3rdGen From Bahrain, joined Jul 2011, 160 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 820 times:
No, what I am asking for is fleets with either: no boeing aircraft, or no airbus aircraft. i.e. American Airlines, which contains MDs and Boeings (although they have airbus on order). There are very few large airlines that lack either an Airbus or Boeing type.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 2): And I believe you would consider Southwest and Ryanair to be large and they're all-Boeing. As is easyjet (all Airbus).
Ya its easy with the LCCs, because they usually only fly one type anyway, so its not hard. I was thinking more along the lines of a Legacy carrier with a number of different types for different missions, short/medium/long haul. American is the best example I can think of
leftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 647 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 812 times:
I too was confused by the thread title; thought you were asking for airlines operating neither Airbus nor Boeing (in which case there aren't any, depending on your definition of "large airline"). Only one manufacturer out of the two; now that's a long list. PlymSpotter named quite a few.
n729pa From UK - England, joined Jan 2011, 262 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 809 times:
Japan Airlines....no Airbuses now
Swiss......no Boeings
Alaska.....no Airbuses
South African Airways.....no Boeings?
Transaero, Kenya Airways, LOT , Ethiopian .....no Airbuses
Cyprus Airways, Air Malta, MEA .....no Boeings
LH still has quite a few B737 and B747-400 to get rid of first. However, LH have just recently started taking delivery of the new B747-8i, so I guess Boeing aircraft will remain in the LH fleet for a while yet.
spottingpete93 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 68 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 815 times:
The largest one i can think of that doesn't operate either Airbus or Boeing is Flybe - they operate Dash 8s and Embraers only and have a fleet of about 70 aircraft
PlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11106 posts, RR: 63 Reply 12, posted (6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 812 times:
Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 3): There are very few large airlines that lack either an Airbus or Boeing type.
I'd venture a guess that there are more majors/flag carriers with such a fleet than major LCCs flying just one type.
AeroMexico
TACA
Belavia
LOT
Swiss
Olympic Air/Agean
UTAir (A321 on order)
Gulf Air (788 on order)
Air Mauritius
Yemenia
MEA
Ethiopian (350 on order)
Kenya Airways
Brussels Airlines (737s wfu)
Transaero
Air Malta
Cyprus Airways
For every carrier with a new manufacturer on order, I can think of another which is going to a one manufacturer fleet.
Caspian27 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 359 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 810 times:
Probably not what you're thinking of, but regional airlines can be quite large and don't possess either Boeing or Airbus equipment. OO for example has over 320 airframes, all Bombardier or Embraer.
You must be joking! In addition to the 737s and 747s of LH mainline that have already been pointed out, their wholly owned subsidiaries operate one of the most varied fleets of western airliners that you can find. ATRs, Avros, Boeings, Bombardiers/Canadairs, Embraers, Fokkers, MDs... they have them all.
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mogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (6 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 808 times:
Quoting aloges (Reply 20): You must be joking! In addition to the 737s and 747s of LH mainline that have already been pointed out, their wholly owned subsidiaries operate one of the most varied fleets of western airliners that you can find. ATRs, Avros, Boeings, Bombardiers/Canadairs, Embraers, Fokkers, MDs... they have them all.
Really ... you're counting cargo divisions now ?
LH mainline is ~75% Airbus so calling it "mostly Airbus" isn't too stretching it. LH+OS+LX probably increases the Airbus ratio even further.
flyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 989 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (6 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 808 times:
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 21): LH mainline is ~75% Airbus so calling it "mostly Airbus" isn't too stretching it.
I think the reason people are disagreeing so strongly is that the absolute numbers involved are so large.
On LH mainline, there about 220 Airbus aircraft vs. over 70 Boeing aircraft.
That does make LH a "mostly Airbus" airline, but it makes them irrelevant to this thread because - after all - they operate a sub-fleet of Boeings that is larger than most airlines' total fleet.
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mogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (6 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 808 times:
Quoting flyingalex (Reply 22): That does make LH a "mostly Airbus" airline, but it makes them irrelevant to this thread because - after all - they operate a sub-fleet of Boeings that is larger than most airlines' total fleet.
Then at what point is "mostly" a suitable descriptor ? 90%? 95%?
UA mainline is "only" 78% Boeing, so I guess you can't call it "mostly Boeing" either.
aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8351 posts, RR: 47 Reply 28, posted (6 months 3 days ago) and read 1379 times:
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 24): Then at what point is "mostly" a suitable descriptor ? 90%? 95%?
"Mostly" is far from the same as "nearly all", your use of which was the reason for my strong disagreement in the first place. I'll happily agree with "mostly".
Quoting aloges (Reply 23): Since LH Cargo is a wholly owned subsidiary, I counted it
Perhaps, but Lufthansa Cargo has its own AOC, as does Singapore Airlines Cargo, so they probably deserve to be treated distinctly from their passenger brethren, and neither operates Airbus aircraft.
American 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3320 posts, RR: 14 Reply 30, posted (6 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1350 times:
Those who live in France probably remember Air Inter, it used to be a French domestic airline. They flew mostly French built planes (A300, A320, A330, Caravelle and Mercure) except the Fokker 27 and the Vickers Viscount, but the main point is they never flew any US built planes.
Malev has never flown any Airbus model, neither did El Al.
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HOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2667 posts, RR: 54 Reply 32, posted (6 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1318 times:
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rjm777ual From UK - England, joined Nov 2011, 246 posts, RR: 0 Reply 41, posted (6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1013 times:
Finnair still has their fleet of 757's, and ANA still has A320's, so they're out of the question. South African has some 737's, I believe they are -800's. I don't believe that Gulf Air has any more 777's, so they're all Airbus, except for their Embraer jets. Lastly, airlines like Adria and Aegean airlines are based on an all A320 fleet.
American 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3320 posts, RR: 14 Reply 43, posted (6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 988 times:
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 1): American currently doesn't have any Airbus planes, but that will be changing in the years ahead
This will change already in one year from now, even if AA doesn't merge with US or B6. The first A319 or A321 is expected end of 2013. American will have remained Airbus free only for four years, from 2009 to 2013.
Jet Blue flies the A320 and the ERJ (170 or 190 not sure which, I know it's one of the two) but no Boeing.
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2285 posts, RR: 7 Reply 45, posted (6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 976 times:
Quoting American 767 (Reply 43): TWA has never flown any Airbus, however they did consider seriously the A330 for long hauls and the A318 for short hauls.
Yes, that's what I said in an earlier post - 737-800s.
Quoting American 767 (Reply 30): Those who live in France probably remember Air Inter, it used to be a French domestic airline. They flew mostly French built planes (A300, A320, A330, Caravelle and Mercure) except the Fokker 27 and the Vickers Viscount, but the main point is they never flew any US built planes.
I think they merged with AF. Air Inter did look seriously at the 737-500, but went with Airbus instead. I remember when they were bidding for a fleet renewal and did come to Boeing.
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2285 posts, RR: 7 Reply 46, posted (6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 972 times:
Quoting American 767 (Reply 43): TWA has never flown any Airbus, however they did consider seriously the A330 for long hauls and the A318 for short hauls.
Didn't they have them on order? I think it was more than just considering.
Yes, that's what I said in an earlier post - 737-800s.
Quoting American 767 (Reply 30): Those who live in France probably remember Air Inter, it used to be a French domestic airline. They flew mostly French built planes (A300, A320, A330, Caravelle and Mercure) except the Fokker 27 and the Vickers Viscount, but the main point is they never flew any US built planes.
I think they merged with AF. Air Inter did look seriously at the 737-500, but went with Airbus instead. I remember when they were bidding for a fleet renewal and did come to Boeing.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21448 posts, RR: 24 Reply 47, posted (6 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 976 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 2): As is easyjet (all Airbus).
And originally all Boeing.
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 46): Quoting American 767 (Reply 43):
TWA has never flown any Airbus, however they did consider seriously the A330 for long hauls and the A318 for short hauls.
Didn't they have them on order? I think it was more than just considering.
The A321's are not going to be NEOs, in fact they are going to start arriving in 2013. The NEOs (as of right now) are A320's and those aren't due to start rolling in until like 2016 I think.
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So? The QX pilots don't fly the 737 and the AS pilots don't fly the Q400 nor the CR7's. Horizon may be under the AAG but they are still Horizon Air, a separate company. So this counts.
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yeelep From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 526 posts, RR: 0 Reply 53, posted (6 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 889 times:
Well, to be pedantic, QX doesn't fly the CR7 for AS anymore. That flying is now done by OO.
Skywest (OO) is also non A or B airline, that while operating as a regional is classified as a major airline.
Alasizon From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0 Reply 58, posted (6 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 865 times:
Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 4): you were asking for airlines operating neither Airbus nor Boeing (in which case there aren't any
That is not true, as some people have brought up, Skywest, although a regional, is still not operating either and operates a very large and vast fleet.
Quoting American 767 (Reply 43): Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 39):
Horizon Air has neither A or B.
That's a regional subsidiary of Alaska
Actually, Horizon is its own company and up until recently flew under its own banner as a sister airline of AS.
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