airportugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3065 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1366 times:
That's a heck of a distinction...considering they do it without having the largest fleet in the world, right?
raffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1646 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1367 times:
That's great news! Do you think they will become the new Dubai? The mass of orders and new routes is certainly a sign that Turkey's economy is on the up?!
Tobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 643 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1369 times:
"I would like to challenge this claim. According to Wikipedia, TK serves destinations in 95 countries (including disputed Kosovo and Northern Cyprus), but LH offers flights to 116 souvereign states."
Sorry, I have been to quick, the list included discontinued destinations. Let me recalculate before I make another claim.
[Edited 2012-11-15 04:13:22]
PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
Quokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1372 times:
Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 7): I would have thought EK would be ahead of TK for countrys served.
No oddly enough. Despite the appearance of bowling the world over, Emirates offer flights to 127 destinations in 74 countries, with four more destinations to be commenced in the next few months. That will add two countries to their list as two destinations are in countries already served.
Tobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 643 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1374 times:
Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 6): "I would like to challenge this claim. According to Wikipedia, TK serves destinations in 95 countries (including disputed Kosovo and Northern Cyprus), but LH offers flights to 116 souvereign states."
Sorry, I have been to quick, the list included discontinued destinations. Let me recalculate before I make another claim.
Ok, so here it goes:
TK serves 93 states (incl. Kosovo and Northern Cyprus)
"pure LH" (includes Regionals, but not OS, LX) serves 84 countries.
edit: I'd call it a tie between LH and TK. If you take OS and LX into account, it brings another 8 destinations, so the new total is 92. Most people would agree that Northern Cyprus is not a souvereign state, so it is indeed a draw.
But still, the TK network is impressive.
[Edited 2012-11-15 04:49:03]
PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
Flyingsottsman From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 396 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1366 times:
Quoting Quokkas (Reply 8): No oddly enough. Despite the appearance of bowling the world over, Emirates offer flights to 127 destinations in 74 countries, with four more destinations to be commenced in the next few months. That will add two countries to their list as two destinations are in countries already served.
Ok gee I didnt know that. Seems to me that every airport you go in the world you see a EK tail. I wounder if TK will come down to Australia? I thought I may have read on here a year or two ago that TK was looking at SYD I wounder if they are still playing with that idea and could they come down here to MEL, big Turkish populations in bosth Sydney and Melbourne.
leftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 654 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1366 times:
Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 7): I would have thought EK would be ahead of TK for countrys served.
Despite its size in ASKs - thanks mainly to an all widebody fleet and almost entirely medium to long haul operation - EK is not as big as some European or US airlines in many aspects. That includes fleet size, no of destinations, no of countries, no of daily flights.
Anyway, I would rather see a better coverage of some larger countries (China, India, Brazil, USA, Canada) than more countries. Thankfully that is on the way - with announcements for USA & Canada and plans for India and China.
leftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 654 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1366 times:
Quoting Ben175 (Reply 12): IST-PER-SYD/MEL (we can dream!)
That routing would get the distinction of the being the first to be closed in over a decade. Seriously, not enough pax to take a plane to Australia from Turkey. And connecting pax would rather fly QF/EK/EY/TG/SQ/CX...
between LH and TK? No tie!! It's only a tie when you compare LH group as whole and TK. But doing it all alone is a better achievement than doing the same with multiple airlines
"The future is in the skies. For any nation that cannot defend its skies will never be confident of its future." Atatürk
Tobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 643 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1366 times:
Quoting TK1244 (Reply 14): between LH and TK? No tie!! It's only a tie when you compare LH group as whole and TK. But doing it all alone is a better achievement than doing the same with multiple airlines
Well, my argument here is that the reason why LH does not serve Macedonia, Montenegro, Slovakia or Armenia is because OS does. These destinations fit into the VIE hub, which -- being honest -- is also an LH hub.
But anyway, as stated above: TK offers an impressive network.
PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5188 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1369 times:
No tie, only a single airline serving all destinations on its on is what counts here, however I wonder about TK expansion but good luck to them, I guess they know what they are doing.
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15728 posts, RR: 47 Reply 17, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1366 times:
Congrats I guess, although it's pretty clear TK was building its network to hit this number, rather than build it rationally.
Quoting 777way (Reply 16): I guess they know what they are doing.
They're just adding anything and everything. NIMIST? Please. NKCIST? Why not.
ASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 386 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1365 times:
Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 10): Seems to me that every airport you go in the world you see a EK tail.
I think that's because EK focuses on the big hubs and trunk routes. And that's where most of us fly through or see pictures in aviation articles etc. In that sense, EK widebodies are indeed everywhere.
But if you go out of the way and to the regional and secondary cities, there will be an entirely different picture. For example, take Central Asia. You could hardly find an EK or QR destination there ... but the region is spectacularly covered by TK. Similarly, for eastern Europe or the Balkans ... EK serves only a few. Whereas, QR and TK flies their narrow bodies to almost every capital city in that region.
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17): Congrats I guess, although it's pretty clear TK was building its network to hit this number, rather than build it rationally.
It seems so ... you are right But some of them are indeed great destinations as Africa is opening up more and more. TK's Africa map is already impressive and will be hard to match by EK ... QR is following a similar model in Eastern Africa, but not sure how much they can cover in the western part with their narrow bodies.
Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 9): edit: I'd call it a tie between LH and TK. If you take OS and LX into account, it brings another 8 destinations, so the new total is 92. Most people would agree that Northern Cyprus is not a souvereign state, so it is indeed a draw.
Maybe that's why Merkel and Erdogan decided to call it a draw and suggest "joint management" ... cause they are in a stalemate
Yakamoz From Switzerland, joined Nov 2012, 67 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 1364 times:
I study the winter flightplan of THY.
I've counted 86 countries and 193 cities.
There are also 13 cities in US which are flown with codeshare.
Also, there are inactive 1 country and 8 cities.
So totally, there are 87 countries and 214 cities served.
danielkandi From Denmark, joined Sep 2012, 61 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1357 times:
Funny how popular they make themselves out to be. But a s**teload of really nasty replies are on their fb everyday. More so than KLM's and other popular FB airlines... I just wonder, why they deliver such a fair product inflight, but seem to leave the administrative side to such an amateur-like level.
Listen to their telephone centre in Istanbul. The waitinglines are horrible, the english is with heavy accent (instead of having it done in a studio by pro's, seems hobo-like for such a huge airlines) and it takes you AGES to actually get to some personell unless u wish to buy a flight and ONLY that... Luckily for me, i've been fortunate to avoid problems with my flights with them.
Ironically, I just raked in over the 40000+ miles with them, gold status they say. So I wonder what awaits me servicewise. I hope they do improve on the "help"side of things. I cant complain except for a long wait and no reply from them on the phone today. But seems they don't really care about the individuals outside miles&smiles on their FB. They just post a turkish phonenumber for their helpline and tell you to call that. On delta, klm, the likes, you get a proper response to even the slightest request, and sometimes to the big and hard ones too... Must say i've enjoyed their service inflight though! Plus the amazing food!
Flown on : md80, md95, Avro RJ85/100, Q400, Atr42/72, a319/320/321, a332/a333, a343/346, b733 and up, 757, 747, 767 and
Quokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (6 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 1356 times:
Quoting ASA (Reply 18): take Central Asia. You could hardly find an EK or QR destination there ... but the region is spectacularly covered by TK. Similarly, for eastern Europe or the Balkans .
I always wondered about that. Why did Dubai decide on setting up flydubai, which has concentrated on those areas, rather than just send EK? While there is some overlap in the Middle East and South Asia, flydubai serve 22 destinations in 10 countries that EK don't.
EK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 3910 posts, RR: 4 Reply 23, posted (6 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 1358 times:
Quoting CXfirst (Reply 2): I'm just waiting for Australia (particularly PER), and then I will be happy!
I read in another thread that Australia is no longer on TKs cards due to the QF/EK tie up... Apparently TK is working on establishing their presence in Australia utilizing Star* member TG...
lewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3448 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (6 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 1358 times:
Quoting Quokkas (Reply 22): Quoting ASA (Reply 18):
take Central Asia. You could hardly find an EK or QR destination there ... but the region is spectacularly covered by TK. Similarly, for eastern Europe or the Balkans .
I always wondered about that. Why did Dubai decide on setting up flydubai, which has concentrated on those areas, rather than just send EK? While there is some overlap in the Middle East and South Asia, flydubai serve 22 destinations in 10 countries that EK don't.
TK has very good coverage in the area as a lot of those Central Asian countries have historical and cultural links to Turkey - or the other way around. I doubt the likes of EK or QR would have been as successful in the region, apart from a couple of destinations here and there. The location of the IST hub is also ideal for attracting passengers from the Balkans (where local air service is regional at best) and E Europe.
JOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 425 posts, RR: 1 Reply 25, posted (6 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 1650 times:
Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 13): And connecting pax would rather fly QF/EK/EY/TG/SQ/CX...
Or for that matter AI's soon to come LHR/CDG/FRA-DEL-MEL/SYD
But why not?
TK could always do a Kangaroo routing because who wouldn't like to hop over in IST for half a day before going onwards? Surely is hell lot better than DXB/DOH - More Euro connections, huge tourist-driven country.
In short Aussies going to Europe are better off going via IST than elsewhere.
[Edited 2012-11-15 19:01:17]
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
JU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6 Reply 26, posted (6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 1647 times:
Actually you a
Quoting ASA (Reply 18): But if you go out of the way and to the regional and secondary cities, there will be an entirely different picture. For example, take Central Asia. You could hardly find an EK or QR destination there ... but the region is spectacularly covered by TK. Similarly, for eastern Europe or the Balkans ... EK serves only a few. Whereas, QR and TK flies their narrow bodies to almost every capital city in that region.
Seems to me like the region is well covered by the Middle Eastern carriers. I added flydubai because you can connect onto Emirates' flights with them in Dubai so it is kind of the same.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22041 posts, RR: 51 Reply 27, posted (6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 1809 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17): Congrats I guess, although it's pretty clear TK was building its network to hit this number, rather than build it rationally.
While I see the TK management enjoying making broad marketing statements, I don't believe the network folks behind the scenes are dumb nor irrational. Sure things like the recent massive Africa expansion might be risky, but its rewards could be high as well.
For the most part I believe they view the network holistically these days, and don't rely on individual segment performance as the measuring stick, but view the macro contribution each spoke can generate to the greater airline.
Quoting danielkandi (Reply 20): Funny how popular they make themselves out to be. But a s**teload of really nasty replies are on their fb everyday.
Like with everything you will have the detractors and lovers. TK imo has been rather weak player in the social media scene and frankly does not police or manage things like FB that well. I think at the end of the day, the number of positive interactions with TK far outweighs the negatives for the travelling public.
Quoting JU068 (Reply 26): How is eastern Europe not covered?
One of the huge advantages TK has it ability to offer multiple daily frequencies. While Middle-East players can offer a single daily flight to many destinations, TK can offer many more thanks to the advantage of being at the door step of Europe.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Why did you leave out former USSR east European countries? and Greece is Southern Europe not Eastern or have the economic crisis changed their geography now?
Well, add Tirana, Minsk, Sarajevo, Pristina, Chisinau, Podgorica, Thessaloniki (since you've included Athens), Dnipropetrovsk, Donetsk, Kiev, Lviv, Odessa, Simferopol for TK. And not counting Russia or the Caucasian republics for that matter. QR has 7 destinations, EK 3, EY just 1. FZ has 3 destinations. I count 22 for TK.
Tupolev160 From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 318 posts, RR: 1 Reply 32, posted (6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 1718 times:
Besides flyDubai, Air Arabia flies to 4 cities in Ukraine as well, which is quite impressive. TK has tried to expand agressively into every major city in the CIS but given the competition on one hand and the customers loyalty to already present airlines on the other, i think they're bleeding heavily on those routes. Would be interesting to open a separate thread and compare the growth strategies of SU vs. TK.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
For Africa, it lists 21: Algeria, Egypt, Ethiopia, Ghana, Morocco, Nigeria, South Africa, Sudan, Tunisia, DR Congo, Djibouti, Côte d'Ivoire, Kenya (Mombasa doesn't matter, as Nairobi is served), Lybia, Mauritania, Rwanda, Senegal, Somalia, Tanzania, Uganda, Yemen
Then, there are the following 6 countries, of which the continent they should be counted for or their independence are disputed: Turkey, Russia, Georgia, Azerbaidjan, Northern Cyprus, Kosovo
For Asia, this leaves the following 30 countries: Bahrain, China, Hongkong, India, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Israel, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Tadjikistan, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, South Korea, Thailand, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Kyrgystan, Mongolia, Pakistan, Uzbekistan
And for 31 Europe: Albania, Austria, Belarus, Belgium, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Rep., Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Moldova, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Serbia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Ukraine, Great Britain, Macedonia, Montenegro, Slovenia
Plus 3 from the Americas (USA, Canada, Brazil) makes a grand total of 90 countries served by TK, in case Northern Cyprus is not counted. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
[Edited 2012-11-16 07:28:31]
PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
leftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 654 posts, RR: 1 Reply 35, posted (6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 1724 times:
Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 33): For Africa, it lists 21: Algeria, Egypt, Ethiopia, Ghana, Morocco, Nigeria, South Africa, Sudan, Tunisia, DR Congo, Djibouti, Côte d'Ivoire, Kenya (Mombasa doesn't matter, as Nairobi is served), Lybia, Mauritania, Rwanda, Senegal, Somalia, Tanzania, Uganda, Yemen
Maldives, Niger and Burkina Faso will be joining that in less than a month.
Lithuania, Estonia, Eritrea, Cameroon, Gabon, Angola, Luxembourg, Argentina, Philippines, Malta, Cuba, Venezuela, Mexico also have been announced at one time or another. I am sure we will be seeing at least half of those by next summer.
Yakamoz From Switzerland, joined Nov 2012, 67 posts, RR: 0 Reply 36, posted (6 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 1718 times:
Hello Tobias
Thanks for the list and the great link.
I've found my failure in my list. I put Hong Kong as a city of China, not an own country. Sorry..
So then i have also 90 countries and 205 cities.
Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 33): For Africa, it lists 21: Algeria, Egypt, Ethiopia, Ghana, Morocco, Nigeria, South Africa, Sudan, Tunisia, DR Congo, Djibouti, Côte d'Ivoire, Kenya (Mombasa doesn't matter, as Nairobi is served), Lybia, Mauritania, Rwanda, Senegal, Somalia, Tanzania, Uganda, Yemen
Yemen is in Asia i think. And i put Maldives also to Asia.
I've never found the flights to Côte d'Ivoire and Somalia. Are they seasonal (so just summer)?
Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 33): For Asia, this leaves the following 30 countries: Bahrain, China, Hongkong, India, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Israel, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Tadjikistan, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, South Korea, Thailand, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Kyrgystan, Mongolia, Pakistan, Uzbekistan
Is Ulanbatoor, Mongolia flown seasonal?
For Europe there is also Malta and Ireland.
In the end: When we put Syria, Mongolia, Somalia and Côte d'Ivoire to the list, then there are 94 countries and 210 destinations, out of them, 205 destinations and 90 countries.
While HKSAR and Macau SAR do not have independent legal personalities, and are therefore not a state for the purposes of international law, they are administratively independent, with their own bilaterals, immigration/customs etc.
If one wanted to be picky, then Taiwan/Republic of China isn't a country either.
JU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6 Reply 42, posted (6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1623 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 27): One of the huge advantages TK has it ability to offer multiple daily frequencies. While Middle-East players can offer a single daily flight to many destinations, TK can offer many more thanks to the advantage of being at the door step of Europe.
Yes but I was merely pointing out that Middle Eastern carriers are present in the region, as some people claimed otherwise.
Quoting 777way (Reply 28): Why did you leave out former USSR east European countries? and Greece is Southern Europe not Eastern or have the economic crisis changed their geography now?
Please go and read what ASA wrote and then re-read my comment. He mentioned the Balkans, and Greece is part of the peninsula so of course I am going to mention it. however, I fail to see how the economic crisis is relevant to geography here.
Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 29): Well, add Tirana, Minsk, Sarajevo, Pristina, Chisinau, Podgorica, Thessaloniki (since you've included Athens), Dnipropetrovsk, Donetsk, Kiev, Lviv, Odessa, Simferopol for TK. And not counting Russia or the Caucasian republics for that matter. QR has 7 destinations, EK 3, EY just 1. FZ has 3 destinations. I count 22 for TK.
I don't see how relevant your comment is in relation to the presence of Middle Eastern carriers in that particular region. Unless it is one of those my horse is bigger than your horse moments.
And anyway, most of the destinations you have mentioned see competition from Middle Eastern carriers.
ASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 386 posts, RR: 2 Reply 43, posted (6 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1606 times:
Quoting JU068 (Reply 42): Yes but I was merely pointing out that Middle Eastern carriers are present in the region, as some people claimed otherwise.
Quoting JU068 (Reply 42): Please go and read what ASA wrote and then re-read my comment. He mentioned the Balkans, and Greece is part of the peninsula so of course I am going to mention it. however, I fail to see how the economic crisis is relevant to geography here.
I understand your point. I actually didn't say middle eastern carriers ... I meant EK specifically.
I think i was replying to another poster's (Flyingsottsman) comments about the perception that you see EK tails everywhere more than others. So I was saying that in Central Asia ... it's TK tails everywhere. And for Balkans, you see both Turkish AND Qatar tails. They have the region well-covered with their narrowbodies ... whereas EK seems to cover few capital cities (as you pointed out) with widebodies.
Basically, I find TK and QR's models of wide + narrow combinations more suited for expansion and long term. EK has the hubs and trunk routes well covered - but I wonder if they can throw A332s or B777s everywhere (secondary or regional destinations) once they have flooded the major airports with A380s.
But, as you mentioned, EK may not be everywhere. Now that they have 'flydubai' ... they are using that for covering secondary cities. So in a sense, they WILL be everywhere!
Haha yes! But if you think about it, this co-operation between flydubai and Emirates is way wiser than if Emirates started flying their own narrow-body metal. I am sure that flydubai has a much lighter cost structure which makes it far more competitive within this market.
However, their problem is (for now) that they can't launch flights beyond Belgrade due to crew working hours.
Argentina From Argentina, joined Aug 2000, 372 posts, RR: 13 Reply 45, posted (6 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1519 times:
And now Argentina has joined the list
From airlineroute.net
Turkish Airlines to Start Buenos Aires Operation from Dec 2012
Update at 0840GMT 19NOV12
Turkish Airlines starting 11DEC12 is extending its 4 weekly Istanbul – Sao Paulo operation to Buenos Aires, on board Boeing 777-300ER aircraft. With the service extension, Sao Paulo – Istanbul sector sees operational schedule changes, which has been reflected in the GDS since July 2012. However, reservation for Sao Paulo – Buenos Aires sector did not appear until Saturday 17NOV12.
Yakamoz From Switzerland, joined Nov 2012, 67 posts, RR: 0 Reply 46, posted (6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1497 times:
To summarise the next starts:
24.11.2012 Istanbul - Male
04.12.2012 Istanbul - Kilimanjaro - Mombasa
11.12.2012 Istanbul - Sao Paulo - BUENOS AIRES
15.12.2012 Istanbul - Ouagadougou - Niamey
24.11.2012 Istanbul - Male
04.12.2012 Istanbul - Kilimanjaro - Mombasa
11.12.2012 Istanbul - Sao Paulo - BUENOS AIRES
15.12.2012 Istanbul - Ouagadougou - Niamey
We can expect more short haul additions after March 2013 with summer timetable - Constanta, Krakow, Malta, Marseille, Asmara, Luxembourg, Tallinn, Vilnius, Kermanshah, Esfahan maybe?
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15728 posts, RR: 47 Reply 49, posted (6 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1462 times:
Quoting 777way (Reply 48): Why dont TK serve secondary cities in Central Asia Khujand, Bukhara, Samarkand, Osh, Aktau, Atyrau, Aktobe are a few that see international carriers.
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15728 posts, RR: 47 Reply 51, posted (6 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1448 times:
Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 50):
It is very well suited for fitting this route to Far-East and Middle East schedule.
Who in their right mind would take a 0500 departure to the Far East when they could take CA at 1900, arriving in PEK at 0600, or any of the EU carriers in the evening, connecting to an afternoon flight to Asia the following day. This schedule is terrible for the local market, and you lose 90% of the connectivity in IST anyway, both directions.
I should have said "most'; it's not an exact number--a late night IST departure would allow most of the TK network to connect to ISTGRU, plus be much more advantageous for the local market. The current 0920 departure means TK only gets whatever arrives between ~0500 and 0820, plus is terrible for the local market. The return has the same issue.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22041 posts, RR: 51 Reply 56, posted (6 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1397 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 54): . The current 0920 departure means TK only gets whatever arrives between ~0500 and 0820, plus is terrible for the local market.
I think you are missing the point. Early AM departure is on purpose - its designed for connections quite well. Today GRU already departs at 0930.
And no, 0920 is not bad for local market. TK has tons of 7am onwards departures at IST. Matter of fact their first JFK flight even departs at 0725.
The 0920 departure will allow for connections from entire Mid East, much of the CIS, Africa, South Asia, along with Far East with the exception of NRT.
The 2125 return will allow reverse connections to most everything Eastward except India/Pakistan and NRT.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Turkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 429 posts, RR: 0 Reply 57, posted (6 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1392 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 54): I should have said "most'; it's not an exact number--a late night IST departure would allow most of the TK network to connect to ISTGRU, plus be much more advantageous for the local market. The current 0920 departure means TK only gets whatever arrives between ~0500 and 0820, plus is terrible for the local market. The return has the same issue.
The reason why i asked for the number is that i believe you have not taken into account direction of connection. No one will fly from CDG to GRU via IST. The main market for GRU is meant to be Middle East and Far East. And here connectivity is very good.
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15728 posts, RR: 47 Reply 60, posted (6 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1389 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 56): And no, 0920 is not bad for local market
The 0920 is not really the concern, although it's still suboptimal for the local market; it's the 0500 daylight Eastbound. Where on earth does that actually work? AF can't even make a daylight NYCCDG work at a reasonable time.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 56): Early AM departure is on purpose - its designed for connections quite well
I understand why they're doing it, but they're going after very competitive connecting markets at the expense of the local market.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 58): For reference the top existing network transfer markets on the GRU flight today are:
Many of these are in the 1230 bank, and all of them would still connect regardless if TK arrived earlier in the day.
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