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Korean Aviation Thread #2  
User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2947 posts, RR: 53
Posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3912 times:
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The aviation scene in South Korea is often overlooked on airliners.net, perhaps in part due to language barriers that preclude many Korean aviation enthusiasts from participating in the forums.

There was one South Korean aviation master thread back in 2007, and there hasn't been one ever since. Here it is: South Korea Aviation Thread # 1 (by 747Dreamlifter Dec 17 2007 in Civil Aviation)

The past few months have been very exciting for Korean aviation, so I thought I'd give it a shot as well. If it ends up flopping, ah well.

Here are some topics that relate to recent happenings in Korean aviation:

- Korean Air's once strong fleet of A300s is now down to three, and the last ones will retire early next year. Korean Air has operated the type for 37 years and was Airbus' first customer outside of Europe.

- British Airways 6x weekly LHR-ICN service will commence on December 2nd.

- American Airlines has announced new service from DFW to ICN.

- Korean Air will launch a 3x weekly ICN-CMB-MLE service in March of next year.

- Korean Air is strongly rumored to launch ICN-LIM service next year. However, no aircraft in KE's fleet is capable of flying the route nonstop, and it is yet unknown as to which stopover point KE will use for the route.

- Korean Air will drop Melbourne service next spring. It is unclear whether this is a seasonal drop, but as it stands now KE is facing a shortage of wide body aircraft.

- Korean Air will go daily to DFW next may, which will result in a frequency of 14x per week between ICN and DFW.

- On certain days in January, Korean Air will offer up to 1,331 daily seats to LAX and 814 to JFK.

- Korean Air will upgauge its new Yangon service from a 737-800 to an A330-300, and increase frequency to daily from 4x weekly.

- Asiana Airlines plans to go daily to ORD (finally) next summer. Asiana has faced a chronic shortage of widebody aircraft recently.


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67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3913 times:

Korean aviation update would have been better as it would not involve the risk of flopping nor expectations of continuing on a regular basis, I dont know why people havent done this for their unsuccesful country related threads, Sri Lankan, North Korean, Armenian, Lebanese, Japanese, Chinese, Malaysian were some.

Hope your thread is succesful.

Any thing new on Korean air network expansion? what about KE Cargo routes? any new ones coming.


User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2947 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3915 times:
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Quoting 777way (Reply 1):
Korean aviation update would have been better as it would not involve the risk of flopping nor expectations of continuing on a regular basis, I dont know why people havent done this for their unsuccesful country related threads, Sri Lankan, North Korean, Armenian, Lebanese, Japanese, Chinese, Malaysian were some.

Good idea, point taken.

Quoting 777way (Reply 1):
Hope your thread is succesful.

Thanks!

Quoting 777way (Reply 1):
Any thing new on Korean air network expansion? what about KE Cargo routes? any new ones coming.

There have been rumors about a certain city in Northern California, but nothing has come to fruition yet.

Not sure about cargo routes, but KE is due to take delivery of a 748F next year. Hopefully that will free up some aircraft for expansion.



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlinesmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3916 times:

Quoting HOONS90 (Thread starter):
- Korean Air will drop Melbourne service next spring. It is unclear whether this is a seasonal drop, but as it stands now KE is facing a shortage of wide body aircraft.

As a Melbourne boy it is very sad to see this beautie disappear from our skies, along with the KE girls gliding through the terminal. I hope to see it return when KE have enough capacity. I would have thought MEL would have been a big enough market for a Korean airline. Obviously not.


User currently offlinechootie From Germany, joined May 2007, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3916 times:

I am still hoping for that OZ non-stop ICN-IAD!!!!!! wishful thinking but ......         


chootie
User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2947 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3917 times:
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Quoting smi0006 (Reply 3):
As a Melbourne boy it is very sad to see this beautie disappear from our skies, along with the KE girls gliding through the terminal. I hope to see it return when KE have enough capacity. I would have thought MEL would have been a big enough market for a Korean airline. Obviously not.

I am hoping to see it return as well. It's just that Korea-Australia traffic is very seasonal.

Quoting chootie (Reply 4):

I am still hoping for that OZ non-stop ICN-IAD!!!!!! wishful thinking but ......

Asiana has mentioned that it plans to add new destinations in the US in the near future, subject to aircraft procurement.

Not sure about IAD, but the IAH and PHL airport authorities have been in talks with Asiana for new service.



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlineTK1244 From Netherlands, joined May 2007, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3916 times:
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Congrats and good luck for this thread!!!

Quoting HOONS90 (Thread starter):
Korean Air's once strong fleet of A300s is now down to three, and the last ones will retire early next year.

Which aircraft types are used to replace the A300 flights?

Quoting HOONS90 (Thread starter):
Asiana has faced a chronic shortage of widebody aircraft recently.

Will the airline order new planes or will they (wet/dry) lease additional aircraft to cope with the shortage?

Also, how are the other airlines (Air Busan, Jin Air, Jeju Air, etc) doing?



"The future is in the skies. For any nation that cannot defend its skies will never be confident of its future." Atatürk
User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2947 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3914 times:
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Quoting TK1244 (Reply 6):
Congrats and good luck for this thread!!!

Thanks!

Quoting TK1244 (Reply 6):
Which aircraft types are used to replace the A300 flights?
KE started basing some 747-400s at Gimpo Airport (Seoul's regional airport) to replace flights previously operated by A300s. For the A300 routes that flew out of Busan and Jeju, it seems like most of the A300 flying has been replaced by a mix of 737-900s and A330-300s.

Quoting TK1244 (Reply 6):
Will the airline order new planes or will they (wet/dry) lease additional aircraft to cope with the shortage?

Asiana is expected to take (a much needed) delivery of a couple of 777-200ERs and A330-300s next year. For the longer term, they have 30 A350s on order.

Quoting TK1244 (Reply 6):
Also, how are the other airlines (Air Busan, Jin Air, Jeju Air, etc) doing?

Jeju Air has recently started flights to Guam, and Air Busan recently took delivery of an A320. They seem to be doing reasonably well, although they have recently started to face a lot more competition on their Japan routes from Peach and Air Asia Japan.

[Edited 2012-11-18 16:53:16]


The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3917 times:

Quoting HOONS90 (Thread starter):
- Korean Air will go daily to DFW next may, which will result in a frequency of 14x per week between ICN and DFW.
Quoting HOONS90 (Thread starter):
- American Airlines has announced new service from DFW to ICN.

I wonder how well this route will do. How's the loads with the current KE service? Obviously good enough to warrant daily service.


Also: Any updates on the DL and KE operations? Is this supposed to be a J.V. or something else? Will we see additional DL ops at ICN, or is it just in relation to KE's service?

Thanks for the thread! Look forward to some great reads!



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User currently offlineTK1244 From Netherlands, joined May 2007, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3914 times:
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Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 7):
KE started basing some 747-400s at Gimpo Airport

I did expected the 737 and A330 as replacement, but not the 747. Are the loads that good on these flights?

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 7):
Asiana is expected to take (a much needed) delivery of a couple of 777-200ERs and A330-300s next year. For the longer term, they have 30 A350s on order.

How many are on order? (According to Wikipedia only 1 77L and 2 A333)

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 7):
Jeju Air has recently started flights to Guam, and Air Busan recently took delivery of an A320. They seem to be doing reasonably well, although they have recently started to face a lot more competition on their Japan routes from Peach and Air Asia Japan.

Good to hear that they are doing well.

I noticed that Korean Air has some Bombardier CS300 on order. At the moment, the smallest plane used in Korea are the 737 and A320 planes. Jeju Air retired its Bombardier Q-Series turboprops and Yeongnam Air operating a single Fokker 100 regional jet went bankrupt. Why aren't there regional props or jets used in Korea and could Korean Air make a success of the Bombardier C-series?



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User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8643 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3916 times:

Has anyone heard of a Korean Air A330 that had a very heavy landing into ICN, I understand the aircraft was operating BNE-ICN flight around 2-3 months ago ?


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User currently offlineHeeseokKoo From South Korea, joined Jan 2005, 612 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3914 times:

I think another big news is Jin air's Okinawa entrance next month. It used to be Asiana's territory since 1992, but KE is about to invade. Asiana and KE has been splitting pies and enjoying super-high fare. For example,
Asiana's territory: Okinawa, Sendai, Saipan
KE's pie: Sapporo, Guam
Now multiple LCCs are shaking up all those monopoly cash cows, thankfully.

TG wants to add BKK-ICN-LAX frequency (currently 4/w and that's maximum allowed) but Korean government doesn't permit additional 5th freedom. Thailand is threatening that they may reduce allowed number of airlines into Thailand, but we'll see where it goes. TG is doing well on ICN-LAX.

EK wants to add 2nd DXB-ICN (it's been a while), but also blocked by Korean government which heavily lobbied by KE.

Peach, Air Asia Japan, and many LCCs from Philippine and Thailand are approaching Korean market, and Air Asia will increase to 11/w (from 1 daily) next summer. However, there are so many news articles about how bad foreign LCCs are and what should a traveler prepare when taking a foreign LCC, and it's not really cheap, etc. These airlines will face some of these problems until stabilize all.

Quoting HOONS90 (Thread starter):
- Asiana Airlines plans to go daily to ORD (finally) next summer. Asiana has faced a chronic shortage of widebody aircraft recently.

I wouldn't believe this news yet. Asiana loaded and scrapped this plan this year. I guess codesharing with UA should precede. Why UA won't codeshare Asiana's ORD-ICN anyway?

Quoting TK1244 (Reply 6):
Also, how are the other airlines (Air Busan, Jin Air, Jeju Air, etc) doing?

Air Busan and Jin Air are doing fine as they belong to the established airlines. All others began to earn money recently, and the only troublesome airline is T-way which has been in M&A market for more than a year. Tiger and Air Asia both tried to invest on T-way, but KE+OZ+Jeju air all lobbied very well and blocked successfully.

Quoting TK1244 (Reply 9):
How many are on order? (According to Wikipedia only 1 77L and 2 A333)

I think Asiana will add 1 772 and 1 333 in 2013 along with a few 321. KE, in the meantime, plans 2 380 (#7 and #8), 2 77W, 2 332, 1 748F, and a few 738, in 2013. Plans may change and even wikipedia is not reliable because Asiana leases a lot recently.


User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2947 posts, RR: 53
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3914 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
I wonder how well this route will do. How's the loads with the current KE service? Obviously good enough to warrant daily service.

Unfortunately I don't have any load factor information for that route. Hopefully our resident analysts will be able to provide more information.

It is expected that KE will carry the bulk of the leisure traffic and AA will handle the majority of the business traffic.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
Also: Any updates on the DL and KE operations? Is this supposed to be a J.V. or something else? Will we see additional DL ops at ICN, or is it just in relation to KE's service?

The announcement was made very recently, so there aren't enough details about it yet. I would assume it's a joint venture since Korean Air and Delta already have anti-trust immunity.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
Thanks for the thread! Look forward to some great reads!

Thanks for reading  
Quoting TK1244 (Reply 9):
I did expected the 737 and A330 as replacement, but not the 747. Are the loads that good on these flights?

Not too sure about the loads, but without the A300s on the Gimpo-Jeju route, KE will be short on capacity for that route. Gimpo-Jeju is the world's busiest air route with 9.9 million passengers annually.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/05/daily-chart-8

Quoting TK1244 (Reply 9):
How many are on order? (According to Wikipedia only 1 77L and 2 A333)

Looks like that's it for next year. The A380s will arrive in two years. That should free up some 777s and allow the last 744s to be retired.

Quoting TK1244 (Reply 9):
Why aren't there regional props or jets used in Korea and could Korean Air make a success of the Bombardier C-series?

KE did have F-28s in the distant past that served smaller regional airports, but the proliferation of high speed rail and better ground transport infrastructure made those routes unviable. KE and OZ already have big 737 and 320 fleets respectively that are used very flexibly on both domestic and short haul international flights. Keeping a small, separate fleet of RJs or props would be unviable unless KE contracted out some of their flying.

The granddaddy of all domestic routes in Korea would be Gimpo-Jeju. There's around 95-105 flights a day each way between those cities. Capacity is key on this route and the proliferation of RJs would cause havoc. There's departures every 10-15 minutes on various airlines with 737s and even A330s and 747s.

There's one or two B1900D operators in Korea running scheduled services to Tsushima island in Japan.

Korean Air ordered the larger CS300 series which should serve them well to secondary cities in Japan and China, as well as some trunk domestic routes.

Quoting zeke (Reply 10):

Has anyone heard of a Korean Air A330 that had a very heavy landing into ICN, I understand the aircraft was operating BNE-ICN flight around 2-3 months ago ?

Haven't heard of it, but all KE long haul A330s were in revenue service this month, so any damage incurred must have been fixed by now.



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User currently offlinepuercaeli From South Korea, joined Sep 2008, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3916 times:

Thanks for reactivating this thread. Hoping for thread like this..

My question is why did get rid of all 77W from LAX ICN line for Jan? Was this just in anticipation that they will be introducing second A380?

And whilst on topic of VLA what is KE's plan for 744 retirement? With the newest 744 being leased to Kr government age of youngest 744 is 15 and many approaching 20years mark. How long will we see them flying for?


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7321 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3917 times:

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 5):
Not sure about IAD, but the IAH and PHL airport authorities have been in talks with Asiana for new service.

I know the city of Houston sent a delegation to Seoul to ask for service. I read an article where one of the members said something to the effect of "If Dallas has service to Korea, then we should too!". Not a very good argument, but thats a very typical attitude of many Houstonians.

Looking at O&D data, IAH-ICN is not a particularly large market and not much larger than AUS-ICN, so it would depend on connections beyond ICN and IAH. The IAH based market could no doubt help fill the plane with traffic to China, Vietnam, and MNL, but I dont know what purpose the IAH hub serves that cant already be attained elsewhere.

Time will tell if they are successful.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
I wonder how well this route will do. How's the loads with the current KE service? Obviously good enough to warrant daily service.

During the Spring, Summer, and Fall, DFW-ICN has loads in the 80's.

That said, I dont know if 2x daily is sustainable for DFW-ICN, but it might be. AA runs 2x daily on DFW-NRT and DFW-ICN is a much larger local market. Plus I think KE and AA are going after too different audiences. KE is more popular with Asia based traffic and DFW's Asian ethnic community. AA is going to be more targeted towards American based business traffic.



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User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3915 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 14):
During the Spring, Summer, and Fall, DFW-ICN has loads in the 80's.

I see, thanks.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 14):

That said, I dont know if 2x daily is sustainable for DFW-ICN, but it might be. AA runs 2x daily on DFW-NRT and DFW-ICN is a much larger local market. P

Yeah we will definitely have to wait and see.


Does this thread pertain to JS/DPRK as well?   

Does JS have any more 204s on order?



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User currently offlineHeeseokKoo From South Korea, joined Jan 2005, 612 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3915 times:

Quoting puercaeli (Reply 13):
And whilst on topic of VLA what is KE's plan for 744 retirement? With the newest 744 being leased to Kr government age of youngest 744 is 15 and many approaching 20years mark. How long will we see them flying for?

Out of 16 (15?) KE 744, 3 is being retired this year (not sure exact number, though), and others will follow once 380, 77W and 748i arrive. Thus, we will see 744 until at least 2015/16. KE recently added more Y and reduced C on 3 744 for lower yield routes (MXP, FCO, KUL, GUM). KE is also retiring 744 BCF and replace them by 748 F.


User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2947 posts, RR: 53
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3914 times:
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Quoting puercaeli (Reply 13):
My question is why did get rid of all 77W from LAX ICN line for Jan? Was this just in anticipation that they will be introducing second A380?

I think KE61/62 will still be a 77W.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 14):
I know the city of Houston sent a delegation to Seoul to ask for service. I read an article where one of the members said something to the effect of "If Dallas has service to Korea, then we should too!". Not a very good argument, but thats a very typical attitude of many Houstonians.

Rumors of IAH-ICN go as far back as 2005. With CO's defection to Star and subsequent merger with UA, it's far less likely now.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 15):
Does this thread pertain to JS/DPRK as well?

I guess so, although I'm no expert.

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 11):
I think another big news is Jin air's Okinawa entrance next month. It used to be Asiana's territory since 1992, but KE is about to invade. Asiana and KE has been splitting pies and enjoying super-high fare. For example,
Asiana's territory: Okinawa, Sendai, Saipan
KE's pie: Sapporo, Guam
Now multiple LCCs are shaking up all those monopoly cash cows, thankfully.

Asiana is also getting VVO.

Maybe KE should get CTU, CKG, UUS while OZ should get ULN, CTS and WUH.

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 11):
TG wants to add BKK-ICN-LAX frequency (currently 4/w and that's maximum allowed) but Korean government doesn't permit additional 5th freedom. Thailand is threatening that they may reduce allowed number of airlines into Thailand, but we'll see where it goes. TG is doing well on ICN-LAX.

I'm sick of KE and OZ charging astronomical fares from North America. Really hope that the Korean government will grant TG more frequencies.

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 11):
EK wants to add 2nd DXB-ICN (it's been a while), but also blocked by Korean government which heavily lobbied by KE.

Hopefully this won't escalate to what happened between the UAE and Canada. Did EK and KE stop codesharing recently?

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 11):
I wouldn't believe this news yet. Asiana loaded and scrapped this plan this year. I guess codesharing with UA should precede. Why UA won't codeshare Asiana's ORD-ICN anyway?
UA or AA ORD-ICN would be awesome, but sadly I doubt it will ever become reality.

I'd also like to see EWR-ICN on UA.

[Edited 2012-11-18 20:22:27]


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User currently offlinewinglets747 From Australia, joined Mar 2007, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3916 times:
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Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 11):
there are so many news articles about how bad foreign LCCs are and what should a traveler prepare when taking a foreign LCC, and it's not really cheap, etc. These airlines will face some of these problems until stabilize all.

Could you list some of those articles? Not doubting you - just interested to read them.



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User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8643 posts, RR: 75
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3915 times:

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 12):
Haven't heard of it, but all KE long haul A330s were in revenue service this month, so any damage incurred must have been fixed by now.

Does BNE only get long haul A330s ? Seen different ones down there as well as the odd 777. The sort of hard landing I hear of being reported would probably have required a landing gear change.



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User currently offlinepuercaeli From South Korea, joined Sep 2008, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3915 times:

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 16):

Thank you for the info!

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 3):

Surprisee that MEL traffic dried up.. I guess even when SYD gets 772 in off seasons it musr be difficult for the other routes. I think SYD route is largely students driven seeing that peak is around Aus summer holiday time no?


User currently offlineSPIM2EDDN From Germany, joined Mar 2008, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3914 times:

Quoting HOONS90 (Thread starter):
- Korean Air is strongly rumored to launch ICN-LIM service next year. However, no aircraft in KE's fleet is capable of flying the route nonstop, and it is yet unknown as to which stopover point KE will use for the route.



That is right, KE already has cargo operations at LIM and a couple of days ago an airline representative in Lima told a local newspaper the ICN-LIM service could start between March and June 2013. The final decision regarding frequencies, equipment and stop-over would be made in December.

The Korea-Peru bilateral grants Korean airlines 5th freedom rights for the following cities: ATL, MEX, LAX, JFK, SFO and SEA.

In my opinion if this ever happens it would probably be via LAX...


User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2910 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3914 times:

Hello from the country across the Korea Strait.

Any news on when KE will take delivery of their 1st 748i?

Any news of when the last few Asiana 763s are to go? They are getting up there in age.

Starting winter schedule KE has added a fourth daily ICN-FUK. The aircraft RONs at FUK.
It would be nice to see GMP-FUK added in the near future.

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 11):
I think Asiana will add 1 772

So weird that any airline, with exception of NH's new domestic 772ERs, that an airline is taking delivery of 772s.
I suppose it would be even odder to have a few GE-powered 777s, since OZ has only PW-powered ones.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3916 times:

Is KE still operating wide bodies to Vladivostok 772, A330, 747, what was the reason for this big upgrade of capacity from 737

User currently offlineHeeseokKoo From South Korea, joined Jan 2005, 612 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3913 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 23):
Is KE still operating wide bodies to Vladivostok 772, A330, 747, what was the reason for this big upgrade of capacity from 737

From the recent aviation talk, May 2012, Korea-VVO is fully opened and KE, all of a sudden, increased capacity before other airline enters the market. Asiana is about to launch this route (if not already) and some of LCC may join soon. KE is using 739 this month but 333 next month.

(I'll try to answer other questions soon..)


User currently offlineTK1244 From Netherlands, joined May 2007, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4019 times:
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HeeseokKoo and HOONS90, thank you both for your reply and explaining!

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 12):
Not too sure about the loads, but without the A300s on the Gimpo-Jeju route, KE will be short on capacity for that route. Gimpo-Jeju is the world's busiest air route with 9.9 million passengers annually.

Are the 747s only used on Gimpo-Jeju route? Or are other regional/domestic flights operated with them?



"The future is in the skies. For any nation that cannot defend its skies will never be confident of its future." Atatürk
User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2947 posts, RR: 53
Reply 26, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4026 times:
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Quoting carpethead (Reply 22):
Hello from the country across the Korea Strait.

Hi, thanks for checking the thread out!

Quoting carpethead (Reply 22):
Any news on when KE will take delivery of their 1st 748i?

From what I've heard the delivery dates are still being finalized, and it's expected sometime in 2014.

Quoting carpethead (Reply 22):
Any news of when the last few Asiana 763s are to go? They are getting up there in age.

There has been no word about their retirement, but recent A330 deliveries have been used for either expansion or displacing 772s from shorter routes, so I don't see the 767s leaving anytime before the A350s arrive unless Asiana wants to maintain capacity by increasing frequencies with A321s.

Asiana's 767 fleet has remained at the same size since 2005, and a few years ago they had the J cabin refitted with angled lie flat seats.

Quoting carpethead (Reply 22):
It would be nice to see GMP-FUK added in the near future.

That would be awesome. Bilateral agreements permitting, I can see Jeju Air (at the very least) opening up that route.
PUS-HND would be great as well.

Quoting SPIM2EDDN (Reply 21):
In my opinion if this ever happens it would probably be via LAX...

Agreed. My guess would be a 3x weekly 332 or 772 via LAX.

Quoting TK1244 (Reply 25):
Are the 747s only used on Gimpo-Jeju route? Or are other regional/domestic flights operated with them?

After the last A300 leaves by the end of January, they will operate on the following routes:

Gimpo-Tokyo Haneda 3x daily
Gimpo-Osaka Kansai 2x daily
Gimpo-Beijing 1x daily

Two 744s are based at Gimpo at the moment, HL7489 and HL7493.



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User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2947 posts, RR: 53
Reply 27, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4128 times:
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Quoting zeke (Reply 19):
Does BNE only get long haul A330s ? Seen different ones down there as well as the odd 777. The sort of hard landing I hear of being reported would probably have required a landing gear change.

I'm not sure if the A330-322s have the range to operate to BNE nonstop. Usually it's operated by the A330-323X delivered in the early 2000s: HL7553, 7554, 7584, 7585, 7586, 7587, 7701, 7702, 7709, 7710 and 7720.



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2910 posts, RR: 3
Reply 28, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4119 times:

HOONS90 thanks for the replies.
The Japanese Aviation thread died a long time ago and nobody is going to rejuvenate it, so hopefully this will do better.
There's just far and few in between members in the Far East region.


It still amazes me that JL & NH carry so little traffic between the two countries. Granted NH & JL would never fly from ICN to any provincial city but NH has just one lone flight from NRT & KIX.
From the Japanese side, the LCCs are about the only chance in this market.

It amazes me that just ten years ago, FUK-ICN only had four daily flights. KE with two, OZ one, & JL one.
Now, we have four operated by KE alone, OZ with three, TW two, and 7C one. All by Korean carriers to boot. I don't know too many semi-major int'l route that is dominated by just one country.


User currently offlineRAGAZZO777 From Uruguay, joined Jul 2010, 579 posts, RR: 1
Reply 29, posted (1 year 5 months 9 hours ago) and read 4096 times:

Quoting HOONS90 (Thread starter):
Korean Air is strongly rumored to launch ICN-LIM service next year. However, no aircraft in KE's fleet is capable of flying the route nonstop, and it is yet unknown as to which stopover point KE will use for the route.
Quoting SPIM2EDDN (Reply 21):
The Korea-Peru bilateral grants Korean airlines 5th freedom rights for the following cities: ATL, MEX, LAX, JFK, SFO and SEA. In my opinion if this ever happens it would probably be via LAX...

Hey guys. Seems like Los Angeles will be the stopover point used for the new flights between Seoul and Lima according to Korean Air's COO. He's also confirmed in a recent interview that "KE aims to launch service to Lima in May 2013".

IMO, KE will deploy the A332 on this new route to South America. Can't wait to see KE airplanes at LIM.  


Source: http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...-to-los-angeles-and-new-york-89119



JESÚS, TE AMO !!
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7321 posts, RR: 24
Reply 30, posted (1 year 5 months 8 hours ago) and read 4082 times:

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 29):
KE aims to launch service to Lima in May 2013".

I highly doubt it will launch that soon unless they get a schedule out for it.

From the time we get a schedule, it usually takes about 6 months until launch.



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User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2088 posts, RR: 15
Reply 31, posted (1 year 5 months 8 hours ago) and read 4084 times:

Quoting HOONS90 (Thread starter):
- Korean Air will go daily to DFW next may, which will result in a frequency of 14x per week between ICN and DFW.

Is this summer seasonal or year-round?

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 17):
UA or AA ORD-ICN would be awesome, but sadly I doubt it will ever become reality.

I don't think it will.

Quoting carpethead (Reply 28):
It still amazes me that JL & NH carry so little traffic between the two countries. Granted NH & JL would never fly from ICN to any provincial city but NH has just one lone flight from NRT & KIX.
From the Japanese side, the LCCs are about the only chance in this market.

Yeah, it seems like the Korean carriers have more of this segment as opposed to the Japanese ones. I know a lot of it also has to do with the fact that the Tsunami effects are still lingering.



next flights: msp-phx-slc, msp-mdw, ord-sju, sju-dfw-ord, msp-dfw, dfw-phl, phl-msp, jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg
User currently offlineRAGAZZO777 From Uruguay, joined Jul 2010, 579 posts, RR: 1
Reply 32, posted (1 year 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 4074 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):
From the time we get a schedule, it usually takes about 6 months until launch.

Yeah, that's true. However, and as pointed out by SPIM2EDDN, an official announcement is expected in December, so that would leave about 6 months until the actual launch.

Quoting SPIM2EDDN (Reply 21):
an airline representative in Lima told a local newspaper the ICN-LIM service could start between March and June 2013. The final decision regarding frequencies, equipment and stop-over would be made in December.



JESÚS, TE AMO !!
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7321 posts, RR: 24
Reply 33, posted (1 year 5 months 5 hours ago) and read 4056 times:

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 32):
Yeah, that's true. However, and as pointed out by SPIM2EDDN, an official announcement is expected in December, so that would leave about 6 months until the actual launch.

Thats good. Ill be interested to see what the schedule looks like.



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User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5830 posts, RR: 5
Reply 34, posted (1 year 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 4032 times:
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Hi there from the Seattle area! Busan (or Pusan) is such a large Asian port city. Why is that there has been no attempt to fly US to PUS? Korean Government regulations?

User currently offlineHeeseokKoo From South Korea, joined Jan 2005, 612 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (1 year 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 4019 times:

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 17):
Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 11):
I think another big news is Jin air's Okinawa entrance next month. It used to be Asiana's territory since 1992, but KE is about to invade. Asiana and KE has been splitting pies and enjoying super-high fare. For example,
Asiana's territory: Okinawa, Sendai, Saipan
KE's pie: Sapporo, Guam

Asiana is also getting VVO.

Maybe KE should get CTU, CKG, UUS while OZ should get ULN, CTS and WUH.

When both carriers have operational right and there's enough demand for multiple carriers, but simply not opt to operate to protect other carrier's yield... that's what I meant as pie-splitting. Operational right is limited to many Chinese cities and ULN, (and VVO until earlier this year,) so it's kind of an external reason. Now with Jin's OKA entrance, things will change.

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 17):
Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 11):
EK wants to add 2nd DXB-ICN (it's been a while), but also blocked by Korean government which heavily lobbied by KE.

Hopefully this won't escalate to what happened between the UAE and Canada. Did EK and KE stop codesharing recently?

EK and KE are still doing codeshare, but KE doesn't want any more EK frequency. What a two-faced world.

Quoting winglets747 (Reply 18):
Could you list some of those articles? Not doubting you - just interested to read them.

Can you read Korean? Hope you can..   Some newspaper companies in Korea publish English version, but I don't know how to search those. I just found that they publish English version only for some articles.

Quoting puercaeli (Reply 20):
I think SYD route is largely students driven seeing that peak is around Aus summer holiday time no?

Used to be. Now due to expensive AUD, things are colder than once it was.

Quoting SPIM2EDDN (Reply 21):
The Korea-Peru bilateral grants Korean airlines 5th freedom rights for the following cities: ATL, MEX, LAX, JFK, SFO and SEA.

In my opinion if this ever happens it would probably be via LAX...

Yes, I hope there's no more debate about which city KE will fly via. It's always LAX. Last time when KE planned to resume GRU, there was a huge thread about stopping point in a.net, although KE's intention was always the same. It's fun to discuss, though.

Quoting carpethead (Reply 22):
Starting winter schedule KE has added a fourth daily ICN-FUK. The aircraft RONs at FUK.
It would be nice to see GMP-FUK added in the near future.

The 4th FUK flight is canceled for most of the winter season along with many other routes. Nowadays, KE even sends 737 to Narita from ICN. Hopefully things come back next spring.

GMP, just like Hongqiao and Songshan, opens for very limited routes. GMP's international terminal has only 5 gates and it's full multiple times a day. I'm not sure if they have any intention to open more routes or frequency in the near future. By the way, any Japanese carrier can operate 4 daily to GMP from either KIX or NGO. It's vacant, so I think Peach should consider grabbing them. Does Peach know this?

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 26):
Quoting carpethead (Reply 22):
Any news of when the last few Asiana 763s are to go? They are getting up there in age.

There has been no word about their retirement, but recent A330 deliveries have been used for either expansion or displacing 772s from shorter routes, so I don't see the 767s leaving anytime before the A350s arrive unless Asiana wants to maintain capacity by increasing frequencies with A321s.

Asiana's 767 fleet has remained at the same size since 2005, and a few years ago they had the J cabin refitted with angled lie flat seats.

PUS-HND would be great as well.

PUS-HND will happen if more Haneda slots are opened to Korean carriers. I'm not sure if it will happen in near future because Haneda tries to open longhaul routes using daytime slots, and then, short-hauls will be out of sight for a while.

Asiana currently has 7 767 fleets and one 76F, and these are all purchased. All leased 767s were left at around 2005 when several 772 and 333 were added. Whenever Asiana does fleet renewal, it's all about returning leased planes and keeping purchased ones. Similar story for 737 classics, many of which are now operated by Air Busan.

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 29):
Source: http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...89119

Very interesting article. And brand new. Thanks for sharing.


User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2947 posts, RR: 53
Reply 36, posted (1 year 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 4017 times:
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Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 34):
Hi there from the Seattle area! Busan (or Pusan) is such a large Asian port city. Why is that there has been no attempt to fly US to PUS? Korean Government regulations?

This has been the subject of much controversy for a while now among Busan residents. KE (and I believe OZ?) commenced flights from ICN to PUS and vice-versa that solely serve as feeders for their international flights out of ICN. This was regarded with much contention by many Busan-area residents that felt they were being neglected with KE's 'all roads lead to ICN' mentality. Perhaps that somewhat mirrors the sentiment of many Britons living outside of London that claim that British Airways should be renamed 'London Airways'.

The bottom line is that the maximization of profits should come first for any private company, and if KE or OZ don't see the addition of long haul flights out of PUS as beneficial in any way to that objective, it will not happen. Insofar as both airlines believe that a larger PUS operation will detract from their hubs at ICN, traffic will continue to be funneled through ICN. As for other airlines such as UA, perhaps they regard PUS as a market better served through codeshare agreements as it is too small of a market for it to be served efficiently with their own metal.

Northwest (and later Delta) served PUS from 2002 to May of this year, although this was just a connector to their NRT hub. Lufthansa is the only other non-Asian airline that has attempted service to PUS, and to date the only one that has succeeded in sustaining a continued presence there. However, that flight stops over at ICN. Korean news agencies have mentioned the possibility of a non-stop direct to Germany, but apparently there are operational constraints at PUS pertaining to runway lengths and steep terrain in the vicinity of the airport.

[Edited 2012-11-20 18:43:09]


The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlineHeeseokKoo From South Korea, joined Jan 2005, 612 posts, RR: 1
Reply 37, posted (1 year 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 4011 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 34):
Hi there from the Seattle area! Busan (or Pusan) is such a large Asian port city. Why is that there has been no attempt to fly US to PUS? Korean Government regulations?

In my youth, if I remember correctly, KE operated direct PUS-HNL one-way (the other way was via SEL, weird). I heard it from my grandma, so it might not be true. It might have been a charter. I'm searching but I can't find any info.  Sad Like BA concentrates all longhauls from LHR, KE and OZ are doing the same. It's better to concentrate all from ICN and offer multiple daily departures. There's no regulation, but there's no high yield nor that much demand yet at this moment. The only longhaul from PUS is LH's PUS-ICN-MUC for now.

[Edited 2012-11-20 18:43:45]

User currently offlineFly2yyz From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1030 posts, RR: 2
Reply 38, posted (1 year 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 4007 times:

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 29):
IMO, KE will deploy the A332 on this new route to South America. Can't wait to see KE airplanes at LIM.

How would they schedule this? I figure the current A332 that they have from Korea to the US is KE001/002 ICN-NRT-LAX. Could they maybe time it so they can capture LIM/GRU-Japan/Korea traffic?

KE001 ICN-NRT 1110 1325
KE001 NRT-LAX 1455 0745+1

KE002 LAX-NRT 1000 1520+1
KE002 NRT-ICN 1700 1945


User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2947 posts, RR: 53
Reply 39, posted (1 year 5 months 2 hours ago) and read 3994 times:
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Quoting carpethead (Reply 28):
It still amazes me that JL & NH carry so little traffic between the two countries. Granted NH & JL would never fly from ICN to any provincial city but NH has just one lone flight from NRT & KIX.
From the Japanese side, the LCCs are about the only chance in this market.

Up until 2005, JAL had the following flights to Korea:

JL951 NRT-ICN Daily 763/772/D10
JL953 NRT-ICN Daily 763
JL955 NRT-ICN Daily 747/77W
JL957 PUS-ICN Daily 763
JL961 KIX-ICN Daily 763 (MD-11 in 2004!)
JL963 KIX-ICN Daily 763
JL965 HIJ-ICN 3x weekly 763
JL967 KIX-PUS Daily 763
JL971 FUK-ICN Daily 763
JL983 NGO-ICN Daily 763
JL987 NGO-PUS 4x weekly 772
JL993 KMQ-ICN 4x weekly 763
JL8831 HND-GMP Daily 747/D10
JL8833 HND-GMP Daily 747/D10

Now they have the following:

JL091 HND-GMP Daily 763
JL093 HND-GMP Daily 763
JL095 HND-GMP Daily 763
JL951 NRT-ICN Daily 763
JL957 NRT-PUS Daily 73H
JL959 NRT-ICN Daily 763
JL969 NRT-PUS Daily 73H
JL971 KIX-GMP Daily 73H
JL973 KIX-GMP Daily 73H

Quite a drastic reduction especially considering they no longer send anything larger than a 767, but I guess that also has a lot to do with JAL's restructuring as well. They do seem to send their larger widebodies to China, though.



[Edited 2012-11-20 18:58:29]


The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2947 posts, RR: 53
Reply 40, posted (1 year 5 months 2 hours ago) and read 3976 times:
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Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 31):
Is this summer seasonal or year-round?

I don't think KE's winter schedule has been finalized yet, but I would be very surprised if daily service is sustained to DFW in the winter. KE tends to reduce capacity in the winter to other leisure-heavy North American destinations such as YYZ.

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 35):
GMP, just like Hongqiao and Songshan, opens for very limited routes. GMP's international terminal has only 5 gates and it's full multiple times a day. I'm not sure if they have any intention to open more routes or frequency in the near future. By the way, any Japanese carrier can operate 4 daily to GMP from either KIX or NGO. It's vacant, so I think Peach should consider grabbing them. Does Peach know this?

Do the international flights out of GMP make use of remote parking stands? I remember boarding a lot of flights (even long hauls) out of Gimpo that had passengers bussed to the stairs leading to the plane, but that was in the old days when Gimpo handled all of the domestic and international traffic out of Seoul, before ICN opened.

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 35):
The 4th FUK flight is canceled for most of the winter season along with many other routes. Nowadays, KE even sends 737 to Narita from ICN. Hopefully things come back next spring.

KE does seem to flip-flop on a lot of their plans, like the A380 to ATL.



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlinepuercaeli From South Korea, joined Sep 2008, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 5 months 1 hour ago) and read 3954 times:

KE seemed to be in so much love with 332HGW opening all these new long haul routes. Same seem to be the case for 737s on short/med haul.

Is 332HGW really that good? KE seemed to have wiped plan to acquire 787-8 for 332HGW.... Not a big fan of this decision personally though as i find 330 crampy but oh well...

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 37):

Do you know around what time was this? If it was pre 90s I have KE 20th anniversary book which 'may' have that info.


User currently offlineRAGAZZO777 From Uruguay, joined Jul 2010, 579 posts, RR: 1
Reply 42, posted (1 year 5 months ago) and read 3917 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 33):
Ill be interested to see what the schedule looks like.

Same here. In any case I'm sure it will be 3 flights per week, just like GRU. It will also be interesting to see LAN's reaction; they're currently operating 13 weekly flights between LAX and LIM on the 763 and they will soon deploy the 787 on the route.


.

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 35):
Yes, I hope there's no more debate about which city KE will fly via. It's always LAX. Last time when KE planned to resume GRU, there was a huge thread about stopping point in a.net, although KE's intention was always the same. It's fun to discuss, though.

Agreed. At this point we can be sure it will be via Los Angeles, from where they'll also be able to offer connections to Tokyo, which has a decent demand from Lima. Also, the O&D demand between Los Angeles and Lima is quite high, so KE will have no problem filling the plane on the LAX-LIM-LAX sector.


.

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 35):
Very interesting article. And brand new. Thanks for sharing.

You're welcome ! 


.

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 38):
How would they schedule this? I figure the current A332 that they have from Korea to the US is KE001/002 ICN-NRT-LAX. Could they maybe time it so they can capture LIM/GRU-Japan/Korea traffic?

I think that would be a smart move and something tells me that Korean Air is also after the Japan-Peru traffic.



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User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8643 posts, RR: 75
Reply 43, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3899 times:

CAPA had a bit of an update today on the Asiana fleet going forward in the next few years

"Asiana aims to significantly expand capacity on US routes after it becomes the sixth Asian and second South Korean carrier to operate the A380 in 2014. Asiana has six A380s on order and plans to initially deploy the super jumbo on long-haul routes to Los Angeles and New York as well as on some dense regional routes within north Asia such as Hong Kong, Shanghai Pudong and Tokyo Narita.

Frankfurt is the most likely destination for Asiana’s last batch of A380s, which will not be delivered until 2017. While the carrier does not plan to open any new routes with its A380s, the new type will free up Boeing 777-200ERs to launch new destinations in Europe and North America. Asiana’s long-haul network is currently limited to only six destinations in North America and three in western Europe, making it a much smaller long-haul carrier than local rival Korean Air (KAL). Asiana also has 30 A350s on order for delivery from 2017 but these aircraft are intended for regional routes within Asia-Pacific"



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User currently offlineHeeseokKoo From South Korea, joined Jan 2005, 612 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3861 times:

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 40):
Do the international flights out of GMP make use of remote parking stands?

I'm not sure but I saw ANA 777 standing at remote stand in the afternoon. ANA does quick-turn for all GMP flights, so I think bus boarding was made. I don't remember seeing any gate without a boarding bridge, though.

Edit: One of ANA flight arrives at 2pm and leaves at 4:40pm, so not likely a bus boarding, either.

Quoting puercaeli (Reply 41):
Do you know around what time was this? If it was pre 90s I have KE 20th anniversary book which 'may' have that info.

Mid 90s, I guess.

Quoting zeke (Reply 43):
CAPA had a bit of an update today on the Asiana fleet going forward in the next few years

Yes, so basically, for wide-body:
2013: 1 333 1 772
2014: 2 380 (and possibly 2 74F)
2015: 2 380
2016: ?
2017: 2 380 and start delivering 350
But Asiana will lease more 333 and 772 if it wants to.

In the meantime, Korean air's future delivery schedule for wide-body fleets are:
5 380: 1 in 2012/12, 2 in 2013/June-August timeframe, 2 in 2014
7 332: 2013-2015
6 77W: 2013-2014
5 748i: 2014-2016
10 789: 2016-
I don't have any details yet. KE usually announce yearly delivery-plan in February.


User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2910 posts, RR: 3
Reply 45, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3528 times:

Couple of questions regarding KE's fleet of 739s.
Where does KE fly their 739ERs?
Does KE plan to install winglets to the generic 739s?
There aren't too many 739 operators out there.

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 39):
Quite a drastic reduction especially considering they no longer send anything larger than a 767, but I guess that also has a lot to do with JAL's restructuring as well. They do seem to send their larger widebodies to China

Not really they send only send the 772s on two or three flights to China. The rest are 763s or 738s.
Still a big departure from the days when ICN saw gaggles of 747s & DC-10s.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 46, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3381 times:

I heard some Japanese LCCs are planning on expanding into Korea, any of them already fly there? I haven't any information on this.


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User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2910 posts, RR: 3
Reply 47, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3308 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 46):
I heard some Japanese LCCs are planning on expanding into Korea, any of them already fly there? I haven't any information on this.

AirAsia Japan flies daily between NRT-ICN. Peach flies three daily KIX-ICN. Jetstar Japan will soon fly from somewhere in Japan next year.


User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2947 posts, RR: 53
Reply 48, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3307 times:
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Quoting carpethead (Reply 45):
Where does KE fly their 739ERs?

This week I'm seeing 739ER assignments to the following routes from ICN:

Aomori, Changsha, Dalian, Haneda, Komatsu, Kota Kinabalu, Niigata, Phnom Penh, Siem Reap, Vladivostok, Weihai, Wuhan, Xiamen

Quoting carpethead (Reply 45):
Does KE plan to install winglets to the generic

At the moment, I don't believe so. The original 739s are very densely configured and are seldom used on flights that are longer than 2-3 hours. They're the domestic workhorse and as such it is unlikely that they will benefit from having winglets installed.

Quoting carpethead (Reply 45):
Not really they send only send the 772s on two or three flights to China. The rest are 763s or 738s.
Still a big departure from the days when ICN saw gaggles of 747s & DC-10s.

Indeed. 5 767s a day between the two cities is still decent though.

Quoting carpethead (Reply 47):
AirAsia Japan flies daily between NRT-ICN. Peach flies three daily KIX-ICN. Jetstar Japan will soon fly from somewhere in Japan next year.

Not sure if this counts, but StarFlyer also has a seasonal KKJ-PUS service.

AirAsia Japan will also start NRT-PUS as well.



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlineHeeseokKoo From South Korea, joined Jan 2005, 612 posts, RR: 1
Reply 49, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3185 times:

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 48):
At the moment, I don't believe so. The original 739s are very densely configured and are seldom used on flights that are longer than 2-3 hours. They're the domestic workhorse and as such it is unlikely that they will benefit from having winglets installed.

Regarding KE's dense 738, all dense 738s (162 seater) are now transferred to Jin, and leftovers are lower dense ones (147/138 seaters). 147 seater is mainly for domestic, and AVOD-equipped 138 seater is mainly for international flights.

739 non-ERs are all in dense version with 188 seats, and mainly used for domestic as well as international flights from PUS. A couple of ICN international flights are also this version. All 739ERs (low dense 159 seater) have AVOD and based at ICN.

Y class for the low dense 737s are spacious and equivalent to wide body fleets, however business class is old-fashioned. Since some of them are running for overnight flights, I guess the 12 J seats need to be switched to 8 fully flat seats.


User currently offlinesoftrally From Canada, joined Mar 2012, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3141 times:

AC announces YYZ-ICN. http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=601

Quote:
The launch on June 2 of a new Toronto-Seoul service operating three times a week, creating a fifth Asian destination from Air Canada's Toronto hub. The year-round service, operated with a Boeing 777-300ER aircraft, will complement existing Vancouver to Seoul service by providing daily departures from Canada to Seoul.



Flown on: 738, 744, 762/763, 772, 77W, 788, A306, A318/319/320/321, A332/333, E145, E190, CRJ700
User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2947 posts, RR: 53
Reply 51, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3044 times:
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BA's first scheduled flight to ICN is about to depart in 7 minutes as we speak. Wonder how the loads are.

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 49):

Thanks for the info!

Quoting softrally (Reply 50):
AC announces YYZ-ICN

Excellent news. Hopefully that will bring prices down.



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlineFreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2956 times:

Any possibilty of Korean carriers going into Athens? The number of Koreans visiting Greece has increased, for one thing. Also, no more SQ or Thai service to ATH......which means less connection options for Australians and Filipinos, who travel frequently between Greece and their home countries. Individually, the numbers are not enough to warrant a flight from either Australia, Philippines or Korea by themselves.....but the sum of all these, plus whatever other odd assortment of Asian traffic to Greece, might all add up. ICN might be able to clean up on this.

Incidentally, Air China is currently the only Asia to Greece flight.....but it is problematic for two reasons....(1) some nationalities could need visas to transit Beijing, and (2) It stops in MUC in both directions, making it a long, convoluted trip.


User currently offlineFly2yyz From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1030 posts, RR: 2
Reply 53, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2909 times:

I think KE might find it hard to compete with the ME3 and also its a bit of a side track to go to ICN then to OZ/NZ isnt it?

User currently offlineHeeseokKoo From South Korea, joined Jan 2005, 612 posts, RR: 1
Reply 54, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2849 times:

https://www.ana.co.jp/eng/aboutana/press/2012/index_121203-2.html

ANA suspends NRT-ICN from Mar 31, 2013. First victim after LCCs' invasion on Korea-Japan routes. I guess and I hope ANA will eventually adjust its ICN-KIX and ICN-NGO to GMP airport, ending its operation at ICN.

Quoting softrally (Reply 50):
AC announces YYZ-ICN. http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index...m=601

It's a bit tough season for KE. AA launches next year, BA just resumed, and now AC bugs KE.


User currently onlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2782 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2843 times:

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 53):
I think KE might find it hard to compete with the ME3 and also its a bit of a side track to go to ICN then to OZ/NZ isnt it?

Given that the ME3 have the Australia-Europe routes well and truly covered, I struggle to see how KE would go after a ATH service as the yields are bound to be less than great.

The ME3 have huge traction already on ATH flights with the VFR pax market, especially EK but EY and QR are making moves in that market too. MEL having the largest Greek population outside of Greece helps to generate good transfer traffic for them on their ATH services, but they just work that in well with their network options. They don't have to rely heavily on one market to fill planes, whereas the same wouldn't be so easy for KE.


User currently offlineFreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2752 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 55):
Given that the ME3 have the Australia-Europe routes well and truly covered, I struggle to see how KE would go after a ATH service as the yields are bound to be less than great.

The ME3 have huge traction already on ATH flights with the VFR pax market, especially EK but EY and QR are making moves in that market too. MEL having the largest Greek population outside of Greece helps to generate good transfer traffic for them on their ATH services, but they just work that in well with their network options. They don't have to rely heavily on one market to fill planes, whereas the same wouldn't be so easy for KE.

Yes, the Australians, in the years since OA and QF stopped service between ATH and SYD/MEL, have indeed gravitated to the Middle East carriers. But then you still have the Filipinos, too. There are about 75,000 Filipinos living in Greece, and during the past year, and two of key flights they used for connections between MNL and ATH-----SQ and TG----were dropped recently.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the coming year.........how exactly will all these people be absorbed, onto which routes?? In theory, the answer for Athens would be a new flight from an Asian hub to replace the two that were dropped........or Emirates(or another Middle East carrier) increasing capacity out of DXB, etc.....


User currently offlineFly2yyz From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1030 posts, RR: 2
Reply 57, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2730 times:

Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 56):
There are about 75,000 Filipinos living in Greece, and during the past year, and two of key flights they used for connections between MNL and ATH-----SQ and TG----were dropped recently.

Socioeconomically, the majority of the Filipinos in Greece work in domestic fields thus not being a group that would help drive yields for KE for instance or in the past with SQ or TG -- both which had good connections to Australia and New Zealand. I think KE could better use its resources than on ATH as there has not really been a historical economic connection between the two as well.


User currently offlineFreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2719 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 55):
I struggle to see how KE would go after a ATH service as the yields are bound to be less than great.

Just got the connction statistics, from another thread, with Turkish Airlines' statistics.......for the onward connections in Asian markets, from their respective Istanbul flights.........some interesting stuff.....

In Beijing, Odessa is the #1 connection market off the PEK-IST trip..........ATH is #4
Hong Kong-----ATH is #3
Narita------------ATH is #4

This may surprise most people, but the connection city with the most passengers on ICN-IST on TK happens to be ATHENS!!


User currently offlineFly2yyz From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1030 posts, RR: 2
Reply 59, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2702 times:

Awesome wow! Well go figure where can we find the tread for the TK stats?

User currently offlineFreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2688 times:

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 59):
Awesome wow! Well go figure where can we find the tread for the TK stats?

Here it is....

Turkish Aviation December 2012 (by TK787 Nov 30 2012 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 61, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2687 times:

Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 58):
This may surprise most people, but the connection city with the most passengers on ICN-IST on TK happens to be ATHENS!!

Yes ATH might be the #1 beyond market on TK's ICN flight, but its still only about 20-pax per day.

A longhaul can easily have 30-40 connection markets onboard to help keep things in perspective.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2683 times:

So, with the combination of being #4 connection in PEK/NRT, #3 in HKG, and #1 in ICN, that changes the whole perspective on how ICN-ATH will look, in theory. And if there is a nonstop, you will obviously get more Koreans on the plane than you would on connections, obviously. As for the Chinese passengers, you still have to make the stop in MUC if you fly Air China. So quicker to connect via ICN than to go all the way to MUC and backtrack. Not much of a difference for PEK-ATH locals, but for HKG, etc., it's still quicker transiting ICN.

Then add the Filipinos and other Pacific connections on top of this........


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 63, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2662 times:

Market size for ICN-ATH is 14,086 annual passengers each way. Not very large.

Compare that to the large European capitals or places like Frankfurt which generate 100,000 - 200,000 enplanements each way.

Athens is down the list with places like Stockholm, Venice, Dusseldorf, Geneva, Manchester etc..



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 64, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2612 times:

PIA 772ER is in Seoul today having operated a VIP flight for Pakistani president, previous visits to the city in the last decade or more have used A310, this was also the first ever VIP flight by the airlines 777 fleet.

User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 65, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2455 times:

CSA starting twice weekly PRG-ICN from June with A333.

A Qatar Airways 773ER flight from ICN was diverted to Karachi when a woman went into labour and gave birth onboard, both were shifted to a local hospital dont know nationality of the passenger.


User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2947 posts, RR: 53
Reply 66, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2423 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting 777way (Reply 65):
CSA starting twice weekly PRG-ICN from June with A333.

Surprise of the year!

Quoting 777way (Reply 65):
A Qatar Airways 773ER flight from ICN was diverted to Karachi when a woman went into labour and gave birth onboard, both were shifted to a local hospital dont know nationality of the passenger.

Hope that both are doing fine.

Quoting 777way (Reply 64):
PIA 772ER is in Seoul today having operated a VIP flight for Pakistani president, previous visits to the city in the last decade or more have used A310, this was also the first ever VIP flight by the airlines 777 fleet.

Did PIA ever plan to serve Seoul on a regular basis? I know that Shaheen Air officials were in talks with the ICN airport authority at the routes conference a couple of years ago, but I guess nothing really came out of it.



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 67, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2385 times:

Yes PIA wanted to serv Seoul in the 90s and then again around 2005 but nothing came about, its still part of their future routes I'm sure.

Sri Lankan Airlines are also planning ICN from next year, maybe as late as winter if not earlier.


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