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Lufthansa Might Introduce A Premium Economy  
User currently offlineB777Neuss From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 155 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3013 times:

Lufthansa thinks about the introduction of a premium economy.

http://www.aero.de/news-16279/Luftha...conomy-Class-auf-Langstrecken.html

Only in german, sorry.

Summarized from the article:
"Due to the recently introduced new business class with full-flat-seats, there is a new gap between economy and business class. Therefore a product between those two would perfectly fit for business travelers who aren’t allowed by their companies to fly business class anymore."

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineconnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

It's not a bad idea, quite a few regular charter airlines have successfully introduced and marketed a similar product since they don't have a business class. It's all about balancing pricing with amenities provided. It would probably be appealing to travelers on flights over 8 hours long. Shouldn't be priced at more than 150% of the regular economy seat and provide a considerable wider seat, generous recline and extra pitch. I bet that if seat improvements would generously be implemented on this "economy plus", travelers would be happy to give up any other "current free perks" like food, drinks, kits, blankets, pillows, priority check-in and boarding  

User currently offlineBEG2IAH From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 973 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3024 times:
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Lack of E+ type seating makes me avoid LH. I had to beg a guy in front of me to not recline his seat. I felt for him, but I had to work during the whole 9-hour flight.


FAA killed the purpose of my old signature: Use of approved electronic devices is now permitted.
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8726 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3022 times:

Hallelujah! It can't come soon enough IMHO.

I think the SENs and HONs might hate it because it would probably mean that they get upgraded to premium economy instead of business, but for everyone who's willing to pay a reasonable premium for a slightly better seat, it could be a very good product.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineqf340500 From Singapore, joined Oct 2011, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3019 times:

Let it roll in, LH.... sooner rather than later! Have a look at the QF Premium Eco (still some 747s of QF at your home base, if you wanna have a look..) or at the new CX one and use that as a base! so much looking forward to it!

[Edited 2012-11-14 17:21:48]

User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

LH should look at TK and assess as to why they are having to cut back on Y+ seating on their 77Ws, especially when it was such a nice product.
They need to study routes carefully and introduce Premium Eco on certain widebodies first. Though I'm guessing this won't happen with their brand new 748i s, the premium eco makes great sense on these new jumbos, because they are fitted with too many flat beds.



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlinehuxrules From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3021 times:

I likes air france's "business light" class. A better seat with the same economy service. I believe that BA has something similar. I think the marketing is what fails both products. Only hardcore air nerds know about the product. Basically there are two kinds of business travelers - those who can still travel business and those who are forced to pick the cheapest flight on orbitz.

User currently offlinevhtje From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3022 times:
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Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 2):
Lack of E+ type seating makes me avoid LH. I had to beg a guy in front of me to not recline his seat. I felt for him, but I had to work during the whole 9-hour flight.

That makes me very uneasy. Why should the person in front of you suffer discomfort because you had to work and wouldn't/couldn't fly business class? Whilst I sympathise with your position, I think asking the person in front not to recline during the entirety of a 9-hour flight is both highly presumptuous and extremely rude of you. Had I been the person in front, I would have apologised but politely declined your request.

Back on topic: I have read on these forums that Y+/W is highly profitable for BA. I must say as a frequent corporate traveller who is not allowed to fly J on journeys shorter than 12 hours, it means BA get my business whenever I have to go to the US. I usually pay around twice the discounted Y fare to get into the W cabin.

To my eyes, a lot of my fellow passengers in the W cabin on those trans-Atlantic flights are also on business.

If the story about it being so profitable for BA is true, one wonders why other airlines have waited so long to introduce it.


User currently offlinesmbukas From Lithuania, joined Feb 2009, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3019 times:

The main problem with Y+ for all carriers is the same: how to develop this product without moving passengers from Business to Premium Economy, only to benefit from passengers choice to move from Economy to Premium Economy. That is the challenge and I do not know which airline solved that successfully.

I think, TK Y+ product was too good to make sense for the airline.


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3392 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

Quoting vhtje (Reply 7):
That makes me very uneasy. Why should the person in front of you suffer discomfort because you had to work and wouldn't/couldn't fly business class? Whilst I sympathise with your position, I think asking the person in front not to recline during the entirety of a 9-hour flight is both highly presumptuous and extremely rude of you. Had I been the person in front, I would have apologised but politely declined your request.

   If the passenger behind me had to work, that is exactly what business class is intended for.

Of course, I usually fly Spirit, so reclining seats aren't an issue!


User currently offlineflybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3016 times:

Don't understand why Premium Economy is marketable to business fliers who's companies won't pony up the dough for business class. Most, if not all those companies will only pay for the cheapest seat available, which is never premium economy anyway. Most often than not the cheapest seat will be the middle seat at the very back of the airplane. I think premium economy might actually siphon customers away from business class if anything.


"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlinecsavel From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1368 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3020 times:

Quoting flybyguy (Reply 10):
Don't understand why Premium Economy is marketable to business fliers who's companies won't pony up the dough for business class. Most, if not all those companies will only pay for the cheapest seat available, which is never premium economy anyway

True but on a long flight most companies have no problem with you paying for the difference between the cheap seat and Economy+. So flying on a 9+ hour flight, it is worth it for me to shell out $200 bucks r/t not to feel like crap. Actually my company might rethink that and pay for E+ for long flights. Over 6 hours, I think.



I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3021 times:

Quoting vhtje (Reply 7):
That makes me very uneasy. Why should the person in front of you suffer discomfort because you had to work and wouldn't/couldn't fly business class? Whilst I sympathise with your position, I think asking the person in front not to recline during the entirety of a 9-hour flight is both highly presumptuous and extremely rude of you

I have to agree with your comments.    I would recline my seat- if you had to work that desperately then you should be in Business Class. 9 hours is a long way to go in the upright position and must have been uncomfortable for the person ahead.

Getting back to Y+- it does very well for BA. I do feel that their product falls behind Virgin's, which to me is like flying on some airline's business class. The worst I ever experienced was United Economy Gold which offered just a bigger seat but I still had to shell out $5 for a glass of wine with my meal.. it didn't feel very premium.

Good luck to LH- it is good to give people choice



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineFerroviarius From Norway, joined Mar 2007, 234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

I like very much SAS Premium Economy version called "Economy Extra" or the "World Traveller Plus" by British Airways. Both offer considerably more space for the premium economy traveller as compared to the tourist. However, there are other carriers that do little more than just increase the space between the economy seat rows a little bit and call it premium economy.
I hope LH would follow the SAS / BA example.

Best,
Ferroviarius


User currently offlinedanielkandi From Denmark, joined Sep 2012, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3016 times:

They should look at TK's problems, and look at how BA seems to do good in Premium. At least everytime ive been on a longhaul, the premium has been packed. To keep people in business, they have to make it NOT as good as TK premium, as it is a brilliant alternative to business. Thank god tho, that they keep the premium on tk


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User currently offlinedanielkandi From Denmark, joined Sep 2012, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3016 times:

Quoting Ferroviarius (Reply 13):
I like very much SAS Premium Economy version called "Economy Extra"

overpriced. I dont know what they think we want, overall. But that aint it. Its plain daylight robbing a wallet.



Flown on : md80, md95, Avro RJ85/100, Q400, Atr42/72, a319/320/321, a332/a333, a343/346, b733 and up, 757, 747, 767 and
User currently offlinephotoshooter From Belgium, joined Feb 2010, 454 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3016 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SUPPORT

Though I'm not so keen on having more than 3 cabins in one aircraft, I think this will be a (great) success for Lufthansa.

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 2):
Lack of E+ type seating makes me avoid LH. I had to beg a guy in front of me to not recline his seat. I felt for him, but I had to work during the whole 9-hour flight.

Sorry to hear that but if I had to work in an aircraft for 9 hours, I would think about flying in Business class then. I'm aware that not every company has the ability to pay for expensive business class tickets but it's kind of a win-win situation for the company. The company will gain air miles which they can use for booking another business class ticket eventually. Also, I believe that the results will differ when working in Economy class for 9 hours or in Business class for 9 hours.

Just my two cents!

Cheers



'A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.' - Winston Churchill
User currently offlineAAIL86 From Finland, joined Feb 2011, 418 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 2):
Lack of E+ type seating makes me avoid LH. I had to beg a guy in front of me to not recline his seat. I felt for him, but I had to work during the whole 9-hour flight.

You would really ask someone in front of you on nine hour flight not to recline their seat so you'd have more room for your laptop?? I hope you shared some of the fruits of your labor with that person...

I'm 6"4 (1.93m) and I when I travel in economy I would never insist that the person in front of me not recline their seat, despite the implications for my knees....

Quoting flybyguy (Reply 10):
Don't understand why Premium Economy is marketable to business fliers who's companies won't pony up the dough for business class. Most, if not all those companies will only pay for the cheapest seat available, which is never premium economy anyway. Most often than not the cheapest seat will be the middle seat at the very back of the airplane. I think premium economy might actually siphon customers away from business class if anything.

It's quite simple, really. $3,000-$4500 for premium economy verses $8,000-$12,000 (both typical W and J fares bought with less then 14 day advance purchase) is a considerable savings while still allowing a higher degree of comfort....



Next
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3020 times:

Quoting csavel (Reply 11):
So flying on a 9+ hour flight, it is worth it for me to shell out $200 bucks r/t not to feel like crap.

My experience is that premium economy is not just $200 more than coach - it is often $1,000 or more dollars per round trip ticket on an international segment. The difference on Qantas LAX to SYD for example is over $1,300 - and that's on sale. If your traveling with your partner/spouse you've just upped the cost of the trip alone by $2,600. Perhaps the premium international carriers offer greater amenities, but most of the airlines I've checked out the seats are no wider than economy seats. As a flyer who pays my own fare, would I pay an extra $200 per flight? Yeah. Would I pay $600 - $1000 more per flight? I wish I had the money, but usually I don't.


User currently offlinevegas005 From Switzerland, joined Mar 2005, 322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3020 times:

Considering their prices for coach are already at Premium Economy for other airlines, what do they think they can charge?

User currently offlineB777Neuss From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

Quoting photoshooter (Reply 16):
Though I'm not so keen on having more than 3 cabins in one aircraft, I think this will be a (great) success for Lufthansa.

Maybe they will offer their premium economy only on aircraft where there is no first anymore. A few weeks ago I read somewhere, could have been here, that they will extend their fleet with a two cabin layout. No first. So the A330 and A340 could be the aicrafts for premium economy, because B748 and A380 should keep first class.
But otherwise BA is successful with the four cabin layout.
So we'll have to wait and see.


User currently offlinehohd From United States of America, joined May 2008, 434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 18):
My experience is that premium economy is not just $200 more than coach - it is often $1,000 or more dollars per round trip ticket on an international segment. The difference on Qantas LAX to SYD for example is over $1,300 - and that's on sale. If your traveling with your partner/spouse you've just upped the cost of the trip alone by $2,600. Perhaps the premium international carriers offer greater amenities, but most of the airlines I've checked out the seats are no wider than economy seats. As a flyer who pays my own fare, would I pay an extra $200 per flight? Yeah. Would I pay $600 - $1000 more per flight? I wish I had the money, but usually I don't.

I had the same experience. On BA it is $800 more than the economy ticket, almost double (LHR-IAH). At that price, it is not worth it. But then in BA, the economy plus seats are far more comfortable than in UA E+, which is no more than a regular seat with more leg room. I need more elbow room too.


User currently offlineFerroviarius From Norway, joined Mar 2007, 234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

Quoting danielkandi (Reply 15):
Quoting Ferroviarius (Reply 13):
I like very much SAS Premium Economy version called "Economy Extra"

overpriced. I dont know what they think we want, overall. But that aint it. Its plain daylight robbing a wallet.

Well, it still is considerably cheaper than Business and you can select the Flex or FullFlex fare, at which the former still is not sooo expensive. Same with BA.

Best,
Ferroviarius


User currently offlinechopchop767 From Italy, joined Aug 2010, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3021 times:

Quoting raffik (Reply 12):
Getting back to Y+- it does very well for BA. I do feel that their product falls behind Virgin's, which to me is like flying on some airline's business class. The worst I ever experienced was United Economy Gold which offered just a bigger seat but I still had to shell out $5 for a glass of wine with my meal.. it didn't feel very premium.

To be fair, with United, you know exactly what you're getting: a seat w/ more legroom. I don't think it's really marketed as a premium experience, more as a reward for FF loyalty. As a Star Gold, it's nice to be able to pick a seat in E+ at the time of purchase. For what it's worth, I'd rather shell out the $$$ for a drink or two and have the extra leg room rather than less legroom and a complimentary drink.

I've flown across the Atlantic many times on LH and the lack of an E+ is pretty glaring; especially when almost all of their competitors have something between 'Y' and 'J'. I suspect LH could really have a nice product in their mini-cabins in Y if they offered an E+. That said, the difference between LH's old J class and their Y boils down to space, cutlery and flatware.

Still, hope this rumor is true!



this year: nap, lgw, fra, dub, fco, add, jib, muc, iad, sea, dca, bos, cdg, ist, bah, prg, ord, hsv, cmn
User currently offlineconnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3019 times:

Quoting danielkandi (Reply 14):
Thank god tho, that they keep the premium on tk

Accordingly to SeatGuru
Turkish Economy Comfort Class: pitch 46.0" width 19.5" 63 seats; 111 degree recline / Boeing 777-300 version 2
This aircraft will eventually be found on the following routes from Istanbul: Beijing, Sao Paulo, Toronto, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Los Angeles, Tokyo, Hong Kong, and New York.

These comfort seat measurements are highly enticing to me ... but I wonder how much extra $$$ is charged on a typical return fare?


User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3161 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 3):
I think the SENs and HONs might hate it because it would probably mean that they get upgraded to premium economy instead of business, but for everyone who's willing to pay a reasonable premium for a slightly better seat, it could be a very good product.

I have enough experience with LH to suspect that the premium will be anything but reasonable.



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlinegabrielchew From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 3311 posts, RR: 12
Reply 26, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3173 times:

I'm surpsied LH hasn't gone down the Y+ route before....however, we all know LH isn't exactly an innovator in this regard. When were PTVs in Y finally rolled out fully? Last year? Or are there still some 744 without?

Quoting raffik (Reply 12):
9 hours is a long way to go in the upright position and must have been uncomfortable for the person ahead.

I flew back from Riyadh to London last weekend in Y, and the guy in front kept his seat upright the entire 8 hour night flight....odd.

Quoting vhtje (Reply 7):
If the story about it being so profitable for BA is true, one wonders why other airlines have waited so long to introduce it.

I've heard that the most profitable cabin for BA is Business, then Economy+, then First, then Economy. I've flown Y+ with BA a few times (MCT-LHR, LHR-SAN, MEX-LHR), and it is a very nice product that can certainly command a higher fare than Y. I prefer the catering (C standard) from NZ though.



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User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3239 times:

Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 26):
I'm surpsied LH hasn't gone down the Y+ route before....however, we all know LH isn't exactly an innovator in this regard. When were PTVs in Y finally rolled out fully? Last year? Or are there still some 744 without?

I think at last count 6 B744s are still without PTVs, some of which are due to leave the fleet in the not-too-distant future.



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlinephotoshooter From Belgium, joined Feb 2010, 454 posts, RR: 20
Reply 28, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3221 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SUPPORT

Quoting B777Neuss (Reply 20):
Maybe they will offer their premium economy only on aircraft where there is no first anymore. A few weeks ago I read somewhere, could have been here, that they will extend their fleet with a two cabin layout. No first. So the A330 and A340 could be the aircraft for premium economy, because B748 and A380 should keep first class.
But otherwise BA is successful with the four cabin layout.
So we'll have to wait and see.

Sounds like a very good idea! Since LH first class tickets are really expensive, I don't think they can fill them up easily these days. So again, smart move to kick FC out and create room for Y+ since many people are willing to pay some extra for an upgrade to Y+.

Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 26):
I flew back from Riyadh to London last weekend in Y, and the guy in front kept his seat upright the entire 8 hour night flight....odd.

Gabriel, consider yourself lucky! Perhaps he didn't know he could recline his seat haha! Good to hear you had a nice flight.

Cheers



'A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.' - Winston Churchill
User currently offlinemax550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3229 times:

Quoting huxrules (Reply 6):
Basically there are two kinds of business travelers - those who can still travel business and those who are forced to pick the cheapest flight on orbitz.

I know of several businesses that offer their employees incentives for not traveling J. Book a lower fare class and they'll give you either a percentage of the difference or a set dollar amount back. I have no idea how widespread that type of setup is but it definitely increases the popularity of Y+.


User currently offlinedanielkandi From Denmark, joined Sep 2012, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3236 times:

Quoting Ferroviarius (Reply 22):
Well, it still is considerably cheaper than Business and you can select the Flex or FullFlex fare, at which the former still is not sooo expensive. Same with BA.

If you look and what you get on SAS Eco Extra contra what you get on BA, TK, Virgin, whatever really, the seat is overpriced. Hard and annoying seats...



Flown on : md80, md95, Avro RJ85/100, Q400, Atr42/72, a319/320/321, a332/a333, a343/346, b733 and up, 757, 747, 767 and
User currently offlineLH4116 From Sweden, joined Aug 2007, 1714 posts, RR: 18
Reply 31, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3264 times:

Lufthansa already have a Premium Economy class product today. It's called Business Class… Honestly speaking I've never been a fan of the Y+ concept. It's just a merely enhanced Economy Class seat with a legrest that serves no purpose, and a fibre optic reading light to give the faux impression of Business Class. Same food as Y, same luggage and no lounge access, except that the seats will be priced 3x times of a regular Y ticket.

If your company books you into the flex classes in Y, the Y+ might be a nice bonus. But for the leisure traveler looking to have some extra comfort on his flight (which Y+ strangely is also targeted towards) it's an absolute robbery!

Quoting danielkandi (Reply 15):
overpriced. I dont know what they think we want, overall. But that aint it. Its plain daylight robbing a wallet.

I can only agree!



SAS Plus is Business Class made faux!
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8726 posts, RR: 43
Reply 32, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3253 times:

Quoting LH4116 (Reply 31):
It's just a merely enhanced Economy Class seat with a legrest that serves no purpose, and a fibre optic reading light to give the faux impression of Business Class. Same food as Y, same luggage and no lounge access, except that the seats will be priced 3x times of a regular Y ticket.

Oh dear... please do a bit of research before making that kind of post. Some airlines offer the food from C class, some offer increased luggage allowances, some offer seats that would be called business class by other airlines, some offer $99 upgrades during check-in and so on. "Premium economy" is one of the most poorly defined brands that I know, with huge differences even between the aircraft types of an individual airline - Air New Zealand, for example.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineqf340500 From Singapore, joined Oct 2011, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3219 times:

i totally agree with you, aloges!

to LH4116, please make some research, there are awsome Y+ product in the world, AWESOME, and far away from the simple assumption you make


User currently offlinecaptainsloo From Singapore, joined Dec 2011, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 3189 times:

Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 26):
I flew back from Riyadh to London last weekend in Y, and the guy in front kept his seat upright the entire 8 hour night flight....odd.

There have been a couple of times when I flew LHR-SIN where I didn't actually recline my seat at all - blame my slip disc and lousy back so I try to sit upright for hours. It was painful, but at least my tailbone doesn't ache too much at the end of the flight

Or does anyone have any helpful advice!  


User currently offlineBEG2IAH From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 973 posts, RR: 18
Reply 35, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3135 times:
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I haven't checked this thread in a while. I had no idea I got flamed so bad. To respond to your comments below... I paid for the ticket, not my company (which wouldn't pay for business class anyway, i.e., it's actually the client who pays not the company). I was on vacation, but was asked to work on something the very last minute, lterally before I boarded the aircraft. I must live in a very different world from you guys. I mean if you can just tell your company and bosses to shove it and not work. Good for you...

Quoting vhtje (Reply 7):
That makes me very uneasy. Why should the person in front of you suffer discomfort because you had to work and wouldn't/couldn't fly business class? Whilst I sympathise with your position, I think asking the person in front not to recline during the entirety of a 9-hour flight is both highly presumptuous and extremely rude of you. Had I been the person in front, I would have apologised but politely declined your request.

He had an option to not recline. I would've understood him completely. I talked to him during and after the flight and apologized to him several times. This is why I am not flying LH anymore, but UA. Even when I fly for my own sake I don't wanna have someone's head right in front of my face.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 9):
If the passenger behind me had to work, that is exactly what business class is intended for.

Yes, unless you fork it out of your pocket and work on vacation time.

Quoting flybyguy (Reply 10):
Don't understand why Premium Economy is marketable to business fliers who's companies won't pony up the dough for business class. Most, if not all those companies will only pay for the cheapest seat available, which is never premium economy anyway. Most often than not the cheapest seat will be the middle seat at the very back of the airplane. I think premium economy might actually siphon customers away from business class if anything.

Companies don't end up paying for premium economy. They know you have your status and you would sit in E+ anyway.

Quoting raffik (Reply 12):
I have to agree with your comments. I would recline my seat- if you had to work that desperately then you should be in Business Class. 9 hours is a long way to go in the upright position and must have been uncomfortable for the person ahead.

Again, he could've done it. Actually he reclined a few inches so I could still open my laptop and could've gotten some sleep. And there was a baby crying for 7 out of 9 hours, so almost no recline wasn't his biggest problem. The girl sitting next to him reclined her seat and kept it during meal time and even FA had to tell her to pull her seat up so this woman sitting next to me could see her meal.

Quoting photoshooter (Reply 16):
Sorry to hear that but if I had to work in an aircraft for 9 hours, I would think about flying in Business class then. I'm aware that not every company has the ability to pay for expensive business class tickets but it's kind of a win-win situation for the company. The company will gain air miles which they can use for booking another business class ticket eventually. Also, I believe that the results will differ when working in Economy class for 9 hours or in Business class for 9 hours.

I wish... Although I keep the miles from flying, not my company. And the results were good, wouldn't've been better if I had been in business. I would've probably been asleep.

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 17):
You would really ask someone in front of you on nine hour flight not to recline their seat so you'd have more room for your laptop?? I hope you shared some of the fruits of your labor with that person...

I'm 6"4 (1.93m) and I when I travel in economy I would never insist that the person in front of me not recline their seat, despite the implications for my knees....

Sorry I'm such a monster. This was the only time I did it and this is exactly why LH will not see me again before they do something about premium seats.

After reading all these comments I feel like crap.



FAA killed the purpose of my old signature: Use of approved electronic devices is now permitted.
User currently offlineAAIL86 From Finland, joined Feb 2011, 418 posts, RR: 3
Reply 36, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2912 times:

Quoting LH4116 (Reply 31):
Lufthansa already have a Premium Economy class product today. It's called Business Class… Honestly speaking I've never been a fan of the Y+ concept. It's just a merely enhanced Economy Class seat with a legrest that serves no purpose, and a fibre optic reading light to give the faux impression of Business Class. Same food as Y, same luggage and no lounge access, except that the seats will be priced 3x times of a regular Y ticket.

If your company books you into the flex classes in Y, the Y+ might be a nice bonus. But for the leisure traveler looking to have some extra comfort on his flight (which Y+ strangely is also targeted towards) it's an absolute robbery!

I'm not sure which airlines you've flown on, but my experience is quite different. BA's world traveller plus is very roomy and features a seat which is quite comfortable - and nicer then many airlines short/mid-range J/F seats. AF, QF and NZ (among others) also have good Y+ offerings.
Working as a corporate travel agent I see awesome fares on Y+ all the time - BA and AF frequently offer round trips between the USA and Europe for less then $2000 round trip. In October I flew BA in Y+ DFW-PRG / AMS-DFW via LHR and paid $1,247 round trip including tax.

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 35):
Sorry I'm such a monster. This was the only time I did it and this is exactly why LH will not see me again before they do something about premium seats.

Well I wouldn't go so far as to say that and didn't think it when posting. However (in my opinion), the ability to recline one's seat a bit is an implied (yes, I understand that some seats do not recline at all - but that's about 5% or less of total seats) privilege of purchasing a ticket and makes up part of the space which each person it "entitled" to ...



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User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8726 posts, RR: 43
Reply 37, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2831 times:

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 35):
After reading all these comments I feel like crap.

You shouldn't, as I see it most people skipped one important little word:

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 2):
I had to beg a guy in front of me to not recline his seat.

That does make a difference; at least it certainly sounds better than the "bully them out of using the recline" stuff we've heard from others.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 2071 posts, RR: 24
Reply 38, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2810 times:



Quoting connector4you (Reply 24):
Turkish Economy Comfort Class: pitch 46.0" width 19.5" 111 degree recline /63 seats/ Boeing 777-300 version 2

Honestly, TK could and probably should go to 8-abreast for Comfort Class and even pitch could be cut back a little to fit an extra row. That would add an extra 17 seats in this cabin. The service is about right.

[Edited 2012-11-21 16:26:41]

User currently offlineBEG2IAH From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 973 posts, RR: 18
Reply 39, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2622 times:
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Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 36):
Well I wouldn't go so far as to say that and didn't think it when posting. However (in my opinion), the ability to recline one's seat a bit is an implied (yes, I understand that some seats do not recline at all - but that's about 5% or less of total seats) privilege of purchasing a ticket and makes up part of the space which each person it "entitled" to ...

Sorry, I was kinda blown away by the reactions. I agree reclining is paid for. On the other hand, I developed a habit to absolutely never recline. I got quite a few thanks from people who worked on their computers. I guess I can feel their pain.

Quoting aloges (Reply 37):
I see it most people skipped one important little word:

Thanks.   I thought I must be the worst frequent traveller in the history of this industry. Now I feel a bit better. And, the guy who was so kind to recline just a tad was German.  



FAA killed the purpose of my old signature: Use of approved electronic devices is now permitted.
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