SA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 2918 posts, RR: 20 Posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 67571 times:
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Part 12 of this thread garnered a lot of replies. In some cases the thread takes longer for some users to load and we have therefore started part 13. Please feel free to contribute to the thread:
trent1000 From Japan, joined Jan 2007, 423 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 67645 times:
KarelXWB reply 252 thread part 12:
MSN108 EK #27 rolled out at XFW
- MSN110 EK #29 undergoing customer flights, delivery rumoured for November 30
- MSN111 EK #30 rolled out at XFW
- MSN112 EK #31 inside the paint shop, roll out is eminent
What about MSN109? Is that #28 for EK? What stage is it at?
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26728 posts, RR: 83 Reply 4, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 67624 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 3): I'm sure it has been asked before but I haven't seen the answer. Why no MSN97?
The A380 Production List site doesn't have any information, but I wonder if it was assigned to one of the freighters? Or from a customer that cancelled a passenger plane.
Three additional weight variants - designated WV006, WV007 and WV008 - have been included in a revision of the airframer's technical information. WV008 at 575 tons is now the highest weight variant to be offered to customers.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26728 posts, RR: 83 Reply 16, posted (6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 67613 times:
Quoting EPA001 (Reply 15): Three additional weight variants - designated WV006, WV007 and WV008 - have been included in a revision of the airframer's technical information.
As I expected, WV006 is the 573t MTOW variant.
WV007 looks to be for high-density regional missions as it has the lowest MTOW (492t) and ties for the highest MZFW (395t).
The 575t WV008 equals the RTO test with 16 main braking units, so to go any higher they will need to add the final four, which would then support TOWs of upwards of 625t.
swallow From Uganda, joined Jul 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (6 months 19 hours ago) and read 66631 times:
Quoting Wolbo (Reply 18): When will the modified wing with the final fix for the crack issue go into production?
TC expects the new wing in Jan 2014, but the fix has not yet been certified by EASA. The permanent fix will restore the 380 to its full lifecycle of 90,000 hours.
Clark points out that it is key for Airbus to receive European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) certification for the new design soon. “If you are coming up with a new wing in Jan. 14, you are not far away from production start.
I'd expect production to commence later this year.
EK #45 will be the first one delivered with the new wings.
KarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 1826 posts, RR: 6 Reply 21, posted (6 months 13 hours ago) and read 66172 times:
TG has taken delivery of MSN093, their second frame.
Next up:
- MSN096 KE #6 at TLS delivery centre
- MSN100 TG #3 rolled out at XFW
- MSN108 EK #27 rolled out at XFW
- MSN110 EK #29 undergoing customer flights, delivery rumoured for November 30
- MSN111 EK #30 rolled out at XFW
- MSN112 EK #31 rolled out at XFW, rejected take-off test today
- MSN096 KE #6 at TLS delivery centre
- MSN100 TG #3 at TLS delivery centre
- MSN108 EK #27 rolled out at XFW
- MSN111 EK #30 rolled out at XFW
- MSN112 EK #31 flying from XFW
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26728 posts, RR: 83 Reply 25, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 64785 times:
Focker From Netherlands, joined Jan 2011, 119 posts, RR: 0 Reply 26, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 64843 times:
Airbus' CEO Bregier confirms in a Reuters interview that the delivery target for 2013 is less than 30.
Quote:
Airbus expects to meet a target of delivering 30 superjumbos in 2012 as it catches up from a slowdown caused by the flaws in several components on each wing. Next year, deliveries could slip below 30 before exceeding that level in 2014, Bregier said. Airbus is sticking to a breakeven goal for the A380 by 2015.
N14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2315 posts, RR: 25 Reply 27, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 65779 times:
Quoting Focker (Reply 26): Airbus' CEO Bregier confirms in a Reuters interview that the delivery target for 2013 is less than 30.
Less? Spontaneously I thought you mixed up "less" with "more than" but it's actually true. The reason might be that during summer 2012 there was a long period of time (some weeks if not months) when they had stopped the wings production and when they didn't deliver any wings to TLS and the final assembly line was almost empty. This had no affect on the 2012-production but on the 2013-production.
Some weeks ago I found a report about Airbus' supplier for the hatracks (Diehl) and they said that in 2013 they will deliver sets for 32 A 380s to XFW. However, this doesn't mean that Airbus will deliver 32 A 380s in 2013 because the sets delivered at the end of 2013 will be for 2014-deliveries.
r2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2252 posts, RR: 1 Reply 29, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 65239 times:
Interesting news on airliners.de: EFW, in charge of A300 (and future A330) freighter conversions at DRS, is bidding for A380 wing repair work. It is rumored that they could perform wing repairs of 9 EK A380's in 2013.
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2784 posts, RR: 1 Reply 32, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 63543 times:
MSN126, KE #7, har rolled out from the FAL in TLS. Used 11 weeks, which is the fastest KE frame so far
Deliveries for the next ones for EK, 108, 111 and 112 should be imminent and some of them is supposed to have had their customer acceptance flight. The same applies to MSN100, TG's #3
RickNRoll From Afghanistan, joined Jan 2012, 482 posts, RR: 0 Reply 39, posted (4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 59032 times:
From that article
"....concern a component in the aircraft’s wing is prone to cracking. Regulators are expected to approve a fix to the wing flaw early next year."
There isn't concern that a component is prone to cracking, it's a fact it's prone to cracking, and there is a manufacturing fix that has been developed for it. It would probably be in production already except that there is the approval process that has to be followed. For wings manufactured with the fault, the fix is being applied after the plane has finished manufacturing, or later at the buyers convenience.
N14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2315 posts, RR: 25 Reply 40, posted (4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 58801 times:
@ RicknRoll: I noticed the same section in that article. It's actually bad news. Airbus was hoping to get the approval at the end of this year. So I suppose they still have to build the wings acc. to the old design, meaning that with every month delay of the approval they have to repair two additional airframes (unless they stop the wing production again), correct?
Anyhow, congratulation for delivering 30 A 380s in 2012.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10697 posts, RR: 100 Reply 45, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 57044 times:
Quoting india1 (Reply 38):
Target met, 30th for the year delivered, as confirmed by Airbus -
Excellent. What is the target for 2013 after wing crack delays?
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 44): Yes, Airbus is building 2 new hangars for cabin outfitting. This is part of the production ramp-up plans.
Good to hear. That should allow for an increase in production.
EPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 3594 posts, RR: 36 Reply 46, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 56836 times:
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 44):
Yes, Airbus is building 2 new hangars for cabin outfitting
So the pressure on the cabin outfitting process can be better handled? This means no flights to Hamburg for the A380's which will be outfitted here in Toulouse?
ferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 1785 posts, RR: 57 Reply 48, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 56841 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 45): Excellent. What is the target for 2013 after wing crack delays?
On 3rd Dec at EADS GIF 2012 Bregier stated A will deliver 60 A380 over 2013-2014, slightly less 2013 as the production wing fix gets implemented and slightly more 2014. What slightly is he did not define. Another interesting point was that he maintained the 380 will become production cost positive by 2015 despite wing problems, A has made quite some progress on 380 costs (I listened to his talk to get 350 info and also caught this).
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2784 posts, RR: 1 Reply 51, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 55955 times:
MSN119, EK's 34th, had its first flight and transfer to XFW for outfitting today. In addition MSN125, TG's 5th, was confirmed as being on convoy 01/2013
kanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2469 posts, RR: 21 Reply 55, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 55657 times:
Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 52): In my very humble opinion, rather than a lack of hangar space the problem appears to be that outfitting just takes far too long.
I perhaps jumped the gun.. since outfitting is the bottleneck, I reasoned that the new building would support outfitting with more work space.. however you may be correct ...
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26728 posts, RR: 83 Reply 56, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 55640 times:
Having additional outfitting stations would allow Airbus to have more A380s in outfitting at the same time, so it should result in more A380s delivered per year, even if the outfitting time per A380 remains high.
bongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3019 posts, RR: 2 Reply 57, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 55636 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 56): Having additional outfitting stations would allow Airbus to have more A380s in outfitting at the same time, so it should result in more A380s delivered per year, even if the outfitting time per A380 remains high.
Quoting kanban (Reply 55): I perhaps jumped the gun.. since outfitting is the bottleneck, I reasoned that the new building would support outfitting with more work space.. however you may be correct ...
I'm sure that extra work space will allow faster deliveries, it is however a classic case of curing a problem by throwing money at it.
KarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 1826 posts, RR: 6 Reply 58, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 55518 times:
The plan is to ramp up the production rate to 3 frames a month somewhere in 2014. That means we should see about 36 deliveries in 2015. The FAL at TLS has already the capacity to produce about 40 frames a year, but XFW hasn't. The 2 new outfit hangers currently being constructed at XFW must help Airbus to reach that target of 3 frames a month.
The outfitting process is also accelerating. For example, MSN094 MH #5 rolled out after 11 weeks in XFW, the fastest outfitting job ever.
EPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 3594 posts, RR: 36 Reply 59, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 55298 times:
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 58): The outfitting process is also accelerating. For example, MSN094 MH #5 rolled out after 11 weeks in XFW, the fastest outfitting job ever.
That is good news. They still seem to make progress in that department, which is a very good thing for the A380-program.
thegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2613 posts, RR: 0 Reply 60, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 55298 times:
Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 57): I'm sure that extra work space will allow faster deliveries, it is however a classic case of curing a problem by throwing money at it.
Might still be an appropriate solution. They haven't been able to solve the problem of A380s taking too long outfitting yet so it's fair enough that they would increase capacity.
r2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2252 posts, RR: 1 Reply 61, posted (4 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 54987 times:
Quoting N14AZ (Reply 40): congratulation for delivering 30 A 380s in 2012.
Hitting the target and achieving a slight ramp-up respect to 2011 (26 deliveries) despite all the wing problems is definitely good news.
Quoting N14AZ (Reply 40): with every month delay of the approval they have to repair two additional airframes (unless they stop the wing production again), correct?
I see it that way too. But if the approval indeed comes this month the impact will be minimal.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 45): What is the target for 2013 after wing crack delays?
Quoting ferpe (Reply 48): On 3rd Dec at EADS GIF 2012 Bregier stated A will deliver 60 A380 over 2013-2014,
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 58): The plan is to ramp up the production rate to 3 frames a month somewhere in 2014. That means we should see about 36 deliveries in 2015.
That's not very encouraging... I hope there's a mistake in that info as it would mean an average of only 30 frames/year in 2013-14, a flat production rate. I would have expected more than that after the final wing solution is approved, with a ramp-up to 3 per month sometime in 2013.
I believe the current backlog and neverending uncertainties over production and delivery rates are holding potential A380 customers back. Achieving a stable and sustained 3/month rate sooner rather than later is essential to winning new customers IMO.
Heavierthanair From Switzerland, joined Oct 2000, 636 posts, RR: 0 Reply 62, posted (4 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 54880 times:
G'day
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 44): Yes, Airbus is building 2 new hangars for cabin outfitting. This is part of the production ramp-up plans.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 56): Having additional outfitting stations would allow Airbus to have more A380s in outfitting at the same time, so it should result in more A380s delivered per year, even if the outfitting time per A380 remains high.
Quoting ferpe (Reply 48): On 3rd Dec at EADS GIF 2012 Bregier stated A will deliver 60 A380 over 2013-2014, slightly less 2013 as the production wing fix gets implemented and slightly more 2014
So if they were maintaining present production rates as per Bregier's quote why would they build these additional hangars. Or have plans changed since they started building these additional hangars? Or else will the additional hangarage be used for the wing fixes? The 100+ airframes requiring these fixes will have to be parked somewhere indoors while the modifications are done, there are not that many suitable hangars available. Question is when will these additional hangars be completed and when is the modified hardware becoming available to actually do the fixes? After the fixes are done on the airframes that are handled by Airbus itself the hangars could be used for production increases in say 2015?
Lots of assumptions I know, but there are not too many answers out there - for A-nutters anyway
Cheers
Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26728 posts, RR: 83 Reply 63, posted (4 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 54558 times:
Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 62): Or else will the additional hangarage be used for the wing fixes?
These new hangars will not be used for wing fixes. Right now it takes so long to install the cabin on an A380 that Airbus has a backlog of completed airframes parked waiting for an open cabin outfitting position at XFW. By adding these two additional stations, Airbus can work on more A380s concurrently. So instead of being able to outfit two (?) A380s every three-four months, they can now outfit four (?).
Didn't Airbus' management analyse plans to allocate outfitting works to TLS? Well, the answer to who has won this fight is shown in the picture linked above and consists of steel beams and sandwich panels
KennyK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 478 posts, RR: 0 Reply 66, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 53655 times:
Does anyone know roughly what the 30 or so deliveries will be this year?
I know BA will be a new customer this year, Qatar was to have been but this has slipped to 2014 due to the wing crack issue and Malaysian and China Southern should have their orders completed this year.
EPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 3594 posts, RR: 36 Reply 71, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 53216 times:
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 70): 2014 will be more exciting with 4 new operators: Qatar, Asiana, Skymark and Etihad. Maybe a fifth if Air Austral will continue with the A380.
That could have an impact on the cabin outfitting times. It will be interesting to watch how far Airbus has developed that process with so many new customers for the A380. The extra outfitting facilities at XFW will be very useful then.
KarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 1826 posts, RR: 6 Reply 72, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 53196 times:
Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 67): Any further news or information on this?
The final wing fix should be approved this month. There is an approximately 10-month lead-time on the wing, so we should see the first frames with the final fix in Q4 2013.
thegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2613 posts, RR: 0 Reply 75, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 52758 times:
I make it that the backlog will theoretically be delivered mid-2020. Perhaps a bit earlier with cancellations to come such as IT. I'd think a higher production rate than 3/mth would be something they should be seeking, although I guess that depends on whether they can sell enough further frames.
BigJKU From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 714 posts, RR: 11 Reply 76, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 52623 times:
Quoting ferpe (Reply 48):
On 3rd Dec at EADS GIF 2012 Bregier stated A will deliver 60 A380 over 2013-2014, slightly less 2013 as the production wing fix gets implemented and slightly more 2014. What slightly is he did not define. Another interesting point was that he maintained the 380 will become production cost positive by 2015 despite wing problems, A has made quite some progress on 380 costs (I listened to his talk to get 350 info and also caught this).
Doing the math on this they will have delivered around 60% of the program before they are building a plane not for a cash loss on each individual unit? If R&D is 11 billion Euro's that would mean that, without interest, you need to make roughly 100 million Euro's in profit on everything left in the order book to recoup development cost? I have to think them putting more money into the outfitting side means more orders are coming because I can't see investing any more cash in the program at this point without substantially more orders coming in.
Quoting thegeek (Reply 75): I make it that the backlog will theoretically be delivered mid-2020. Perhaps a bit earlier with cancellations to come such as IT. I'd think a higher production rate than 3/mth would be something they should be seeking, although I guess that depends on whether they can sell enough further frames.
I would think you would have to see program launch of the A389 relatively soon. At the pace they are proposing Airbus is sitting on a 4-5 year backlog as of today and you have to figure the 900 would take a couple of years to put together, you would not want a production gap. Unless they slowed down production they would be looking at being done in the 2018ish time frame. That means they need the orders or they have to slow the line down to keep it operating which does not sound appealing I would not think.
thegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2613 posts, RR: 0 Reply 77, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 53067 times:
Quoting BigJKU (Reply 76): Airbus is sitting on a 4-5 year backlog as of today
Oops, must have miscalculated!
Theoretical backlog = 165
2013 expected production = 30
2014 onwards expected production = 36/year
Quoting BigJKU (Reply 76): slow the line down to keep it operating which does not sound appealing
Certainly agree with this. But the A380 has seen steady orders, as well as a mediocre production ramp up, which have kept the backlog long. Who's to say that people won't keep ordering it?
KarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 1826 posts, RR: 6 Reply 79, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 52892 times:
Quoting BigJKU (Reply 76): Doing the math on this they will have delivered around 60% of the program before they are building a plane not for a cash loss on each individual unit? If R&D is 11 billion Euro's that would mean that, without interest, you need to make roughly 100 million Euro's in profit on everything left in the order book to recoup development cost? I have to think them putting more money into the outfitting side means more orders are coming because I can't see investing any more cash in the program at this point without substantially more orders coming in.
Forget the R&D costs. Sometimes you have to invest to ensure your future. I see the A380 R&D costs as an investement for an aircraft that will generate a positive cash flow.
Quote: I would think you would have to see program launch of the A389 relatively soon. At the pace they are proposing Airbus is sitting on a 4-5 year backlog as of today and you have to figure the 900 would take a couple of years to put together, you would not want a production gap. Unless they slowed down production they would be looking at being done in the 2018ish time frame. That means they need the orders or they have to slow the line down to keep it operating which does not sound appealing I would not think.
I don't see the A389 coming before the 777X. But the big airplane itself is not the problem, the weak VLA market is currently the problem. Both Boeing and Airbus believe that they will sell more VLA aircraft again from 2014 and beyond.
scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3255 posts, RR: 10 Reply 84, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 51881 times:
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 83): In XFW, the 6th and final aircraft for MH seems to have finished outfitting and are know waiting to be painted
As I always do, I wonder if they'll order a top-up on delivery of the final one. I'm guessing probably not but it was perceived wisdon that MH didn't really need the A380 in the first place so they're doing ok getting their full order in
N14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2315 posts, RR: 25 Reply 86, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 50698 times:
I just read some new information about the wing fix issue on a German aviation forum and I thought it would be worth sharing it here:
Airbus is currently applying the final fix on MSN 095, BA #1.
Either they have the approval for the final fix, which was expected to be issued at the end of 2012 / beginning of 2013, or maybe kind of an exception to apply the final fix on an airframe currently in production (not an expert in that respect).
That's actually good news: before it was common understanding that only airframes convoyed to TLS after approval of the final fix would be delivered without any necessary repair works later on because only these airframes would have the wings built on the basis of the final fix.
The word is also that there is an "interim fix", which has been approved and which is sufficient until the middle of the life cycle of the airframe, where the most comprehensive check has to be done anyway and during which the final fix can be made.
KarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 1826 posts, RR: 6 Reply 88, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 50368 times:
Airbus said that the wing fix won't be available until October 2013 because there is a lead time of 10 months on the wing. So I'm wondering how MSN095 can have it already.
Quote: The word is also that there is an "interim fix", which has been approved and which is sufficient until the middle of the life cycle of the airframe, where the most comprehensive check has to be done anyway and during which the final fix can be made.
Airbus has an interim fix since several months now, some EK frames already have it installed.
WingedMigrator From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2025 posts, RR: 56 Reply 89, posted (4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 49929 times:
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 88): I'm wondering how MSN095 can have it already
It's a repair (restoring the item to its intended function and performance, although it will not conform to the baseline engineering drawings), as opposed to rework to the new wing standard (bringing the item into full conformance with the new baseline engineering drawings)
N14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2315 posts, RR: 25 Reply 90, posted (4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 49669 times:
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 88): Airbus said that the wing fix won't be available until October 2013 because there is a lead time of 10 months on the wing. So I'm wondering how MSN095 can have it already.
Because they are installing it right now retroactively in Finkenwerder, in parallel to the outfitting works
The statement of Airbus you are refering to refers to the "normal" production where they will apply the final fix now in the production of the wings and considering the lead time of roughly one year, deliveries starting from early 2014 will not require any interim or final fix (assuming no new issue will pop up...).
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 88): Airbus has an interim fix since several months now
I know this, of course. What was new, well, at least to me, that the interim fix lasts that long. Don't remember the previous figure but IIRC it was considerably less.
Quoting kanban (Reply 87): so will regulatory want to see some actual testing on this plane prior to delivery?
Honestly, I have no clue. Maybe someone else knows the answer to that question.
KarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 1826 posts, RR: 6 Reply 91, posted (4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 49620 times:
Off course, there is a difference between the frames currently in production and the wing production. Thanks for clearing that up.
Last December Airbus said that the fix would be certified in January 2013 so it's possible. We will probably hear more about it on January 17th. Now Qatar should advance their first delivery back to 2013
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9080 posts, RR: 13 Reply 92, posted (4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 49637 times:
Hey guys,
My apologies if this has been asked before (as I haven't followed the A380 production thread in a long time) but which new A380 operator is the next to be rolled out of the factory? Qatar Airways, Vietnam Airlines, Etihad Airways, Asiana, Skymark? Am I missing other airlines who have ordered the A380 and who still need to receive their first A380?
Also, what's the status on Hong Kong Airlines, South African Airways, Iberia and their interest in the A380? Do they (still) have an interest in the A380?
Focker From Netherlands, joined Jan 2011, 119 posts, RR: 0 Reply 93, posted (4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 49531 times:
Quoting A388 (Reply 92): My apologies if this has been asked before (as I haven't followed the A380 production thread in a long time) but which new A380 operator is the next to be rolled out of the factory? Qatar Airways, Vietnam Airlines, Etihad Airways, Asiana, Skymark? Am I missing other airlines who have ordered the A380 and who still need to receive their first A380?
BA mid of 2013 followed by QR early 2014 if I am not mistaken.
They never ordered the A 380. It was just a MoU. At that time we were joking that it would be a good moment to invest in companies active in producing dark-blue paint. Let's hope nobody took this seriously....
Finally, they are painting the MH A 380s in full colours in XFW. In particular, I love this picture. http://v2.airplaneupload.de/images-i7351bsivay.jpg
Looks a little bit like Safari Airways (for those who remember this airline...)
LH422 From Germany, joined Sep 2010, 278 posts, RR: 0 Reply 95, posted (4 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 48260 times:
So many planes delivered and still not a single special livery in sight. I'm not even comparing it to the 787. Every other widebody must have a higher ratio of special liveries per frame delivered (i.e., more than 1%). We don't even have a plane in an alliance scheme yet. Why is that so?
"The manufacturer must be submitted first to the successful implementation of the technical solution to the microcracks - it has been validated - in order to deliver aircraft smoothly in 2014. The first wing with all aluminum ribs started on the site UK Broughton mid-December for a unit of Qatar Airways."
KarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 1826 posts, RR: 6 Reply 102, posted (4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 46755 times:
Back in 2009 Vietnam Airlines is/was interested in the A380 but they couldn't firm the order because 1) they have no suitable airport for the whalejet 2) the A380 performance was not good enough and 3) there were some issues with the FAA standarts too.
Now with the 2013 facts:
1) The newLong Thanh International Airport should support the A380 but won't be ready until 2020 at least. Construction has yet to start.
2) The new 2013 improved A380 should do the job.
3) Those issues should be fixed by now.
The number of air passengers in Vietnam's airports will reach 82 million by 2020 so the A380 might work for them, but don't expect a firm order before 2018 or so. An A380 order depends on the new airport.
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2784 posts, RR: 1 Reply 103, posted (4 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 45945 times:
Some movements in TLS:
MSN127, KE's 7th, had its first flight. Stayed in TLS and didn't transfer to XFE
MSN125, TG's 5th, seems to have gone from body join to FAL1
MSN132, EK's 37th, has rolled out from FAL after 11 weeks
art From Lebanon, joined Feb 2005, 2937 posts, RR: 0 Reply 104, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 44895 times:
Airbus say that 2013 production rates will remain the same:
A320 - 42pm
A330 - 10pm
A380 - 3pm
The A380 production rate of three aircraft per month will not increase in 2013 as the manufacturer deals with the wing crack issue and weak demand for very large aircraft (VLA).
“But we have enough flexibility in the A380 system and we can increase production any time if necessary,” - Airbus COO Guenter Butschek.
To me it sounds like he is saying that Airbus is currently able to build and outfit 33 A380's a year and could increase that rate fairly easily. Have they found a way to accelerate outfitting, I wonder?
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2784 posts, RR: 1 Reply 105, posted (3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 44006 times:
Yesterday MSN126, KE's #7, was transfered to XFW for outfitting, while MSN094, MH's #5, went the opposite way and is now in TLS for final preparations before delivery
r2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2252 posts, RR: 1 Reply 106, posted (3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 44030 times:
Quoting art (Reply 104): it sounds like he is saying that Airbus is currently able to build and outfit 33 A380's a year and could increase that rate fairly easily. Have they found a way to accelerate outfitting, I wonder?
As mentioned above, 2 new outfitting hangars are being built at XFW. So while the total outfitting time may not be significantly reduced, there will be more capacity to outfit more a/c at the same time, thus giving more ramp-up flexibility. But indeed it seems that at least for 2013 things will stay as they are in terms of production rates and deliveries, to our disappointment :-/
art From Lebanon, joined Feb 2005, 2937 posts, RR: 0 Reply 107, posted (3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 43643 times:
Quoting r2rho (Reply 106): But indeed it seems that at least for 2013 things will stay as they are in terms of production rates and deliveries, to our disappointment
It takes nearly a year from convoy of parts to delivery IIRC. That means an average of about 3 complete frames convoyed each month in 2013 to achieve 3 deliveries per month in 2014. It will be interesting to see what the convoy rate is in the next few months.
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2784 posts, RR: 1 Reply 108, posted (3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 42647 times:
MSN136, EK's 40th, is being confirmed on convoy 4/2013.
MSN114, the sixth and last to MH, has finished outfitting in XFW, while MSN121, BA's 2nd, has done its RTO in TLS and should soon transfer to XFW for outfitting
KL5147 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 301 posts, RR: 0 Reply 115, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 40186 times:
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 113): MSN120 CZ #5 should be next (99th). Number 100 could be MSN113 (EK #32), MSN114 (MH #6) or MSN122 (TG 4).
What about MSN115 (intended for AF)? it won't be #100 but it seems to be a long time in FAL. It left Langon for road transport to Toulouse on august 17th.
caliatenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1133 posts, RR: 0 Reply 118, posted (3 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 39335 times:
will the new EK 380's have the range to do DXB to the US West Coast?
r2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2252 posts, RR: 1 Reply 119, posted (3 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 38839 times:
Quoting caliatenza (Reply 118): will the new EK 380's have the range to do DXB to the US West Coast?
Very possibly, but only those assembled after MSN95, BA's first, and the first aircraft introducing a higher MTOW and other tweaks like a wing twist change. It's not about having the range, but about the range to do it with a meaningful payload for EK. If those couple extra tons MTOW are enough, I guess we'll find out through future EK route annoucements
jumpjet From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 218 posts, RR: 0 Reply 120, posted (3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 37898 times:
A few daft questions please...
Anyone any idea when the first BA A380 will emerge from the paintshop? Is the interior fully fitted out before paint and how many BA airframes are now "complete"?
art From Lebanon, joined Feb 2005, 2937 posts, RR: 0 Reply 122, posted (3 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 37546 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 121): BA performs cabin outfitting (at least for the premium cabins) at Cardiff so I would guess this would be the case for the A380
If it still takes Airbus a long time to outfit an A380 after doing it 100 times, how long would it take BA with no previous experience?
Tristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3694 posts, RR: 34 Reply 123, posted (3 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 37374 times:
Quoting art (Reply 122): If it still takes Airbus a long time to outfit an A380 after doing it 100 times, how long would it take BA with no previous experience?
You are comparing apples and oranges.
BA installs the premium seats at Cardiff, the Boeings arrive with all the wall and ceiling panels and PSUs etc fitted.
But I believe the A380 is being fully fitted at XFW, all the A320 fleet are.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10697 posts, RR: 100 Reply 126, posted (3 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 36965 times:
Quoting N14AZ (Reply 86): Airbus is currently applying the final fix on MSN 095, BA #1.
Either they have the approval for the final fix, which was expected to be issued at the end of 2012 / beginning of 2013, or maybe kind of an exception to apply the final fix on an airframe currently in production (not an expert in that respect).
Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 89): It's a repair (restoring the item to its intended function and performance, although it will not conform to the baseline engineering drawings), as opposed to rework to the new wing standard (bringing the item into full conformance with the new baseline engineering drawings)
Just to clarify, it sounds like this will be built *at risk* with the "permanent repair" instead of the new wing? Its perfectly legal to make an aircraft off drawing to a new as yet un-certified standard. But there is a risk that they must be brought to a new standard to enter commercial service. (The best example would be the 'terrible teen 787s.')
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 102): 1) The newLong Thanh International Airport should support the A380 but won't be ready until 2020 at least.
And then domestic flights will be split... I am not in favor of split hubs. That pushes connections elsewhere (I've yet to see 'easy enough' domestic transfers for the 1st time traveler between airports.).
Quoting EPA001 (Reply 114): The first century is coming up. Though much later the originally anticipated, it will still be quite a memorable moment.
N14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2315 posts, RR: 25 Reply 127, posted (3 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 37376 times:
Quoting petera380 (Reply 125): I believe Airbus had a hand in shutting it down!
Is that really true? I mean they didn't do anything illegal there so an which basis would Airbus be able to threaten them?
Spotting movements in TLS and in XFW is not illegal, nor is it to take photos during the convoy when the fuselage parts pass this little village in France.
I thought it was rather about the fees for keeping the forum online.
Any information would be highly appreciated. Anyway, thank you for your good work in the last years.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 121): BA performs cabin outfitting (at least for the premium cabins) at Cardiff so I would guess this would be the case for the A380.
Did they make this for all their recent B 777 deliveries?
Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 123): But I believe the A380 is being fully fitted at XFW, all the A320 fleet are.
I also would be suprised if they didn't do it in XFW. It would be the first A 380-operator that completes the cabin outfitting on his own. But who knows.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26728 posts, RR: 83 Reply 128, posted (3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 37312 times:
Quoting N14AZ (Reply 127): Did they make this for all their recent B 777 deliveries?
Yes. Boeing delivered the planes with the World Traveller Plus and World Traveller cabins installed. BA Engineering than handled installation of First Class and Club World at Cardiff.
jumpjet From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 218 posts, RR: 0 Reply 129, posted (3 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 36998 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 128): Yes. Boeing delivered the planes with the World Traveller Plus and World Traveller cabins installed. BA Engineering than handled installation of First Class and Club World at Cardiff.
So, can anyone confirm that this is going to happen with the BA A380s? Sounds a bit improbable to me!
S when is the first BA A380 going to be emerging from the paintshop and is the normal way of doing things to fully outfit the interior before final paint?
ZKCIF From Lithuania, joined Oct 2010, 226 posts, RR: 0 Reply 130, posted (3 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 36784 times:
Quoting jumpjet (Reply 129): S when is the first BA A380 going to be emerging from the paintshop and is the normal way of doing things to fully outfit the interior before final paint?
Hard to say but the plane will be delivered in June 2013 if it helps
Bongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3019 posts, RR: 2 Reply 131, posted (3 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 36825 times:
Quoting jumpjet (Reply 129): Quoting Stitch (Reply 128):
Yes. Boeing delivered the planes with the World Traveller Plus and World Traveller cabins installed. BA Engineering than handled installation of First Class and Club World at Cardiff.
So, can anyone confirm that this is going to happen with the BA A380s? Sounds a bit improbable to me!
Silly question, but is Cardiff maintenance A380 compatible space wise, and secondly with the BA long haul fleet gradually expanding at what point does Cardiff run out of capacity ?
N14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2315 posts, RR: 25 Reply 132, posted (3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 36606 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 128): Yes. Boeing delivered the planes with the World Traveller Plus and World Traveller cabins installed. BA Engineering than handled installation of First Class and Club World at Cardiff.
Thanks for the information.
Quoting jumpjet (Reply 129): is the normal way of doing things to fully outfit the interior before final paint?
So far we saw two approaches. A - painting after cabin outfitting or B - cabin outfitting interrupted for two weeks for painting.
The latter is most probably to optimize the utilization of the painting facilities.
Quoting jumpjet (Reply 129): So when is the first BA A380 going to be emerging from the paintshop
If delivery is planned for the end of June I would say roll-out from the painting hangar at the end of April at the latest.
jumpjet From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 218 posts, RR: 0 Reply 133, posted (3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 36593 times:
Quoting N14AZ (Reply 132): So far we saw two approaches. A - painting after cabin outfitting or B - cabin outfitting interrupted for two weeks for painting.
The latter is most probably to optimize the utilization of the painting facilities.
Quoting jumpjet (Reply 129):
So when is the first BA A380 going to be emerging from the paintshop
If delivery is planned for the end of June I would say roll-out from the painting hangar at the end of April at the latest.
KarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 1826 posts, RR: 6 Reply 134, posted (3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 36720 times:
The first BA A380 (MSN095) is now in its 15th outfit-week since arrival at XFW. Outfitting usually takes ~ 17 weeks for a new customer, so I expect the roll out somewhere next month. However, MSN095 will also undergo wing repair but it's not clear to me if this will be done in XFW or TLS. Depending on this issue the roll out might last longer.
jumpjet From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 218 posts, RR: 0 Reply 135, posted (3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 36459 times:
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 134): The first BA A380 (MSN095) is now in its 15th outfit-week since arrival at XFW. Outfitting usually takes ~ 17 weeks for a new customer, so I expect the roll out somewhere next month. However, MSN095 will also undergo wing repair but it's not clear to me if this will be done in XFW or TLS. Depending on this issue the roll out might last longer.
Should be worth the wait. I always think it's quite exciting to see a new airliner in the livery of a new customer airline. As BA is something of a national icon in the UK as it's the "flag carrier", it'll be something of a landmark occasion. I went up to LHR especially for the first ever visit of an A380 when a test aircraft landed. I remember all the A-Netters at the Green Man pub with their laptops racing to get the first photo on the web!
I'll do my best to be there when the first BA A380 lands at it's home base...
speedygonzales From Norway, joined Sep 2007, 669 posts, RR: 0 Reply 137, posted (3 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 35522 times:
Quoting N14AZ (Reply 127): Is that really true? I mean they didn't do anything illegal there so an which basis would Airbus be able to threaten them?
Spotting movements in TLS and in XFW is not illegal, nor is it to take photos during the convoy when the fuselage parts pass this little village in France.
It might have been due to copyright issues as that blog was notorious for using Airbus' and other people's pictures without giving credit or obtaining permission.
KL5147 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 301 posts, RR: 0 Reply 140, posted (3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 34959 times:
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 139): MSN094 was delivered around February 7 but the delivery flight to KUL was today
I saw a MH A380 at Finkenwerder Monday Feb 18th. She made one take off roll but did not get airborne. It then returned to the facility again. (I could not read the regi, nor the MSN #, but guess this was MSN 094)
There was also a CZ A380 on the ramp.
Tuesday 19th I saw the MH bird climb out and on Wednesday Feb 20, no A380's were seen at EDHI / XFW.
mjoelnir From Iceland, joined Feb 2013, 362 posts, RR: 0 Reply 141, posted (3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 34896 times:
Quoting KL5147 (Reply 140): I saw a MH A380 at Finkenwerder Monday Feb 18th. She made one take off roll but did not get airborne. It then returned to the facility again. (I could not read the regi, nor the MSN #, but guess this was MSN 094)
You saw a rejected take of, it is a test. It could be the next MH MSN 114.
MSN 094 was at that time at the delivery centre in TLS.
ZKCIF From Lithuania, joined Oct 2010, 226 posts, RR: 0 Reply 142, posted (3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 34911 times:
Quoting speedygonzales (Reply 137): It might have been due to copyright issues as that blog was notorious for using Airbus' and other people's pictures without giving credit or obtaining permission.
if Airbus contributed to the end of the blog, they were not wise. have you ever seen a band or a sports team trying to ban a fan club promoting them?
mjoelnir From Iceland, joined Feb 2013, 362 posts, RR: 0 Reply 143, posted (3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 34910 times:
Quoting speedygonzales (Reply 137):
Quoting N14AZ (Reply 127):
Is that really true? I mean they didn't do anything illegal there so an which basis would Airbus be able to threaten them?
Spotting movements in TLS and in XFW is not illegal, nor is it to take photos during the convoy when the fuselage parts pass this little village in France.
It might have been due to copyright issues as that blog was notorious for using Airbus' and other people's pictures without giving credit or obtaining permission.
I followed the blog and forum and posted a few times pictures and videos were usually by the guys themselves or it was a link.
If you would be right, than in comparison A-Net should be down a long time ago.
KarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 1826 posts, RR: 6 Reply 144, posted (3 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 34767 times:
Quoting KL5147 (Reply 140): I saw a MH A380 at Finkenwerder Monday Feb 18th. She made one take off roll but did not get airborne. It then returned to the facility again. (I could not read the regi, nor the MSN #, but guess this was MSN 094)
Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 141): You saw a rejected take of, it is a test. It could be the next MH MSN 114.
KarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 1826 posts, RR: 6 Reply 145, posted (3 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 34847 times:
Quoting ZKCIF (Reply 142): if Airbus contributed to the end of the blog, they were not wise. have you ever seen a band or a sports team trying to ban a fan club promoting them?
Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 143): I followed the blog and forum and posted a few times pictures and videos were usually by the guys themselves or it was a link.
If you would be right, than in comparison A-Net should be down a long time ago.
Airbus did not shut down the a380production blog, I believe the owner has found other interests. A new production forum has been created at http://doubledecker.boards.net/
mjoelnir From Iceland, joined Feb 2013, 362 posts, RR: 0 Reply 146, posted (3 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 34403 times:
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 145): Airbus did not shut down the a380production blog, I believe the owner has found other interests. A new production forum has been created at http://doubledecker.boards.net/
KarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 1826 posts, RR: 6 Reply 148, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 32645 times:
MSN138 EK 42th has been confirmed as the new frame carried on the latest convoy. 3 more frames to go and EK will have half of their A380 order.
11 frames for EK are now in various stages of assembly:
- MSN113 #32 rolled out in XFW
- MSN116 #33 cabin outfitting in XFW
- MSN119 #34 cabin outfitting in XFW
- MSN123 #35 cabin outfitting in XFW
- MSN132 #36 cabin outfitting in XFW
- MSN127 #37 undergoing final assembly in TLS
- MSN133 #38 undergoing final assembly in TLS
- MSN134 #39 undergoing final assembly in TLS
- MSN135 #40 undergoing final assembly in TLS
- MSN136 #41 undergoing body join in TLS
- MSN138 #42 awaiting body join in TLS
scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3255 posts, RR: 10 Reply 150, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 31619 times:
Is the boat still stuck on the sandbank outside Mostyn - when I took the kids to the beach last Sunday it was still there - it's got to be really hurting now if it's still out of action.
mjoelnir From Iceland, joined Feb 2013, 362 posts, RR: 0 Reply 151, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 31611 times:
Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 150): Is the boat still stuck on the sandbank outside Mostyn - when I took the kids to the beach last Sunday it was still there - it's got to be really hurting now if it's still out of action.
r2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2252 posts, RR: 1 Reply 158, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 28470 times:
Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 151): Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 150):
Is the boat still stuck on the sandbank outside Mostyn - when I took the kids to the beach last Sunday it was still there - it's got to be really hurting now if it's still out of action.
It was refloated on the 9th of February.
Interestingly, this ship was also the first carrying A400M wings from Filton. Due to the definitive closure of FZO by BAE, Airbus can no longer fly the Beluga there, so A400M wings will be sent by road to Royal Portbury dock, where they are loaded onto the ro-ro vessels. So apparently A380 and A400M wings will be sharing the ride from now on.
hannahpa From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 113 posts, RR: 0 Reply 161, posted (2 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 27074 times:
I know this has been discussed adnausium, but every time I see any information on the A380, I ask myself: When are they going to build the 380-900??? I just cant wait to see that bahemouth in the air, let alone get a chance to fly in it....
Please bear with me. I am like a kid in a candy store when it comes to this subject.
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6631 posts, RR: 17 Reply 162, posted (2 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 26688 times:
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 131): with the BA long haul fleet gradually expanding at what point does Cardiff run out of capacity ?
This may have already happened. For example 744 G-BNLI positioned to SIN on 13 January for heavy maintenance. It returned to LHR on 3 March. G-CIVC then positioned to SIN for maintenance the following day, 4 March.
sf260 From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 136 posts, RR: 0 Reply 166, posted (2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 24658 times:
I think Airbus can launch it as early as (Le Bourget) 2017 with EIS for 2020-22, with (slightly) updated engines for -800 and -900. Most of A350 and A320neo engineering should be finished (not that the -900 derivative requires that much work) and A380 production should be as streamlined as it can get by 2017.
Current order book dries up around 2018 and I see no airline in a hurry to order large quatities soon (except TK and some smaller follow-on orders). I can see some current A380 operators start thinking about A380 replacement by the end of this decade, and these will also be the most likely candidates for the -900.
The 'problem' is the current -800 is just 'too good' and has almost no competition, Airbus is not in a hurry to launch the -900 as it will only cannibalize -800 sales for the moment. Then there is also the current economic climate and production issues which are not helping either.
Semaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 769 posts, RR: 2 Reply 167, posted (2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 24369 times:
So which operators are interested in a -900?
Out of my head I can remember LH stating they have an interest, EK wouldn't be a hard guess and CX would in fact only order the bigger jet.
Is that it or were there more?
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
sf260 From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 136 posts, RR: 0 Reply 168, posted (2 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 24138 times:
Off the top of my head, LH, AF, EK, CX, VS (fwiw) and SUH have all publicly stated they are interested in a larger variant. I can imagine other airlines like BA and SQ also showing interest in the -900 by the end of this decade, for EIS 2022-2025, as well as some Chinese carriers.
ZKCIF From Lithuania, joined Oct 2010, 226 posts, RR: 0 Reply 170, posted (2 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 23095 times:
A little overview of where we stand is due.
Prior to January 1, 2013 we had 97 deliveries. With the completion of Convoy 11 it looks like we can know what will be delivered in 2013 as there is a long long break befoe Convoy 12 starts, and the new frame will hardly make it this year.
In short, in the most optimistic scenario this year will see 25 deliveries (in comparison with 30 we saw in 2012). this is of course the consequence of the wing crack issue.
The change during this year should be:
EK 31+13=44
SQ 19-------19
QF 12--------12
LH 10--------10
AF 8+1=9
KE 6+2=8
MH 4+2=6 (both already delivered)
TG 3+3=6 (the first of those may be ferried to BKK before the weekend, already wearing HS-TUD reg.)
CZ 4+1=5 (already delivered)
BA 0+3=3
What to think of MSN 002, I just don't know.
Some people (who are likely to be in the know) write http://doubledecker.boards.net/thread/321/2014-deliveries that 4 EK frames may have deliveries shifted to 2014 because of wing fixes. Of course, in this case we will only get 21 deliveries this year and will thus reach 118 rather than 122.
It is highly likely that the next frame to be convoyed is MSN137, #1 Qatar which is the one with the permanent wing fix.
Is this end of year target chasing? If so, what's the point - it looks like it just reduces the following year's Q1 figures. I imagine it would be more efficient for production to run more smoothly.
JValjean From Belgium, joined Mar 2013, 47 posts, RR: 1 Reply 173, posted (2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 22097 times:
Quoting art (Reply 172): Is this end of year target chasing? If so, what's the point - it looks like it just reduces the following year's Q1 figures. I imagine it would be more efficient for production to run more smoothly.
Perhaps it might be a means of avoiding/minimizing significant financial penalties (i.e. penalties > potential savings derived from increased production efficiency) that would otherwise be due to customers if deliveries "slip" into a later quarter than has been contractually stipulated.
thegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2613 posts, RR: 0 Reply 174, posted (2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 22052 times:
Quoting ZKCIF (Reply 170): In short, in the most optimistic scenario this year will see 25 deliveries (in comparison with 30 we saw in 2012). this is of course the consequence of the wing crack issue.
Interesting. So is there a realistic chance of reaching 3 per month in 2014?
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 175, posted (2 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 22062 times:
Quoting thegeek (Reply 169): Some people (who are likely to be in the know) write http://doubledecker.boards.net/thread/321/2014-deliveries that 4 EK frames may have deliveries shifted to 2014 because of wing fixes. Of course, in this case we will only get 21 deliveries this year and will thus reach 118 rather than 122.
Emirates has stated that it will put 9 frames into operation during 2013, so your information of 10 frames delivered to EK in 2013 is likely correct as frame #10 will more than likely be put into operation on 01JAN14.
KarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 1826 posts, RR: 6 Reply 181, posted (2 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 20411 times:
Lufthansa Technik has been carrying out a full-life repair on one of the German carrier's A380s at Frankfurt since February, and says the work takes 40-50 days.
LH422 From Germany, joined Sep 2010, 278 posts, RR: 0 Reply 182, posted (2 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 20141 times:
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 181): Lufthansa Technik has been carrying out a full-life repair on one of the German carrier's A380s at Frankfurt since February, and says the work takes 40-50 days.
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6631 posts, RR: 17 Reply 188, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18889 times:
I think - but do not know - that the reason BA has either installed the premium class seats in new long-haul aircraft or had them installed by Marshalls Aerospace at CBG (Cambridge) is that the seats concerned were of European manufacture. So transporting them to PAE and then back to LHR on delivery was more costly than installing them on the eastern side of the Atlantic after delivery.
I think this all started with the delivery of 744 G-CIVP back in early 1998 just after BA had launched their 1st generation lie-flat J Class seat. That aircraft was ferried PAE-CBG to Marshalls on delivery on 17 February 1998 . I think all of the remaining sixteen BA 744s followed it directly to CBG to be fitted with the new J Class seat with the exception of G-CIVT that I believe had its seats fitted by BA at LHR.
Much more recently BA fitted the F and J Class seats to its small fleet of 77Ws after they were ferried PAE-CWL on delivery.
So I expect that all the seats will be fitted in the BA 380s at XFW. But I think that the two 77Ws scheduled to be delivered in September and November and the first of the 787s will have their J and, where appropriate, F Class seats fitted by BA at CWL after delivery.
KarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 1826 posts, RR: 6 Reply 189, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 18751 times:
Quoting jumpjet (Reply 187): Not long to wait then before we see the finished article in all it's glory!
How long will it be in the paint shop?
A week or so.
Latest information however says that BA won't pull it to the flightline but instead keep it inside until the official roll-out ceremony. So it may take a while before we will see it.
Also, David Kaminski-Morrow from Flightglobal just tweeted this:
Quote: Little bird tells me British Airways is considering a proposition to fly its first #Airbus #A380 at the Paris Air Show. #PAS13
Tristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3694 posts, RR: 34 Reply 191, posted (1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 17818 times:
Quoting VV701 (Reply 188): So I expect that all the seats will be fitted in the BA 380s at XFW. But I think that the two 77Ws scheduled to be delivered in September and November and the first of the 787s will have their J and, where appropriate, F Class seats fitted by BA at CWL after delivery.
I have seen pictures taken at Hamburg of the BA A380 with Club seats installed, and the B787 at Seattle also with Club seats installed.
The same source (internal BA) says the A380 will leave the paint bay on April 15.
Semaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 769 posts, RR: 2 Reply 199, posted (1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 15068 times:
Quoting MWHCVT (Reply 197): Best looking A380 ever hands down
I'll decide when (if?) the VN bird comes out of the paint hangar
But I must give credit to BA, they've done a good job. The only tiny bit I would change is the shade of blue. Darker would be nice.
So which paintjob are we going to see next for a first on the A380? QR, EY, OZ or something completely different?
// edit
on second thought.... I will absolutely Love the Qatar livery!
[Edited 2013-04-07 12:18:26]
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10697 posts, RR: 100 Reply 200, posted (1 month 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14504 times:
Aviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 234 posts, RR: 4 Reply 201, posted (1 month 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 14191 times:
Hello
It could have been better with a more refined wing to body joint ... The grey of the wings is interrupting the blue belly line unfortunately (in my opinion)
bongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3019 posts, RR: 2 Reply 202, posted (1 month 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 14434 times:
Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 201): It could have been better with a more refined wing to body joint ... The grey of the wings is interrupting the blue belly line unfortunately (in my opinion)
From the side you are right, if however you were looking up in the sky as it flies overhead the blue and grey will look correct. Taking the blue higher up onto the fairing, would then spread it outwards when viewed in flight.
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6631 posts, RR: 17 Reply 203, posted (1 month 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 14420 times:
Quoting Semaex (Reply 199): The only tiny bit I would change is the shade of blue. Darker would be nice.
This is likely a function of the colour temperature of the night time lighting.
Overcast daylight has a colour temperature of around 5,500 degrees Kelvin (the colour of a black body heated to 5,500 degrees Absolute or Kelvin).
Blue sky daylight can have a much higher colour temperature - 15.000 to 25,000 degrees Kelvin or even higher.
But photoflood lighting has a low colour temperature of around 3,200 degrees Kelvin and this is visually significantly different to daylight.
Variations in the colour of the illumination will change the apparent appearance of many different colours. So if you are trying to match colours, view the items you are trying to match under the lighting conditions they are most likely to be seen in. Two items that look to match in daylight can look very different to each other in tungsten light. Indeed back in the days of silver halide colour film the manufacturers produced two different types of colour positive (slide or cine) film "Daylight" (for daylight or electronic flash) and "Type A" (for 3,200 degree tungsten lighting). Hence "Kodachrome II" and "Kodachrome II Type A".
I am sure that the blue paint used by BA on their 380s will be the same as that used of all their other frames. It will look darker in daylight.
art From Lebanon, joined Feb 2005, 2937 posts, RR: 0 Reply 204, posted (1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 14327 times:
Sorry if this is a bit off the current topic (A380 livery production). Regarding thw wing fix:
Quote: Work still is being performed on these aircraft, he adds. Last month, Lufthansa Technik Chairman August Wilhelm Henningsen told Aviation Week that the company was carrying out the permanent wing feet repairs on one of Lufthansa’s A380s at its Frankfurt facility, and that the retrofit takes 40 to 50 days.
The MRO division of the Lufthansa Group has contracts to perform the permanent retrofits on 31 A380s: 10 from Lufthansa’s fleet, 12 for Qantas and nine for Emirates Airline.
The work on the Qantas A380 fleet will be conducted at Lufthansa Technik’s facility in Manila, while Ameco Beijing will carry out the Emirates retrofits.
Air France Industries KLM Engineering & Maintenance, meanwhile, says it may perform permanent retrofits on Air France’s A380; until now, the temporary wing repairs of Air France’s fleet have been “mostly handed over to Airbus,” says AFI KLM E&M
40-50 days is a long time out of service but perhaps that is the time it would take for any company to do the work. I wonder how much it will cost Airbus to compensate airlines for roughly 100 x 40-50 days = 4,000-5,000 days loss of service + cost of doing the work if Airbus does not do it.
bongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3019 posts, RR: 2 Reply 205, posted (1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 14291 times:
Quoting art (Reply 204): 40-50 days is a long time out of service but perhaps that is the time it would take for any company to do the work. I wonder how much it will cost Airbus to compensate airlines for roughly 100 x 40-50 days = 4,000-5,000 days loss of service + cost of doing the work if Airbus does not do it.
It was mentioned a while back that the work would be done in conjunction with a major check. I know that BA takes about 30 days to do a D check on a 744, on that basis its not a huge extra amount of down time.
queb From Canada, joined May 2010, 380 posts, RR: 0 Reply 206, posted (1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 14074 times:
Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 205): It was mentioned a while back that the work would be done in conjunction with a major check. I know that BA takes about 30 days to do a D check on a 744, on that basis its not a huge extra amount of down time.
the first A380 structural check is due after 6000 flight hours, they can not wait so long.
bongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3019 posts, RR: 2 Reply 207, posted (1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14021 times:
Quoting queb (Reply 206): the first A380 structural check is due after 6000 flight hours, they can not wait so long.
Why not, after all many of the early 380's are way beyond 6000 hours now. Airbus was reported in January as offering a repair schedule that could be incorporated into the planes next C check. If the cut off tiem for the repair was 6000 hours there would be a lot of grounded 380's now, as thats only about 16 months utilisation.
747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 1789 posts, RR: 11 Reply 211, posted (1 month 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12297 times:
According several sources Air France has negotiated a delivery delay of four A380 aircraft (two scheduled for 2013 and two for 2014), also one option has been cancelled.
KarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 1826 posts, RR: 6 Reply 213, posted (1 month 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12187 times:
I read the article and I'm wondering where they get that information. Air France last 2 units were already postponed until 2016 (a year ago). This is the current schedule I have:
- MSN115: 2013 delivery, currently in XFW for outfitting
- MSN117: 2014 delivery, will be on one of the next convoys
- MSN??? & MSN???: 2016 delivery, numbers not yet allocated
KarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 1826 posts, RR: 6 Reply 214, posted (1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 11884 times:
Ok, it seems like the Dutch websites have translated it incorrectly (as usual ).
Quote: Discussions therefore focus on four copies, which should be initially delivered in spring 2013 (for the 9th and 10th copies) in 2014 and for the last two. Asked Air France said finalizing discussions for the delivery of the ninth A380 is shifted to September 2013 as the tenth is in April 2014.
MSN115 AF #9 will be delivered in September 2013
MSN117 AF #10 will be delivered in April 2014
The delivery of MSN115 shifted a few months to September 2013 while MSN117 slips from 2013 into 2014, that also explains why the convoy of MSN117 is later than expected. And the last 2 units of the order of 12 will be delivered 'later', but as far as I know that has always been 2016.
KarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 1826 posts, RR: 6 Reply 215, posted (1 month 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11430 times:
MSN5001, the fatigue test frame, is now being slowly dismantled. The fatigue testing comes to an end.
Quote: Nach 8 Jahren Ermüdungstest des A380 bei der IMA/IABG in Dresden, wird dieser nun langsam demontiert. Der lange Zeitraum zeigt die Komplexität der neuen Werkstoffe und Konstruktion, und der damit verbundenen Probleme bzw. der neu eingeschlagenen Wege in der Luftfahrt.
Interessant dürft noch einmal der Abtransport der einzelnen Zellen werden, es sei denn, es wird alles fein säuberlich vor Ort zerlegt.
Translated:
Quote: After 8 years of fatigue testing of the A380 at the IMA / IABG in Dresden, this is now being slowly dismantled. The long period shows the complexity of the new materials and construction, and the associated problems and the newly chosen path in aviation. Dared to be interesting again, the removal of the individual cells, unless it is all disassembled neatly on the ground.
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2784 posts, RR: 1 Reply 216, posted (1 month 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10751 times:
Yesterday, both MSN127 (EK #37) and MSN131 (TG #6) had their first engine runs. So first flight and transfer to XFW shouldn't be that far away. MSN116 (EK #33) had its first cabin flight, so on schedule for a May delivery
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9080 posts, RR: 13 Reply 219, posted (1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9399 times:
Quoting queb (Reply 218): The vertical tail section for the first A380 for Qatar Airways has been painted.
That tail looks really small compared to the guys walking in front of it but I'm sure that's just the obtical illusion (the tail is probably much further away than you think it is on the photo).
In any case, that QR 380 will be one of the best looking 380's yet. I also love the BA 380
Unflug From Germany, joined Jan 2012, 191 posts, RR: 0 Reply 223, posted (1 month 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9008 times:
Quoting A388 (Reply 219): That tail looks really small compared to the guys walking in front of it but I'm sure that's just the obtical illusion (the tail is probably much further away than you think it is on the photo).
If you look at the building you see that the camera view is not horizontal, it is looking upwards...
travelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1381 posts, RR: 5 Reply 225, posted (1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8752 times:
Quoting A388 (Reply 219): That tail looks really small compared to the guys walking in front of it but I'm sure that's just the obtical illusion (the tail is probably much further away than you think it is on the photo).
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26728 posts, RR: 83 Reply 230, posted (3 weeks 1 day 16 hours 3 minutes ago) and read 6681 times:
Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 229): Heres a question, did the fatigue frame pick up the wing cracking issue?
As I understand it, the cracks were discovered during the inspection of the QF31 airframe after the engine failure.
na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9616 posts, RR: 10 Reply 247, posted (1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2334 times:
Why are new Airbus planes always painted so patchily in different shades of green coating? Cant they decide on a single colour? It does look unprofessional and like a low quality product.
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Hitting the target and achieving a slight ramp-up respect to 2011 (26 deliveries) despite all the wing problems is definitely good news.
I hope there's a mistake in that info as it would mean an average of only 30 frames/year in 2013-14, a flat production rate. I would have expected more than that after the final wing solution is approved, with a ramp-up to 3 per month sometime in 2013. 
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