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JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC  
User currently offlinejetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3012 posts, RR: 14
Posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5401 times:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jetblu...tomers-option-debut-143700212.html

Can't help but think that the title of the press release is a direct jab at Alaska Airlines.

Perhaps retaliation for SAN-BOS? Even if so, I'm pretty darn surprised to see this route out of B6.

JetBluefan1


Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
72 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejetMarc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 561 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5409 times:

This tag route has been rumoured for years and I feel its coincidental. One redeye is hardly reactionary when AS has depatures every 30 min. UA and CO have the same route too. A friend of mine commutes and says these flights are so full, she once spent 48 hours at the airport trying to nonrev. #72 on the standby list was her record. She would have just bought a ticket but walk up fare was almost $1400 one way. Im sure our flights will be priced well to be full and profitable.


"Sucka, I'm gonna send you out on Knuckle Airlines. Fist Class!!" ~ Mr. T
User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5405 times:

Quoting jetMarc (Reply 1):
UA and CO have the same route too

CO is UA now. Just UA.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinejetMarc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 561 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5406 times:

I mentioned UA and CO separately with the intent of showing other airlines also flew the route (and a single flight each) despite Alaska's dominance.


"Sucka, I'm gonna send you out on Knuckle Airlines. Fist Class!!" ~ Mr. T
User currently offlineANCsupercub From United States of America, joined May 2007, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5405 times:

This is great news. I am sick of paying between 500-600. It is too bad it is only a redeye and seasonal. Hopefully the fares drop a bit this summer.

User currently offlinewoodsboy From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1031 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5407 times:

ZZZZZZZZ, I almost fell asleep.......just another summer seasonal route. The real news would have been if they committed to year round service that we can actually use. And yes, the SEA-ANC corridor is busy and full which I know comes as a surprise to most who have no expeirence on that route. I speak for those of us who have had to nonrev ANC-SEA-ANC, good lord, its a nightmare and YES you can get stuck for days at one end or the other.

User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5947 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5405 times:
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Quoting woodsboy (Reply 6):
I speak for those of us who have had to nonrev ANC-SEA-ANC, good lord, its a nightmare and YES you can get stuck for days at one end or the other.

Which leads people to believe that there's plenty of traffic to go around on the SEA-ANC route. It probably will have minimal impact on Alaska's traffic, just like UA's flights. UA has two flights between SEA and ANC during the summer.


User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2478 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5407 times:
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I heard this when I was picking up a pass at B6 today in SEA, along with a couple other new locations.

I wish there was another multi-flight player on the SEA-ANC route. But, unlike the others above, I have not had troubles non-revving between the two. Although, I go on dead days and 11 out of 13 times not in summer lol.

Good luck to them on this.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 711 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5406 times:

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 5):

Spot on!! Go year round and then I'll jump up and click my heels but it's seasonal. Who doesn't fly into ANC from SEA? Almost everybody except WN and Allegiant. Im trying to figure why Jetblue can't offer year-round service. I'm sure the lift is there is enough lift. Ideas?


User currently offlinejetMarc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 561 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5406 times:

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Thread starter):

Just reread it and think you may be right! Ambiguous language, ouch!



"Sucka, I'm gonna send you out on Knuckle Airlines. Fist Class!!" ~ Mr. T
User currently offlinecotparampguy From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5406 times:

I think this flight will do very well cargowise as well. I know ANC-LGB does. It broke our cargo record for one flight.

User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2478 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5402 times:
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[quote=rotating14,reply=8]Who doesn't fly into ANC from SEA? Almost everybody except WN and Allegiant.

AA
DL
US
F9
NK



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 711 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5402 times:

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 11):

Spoke too soon. I was thinking of traffic flying into ANC from elsewhere. What stumps me is why not make it year-round.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26021 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5401 times:

For info this was already posted in the JetBlue route thread

Likely New Jetblue Cities For 2013. (by doulasc Nov 12 2012 in Civil Aviation)

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePassedV1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5401 times:

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 12):
What stumps me is why not make it year-round.

Because it is doubtful they would have the traffic. Something ridicules like 80% (I don't know what the actual number is but it is insanely high) of Anchorage residents are Alaska frequent fliers. UA has year round flights and they are often my ticket out of ANC. In the wintertime when nearly 100% of the traffic are Alaska residents, Alaskas' flights can all be oversold and I can get out with my own row on United. Additionally, Alaska has "Club 49" which gives Alaska residents two free bags and 30% off airfares when traveling to/from Alaska which is what the other airlines are competing against when they are not flying in the summer.

As an Alaska employee I welcome the competition, I think often, increased competition makes you better and often has the effect of making the"pie" bigger which is a good thing for everyone.

Jetblue chose a 1am departure from ANC, which is interesting because Alaska has a 0030, 0100, 0130, and a 0230 flight around that time period. Not that there are really any holes worth filling in the schedule, but I guess it makes the flight pretty low risk since they are probably just filling dead time anyway.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5700 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5401 times:

The late night/early morning flight pattern is very common on SEA-ANC-SEA. Even as a kid in the 70's we would always fly SEA-ANC leaving around 9pm, and then ANC-SEA leaving around 1am. It's a great use for an aircraft - ideal, really. I just hated getting to the airport up there at that hour.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13702 posts, RR: 61
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5401 times:
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Quoting rotating14 (Reply 8):
Im trying to figure why Jetblue can't offer year-round service.

They "can" ; it will just be a horrific money-loser for them, that's all.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5401 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 15):
It's a great use for an aircraft - ideal, really.

Exactly. Seems like as good of route as any to keep an A/C moving that may have otherwise just sat.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5401 times:

Quoting ANCsupercub (Reply 4):
Hopefully the fares drop a bit this summer.

For one additional flight? I seriously doubt that.

Quoting jetMarc (Reply 1):
A friend of mine commutes and says these flights are so full, she once spent 48 hours at the airport trying to nonrev. #72 on the standby list was her record.

Getting to ANC as a non-rev is not really a problem, but getting out of ANC is a whole 'nuther ball game, a royal pain in the butt!!!! Having said that, B6 did not add that flight for non-rev's. That would be obviously silly to do.

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 7):
I have not had troubles non-revving between the two.

Oh, I have....getting out of ANC is the hardest every time. This is why I stopped non-revving up there.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5545 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5402 times:

B6 jumped into SEA-SAN back in May of 2008 and the route was gone by Sept of the following year. A single daily r/t. I don't remember any kind of retaliatory move by AS -- the "owner" of the market -- as they just waited for the itch to go away. This was part of a bit of experimentation by Blue back then with some intra-west coast growth, little or none of which stuck.

Even though this SEA-ANC move seems to have at least been triggered by AS's entry into the BOS-SAN market, I think Blue's new route will be gone soon. It just has the same feel as the above-mentioned scenario and doesn't seem very "serious" to me.

The one thing I am noticing however, is that along with their newly-announced ABQ-JFK service, Blue does seem to again be stirring just a little out west; like someone in Blue's Route Planning department just realized there is some of the U.S. west of the the Ol' Mississippi!   Interesting to see where this goes...

bb


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6186 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5402 times:

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 7):
I have not had troubles non-revving between the two.

Your one of few. When I worked for AS, I had to jumpseat everytime I left ANC. I agree with AirframeAS about it being a pain in the arse!!



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5947 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5402 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 19):
B6 jumped into SEA-SAN back in May of 2008 and the route was gone by Sept of the following year.

That was another B6 flight that was intended on being seasonal. They just never brought it back. I guess that's B6's way of trying a market out here. If it works out well and the bookings are solid, the flight may go year-round.

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 8):
Who doesn't fly into ANC from SEA? Almost everybody except WN and Allegiant.

Only AS and UA and next summer B6, are the only airlines that serve SEA-ANC. No...WN and B6 do not serve ANC...yet.

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 7):
I wish there was another multi-flight player on the SEA-ANC route.

UA flies 2X daily between SEA-ANC.


User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5545 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5402 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 21):
That was another B6 flight that was intended on being seasonal. They just never brought it back. I guess that's B6's way of trying a market out here. If it works out well and the bookings are solid, the flight may go year-round

Not quite D. Although the flight was announced as seasonal, it operated year-round (including thru the winter of 2008/9) for the year plus. (And given the year-round market that SAN-SEA is, it seemed very odd to me for Blue to think about flying it seasonally.) There was some question when the route was suspended in Sept of 2009 whether it would come back or not but of course it never did.

While I'm at it, I will revise a statement I made:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 19):
This was part of a bit of experimentation by Blue back then with some intra-west coast growth, little or none of which stuck.

Some of the experimentation DID stick, such as some new LGB routes that were added at that same time. What I meant was that none of the added SAN stuff lasted -- SEA nor SLC. (That was also the time when B6 opened LAX.)

bb


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5700 posts, RR: 29
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5401 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 18):
Getting to ANC as a non-rev is not really a problem, but getting out of ANC is a whole 'nuther ball game, a royal pain in the butt!!!!

Why only one-way? It would seem logical that for every person going one direction that there would be a person going the other direction - in an overall way? Maybe it was the times you flew one way versus the other? I'm just trying to figure out this statement.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 19):
B6 jumped into SEA-SAN back in May of 2008 and the route was gone by Sept of the following year. A single daily r/t. I don't remember any kind of retaliatory move by AS -- the "owner" of the market -- as they just waited for the itch to go away. This was part of a bit of experimentation by Blue back then with some intra-west coast growth, little or none of which stuck.

One thing to add to that is that this period had to have been the toughest period to try out new routes since 9/11. The economy hit the skids in Sept 08 and certainly through 2009 was struggling quite a bit. I'm not saying the route would work now, but I'm saying that it would be a better time to try than when they did before.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5545 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 5405 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 23):
One thing to add to that is that this period had to have been the toughest period to try out new routes since 9/11. The economy hit the skids in Sept 08 and certainly through 2009 was struggling quite a bit. I'm not saying the route would work now, but I'm saying that it would be a better time to try than when they did before.

Absolutely. But since some of the routes they tried then have stuck around (LGB), I just don't think Blue gave it long enough, gave the route enough capacity, or, perhaps, cared enough about trying to make it work. Or it just really wasn't a viable route for them and they saw that after a year...

I do still find it interesting, especially given the history that Blue has in the SAN-SEA market, and IF this SEA-ANC announcement is a shot at AS, that Blue didn't dust off the SAN-SEA route and jump in there instead of what they have done? I know that SEA-ANC IS Alaska Airlines (as has been pointed out several times in this thread) and that's perhaps why B6 (sort of) chose it to try to strike at AS close to home.

And of course there is the theory that these 2 announcements are all just a big, juicy coincidence and have absolutely nothing to do with each other...  

Isn't A.net great?

bb


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 25, posted (2 years 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 5633 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 23):
Why only one-way?

It's pretty isolated up there, not much to do other than enjoying the scenery. It's like everyone in town is trying to get back to civilization. (This is not a mock to anyone living in ANC, by the way) Snowbirds are the main thing in the winter and the summer season are the obvious tourists.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 23):
Maybe it was the times you flew one way versus the other?

The flight times really do not matter. The SEA-bound flights from ANC are packed to the gills!!!

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 23):
It would seem logical that for every person going one direction that there would be a person going the other direction - in an overall way?

You would think so, yeah. I get what you are saying. I honestly cannot explain it. ANC is something that is a non-rev nightmare to get out of. But getting to ANC is a piece of cake.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5700 posts, RR: 29
Reply 26, posted (2 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 5651 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 24):
I do still find it interesting, especially given the history that Blue has in the SAN-SEA market, and IF this SEA-ANC announcement is a shot at AS, that Blue didn't dust off the SAN-SEA route and jump in there instead of what they have done? I know that SEA-ANC IS Alaska Airlines (as has been pointed out several times in this thread) and that's perhaps why B6 (sort of) chose it to try to strike at AS close to home.

SEA-ANC has several things going for it:

1. It can be marketed as a seasonal route, but stick around if the need is there.
2. It's almost like a "sure thing" as there is a ton of demand in the corridor in the summer and not a lot of options other than AS.
3. SEA-SAN has AS, WN, UA, DL, VX, and US as options (all but AS one-stop), so they would be competing with many more options. SEA-ANC has AS, a little UA, and that's about it, at least in the nonstop SEA-ANC corridor.
4. SEA-ANC is, as you say, a great use for an aircraft overnight. SEA-SAN would suck in that regard.

IMHO.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5947 posts, RR: 6
Reply 27, posted (2 years 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 5746 times:
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Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 26):
SEA-ANC has several things going for it:

Not to mention the tonnage of freight that is transported back and forth between SEA and ANC. B6 could make quite a bit of money just on freight alone.

However, this would the first time the SEA-ANC has seen a low-cost carrier since the days of Reno Air, Mark Air and AirCal.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5700 posts, RR: 29
Reply 28, posted (2 years 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5744 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 27):
However, this would the first time the SEA-ANC has seen a low-cost carrier since the days of Reno Air, Mark Air and AirCal.

I'm hopeful it will be successful, but the one thing that UA has that B6 doesn't is the amount of feed/connections at SEA. They can stick it out year round but JetBlue might be hardpressed to make it work in the off season.

I would love to see airfares on the route down around $300 or so RT so that we could afford to go visit my dad more. I've spent enough time in Alaska that I'm not all that excited to go for the scenery, so to speak, but it'd be nice for the family to fly up instead of him having to fly down. I'm not sure if JetBlue can do that, or is even interested in doing that, but if they do, we'd have to book a trip.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineN737AA From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (2 years 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5686 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 18):
Getting to ANC as a non-rev is not really a problem, but getting out of ANC is a whole 'nuther ball game, a royal pain in the butt!!!! Having said that, B6 did not add that flight for non-rev's. That would be obviously silly to do.

If nothing else its another non-rev "escape route".

N737AA


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 30, posted (2 years 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5687 times:

Quoting N737AA (Reply 29):
If nothing else its another non-rev "escape route".

Not really. The non-rev issue is still there with B6 adding this one flight. Sure, it helps with the yields, but the change is only a very tiny fraction, which is less than 1%.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently onlineUA735WL From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (2 years 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5691 times:

B6 should tread carefully......AS is VERY good at defending its turf....


"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions" -Tex Johnston
User currently offlineCalebWilliams From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (2 years 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5686 times:

Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 14):
Something ridicules like 80% (I don't know what the actual number is but it is insanely high) of Anchorage residents are Alaska frequent fliers.

I think one of the reasons for this is because AS offers Alaska residents various way to earn Alaska Airlines miles. For instance, when customers have GCI (local telecommunications company with a huge marketshare especially in the ANC area), you get a mile per dollar spend on cable/internet/cell phone/home phone, etc., so you can earn miles very quickly if you have cell phone or two and/or cable and internet.



Caleb Williams MSP AUS STL AMS CPH LGW YYZ
User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3435 posts, RR: 3
Reply 33, posted (2 years 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5659 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 25):
It's pretty isolated up there, not much to do other than enjoying the scenery. It's like everyone in town is trying to get back to civilization. (This is not a mock to anyone living in ANC, by the way) Snowbirds are the main thing in the winter and the summer season are the obvious tourists.

And never come back? Doesn't really answer the question.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 34, posted (2 years 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5669 times:

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 33):
And never come back? Doesn't really answer the question.

I don't know, as I said before. You'd have to ask AS that question. I'm only speaking from experience. I'd go back to ANC anytime, but not as a non-rev. Non-revving to ANC, for myself, is in the past and never, ever again.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25852 posts, RR: 22
Reply 35, posted (2 years 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5660 times:

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 33):
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 25):
It's pretty isolated up there, not much to do other than enjoying the scenery. It's like everyone in town is trying to get back to civilization. (This is not a mock to anyone living in ANC, by the way) Snowbirds are the main thing in the winter and the summer season are the obvious tourists.

And never come back? Doesn't really answer the question.

At least during the summer I think there's a lot of Alaska cruise traffic that flies one way and cruises the other when they don't have time for the round trip cruise.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 36, posted (2 years 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5694 times:

SEA-ANC is one of the busiest routes in the nation. There are about 20 daily flights in the summer (19 AS and 1 UA). There is enough demand for JetBlue.

AS did successfully drive off Mark Air and Reno Air in the 1990s when they each operated SEA-ANC. AS has a strong frequent flyer network and floods the market, so it can be hard for another airline to enter the route, even though there is demand. In SEA and ANC, everyone knows AS, they are all members of its generous frequent flyer program that codeshares with everyone, they all have the Alaska Airlines Visa, and they can choose from hourly service throughout the day on the route. JetBlue has to win on product or price. LiveTV doesn't work to Alaska, so they have to do it a different way.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5947 posts, RR: 6
Reply 37, posted (2 years 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5692 times:
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Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 36):
(19 AS and 1 UA)

UA now has 2X daily SEA-ANC flights.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 36):
AS did successfully drive off Mark Air and Reno Air in the 1990s when they each operated SEA-ANC.

I don't know if that's completely accurate. AS may have had an impact, but it was bad management at Mark Air and the absorption of Reno Air into AA that pulled them out of the markets. Pretty much when Wien and later, Mark Air, tried their chips in the Lower 48, they got eaten alive and never recovered from their losses. Air Cal also tried SEA-ANC with ex-Wien airplanes, but discontinued service.


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3424 posts, RR: 5
Reply 38, posted (2 years 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5429 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 37):
I don't know if that's completely accurate. AS may have had an impact, but it was bad management at Mark Air and the absorption of Reno Air into AA that pulled them out of the markets. Pretty much when Wien and later, Mark Air, tried their chips in the Lower 48, they got eaten alive and never recovered from their losses. Air Cal also tried SEA-ANC with ex-Wien airplanes, but discontinued service

You are so right Wedge, both BF & WC's demise came when they tried to get into the lower 48 flying, and very quickly at that. Here are a few examples of how both carriers got caught up in the excessive 80's & 90's, too bad they are both gone,WC was nice to fly with.

WC 02/82 - http://www.departedflights.com/WC021582.html
WC 09/83 - http://www.departedflights.com/WC091083.html
WC 03/84 - http://www.departedflights.com/WC030284.html

BF 06/91 - http://www.departedflights.com/BF060891.html
BF 09/93 - http://www.departedflights.com/BF090793.html
BF 01/95 - http://www.departedflights.com/BF010295.html

As you can see, both carriers went from flying Alaska, to flying 73S's all over the place. IIRC WC operated a handful of 72S aircraft, they seemed to operate many different routes. I know AS has done the same thing, but not in under 4 years, they have grown at a safe & steady speed. Huh, guess the tortoise does always win the race. RIP BF & WC.

With relation to B6 flying to ANC from SEA, I bet their planes will be full during the season they plan to operate, they may charge less than AS or UA, they will likely be a decent amount of connecting traffic from JFK, BOS and LGB.

I assume the flight leaves Seattle 8-10pm turns around and leaves Anchorage 1-2am, making easy connections to and from all of JetBlues hub cities in Seattle. This will mot even make a dent in AS's operation for the route. AS & B6 seem to have these mild pissing matches, and each tosses a shot across the others bow from time to time, they are watching.

[Edited 2012-11-21 02:43:46]

[Edited 2012-11-21 02:45:44]

[Edited 2012-11-21 02:50:52]


AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3208 posts, RR: 7
Reply 39, posted (2 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5278 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 37):
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 36):
AS did successfully drive off Mark Air and Reno Air in the 1990s when they each operated SEA-ANC.

I don't know if that's completely accurate. AS may have had an impact, but it was bad management at Mark Air and the absorption of Reno Air into AA that pulled them out of the markets. Pretty much when Wien and later, Mark Air, tried their chips in the Lower 48, they got eaten alive and never recovered from their losses. Air Cal also tried SEA-ANC with ex-Wien airplanes, but discontinued service.

AS didn't drive QQ out of the market. QQ was still serving SEA-ANC at the time of the AA gutting. AA continued SEA-ANC with an MD-80 for awhile after as part of a SJC-SEA-ANC routing. AA eventually dropped SEA-ANC (and SJC-SEA and everything else....) after a year or two. I wouldn't say that AS drove them out, per se. We know how committed AA is/was to SEA and SJC, etc.

Quoting UA735WL (Reply 31):
B6 should tread carefully......AS is VERY good at defending its turf..

Yep. I was especially impressed at how AS took on G4 at BLI a bit when G4 started getting too big for AS's britches in their Pacific Northwest territory.

The only route that I recall AS backing down on when a competitor entered the market is SJC-AUS.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3244 posts, RR: 1
Reply 40, posted (2 years 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5154 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 15):
The late night/early morning flight pattern is very common on SEA-ANC-SEA. Even as a kid in the 70's we would always fly SEA-ANC leaving around 9pm, and then ANC-SEA leaving around 1am. It's a great use for an aircraft - ideal, really. I just hated getting to the airport up there at that hour.

The ANC-SEA also allows allows for better connecting to most if not all SEA bank of flights flying to the East coast.

AS use to run a seasonal JNU (Juneau) SEA flight which left in the 1:00 AM hour usually arriving in SEA about 5:15 AM with the time change for the very same reason. It was hit or miss. I've seen it full and half empty to as few as twenty. AS offered it on a three day advance purchase fare.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3208 posts, RR: 7
Reply 41, posted (2 years 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5134 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 40):
AS use to run a seasonal JNU (Juneau) SEA flight which left in the 1:00 AM hour usually arriving in SEA about 5:15 AM with the time change for the very same reason. It was hit or miss. I've seen it full and half empty to as few as twenty. AS offered it on a three day advance purchase fare.

Yeah, I looked at that once too. It was a heck of a red-eye. I recall it left JNU at 1:00am and arrived in SEA at 4:00am, local times. Last time I looked, the flight was no longer there.

Let's see if B6 tries to break AS's monopoly at JNU. I would think that would challenge AS more than one token SEA-ANC flight.


User currently offlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (2 years 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5102 times:

How about aircraft rotations? I havent researched but is this just another case of sending an a/c somewhere instead of letting it sit idle somewhere like LGB or SEA?


These postings or comments are not a company-sponsored source of communication.
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (2 years 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5062 times:

I think this market will stay year round at B6.
With one free checked bag this will be a hit with Hunters and fisher men.
This is a Market that my beloved WN has been a sleep at the wheel for years since they took over Morris air.
Good job B6.
wnfg 



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3244 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (2 years 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5013 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 43):
With one free checked bag this will be a hit with Hunters and fisher men.

I have a hunch moose wouldn't qualify for the free piece of checked baggage!



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3208 posts, RR: 7
Reply 45, posted (2 years 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5004 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 43):
I think this market will stay year round at B6.
With one free checked bag this will be a hit with Hunters and fisher men.

As much as I'm a big fan of AS, the charge for first checked bag infuriates me. I was really hoping that B6 and WN would really stick it to them by offering free bag(s) and force AS to rescind that policy. I do know a large SEA ski club that booked their RNO trips on WN instead of QX solely because of AS's bag fees. So I was hoping WN and B6 would win over more AS business and cause them to change the policy back to one free bag.


User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (2 years 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4911 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 44):

Funny. But a extra bag of gear is a savings of almost $50 dollars round trip.
wnfg 



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2325 posts, RR: 38
Reply 47, posted (2 years 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4838 times:

Quoting jetMarc (Reply 3):
I mentioned UA and CO separately with the intent of showing other airlines also flew the route (and a single flight each) despite Alaska's dominance.

UA stopped flying back in 06 I believe. With the CO merger, they picked up CO's SEA-ANC runs (and since expanded alot!).


As a local of Anchorage I can say the flights are feast or famine. Many times its oversold, many times its so wide open that I get the whole row to myself. I cant non-rev anymore as im no longer with the airlines but as a paying passenger (and jumpseat traveller twice a year) I can say it is either wide open, or impossible to get on. Same goes for the jumpseat. Sometimes I list and im the only one, other times its a cozy compartment up there in the front of the 737 with 4 people. UPS/FedEx'ers, just move here and stop the commute hastle  

atct



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2079 posts, RR: 3
Reply 48, posted (2 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4509 times:

I have no doubt this route will work, even if it's just seasonal. During the summer there is a lot of traffic as everyone else indicated.

Premerger, CO had flown SEA-ANC for a near eternity it seemed. My father (retired CO captain) flew the flight a few times and I think it that might have even been in the 80's, and CO never had a big presence at SEA. I remember CO was in ANC in 1992, so they were there long before that. Obviously there was room and a niche for them. SEA-ANC was only one of a couple nonhub routes for CO. I think this history is interesting and relevant to the thread. Other players can compete, they choose not to.

B6 is not a no-name airline either.

I think SEA-ANC over the summer is a fairly low risk idea. I am just wondering if they would contract ticket agents and groundhandling there to a third party.


User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2079 posts, RR: 3
Reply 49, posted (2 years 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4436 times:

I think UA added a 2nd year round nonstop because they decided that if they were going to serve the market at all, it was worth it to be more competitive, and now the combined company has more resources.

Anyway, I think this a great move for B6. Plenty of traffic to go around.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13702 posts, RR: 61
Reply 50, posted (2 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4264 times:
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Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 43):
With one free checked bag this will be a hit with Hunters and fisher men.

Not a factor; Alaskans who are members of Club 49 (and most are!) get their bags free on AS already.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3424 posts, RR: 5
Reply 51, posted (2 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4065 times:

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 49):
Quoting klwright69 (Reply 48):
B6 is not a no-name airline either.

It is up here in the Pacific Northwest, unlike AS which is a household name.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2079 posts, RR: 3
Reply 52, posted (2 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4059 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 51):
Quoting klwright69 (Reply 49):Quoting klwright69 (Reply 48):B6 is not a no-name airline either.
It is up here in the Pacific Northwest, unlike AS which is a household name.


True. But B6 can build awareness over time.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13702 posts, RR: 61
Reply 53, posted (2 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4022 times:
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Quoting klwright69 (Reply 52):
2012 01:22:27 your local timeFri Nov 23 2012 00:22:27 UTC (1 hour 13 minutes 50 secs ago) and read 55 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 51):Quoting klwright69 (Reply 49):Quoting klwright69 (Reply 48):B6 is not a no-name airline either.
It is up here in the Pacific Northwest, unlike AS which is a household name.

True. But B6 can build awareness over time.

Unlikely; in the PNW, "buy local" actually means something. I don't know that I see this route working out for B6.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinealaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1063 posts, RR: 5
Reply 54, posted (2 years 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3855 times:

I think this will be great for jumpeseaters. AS is always full and you're lucky if you can get a middle seat in the back or one of the jumpseats. UA is usually empty but in the summer they fill up a little more so it will be very nice to have another option when the tourists begin flocking this way.

User currently offlinewingnutmn From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (2 years 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3858 times:

I don't understand why they would fly SEA-ANC, even if it is only a redeye, but won't fly a MSP-BOS or MSP-JFK because DL is too strong on the route. I guess we will never see B6 in the midwest other than ORD.

Wingnut



Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3244 posts, RR: 1
Reply 56, posted (2 years 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3798 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 50):
Not a factor; Alaskans who are members of Club 49 (and most are!)

Business travelers yes. I might argue many Alaskans and tourist who fly once or twice a year and there are many who are not members of AS Club 49



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 57, posted (2 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3747 times:

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 54):
I think this will be great for jumpeseaters

I think you have to be in CASS to jumpseat.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinealaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1063 posts, RR: 5
Reply 58, posted (2 years 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3572 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 57):
I think you have to be in CASS to jumpseat.

Are you referring to me? I am in CASS.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 59, posted (2 years 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3507 times:

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 58):
Are you referring to me? I am in CASS.

Not every airline employee is qualified to be in CASS. Just thought I'd point that out before anyone here gets confused.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3424 posts, RR: 5
Reply 60, posted (2 years 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3320 times:

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 52):
True. But B6 can build awareness over time

B6 has been in the Northwest for many years, yet there is no public recognition still, it won't happen here, below is the answer why B6 won't take much, if anything away from AS up here.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 53):
Unlikely; in the PNW, "buy local" actually means something.

It sure does mean something up here, people are pretty brand loyal and local companies always head the list of preferred providers that Northwesterners do business with. Ask Nike, REI, Columbia Sportswear, Fred Meyer and Alaska Airlines.
There is a reason WN has not done well flying within the Northwest, and now WN has pulled down many routes, even though AS was not always the cheapest option.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlinealaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1063 posts, RR: 5
Reply 61, posted (2 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3222 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 59):

Right just flight crew on airlines that are members of CASS. I was just saying its a great deal for me really to have another option because I fly back and forth a lot.


User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2079 posts, RR: 3
Reply 62, posted (2 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3191 times:

Before the CO merger didn't UA do DEN-ANC?

User currently offlinesanti319 From Mexico, joined Dec 2005, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (2 years 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3141 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 60):
B6 has been in the Northwest for many years, yet there is no public recognition still, it won't happen here, below is the answer why B6 won't take much, if anything away from AS up here.

Lol! I love all these a-netters that everytime an airline that dominates a market, like AA or AS or WN, gets competition of a lcc like NK or B6, they really believe that they are "aiming" at other passengers and not the ones that fly that route regularly. Just remember, how WN started.......


User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2478 posts, RR: 1
Reply 64, posted (2 years 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3037 times:
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Quoting klwright69 (Reply 62):
Before the CO merger didn't UA do DEN-ANC?

Yes, as well as SFO and ORD, but it was all seasonal IIRC.

Last DC-10 trip I had was UA SEA-ANC in 2000(?) they had stubbed a 733. Very wide open lol.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 3
Reply 65, posted (2 years 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2936 times:

Quoting santi319 (Reply 63):
Just remember, how WN started.......

Yes, in a very regulated industry and by offering low fares that nobody else offered at the time with extraordinarily low costs. Fast forward to 2012 and it's a different industry with different consumers.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 66, posted (2 years 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2890 times:

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 61):
Right just flight crew on airlines that are members of CASS.

You forgot mechanics and dispatchers.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3424 posts, RR: 5
Reply 67, posted (2 years 22 hours ago) and read 2789 times:

Quoting santi319 (Reply 63):

Lol! I love all these a-netters that everytime an airline that dominates a market, like AA or AS or WN, gets competition of a lcc like NK or B6,

1 seasonal flight vs 18 daily flights is not even close to "competition". AS itself, on it's website touts themselves as an LCC.

Quoting santi319 (Reply 63):
they really believe that they are "aiming" at other passengers and not the ones that fly that route regularly.

In NK's case, that is mostly true, NK gets people flying that often times would not have flown otherwise.

There is a finite number of passengers that will fly SEA-ANC-SEA, so AS flies 18 flights a day instead of 19 no big deal, the people that will fly B6 vs AS on this route are not the customers AS is really vying for. AS goes for the repeat traveller, and with an extremely loyal fan base in Alaska and the Pacific Northwest, B6 will not be anything more than one in a long list of carriers that have flown, or still do, fly SEA-ANC-SEA against AS and operate one or two daily flights.

Chances are the B6 flight will operate as a one stop from JFK and there will be a certain number of through passengers that AS was never going to capture anyway. In addition there is non-stop service from the NYC area to ANC B6 will need to compete with as well.

Quoting santi319 (Reply 63):
Just remember, how WN started.......

Indeed a beautiful story, however in the Northwest WN is a poor example in relation to competition with AS, WN has not done well up here, despite many years of trying. AS dominates up here, and for the most part, travellers support them.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2325 posts, RR: 38
Reply 68, posted (2 years 19 hours ago) and read 2707 times:

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 62):
Before the CO merger didn't UA do DEN-ANC?

This ended in 2006 I believe. United was gone for 3 or 4 years before the merger brought "them" back again via pmCO flights. All the current (since 2008) flights are pmCO aircraft and crews.

atct



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13702 posts, RR: 61
Reply 69, posted (2 years 17 hours ago) and read 2615 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 56):

My information says your argument is horribly flawed.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineyeelep From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 669 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (2 years 12 hours ago) and read 2527 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 43):
I think this market will stay year round at B6.
With one free checked bag this will be a hit with Hunters and fisher men.
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 50):
Not a factor; Alaskans who are members of Club 49 (and most are!) get their bags free on AS already
Why on earth would an Alaskan want to travel outside the state to hunt or fish?

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 56):
Business travelers yes. I might argue many Alaskans and tourist who fly once or twice a year and there are many who are not members of AS Club 49
I would assume that most Business travelers that fly AS ANC-SEA-ANC are already MVP or above, so they haven't any need for Club49. Whether tourist or not, one of the requirements is to be a resident of Alaska. Since its introduction just over a year ago, Club49 has 38% of the population of Alaska as members.

The only B6 baggage advantage I can see is if you check only one bag. Two bags, AS and B6 are the same price, three bags B6 is more expensive.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 71, posted (2 years 9 hours ago) and read 2470 times:

Quoting yeelep (Reply 70):
Why on earth would an Alaskan want to travel outside the state to hunt or fish?

Does Alaska have year-round hunting & fishing (both legal season and weather)? I'm pretty sure a lot of tasty birds get the heck out of Alaska for the winter.


User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 1008 posts, RR: 2
Reply 72, posted (2 years 6 hours ago) and read 2414 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 60):
It sure does mean something up here, people are pretty brand loyal and local companies always head the list of preferred providers that Northwesterners do business with. Ask Nike, REI, Columbia Sportswear, Fred Meyer and Alaska Airlines.

Very true...AS is most definitely the hometown airline, as is Boeing is the hometown aircraft (AS will never buy Airbus...never), Nordstrom the hometown department store, Bartells the hometown drugstore, Costco the hometown big-box, Amazon the hometown web retailer, etc. People in the PNW are loyal and reward companies that employ their neighbors and themselves. AS was named the top public company in the PNW for 2012 by the Seattle Times. They are doing their best to be PDX's hometown airline as well. ANC is a given.   

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 67):
B6 will not be anything more than one in a long list of carriers that have flown, or still do, fly SEA-ANC-SEA against AS and operate one or two daily flights.

Agree...much ado about nothing. One flight a day and all of this hooplah! Others have come and gone the last 30 years on SEA-ANC....they always get their ass eventually kicked back to the lower 48. The only one I could see remotely challenging AS on this route is WN but there is so much loyality towards AS that I don't think even they could do anything but make a very small dent.



Next trip...DL RJ SEA-LAX/AM LAX-MEX Dec 23
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