Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
New F9 Service: MSY-TTN  
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2608 times:

The service is bookable on flyfrontier.com

Looks like twice weekly service (Monday and Friday) starting in February.

MSY-TTN
Flight #986
Dep: 1045a (MO) 1705 (FR)
Arr: 1430 (MO) 2050 (FR)
A319

TTN-MSY
Flight #985
Dep: 0800 (MO) 1420 (FR)
Arr: 1005 (MO) 1625 (FR)
A319

Needless to say I'm shocked to see this one start!

[Edited 2012-11-15 05:31:19]

67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineblr380 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2613 times:

:o Where did this one come from? Last time I read about MSY lobbying to get a F9 hub was a good bit of humor....and this one comes out of the blue. I hope this isn't a typo..lol

User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3817 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2611 times:

I'm sure there's going to be an incredible explanation for why this is being started.

User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2610 times:

Quoting blr380 (Reply 1):
I hope this isn't a typo..lol

Nope. It's already shown on the route map, too. Pleasantly surprised by this. 


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4674 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2615 times:

This might go down as the "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot" route of the year...


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlinenkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2665 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2613 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 4):

I understand MCO with the parks and such, but what would be the market here?? MSY pretty much covered out of PHL, isnt it?



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2615 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
Needless to say I'm shocked to see this one start!
Quoting blr380 (Reply 1):
Last time I read about MSY lobbying to get a F9 hub was a good bit of humor....
Quoting nkops (Reply 5):
but what would be the market here??

On the plus side, they wouldn't be starting this based solely upon the market numbers because there aren't any. Either they are getting a subsidy from somebody...or worse...it is connected to that buyer in MSY.


User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2613 times:

MSY was just named best American city to visit by Travel and Leisure magazine...and Conde Nast rated it #8...so the tourism trade is certainly on the up and up. I'm sure they'll also get some people from the TTN area to fly down for cruises on Carnival, NCL, Royal, and the two overnight steamboat companies

Perhaps we'll see more routes like this from the new Frontier? Certainly "outside the box" thinking. A few years ago a route like this would be flown by Allegiant and probably no one else. Frontier is changing.


User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2614 times:

TTN flyers are probably ecstatic! Maybe we can see TTN gain more commercial service (from other airlines) if this does well.

User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2613 times:

This comes before WN launching EWR-MSY. F9 lists TTN as "Newark, NJ area airports" when keying in "new york" and it comes under Philadelphia as well. But my guess is F9's TTN strategy is more for the NY play since it's a bigger stretch associating TTN with NYC. MSY also is a slightly longer route than FLL from TTN.

[Edited 2012-11-15 06:52:29]

User currently offlineSurfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2865 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2614 times:

Is this a joke?!? Unlike MCO, MSY is certainly no powerhouse station for F9: they can't even maintain year round service from their primary Denver hub. I am not aware of any significant ties between New Jersey/Eastern Pennsylvania and New Orleans. Unless they are actually serious about doing some kind of hub or focus city at MSY (and even if they were, why wouldn't they start with something like OMA?), I can't think of any rationale for this service.

First B6 to ABQ, now this. I'm sensing a trend.. WN's schedule extension could have some shocking surprises for us!



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineDBCooper From Brazil, joined Jun 2004, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2614 times:

Looks like there are 3 more new TTN routes on the route map...

So TTN-MSY is not an isolated new route from TTN.


- DBC


User currently onlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2621 times:

TTN - MSY: Jan-May 2xW
TTN - FLL: Feb-May 3xW
TTN - MCO: Nov-Jan 2xW; Feb-May 4xW
TTN - TPA: Jan-May 3xW
TTN - RSW: Jan-May 2xW


User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2612 times:

Eastwind lives!


////

////



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently onlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2613 times:

Interesting, looks like the aircraft will be based in TTN:

http://media.flyfrontier.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=5404


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2619 times:

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 10):
I am not aware of any significant ties between New Jersey/Eastern Pennsylvania and New Orleans.


It will just be leisure. From the route map, it looks like F9 will also start TTN-FLL, TTN-RSW and TTN-TPA as well, but none of the F9 TTN routes will be daily. It looks like F9 at TTN is following one of NK's strategies, modeled like NK at LBE for Pittsburgh. However, I think a lot of the flying pax from Princeton and Central NJ being upscale and white collar/work oriented, even if they knew about the F9 service, would probably stick with UA or WN- a carrier offering daily service, better frequency, and more useable FF.

[Edited 2012-11-15 08:36:09]

User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4401 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2613 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 9):
This comes before WN launching EWR-MSY. F9 lists TTN as "Newark, NJ area airports" when keying in "new york" and it comes under Philadelphia as well. But my guess is F9's TTN strategy is more for the NY play since it's a bigger stretch associating TTN with NYC

I would think this is coincidental F9 is launching TTN-MSY before EWR-MSY as they've avoided competing with WN in the past. Also at 2x weekly they can't expected it to be competitive and the NYC market is huge.

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 12):
TTN - MSY: Jan-May 2xW
TTN - FLL: Feb-May 3xW
TTN - MCO: Nov-Jan 2xW; Feb-May 4xW
TTN - TPA: Jan-May 3xW
TTN - RSW: Jan-May 2xW

These others seem much less of an oddball.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently onlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2610 times:

Not sure if the runway is long enough, but a redeye DEN-TTN and early morning TTN-DEN return might be a good utilization of an aircraft...wishful thinking!

Something along the lines of:

DEN-TTN d: 11:50pm / a: 5:50am
TTN-DEN d: 6:45am / a: 9:00am


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3145 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2611 times:

Outside of being snowbird routes in destination and tenure. Three of the four TTN-Florida routes should be good for the Major League Baseball pre-season camps. Might we see TTN-AZA next for the team(s) who train in Airizona?


Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineTdan From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 432 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2614 times:

Man, this looks like a bad Seabury-esqe consulting project. F9 is probably getting a lot of dough for these!


We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25257 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2613 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 15):
However, I think a lot of the flying pax from Princeton and Central NJ being upscale and white collar/work oriented, even if they knew about the F9 service, would probably stick with UA or WN- a carrier offering daily service, better frequency, and more useable FF.

Bookings for Frontier's TTN-MCO have been "robust" (Frontier's word) since the day it was open for booking. As I posted at the time, I have seldom seen a new Frontier route book so well, so fast.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2613 times:

I am shocked they would add MSY before DEN! The 319 I would think is possible for takeoff from TTN to DEN?

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 13):
Eastwind lives!

Yeah no kidding! I welcome it. TTN is too ready a facility in way too crowded an area to sit empty IMHO.


User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3817 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2617 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 20):
Bookings for Frontier's TTN-MCO have been "robust" (Frontier's word) since the day it was open for booking. As I posted at the time, I have seldom seen a new Frontier route book so well, so fast.



Hows SHD look?


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5432 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2615 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 7):
Perhaps we'll see more routes like this from the new Frontier? Certainly "outside the box" thinking.

Hey 'tristar, maybe we'll see that elusive MSY-SAN route after all!   

(Semi-seriously though, it's a market with healthy traffic but probably not quite enough, IMO, to support a daily nonstop a la WN. Three times a week on Frontier? Who knows...)

bb


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2616 times:

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 12):

TTN - MSY: Jan-May 2xW
TTN - FLL: Feb-May 3xW
TTN - MCO: Nov-Jan 2xW; Feb-May 4xW
TTN - TPA: Jan-May 3xW
TTN - RSW: Jan-May 2xW

The F9 VP of Planning founded Shuttle America, so it is not surprising.

I think MSY will suck. RSW will suck after Easter. FLL/TPA can work as well as MCO if they succeed at promoting the flights and getting people to try TTN. Overall, it is not a dumb idea, but I don't think it should work as well as COS which they are already pruning.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25257 posts, RR: 85
Reply 25, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2825 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting enilria (Reply 24):
The F9 VP of Planning founded Shuttle America, so it is not surprising.

I'm not aware that Daniel Shurz founded Shuttle America?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinejetsetter629 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2833 times:

Do you think US will respond to these routes and lower their fares to these destinations?

User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 27, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 25):
Quoting enilria (Reply 24):
The F9 VP of Planning founded Shuttle America, so it is not surprising.

I'm not aware that Daniel Shurz founded Shuttle America?

"Greg Aretakis, Frontier's vice president, network and revenue"

I'm kind of shocked you didn't know that Shurz was promoted.
"Daniel Shurz, Frontier's Senior Vice President of Commercial Activities"

That happened 10 months ago.

Aretakis at Shuttle America proof which I guess is needed?
http://www.saveourheritage.com/SA_History.html

 

[Edited 2012-11-15 10:16:55]

[Edited 2012-11-15 10:19:11]

[Edited 2012-11-15 10:19:45]

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25257 posts, RR: 85
Reply 28, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2978 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting enilria (Reply 27):
I'm kind of shocked you didn't know that Shurz was promoted.
"Daniel Shurz, Frontier's Senior Vice President of Commercial Activities"

I'm fully aware of that - it was a step-up for him and every route decision has to get past him. Greg Aretakis is revenue and was an exec at Shuttle America.

David Hackett founded Shuttle America.

mariner

[Edited 2012-11-15 10:22:45]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2950 times:

Quoting jetsetter629 (Reply 26):
Do you think US will respond to these routes and lower their fares to these destinations?

I wouldnt think so just because Frontier will only be flying a few days of the week and it is a unique airport that people will either like or not.
The free parking at TTN has to equate to some serious savings on long trips especially for those who are actually closer or equi-distant. Plus the convenience of walking to your car versus some annoying shuttle bus ride, TTN should be successful in theory for a ULCC


User currently offlineUnited727 From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 401 posts, RR: 1
Reply 30, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2977 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 4):
"Whiskey Tango Foxtrot"

LMFAO

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 7):
MSY was just named best American city to visit by Travel and Leisure magazine
Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 7):
Perhaps we'll see more routes like this from the new Frontier? Certainly "outside the box"
thinking.

     


This may not be the only suprise of the year....Rumors are flying that RFD may get additional service from F9 that will suprise many!



Looking for the impossible way to save those dying breeds!!!!
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4401 posts, RR: 6
Reply 31, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2945 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting United727 (Reply 30):
This may not be the only suprise of the year....Rumors are flying that RFD may get additional service from F9 that will suprise many!

Maybe RFD-FLL? G4 currently flies RFD-Orlando and Tampa/St. Peteresburg but maybe there's room for two, I highly doubt it though.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 32, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2950 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 28):
I'm fully aware of that - it was a step-up for him and every route decision has to get past him. Greg Aretakis is revenue and was an exec at Shuttle America.

David Hackett founded Shuttle America.

Aretakis is the VP responsible for Route Planning. By your definition, Siegel is the Planning VP as all Planning decisions must be approved by him as well.

Aretakis was a founder and initial investor with two others in Shuttle America. Ask him if you don't believe me.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25257 posts, RR: 85
Reply 33, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2948 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting enilria (Reply 32):
Aretakis is the VP responsible for Route Planning.

I understand that I;m wasting my time arguing with you, but Daniel Shurz's watch was expanded from just route planning to include all commercial operations.

And of course he answers to Siegel - the CEO. They all do. It was Siegel who gave us the clue, two or three weeks ago - that Frontier doesn't do enough north/south flying. Obviously, that has just changed, at least a little.

mariner

[Edited 2012-11-15 11:39:20]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 34, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2944 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 23):
Hey 'tristar, maybe we'll see that elusive MSY-SAN route after all!

(Semi-seriously though, it's a market with healthy traffic but probably not quite enough, IMO, to support a daily nonstop a la WN. Three times a week on Frontier? Who knows...)

Well my friend, with the addition of MSY-TTN, I've seen it all now...so nothing else, and I mean nothing, would surprise me! lol

Quoting enilria (Reply 24):
... FLL/TPA can work as well as MCO if they succeed at promoting the flights and getting people to try TTN.

I think that's the key on all of the routes. I think you might be underestimating the tourism draw of MSY. These are tourist flights, no more, no less. I think they all could do well. The trick will be getting people to find out about the service and take advantage of it.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25257 posts, RR: 85
Reply 35, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2952 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 13):
Eastwind lives!

All it needs it TTN-BOS and/or TTN-GSO to complete that picture.  
Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 34):
These are tourist flights, no more, no less.

  

And - perhaps - may prove to be seasonal, but I can't see anything wrong with that.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 36, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2928 times:

Now the real question...

Will Frontier put a honeybee on the tail for the TTN based plane?  

(said in jest, of course)


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 37, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2918 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 34):
I think that's the key on all of the routes. I think you might be underestimating the tourism draw of MSY.

MSY is much harder to sell than Florida. That's why MSY has such spotty service to anywhere, but hubs. MSY has very little point-to-point service outside WN. Florida has tons. There is a reason for that, like it or not. I like MSY in a LAS kind of way, but the volume just isn't there. If you think about Bourbon Street as a fly market compared to a beach in Tampa, it is really tiny. There's a fraction of the hotel rooms and MSY tends to be a drive market. Nothing is forever, but those are issues F9 can't solve.

RSW will only work till Easter and then the bottom falls out, so it's kind of irrelevant. It's a 60 or maybe 90 day market. The others (excepting MSY) can go all year, maybe. I'm still not particularly confident in F9's ability to make this work given that their track record with focus cities is about as the same as Microsoft's with electronics. Having said that, Trenton-Florida is viable for somebody. We'll see if F9 is that carrier. NK has been pulling back in ACY in recent years which is a bad sign.


User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 38, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2912 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 37):
MSY is much harder to sell than Florida. That's why MSY has such spotty service to anywhere, but hubs. MSY has very little point-to-point service outside WN. Florida has tons. There is a reason for that, like it or not. I like MSY in a LAS kind of way, but the volume just isn't there. If you think about Bourbon Street as a fly market compared to a beach in Tampa, it is really tiny. There's a fraction of the hotel rooms and MSY tends to be a drive market. Nothing is forever, but those are issues F9 can't solve.

I'm not comparing MSY to Florida. Two totally different animals. Much of FL's draw is beaches obviously. And the Mouse. MSY does have a large drive in market...so? The air service the city has is adequate for a city its size. Look at TPA, MCO, FLL/MIA...much larger metro populations...so that in itself requires additional capacity. Lack of hotel rooms isn't a problem...if it was, the Super Bowl wouldn't have once again picked MSY to be its host city this year. What I can say is that the city must be doing something right if it was voted the number one destination in America by T+L this past week. It's also a popular (and growing) cruise port as well as a convention destination. So no, you can't compare MSY to Florida, or in terms of volume Vegas, but you can say it's a place that people want to travel to. I think the good people in the TTN area would welcome a nonstop to MSY...which, by the way, is so much more than Bourbon Street.


User currently offlinejetsetter629 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2936 times:

I live in the Philadelphia western suburbs and I just booked my weekend trip to NOLA with F9. Can't be $177 round trip - and free parking in TTN!

User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2903 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 20):
Bookings for Frontier's TTN-MCO have been "robust" (Frontier's word) since the day it was open for booking. As I posted at the time, I have seldom seen a new Frontier route book so well, so fast.

mariner

It's a good sign that F9 is increasing the MCO service to 4x weekly and added other Florida. The original 2x weekly to MCO just seemed like a gimmick, but I suppose they wanted to test it out.

Quoting mariner (Reply 35):
All it needs it TTN-BOS

With F9 dedicated to TTN and offering MCO, FLL and TPA, I think BOS would be ideal as well, but it'd have to be daily. A side benefit would be competing on one-stops from BOS to Florida.

With the TTN dedication, I wonder about ABE. The two do have common overlap area in eastern PA/western NJ bordering areas. Since F9 isn't servicing ABE at what FL did, it'd otherwise make sense for F9 to build up TTN since that's where greater interest is by them now, rather than split the potential flying traffic from those overlap areas.

Quoting enilria (Reply 37):
RSW will only work till Easter and then the bottom falls out,

NK flies ACY-RSW daily. Perhaps F9 figured if NK can make it work from ACY, a PHL alternate, it'd be worthwhile to give it a shot from TTN.

It's actually weird that Frontier states: "Easy access to Central New Jersey and Southeast Pennsylvania." TTN is also easy access to Southern New Jersey as well, and NK might see some pax dropoff by F9 at TTN.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 21):
I am shocked they would add MSY before DEN! The 319 I would think is possible for takeoff from TTN to DEN?

It's a long route (over 1500 miles) and DEN fares from PHL and EWR are quite reasonable. It'd be great if F9 did something like TTN-CLE-DEN. Fares into CLE from EWR and PHL are quite high, and it's an 8 hour drive. Somewhat too long of a drive, but the right distance for short-haul. It'd also feed into the CLE-DEN flight, and F9 pax could reach the west at 2 stops. WN sells many small airport markets a 2 stop itinery, ISP to SFO: ISP-BWI-DEN-SFO, and it can't be done in 1 stop.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25257 posts, RR: 85
Reply 41, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2910 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 40):
With F9 dedicated to TTN and offering MCO, FLL and TPA, I think BOS would be ideal as well, but it'd have to be daily. A side benefit would be competing on one-stops from BOS to Florida.

IF - and it is still "if" - these routes work and more than seasonally, then I would think that TTN-BOS may be on the cards, if only summer seasonal and not necessarily 2013 summer.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 40):
With the TTN dedication, I wonder about ABE. The two do have common overlap area in eastern PA/western NJ bordering areas. Since F9 isn't servicing ABE at what FL did, it'd otherwise make sense for F9 to build up TTN since that's where greater interest is by them now, rather than split the potential flying traffic from those overlap areas.

I think you may be the smartest person to comment in this thread because Frontier is suspending ABE, which would seem to be directly allied to this.

http://media.flyfrontier.com/article....cfm?article_id=5406&view_id=2237&

mariner.



aeternum nauta
User currently onlinekingcavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1306 posts, RR: 17
Reply 42, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2940 times:

Frontier announces suspension of Allentown service
Thursday, Nov 15, 2012 15:18
Service ends April 7, 2013

Today we announced suspension of nonstop service between Lehigh Valley International Airport (ABE), in Allentown, Pa. and Orlando International Airport (MCO) effective April 7, 2013. Flights after April 7, 2013, will be removed from the schedule on Sunday, Nov. 18, 2012.

“Frontier is committed to providing its customers with convenient, low-fare service and relies heavily on airports keeping their costs competitive,” said Greg Aretakis, Frontier’s vice president, network and revenue. “Unfortunately, increasing fuel and other operating costs at Lehigh Valley International Airport have made it impossible to provide the low fares customers demand and, ultimately, we made the business decision to suspend our service.”



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2823 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

So how long before the NIMBYs in Princeton complain? I'd say within 2 months.


Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineEWRandMDW From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 416 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2805 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 43):
So how long before the NIMBYs in Princeton complain?

I don't think they will because Princeton is a bit too far away to the east. The folks in PA just across the Delaware River are another story...


User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2799 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hmm...I thought I read somewhere that they had complained. But your right bucks county pa is close. Actually it might be Pennington and Hopewell I'm thinking of. They have a lot of rich people over there. But whenever they try to do much to TTN the nimbys start complaining regardless of where they are from.


Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineuncgso From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2811 times:

oh how i am waiting for the GSO routes to TTN, FLL, BOS, PBI & DEN

the honey bee would look great on a F9 tail lol ... btw do the GSO-MCO bookings look 'robust" ?


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 47, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2793 times:

F9 is flailing about.. .....

User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2785 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 41):
Frontier is suspending ABE, which would seem to be directly allied to this.

It's unfortunate for the Lehigh Valley and ABE (which has lost a lot of service), but that region, still has Allegiant to SFB. No service to S. Florida though. Reading, Pottsville and central areas (between ABE and MDT) could easily support MDT, while Philly MSA and NJ support TTN. While TTN is doing well on MCO sales, I think F9 will still need to advertise to not fade away. I'm curious how MSY and RSW will do.

I'd suggest nj101.5, wpst fm, billboards on nj transit trains, Monmouth/Ocean FM stations and maybe the Philly TV stations, and Cablevision/News12. One thing that I wouldn't suggest is advertising by Exit 13 of NJ Turnpike like ACY did. While the NYC play is attractive and F9 is doing so on it's website, actual paid advertising too north up is just way too far away, imo.

[Edited 2012-11-16 05:43:08]

User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2771 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I heard F9 sponsoring traffic on 101.5 advertising their Trenton to Orlando service. Which is smart because there are many people that tune in for just the traffic and of course the people who listen to the hosts who will listen thru the traffic. 1015 is big in central jersey and northern south jersey from Edison to atleast Manahawkin going north and south and Belmar to Eastern PA (bucks county and beyond) they also draw a different crowd on Weekends when they play music.

[Edited 2012-11-16 07:17:41]


Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlinewagz From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 516 posts, RR: 16
Reply 50, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2782 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 48):
I'd suggest nj101.5, wpst fm, billboards on nj transit trains, Monmouth/Ocean FM stations and maybe the Philly TV stations, and Cablevision/News12. One thing that I wouldn't suggest is advertising by Exit 13 of NJ Turnpike like ACY did. While the NYC play is attractive and F9 is doing so on it's website, actual paid advertising too north up is just way too far away, imo.

Ironic because I was driving home to Philly on the southbound NJ Turnpike last night and noticed a Frontier TTN-MCO billboard. I don't recall exatly where it was, but it wasn't quite up by Exit 13. If I had to guess it was somewhere closer to New Brunswick or something or even further south. Good to see they're getting the word out there.



I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3145 posts, RR: 1
Reply 51, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2776 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 37):
MSY is much harder to sell than Florida.

You have to remember the greater NOLA area has found their niche and does a exceptional job marketing themselves as a foodie town. When you compare apples with apples i.e. food vs. food I favor the region over south beach.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3145 posts, RR: 1
Reply 52, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2787 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 49):
I heard F9 sponsoring traffic on 101.5 advertising their Trenton to Orlando service
Quoting wagz (Reply 50):
Ironic because I was driving home to Philly on the southbound NJ Turnpike last night and noticed a Frontier TTN-MCO billboard

I stated several threads ago F9 could also economically market several states which now includes New Jersey and North Dakota using placard type brochures at all Interstate road traveler visitor welcome stations. This in my mind would capture a large audience as thousands of local commuters and visitors drive the Interstates on a daily basis. It even makes more sense with the Trenton expansion announced yesterday.

In my mind a single placard announcing all cites served in a single brochure would suffice at all welcome stations. F9 might also try 2' x 3' lighted signage in showing the F9 brand on the walls in the visitor center.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 53, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2779 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 51):
You have to remember the greater NOLA area has found their niche and does a exceptional job marketing themselves as a foodie town.
Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 38):
Lack of hotel rooms isn't a problem...if it was, the Super Bowl wouldn't have once again picked MSY to be its host city this year.
Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 38):
So no, you can't compare MSY to Florida, or in terms of volume

It's all about volume. MSY doesn't have it. Looking at peak season (1Q2012), MSY is 20% smaller than RSW, 1/2 of TPA, 1/3 of FLL, and 25% of MCO.

The other "problem" MSY has with regard to point to point service is that because the Florida demand is much more concentrated to the Northeast, it is much easier to support point-to-point services. MSY has a more typical demand pattern spread out over many O&Ds.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 47):
F9 is flailing about.. .....

If this is not subsidized then I would agree. I'm assuming it must be, however. I suppose either way, you could be right.

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 49):
I heard F9 sponsoring traffic on 101.5 advertising their Trenton to Orlando service.

Hopefully the airport is paying for it.  


User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2763 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting enilria (Reply 53):
Hopefully the airport is paying for it.

Come to think of it, they probably are as I heard Streamline advertising in the same spot back when they were operating out of TTN.



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 55, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2769 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 53):
It's all about volume. MSY doesn't have it. Looking at peak season (1Q2012), MSY is 20% smaller than RSW, 1/2 of TPA, 1/3 of FLL, and 25% of MCO.

The other "problem" MSY has with regard to point to point service is that because the Florida demand is much more concentrated to the Northeast, it is much easier to support point-to-point services. MSY has a more typical demand pattern spread out over many O&Ds.

Again, I'm not saying it's as big of a draw as Florida is. Not even sure why you want to compare them. What I was trying to do in my post above was to quell some misconceptions you might have. The fact is this is a twice weekly flight from a highly populated region to a popular, and growing, destination city. If the word gets out there, I've no doubt that it'd be ridiculously easy to fill an A319 to New Orleans, at least seasonally.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 56, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2768 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 55):
Again, I'm not saying it's as big of a draw as Florida is. Not even sure why you want to compare them.

It's a valid comparison because outside WN (which is all point to point) nearly all other point to point services in this country are basically to Florida or Vegas (and some Hawaii). Even Allegiant is almost exclusively doing that stuff and has only a handful of AZA/LAX/OAK stuff. NK also has almost nothing that isn't flying from their focus cities. Florida is where the vast bulk of point to point services are.

So, MSY is out of character. I have fun in MSY. I think it has great potential, but F9 isn't going to change the market single-handed. A lot more is going to need to happen. They'd need to expand the Bourbon Street "scene", make it into a gambling mecca (probably too late for that), get a lot more cruises ala FLL, or try something new to get the volume up enough to be able to support point-to-point services into the Northeast. None of that is impossible at all. They have a good brand to build from, but the air service needs volume to work. Maybe the "foodie" thing is something, but it's not big enough. The air service doesn't lead in tourist markets, development of the attractions has to lead.

People never think just how many people it takes to make a flight work, especially a point to point flight. Just 2/week is going to require 12,000 per year in Trenton's catchment wanting to come to MSY. 12,000 IS A TON OF PEOPLE (6 tons actually LOL). For daily service you need 42,000!   Think about that. That's the population of a small city in the USA. The other thing Florida has going for it (and this is huge and rarely talked about on here) is time-share. That's a major driver of Florida traffic. Once you have bought you are committed to a pilgrimage of once or twice per year. MSY has zero as far as I know. I've never met anybody with a timeshare there.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3145 posts, RR: 1
Reply 57, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2741 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 56):
They'd need to expand the Bourbon Street "scene", make it into a gambling mecca

I think if F9 wanted casino's they would have chose GPT for Biloxi. The Mississippi state line is a short drive from NOLA. I know the chief the police in NOLA; Ronald Surpass I'd wager he doesn't want gambling in his town in that Mississippi is so close.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 973 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2753 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 57):
I think if F9 wanted casino's they would have chose GPT for Biloxi. The Mississippi state line is a short drive from NOLA. I know the chief the police in NOLA; Ronald Surpass I'd wager he doesn't want gambling in his town in that Mississippi is so close.

If you know the Chief of Police in New Orleans, then you must know that there are big casinos and casino boats in New Orleans already, don't you? Harrah's has a big casino right downtown on Canal St.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 59, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2740 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 56):
Florida is where the vast bulk of point to point services are.

Not denying that. And rightfully so.

Quoting enilria (Reply 56):
but F9 isn't going to change the market single-handed.

Not expecting them to.

Quoting enilria (Reply 56):
A lot more is going to need to happen. They'd need to expand the Bourbon Street "scene", make it into a gambling mecca (probably too late for that), get a lot more cruises ala FLL, or try something new to get the volume up enough to be able to support point-to-point services into the Northeast. None of that is impossible at all. They have a good brand to build from, but the air service needs volume to work. Maybe the "foodie" thing is something, but it's not big enough. The air service doesn't lead in tourist markets, development of the attractions has to lead.

There's a lot of new development going on in the tourist areas of the city. Just a few examples...massive expansion of the National WW2 Museum, transformation of the Riverwalk mall into an upscale outlet mall (long overdue), redevelopment of the theater district downtown, new streetcar lines being constructed (popular with tourists), constant new hotel and restaurant openings...I could go on, but I don't want to bore anyone. New Orleans is not hurting for business or for tourism. The city is seeing increased visitors year over year. As far as gambling, well, there's Harrah's right downtown along with its new Fulton Street entertainment district...I wouldn't expect to see much more added in the way of gambling...I don't think the city wants or even needs to turn itself into a new Vegas. I like Vegas, but the place is as fake as it gets. NOLA has a lot of historic charm. Overall I think the city is positioned well for future growth with what it has. You have strong nightlife/music/food/arts scenes. Cruise ship traffic will pass 1 million this year for the first time since Katrina...it's really expanded over the past few years...and a new terminal is being constructed so the port can handle another large ship. I'm glad you like New Orleans...but I think you might have a false perception of what is actually taking place down here.

Quoting enilria (Reply 56):
People never think just how many people it takes to make a flight work, especially a point to point flight. Just 2/week is going to require 12,000 per year in Trenton's catchment wanting to come to MSY. 12,000 IS A TON OF PEOPLE (6 tons actually LOL). For daily service you need 42,000! Think about that. That's the population of a small city in the USA. The other thing Florida has going for it (and this is huge and rarely talked about on here) is time-share. That's a major driver of Florida traffic. Once you have bought you are committed to a pilgrimage of once or twice per year. MSY has zero as far as I know. I've never met anybody with a timeshare there.

Well I know there are several Wyndham time-share properties in NOLA. My ex wife stayed at one before the wedding...the La Belle Maison...beautiful place. In the not too distant past there weren't any.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3145 posts, RR: 1
Reply 60, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2724 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 58):
then you must know that there are big casinos and casino boats in New Orleans already, don't you? Harrah's has a big casino right downtown on Canal St.

Fair enough. I was not aware of Harrah's NOLA. It has been a few years. The riverboats are regulated differently than shore based casinos unless they are permanent fixtures no longer capable of steerage.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2712 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Just booked my TTN-MCO trip for late January for $122.64 all-in with a 13% discount code available at the other airline talk board. Can't beat that, free parking too.


Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 62, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2698 times:

Words getting out, friends and family who don't follow the industry are now aware of the new service and are eager to give it a try. I'm hoping this works out, it's the closest airport to where I live and would be a nice alternative.

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...rontier_airlines_expands_serv.html



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (1 year 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 2597 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Sure would be a nice alternative TTN cuts 30 minutes off my travel time to EWR and 45 off of PHL and that doesn't even take security delays into account. Hope to see TTN-DEN within a year or 2 for service to the west.


Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3145 posts, RR: 1
Reply 64, posted (1 year 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 2584 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 63):
TTN cuts 30 minutes off my travel time to EWR and 45 off of PHL

And the perfect three to my understanding is the free parking at TTN. The lowest economy parking I can partake at my origin airport cost me $8.00 a day and involves shuttle bus transport to the terminal and usually a tip to the driver. Long term parking closer to the terminal is in the neighborhood of $25 a day. Of course short term is usually on a hourly basis not to exceed long term parking rate.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinenkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2665 posts, RR: 6
Reply 65, posted (1 year 10 months 15 hours ago) and read 2472 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 61):
Can't beat that, free parking too.

From what I have heard that will be going away at some point.. won't be expensive, but won't be free anymore...



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineJerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 66, posted (1 year 10 months 6 hours ago) and read 2309 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Re: nkops and free parking
They had better be careful not to pull the plug too early before travelers get used to flying out of TTN. They need to make sure it's going to stick. Lots of airlines have come and gone from TTN and the words "free parking" are very good marketing words.



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlinenkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2665 posts, RR: 6
Reply 67, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2241 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 66):

I agree.. I was told this by one of the TSA personnel there, so take it for what its worth...

I do think if it sticks though, free parking will go away and might become a decent source of revenue for the county.



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
YX/F9 New MKE Service posted Thu Feb 18 2010 13:22:49 by legacytravel
MSY Market "stable", New MEX Service Announced posted Mon Apr 6 2009 16:10:53 by MSYtristar
New Delta Service To LGB(new) And MSY(old) posted Tue Jan 3 2006 22:42:17 by OttoPylit
F9 Suspends MSY Service posted Sat Sep 24 2005 03:21:51 by MSYtristar
New Airlines/service To ISP? posted Mon Oct 22 2012 20:52:17 by spiritair97
Is A Travel Bank The Way To Get New Air Service? posted Sat Sep 1 2012 12:56:21 by KarlB737
New International Service To IAH In 2013? posted Tue Jul 17 2012 19:39:33 by AVENSAB727
New Commercial Service For DET? posted Sat May 5 2012 08:59:31 by dtw9
New IAH Service: TK To IST posted Thu Apr 19 2012 12:34:24 by RNOcommctr
Air Asia X Suspends New Zealand Service posted Sat Mar 17 2012 10:08:06 by NUAir