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What's Going On In CLE?  
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1038 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10034 times:

Parking
- What is the fate of the long term City onsite parking lot? It's crumbling badly.
- Haven't heard lately about the CIty purchasing the Sheraton and tearing it down for a new long term parking lot? That was something we heard from Airport management as a possibility.

UA
- They aren't pulling out as everyone on a.net predicted
- Few new destinations added: OKC, BNA, etc. Any others for 2013?
- Other UA updates?

Others:
- Frontier adding DEN
- DL added LGA
- Will WN remain or go all in at CAK?

Facility:
- New construction of the ATC tower updates?
- 2013 volume projections? Ohio just announced 6.9% unemployment so things are going in the right direction.
- Will the opening of Medical Mart in October 2013 mean anything to CLE?
- Onsite gas station by the rental car return center?

102 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 715 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 10063 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Thread starter):
Ohio just announced 6.9% unemployment so things are going in the right direction.

and the CLE metro area has a 6.5% unemployment rate, placing it # 129 out of 372, lowest to highest, for the period ending September 2012 ranking :

http://www.bls.gov/web/metro/laummtrk.htm

I'm liking where we rank compared to many of the A.netter "darling" cities, but ignorant A.netters will continue to cling to the 30 year old image of the so called "rustbelt" bestowed upon the region primarily due to steel industry reduction decades ago.

UA opinion: substituting destinations similar to the way CO always did and getting a little publicity, beyond that, no news is good news for now.

Medical Mart won't increase CLE O&D to a measurable amount. CLE is in the middle of a huge population base more easily accessed by driving rather than facing the cost effectiveness of CLE being a high airfare airport and the overall increase in travel time from A to B via airlines, whether it be due to connections or security, etc... Probably the biggest impacts that generate relatively low O&D for a metro area it's size, except for the CAK alternative and to an extent PIT ((both airports advertise in the market)

Glad there's been a couple blips of new service from DL and F9, first such stuff in years


User currently offlinen797mx From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 208 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10063 times:

I just flew out of CLE last week and through the Bravo yesterday and I can attest it it pretty dead there comparatively. I was there for three hours and only saw maybe ten planes take off or land in that period. IMO I think it should be a Class C airport since not many go in and out.

Frontier only added DEN to CLE because WN moved into CAK with flights to Denver and were underpricing them.

WN should remain at CLE because I don't think CAK has the capacity to handle what Southwest would bring. Plus the flight students at Kent State University fly into there all the time and it would cause some delays they wouldn't like... (Not my fault )



Clear skies and strong tail winds.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25147 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10057 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting n797mx (Reply 2):
Frontier only added DEN to CLE because WN moved into CAK with flights to Denver and were underpricing them.

Sorry, no.

The switch from CAK to CLE because Frontier has to have at aircraft at CLE for the CUN/PUJ services and it was expensive to split it over two airports. It previously had to fly non-revs to get the aircraft to CLE.

mariner

[Edited 2012-11-18 15:41:28]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8234 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10050 times:

Quoting n797mx (Reply 2):
IMO I think it should be a Class C airport since not many go in and out.

LOL because airspace classes are determined by the number of jets a kid can spot from the terminal in a specific period of time.

Quoting n797mx (Reply 2):
Frontier only added DEN to CLE because WN moved into CAK with flights to Denver and were underpricing them.

That actually has nothing to do with it. F9 moved to CLE to better compliment their long-term charter contract.

Quoting n797mx (Reply 2):
Plus the flight students at Kent State University fly into there all the time and it would cause some delays they wouldn't like...

I think it's more likely to be the other way around.



[Edited 2012-11-18 15:55:22]


This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6125 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10050 times:

Quoting n797mx (Reply 2):
WN should remain at CLE because I don't think CAK has the capacity to handle what Southwest would bring



A whole concourse to themselves, 4 gates, ticket counter space as needed, no ATC delays. I assuming this statement was sarcasim?

WN with 4 gates, thats 40 flights daily!!



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineizbtmnhd From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10048 times:

Quoting n797mx (Reply 2):

Hahaha. This is funny. Come to IAD at 10 in the morning and wander around the C and D concourse. You'll think it should be Class G. It's called banks.


User currently offlinencflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 484 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10042 times:

I will tell you what's new in cle. Airfares, they are sky high outrageous. It used to be that PIT residents would make the two hour drive to CLE to save some serious change, Now it's completely reversed. I am flying To LGA from NE Ohio in a couple weeks, and if I had the time, which I don't, I'd literally save 50% driving to Erie and connecting back in CLE. I guess higher prices are good news for the carriers, but not great for us residents.

User currently offlineizbtmnhd From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10047 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 5):

If UA ever dehubs CLE and WN decides to expand there's not much room at CAK without building out. It makes sense for WN to keep their limited presence at the B concourse and see what happens. Also, if UA an WN walk out of CLE it would invite another carrier into the market in no time. It makes sense for WN to stay.

[Edited 2012-11-18 19:41:40]

User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6125 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10038 times:

Quoting izbtmnhd (Reply 6):

I don't doubt that. However, at present time CAK has plenty of room for expanded operations, unlike what the kid from Buffalo was saying.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5419 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10042 times:

Quoting joeman (Reply 1):
Medical Mart won't increase CLE O&D to a measurable amount.

Two premier companies, GE and Johnson Controls said they are setting up the equivalent of "national salesrooms" in the MM, which is exactly the reason it was initially proposed. JC said it's extremely difficult to take potential customers to a working hospital - that the CLE facility will work much better for them. Given the price of even trivial medical projects, the added cost of a plane ticket to CLE for a facilities preview will be insignificant.

If things work the way JC and GE are planning, they will boost traffic - not mega-growth, but a nice piece of high-end business.

Just me: the MM is going to be far more successful that people expect.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1555 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10038 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 10):
Just me: the MM is going to be far more successful that people expect.

Now if only they could find a better name for it.



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8234 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10038 times:

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 11):
Now if only they could find a better name for it.

The Michael R White Center for Health and Innovation?

Or whatever his middle initial is...



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5419 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10041 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 12):
The Michael R White Center for Health and Innovation?

Sounds like the Baltimore-Washington Thurgood Marshall International Airport. Letter-sized paper isn't big enough to hold the letterhead. And still people just call it BWI.

MedMart = short, punchy, memorable, and reasonably descriptive.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineHighflier92660 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 674 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10041 times:

There is just something about the word Cleveland that brings out Pavlovian reactions in some people. Cleveland, the city who's sports teams snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and who's vibrant nightlife make the Australian Outback look like Miami's South Beach by comparison. Yet I will resist the equally cliché rebuttal retorted by we thin-skinned folks that were born there. I will not mention the international corporate ties, the Cleveland Clinic or the cultural scene including the Cleveland Orchestra that can play a Respighi's The Pines of Rome with the best of 'em. Oh I just did.

As for CLE, that temporary parking garage built sometime in the early 70s still stands. It is south of the Sheraton and may appear crumbling but is entering its fourth decade of use. That is remarkable for a structure the Plain Dealer described as temporary.

I have never heard anything about the city of Cleveland purchasing the Sheraton Hopkins and tearing it down. That hotel has been on that property since the 1960s and has been through many phases and renovations. At one time the top floor of the Sheraton was the home of a nightclub called "The Final Approach" and is now an excellent executive floor of rooms to watch aircraft take-off and land.


User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10038 times:

The aiport is waiting for approval from the FAA to get a new customs/FIS among other improvements.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 715 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10038 times:

Quoting cle757 (Reply 15):
The aiport is waiting for approval from the FAA to get a new customs/FIS among other improvements.

That's interesting cle757...can't help but wonder when a push for a new customs/FIS began. Seriously glad to know that.

On a more bitter side, the last I heard of a push for that (by a.netters anyway) was to get one in place during the 1 and a half year of preparation for the 12 week CO CLE-CDG service.


User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 564 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10038 times:

Quoting cle757:
The aiport is waiting for approval from the FAA to get a new customs/FIS among other improvements.

That's great to hear. Two responses.

1. Why is FAA approval needed --- is it so they would pay for it or some other regulatory issue?

2. That's great for CLE. For LH, UA, BA or whomever, it makes the city a more attractive port of entry. CLE, IMO, could surely support service to LHR, FRA, AMS, MEX, and perhaps a few others. The economy, and UA's preference for EWR, killed CLE's LHR (and previously LGW) service. The FIS is probably the singlemost urgent need for CLE right now.

Quoting MasseyBrown:
Just me: the MM is going to be far more successful that people expect.

I agree here. Also, the MM was the impetus for the new convention center, which will definitely increase traffic to/from the city.

Also, the city is in the early stages of developing land on the SW section of BKL for office development--that may have the potential to increase demand at Burke for service some 5 or so years from now, beyond air taxi operations. It'd be great to get a scheduled carrier back in there--for at least for LGA, MDW, and DTW.


User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10040 times:

CO now UA has some deal with CLE to have right of resusal for BKL they get the chance to serve the route before BKL can be used by others...so if airline B wants to run BKL-LGA the UA gets first crack if they refuse then B can start BKL-LGA

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16861 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 10039 times:

My question is what affect will the energy boom in Northeast Ohio have on the Cleveland economy and airtravel, any?

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 17):
2. That's great for CLE. For LH, UA, BA or whomever, it makes the city a more attractive port of entry

While another trans-Atlantic flight would be nice, I think the FIS will mostly be handling flights to Cancun, Dominica Republic etc..

[Edited 2012-11-20 03:31:21]


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1038 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10039 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
My question is what affect will the energy boom in Northeast Ohio have on the Cleveland economy and airtravel, any?

Was anyone every able to verify the OKC flight was directly related to the energy shale boom?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
While another trans-Atlantic flight would be nice, I think the FIS will mostly be handling flights to Cancun, Dominica Republic etc..

Well, it at least takes the " you dont have a good FIS facility out of the excuse list". Once TATL rebounds in 2014, I'd guess there is some potential even if CLE has to waive fees or what not to entice someone to do so. Might be a good announcement in Oct 2013 when the MM opens for a 2014 start.

With the Sherwin Williams major acquisition in MEX, I wonder if that will be enough volume to finally see a daily direct flight vs. all via IAH. I know researched extensively under CO.


User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 564 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10037 times:

Quoting fun2fly:
With the Sherwin Williams major acquisition in MEX, I wonder if that will be enough volume to finally see a daily direct flight vs. all via IAH. I know researched extensively under CO.

A while back, AM had applied for and received operating authority on CLE-MEX. They kept this authority active for a few years, then finally let it lapse just recently, maybe around 2007. There's a lot of trade between Ohio (not sure what part) and Mexico; the Sherwin-Williams deal likely adds to the pot. Would be great to see a CLE-MEX.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5419 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10038 times:

I'm not sure how much, if anything, the Feds would put up for new customs and immigration, although they do pay for almost all runway and tower work. The last time CO was interested in FIS, the projected cost was $3-5 million. The current Master Plan shows a 2015-17 timeframe for some kind of Concourse C facility.

The airport's debt level jumped $50 million in 2011. Does anybody know what that went for? AirMall construction? The 2012 FAA numbers aren't out yet and the city doesn't release much useful data.

Edit: fun2, I'm glad you started this thread.

[Edited 2012-11-20 06:38:16]


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1038 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10038 times:

Interesting read...had not seen the mid parking facility hotel before.

http://www.clevelandairport.com/Doin...-Business/Project-Information.aspx


FIS "Immediate Term" 2016-2025

D Connector 2026+ (aka probably never)


User currently offlineHighflier92660 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 674 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10037 times:

The new Cleveland Hopkins hotel for the foreseeable future is under the category of a "wish list." This is a link from April of 2011.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011...ew_hotel-office_complex_one_o.html


25 iowaman : Nice additions to the CLE market. F9 generally offers some cheap connections to the west through DEN. Even though it's a small station I bet it will
26 MasseyBrown : One of Ricky Smith's goals has been to increase airport revenues from non-aeronautical sources. FAA CATS Reports for 2009-2011 say he's succeeding, bu
27 Flytravel : I'm surprised WN's website still doesn't associate CAK and CLE together. Many likely don't check fares to CAK. I think WN will keep and grow CLE and m
28 Flytravel : How about FL's CAK-LGA flight? Or, WN on CLE-BWI-LGA while BWI-LGA lasts. I've said it before but It'd be great if F9 could consider TTN-CLE-DEN, as
29 as739x : Many as in who? To now compete with UA and F9 again, why would they do that? They own CAK-DEN Not a chance! I have no idea why you think this. WN has
30 iowaman : Southwest does have a past in the CLE-MCO market. As recently as Spring of last year there was a Saturday only non-stop. Not sure how long it stuck a
31 MasseyBrown : WN used to fly to STL, too, and run 7x to BWI. I think they operated around 20 dailies ~ 10 years ago.
32 iowaman : Yep, CLE was around 20 daily for years. CLE-PHX was also operated Saturday only for a short time. LAS has also come and went many times with everythi
33 N766UA : That's not true at all. Up until recently they were up over 20 flights a day and had been since the '90s. 14/day is an all time low for WN at CLE.
34 greenair727 : I certainly don't. I support CLE as a hub. CAK actively tries to pull pax from CLE, thereby weakening it as hub--and thus weakening the entire region
35 Post contains images skycub : Yes....and that with FOUR gates.
36 N766UA : Yeah, it's a shame, they're not even close to half capacity at this point. PIT actively tries to pull pax from CLE too, haven't you seen the billboar
37 fun2fly : It is interesting to see what is going on with the NYC flight prices. When it was UA/AA, it was $1000 for midweek flights and $400-700 on weekends, b
38 greenair727 : Actually, I've never really flown out of PIT in lieu of CLE--its something I might do if I had the six hours (RT) (plus gas money) to lose. Instead,
39 Flytravel : WN can grow at CLE even while still keeping CLE a small station for them. HOU and MCO would link CLE to the new destination places they want pax to tr
40 MasseyBrown : As the airline industry devolves to four players, you aren't going to see the discount fares of prior years. The competition will be very gentle, aim
41 swacle : A pretty good breakdown of WN service at CLE was given above, but we did peak at 22 weekday departures in the 1999-2001 time frame with 8 MDW, 6 BWI,
42 PITrules : PIT is barely two hours from downtown Cleveland, and about 40 minutes closer than DTW.
43 joeman : and I'm driving when possible like so many others due to the exhorbitant CLE airfares vs. the value of a diminishing travel time savings between the
44 joeman : Agreed, I've driven from near CLE airport to Pittsburgh in approximately 2 hrs. several times
45 N766UA : Unless you live way out past Sandusky there's no reason PIT would take 6 hours round trip. Southwest suburbs to PIT is easily doable in an hour and 4
46 greenair727 : ^ok, point taken! PIT is not so far away--just shows that I haven't done it... But I'm sure gas + time + parking (assuming you take the train, taxi, o
47 Post contains images joeman : Nothing but the best for UA devotion, courtesy of CLE!!!
48 Highflier92660 : I couldn't agree more. In Delta's case the main connection in the afternoon for CLE- JFK passengers making early international flights out of JFK is
49 klwright69 : CO used to do this route, along with IAH-JFK. Both gone.
50 fun2fly : I'm surprised UA does not run 1x daily like DL to connect to LH on the TATL JV flights. What does AA run to JFK these days? On a different topic, why
51 as739x : It's in the same region last I checked. It's call airport competition. The economy in the Midwest and airlines realigning have weakened CLE has a hub
52 jetskipper : Lufthansa operates twice daily service to FRA and daily service to both MUC and DUS from ORD and EWR. There is no point in UA starting a CLE to JFK f
53 joeman : Please see reply #1 One person's simple comment does not equal the entire MEM/CVG/PIT population base nor that of CLE's for "blaming"
54 greenair727 : as739x---I wasn't 'blaming' anyone---just stating that CAK's policy undermines the strength of its own region.
55 fun2fly : At what point do we know if the CLE>SEA flight is happening or not for summer 2013? Headed that way and will hold off booking if it makes sense. I
56 usa330300 : They weren't non-revs. The ferried the aircraft with a working crew.
57 atct : As a former Pittsburgher I find it funny that ya'll would think of driving to PIT for cheaper fares. For 20 years it was the other way around. atct
58 greenair727 : What would be the impact, if any, of an AA-US merger on CLE, which now looks like it may become a reality, both in terms of the combined airline's ser
59 MasseyBrown : Near-term, I think a combination of the two would simply be additive. Medium-term, the survivor (called AA, I guess) might want to add CLE to its DCA
60 greenair727 : ^ Would the combined airline (if it happens) remain in OneWorld? Its interesting you mention LHR, I was trying to think of a way for BA to serve the r
61 MasseyBrown : One World is pretty much a sure thing for any future AA. The problem with BA serving CLE is its smallest transatlantic plane is loaded with 48 busines
62 fun2fly : Anyone know what kind of subsidy this was and the term of it? Assume landing fees were waived + $? On the AA/US side, we'd have MIA, DFW, JFK, LGA, O
63 greenair727 : Perhaps the AA club. Combined with US, they'd have more pax than DL-NW, no? If they'd want to draw away some business from UA, that may be a small pi
64 ncflyer : I suppose this is a closely guarded secret but does anyone have any info on how yields have changed at CLE. I just can't get over airfares, I have rel
65 MasseyBrown : Yields for Q2, 2012 in CLE and nearby cities CLE 23.7 cents/mile STL 22.4 MKE 17.1 CVG 30.09 BUF 18.7 DTW 21.32 PIT 20.9 I'm leaving out length of hau
66 flyguy89 : I believe it was some sort of revenue guarantee that could be tapped into if the flight's performance fell below a specified level/measure. I'd say A
67 MasseyBrown : AA is intriguing, especially since they once had a mini-hub in CLE in the 70's; but I'm sure those days are long forgotten in today's AA schedule sho
68 greenair727 : ^ That's interesting; I never knew that. So was CLE a major UA hub AND an AA mini hub at the same time? What years were the AA hub? If anything, CLE i
69 fun2fly : It's an interesting proposal...if you are the AA / OW sales person in CLE/Northeast Ohio, you basically have nothing to offer that is more appealing
70 greenair727 : If AA had a CLE-LHR, I'd abandon my UA loyalty in an instant for all trips to LHR. And I'd likely start looking at AA more for other routes as well wh
71 MasseyBrown : Not exactly ... 'hubs' (except for ATL) before deregulation were not as disciplined and omnidirectional as we think of them today. AA built up CLE in
72 Post contains images point2point : Actually, I think that CLE had a good location for connections going between upstate Pennsylvania/a lot of New York/most of New England into the Midwe
73 mbm3 : CO was working hard with CLE to get something done about the FIS facilities, including discussions to have NW move to Terminal A so they could move/a
74 MasseyBrown : Thanks. I thought the Feds covered all runway and tower costs, but maybe not. Wasn't a new FIS under C Concourse priced at $3-5 million? That might b
75 mbm3 : Well they also did a lot of improvement to Terminal C, so maybe some went there as well. I agree that a new FIS seems like a worthwhile investment, b
76 Coairman : I think UA out of CLE pretty much dominates European travel via UA's massive hubs via EWR, IAD and ORD only an hour flight away. CLE-JFK traffic is r
77 PITrules : 2 year revenue guarantee - $5 million the first year, $4 million the second year. Each year's guarantee was divided in two equal halves - a public (s
78 MasseyBrown : The trouble is a 757 can't fly CLE-FRA reliably - there would be a LOT of one-stop flights if they tried. Meanwhile UA is getting rid of their compar
79 greenair727 : Thanks, Massey, for that great bit of history. I have never flown into the US via CLE. Are you saying that once you clear INS/Customs, you exit the F
80 fun2fly : That's some expensive terrazzo. For CLE alone, 30 BF seats on a 214 seat 763 would be hard to fill unless UA routes premium traffic over CLE which th
81 EricR : - They aren't pulling out as everyone on a.net predicted. Here is one thing to keep in mind. UA is still very early in their integration process, poss
82 MasseyBrown : Hard to argue with anything you say. We've seen fans of PIT, CVG, and STL make the same arguments that the CLE proponents are making, but we know wha
83 Coairman : Totally agreed. Hub optimization has a long way to go. One example is the only way to get to FNT and ERI on UA is via CLE and the only way to get to
84 greenair727 : ^what does the new scope clause say (that would impact CLE)?
85 PITrules : I have a timetable for 1990 which shows scheduled and charter flights. CLE/DTW/PIT are shown in the charter section only.
86 mbm3 : Yes, the 763 is a challenge to fill but it my understanding that the cargo currently being trucked to other hubs would pay for the flight. No, the op
87 MasseyBrown : It provides for a large but limited number of 70 and 76 seat RJs, while encouraging UA to dump the 50 seaters. The allowed 70 and 76 seaters matches
88 fun2fly : Obviously, CLE isn't going to grow too much via its northeast Ohio population which means it needs more people to come to CLE. Not a lot of people ar
89 MasseyBrown : Never say never. If you look at current population estimates, the area is pretty stable over the last couple of years. I wouldn't be surprised if 201
90 greenair727 : 2x daily UA flights to BNA begin soon on 19 Dec. ERJ service, I think.
91 N766UA : If that's the case, why is BOS all ERJ's? Whoopdee doo, it used to be 100% mainline jets. The entirety of New England, BOS/MHT/PVD and to a lesser ex
92 fun2fly : When will CLE get the update United Club? Will it still be in the same location?
93 STT757 : Were the previous flights to London (LGW, LHR) and CDG receiving any local incentives? If not is that something the State , local Government would con
94 joeman : No. Maybe some guarantees of use by local companies at best. State and local gov have already bent over time and again for nothing but reduction from
95 MasseyBrown : My recollection is that when British Petroleum left Cleveland (a condition of the BP-Amoco merger and a mistaken concession to Amoco's mediocre manag
96 fun2fly : Heard on the radio this AM on the drive in, UA is cancelling 60% of their flights after noon today (12/26) due to 6-12" of snow/blizzard. Perfectly cl
97 Post contains images MasseyBrown : This probably has as much to do with weather and airports east of CLE as with CLE itself, which is generally very good at wx recovery. Speaking of the
98 Aquila3 : Slightly OT, what is now the best Airport to connect to Ohio (possibly South) from EU? In the past I have successfully used Cincinnati ( I believe dir
99 Antoniemey : Depends on what airline you prefer to fly, but, honestly, probably DTW.
100 N766UA : Boston, Detroit, or DC, probably. New York is awful for connections (or anything else for that matter), and CVG and CLE have very limited/no opportun
101 N766UA : Cleveland isn't the only hub in UA's system. Unfortunately, the weather impacted ORD, IAD, and NYC as well, not to mention the ripple effect from ear
102 flyguy89 : Depends on whether or not you're looking to drive, as you said you did before, or fly and to where in Ohio. DL still flies to CDG daily from CVG, so
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What's Going On In PIT - Part 13 posted Wed Jul 15 2009 20:25:15 by Kubus
What's Going On In PIT - Part 12 posted Wed Jun 3 2009 15:29:40 by NWADC9
What's Going On In PIT Part 9 posted Sat Feb 7 2009 19:00:53 by NWADC9
What's Going On In PIT Part 8 posted Tue Oct 7 2008 17:43:45 by NWADC9