.

Quoting Jetskipper (Reply 122):
EVV - has the same service as FWA. The only addition I see is restarting CLT.

US even flew mainline on EVV-CLT right before they pulled the plug on EVV. As such, a restart of EVV-CLT would be a natural fit.

Quoting Jetskipper (Reply 122):
LAF - had AA service to STL in the last 10 years, I can't see any service without community funding.

LAF's best chance at commercial service returning is G4 to SFB with the A32x (the runway is too short for a loaded MD-80). Already the home for Purdue charters, LAF can be upgraded to handle scheduled commercial flights extremely inexpensively.

Quoting Jetskipper (Reply 122):
HUF - had TW Connie service to STL in the 50's, I can't see service even with city funding.

Like LAF, their best hope is G4 to SFB. (There were almost HUF-BKG flights before Branson AirExpress decided to go to IND instead. They failed miserably at IND and would have done even worse at HUF, whereas G4 flies to popular tourist spots and would have a better chance of success.)



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 124, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9363 times:
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Here is a link to an article concerning GYY's interest in a public-private partnership to run the airport.

http://www.nwitimes.com/business/loc...d-a7ac-53f2-a84e-29a0dadf9e54.html


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 125, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9367 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 124):
Here is a link to an article concerning GYY's interest in a public-private partnership to run the airport.

Why not? IND was run by a public-private partnership (BAA Indianapolis) for almost 15 years and was better-managed then than they are now.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinecsturdiv From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 1491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 126, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9327 times:

I cannot remember if I asked this in a previous thread. Is there a site that shows historic air traffic routes? Or d

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 123):
US even flew mainline on EVV-CLT right before they pulled the plug on EVV. As such, a restart of EVV-CLT would be a natural fit.

If I remember right (which I may not) I think at one time there was an EVV-PIT flight as well, but that was with one of the US express carriers. I am curious as to when DL gets their B717s and they replace the DC-9s and the 50 seat regional jets if DL will use the B717 on the EVV-ATL flights that are now CR2.



An American expat living and working in Australia
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 127, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9347 times:

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 126):
If I remember right (which I may not) I think at one time there was an EVV-PIT flight as well, but that was with one of the US express carriers.

There was EVV-PIT, which ended around the same time EVV-CLT went from Express to mainline. FWA-PIT and SBN-PIT ended around the same time as EVV-PIT, but neither had CLT or PHL replacements (then again, most PIT-only cities affected by the PIT dehubbing were simply abandoned by US). At one time, US also flew EVV/FWA/SBN/LAF-IND (LAF baffles me, as IND is an hour or less from Lafayette) and EVV/FWA-DAY during the days of the IND and DAY hubs.

Cape Air did retry IND-SBN/EVV about a decade later, and TZ (C8) briefly flew IND-FWA in 2004. FWA was also invited to the Cape Air intrastate service, but declined as the drive to IND from FWA is far easier than that from SBN or EVV.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinecsturdiv From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 1491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 128, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9326 times:

Thanks, I remember that the US check in desk was next to the AA check in. I used to fly EVV-ORD-EVV a lot, first when it was on ATR and then when MQ went to the ERJ.


An American expat living and working in Australia
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 129, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9302 times:

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 128):
I remember that the US check in desk was next to the AA check in.

Until recently, you could actually see the gray pinstriped US ticket counter backdrop minus the US Airways Express signage at FWA. NW (PinnPro) and later DL (Regional Elite and later DGS) took over the old US space, and the US wallpaper was replaced and repainted "Delta blue" when DL doubled their self check-in kiosks at FWA and installed new ticket podiums that integrated the kiosks.

Speaking of US and FWA, I think we may be seeing them (sort of) return soon... only the planes will say "American Eagle" in the new AA livery and the destinations will be CLT, DCA, or PHL (pick two) instead of PIT, DAY, and IND. We'll have a better idea within hours...  



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinecsturdiv From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 1491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 130, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9280 times:

Yeah, I wonder if there will be an American Eagle service from EVV-CLT now, or maybe EVV-PHL? I've always wished better for my hometown airport, but with it being in driving distance of IND, SDF and STL, there isn't much of a chance. I would've added in CVG, but not now. Back when I was in college (early 90s) I could've sworn that I once flew EVV-CVG-ORD.


An American expat living and working in Australia
User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1915 posts, RR: 0
Reply 131, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9217 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 129):
Speaking of US and FWA, I think we may be seeing them (sort of) return soon... only the planes will say "American Eagle" in the new AA livery and the destinations will be CLT, DCA, or PHL (pick two) instead of PIT, DAY, and IND. We'll have a better idea within hours...

My bet is 2 daily CLT and 1 DCA..within 1 year from formal merger (august??)

and a third DFW.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 132, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9210 times:

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 131):
My bet is 2 daily CLT and 1 DCA..within 1 year from formal merger (august??)

and a third DFW.

I think we could see the third DFW or equipment upgrades to 70-seat jets on FWA-DFW even before the AA/US merger happens. CLT and DCA will have to wait until after the merger.

And here's a fun fact related to US and Indiana airports: former FWA air service director Dave Young (now at RDU) once worked at US in the Crystal Palace and shared cubicles at US headquarters with Bob Fornaro (former FL CEO). I can say that FL was seriously considering FWA, but FL was acquired by WN before Mr. Young's dream of reuniting on a business level with his former US cubemate could become reality.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 133, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9126 times:

At IND, the only airport in Indiana where AA and US both operate, the new AA will be #3 in market share behind #1 WN (including FL flights) and #2 DL. Last year, AA was #5 at IND with a 10% share and US was #4 with a 13.6% share; if AA and US were one, they would have had a 23.6% share at IND. For comparison, DL had a 25.4% share and WN+FL had a 30.4% share (19.2% for WN-coded flights and 11.2% for FL-coded flights)

Indiana Public Media: http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/a...affect-indianapolis-airport-44967/
Official IND FY2012 numbers from the IAA: http://www.indianapolisairport.com/a...ity%20Report%20December%202012.pdf

Meanwhile, just up I-69 at FWA, they are getting ready to launch a new series of TV commercials produced by longtime agency of record Asher Agency. Asher has been FWA's ad agency for nine out of the past 12 years, and also counts Subway restaurants (in over 20 markets including FWA, LEX, IND, RDU, and now ATL along with US Armed Forces bases), Ivy Tech Community College, a local Honda dealership, and the Indiana State Fair as clients. At a trade event for our industry last night, I spoke with Asher's recently-appointed creative director. Naturally, as I work for an Asher competitor, he wouldn't divulge many hints except that they will be "funny".

That said, I don't think that FWA has used the humor approach to sell the airport since they started advertising (FWA didn't advertise at all until 1998). All of the FWA ads that I have seen since I moved here have either focused on new flights (MSP and PGD are two recent examples), used traditional selling techniques, and (most recently) were image-building ads. So it should be interesting to see what Asher comes up with, and also if Asher decides to target users of other airports.

[Edited 2013-02-17 18:00:08]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 134, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9019 times:
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I just got back from a trip to San Juan, PR. and I was observing the loading bridges at San Juan at the American gates. The sit quite low. I think they were 3/4 height bridges. The offices below the gates appear to also have low ceilings compared to other airports. Yet these bridges do fit B738's and B752's quite easily with an incline. This leads me to believe that the 3/4 height bridge at SBN gate A9 will fit Allegiant's B752's sill height besides the MD80's and their A319's. Now all SBN needs to do is strengthen the apron in that area.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 135, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days ago) and read 8974 times:

Well, that didn't take long: there's a shot of the producers of the new FWA commercial filming it in the terminal on the FWA Facebook page.

Added link: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151448008637351&set=a.10150104948502351.294783.79499017350&type=1&theater

[Edited 2013-02-19 08:53:31]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineexFWAOONW From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 136, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8884 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 133):
and also if Asher decides to target users of other airports.

What ad agency put up the billboards on northbound I-69 that said, " if you flew FWA, you'd be home now" ?



Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 137, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8873 times:

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 136):
What ad agency put up the billboards on northbound I-69 that said, " if you flew FWA, you'd be home now" ?

That was Marketshare+, FWA's first ad agency from 1998-2000 - and the exact wording was "Save Precious Time. Fly from Fort Wayne International Airport." with the photo of a child. Asher became FWA's agency in 2001 and has served FWA almost continuously since with the exception of 2004-2006 when LaBov & Beyond was their agency. (LaBov once owned a Cessna CitationJet based at FWA and was also G4's first ground handler at FWA.)

Speaking of FWA, their new website is up: http://www.flyfwa.com

It's as big of an improvement over the old one as the previous one was over the one before it.

[Edited 2013-02-20 13:29:44]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 138, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8736 times:

Another day, another shot from the filming of FWA's new TV ads, this time by local filming company PUNCH Films (which is a production company that handles many local agencies including Asher) and featuring an Eagle ERJ: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb....218627.95444262328&type=1&theater

Looks like this ad campaign could be a winner (and I think it will, having met the brains behind the ad).

[Edited 2013-02-25 18:20:13]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 139, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8646 times:

FWA's activity report for January just came out: http://fwairport.com/uploads/page/ACTIVITYREPORT_JAN2013.pdf

December, January, and February are typically the slowest months of the year for FWA. Yet despite one less DFW flight compared to January 2012 and the suspension of DL's MSP service until early March that didn't happen last year, FWA actually did quite well. The year-over-year passenger decline was less than 1% (likely due to the continued success of G4's PGD flights - G4's traffic was up over 31% vs. Jan/12), which is basically flat. All-airline combined LFs at FWA were at 83% - some of the highest that I have seen since I started tracking FWA LFs. With numbers that good, I bet this means bigger planes on ATL, DFW, and potentially DTW and Eagle's ORD flights as well this year, and maybe a new or resumed G4 city.

Cargo (FedEx and UPS) registered a healthy 10.97% year-over-year increase, almost all from cargo originating at FWA.

Anyone know the January numbers for SBN? Is F9 helping their numbers?



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 140, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8656 times:
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Good news for SBN Delta's morning flight from SBN to MSP returns on March 2. Allegiant also steps up their flights in March for Spring Break. United Express flights are almost all ERJ's now except for 1 E170 flight on weekends.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 141, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8649 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 140):
Good news for SBN Delta's morning flight from SBN to MSP returns on March 2.

Same day that DL resumes FWA-MSP after the seasonal suspension.

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 140):
Allegiant also steps up their flights in March for Spring Break.

Like normal, they're doing that at FWA, too. SFB goes from 2x to 3-4x/week and PIE goes from 2x to 4x/week for March. PGD remains as-is at 2x/week, though G4 is still adding new destinations to the base. I wouldn't be surprised if G4 adds extra PGD flights in March 2014 once PGD is at critical mass for them and as the MD-80s that are being displaced by Airbuses move to the PGD base.

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 140):
United Express flights are almost all ERJ's now except for 1 E170 flight on weekends.

United Express