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Lufthansa Might Introduce A Premium Economy  
User currently offlineB777Neuss From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 155 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2957 times:

Lufthansa thinks about the introduction of a premium economy.

http://www.aero.de/news-16279/Luftha...conomy-Class-auf-Langstrecken.html

Only in german, sorry.

Summarized from the article:
"Due to the recently introduced new business class with full-flat-seats, there is a new gap between economy and business class. Therefore a product between those two would perfectly fit for business travelers who aren’t allowed by their companies to fly business class anymore."

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineconnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

It's not a bad idea, quite a few regular charter airlines have successfully introduced and marketed a similar product since they don't have a business class. It's all about balancing pricing with amenities provided. It would probably be appealing to travelers on flights over 8 hours long. Shouldn't be priced at more than 150% of the regular economy seat and provide a considerable wider seat, generous recline and extra pitch. I bet that if seat improvements would generously be implemented on this "economy plus", travelers would be happy to give up any other "current free perks" like food, drinks, kits, blankets, pillows, priority check-in and boarding  

User currently offlineBEG2IAH From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 972 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2968 times:
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Lack of E+ type seating makes me avoid LH. I had to beg a guy in front of me to not recline his seat. I felt for him, but I had to work during the whole 9-hour flight.


FAA killed the purpose of my old signature: Use of approved electronic devices is now permitted.
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2966 times:

Hallelujah! It can't come soon enough IMHO.

I think the SENs and HONs might hate it because it would probably mean that they get upgraded to premium economy instead of business, but for everyone who's willing to pay a reasonable premium for a slightly better seat, it could be a very good product.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineqf340500 From Singapore, joined Oct 2011, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2963 times:

Let it roll in, LH.... sooner rather than later! Have a look at the QF Premium Eco (still some 747s of QF at your home base, if you wanna have a look..) or at the new CX one and use that as a base! so much looking forward to it!

[Edited 2012-11-14 17:21:48]

User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 509 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

LH should look at TK and assess as to why they are having to cut back on Y+ seating on their 77Ws, especially when it was such a nice product.
They need to study routes carefully and introduce Premium Eco on certain widebodies first. Though I'm guessing this won't happen with their brand new 748i s, the premium eco makes great sense on these new jumbos, because they are fitted with too many flat beds.



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlinehuxrules From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2965 times:

I likes air france's "business light" class. A better seat with the same economy service. I believe that BA has something similar. I think the marketing is what fails both products. Only hardcore air nerds know about the product. Basically there are two kinds of business travelers - those who can still travel business and those who are forced to pick the cheapest flight on orbitz.

User currently offlinevhtje From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2966 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 2):
Lack of E+ type seating makes me avoid LH. I had to beg a guy in front of me to not recline his seat. I felt for him, but I had to work during the whole 9-hour flight.

That makes me very uneasy. Why should the person in front of you suffer discomfort because you had to work and wouldn't/couldn't fly business class? Whilst I sympathise with your position, I think asking the person in front not to recline during the entirety of a 9-hour flight is both highly presumptuous and extremely rude of you. Had I been the person in front, I would have apologised but politely declined your request.

Back on topic: I have read on these forums that Y+/W is highly profitable for BA. I must say as a frequent corporate traveller who is not allowed to fly J on journeys shorter than 12 hours, it means BA get my business whenever I have to go to the US. I usually pay around twice the discounted Y fare to get into the W cabin.

To my eyes, a lot of my fellow passengers in the W cabin on those trans-Atlantic flights are also on business.

If the story about it being so profitable for BA is true, one wonders why other airlines have waited so long to introduce it.


User currently offlinesmbukas From Lithuania, joined Feb 2009, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2963 times:

The main problem with Y+ for all carriers is the same: how to develop this product without moving passengers from Business to Premium Economy, only to benefit from passengers choice to move from Economy to Premium Economy. That is the challenge and I do not know which airline solved that successfully.

I think, TK Y+ product was too good to make sense for the airline.


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3362 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2962 times:

Quoting vhtje (Reply 7):
That makes me very uneasy. Why should the person in front of you suffer discomfort because you had to work and wouldn't/couldn't fly business class? Whilst I sympathise with your position, I think asking the person in front not to recline during the entirety of a 9-hour flight is both highly presumptuous and extremely rude of you. Had I been the person in front, I would have apologised but politely declined your request.

   If the passenger behind me had to work, that is exactly what business class is intended for.

Of course, I usually fly Spirit, so reclining seats aren't an issue!


User currently offlineflybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2960 times:

Don't understand why Premium Economy is marketable to business fliers who's companies won't pony up the dough for business class. Most, if not all those companies will only pay for the cheapest seat available, which is never premium economy anyway. Most often than not the cheapest seat will be the middle seat at the very back of the airplane. I think premium economy might actually siphon customers away from business class if anything.


"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlinecsavel From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1365 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2964 times:

Quoting flybyguy (Reply 10):
Don't understand why Premium Economy is marketable to business fliers who's companies won't pony up the dough for business class. Most, if not all those companies will only pay for the cheapest seat available, which is never premium economy anyway

True but on a long flight most companies have no problem with you paying for the difference between the cheap seat and Economy+. So flying on a 9+ hour flight, it is worth it for me to shell out $200 bucks r/t not to feel like crap. Actually my company might rethink that and pay for E+ for long flights. Over 6 hours, I think.



I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2965 times:

Quoting vhtje (Reply 7):
That makes me very uneasy. Why should the person in front of you suffer discomfort because you had to work and wouldn't/couldn't fly business class? Whilst I sympathise with your position, I think asking the person in front not to recline during the entirety of a 9-hour flight is both highly presumptuous and extremely rude of you

I have to agree with your comments.    I would recline my seat- if you had to work that desperately then you should be in Business Class. 9 hours is a long way to go in the upright position and must have been uncomfortable for the person ahead.

Getting back to Y+- it does very well for BA. I do feel that their product falls behind Virgin's, which to me is like flying on some airline's business class. The worst I ever experienced was United Economy Gold which offered just a bigger seat but I still had to shell out $5 for a glass of wine with my meal.. it didn't feel very premium.

Good luck to LH- it is good to give people choice



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineFerroviarius From Norway, joined Mar 2007, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

I like very much SAS Premium Economy version called "Economy Extra" or the "World Traveller Plus" by British Airways. Both offer considerably more space for the premium economy traveller as compared to the tourist. However, there are other carriers that do little more than just increase the space between the economy seat rows a little bit and call it premium economy.
I hope LH would follow the SAS / BA example.

Best,
Ferroviarius


User currently offlinedanielkandi From Denmark, joined Sep 2012, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2960 times:

They should look at TK's problems, and look at how BA seems to do good in Premium. At least everytime ive been on a longhaul, the premium has been packed. To keep people in business, they have to make it NOT as good as TK premium, as it is a brilliant alternative to business. Thank god tho, that they keep the premium on tk


Flown on : md80, md95, Avro RJ85/100, Q400, Atr42/72, a319/320/321, a332/a333, a343/346, b733 and up, 757, 747, 767 and
User currently offlinedanielkandi From Denmark, joined Sep 2012, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2960 times:

Quoting Ferroviarius (Reply 13):
I like very much SAS Premium Economy version called "Economy Extra"

overpriced. I dont know what they think we want, overall. But that aint it. Its plain daylight robbing a wallet.



Flown on : md80, md95, Avro RJ85/100, Q400, Atr42/72, a319/320/321, a332/a333, a343/346, b733 and up, 757, 747, 767 and
User currently offlinephotoshooter From Belgium, joined Feb 2010, 454 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2960 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SUPPORT

Though I'm not so keen on having more than 3 cabins in one aircraft, I think this will be a (great) success for Lufthansa.

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 2):
Lack of E+ type seating makes me avoid LH. I had to beg a guy in front of me to not recline his seat. I felt for him, but I had to work during the whole 9-hour flight.

Sorry to hear that but if I had to work in an aircraft for 9 hours, I would think about flying in Business class then. I'm aware that not every company has the ability to pay for expensive business class tickets but it's kind of a win-win situation for the company. The company will gain air miles which they can use for booking another business class ticket eventually. Also, I believe that the results will differ when working in Economy class for 9 hours or in Business class for 9 hours.

Just my two cents!

Cheers



'A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.' - Winston Churchill
User currently offlineAAIL86 From Finland, joined Feb 2011, 410 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 2):
Lack of E+ type seating makes me avoid LH. I had to beg a guy in front of me to not recline his seat. I felt for him, but I had to work during the whole 9-hour flight.

You would really ask someone in front of you on nine hour flight not to recline their seat so you'd have more room for your laptop?? I hope you shared some of the fruits of your labor with that person...

I'm 6"4 (1.93m) and I when I travel in economy I would never insist that the person in front of me not recline their seat, despite the implications for my knees....

Quoting flybyguy (Reply 10):
Don't understand why Premium Economy is marketable to business fliers who's companies won't pony up the dough for business class. Most, if not all those companies will only pay for the cheapest seat available, which is never premium economy anyway. Most often than not the cheapest seat will be the middle seat at the very back of the airplane. I think premium economy might actually siphon customers away from business class if anything.

It's quite simple, really. $3,000-$4500 for premium economy verses $8,000-$12,000 (both typical W and J fares bought with less then 14 day advance purchase) is a considerable savings while still allowing a higher degree of comfort....



Next
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1607 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2964 times:

Quoting csavel (Reply 11):
So flying on a 9+ hour flight, it is worth it for me to shell out $200 bucks r/t not to feel like crap.

My experience is that premium economy is not just $200 more than coach - it is often $1,000 or more dollars per round trip ticket on an international segment. The difference on Qantas LAX to SYD for example is over $1,300 - and that's on sale. If your traveling with your partner/spouse you've just upped the cost of the trip alone by $2,600. Perhaps the premium international carriers offer greater amenities, but most of the airlines I've checked out the seats are no wider than economy seats. As a flyer who pays my own fare, would I pay an extra $200 per flight? Yeah. Would I pay $600 - $1000 more per flight? I wish I had the money, but usually I don't.


User currently offlinevegas005 From Switzerland, joined Mar 2005, 320 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2964 times:

Considering their prices for coach are already at Premium Economy for other airlines, what do they think they can charge?

User currently offlineB777Neuss From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

Quoting photoshooter (Reply 16):
Though I'm not so keen on having more than 3 cabins in one aircraft, I think this will be a (great) success for Lufthansa.

Maybe they will offer their premium economy only on aircraft where there is no first anymore. A few weeks ago I read somewhere, could have been here, that they will extend their fleet with a two cabin layout. No first. So the A330 and A340 could be the aicrafts for premium economy, because B748 and A380 should keep first class.
But otherwise BA is successful with the four cabin layout.
So we'll have to wait and see.


User currently offlinehohd From United States of America, joined May 2008, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 18):
My experience is that premium economy is not just $200 more than coach - it is often $1,000 or more dollars per round trip ticket on an international segment. The difference on Qantas LAX to SYD for example is over $1,300 - and that's on sale. If your traveling with your partner/spouse you've just upped the cost of the trip alone by $2,600. Perhaps the premium international carriers offer greater amenities, but most of the airlines I've checked out the seats are no wider than economy seats. As a flyer who pays my own fare, would I pay an extra $200 per flight? Yeah. Would I pay $600 - $1000 more per flight? I wish I had the money, but usually I don't.

I had the same experience. On BA it is $800 more than the economy ticket, almost double (LHR-IAH). At that price, it is not worth it. But then in BA, the economy plus seats are far more comfortable than in UA E+, which is no more than a regular seat with more leg room. I need more elbow room too.


User currently offlineFerroviarius From Norway, joined Mar 2007, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

Quoting danielkandi (Reply 15):
Quoting Ferroviarius (Reply 13):
I like very much SAS Premium Economy version called "Economy Extra"

overpriced. I dont know what they think we want, overall. But that aint it. Its plain daylight robbing a wallet.

Well, it still is considerably cheaper than Business and you can select the Flex or FullFlex fare, at which the former still is not sooo expensive. Same with BA.

Best,
Ferroviarius


User currently offlinechopchop767 From Italy, joined Aug 2010, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2965 times:

Quoting raffik (Reply 12):
Getting back to Y+- it does very well for BA. I do feel that their product falls behind Virgin's, which to me is like flying on some airline's business class. The worst I ever experienced was United Economy Gold which offered just a bigger seat but I still had to shell out $5 for a glass of wine with my meal.. it didn't feel very premium.

To be fair, with United, you know exactly what you're getting: a seat w/ more legroom. I don't think it's really marketed as a premium experience, more as a reward for FF loyalty. As a Star Gold, it's nice to be able to pick a seat in E+ at the time of purchase. For what it's worth, I'd rather shell out the $$$ for a drink or two and have the extra leg room rather than less legroom and a complimentary drink.

I've flown across the Atlantic many times on LH and the lack of an E+ is pretty glaring; especially when almost all of their competitors have something between 'Y' and 'J'. I suspect LH could really have a nice product in their mini-cabins in Y if they offered an E+. That said, the difference between LH's old J class and their Y boils down to space, cutlery and flatware.

Still, hope this rumor is true!



this year: nap, lgw, fra, dub, fco, add, jib, muc, iad, sea, dca, bos, cdg, ist, bah, prg, ord, hsv, cmn
User currently offlineconnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2963 times:

Quoting danielkandi (Reply 14):
Thank god tho, that they keep the premium on tk

Accordingly to SeatGuru
Turkish Economy Comfort Class: pitch 46.0" width 19.5" 63 seats; 111 degree recline / Boeing 777-300 version 2
This aircraft will eventually be found on the following routes from Istanbul: Beijing, Sao Paulo, Toronto, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Los Angeles, Tokyo, Hong Kong, and New York.

These comfort seat measurements are highly enticing to me ... but I wonder how much extra $$$ is charged on a typical return fare?


25 flyingalex : I have enough experience with LH to suspect that the premium will be anything but reasonable.
26 gabrielchew : I'm surpsied LH hasn't gone down the Y+ route before....however, we all know LH isn't exactly an innovator in this regard. When were PTVs in Y finally
27 flyingalex : I think at last count 6 B744s are still without PTVs, some of which are due to leave the fleet in the not-too-distant future.
28 photoshooter : Sounds like a very good idea! Since LH first class tickets are really expensive, I don't think they can fill them up easily these days. So again, sma
29 max550 : I know of several businesses that offer their employees incentives for not traveling J. Book a lower fare class and they'll give you either a percent
30 danielkandi : If you look and what you get on SAS Eco Extra contra what you get on BA, TK, Virgin, whatever really, the seat is overpriced. Hard and annoying seats
31 LH4116 : Lufthansa already have a Premium Economy class product today. It's called Business Class… Honestly speaking I've never been a fan of the Y+ concept.
32 aloges : Oh dear... please do a bit of research before making that kind of post. Some airlines offer the food from C class, some offer increased luggage allow
33 qf340500 : i totally agree with you, aloges! to LH4116, please make some research, there are awsome Y+ product in the world, AWESOME, and far away from the simpl
34 Post contains images captainsloo : There have been a couple of times when I flew LHR-SIN where I didn't actually recline my seat at all - blame my slip disc and lousy back so I try to
35 BEG2IAH : I haven't checked this thread in a while. I had no idea I got flamed so bad. To respond to your comments below... I paid for the ticket, not my compan
36 AAIL86 : I'm not sure which airlines you've flown on, but my experience is quite different. BA's world traveller plus is very roomy and features a seat which
37 aloges : You shouldn't, as I see it most people skipped one important little word: That does make a difference; at least it certainly sounds better than the "
38 ytz : Honestly, TK could and probably should go to 8-abreast for Comfort Class and even pitch could be cut back a little to fit an extra row. That would ad
39 Post contains images BEG2IAH : Sorry, I was kinda blown away by the reactions. I agree reclining is paid for. On the other hand, I developed a habit to absolutely never recline. I
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