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Study: 1/3 European Pilots Fell Asleep In Cockpit  
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1985 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1280 times:

I don't know how "serious" is considered the Bild.de in Germany, but apparently the study was made with a significant number of pilots ( 6.000 ), so at least the sample is good enough...
Having a 33 % of pilots sleeping in one of the most crowded skies of the world should be a good reason to worry !!!!

http://www.bild.de/reise/fluege/pilo...t-eingeschlafen-27244372.bild.html


Rgds.
G.


80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8872 posts, RR: 75
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1283 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Having a 33 % of pilots sleeping in one of the most crowded skies of the world should be a good reason to worry !!!!

I would not be surprised if 100% of pilots in 2 crew operations had a sleep during a duty, What I think this article is address is micro naps which is a form a subtle incapacitation.

Crews taking planned power naps during a shift is actually beneficial, unlike a lot of industries, the rosters are a form of interrupted shift work. It is not uncommon for consecutive days to have crew working at different times of the day/night.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1985 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1283 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):
I would not be surprised if 100% of pilots in 2 crew operations had a sleep during a duty, What I think this article is address is micro naps which is a form a subtle incapacitation.

Crews taking planned power naps during a shift is actually beneficial, unlike a lot of industries, the rosters are a form of interrupted shift work. It is not uncommon for consecutive days to have crew working at different times of the day/night.

I think there is nothing wrong with a micro nap to "reset" the mind if you are in the middle of a long flight, with nothing to worry at cruise level, and you ask to your cockpit partner to be fully aware while you take a rest. But in the article we have this story as an example of how dangerous can be the crew fatigue :
"During the approach for landing, I woke up suddenly, after my co-pilot called me - obviously not for the first time - and "invited" me to extend the flaps." This is not a desirable situation !!!

( It will be nice if someone fluent in German could insert a better translation of the article here )

Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineFabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1283 times:

Looks like they are talking about involuntarily dozing off due to fatigue. The pilot in question had a micro nap event on approach, after fourth flight in his 15 hour duty day. Not exactly surprising, unfortunately.

Some other numbers, 9/10 pilots say that they have been too fatigued during their work, 4/5 say they have made mistakes fue to fatigue.



The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
User currently offlineJimJupiter From Germany, joined Sep 2011, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1285 times:

Well, Bild is not the most reliable source. I think this is the original study they refer to:

http://www.eurocockpit.be/sites/defa...ter_on_pilot_fatigue_12_1107_f.pdf



One is born, one runs up bills, one dies.
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1985 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1283 times:

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 4):
I think this is the original study they refer to:

Many thanks for the link !!

I did a quick review of the numbers in the document, and definitely this is the original source.

And that is not good !! I would prefer to find out that this was just a piece of sensationalism from the Bild over being a serious study with very reliable procedures and methodology...     


Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8968 posts, RR: 76
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1283 times:
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Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 5):
nd that is not good !! I would prefer to find out that this was just a piece of sensationalism from the Bild over being a serious study with very reliable procedures and methodology... 

Well, BILD is for sure no reliable source, BUT there are studies out there who fight the problem of fatigue in flight decks. And there is a problem for sure.
I am a long haul pilot and I know how hard it can be to stay awake during some looong red eye flights.

The EASA wants to change the duty times again and make it even worse.

A website which tries to convince the EASA not to make it any worse:

http://flightdutytimes.eu/

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5174 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1283 times:

It is quite common on long haul flights with 2 man crews for them to have shifts In seat napping.

User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8968 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1283 times:
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Quoting anstar (Reply 7):
It is quite common on long haul flights with 2 man crews for them to have shifts In seat napping.

And it is even legal to do so. The German law allows us to take a short nap in the cockpit, of course with several precation measures.
I am glad that it is allowed as it helps a lot during some flights.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5174 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1283 times:

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 8):
And it is even legal to do so. The German law allows us to take a short nap in the cockpit, of course with several precation measures.
I am glad that it is allowed as it helps a lot during some flights.

Totally agree - and there are procedures in place to ensure it is safe.


User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2052 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1283 times:

1 in 3 is at least 25% too low. Almost every pilot I have worked with has had it happen at one time or another.

User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2629 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1281 times:

This is a symptom of accountants running airlines.
Just about every airline has just enough pilots to fill their roster. Accountants saw to the reserves being cut.
As a result, pilots work more often and don't get enough rest. It's only a matter of time before the next crash due to fatigue  



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User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1891 posts, RR: 27
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1281 times:

I really don't see an issue here. That's why briefings are done before the flight, so that both pilots can get acquainted and learn the usual procedures any of them might do in any given circumstance.

I think in the middle of a long flight, any of the two pilots can close their eyes to power charge their minds a bit and be in better shape for the arrival section of their leg... Sure, as long as the other pilot stays in full control of the situation without dozing off... This is, to do it if the other pilot isn't fatigued or feels like he will close his eyes for a second...



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4191 posts, RR: 37
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1281 times:

Quoting 797 (Reply 12):
I think in the middle of a long flight, any of the two pilots can close their eyes to power charge their minds a bit and be in better shape for the arrival section of their leg... Sure, as long as the other pilot stays in full control of the situation without dozing off... This is, to do it if the other pilot isn't fatigued or feels like he will close his eyes for a second...

You should tell this to the FAA...



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User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8872 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1281 times:

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 13):

You should tell this to the FAA...

I think everyone has been, NASA, NBAA, ICAO, ALPA etc etc....very unusual for them not to follow the science.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1795 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1281 times:
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Quoting garpd (Reply 11):
This is a symptom of accountants running airlines.

Yeah, safety limits are being used as productivity targets.


User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2052 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1281 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 14):
I think everyone has been, NASA, NBAA, ICAO, ALPA etc etc....very unusual for them not to follow the science.

The FAA usually only comes around after people die.


User currently offlineFabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1281 times:

Quoting 797 (Reply 12):
I really don't see an issue here.
Quoting 797 (Reply 12):
I think in the middle of a long flight, any of the two pilots can close their eyes to power charge their minds a bit and be in better shape for the arrival section of their leg...

You are missing the issue, this is not about voluntary, planned naps, but about involuntary dozing off.



The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8872 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1281 times:

Quoting silentbob (Reply 16):

They have, Buffalo.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
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